RE: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ??
Don, You forgot to mention ongoing maintenance. I'll bet that some parts for the Prius cost a small fortune because of the technology involved. You also forgot to mention depreciation. The Mercedes is pretty much depreciated out and I'll bet you will be able to retrieve at least half it's value 8 years later. The Prius? Count on 2K, maybe. This throws another 2K towards the Mercedes. Thanks, Tom Hargrave 256-656-1924 http://stores.ebay.com/Tom-Hargrave-Sales -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of OK Don Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 8:22 PM To: Mercedes mailing list Subject: Re: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ?? Let's see - you get about 18 mpg in the 560SEL? and it costs $8,000. A new Prius gets about 50 MPG, and costs about $21,000. You pay cash for either car. The difference is $13,000. Say that gas will be $3.00/gal. by the end of the year. If you drive 15,000 miles per year, you'll spend $2, 500 for gas for the 560SEL vs. $900 for the Prius. The difference is $1600. It will take 8 years to break even. I'd rather drive a 560SEL than a Prius for eight years -- -- That's how I justify keeping the 450SLC, which only gets 15 MPG, but I won't drive it that many miles a year either. The 300SDL gets the miles. On 6/22/05, Kaleb C. Striplin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > They dont really get THAT bad of mileage considering how big the car > is, how big the engine is, and how much POWER those things put out. > Crap, I need to get my 560 back on the road. $8k is a little steep > though unless its REALLY nice, although 91 being the last year would > be a good year to get. > > Trampas wrote: > > > I was trying to convince the wife that an $8k 1991 560SEL with 113k > > miles was the best thing to replace the old diesel with. It is just > > hard to justify the bad gas mileage. > > > > Regards, > > Trampas > > -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK '87 300SDL '81 240D '78 450SLC ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ??
Well considering the pissus will be in the junkyard WAY before 8 years is up because the batteries died and cost more than the car is worth to replace, even more in favor of the 560. OK Don wrote: Let's see - you get about 18 mpg in the 560SEL? and it costs $8,000. A new Prius gets about 50 MPG, and costs about $21,000. You pay cash for either car. The difference is $13,000. Say that gas will be $3.00/gal. by the end of the year. If you drive 15,000 miles per year, you'll spend $2, 500 for gas for the 560SEL vs. $900 for the Prius. The difference is $1600. It will take 8 years to break even. I'd rather drive a 560SEL than a Prius for eight years -- -- That's how I justify keeping the 450SLC, which only gets 15 MPG, but I won't drive it that many miles a year either. The 300SDL gets the miles. On 6/22/05, Kaleb C. Striplin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: They dont really get THAT bad of mileage considering how big the car is, how big the engine is, and how much POWER those things put out. Crap, I need to get my 560 back on the road. $8k is a little steep though unless its REALLY nice, although 91 being the last year would be a good year to get. Trampas wrote: I was trying to convince the wife that an $8k 1991 560SEL with 113k miles was the best thing to replace the old diesel with. It is just hard to justify the bad gas mileage. Regards, Trampas -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250 Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts
Re: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ??
Let's see - you get about 18 mpg in the 560SEL? and it costs $8,000. A new Prius gets about 50 MPG, and costs about $21,000. You pay cash for either car. The difference is $13,000. Say that gas will be $3.00/gal. by the end of the year. If you drive 15,000 miles per year, you'll spend $2, 500 for gas for the 560SEL vs. $900 for the Prius. The difference is $1600. It will take 8 years to break even. I'd rather drive a 560SEL than a Prius for eight years -- -- That's how I justify keeping the 450SLC, which only gets 15 MPG, but I won't drive it that many miles a year either. The 300SDL gets the miles. On 6/22/05, Kaleb C. Striplin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > They dont really get THAT bad of mileage considering how big the car is, > how big the engine is, and how much POWER those things put out. Crap, I > need to get my 560 back on the road. $8k is a little steep though > unless its REALLY nice, although 91 being the last year would be a good > year to get. > > Trampas wrote: > > > I was trying to convince the wife that an $8k 1991 560SEL with 113k miles > > was the best thing to replace the old diesel with. It is just hard to > > justify the bad gas mileage. > > > > Regards, > > Trampas > > -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK '87 300SDL '81 240D '78 450SLC
Re: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ??
They dont really get THAT bad of mileage considering how big the car is, how big the engine is, and how much POWER those things put out. Crap, I need to get my 560 back on the road. $8k is a little steep though unless its REALLY nice, although 91 being the last year would be a good year to get. Trampas wrote: I was trying to convince the wife that an $8k 1991 560SEL with 113k miles was the best thing to replace the old diesel with. It is just hard to justify the bad gas mileage. Regards, Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of OK Don Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 7:14 PM To: Mercedes mailing list Subject: Re: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ?? Replace the 300Sd with an '86 - '87 300SDL. Get's the 0-62 time closer to 13 sec. Measure your 0-62 mph acceleration time. It should be about 15 seconds (or 16 if it's a California certified car). If it's that fast you will not get it to be much faster no matter what you do without risking damaging the engine. If it's slower than that, then there's something wrong! Marshall -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250 Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts
RE: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ??
I was trying to convince the wife that an $8k 1991 560SEL with 113k miles was the best thing to replace the old diesel with. It is just hard to justify the bad gas mileage. Regards, Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of OK Don Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 7:14 PM To: Mercedes mailing list Subject: Re: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ?? Replace the 300Sd with an '86 - '87 300SDL. Get's the 0-62 time closer to 13 sec. > Measure your 0-62 mph acceleration time. It should be about 15 seconds > (or 16 if it's a California certified car). If it's that fast you will > not get it to be much faster no matter what you do without risking > damaging the engine. If it's slower than that, then there's something wrong! > > Marshall -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK '87 300SDL '81 240D '78 450SLC ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ??
Replace the 300Sd with an '86 - '87 300SDL. Get's the 0-62 time closer to 13 sec. > Measure your 0-62 mph acceleration time. It should be about 15 seconds > (or 16 if it's a California certified car). If it's that fast you will > not get it to be much faster no matter what you do without risking > damaging the engine. If it's slower than that, then there's something wrong! > > Marshall -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK '87 300SDL '81 240D '78 450SLC
Re: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ??
Trampas wrote: I have done all the normal stuff, ALDL adjusted and check boost at ALDL, valves adjusted, etc. Of course I have fixed the EGR and the NoX pop off valve (yes it is a 1985). I have also done timing chain, diesel purge, etc. I even dropped exhaust system to check for plugging. The only problems I have found was #2 cylinder is a little low on compression. The thing that helped any amount was disconnecting waste gate, did I mention my attempts to blow it up? I have driven several other 300SDs and 300Ds, from what I can tell mine is faster than about 80% of the ones I have driven so I figure it is about normal. I am guessing the injectors need to be replaced, the cam may have some wear and I may need to set IP timing. Measure your 0-62 mph acceleration time. It should be about 15 seconds (or 16 if it's a California certified car). If it's that fast you will not get it to be much faster no matter what you do without risking damaging the engine. If it's slower than that, then there's something wrong! Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 181Kmi,'87 190D 2.5 199Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 227Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 159Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 234kmi Diesel Technical Advisor MBCA, member GWSection http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/mbooth1.htm
RE: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ??
Yeah, rear view mirrors and turn signals are for wimps down here. Royce Engler 1985 300TD Turbo 265K -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Potter, Tom E Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:48 AM To: TimothyPilgrim; Mercedes mailing list Subject: RE: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ?? Hell, that is what "merge" means here in Houston. Thomas E. Potter Telephone: (713) 215-2877 Fax: (713) 215-2551 Mobile: (832) 794-0536 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of TimothyPilgrim Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:37 AM To: Mercedes mailing list Subject: Re: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ?? ...Why merge when you've got the weight to sideswipe others out of the way? Tim 1982 300TD Moby ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
RE: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ??
I have done all the normal stuff, ALDL adjusted and check boost at ALDL, valves adjusted, etc. Of course I have fixed the EGR and the NoX pop off valve (yes it is a 1985). I have also done timing chain, diesel purge, etc. I even dropped exhaust system to check for plugging. The only problems I have found was #2 cylinder is a little low on compression. The thing that helped any amount was disconnecting waste gate, did I mention my attempts to blow it up? I have driven several other 300SDs and 300Ds, from what I can tell mine is faster than about 80% of the ones I have driven so I figure it is about normal. I am guessing the injectors need to be replaced, the cam may have some wear and I may need to set IP timing. Regards, Trampas _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mathieu J. Cama Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 12:39 PM To: Mercedes mailing list Subject: RE: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ?? Check the fitting on the back of the intake manifold that connects the plastic line to the alda as well as the banjo fitting on the line. When this is clogged, your performance will be slow on the m617 turbo. Also, if this does not help you, there is a switchover valve on the firewall on the driver's side. The line from the alda goes to this valve and then goes to the intake manifold. You can bypass this switch by connecting the lines together and sometimes that will help your performance. Those valves do fail and cause poor performance. A well tuned 617 turbo should not have any issues getting up to highway speed. I assume you have performed the routine maintenance such as valve adjustments, diesel purge, etc. Mathieu Cama At 12:17 PM 6/22/2005, you wrote: My 420SEL gets 19 around town and 22 on highway. My 300SD gets 25 MPG. Over all the 300SD is slow compared to the 420SEL and I have thought long and hard about replacing the diesel with a gasser just so I can merge onto highway. Regards, Trampas
Re: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ??
Yep Mr. Velazco did that to me in my truck about a month ago, no insurance, address on license not current, just bought the truck from some dealer the listed owner sold it to...probably will not register it in his name (if at all). --R Potter, Tom E wrote: Hell, that is what "merge" means here in Houston. Thomas E. Potter Telephone: (713) 215-2877 Fax: (713) 215-2551 Mobile: (832) 794-0536 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of TimothyPilgrim Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:37 AM To: Mercedes mailing list Subject: Re: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ?? ...Why merge when you've got the weight to sideswipe others out of the way? Tim 1982 300TD Moby ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
RE: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ??
Hell, that is what "merge" means here in Houston. Thomas E. Potter Telephone: (713) 215-2877 Fax: (713) 215-2551 Mobile: (832) 794-0536 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of TimothyPilgrim Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:37 AM To: Mercedes mailing list Subject: Re: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ?? ...Why merge when you've got the weight to sideswipe others out of the way? Tim 1982 300TD Moby
RE: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ??
Check the fitting on the back of the intake manifold that connects the plastic line to the alda as well as the banjo fitting on the line. When this is clogged, your performance will be slow on the m617 turbo. Also, if this does not help you, there is a switchover valve on the firewall on the driver's side. The line from the alda goes to this valve and then goes to the intake manifold. You can bypass this switch by connecting the lines together and sometimes that will help your performance. Those valves do fail and cause poor performance. A well tuned 617 turbo should not have any issues getting up to highway speed. I assume you have performed the routine maintenance such as valve adjustments, diesel purge, etc. Mathieu Cama At 12:17 PM 6/22/2005, you wrote: My 420SEL gets 19 around town and 22 on highway. My 300SD gets 25 MPG. Over all the 300SD is slow compared to the 420SEL and I have thought long and hard about replacing the diesel with a gasser just so I can merge onto highway. Regards, Trampas
Re: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ??
Why merge when you've got the weight to sideswipe others out of the way? Tim 1982 300TD Moby On 6/22/05, Trampas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > My 420SEL gets 19 around town and 22 on highway. My 300SD gets 25 MPG. > > > > Over all the 300SD is slow compared to the 420SEL and I have thought long > and hard about replacing the diesel with a gasser just so I can merge onto > highway. > > > > > Regards, > > Trampas > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Tom Hargrave > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 7:55 AM > To: 'Mercedes mailing list' > Subject: RE: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ?? > > > > > Hank, > > > > Diesel maintenance costs are higher because of the more frequent oil changes > but I believe that a diesel is cheaper over the long run because of the > economy of the engine. Mercedes gas engines also have additional engine > electronics that cost $$$ to replace if / when they fail. Gas engine spark > plugs get replaced but so do diesel glow plugs at a considerably higher > cost. A gas engine has spark plug wires but the originals last well over > 100,000 miles, unlike their American counterparts. All of the accessory > items (alternator, starter, AC) cost pretty much the same and fail at the > same rate. > > > > If I drove a sane number of miles per year, I'd drive a 420 SEL, but 50,000 > + miles per year would get expensive at 17 MPG (highway). > > Thanks, > Tom Hargrave > 256-656-1924 > http://stores.ebay.com/Tom-Hargrave-Sales > > > > > > ________ > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Henry Kolesnik > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 7:38 AM > To: Mercedes mailing list > Subject: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ?? > > > Tom > > > Over the long term are the maintenance and operating costs significantly > different? > > > tnx > > > > 73 > Hank WD5JFR > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: Tom Hargrave > > > To: 'Don & Teresa Merriman' ; 'Mercedes mailing list' > > > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 10:58 PM > > > Subject: RE: [MBZ] another stupid oil question > > > > > I'll let you in on a little secret - properly maintained Mercedes gassers > last longer than properly maintained Mercedes diesels. > > > > > Thanks, > Tom Hargrave > 256-656-1924 > http://stores.ebay.com/Tom-Hargrave-Sales > > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Don & Teresa Merriman > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 9:25 PM > To: Mercedes mailing list > Subject: Re: [MBZ] another stupid oil question > > Now now dudes, I drive a gas pot Benz with 487,000 miles, maintenance > counts. > > > On 6/20/05, Lee Einer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Not me. From what I hear, the new MBs aren't worth a cup of cold spit. I > like the idea of a vehicle which can keep going for half a million > miles. For me , that means an old Benz diesel. > > I guess as a disclaimer I should mention that I am an unrepentant CAB > (Cheap-Assed Bastard.) But I chose an old Benz over a new VW diesel not > solely based on cost but because the new VW turbodiesels are reported to > have issues, and the new MBs are reported to be no more reliable than an > Oldsmobile. > > Royce Engler wrote: > > >Hey, if we weren't cheap assed bastards, we'd be driving NEW Mercedes > >Diesels... > > > >Royce Engler > >1985 300TD Turbo 265K > > > > > > > >-Original Message- > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >[mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of BenzBarn > >Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 8:36 PM > >To: Mercedes mailing list > >Subject: Re: [MBZ] another stupid oil question > > > > > >Hey, not a bad idea. > > > >I do feel better. ( cheap assed bastards ) > > > > > >___ > >For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >For new parts see www.buymbparts.com > >For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com > > > >To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net > > > > > > > >___ > >
Re: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ??
I'd say you're getting remarkably good city mileage from your 420, and that you need to have a look at the SD if the acceleration is that bad. To begin with, do you have the EGR, er, 'tuned up' on the SD? Mac [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My 420SEL gets 19 around town and 22 on highway. My 300SD gets 25 MPG. Over all the 300SD is slow compared to the 420SEL and I have thought long and hard about replacing the diesel with a gasser just so I can merge onto highway.
RE: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ??
My 420SEL gets 19 around town and 22 on highway. My 300SD gets 25 MPG. Over all the 300SD is slow compared to the 420SEL and I have thought long and hard about replacing the diesel with a gasser just so I can merge onto highway. Regards, Trampas _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Hargrave Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 7:55 AM To: 'Mercedes mailing list' Subject: RE: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ?? Hank, Diesel maintenance costs are higher because of the more frequent oil changes but I believe that a diesel is cheaper over the long run because of the economy of the engine. Mercedes gas engines also have additional engine electronics that cost $$$ to replace if / when they fail. Gas engine spark plugs get replaced but so do diesel glow plugs at a considerably higher cost. A gas engine has spark plug wires but the originals last well over 100,000 miles, unlike their American counterparts. All of the accessory items (alternator, starter, AC) cost pretty much the same and fail at the same rate. If I drove a sane number of miles per year, I'd drive a 420 SEL, but 50,000 + miles per year would get expensive at 17 MPG (highway). Thanks, Tom Hargrave 256-656-1924 http://stores.ebay.com/Tom-Hargrave-Sales _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Henry Kolesnik Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 7:38 AM To: Mercedes mailing list Subject: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ?? Tom Over the long term are the maintenance and operating costs significantly different? tnx 73 Hank WD5JFR - Original Message - From: Tom Hargrave <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 'Don <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> & Teresa Merriman' ; 'Mercedes mailing list' <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 10:58 PM Subject: RE: [MBZ] another stupid oil question I'll let you in on a little secret - properly maintained Mercedes gassers last longer than properly maintained Mercedes diesels. Thanks, Tom Hargrave 256-656-1924 http://stores.ebay.com/Tom-Hargrave-Sales _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don & Teresa Merriman Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 9:25 PM To: Mercedes mailing list Subject: Re: [MBZ] another stupid oil question Now now dudes, I drive a gas pot Benz with 487,000 miles, maintenance counts. On 6/20/05, Lee Einer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Not me. From what I hear, the new MBs aren't worth a cup of cold spit. I like the idea of a vehicle which can keep going for half a million miles. For me , that means an old Benz diesel. I guess as a disclaimer I should mention that I am an unrepentant CAB (Cheap-Assed Bastard.) But I chose an old Benz over a new VW diesel not solely based on cost but because the new VW turbodiesels are reported to have issues, and the new MBs are reported to be no more reliable than an Oldsmobile. Royce Engler wrote: >Hey, if we weren't cheap assed bastards, we'd be driving NEW Mercedes >Diesels... > >Royce Engler >1985 300TD Turbo 265K > > > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of BenzBarn >Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 8:36 PM >To: Mercedes mailing list >Subject: Re: [MBZ] another stupid oil question > > >Hey, not a bad idea. > >I do feel better. ( cheap assed bastards ) > > >___ >For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For new parts see www.buymbparts.com >For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com > >To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net > > > >___ >For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For new parts see www.buymbparts.com >For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com <http://www.oldworldauto.com> > >To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net > > > -- Lee Einer Dos Manos Jewelry http://www.dosmanosjewelry.com ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com <http://www.oldworldauto.com> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net -- Don & Teresa Merriman Market Place Mexico Vacation Rentals Property Administration _ ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
RE: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ??
Hank, Diesel maintenance costs are higher because of the more frequent oil changes but I believe that a diesel is cheaper over the long run because of the economy of the engine. Mercedes gas engines also have additional engine electronics that cost $$$ to replace if / when they fail. Gas engine spark plugs get replaced but so do diesel glow plugs at a considerably higher cost. A gas engine has spark plug wires but the originals last well over 100,000 miles, unlike their American counterparts. All of the accessory items (alternator, starter, AC) cost pretty much the same and fail at the same rate. If I drove a sane number of miles per year, I'd drive a 420 SEL, but 50,000 + miles per year would get expensive at 17 MPG (highway). Thanks, Tom Hargrave 256-656-1924 http://stores.ebay.com/Tom-Hargrave-Sales _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Henry Kolesnik Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 7:38 AM To: Mercedes mailing list Subject: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ?? Tom Over the long term are the maintenance and operating costs significantly different? tnx 73 Hank WD5JFR - Original Message - From: Tom <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hargrave To: 'Don <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> & Teresa Merriman' ; 'Mercedes <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> mailing list' Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 10:58 PM Subject: RE: [MBZ] another stupid oil question I'll let you in on a little secret - properly maintained Mercedes gassers last longer than properly maintained Mercedes diesels. Thanks, Tom Hargrave 256-656-1924 http://stores.ebay.com/Tom-Hargrave-Sales _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don & Teresa Merriman Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 9:25 PM To: Mercedes mailing list Subject: Re: [MBZ] another stupid oil question Now now dudes, I drive a gas pot Benz with 487,000 miles, maintenance counts. On 6/20/05, Lee Einer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Not me. From what I hear, the new MBs aren't worth a cup of cold spit. I like the idea of a vehicle which can keep going for half a million miles. For me , that means an old Benz diesel. I guess as a disclaimer I should mention that I am an unrepentant CAB (Cheap-Assed Bastard.) But I chose an old Benz over a new VW diesel not solely based on cost but because the new VW turbodiesels are reported to have issues, and the new MBs are reported to be no more reliable than an Oldsmobile. Royce Engler wrote: >Hey, if we weren't cheap assed bastards, we'd be driving NEW Mercedes >Diesels... > >Royce Engler >1985 300TD Turbo 265K > > > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of BenzBarn >Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 8:36 PM >To: Mercedes mailing list >Subject: Re: [MBZ] another stupid oil question > > >Hey, not a bad idea. > >I do feel better. ( cheap assed bastards ) > > >___ >For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For new parts see www.buymbparts.com >For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com > >To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net > > > >___ >For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For new parts see www.buymbparts.com >For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com <http://www.oldworldauto.com> > >To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net > > > -- Lee Einer Dos Manos Jewelry http://www.dosmanosjewelry.com ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com <http://www.oldworldauto.com> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net -- Don & Teresa Merriman Market Place Mexico Vacation Rentals Property Administration _ ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ??
Dave M. wrote: I have a few of each (see signature), and I much prefer the diesels, assuming we're talking OM60x diesel engines compared to M10x/M11x gassers (late 80's, early 90's). My 300E has odd intermittent running problems (idle misfire, hard starting, etc) that are nearly impossible to diagnose without throwing at replacing parts via 'shotgun' method (assuming you don't have a warehouse full of OE dealer diagnostic tools). There are forum threads out there with people trying to track down M103 idle problems, who just about went berserk and eventually gave up. The gassers are nice when they run right, when they don't, they're a major PITA. I'm pretty sure over the long term, the diesel will be cheaper for both maintenance and operating costs. The bottom end of Mercedes engines (diesel and gasoline) are very robust and both can last a VERY long time, but the top end of the gassers can rarely go more than 200-250kmi before they need to be reworked. Then there's trhe maintenance of the ignition and emissions systems on a gasser that IS expensive (the newest diesels MAY require much more maintenance than we are used to). As far as the bottom end goes, most gassers WILL wear faster because excess gasoline washes away any oil film and increases cylinder wall/ring wear, while diesel fuel (even in tiny quantities present in an indirect injection diesel) doesn't wash the cylinder wall down like gasoline and might even provide a little lubrication! A well maintained Mercedes gasser that hasn't been abused (oil is changed BEFORE it's dirty) may still have factory markings on the cylinder wall after 500kmi and diesels commonly do! Many gas engines do wear out, few diesels do - they usually break! Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 181Kmi,'87 190D 2.5 199Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 227Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 159Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 234kmi Diesel Technical Advisor MBCA, member GWSection http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/mbooth1.htm
Re: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ??
Dave Thanks for the comment. There seems to be tons of 300E every where I go so I have a hard time understanding why it would be so hard to find someone who can isolate the problem? 73 Hank WD5JFR - Original Message - From: "Dave M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ?? I have a few of each (see signature), and I much prefer the diesels, assuming we're talking OM60x diesel engines compared to M10x/M11x gassers (late 80's, early 90's). My 300E has odd intermittent running problems (idle misfire, hard starting, etc) that are nearly impossible to diagnose without throwing at replacing parts via 'shotgun' method (assuming you don't have a warehouse full of OE dealer diagnostic tools). There are forum threads out there with people trying to track down M103 idle problems, who just about went berserk and eventually gave up. The gassers are nice when they run right, when they don't, they're a major PITA. I'm pretty sure over the long term, the diesel will be cheaper for both maintenance and operating costs. HTH, Dave M. Boise, ID 1994 E500 - 94kmi (Q-ship) 1987 300D - 256kmi (Sportline) 1986 300E - 205kmi 1984 300D - 240kmi -- Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 07:46:25 -0500 (CDT) From: John Robbins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ?? On Tue, 21 Jun 2005, Henry Kolesnik wrote: Tom Over the long term are the maintenance and operating costs significantly different? tnx Gassers do have lots more parts to replace... like an ignition system and it's controls. John '79 300SD ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ??
I have a few of each (see signature), and I much prefer the diesels, assuming we're talking OM60x diesel engines compared to M10x/M11x gassers (late 80's, early 90's). My 300E has odd intermittent running problems (idle misfire, hard starting, etc) that are nearly impossible to diagnose without throwing at replacing parts via 'shotgun' method (assuming you don't have a warehouse full of OE dealer diagnostic tools). There are forum threads out there with people trying to track down M103 idle problems, who just about went berserk and eventually gave up. The gassers are nice when they run right, when they don't, they're a major PITA. I'm pretty sure over the long term, the diesel will be cheaper for both maintenance and operating costs. HTH, Dave M. Boise, ID 1994 E500 - 94kmi (Q-ship) 1987 300D - 256kmi (Sportline) 1986 300E - 205kmi 1984 300D - 240kmi -- Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 07:46:25 -0500 (CDT) From: John Robbins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ?? On Tue, 21 Jun 2005, Henry Kolesnik wrote: Tom Over the long term are the maintenance and operating costs significantly different? tnx Gassers do have lots more parts to replace... like an ignition system and it's controls. John '79 300SD
Re: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ??
And that gasser won't be so happy after you poor a few gallons of used fryer oil in it -- -- (Don - VERY slowly rebuilding a 117 engine) On 6/21/05, Tom Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > John is correct. Plus, the older diesel engines are all mechanical. It's > unlikely that a diesel will leave you stranded somewhere, providing all of > your service parts are in good shape. > > Thanks, > Tom Hargrave > 256-656-1924 -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK '87 300SDL '81 240D '78 450SLC
RE: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ??
John is correct. Plus, the older diesel engines are all mechanical. It's unlikely that a diesel will leave you stranded somewhere, providing all of your service parts are in good shape. Thanks, Tom Hargrave 256-656-1924 http://stores.ebay.com/Tom-Hargrave-Sales -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Robbins Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 7:46 AM To: Mercedes mailing list Subject: Re: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ?? On Tue, 21 Jun 2005, Henry Kolesnik wrote: > Tom > Over the long term are the maintenance and operating costs significantly different? > tnx Gassers do have lots more parts to replace... like an ignition system and it's controls. John '79 300SD ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] GASSER vs D ??
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005, Henry Kolesnik wrote: Tom Over the long term are the maintenance and operating costs significantly different? tnx Gassers do have lots more parts to replace... like an ignition system and it's controls. John '79 300SD
[MBZ] GASSER vs D ??
Tom Over the long term are the maintenance and operating costs significantly different? tnx 73 Hank WD5JFR - Original Message - From: Tom Hargrave To: 'Don & Teresa Merriman' ; 'Mercedes mailing list' Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 10:58 PM Subject: RE: [MBZ] another stupid oil question I'll let you in on a little secret - properly maintained Mercedes gassers last longer than properly maintained Mercedes diesels. Thanks, Tom Hargrave 256-656-1924 http://stores.ebay.com/Tom-Hargrave-Sales -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don & Teresa Merriman Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 9:25 PM To: Mercedes mailing list Subject: Re: [MBZ] another stupid oil question Now now dudes, I drive a gas pot Benz with 487,000 miles, maintenance counts. On 6/20/05, Lee Einer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Not me. From what I hear, the new MBs aren't worth a cup of cold spit. I like the idea of a vehicle which can keep going for half a million miles. For me , that means an old Benz diesel. I guess as a disclaimer I should mention that I am an unrepentant CAB (Cheap-Assed Bastard.) But I chose an old Benz over a new VW diesel not solely based on cost but because the new VW turbodiesels are reported to have issues, and the new MBs are reported to be no more reliable than an Oldsmobile. Royce Engler wrote: >Hey, if we weren't cheap assed bastards, we'd be driving NEW Mercedes >Diesels... > >Royce Engler >1985 300TD Turbo 265K > > > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of BenzBarn >Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 8:36 PM >To: Mercedes mailing list >Subject: Re: [MBZ] another stupid oil question > > >Hey, not a bad idea. > >I do feel better. ( cheap assed bastards ) > > >___ >For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For new parts see www.buymbparts.com >For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com > >To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net > > > >___ >For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For new parts see www.buymbparts.com >For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com > >To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net > > > -- Lee Einer Dos Manos Jewelry http://www.dosmanosjewelry.com ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net -- Don & Teresa Merriman Market Place Mexico Vacation Rentals Property Administration -- ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
