Re: [MBZ] Masks
I guess time is not of the essence in the upper levels of the public health community. For contrast, an Air Force mishap investigation had to be complete in 30 days. At least that was the rule when I was still in uniform. > -Original Message- > From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of > Allan Streib via Mercedes > Sent: Monday, July 06, 2020 4:15 PM > To: G Mann via Mercedes > Cc: Allan Streib > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Masks > > Six months is an eyeblink in normal infectious disease research. > > At normal research pace, I doubt that's enough time to run a scientifically > valid > experiment, write up the results, submit it for publication and have it > reviewed. > > Allan > > > G Mann via Mercedes writes: > > > What impresses me most about covid 19, after now 6 months of endless > > news broadcasts, information releases, and talk by "experts" is: > > > > How little we actually know about the disease, its origin, its short > > term AND long term effects, and how to actually avoid or stop > > spreading infections. > > > > Everyone has opinions.. few have anything that can be remotely called > > hard fact. > > Most who claim to have hard facts have been found to have BS and > > speculation.. > > If ignorance is bliss... this must be the most blissful time in human > > history.. > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Masks
I find it fascinating how much people who don't actually know anything are willing to say... -Curt On Monday, July 6, 2020, 4:16:10 PM EDT, Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote: Six months is an eyeblink in normal infectious disease research. At normal research pace, I doubt that's enough time to run a scientifically valid experiment, write up the results, submit it for publication and have it reviewed. Allan G Mann via Mercedes writes: > What impresses me most about covid 19, after now 6 months of endless news > broadcasts, information releases, and talk by "experts" is: > > How little we actually know about the disease, its origin, its short term > AND long term effects, and how to actually avoid or stop spreading > infections. > > Everyone has opinions.. few have anything that can be remotely called hard > fact. > Most who claim to have hard facts have been found to have BS and > speculation.. > If ignorance is bliss... this must be the most blissful time in human > history.. > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Masks
So are you suggesting surgeons don't need to wear masks at all? Are surgical masks pointless? -Curt On Monday, July 6, 2020, 3:24:38 PM EDT, Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote: Don, I just have a simple question. Do surgeons who are sick still continue to perform operations, do they just put in the mask and say to themselves "This mask will protect the patient from virii I spew from my nose and mouth"? Is that what they do? I'll bet you a dollar they don't, because they know the truth. One more simple question. Do the doctors and nurses who test positive for Wuhan Red Death just put on a mask and go back to work? God did not give us a spirit of fear, but a spirit of love. Have faith, look for truth, use that brain that God gave you. Max Dillon Charleston SC Jul 6, 2020 1:15:40 PM OK Don via Mercedes : > One more time. Those masks are to protect ME from whatever you are spewing, > NOT to protect YOU from incoming particles. > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 11:20 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> Sent from my iPhone___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > -- > OK Don > > "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to > pause and reflect." Mark Twain > > “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.” Wernher > Von Braun > 2013 F150, 18 mpg > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Masks
My boy is working an ICU. They are fully gowned and masked and everything else --R Sent from iPhone > On Jul 6, 2020, at 3:36 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes > wrote: > > I've seen hospital potos - they wear head to toe protective gear when > operating in a COV 19 ward. > > If they are tested and learn they're positive, I would assume they would > not risk spreading the virus for any surgical procedure.. > >> On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 3:24 PM Max Dillon via Mercedes < >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: >> >> Don, I just have a simple question. Do surgeons who are sick still >> continue to perform operations, do they just put in the mask and say to >> themselves "This mask will protect the patient from virii I spew from my >> nose and mouth"? Is that what they do? >> >> I'll bet you a dollar they don't, because they know the truth. >> >> One more simple question. Do the doctors and nurses who test positive for >> Wuhan Red Death just put on a mask and go back to work? >> >> God did not give us a spirit of fear, but a spirit of love. Have faith, >> look for truth, use that brain that God gave you. >> >> Max Dillon >> Charleston SC >> >> Jul 6, 2020 1:15:40 PM OK Don via Mercedes : >> >>> One more time. Those masks are to protect ME from whatever you are >> spewing, >>> NOT to protect YOU from incoming particles. >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 11:20 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: >>> Sent from my iPhone___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> -- >>> OK Don >>> >>> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to >>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain >>> >>> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.” >> Wernher >>> Von Braun >>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg >>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg >>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! >>> ___ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Masks
Another stupid Humans Trick; Woman from SWMBA office delivered a child minus kidneys about 29 months ago. Long hassle to get a donor, but one was found, then the plague hit, and elective medical treatment goes out the window. More dialysis for the baby ensues until transplant center in CA opens back up. Flights out of ANC are booked and baby, with family, head south. Alaska Airlines demands usage of masks on all flights. Misbehave and you will be given a yellow card and banned from future flights indefinitely. Parents have all masked up and kid is as well. Other passengers are wearing masks. Until the morons come over and remove masks and start talking to the kid. Kid is supposedly cute, and this alleviates eejits of responsibility to not spew plague germs on small children or others. Masks are a placebo to make people feel they are participating in some useful manner. As a simple test, I popped one of the masks being handed out to Costco shoppers so they may enter the store and stimulate economy, to do some dusting/cleaning of the garage last week. Winter accumulations of particulates and schmutz from driving through dirty snow had taken up residence on cabinets, shelves and the floor. Battery powered leaf blower did the bulk removal of spider webbing and dust/dirt. That kicked up a cloud of swirling filth to stand in. Got much of it out the door and went back in with damp shop toweling to wipe surfaces down. Upon removal of masking (supposed n95 surgical type) I blew my nose. The residue on the tissue was not pristine in the least. Dark snotty mess full of particulate. That mask is not saving me from you. It is concentrating any plague matter I exhale in great density upon my face and proximate environment. Perhaps BSL3 suits could contain and reduce plague transmission. A wonderbread size hank of cloth does not. clay I have no pronouns please do not refer to me. > On Jul 6, 2020, at 11:06 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes > wrote: > > I saw this anecdote posted elsewhere, it might give a clue as to why you > can't fix this by asking/requiring the populace to cover their faces: > "Yesterday I witnessed two ladies walking down the street separately, each > wearing a mask, despite being alone. When they reached each other, they > both removed the masks and began catching up." > > Now they both handled their masks, they both likely did not clean their > hands after handling their masks, and will probably touch other stuff > before washing up. And the masks themselves were not allowed to do one bit > of good for anybody, because they uncover their mouths when in the > presence of others. Possible benefit: zero. Possible detriment: nonzero. > > Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Masks
Exactly correct on all points, from scientific viewpoint and "proper" investigation and development. However, world wide, public panic is inflamed, rather than soothed, by conflicting informations and opinions from "people who should know better" than to make statements other than what you just outlined as the normal glacial pace of science. Here, we are now having a second wave of near tsunami size with new infections, or with better testing, newly discovered infections.. The lead / lag between good science and public panic is truly abysmal. On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 1:16 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Six months is an eyeblink in normal infectious disease research. > > At normal research pace, I doubt that's enough time to run a > scientifically valid experiment, write up the results, submit it for > publication and have it reviewed. > > Allan > > > G Mann via Mercedes writes: > > > What impresses me most about covid 19, after now 6 months of endless news > > broadcasts, information releases, and talk by "experts" is: > > > > How little we actually know about the disease, its origin, its short term > > AND long term effects, and how to actually avoid or stop spreading > > infections. > > > > Everyone has opinions.. few have anything that can be remotely called > hard > > fact. > > Most who claim to have hard facts have been found to have BS and > > speculation.. > > If ignorance is bliss... this must be the most blissful time in human > > history.. > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Masks
Six months is an eyeblink in normal infectious disease research. At normal research pace, I doubt that's enough time to run a scientifically valid experiment, write up the results, submit it for publication and have it reviewed. Allan G Mann via Mercedes writes: > What impresses me most about covid 19, after now 6 months of endless news > broadcasts, information releases, and talk by "experts" is: > > How little we actually know about the disease, its origin, its short term > AND long term effects, and how to actually avoid or stop spreading > infections. > > Everyone has opinions.. few have anything that can be remotely called hard > fact. > Most who claim to have hard facts have been found to have BS and > speculation.. > If ignorance is bliss... this must be the most blissful time in human > history.. > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Masks
I've seen hospital potos - they wear head to toe protective gear when operating in a COV 19 ward. If they are tested and learn they're positive, I would assume they would not risk spreading the virus for any surgical procedure.. On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 3:24 PM Max Dillon via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Don, I just have a simple question. Do surgeons who are sick still > continue to perform operations, do they just put in the mask and say to > themselves "This mask will protect the patient from virii I spew from my > nose and mouth"? Is that what they do? > > I'll bet you a dollar they don't, because they know the truth. > > One more simple question. Do the doctors and nurses who test positive for > Wuhan Red Death just put on a mask and go back to work? > > God did not give us a spirit of fear, but a spirit of love. Have faith, > look for truth, use that brain that God gave you. > > Max Dillon > Charleston SC > > Jul 6, 2020 1:15:40 PM OK Don via Mercedes : > > > One more time. Those masks are to protect ME from whatever you are > spewing, > > NOT to protect YOU from incoming particles. > > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 11:20 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > >> Sent from my iPhone___ > >> http://www.okiebenz.com > >> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >> > > -- > > OK Don > > > > "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to > > pause and reflect." Mark Twain > > > > “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.” > Wernher > > Von Braun > > 2013 F150, 18 mpg > > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg > > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Masks
Exactly, Mitch. It’s not just masks or hand washing or isolating - it’s a combination of things that best protects everyone as far as we know at this point. Masks are just one part of the equation. And your later point about the women who meet, remove and handle their masks just reinforces this. One without the other pretty well negates any benefits. -D > On Jul 6, 2020, at 2:42 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes > wrote: > > > That's the wish/theory. > And it seems reasonable that reducing the outgoing air velocity would > reduce transmission. > It would be nice if we had some clinical evidence that it actually worked > that way across any given population. > > There might be countervailing acts at work, like people spreading disease > by handling their masks and not washing their hands. > > One thing we do know makes a difference: > Wash your hands! > Mitch. > > On Mon, July 6, 2020 1:14 pm, OK Don via Mercedes wrote: >> One more time. Those masks are to protect ME from whatever you are >> spewing, NOT to protect YOU from incoming particles. > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Masks
Don, I just have a simple question. Do surgeons who are sick still continue to perform operations, do they just put in the mask and say to themselves "This mask will protect the patient from virii I spew from my nose and mouth"? Is that what they do? I'll bet you a dollar they don't, because they know the truth. One more simple question. Do the doctors and nurses who test positive for Wuhan Red Death just put on a mask and go back to work? God did not give us a spirit of fear, but a spirit of love. Have faith, look for truth, use that brain that God gave you. Max Dillon Charleston SC Jul 6, 2020 1:15:40 PM OK Don via Mercedes : > One more time. Those masks are to protect ME from whatever you are spewing, > NOT to protect YOU from incoming particles. > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 11:20 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> Sent from my iPhone___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > -- > OK Don > > "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to > pause and reflect." Mark Twain > > “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.” Wernher > Von Braun > 2013 F150, 18 mpg > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Masks
I saw this anecdote posted elsewhere, it might give a clue as to why you can't fix this by asking/requiring the populace to cover their faces: "Yesterday I witnessed two ladies walking down the street separately, each wearing a mask, despite being alone. When they reached each other, they both removed the masks and began catching up." Now they both handled their masks, they both likely did not clean their hands after handling their masks, and will probably touch other stuff before washing up. And the masks themselves were not allowed to do one bit of good for anybody, because they uncover their mouths when in the presence of others. Possible benefit: zero. Possible detriment: nonzero. Mitch. On Mon, July 6, 2020 2:52 pm, G Mann via Mercedes wrote: > What impresses me most about covid 19, after now 6 months of endless news > broadcasts, information releases, and talk by "experts" is: > > How little we actually know about the disease, its origin, its short term > AND long term effects, and how to actually avoid or stop spreading > infections. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Masks
What impresses me most about covid 19, after now 6 months of endless news broadcasts, information releases, and talk by "experts" is: How little we actually know about the disease, its origin, its short term AND long term effects, and how to actually avoid or stop spreading infections. Everyone has opinions.. few have anything that can be remotely called hard fact. Most who claim to have hard facts have been found to have BS and speculation.. If ignorance is bliss... this must be the most blissful time in human history.. On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 11:42 AM Mitch Haley via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > That's the wish/theory. > And it seems reasonable that reducing the outgoing air velocity would > reduce transmission. > It would be nice if we had some clinical evidence that it actually worked > that way across any given population. > > There might be countervailing acts at work, like people spreading disease > by handling their masks and not washing their hands. > > One thing we do know makes a difference: > Wash your hands! > Mitch. > > On Mon, July 6, 2020 1:14 pm, OK Don via Mercedes wrote: > > One more time. Those masks are to protect ME from whatever you are > > spewing, NOT to protect YOU from incoming particles. > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Masks
That's the wish/theory. And it seems reasonable that reducing the outgoing air velocity would reduce transmission. It would be nice if we had some clinical evidence that it actually worked that way across any given population. There might be countervailing acts at work, like people spreading disease by handling their masks and not washing their hands. One thing we do know makes a difference: Wash your hands! Mitch. On Mon, July 6, 2020 1:14 pm, OK Don via Mercedes wrote: > One more time. Those masks are to protect ME from whatever you are > spewing, NOT to protect YOU from incoming particles. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Masks
One more time. Those masks are to protect ME from whatever you are spewing, NOT to protect YOU from incoming particles. On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 11:20 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > > Sent from my iPhone___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > -- OK Don "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.” Wernher Von Braun 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Masks
Sent from my iPhone___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
