Re: [MBZ] Anti sieze on aliminum wheels; tightening torque; meaning of words
The difference between the word that is correct and the word that is almost correct is the difference between lightning and lightning bugs. - attributed to Winston Churchill. Maybe he merely meant the spherical collar screws were tighter than he had ever seen or imagined. I can buy that. They must have been extremely tight. I suspect something would break before 250 ft lb tightening torque, but do not know. Perhaps someone does know the breaking torque for M12 x 1.5 spherical collar screws holding on steel or alumininum wheels. If so, you know who you are. Speak up, please. I promise to not ask how you know. When discussing technical things and using numbers to communicate, one should be careful to say as near to exactly what one means as one can, to avoid confusion. If one is not sure of a technical fact, it does not mean one is a bad person or even seriously disabled, but one should say so. Words do have meanings. That is the engineering position. Do recovering engineers see it a whole lot differently? If so, why? Please elaborate. Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 22:52:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Anti sieze on aluminum wheels To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I don't think he was serious about the 250 ft lb, just stressing the fact that they were way over-torqued. That's OK, I was an Engineer once but now I'm a Recovering Engineer. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Bigham Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 10:09 PM To: E M; mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Anti sieze on aluminum wheels 250 ft lb is way too much torque on spherical collar screws holding on steel or alloy road wheels. My Daimler Benz Passenger Car Technical Data book says tighten them to 110 NM, equal roughly to 81 ft lb if I didn't botch the conversion. No wonder they are hard to get off when torqued to 250 ft lb. The wonder is that they survive being so overtightened without damage to screw, wheel, or hub. Engineered like no other car - Original Message - From: E M To: Mercedes Discussion List Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 8/19/2007 5:08:52 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Anti sieze on aluminum wheels Oh, the wheel didn't have a problem sitting flush with the hub, but when you torque the bolts to about 250 or more f/lbs, it's amazing how two things can kind of stick themselves together! :-) ( Note to me: never never leave the car unattended at the garage!! I should know this by now!) All fixed now and it allowed me to give the inside of the wheel a good detailing too. Just have to do the other three now. Ed 300E ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Anti sieze on aliminum wheels; tightening torque; meaning of words
I agree 100% about your Words do have meaning statement and I agree that in the Engineering world, communication is very literal indeed. But I have learned that non-engineers communicate in more abstract, often making statements that have implied meaning. By Recovering Engineer I mean I've learned to be less literal with my conversations in certain circles. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Bigham Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 12:10 AM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Anti sieze on aliminum wheels; tightening torque;meaning of words The difference between the word that is correct and the word that is almost correct is the difference between lightning and lightning bugs. - attributed to Winston Churchill. Maybe he merely meant the spherical collar screws were tighter than he had ever seen or imagined. I can buy that. They must have been extremely tight. I suspect something would break before 250 ft lb tightening torque, but do not know. Perhaps someone does know the breaking torque for M12 x 1.5 spherical collar screws holding on steel or alumininum wheels. If so, you know who you are. Speak up, please. I promise to not ask how you know. When discussing technical things and using numbers to communicate, one should be careful to say as near to exactly what one means as one can, to avoid confusion. If one is not sure of a technical fact, it does not mean one is a bad person or even seriously disabled, but one should say so. Words do have meanings. That is the engineering position. Do recovering engineers see it a whole lot differently? If so, why? Please elaborate. Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 22:52:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Anti sieze on aluminum wheels To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I don't think he was serious about the 250 ft lb, just stressing the fact that they were way over-torqued. That's OK, I was an Engineer once but now I'm a Recovering Engineer. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Bigham Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 10:09 PM To: E M; mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Anti sieze on aluminum wheels 250 ft lb is way too much torque on spherical collar screws holding on steel or alloy road wheels. My Daimler Benz Passenger Car Technical Data book says tighten them to 110 NM, equal roughly to 81 ft lb if I didn't botch the conversion. No wonder they are hard to get off when torqued to 250 ft lb. The wonder is that they survive being so overtightened without damage to screw, wheel, or hub. Engineered like no other car - Original Message - From: E M To: Mercedes Discussion List Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 8/19/2007 5:08:52 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Anti sieze on aluminum wheels Oh, the wheel didn't have a problem sitting flush with the hub, but when you torque the bolts to about 250 or more f/lbs, it's amazing how two things can kind of stick themselves together! :-) ( Note to me: never never leave the car unattended at the garage!! I should know this by now!) All fixed now and it allowed me to give the inside of the wheel a good detailing too. Just have to do the other three now. Ed 300E ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Anti sieze on aliminum wheels; tightening torque; meaning of words
No, I agree with your point Robert. Torque figures are very accurate for a reason, and I do my best to follow them and get as close to them as possible at all times. However, in my original post, I don't have a problem throwing out a number like 250, as I've felt 200 before and this felt like more. Reason I don't have a problem throwing out a nubmer like 250 is, I don't really expect anyone to read it and think, oh, it can't take that, and to prove it, I'll go out now and torque my wheels to 250. Now, if asked how tight to torque a lugnut, I would never say, oh, about 100 f/lbs., give or take. However, in the original context of my post, I think the use of 250 was ok. :-) Ed 300E On 20/08/07, Robert Bigham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The difference between the word that is correct and the word that is almost correct is the difference between lightning and lightning bugs. - attributed to Winston Churchill. Maybe he merely meant the spherical collar screws were tighter than he had ever seen or imagined. I can buy that. They must have been extremely tight. I suspect something would break before 250 ft lb tightening torque, but do not know. Perhaps someone does know the breaking torque for M12 x 1.5 spherical collar screws holding on steel or alumininum wheels. If so, you know who you are. Speak up, please. I promise to not ask how you know. When discussing technical things and using numbers to communicate, one should be careful to say as near to exactly what one means as one can, to avoid confusion. If one is not sure of a technical fact, it does not mean one is a bad person or even seriously disabled, but one should say so. Words do have meanings. That is the engineering position. Do recovering engineers see it a whole lot differently? If so, why? Please elaborate. Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 22:52:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Anti sieze on aluminum wheels To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I don't think he was serious about the 250 ft lb, just stressing the fact that they were way over-torqued. That's OK, I was an Engineer once but now I'm a Recovering Engineer. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Bigham Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 10:09 PM To: E M; mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Anti sieze on aluminum wheels 250 ft lb is way too much torque on spherical collar screws holding on steel or alloy road wheels. My Daimler Benz Passenger Car Technical Data book says tighten them to 110 NM, equal roughly to 81 ft lb if I didn't botch the conversion. No wonder they are hard to get off when torqued to 250 ft lb. The wonder is that they survive being so overtightened without damage to screw, wheel, or hub. Engineered like no other car - Original Message - From: E M To: Mercedes Discussion List Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 8/19/2007 5:08:52 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Anti sieze on aluminum wheels Oh, the wheel didn't have a problem sitting flush with the hub, but when you torque the bolts to about 250 or more f/lbs, it's amazing how two things can kind of stick themselves together! :-) ( Note to me: never never leave the car unattended at the garage!! I should know this by now!) All fixed now and it allowed me to give the inside of the wheel a good detailing too. Just have to do the other three now. Ed 300E ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
