Re: [MBZ] OT: Dichotomy
Mitchell Haley EA via Mercedes writes: > Back in March I heard they were paying $400 an hour. > Was that wrong, or was that not for working on the NJ State Gov contract? For goodness sake, COBOL is a simple programming language. My first job out of college was with a big consulting firm in Chicago. They taught a group of 20-30 new hires (many without much computer experience) how to program in COBOL in about 4 weeks and then we were shipped out, sitting at 3270 terminals at a client site. They had many groups of fresh college graduates coming through this process every summer. It's not hard to learn for anyone with a programming background. But for $400 an hour I am surprised there are not enough people willing to learn it. The problem with COBOL is that it, and the programming problems it is used for, are boring. Most COBOL programs read records from one file, do something to each record, and write them to another file. Or they print a report. After a while, the challenges are gone. Nothing new or innovative is happening in the COBOL world. So it becomes boring and feels like a dead-end. If they are really paying $400/hr and accept remote work, I might look into it though. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Dichotomy
> Mitchell wrote: > Back in March I heard they were paying $400 an hour. > Was that wrong, or was that not for working on the NJ State Gov > contract? Mitch. Don't know. When the plea went out "NJ needs COBOL programmers!" I looked long enough and deep enough to see they were asking for volunteers to help with the "major overload". I stopped looking then. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Dichotomy
And 240Ds Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 3, 2020, at 10:59 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes > wrote: > > Wife is a former COBOL programmer from years (40?) ago. She’s in the midst > of a project converting systems over from COBOL environment. Lots of > resistance from the owners (COBOL people) even though most of them are on > their way out the door for retirement. > > Atomic attack? COBOL and cockroaches. > > -D > >>> On Jun 3, 2020, at 11:43 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes >>> wrote: >>> >>> They only wanted folks who would work for free. I checked. >> >> Ah, the old "You're not worth keeping around. Even though it turns out we >> need you desperately, you're still not worth paying." >> >> Umm, no, thanks? Maybe it's a Jersey thing. I think I'll stick with the >> theme park! (Also, I never learned COBOL.) >> >> -- Jim >> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Dichotomy
Wife is a former COBOL programmer from years (40?) ago. She’s in the midst of a project converting systems over from COBOL environment. Lots of resistance from the owners (COBOL people) even though most of them are on their way out the door for retirement. Atomic attack? COBOL and cockroaches. -D > On Jun 3, 2020, at 11:43 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes > wrote: > >> They only wanted folks who would work for free. I checked. > > Ah, the old "You're not worth keeping around. Even though it turns out we > need you desperately, you're still not worth paying." > > Umm, no, thanks? Maybe it's a Jersey thing. I think I'll stick with the > theme park! (Also, I never learned COBOL.) > > -- Jim > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Dichotomy
Back in March I heard they were paying $400 an hour. Was that wrong, or was that not for working on the NJ State Gov contract? Mitch. On Wed, June 3, 2020 11:43 am, Jim Cathey via Mercedes wrote: >> They only wanted folks who would work for free. I checked. >> > > Ah, the old "You're not worth keeping around. Even though it turns out > we need you desperately, you're still not worth paying." > > Umm, no, thanks? Maybe it's a Jersey thing. I think I'll stick with the > theme park! (Also, I never learned COBOL.) > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Dichotomy
> They only wanted folks who would work for free. I checked. Ah, the old "You're not worth keeping around. Even though it turns out we need you desperately, you're still not worth paying." Umm, no, thanks? Maybe it's a Jersey thing. I think I'll stick with the theme park! (Also, I never learned COBOL.) -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Dichotomy
Really? Ugh... I was listening to the "Retro Computing Round Table" last night. This topic came up and they espoused that its not the systems themselves being bad that's the problem its that the people tasked with maintaining them were laid off years ago. Those systems have run for decades basically untouched.They also suggested that COBOL will be around for decades into the future, "COBOL will outlive all of us." -Curt On Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 11:05:00 AM EDT, fmiser via Mercedes wrote: > Curt wrote: > Are you going to get a job working in COBOL for the state of > New Jersey? ;) -Curt They only wanted folks who would work for free. I checked. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Dichotomy
> Curt wrote: > Are you going to get a job working in COBOL for the state of > New Jersey? ;) -Curt They only wanted folks who would work for free. I checked. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Dichotomy
> Are you going to get a job working in COBOL for the state of New Jersey? ;) Let's see, COBOL in a chemical dump, or Pascal in a theme park... Decisions, decisions! -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Dichotomy
Are you going to get a job working in COBOL for the state of New Jersey? ;) -Curt On Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 11:56:42 PM EDT, Jim Cathey wrote: > ...with my old TI99/4A. I bet I'm the only guy here, or nearly anywhere, who has programmed the 9900 processor (in assembly language) _not_ using that TI machine! We had one of their development systems in school. I also got a year on that 029 keypunch. I used it for FORTRAN and Pascal. Greenbar paper, baby! Things were a lot of fun back when everything was not the same. Computing today feels a bit like that line from the Blues Brothers: "We've got both kinds, Country _and_ Western." -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Dichotomy
I still have my Atari 1027 daisy wheel printer. Sadly the wheel has crumbled into nothing. Theres a guy who made a 3d printer file that can create a replacement but apparently 3d silicone prints aren't there yet with the required resolution. I'll give it a couple more years. I vividly remember the sound of it printing... -Curt On Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 10:57:25 PM EDT, Dwight Giles via Mercedes wrote: I remember printing my dissertation chapters on a daisy wheel printer. Dwight Giles Jr. Wickford RI On Tue, Jun 2, 2020, 4:48 PM Peter Frederick via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > I remember those days, had to decide if I wanted to buy a computer to do > my thesis or buy a good typewriter to do it, about the same cost (or rough > it and pay a typist). > > My first was an Apple II clone (Laser was the brand, I think) with two > 5.25" floppy drives. Had that for a few years and swapped up to a 286 with > an amber monochrome monitor and two floppy drives by the time I was working > on my PhD. The Department had a HyType daisy wheel printer for final > output, hand fed. Quite chore printing a 90 page document. > > Good old days, eh? Sometimes I think I prefer them, since I have to > battle tomorrow to get the license fixed on some Agilent GC software, > stupid hard drive crashed and I had to re-image the drive (Windows 10 is > just as much a pain in the rear as Windows 286) wiping out my license > file. Naturally, the guy that set it up two years ago got himself fired > and the digital copy he had is nowhere to be found > > Strangely it seems to be only honest people with these issues, the > malevolent hacker types have all sorts of ways around such things > > Peter > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Dichotomy
> ...with my old TI99/4A. I bet I'm the only guy here, or nearly anywhere, who has programmed the 9900 processor (in assembly language) _not_ using that TI machine! We had one of their development systems in school. I also got a year on that 029 keypunch. I used it for FORTRAN and Pascal. Greenbar paper, baby! Things were a lot of fun back when everything was not the same. Computing today feels a bit like that line from the Blues Brothers: "We've got both kinds, Country _and_ Western." -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Dichotomy
I remember printing my dissertation chapters on a daisy wheel printer. Dwight Giles Jr. Wickford RI On Tue, Jun 2, 2020, 4:48 PM Peter Frederick via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > I remember those days, had to decide if I wanted to buy a computer to do > my thesis or buy a good typewriter to do it, about the same cost (or rough > it and pay a typist). > > My first was an Apple II clone (Laser was the brand, I think) with two > 5.25" floppy drives. Had that for a few years and swapped up to a 286 with > an amber monochrome monitor and two floppy drives by the time I was working > on my PhD. The Department had a HyType daisy wheel printer for final > output, hand fed. Quite chore printing a 90 page document. > > Good old days, eh? Sometimes I think I prefer them, since I have to > battle tomorrow to get the license fixed on some Agilent GC software, > stupid hard drive crashed and I had to re-image the drive (Windows 10 is > just as much a pain in the rear as Windows 286) wiping out my license > file. Naturally, the guy that set it up two years ago got himself fired > and the digital copy he had is nowhere to be found > > Strangely it seems to be only honest people with these issues, the > malevolent hacker types have all sorts of ways around such things > > Peter > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Dichotomy
Heathkit H89 all in one, 5MHz 8080, came with GI Bill class. I don't count the Sinclair 2000. On Tue, Jun 2, 2020, 16:48 Peter Frederick via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > I remember those days, had to decide if I wanted to buy a computer to do > my thesis or buy a good typewriter to do it, about the same cost (or rough > it and pay a typist). > > My first was an Apple II clone (Laser was the brand, I think) with two > 5.25" floppy drives. Had that for a few years and swapped up to a 286 with > an amber monochrome monitor and two floppy drives by the time I was working > on my PhD. The Department had a HyType daisy wheel printer for final > output, hand fed. Quite chore printing a 90 page document. > > Good old days, eh? Sometimes I think I prefer them, since I have to > battle tomorrow to get the license fixed on some Agilent GC software, > stupid hard drive crashed and I had to re-image the drive (Windows 10 is > just as much a pain in the rear as Windows 286) wiping out my license > file. Naturally, the guy that set it up two years ago got himself fired > and the digital copy he had is nowhere to be found > > Strangely it seems to be only honest people with these issues, the > malevolent hacker types have all sorts of ways around such things > > Peter > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Dichotomy
I remember those days, had to decide if I wanted to buy a computer to do my thesis or buy a good typewriter to do it, about the same cost (or rough it and pay a typist). My first was an Apple II clone (Laser was the brand, I think) with two 5.25" floppy drives. Had that for a few years and swapped up to a 286 with an amber monochrome monitor and two floppy drives by the time I was working on my PhD. The Department had a HyType daisy wheel printer for final output, hand fed. Quite chore printing a 90 page document. Good old days, eh? Sometimes I think I prefer them, since I have to battle tomorrow to get the license fixed on some Agilent GC software, stupid hard drive crashed and I had to re-image the drive (Windows 10 is just as much a pain in the rear as Windows 286) wiping out my license file. Naturally, the guy that set it up two years ago got himself fired and the digital copy he had is nowhere to be found Strangely it seems to be only honest people with these issues, the malevolent hacker types have all sorts of ways around such things Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] OT: Dichotomy
Last night I spent some time on the heatwave BBS with my old TI99/4A. Its pretty crazy connecting a 43 year old computer to a BBS that (at least purportedly) running on a similar vintage computer. I played a couple door games, good fun. Today I created 6 VMs in Microsoft Azure for my students to connect to. I had to modify my security group to allow each student's IP address and prevent bad-guys from messing with me. I'm finding the dichotomy of the two pretty interesting. Also I've been asking students about their first computer. Considering most of my students are my age or older I find it interesting that I'm in the minority in that we had computers in the 1980s, (we got the TI in '83) most of my students started with computers in the late 1990s... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
