Re: [MBZ] 1995 E300D Odessy/Mitch
Mitch, Maybe me? My '95 E300 had a failed vacuum pump when I bought it, and I was very concerned about bearings dumped into engine, but it had the upgraded pump so nothing dumped. Took me over a year to get that all sorted: new vacuum pump, injection pump timer, rebuilt all the delivery valves, injectors serviced, and then once she was road worthy, I found the suspension was in need of total rebuild. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD '95 E300 On April 19, 2015 11:04:47 PM EDT, Mitch Haley mi...@mitchellhaley.com wrote: Somebody parked a 606 engined car for many months while waiting for parts after it ate the vac pump bearings, I'm pretty sure of that. Guess I remembered the name wrong. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1995 E300D Odessy/Mitch
Mitch, just getting to this now after plowing through several days of digests. I'd need to go through the archives myself, but it may have been an 87 300sdl that I replaced the vacuum pump on. I've never owned a car with the om606 motor, only 617, 602 and 603 cars. But I do have to commend your memory of such a minute detail! Tony Wirtel From: Mitch Haley mi...@mitchellhaley.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1995 E300D Odessy Message-ID: 552efa19.6030...@mitchellhaley.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Dave wrote: Yes, the ball bearings failed and all of the balls and remainder of the cages dropped into the chain. I seem to recall reading in these lists, about ten years ago, that this was fairly common in early OM606 engines. Didn't the exact same thing happen to Tony -- Tony Wirtel mobile i3 +1 610.551.5923 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1995 E300D Odessy/Mitch
Tony Wirtel wrote: Mitch, just getting to this now after plowing through several days of digests. I'd need to go through the archives myself, but it may have been an 87 300sdl that I replaced the vacuum pump on. I've never owned a car with the om606 motor, only 617, 602 and 603 cars. But I do have to commend your memory of such a minute detail! Tony Wirtel Somebody parked a 606 engined car for many months while waiting for parts after it ate the vac pump bearings, I'm pretty sure of that. Guess I remembered the name wrong. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] 1995 E300D Odessy
Looks like Mercedes content is scarce lately, so I'll tell a story. In the summer of 2013 a friend of work told me about his carpool partner who had an old Mercedes diesel sitting in his driveway, unused, leaking fuel that he was ready to get rid of since he was tired of doing work on it and he went to a Nissan Leaf for his commute. I looked and found a gold 1995 E300d non-turbo with about 220k miles, that I purchased for $2200 and drove home. Over the next 6 months I replaced fuel lines, injector nozzles (Bosio, damn noisy at idle) heater motor brushed, Climate control temperature sensor fan, some transmission stuff to make it shift half way normal, and generally get everything working and turned it over to my wife as her primary vehicle and sold her 1998 Volvo S70 (not a popular move...). The E300 ran for over a year and then in September 2014 while on the highway it lost most of it's power and when we got it to an off ramp would not idle and was leaking oil from the front. I called the kid and his truck and we strap towed it the last 3 miles home, where it sat for a few months before I had time to look at it. What I found was pretty strange, the timing chain had jumped at least one tooth but the intake and exhaust cams were no longer in time with each other, even though the gear mark was lined up. The ultimate culprit was the vacuum pump, of course at 240k miles. I pulled the cams and found that the intake cam gear is pressed to the cam with no index marks or locating pin (?) I pressed the gear off and heated it a little and got it timed correctly withing a few degrees of the exhaust cam. When I got the head off there were impressions in the carbon aligning with the intake valves, they were not obviously bent but after lots of debate and pricing valve jobs, I ordered valves and Neway seat cutters to do the job myself. When I pulled the timing cover I found a crack where the bar that sticks below the crank timing sprocket comes out of the back side of the timing cover I believe this holds the chain in time when tension is removed. I had this welded at an aluminum boat dealer that I used to work at (yes I'm cheap). I ordered timing chain, all guides and headgasket set at this point and began re-assembly. For the vacuum pump, I cut the damaged lever off of the mechanical pump and went with a Hella electric pump. This saved me about $700+ for the mechanical pump and injection timer assembly. I did final assembly a few weeks ago and got the vacuum system finished on Sunday. On first analysis I may need a better vacuum pump, this Hella gets pretty hot during normal use. Wife is actually pretty happy with it as the standby vehicle she was driving was a 1989 Chev G20 van :-). I did the job so cheap because the car just does not have enough value to spend what it would take to do the job right. I really like the OM606 but, damn, when buying parts I really wished it was a OM603. DaveL Lynnwood, Wa. 1973 GMC 23' motorhome 1982 E300CD daily driver 1995 E300d Gilda 1989 Chev G20 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1995 E300D Odessy
Dave, I'm also curious about the vacuum pump failure. I was under the impression that by '95, the factory installed vacuum pump was the upgraded pump that could not fail catastrophically and cause what happened to your engine. Can you put more color on that? -Max ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1995 E300D Odessy
Looks like Mercedes content is scarce lately, That means: 1. Our MBs are performing as expected or 2. The problems our MBs present are within our skills or 3. some of us have problems to fix, but don't have time to start it and seek the counsel of this august group of PhuDs, brain power and assorted experience. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1995 E300D Odessy
Wow! good troubleshooting. I have wondered about an electric vacuum pump. I beleive you are saying the vacuum pump was the culprit that caused the problem. Was it a ball from the bearing? If that is the case, the moral of the story is to get the OE vacuum pumps replaced, or at least change the bearings every 200k miles or so. I would think they could build a cage to keep the balls out of the timing chain. Makes me even less desirous of a newer MB. I like 123,124 and 126, along with the old 110s. Looks like Mercedes content is scarce lately, so I'll tell a story. In the summer of 2013 a friend of work told me about his carpool partner who had an old Mercedes diesel sitting in his driveway, unused, leaking fuel that he was ready to get rid of since he was tired of doing work on it and he went to a Nissan Leaf for his commute. I looked and found a gold 1995 E300d non-turbo with about 220k miles, that I purchased for $2200 and drove home. Over the next 6 months I replaced fuel lines, injector nozzles (Bosio, damn noisy at idle) heater motor brushed, Climate control temperature sensor fan, some transmission stuff to make it shift half way normal, and generally get everything working and turned it over to my wife as her primary vehicle and sold her 1998 Volvo S70 (not a popular move...). The E300 ran for over a year and then in September 2014 while on the highway it lost most of it's power and when we got it to an off ramp would not idle and was leaking oil from the front. I called the kid and his truck and we strap towed it the last 3 miles home, where it sat for a few months before I had time to look at it. What I found was pretty strange, the timing chain had jumped at least one tooth but the intake and exhaust cams were no longer in time with each other, even though the gear mark was lined up. The ultimate culprit was the vacuum pump, of course at 240k miles. I pulled the cams and found that the intake cam gear is pressed to the cam with no index marks or locating pin (?) I pressed the gear off and heated it a little and got it timed correctly withing a few degrees of the exhaust cam. When I got the head off there were impressions in the carbon aligning with the intake valves, they were not obviously bent but after lots of debate and pricing valve jobs, I ordered valves and Neway seat cutters to do the job myself. When I pulled the timing cover I found a crack where the bar that sticks below the crank timing sprocket comes out of the back side of the timing cover I believe this holds the chain in time when tension is removed. I had this welded at an aluminum boat dealer that I used to work at (yes I'm cheap). I ordered timing chain, all guides and headgasket set at this point and began re-assembly. For the vacuum pump, I cut the damaged lever off of the mechanical pump and went with a Hella electric pump. This saved me about $700+ for the mechanical pump and injection timer assembly. I did final assembly a few weeks ago and got the vacuum system finished on Sunday. On first analysis I may need a better vacuum pump, this Hella gets pretty hot during normal use. Wife is actually pretty happy with it as the standby vehicle she was driving was a 1989 Chev G20 van :-). I did the job so cheap because the car just does not have enough value to spend what it would take to do the job right. I really like the OM606 but, damn, when buying parts I really wished it was a OM603. DaveL Lynnwood, Wa. 1973 GMC 23' motorhome 1982 E300CD daily driver 1995 E300d Gilda 1989 Chev G20 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1995 E300D Odessy
'Sounds like an ATTABOY, anyway. Wilton - Original Message - From: Dave dbl...@comcast.net To: mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2015 2:26 PM Subject: [MBZ] 1995 E300D Odessy Looks like Mercedes content is scarce lately, so I'll tell a story. In the summer of 2013 a friend of work told me about his carpool partner who had an old Mercedes diesel sitting in his driveway, unused, leaking fuel that he was ready to get rid of since he was tired of doing work on it and he went to a Nissan Leaf for his commute. I looked and found a gold 1995 E300d non-turbo with about 220k miles, that I purchased for $2200 and drove home. Over the next 6 months I replaced fuel lines, injector nozzles (Bosio, damn noisy at idle) heater motor brushed, Climate control temperature sensor fan, some transmission stuff to make it shift half way normal, and generally get everything working and turned it over to my wife as her primary vehicle and sold her 1998 Volvo S70 (not a popular move...). The E300 ran for over a year and then in September 2014 while on the highway it lost most of it's power and when we got it to an off ramp would not idle and was leaking oil from the front. I called the kid and his truck and we strap towed it the last 3 miles home, where it sat for a few months before I had time to look at it. What I found was pretty strange, the timing chain had jumped at least one tooth but the intake and exhaust cams were no longer in time with each other, even though the gear mark was lined up. The ultimate culprit was the vacuum pump, of course at 240k miles. I pulled the cams and found that the intake cam gear is pressed to the cam with no index marks or locating pin (?) I pressed the gear off and heated it a little and got it timed correctly withing a few degrees of the exhaust cam. When I got the head off there were impressions in the carbon aligning with the intake valves, they were not obviously bent but after lots of debate and pricing valve jobs, I ordered valves and Neway seat cutters to do the job myself. When I pulled the timing cover I found a crack where the bar that sticks below the crank timing sprocket comes out of the back side of the timing cover I believe this holds the chain in time when tension is removed. I had this welded at an aluminum boat dealer that I used to work at (yes I'm cheap). I ordered timing chain, all guides and headgasket set at this point and began re-assembly. For the vacuum pump, I cut the damaged lever off of the mechanical pump and went with a Hella electric pump. This saved me about $700+ for the mechanical pump and injection timer assembly. I did final assembly a few weeks ago and got the vacuum system finished on Sunday. On first analysis I may need a better vacuum pump, this Hella gets pretty hot during normal use. Wife is actually pretty happy with it as the standby vehicle she was driving was a 1989 Chev G20 van :-). I did the job so cheap because the car just does not have enough value to spend what it would take to do the job right. I really like the OM606 but, damn, when buying parts I really wished it was a OM603. DaveL Lynnwood, Wa. 1973 GMC 23' motorhome 1982 E300CD daily driver 1995 E300d Gilda 1989 Chev G20 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1995 E300D Odessy
I beleive you are saying the vacuum pump was the culprit that caused the problem. Was it a ball from the bearing? If that is the case, the moral of the story is to get the OE vacuum pumps replaced, or at least change the bearings every 200k miles or so. I would think they could build a cage to keep the balls out of the timing chain. Makes me even less desirous of a newer MB. I like 123,124 and 126, along with the old 110s. I run on digest mode so replies are always delayed. Yes, the ball bearings failed and all of the balls and remainder of the cages dropped into the chain. I fished in the pan for an hour or so with various magnets and came up with 8 or so loose balls. The car is a 1995 124 and the pump was a Pierburg date coded in 1994. I would have pulled and inspected the pump but just did not know to do it until I searched the web for the failure. All of my Mercedes have been 110 and 123 diesel so this was a new experience. Cool, my first ATTABOY. Thanks for the stories Wilton, I love all of them. DaveL ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] 1995 E300D Odessy
DaveL wrote: Looks like Mercedes content is scarce lately, so I'll tell a story. Here's another one: I was coming back empty handed from fishing when I noticed that the A/C in my 08 Prius was not cooling like it should. It was about 4:00 p.m. so I went by the dealer to see if they could top off the freon. The A/C had cooled well enough in cloudy weather, but it couldn't seem to handle the hot Florida sun when it came out. It was two days before the IRS tax deadline, a Monday, and the large Toyota dealership had almost no customers. The shop took my car and I sat down in the service managers room. I had heard that many people were leasing cars, and I had done the numbers which looked pretty good, so I went over to a new girl on one of the service desks and ask her how much leases on standard Prius costs. The head service manager overheard and practically dragged me up to the row of sales offices in the showroom where 5 or 6 salesmen, including the sales manager, descended on me with a massive high pressure sales attack. There I was, an old geezer in smelly fishing clothes, backed into a corner while being assaulted by a half dozen aggressive car salesmen with dollar signs in their eyes. Every time they offered me the best deal in West Florida I said, Give me a written estimate. I must have said it a dozen times. I finally managed to get back to the service department where my car was ready, and just before checking out, the sales crew showed up again and said, How can we lease you a car or something like that. I said, If I decide to lease, I'll request a bid from several dealers and pick the lowest. That really deflated them and they left. I told the girl at the service desk that those clowns ought to start a comedy troupe. She laughed and apologized for their rude behaviour. I like to think my bill was lower than estimated because of it. Gerry PS: The A/C works fine now, so thankfully the shop is much better than the sales department which broke every rule of salesmanship that I know of, and probably some that I don't. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1995 E300D Odessy
May hafta throw in another Country Boy Tale soon. ;) Wilton - Original Message - From: Curly McLain 126die...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2015 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 1995 E300D Odessy Looks like Mercedes content is scarce lately, That means: 1. Our MBs are performing as expected or 2. The problems our MBs present are within our skills or 3. some of us have problems to fix, but don't have time to start it and seek the counsel of this august group of PhuDs, brain power and assorted experience. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1995 E300D Odessy
Dave wrote: Yes, the ball bearings failed and all of the balls and remainder of the cages dropped into the chain. I seem to recall reading in these lists, about ten years ago, that this was fairly common in early OM606 engines. Didn't the exact same thing happen to Tony Wirtel? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1995 E300D Odessy
Attaboy indeed! Wilton is the official dispensor of OFFICIAL ATTABOYs! You did well diagnosing and repairing the problem. You might try Car-part.com to see if anyone who has an OM606 will sell you a used new style vacuum pump on a budget. Many of them are realistic about their prices. I beleive you are saying the vacuum pump was the culprit that caused the problem. Was it a ball from the bearing? If that is the case, the moral of the story is to get the OE vacuum pumps replaced, or at least change the bearings every 200k miles or so. I would think they could build a cage to keep the balls out of the timing chain. Makes me even less desirous of a newer MB. I like 123,124 and 126, along with the old 110s. I run on digest mode so replies are always delayed. Yes, the ball bearings failed and all of the balls and remainder of the cages dropped into the chain. I fished in the pan for an hour or so with various magnets and came up with 8 or so loose balls. The car is a 1995 124 and the pump was a Pierburg date coded in 1994. I would have pulled and inspected the pump but just did not know to do it until I searched the web for the failure. All of my Mercedes have been 110 and 123 diesel so this was a new experience. Cool, my first ATTABOY. Thanks for the stories Wilton, I love all of them. DaveL ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1995 E300D Odessy
On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 18:26:48 + (UTC) Dave dbl...@comcast.net wrote: Wife is actually pretty happy with it as the standby vehicle she was driving was a 1989 Chev G20 van :-). So we have something in common ... I also have an '89 G20 van (ours is a Beauville). Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1995 E300D Odessy
E300D is sort of rare and more valuable. I had a giant issue getting the insco to not screw me on value. They wanted to give me $4k, I wanted to be made whole. The transaction took a few months, and they finally found a REAL comparable after looking at six examples. Turned out the car is really worth $9500 when they stopped looking at the E320. clay 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately well tailored chap 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers On Apr 15, 2015, at 11:26 AM, Dave wrote: Looks like Mercedes content is scarce lately, so I'll tell a story. In the summer of 2013 a friend of work told me about his carpool partner who had an old Mercedes diesel sitting in his driveway, unused, leaking fuel that he was ready to get rid of since he was tired of doing work on it and he went to a Nissan Leaf for his commute. I looked and found a gold 1995 E300d non-turbo with about 220k miles, that I purchased for $2200 and drove home. Over the next 6 months I replaced fuel lines, injector nozzles (Bosio, damn noisy at idle) heater motor brushed, Climate control temperature sensor fan, some transmission stuff to make it shift half way normal, and generally get everything working and turned it over to my wife as her primary vehicle and sold her 1998 Volvo S70 (not a popular move...). The E300 ran for over a year and then in September 2014 while on the highway it lost most of it's power and when we got it to an off ramp would not idle and was leaking oil from the front. I called the kid and his truck and we strap towed it the last 3 miles home, where it sat for a few months before I had time to look at it. What I found was pretty strange, the timing chain had jumped at least one tooth but the intake and exhaust cams were no longer in time with each other, even though the gear mark was lined up. The ultimate culprit was the vacuum pump, of course at 240k miles. I pulled the cams and found that the intake cam gear is pressed to the cam with no index marks or locating pin (?) I pressed the gear off and heated it a little and got it timed correctly withing a few degrees of the exhaust cam. When I got the head off there were impressions in the carbon aligning with the intake valves, they were not obviously bent but after lots of debate and pricing valve jobs, I order ed valves and Neway seat cutters to do the job myself. When I pulled the timing cover I found a crack where the bar that sticks below the crank timing sprocket comes out of the back side of the timing cover I believe this holds the chain in time when tension is removed. I had this welded at an aluminum boat dealer that I used to work at (yes I'm cheap). I ordered timing chain, all guides and headgasket set at this point and began re-assembly. For the vacuum pump, I cut the damaged lever off of the mechanical pump and went with a Hella electric pump. This saved me about $700+ for the mechanical pump and injection timer assembly. I did final assembly a few weeks ago and got the vacuum system finished on Sunday. On first analysis I may need a better vacuum pump, this Hella gets pretty hot during normal use. Wife is actually pretty happy with it as the standby vehicle she was driving was a 1989 Chev G20 van :-). I did the job so cheap because the car just does not have enough value to spend what it would take to do the job right. I really like the OM606 but, damn, when buying parts I really wished it was a OM603. DaveL Lynnwood, Wa. 1973 GMC 23' motorhome 1982 E300CD daily driver 1995 E300d Gilda 1989 Chev G20 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1995 E300D Odessy
Curly, He needs the vacuum pump AND the injection pump timer, which together were about $700 in 2009 when I did mine. Used would be fine for both. I wonder if the timer is unique, I know the vacuum pump is common to the earlier OM60x engines. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD '95 E300 On April 15, 2015 8:59:37 PM EDT, Curly McLain 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Attaboy indeed! Wilton is the official dispensor of OFFICIAL ATTABOYs! You did well diagnosing and repairing the problem. You might try Car-part.com to see if anyone who has an OM606 will sell you a used new style vacuum pump on a budget. Many of them are realistic about their prices. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
