Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[tyee165 via Mercedes]

Back in the day, no cars had cup holders. But they had ashtrays! My truck does 
not have the ashtray but has maybe 8 to 10 cup holders. 


Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Craig via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> Date: 2017-01-03  3:20 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: Mercedes 
Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> Cc: Craig <diese...@pisquared.net> 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs 
On Tue, 3 Jan 2017 20:22:47 + (UTC) Curt Raymond via Mercedes
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I worry that tech like backup cameras and lane sensors and all is just
> going to encourage people to pay less attention when they drive. -Curt

Unfortunately, that is the truth.

Recall that, back in the day, Mercedes Benz automobiles had no cup
holders. The task of the driver was to drive.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[WILTON via Mercedes]

It was interesting to note that my '07 320CDI has a  cup holder in the 
center console.
I actually use it occasionally to "secure" a small bottle of water to sip 
sometimes; 'helps to have SWMBO in right front seat to remove cap and hand 
it to me.  If alone, I leave cap off.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Craig via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: "Craig" <diese...@pisquared.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs



On Tue, 3 Jan 2017 20:22:47 + (UTC) Curt Raymond via Mercedes
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


I worry that tech like backup cameras and lane sensors and all is just
going to encourage people to pay less attention when they drive. -Curt


Unfortunately, that is the truth.

Recall that, back in the day, Mercedes Benz automobiles had no cup
holders. The task of the driver was to drive.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[fmiser via Mercedes]

> OK Don wrote:
>
> We are selling the Passat back (tomorrow)



> I like the backup camera - my neck doesn't
> turn as far nor as easily as it used to.



Curt wrote:

Normally I think they're lame, I can (and have) drive backwards
for miles with my face forward using the mirrors.


Typical car mirrors are pretty lame for that task.  Especially
when turning to the blind side.  I don't know that a camera would
help, though.


However I've seen (so far) 2 uses where a backup camera is
really handy: 1. Hooking to a trailer.


I use the mirrors and get positioned relative to the trailer
sides.  I got good at it years ago and sure don't want the pain of
a new car just for that. :)


2. Backing out of a parking space with a larger vehicle next to you.


Back in, not out.  Problem solved. *grin*

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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[fmiser via Mercedes]

> Randy Bennell wrote:
>
> So, I guess, to play it safe, you should likely drive a newer
> dump truck.



Curley wrote:

A shiny new Pete with lots chrome


Ah...  Now you're talkin'!  Pete 389, texas style bumper, vortex
air cleaners, and lots of chicken lights...  _That's_ a _ride_

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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[MG via Mercedes]

I beg to differ on the coolest wagon part. I do have to say that 
I for one would love to have a 59 Chevy wagon or elcamino for 
that matter. Then I would make it better by putting a 617 engine 
and the transmission into it. Might even get real creative and 
add the complete rear suspension. Now that would be cool! Till 
that happens I will settle for the very close second best.


I know now I get thrown out of the list. :-(

Manfred

Kyle Arola via Mercedes wrote:

I don't care about VW polluting (every manufacturer has probably cheated at
some point) and their pollution is not the reason we chose the buyback.  We
are participating in the buyback for the simple reason that once we receive
our money (we put over 1/2 down) we will be debt free.  As in totally, no
house payment, no land payment, no car payment, or CC payments

We chose the W123 wagon simply because it is the coolest wagon on the road,
Period.  No other wagon comes close. It also has an incredible engine for
longevity when cared for properly.  We did not choose it for it being a
diesel, just a bonus for us as my truck is a diesel (polluting bastard that
is is "ROLL COAL!") and my tractor on the farm is a diesel (Roll Coal
Jr.).

We have to have a station wagon, and the modern wagons suck.  They look
like crap sandwiches.  We rarely travel on the interstate, and local roads
are pretty slow going.  Safety is great in a W123 wagon, for what it is,
and most likely will survive a minor fender bender better than our VW would
have with it's plastic parts and exploding airbags.

I cannot speak for others participating in the buyback, but there are other
concerns as well.  Long term support, parts availability, EPA approved fix,
and dealer support.  Let alone if the EPA does not approve a fix and you
keep the car and cant register it... Too many questions and easier to get
out now than wait for the hammer.  For my family at least.

Kyle



On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Bingo.  Kyle is one example, trading his modern VW diesel for a 123 diesel
thirty years old.

Which pollutes more?

How many other VW owners will make a similar choice?  Net pollution
generated going up or down?

We haven't even touched on passenger safety.
--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On December 27, 2016 7:50:44 PM EST, Dimitri via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

I agree it's total bs. I mean lets get real here- the current vw
diesels don't smoke or stink. If they don't smoke or stink then they
are polluting a whole lot less than older diesels. And they get like
45-50 mpg which means that less fuel gets consumed which means fewer
greenhouse gases get produced as compared with almost all gas and
probably most hybrid powered vehicles.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Some years ago I went to an interview with EMC. About 5 minutes into the 
interview I realized I didn't want the job so I relaxed and before long the 
question comes up "How do you feel about multitasking?" This was when 
multitasking was a big buzzword and all the rage. I looked the guy right in the 
eye and said "Honestly multitasking is bulls***. I can do one thing well or 
many things poorly and I prefer to do things well." The guy looked like I'd 
just shot his dog.They offered me the job on the first interview.
Of course now plenty of studies have proven that multitasking is pretty much 
total BS but at the time everybody thought it was a great way to get more 
productivity.
I feel the same way in the car, you should be driving.
-Curt

  From: Craig via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Craig <diese...@pisquared.net>
 Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2017 4:20 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs
   
On Tue, 3 Jan 2017 20:22:47 + (UTC) Curt Raymond via Mercedes
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I worry that tech like backup cameras and lane sensors and all is just
> going to encourage people to pay less attention when they drive. -Curt

Unfortunately, that is the truth.

Recall that, back in the day, Mercedes Benz automobiles had no cup
holders. The task of the driver was to drive.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Yeah, it's so challenging to balance the martini glass in my lap while
attempting to drive AND navigate using Scout.

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 4:20 PM, Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On Tue, 3 Jan 2017 20:22:47 + (UTC) Curt Raymond via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
> > I worry that tech like backup cameras and lane sensors and all is just
> > going to encourage people to pay less attention when they drive. -Curt
>
> Unfortunately, that is the truth.
>
> Recall that, back in the day, Mercedes Benz automobiles had no cup
> holders. The task of the driver was to drive.
>
>
> Craig
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 3 Jan 2017 20:22:47 + (UTC) Curt Raymond via Mercedes
 wrote:

> I worry that tech like backup cameras and lane sensors and all is just
> going to encourage people to pay less attention when they drive. -Curt

Unfortunately, that is the truth.

Recall that, back in the day, Mercedes Benz automobiles had no cup
holders. The task of the driver was to drive.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Normally I think they're lame, I can (and have) drive backwards for miles with 
my face forward using the mirrors. However I've seen (so far) 2 uses where a 
backup camera is really handy:
1. Hooking to a trailer. For a bumper pull (receiver pull?) where you can see 
the hitch the backup camera is excellent.
2. Backing out of a parking space with a larger vehicle next to you. I was 
backing Dad's new Jeep Renegade out of a spot with a big van next to us totally 
obscuring my sight line, the backup camera being at the rear of the car with a 
good wide view was quite helpful.
I worry that tech like backup cameras and lane sensors and all is just going to 
encourage people to pay less attention when they drive.
-Curt

  From: OK Don via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: OK Don <okd...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2017 3:11 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs
   
We are selling the Passat back (tomorrow) because they made us an offer
that was just too good to pass up. It is out of warranty and that DSG
tranny is expensive to maintain and repair. We liked the car more than the
Subaru that is replacing it, partly because it is a Diesel, and partly
because it has more acceleration than the Subaru.
That having been said, the Subaru is a competent A to B machine, and has
most of the new gizmos that will make driving easier for us and possibly
safer for those around us. I like the backup camera - my neck doesn't turn
as far nor as easily as it used to. The cross traffic sensors in the rear
bumper can see cars coming much before I can.

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 11:06 AM, Kyle Arola via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> 
> I cannot speak for others participating in the buyback, but there are other
> concerns as well.  Long term support, parts availability, EPA approved fix,
> and dealer support.  Let alone if the EPA does not approve a fix and you
> keep the car and cant register it... Too many questions and easier to get
> out now than wait for the hammer.  For my family at least.
>
> Kyle
>
>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[OK Don via Mercedes]

We are selling the Passat back (tomorrow) because they made us an offer
that was just too good to pass up. It is out of warranty and that DSG
tranny is expensive to maintain and repair. We liked the car more than the
Subaru that is replacing it, partly because it is a Diesel, and partly
because it has more acceleration than the Subaru.
That having been said, the Subaru is a competent A to B machine, and has
most of the new gizmos that will make driving easier for us and possibly
safer for those around us. I like the backup camera - my neck doesn't turn
as far nor as easily as it used to. The cross traffic sensors in the rear
bumper can see cars coming much before I can.

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 11:06 AM, Kyle Arola via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> 
> I cannot speak for others participating in the buyback, but there are other
> concerns as well.  Long term support, parts availability, EPA approved fix,
> and dealer support.  Let alone if the EPA does not approve a fix and you
> keep the car and cant register it... Too many questions and easier to get
> out now than wait for the hammer.  For my family at least.
>
> Kyle
>
>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

A shiny new Pete with lots chrome


Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
January 3, 2017 at 1:54 PM
The Smart car does ok on the first impact with its strong cage and 
multiple air bags.
However, I recall watching a test video and my recollection is that it 
bounced like a basketball a number of times and the air bags would 
have been deflated by then.
There is no real substitute for size and weight. Smaller new cars may 
protect one better than bigger old cars but I suggest that bigger new 
cars are still safer than smaller new cars for the most part.


So, I guess, to play it safe, you should likely drive a newer dump truck.

RB



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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

The Smart car does ok on the first impact with its strong cage and 
multiple air bags.
However, I recall watching a test video and my recollection is that it 
bounced like a basketball a number of times and the air bags would have 
been deflated by then.
There is no real substitute for size and weight. Smaller new cars may 
protect one better than bigger old cars but I suggest that bigger new 
cars are still safer than smaller new cars for the most part.


So, I guess, to play it safe, you should likely drive a newer dump truck.

RB


On 03/01/2017 1:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

In that vein, the tiny but cubiform Smart car is remarkably adept at
protecting occupants during a severe crash.  Several videos here:

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Smart+car+crash+test=detail=6A867B17FBE4D2B892BF6A867B17FBE4D2B892BF=VIRE

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


You're still missing the point, take something like a mid '60s luxo barge
and crash it at 60 mph into the VW. That '60s car is way heavier but all
the force of the accident is transmitted into the passengers, the VW
passengers might be hurt but they'll be much less dead that the passengers
of the bigger vehicle.
5th Gear explained this pretty well: https://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=HCecdOBCFjI
-Curt

   From: Kyle Arola <kylearola1...@gmail.com>
  To: Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; Mercedes Discussion List <
mercedes@okiebenz.com>
  Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2017 12:22 PM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

I understand that point, but a heaver car is more likely to survive than a
Yugo type car.  The VW is a Yugo type car.  If I was so worried about
getting in an accident I would only drive My F-250.

Kyle

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 12:09 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

Worrying about the car surviving an accident is backwards. The car dies in
an accident so that the passengers might survive. In an accident energy
MUST go somewhere, you want the car to take that energy, not you...
-Curt

   From: Kyle Arola via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
  To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Kyle Arola <kylearola1...@gmail.com>
  Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2017 12:06 PM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

I don't care about VW polluting (every manufacturer has probably cheated at
some point) and their pollution is not the reason we chose the buyback.  We
are participating in the buyback for the simple reason that once we receive
our money (we put over 1/2 down) we will be debt free.  As in totally, no
house payment, no land payment, no car payment, or CC payments

We chose the W123 wagon simply because it is the coolest wagon on the road,
Period.  No other wagon comes close. It also has an incredible engine for
longevity when cared for properly.  We did not choose it for it being a
diesel, just a bonus for us as my truck is a diesel (polluting bastard that
is is "ROLL COAL!") and my tractor on the farm is a diesel (Roll Coal
Jr.).

We have to have a station wagon, and the modern wagons suck.  They look
like crap sandwiches.  We rarely travel on the interstate, and local roads
are pretty slow going.  Safety is great in a W123 wagon, for what it is,
and most likely will survive a minor fender bender better than our VW would
have with it's plastic parts and exploding airbags.

I cannot speak for others participating in the buyback, but there are other
concerns as well.  Long term support, parts availability, EPA approved fix,
and dealer support.  Let alone if the EPA does not approve a fix and you
keep the car and cant register it... Too many questions and easier to get
out now than wait for the hammer.  For my family at least.

Kyle



On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Bingo.  Kyle is one example, trading his modern VW diesel for a 123

diesel

thirty years old.

Which pollutes more?

How many other VW owners will make a similar choice?  Net pollution
generated going up or down?

We haven't even touched on passenger safety.
--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On December 27, 2016 7:50:44 PM EST, Dimitri via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

I agree it's total bs. I mean lets get real here- the current vw
diesels don't smoke or stink. If they don't smoke or stink then they
are polluting a whole lot less than older diesels. And they get like
45-50 mpg which means that less fuel gets consumed which means fewer
greenhouse gases get produced as compared with almost all gas and
probably most hybrid powered vehicles.


__ _
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To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go

Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

In that vein, the tiny but cubiform Smart car is remarkably adept at
protecting occupants during a severe crash.  Several videos here:

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Smart+car+crash+test=detail=6A867B17FBE4D2B892BF6A867B17FBE4D2B892BF=VIRE

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> You're still missing the point, take something like a mid '60s luxo barge
> and crash it at 60 mph into the VW. That '60s car is way heavier but all
> the force of the accident is transmitted into the passengers, the VW
> passengers might be hurt but they'll be much less dead that the passengers
> of the bigger vehicle.
> 5th Gear explained this pretty well: https://www.youtube.com/
> watch?v=HCecdOBCFjI
> -Curt
>
>   From: Kyle Arola <kylearola1...@gmail.com>
>  To: Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; Mercedes Discussion List <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>  Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2017 12:22 PM
>  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs
>
> I understand that point, but a heaver car is more likely to survive than a
> Yugo type car.  The VW is a Yugo type car.  If I was so worried about
> getting in an accident I would only drive My F-250.
>
> Kyle
>
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 12:09 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> Worrying about the car surviving an accident is backwards. The car dies in
> an accident so that the passengers might survive. In an accident energy
> MUST go somewhere, you want the car to take that energy, not you...
> -Curt
>
>   From: Kyle Arola via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>  To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: Kyle Arola <kylearola1...@gmail.com>
>  Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2017 12:06 PM
>  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs
>
> I don't care about VW polluting (every manufacturer has probably cheated at
> some point) and their pollution is not the reason we chose the buyback.  We
> are participating in the buyback for the simple reason that once we receive
> our money (we put over 1/2 down) we will be debt free.  As in totally, no
> house payment, no land payment, no car payment, or CC payments
>
> We chose the W123 wagon simply because it is the coolest wagon on the road,
> Period.  No other wagon comes close. It also has an incredible engine for
> longevity when cared for properly.  We did not choose it for it being a
> diesel, just a bonus for us as my truck is a diesel (polluting bastard that
> is is "ROLL COAL!") and my tractor on the farm is a diesel (Roll Coal
> Jr.).
>
> We have to have a station wagon, and the modern wagons suck.  They look
> like crap sandwiches.  We rarely travel on the interstate, and local roads
> are pretty slow going.  Safety is great in a W123 wagon, for what it is,
> and most likely will survive a minor fender bender better than our VW would
> have with it's plastic parts and exploding airbags.
>
> I cannot speak for others participating in the buyback, but there are other
> concerns as well.  Long term support, parts availability, EPA approved fix,
> and dealer support.  Let alone if the EPA does not approve a fix and you
> keep the car and cant register it... Too many questions and easier to get
> out now than wait for the hammer.  For my family at least.
>
> Kyle
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Bingo.  Kyle is one example, trading his modern VW diesel for a 123
> diesel
> > thirty years old.
> >
> > Which pollutes more?
> >
> > How many other VW owners will make a similar choice?  Net pollution
> > generated going up or down?
> >
> > We haven't even touched on passenger safety.
> > --
> > Max Dillon
> > Charleston SC
> > '87 300TD
> > '95 E300
> >
> > On December 27, 2016 7:50:44 PM EST, Dimitri via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >I agree it's total bs. I mean lets get real here- the current vw
> > >diesels don't smoke or stink. If they don't smoke or stink then they
> > >are polluting a whole lot less than older diesels. And they get like
> > >45-50 mpg which means that less fuel gets consumed which means fewer
> > >greenhouse gases get produced as compared with almost all gas and
> > >probably most hybrid powered vehicles.
> > >
> >
> > __ _
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/ archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery o

Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

You're still missing the point, take something like a mid '60s luxo barge and 
crash it at 60 mph into the VW. That '60s car is way heavier but all the force 
of the accident is transmitted into the passengers, the VW passengers might be 
hurt but they'll be much less dead that the passengers of the bigger vehicle.
5th Gear explained this pretty well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCecdOBCFjI
-Curt

  From: Kyle Arola <kylearola1...@gmail.com>
 To: Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; Mercedes Discussion List 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
 Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2017 12:22 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs
   
I understand that point, but a heaver car is more likely to survive than a Yugo 
type car.  The VW is a Yugo type car.  If I was so worried about getting in an 
accident I would only drive My F-250.

Kyle

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 12:09 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

Worrying about the car surviving an accident is backwards. The car dies in an 
accident so that the passengers might survive. In an accident energy MUST go 
somewhere, you want the car to take that energy, not you...
-Curt

      From: Kyle Arola via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Kyle Arola <kylearola1...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2017 12:06 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

I don't care about VW polluting (every manufacturer has probably cheated at
some point) and their pollution is not the reason we chose the buyback.  We
are participating in the buyback for the simple reason that once we receive
our money (we put over 1/2 down) we will be debt free.  As in totally, no
house payment, no land payment, no car payment, or CC payments

We chose the W123 wagon simply because it is the coolest wagon on the road,
Period.  No other wagon comes close. It also has an incredible engine for
longevity when cared for properly.  We did not choose it for it being a
diesel, just a bonus for us as my truck is a diesel (polluting bastard that
is is "ROLL COAL!") and my tractor on the farm is a diesel (Roll Coal
Jr.).

We have to have a station wagon, and the modern wagons suck.  They look
like crap sandwiches.  We rarely travel on the interstate, and local roads
are pretty slow going.  Safety is great in a W123 wagon, for what it is,
and most likely will survive a minor fender bender better than our VW would
have with it's plastic parts and exploding airbags.

I cannot speak for others participating in the buyback, but there are other
concerns as well.  Long term support, parts availability, EPA approved fix,
and dealer support.  Let alone if the EPA does not approve a fix and you
keep the car and cant register it... Too many questions and easier to get
out now than wait for the hammer.  For my family at least.

Kyle



On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Bingo.  Kyle is one example, trading his modern VW diesel for a 123 diesel
> thirty years old.
>
> Which pollutes more?
>
> How many other VW owners will make a similar choice?  Net pollution
> generated going up or down?
>
> We haven't even touched on passenger safety.
> --
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
>
> On December 27, 2016 7:50:44 PM EST, Dimitri via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >I agree it's total bs. I mean lets get real here- the current vw
> >diesels don't smoke or stink. If they don't smoke or stink then they
> >are polluting a whole lot less than older diesels. And they get like
> >45-50 mpg which means that less fuel gets consumed which means fewer
> >greenhouse gases get produced as compared with almost all gas and
> >probably most hybrid powered vehicles.
> >
>
> __ _
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/ archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/ mailman/listinfo/mercedes_ okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Kyle Arola via Mercedes]

I understand that point, but a heaver car is more likely to survive than a
Yugo type car.  The VW is a Yugo type car.  If I was so worried about
getting in an accident I would only drive My F-250.

Kyle

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 12:09 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Worrying about the car surviving an accident is backwards. The car dies in
> an accident so that the passengers might survive. In an accident energy
> MUST go somewhere, you want the car to take that energy, not you...
> -Curt
>
>   From: Kyle Arola via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>  To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: Kyle Arola <kylearola1...@gmail.com>
>  Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2017 12:06 PM
>  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs
>
> I don't care about VW polluting (every manufacturer has probably cheated at
> some point) and their pollution is not the reason we chose the buyback.  We
> are participating in the buyback for the simple reason that once we receive
> our money (we put over 1/2 down) we will be debt free.  As in totally, no
> house payment, no land payment, no car payment, or CC payments
>
> We chose the W123 wagon simply because it is the coolest wagon on the road,
> Period.  No other wagon comes close. It also has an incredible engine for
> longevity when cared for properly.  We did not choose it for it being a
> diesel, just a bonus for us as my truck is a diesel (polluting bastard that
> is is "ROLL COAL!") and my tractor on the farm is a diesel (Roll Coal
> Jr.).
>
> We have to have a station wagon, and the modern wagons suck.  They look
> like crap sandwiches.  We rarely travel on the interstate, and local roads
> are pretty slow going.  Safety is great in a W123 wagon, for what it is,
> and most likely will survive a minor fender bender better than our VW would
> have with it's plastic parts and exploding airbags.
>
> I cannot speak for others participating in the buyback, but there are other
> concerns as well.  Long term support, parts availability, EPA approved fix,
> and dealer support.  Let alone if the EPA does not approve a fix and you
> keep the car and cant register it... Too many questions and easier to get
> out now than wait for the hammer.  For my family at least.
>
> Kyle
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Bingo.  Kyle is one example, trading his modern VW diesel for a 123
> diesel
> > thirty years old.
> >
> > Which pollutes more?
> >
> > How many other VW owners will make a similar choice?  Net pollution
> > generated going up or down?
> >
> > We haven't even touched on passenger safety.
> > --
> > Max Dillon
> > Charleston SC
> > '87 300TD
> > '95 E300
> >
> > On December 27, 2016 7:50:44 PM EST, Dimitri via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >I agree it's total bs. I mean lets get real here- the current vw
> > >diesels don't smoke or stink. If they don't smoke or stink then they
> > >are polluting a whole lot less than older diesels. And they get like
> > >45-50 mpg which means that less fuel gets consumed which means fewer
> > >greenhouse gases get produced as compared with almost all gas and
> > >probably most hybrid powered vehicles.
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
>
>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Worrying about the car surviving an accident is backwards. The car dies in an 
accident so that the passengers might survive. In an accident energy MUST go 
somewhere, you want the car to take that energy, not you...
-Curt

  From: Kyle Arola via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Kyle Arola <kylearola1...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2017 12:06 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs
   
I don't care about VW polluting (every manufacturer has probably cheated at
some point) and their pollution is not the reason we chose the buyback.  We
are participating in the buyback for the simple reason that once we receive
our money (we put over 1/2 down) we will be debt free.  As in totally, no
house payment, no land payment, no car payment, or CC payments

We chose the W123 wagon simply because it is the coolest wagon on the road,
Period.  No other wagon comes close. It also has an incredible engine for
longevity when cared for properly.  We did not choose it for it being a
diesel, just a bonus for us as my truck is a diesel (polluting bastard that
is is "ROLL COAL!") and my tractor on the farm is a diesel (Roll Coal
Jr.).

We have to have a station wagon, and the modern wagons suck.  They look
like crap sandwiches.  We rarely travel on the interstate, and local roads
are pretty slow going.  Safety is great in a W123 wagon, for what it is,
and most likely will survive a minor fender bender better than our VW would
have with it's plastic parts and exploding airbags.

I cannot speak for others participating in the buyback, but there are other
concerns as well.  Long term support, parts availability, EPA approved fix,
and dealer support.  Let alone if the EPA does not approve a fix and you
keep the car and cant register it... Too many questions and easier to get
out now than wait for the hammer.  For my family at least.

Kyle



On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Bingo.  Kyle is one example, trading his modern VW diesel for a 123 diesel
> thirty years old.
>
> Which pollutes more?
>
> How many other VW owners will make a similar choice?  Net pollution
> generated going up or down?
>
> We haven't even touched on passenger safety.
> --
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
>
> On December 27, 2016 7:50:44 PM EST, Dimitri via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >I agree it's total bs. I mean lets get real here- the current vw
> >diesels don't smoke or stink. If they don't smoke or stink then they
> >are polluting a whole lot less than older diesels. And they get like
> >45-50 mpg which means that less fuel gets consumed which means fewer
> >greenhouse gases get produced as compared with almost all gas and
> >probably most hybrid powered vehicles.
> >
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Kyle Arola via Mercedes]

I don't care about VW polluting (every manufacturer has probably cheated at
some point) and their pollution is not the reason we chose the buyback.  We
are participating in the buyback for the simple reason that once we receive
our money (we put over 1/2 down) we will be debt free.  As in totally, no
house payment, no land payment, no car payment, or CC payments

We chose the W123 wagon simply because it is the coolest wagon on the road,
Period.  No other wagon comes close. It also has an incredible engine for
longevity when cared for properly.  We did not choose it for it being a
diesel, just a bonus for us as my truck is a diesel (polluting bastard that
is is "ROLL COAL!") and my tractor on the farm is a diesel (Roll Coal
Jr.).

We have to have a station wagon, and the modern wagons suck.  They look
like crap sandwiches.  We rarely travel on the interstate, and local roads
are pretty slow going.  Safety is great in a W123 wagon, for what it is,
and most likely will survive a minor fender bender better than our VW would
have with it's plastic parts and exploding airbags.

I cannot speak for others participating in the buyback, but there are other
concerns as well.  Long term support, parts availability, EPA approved fix,
and dealer support.  Let alone if the EPA does not approve a fix and you
keep the car and cant register it... Too many questions and easier to get
out now than wait for the hammer.  For my family at least.

Kyle



On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Bingo.  Kyle is one example, trading his modern VW diesel for a 123 diesel
> thirty years old.
>
> Which pollutes more?
>
> How many other VW owners will make a similar choice?  Net pollution
> generated going up or down?
>
> We haven't even touched on passenger safety.
> --
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
>
> On December 27, 2016 7:50:44 PM EST, Dimitri via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >I agree it's total bs. I mean lets get real here- the current vw
> >diesels don't smoke or stink. If they don't smoke or stink then they
> >are polluting a whole lot less than older diesels. And they get like
> >45-50 mpg which means that less fuel gets consumed which means fewer
> >greenhouse gases get produced as compared with almost all gas and
> >probably most hybrid powered vehicles.
> >
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Bingo.  Kyle is one example, trading his modern VW diesel for a 123 diesel 
thirty years old.

Which pollutes more?

How many other VW owners will make a similar choice?  Net pollution generated 
going up or down?  

We haven't even touched on passenger safety.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On December 27, 2016 7:50:44 PM EST, Dimitri via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>I agree it's total bs. I mean lets get real here- the current vw
>diesels don't smoke or stink. If they don't smoke or stink then they
>are polluting a whole lot less than older diesels. And they get like
>45-50 mpg which means that less fuel gets consumed which means fewer
>greenhouse gases get produced as compared with almost all gas and
>probably most hybrid powered vehicles. 
>

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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[MG via Mercedes]

That's what the older Dodge pickups sound like. Like a real 
truck. A good sound, for a truck but not that good for a car.
Like you I like the sound of the 617 much better in a car, though 
an older Jetta or Rabbit are also nice for a small car.


OK Don via Mercedes wrote:

Wait a minute here - the Diesel noise is part of the charm of a Diesel -
our VW lacks that, and is one of my main complaints about it. I think the
OM7617 is about optimum of the MBs I've driven. I've never knowingly heard
a 6BT - - -

On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


I'd never been impressed with the noise levels of the Cummins. Then last
week I crossed the street in front of one and considered it to be very
quiet, clearly something has changed on the newest generation.
Side note: apparently Cummins is about to release a 50 state legal 4cyl
diesel specifically for use in Jeeps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=I6H5dM-hxdU
Looks pretty cool, competition for the TDI swap...
-Curt







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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Wait a minute here - the Diesel noise is part of the charm of a Diesel -
our VW lacks that, and is one of my main complaints about it. I think the
OM7617 is about optimum of the MBs I've driven. I've never knowingly heard
a 6BT - - -

On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I'd never been impressed with the noise levels of the Cummins. Then last
> week I crossed the street in front of one and considered it to be very
> quiet, clearly something has changed on the newest generation.
> Side note: apparently Cummins is about to release a 50 state legal 4cyl
> diesel specifically for use in Jeeps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?
> v=I6H5dM-hxdU
> Looks pretty cool, competition for the TDI swap...
> -Curt
>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Yea they do seem nice I have driven several of them 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 30, 2016, at 8:35 AM, Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Only in the Grand Cherokee, the 4cyl is for the Wrangler.
> The eco diesel drives really nice, quiet and felt as powerful as the 5.7l 
> gasser. Not bad for a 3l v6.
> 
> 
> Curt
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> 
> On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 9:27 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> They already have a diesel for the jeeps and 1/2 trucks, the ecodiesel as 
> they call it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Dec 29, 2016, at 11:47 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
> > <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > 
> > Cummins motors have been electronically injected and therefore relatively
> > quiet for a decade or more. Doesn't make much sense to compare mechanical
> > motors to electronically injected ones, of any make.
> > 
> > On Dec 29, 2016 1:07 PM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > I'd never been impressed with the noise levels of the Cummins. Then last
> > week I crossed the street in front of one and considered it to be very
> > quiet, clearly something has changed on the newest generation.
> > Side note: apparently Cummins is about to release a 50 state legal 4cyl
> > diesel specifically for use in Jeeps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?
> > v=I6H5dM-hxdU
> > Looks pretty cool, competition for the TDI swap...
> > -Curt
> > 
> > 
> >  From: Curley McLain via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > Cc: Curley McLain <126die...@gmail.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2016 1:46 PM
> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs
> > 
> > I was saying the GM isuzi is quieter than the old GM 8 cyl DIesels.
> > The new cummins (as delivered to the stealer) are very quiet compared to
> > the older ones also.
> > 
> >> Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >> December 29, 2016 at 10:47 AM
> >> Begging to differ on the noise issue. My mechanical injection 6bt is
> >> louder
> >> by far than a 6.2.
> >> 
> > 
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > 
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > 
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
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> > 
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> > 
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> > 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Only in the Grand Cherokee, the 4cyl is for the Wrangler.The eco diesel drives 
really nice, quiet and felt as powerful as the 5.7l gasser. Not bad for a 3l v6.

Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 9:27 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via 
Mercedes<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:   They already have a diesel for the 
jeeps and 1/2 trucks, the ecodiesel as they call it.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 29, 2016, at 11:47 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> Cummins motors have been electronically injected and therefore relatively
> quiet for a decade or more. Doesn't make much sense to compare mechanical
> motors to electronically injected ones, of any make.
> 
> On Dec 29, 2016 1:07 PM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> wrote:
> 
> I'd never been impressed with the noise levels of the Cummins. Then last
> week I crossed the street in front of one and considered it to be very
> quiet, clearly something has changed on the newest generation.
> Side note: apparently Cummins is about to release a 50 state legal 4cyl
> diesel specifically for use in Jeeps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?
> v=I6H5dM-hxdU
> Looks pretty cool, competition for the TDI swap...
> -Curt
> 
> 
>      From: Curley McLain via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: Curley McLain <126die...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2016 1:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs
> 
> I was saying the GM isuzi is quieter than the old GM 8 cyl DIesels.
> The new cummins (as delivered to the stealer) are very quiet compared to
> the older ones also.
> 
>> Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> December 29, 2016 at 10:47 AM
>> Begging to differ on the noise issue. My mechanical injection 6bt is
>> louder
>> by far than a 6.2.
>> 
> 
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> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

They already have a diesel for the jeeps and 1/2 trucks, the ecodiesel as they 
call it.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 29, 2016, at 11:47 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> Cummins motors have been electronically injected and therefore relatively
> quiet for a decade or more. Doesn't make much sense to compare mechanical
> motors to electronically injected ones, of any make.
> 
> On Dec 29, 2016 1:07 PM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> wrote:
> 
> I'd never been impressed with the noise levels of the Cummins. Then last
> week I crossed the street in front of one and considered it to be very
> quiet, clearly something has changed on the newest generation.
> Side note: apparently Cummins is about to release a 50 state legal 4cyl
> diesel specifically for use in Jeeps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?
> v=I6H5dM-hxdU
> Looks pretty cool, competition for the TDI swap...
> -Curt
> 
> 
>  From: Curley McLain via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: Curley McLain <126die...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2016 1:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs
> 
> I was saying the GM isuzi is quieter than the old GM 8 cyl DIesels.
> The new cummins (as delivered to the stealer) are very quiet compared to
> the older ones also.
> 
>> Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> December 29, 2016 at 10:47 AM
>> Begging to differ on the noise issue. My mechanical injection 6bt is
>> louder
>> by far than a 6.2.
>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Cummins motors have been electronically injected and therefore relatively
quiet for a decade or more. Doesn't make much sense to compare mechanical
motors to electronically injected ones, of any make.

On Dec 29, 2016 1:07 PM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
wrote:

I'd never been impressed with the noise levels of the Cummins. Then last
week I crossed the street in front of one and considered it to be very
quiet, clearly something has changed on the newest generation.
Side note: apparently Cummins is about to release a 50 state legal 4cyl
diesel specifically for use in Jeeps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=I6H5dM-hxdU
Looks pretty cool, competition for the TDI swap...
-Curt


  From: Curley McLain via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Curley McLain <126die...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2016 1:46 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

I was saying the GM isuzi is quieter than the old GM 8 cyl DIesels.
The new cummins (as delivered to the stealer) are very quiet compared to
the older ones also.

> Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> December 29, 2016 at 10:47 AM
> Begging to differ on the noise issue. My mechanical injection 6bt is
> louder
> by far than a 6.2.
>

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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I'd never been impressed with the noise levels of the Cummins. Then last week I 
crossed the street in front of one and considered it to be very quiet, clearly 
something has changed on the newest generation.
Side note: apparently Cummins is about to release a 50 state legal 4cyl diesel 
specifically for use in Jeeps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6H5dM-hxdU
Looks pretty cool, competition for the TDI swap...
-Curt


  From: Curley McLain via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Curley McLain <126die...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2016 1:46 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs
   
I was saying the GM isuzi is quieter than the old GM 8 cyl DIesels.    
The new cummins (as delivered to the stealer) are very quiet compared to 
the older ones also.

> Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> December 29, 2016 at 10:47 AM
> Begging to differ on the noise issue. My mechanical injection 6bt is 
> louder
> by far than a 6.2.
>

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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

I was saying the GM isuzi is quieter than the old GM 8 cyl DIesels.
The new cummins (as delivered to the stealer) are very quiet compared to 
the older ones also.



Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
December 29, 2016 at 10:47 AM
Begging to differ on the noise issue. My mechanical injection 6bt is 
louder

by far than a 6.2.



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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Begging to differ on the noise issue. My mechanical injection 6bt is louder
by far than a 6.2.

On Dec 28, 2016 9:54 PM, "Curley McLain via Mercedes" 
wrote:

Good on ye!  (I don't want any)

If I needed a Diesel PU, I'd buy one with a 6BT.   I guess the GM/Isuzu is
ok.  They are much quieter than the old GM POS engines.  But with the
cummins, you know you are getting a solid engine.  Ol Clessie raced a
Dissel  at indy a hundred years ago.

> Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
> December 28, 2016 at 11:37 PM
>
> The 6.2 motors are still going strong. Good economy also.
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Yes, and the 6.5 except for the occasional IP issue.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 28, 2016, at 11:37 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> The 6.2 motors are still going strong. Good economy also.
> 
> On Dec 28, 2016 7:07 AM, "Curley McLain via Mercedes" 
> wrote:
> 
>> I think they had at least as many failure modes as cylinders.  They were
>> truly awful engines.  Yes, by the end of the run GM had modified them
>> enough to keep more than 50% together for at least 100k miles.   With a
>> real fuel filter, many ran well beyond that toward the end of the run.  But
>> compare that to the 4BT or 6BT that were contemporary.  (or the OM617)
>> 
>> Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>>> December 28, 2016 at 7:42 AM
>>> I've never heard of bearing failure as a limitation of those engines. The
>>> head bolts were inadequate which caused early head gasket failure. If
>>> bearings failed it'd be from coolant in the engine...
>>> 
>>> Curt
>>> 
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 11:01 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes<
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: I was always under the impression that the
>>> diesel was really just a 4-
>>> bolt main version of the gas engine with a deeper casting on the
>>> bottom end, but I may be wrong.
>>> 
>>> Rear main wasn't adequate at all, the original was pretty much going
>>> to spin it sooner or later, and sooner was about 25,000 miles.
>>> 
>>> Peter
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>>> December 27, 2016 at 10:01 PM
>>> I was always under the impression that the diesel was really just a
>>> 4-bolt main version of the gas engine with a deeper casting on the bottom
>>> end, but I may be wrong.
>>> 
>>> Rear main wasn't adequate at all, the original was pretty much going to
>>> spin it sooner or later, and sooner was about 25,000 miles.
>>> 
>>> Peter
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> Curley McLain 
>>> December 27, 2016 at 6:40 PM
>>> that is the GM line.  Either way, the olsmodissel (and caddydissel) was a
>>> POS and ruined the availability and image of Diesel engines for cars and
>>> pickups in the USA forever.
>>> 
>>> It just happened to be the same overall dimensions and bore and stroke as
>>> the vergasser, and was specifically designed to be made on the same line
>>> with the vergassers.  It was NOT a clean sheet of paper design.  The design
>>> started with the 350 vergasser and went around the vergasser assembly line,
>>> procedures and dimensions.   The design ended on the 350 assembly line when
>>> production of the oldsmodissel abortion began.
>>> 
>>> Whether you believe the GM line or not, it was a POS and will be
>>> remembered forever as the engine that ruined the potential of Diesel cars
>>> in the USA forever.
>>> 
>>> VW and the bummster extortion polution association (EPA) ring put the
>>> icing on diesels in this country for the next 40 years.
>>> 
>>> Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>>> December 27, 2016 at 6:24 PM
>>> Yes you are right on about the 5.7. I think the belief that the 5.7
>>> diesel was just a converted gas engine was because it was the same size and
>>> similar block to the 350. It was never converted it was always a diesel
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
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>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> fmiser via Mercedes 
>>> December 27, 2016 at 4:19 PM
>>> 
 Larry wrote:
 
>>> 
>>> Man, we diesel enthusiast just can;t get a break, 1st, back in
 the 70's, GM tried to use gas V8 cranks which broke too soon,
 now,
 
>>> 
>>> Not true.  It was engineered as a diesel, but the bore and stroke
>>> dimensions were the same as the gasoline engine so both could be
>>> machined on the same line.  That diesel block and crank are
>>> sought-after items for high-power gasoline builds.
>>> 
>>> The 

Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[fmiser via Mercedes]

Karl wrote:



The 6.2 motors are still going strong. Good economy also.


Yup.  And they pull about like a 350 gasoline with a 4 barrel
carburetor - but with more than 50% better fuel mileage.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Good on ye!  (I don't want any)

If I needed a Diesel PU, I'd buy one with a 6BT.   I guess the GM/Isuzu 
is ok.  They are much quieter than the old GM POS engines.  But with the 
cummins, you know you are getting a solid engine.  Ol Clessie raced a 
Dissel  at indy a hundred years ago.

Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
December 28, 2016 at 11:37 PM
The 6.2 motors are still going strong. Good economy also.



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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

The 6.2 motors are still going strong. Good economy also.

On Dec 28, 2016 7:07 AM, "Curley McLain via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> I think they had at least as many failure modes as cylinders.  They were
> truly awful engines.  Yes, by the end of the run GM had modified them
> enough to keep more than 50% together for at least 100k miles.   With a
> real fuel filter, many ran well beyond that toward the end of the run.  But
> compare that to the 4BT or 6BT that were contemporary.  (or the OM617)
>
> Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>> December 28, 2016 at 7:42 AM
>> I've never heard of bearing failure as a limitation of those engines. The
>> head bolts were inadequate which caused early head gasket failure. If
>> bearings failed it'd be from coolant in the engine...
>>
>> Curt
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 11:01 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes<
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: I was always under the impression that the
>> diesel was really just a 4-
>> bolt main version of the gas engine with a deeper casting on the
>> bottom end, but I may be wrong.
>>
>> Rear main wasn't adequate at all, the original was pretty much going
>> to spin it sooner or later, and sooner was about 25,000 miles.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
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>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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>>
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>>
>> Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>> December 27, 2016 at 10:01 PM
>> I was always under the impression that the diesel was really just a
>> 4-bolt main version of the gas engine with a deeper casting on the bottom
>> end, but I may be wrong.
>>
>> Rear main wasn't adequate at all, the original was pretty much going to
>> spin it sooner or later, and sooner was about 25,000 miles.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> ___
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>>
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>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>> Curley McLain 
>> December 27, 2016 at 6:40 PM
>> that is the GM line.  Either way, the olsmodissel (and caddydissel) was a
>> POS and ruined the availability and image of Diesel engines for cars and
>> pickups in the USA forever.
>>
>> It just happened to be the same overall dimensions and bore and stroke as
>> the vergasser, and was specifically designed to be made on the same line
>> with the vergassers.  It was NOT a clean sheet of paper design.  The design
>> started with the 350 vergasser and went around the vergasser assembly line,
>> procedures and dimensions.   The design ended on the 350 assembly line when
>> production of the oldsmodissel abortion began.
>>
>> Whether you believe the GM line or not, it was a POS and will be
>> remembered forever as the engine that ruined the potential of Diesel cars
>> in the USA forever.
>>
>> VW and the bummster extortion polution association (EPA) ring put the
>> icing on diesels in this country for the next 40 years.
>>
>> Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>> December 27, 2016 at 6:24 PM
>> Yes you are right on about the 5.7. I think the belief that the 5.7
>> diesel was just a converted gas engine was because it was the same size and
>> similar block to the 350. It was never converted it was always a diesel
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>> fmiser via Mercedes 
>> December 27, 2016 at 4:19 PM
>>
>>> Larry wrote:
>>>
>>
>> Man, we diesel enthusiast just can;t get a break, 1st, back in
>>> the 70's, GM tried to use gas V8 cranks which broke too soon,
>>> now,
>>>
>>
>> Not true.  It was engineered as a diesel, but the bore and stroke
>> dimensions were the same as the gasoline engine so both could be
>> machined on the same line.  That diesel block and crank are
>> sought-after items for high-power gasoline builds.
>>
>> The early engines had problems - including the lack of a water
>> separator for the fuel.  It was typical of GM at the time, put the
>> car on the market before it was really done in engineering and let
>> the early customers be "beta-testers".  After the bugs were worked
>> out, the 5.7L diesel really was pretty good.
>>
>>
>> 

Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

I think they had at least as many failure modes as cylinders.  They were 
truly awful engines.  Yes, by the end of the run GM had modified them 
enough to keep more than 50% together for at least 100k miles.   With a 
real fuel filter, many ran well beyond that toward the end of the run.  
But compare that to the 4BT or 6BT that were contemporary.  (or the OM617)



Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
December 28, 2016 at 7:42 AM
I've never heard of bearing failure as a limitation of those engines. 
The head bolts were inadequate which caused early head gasket failure. 
If bearings failed it'd be from coolant in the engine...


Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 11:01 PM, Peter Frederick via 
Mercedes wrote: I was always under the 
impression that the diesel was really just a 4-

bolt main version of the gas engine with a deeper casting on the
bottom end, but I may be wrong.

Rear main wasn't adequate at all, the original was pretty much going
to spin it sooner or later, and sooner was about 25,000 miles.

Peter

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Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
December 27, 2016 at 10:01 PM
I was always under the impression that the diesel was really just a 
4-bolt main version of the gas engine with a deeper casting on the 
bottom end, but I may be wrong.


Rear main wasn't adequate at all, the original was pretty much going 
to spin it sooner or later, and sooner was about 25,000 miles.


Peter

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Curley McLain 
December 27, 2016 at 6:40 PM
that is the GM line.  Either way, the olsmodissel (and caddydissel) 
was a POS and ruined the availability and image of Diesel engines for 
cars and pickups in the USA forever.


It just happened to be the same overall dimensions and bore and stroke 
as the vergasser, and was specifically designed to be made on the same 
line with the vergassers.  It was NOT a clean sheet of paper design.  
The design started with the 350 vergasser and went around the 
vergasser assembly line, procedures and dimensions.   The design ended 
on the 350 assembly line when production of the oldsmodissel abortion 
began.


Whether you believe the GM line or not, it was a POS and will be 
remembered forever as the engine that ruined the potential of Diesel 
cars in the USA forever.


VW and the bummster extortion polution association (EPA) ring put the 
icing on diesels in this country for the next 40 years.


Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
December 27, 2016 at 6:24 PM
Yes you are right on about the 5.7. I think the belief that the 5.7 
diesel was just a converted gas engine was because it was the same 
size and similar block to the 350. It was never converted it was 
always a diesel


Sent from my iPhone



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fmiser via Mercedes 
December 27, 2016 at 4:19 PM

Larry wrote:



Man, we diesel enthusiast just can;t get a break, 1st, back in
the 70's, GM tried to use gas V8 cranks which broke too soon,
now,


Not true.  It was engineered as a diesel, but the bore and stroke
dimensions were the same as the gasoline engine so both could be
machined on the same line.  That diesel block and crank are
sought-after items for high-power gasoline builds.

The early engines had problems - including the lack of a water
separator for the fuel.  It was typical of GM at the time, put the
car on the market before it was really done in engineering and let
the early customers be "beta-testers".  After the bugs were worked
out, the 5.7L diesel really was pretty good.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I've never heard of bearing failure as a limitation of those engines. The head 
bolts were inadequate which caused early head gasket failure. If bearings 
failed it'd be from coolant in the engine...

Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 11:01 PM, Peter Frederick via 
Mercedes wrote:   I was always under the impression that 
the diesel was really just a 4- 
bolt main version of the gas engine with a deeper casting on the  
bottom end, but I may be wrong.

Rear main wasn't adequate at all, the original was pretty much going  
to spin it sooner or later, and sooner was about 25,000 miles.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

My neighbor's semi tractor has at least one leaky injector (I think it was one
two years ago, now I think it's two or three). 
If he warms it up on a windless day, it fogs up a huge area, and I can smell it
from 300 yards away. It used to clear up when he hit the throttle, but not any
more. 
"I don't drive it enough to be worth fixing". (it's only used to haul harvested
grain crops from the field to his dryer, and from the dryer to town)

Mitch.

> On December 27, 2016 at 11:05 PM Peter Frederick via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hard to fight back when it's obvious you wrote software to fake the  
> testing, eh?
> 
> There was quite a bit of pushback on the regulations, but this is a  
> case of wishes overtaking reality, I think.  There is severe pressure  
> to eliminate diesels due to the particulates anyway (and they are bad,  
> I agree), but the main source of diesel particulates is NOT  
> automotive, it's heavy equipment an old trucks.  One of those ancient  
> farm trucks with a MACK engine produces hundreds of times and much  
> soot on a single gear shift than my Golf does in a month of driving.
> Even my old Volvo, notorious for smoke, wasn't that bad when it was  
> running right.
> 
> Peter
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Other than being tragically underpowered... The OM 617 makes much more power 
for displacement...

There's more misinformation about the GM diesels of the 80s than probably any 
other engines except maybe the Vega...

Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 5:19 PM, fmiser via Mercedes 
wrote:   > Larry wrote:

> Man, we diesel enthusiast just can;t get a break, 1st, back in
> the 70's, GM tried to use gas V8 cranks which broke too soon,
> now,

Not true.  It was engineered as a diesel, but the bore and stroke
dimensions were the same as the gasoline engine so both could be
machined on the same line.  That diesel block and crank are
sought-after items for high-power gasoline builds.

The early engines had problems - including the lack of a water
separator for the fuel.  It was typical of GM at the time, put the
car on the market before it was really done in engineering and let
the early customers be "beta-testers".  After the bugs were worked
out, the 5.7L diesel really was pretty good.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

The macks are nothin compared to Warren Buffet's diesel engines.  Then 
there are the Alter Diesel engines on the rivers.


Most of the smoke I see these days comes from pretty new dogde or frod 
Diesel pickup trucks.  The kids put on straight pipes, chips and turn 
the pumps way up.  They are worse than semi tractors in the 1950s.  
There is probably more particulate and NOX coming out of fairly new 
pickups than all the VW diesels on the road.


I don't see shoveys butchered that way.  Either the scrap metal engine 
can't take it or the japanese engineers made it too difficult to bypass 
or trick the computer.


All of the pollution pales when compared to just one of mother nature's 
belches.   (volcano)


The earph heals.  albore thinks he is way more powerful than he is.  He 
is as insignificant as a mole on a flea's ear.   We are all 
insignificant compared to the powers of God, the earph, mother nature, 
or whoever you decide to worship.



Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
December 27, 2016 at 10:05 PM
Hard to fight back when it's obvious you wrote software to fake the 
testing, eh?


There was quite a bit of pushback on the regulations, but this is a 
case of wishes overtaking reality, I think.  There is severe pressure 
to eliminate diesels due to the particulates anyway (and they are bad, 
I agree), but the main source of diesel particulates is NOT 
automotive, it's heavy equipment an old trucks.  One of those ancient 
farm trucks with a MACK engine produces hundreds of times and much 
soot on a single gear shift than my Golf does in a month of driving.   
Even my old Volvo, notorious for smoke, wasn't that bad when it was 
running right.


Peter


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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Hard to fight back when it's obvious you wrote software to fake the  
testing, eh?


There was quite a bit of pushback on the regulations, but this is a  
case of wishes overtaking reality, I think.  There is severe pressure  
to eliminate diesels due to the particulates anyway (and they are bad,  
I agree), but the main source of diesel particulates is NOT  
automotive, it's heavy equipment an old trucks.  One of those ancient  
farm trucks with a MACK engine produces hundreds of times and much  
soot on a single gear shift than my Golf does in a month of driving.
Even my old Volvo, notorious for smoke, wasn't that bad when it was  
running right.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

I was always under the impression that the diesel was really just a 4- 
bolt main version of the gas engine with a deeper casting on the  
bottom end, but I may be wrong.


Rear main wasn't adequate at all, the original was pretty much going  
to spin it sooner or later, and sooner was about 25,000 miles.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

That 350 Diesel was dying for a turbocharger and variable injection  
timing.  In fixed speed use (pumping stations, for example) it's a  
real workhorse, but in a car it was a serious dog.  Smoky, slow to  
accelerate, but fine once you got it going.


Between water damage to the IP from a non water trapping filter (how  
stupid can you get, eh?), abysmal diesel fuel quality (US diesel is  
generally pretty bad even today, but it was horrible then -- typical  
summer Cetane Index was barely 30 in good fuel) and the tendency of  
the rear main to spin every 30,000 miles or so, most people didn't  
drive it long enough for the heads to crack badly enough to pump  
coolant through the engine.


Crank was too light, bearings were too small, heads very poorly  
designed, fixed injection timing, someone should have finished the  
engineering before they sold it.


Once the beta testing got done, it turned into a decent engine,  
although I still think it has bearing problems -- GM is notorious for  
undersized bearings on cranks, too, and if the gas ones are marginal  
in width, the diesel will be severely undersized on the same cylinder  
spacing.


The bodies rotted away from the drive train on the ones that ran,  
though, I used to see one occasionally as recently as ten years ago.   
Sadly most of them weren't so good.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

It was/is about killing off any possible alternative to electric autos. 
‎Imagine the mileage achievable with a diesel electric hybrid Golf. It's about 
control. When all we have left is windmills and solar panels, you can only 
charge x days a month, etc. It's not about the environment. It's about control 
and consolidation of political power. 

Rick 


It was never about "clean air" it is all about extortion by runaway 
gummit goobers.

> Dimitri via Mercedes 
> December 27, 2016 at 6:50 PM
> I agree it's total bs. I mean lets get real here- the current vw 
> diesels don't smoke or stink. If they don't smoke or stink then they 
> are polluting a whole lot less than older diesels. And they get like 
> 45-50 mpg which means that less fuel gets consumed which means fewer 
> greenhouse gases get produced as compared with almost all gas and 
> probably most hybrid powered vehicles.
‎
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Dimitri via Mercedes]

Good point. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 27, 2016, at 7:52 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> If VW woulda had spine enough to stall until say march, 2017 or july, 2017, 
> for example, the whole deal might have been dropped, and exposed as the 
> extortion/fraud it is.
> 
>> Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>> December 27, 2016 at 6:42 PM
>> Yep
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

It was never about "clean air" it is all about extortion by runaway 
gummit goobers.



Dimitri via Mercedes 
December 27, 2016 at 6:50 PM
I agree it's total bs. I mean lets get real here- the current vw 
diesels don't smoke or stink. If they don't smoke or stink then they 
are polluting a whole lot less than older diesels. And they get like 
45-50 mpg which means that less fuel gets consumed which means fewer 
greenhouse gases get produced as compared with almost all gas and 
probably most hybrid powered vehicles.




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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

If VW woulda had spine enough to stall until say march, 2017 or july, 
2017, for example, the whole deal might have been dropped, and exposed 
as the extortion/fraud it is.



Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
December 27, 2016 at 6:42 PM
Yep

Sent from my iPhone




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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Dimitri via Mercedes]

I agree it's total bs. I mean lets get real here- the current vw diesels don't 
smoke or stink. If they don't smoke or stink then they are polluting a whole 
lot less than older diesels. And they get like 45-50 mpg which means that less 
fuel gets consumed which means fewer greenhouse gases get produced as compared 
with almost all gas and probably most hybrid powered vehicles. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 27, 2016, at 7:41 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> the whole VW Diesel scam by the bumster extortion pollution association (EPA) 
> is much ado about nothing.
> 
> VW shoulda fought back, not just rolled over.
> 
>> Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> December 27, 2016 at 6:25 PM
>> Yep, total piss ignorance.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>> 
>> Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> December 27, 2016 at 5:45 PM
>> "Adequate power for the consumer" is the phrase that pays. My '98 Jetta has 
>> 90hp and is totally adequate, I don't know how much lighter it is than a 
>> gen6 Jetta, considerably I suspect.
>> The "cheater diesels" are 142hp, they haven't said how much they were 
>> detuned during testing. Peter is right the amount they cheated is tiny, I 
>> heard it reported to be "statistically insignificant" and "far less than one 
>> power plant".
>> The repercussions of recalling/replacing all of those cars will cause far 
>> more emissions than just running them.
>> -Curt
>> 
>> 
>> From: Peter Frederick via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> Cc: Peter Frederick <psf...@earthlink.net>
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 1:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs
>> 
>> The cheat was to operate the engine so it passed the NOX and
>> particulate emissions standards ONLY when it was being tested -- when
>> not being tested, emissions were somewhat higher.  The 40X above the
>> limit is misleading, the limit for NOX is very low, so 40 time that
>> isn't much.
>> 
>> When the vehicle was not being tested, it ran higher emissions and
>> PROBABLY had more power.  It also used far less urea solution (the
>> supply is about a liter bottle, I think).  As I said, I don't think
>> those small diesels can meet the standard and have adequate power for
>> the consumer.  Big trucks meet the particulate standards by trapping
>> the soot and adding fuel and air to burn it out.
>> 
>> Peter
>> 
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>> 
>> Peter Frederick via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> December 27, 2016 at 12:06 PM
>> The cheat was to operate the engine so it passed the NOX and particulate 
>> emissions standards ONLY when it was being tested -- when not being tested, 
>> emissions were somewhat higher.  The 40X above the limit is misleading, the 
>> limit for NOX is very low, so 40 time that isn't much.
>> 
>> When the vehicle was not being tested, it ran higher emissions and PROBABLY 
>> had more power.  It also used far less urea solution (the supply is about a 
>> liter bottle, I think).  As I said, I don't think those small diesels can 
>> meet the standard and have adequate power for the consumer.  Big trucks meet 
>> the particulate standards by trapping the soot and adding fuel and air to 
>> burn it out.
>> 
>> Peter
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Yep

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 27, 2016, at 6:41 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> the whole VW Diesel scam by the bumster extortion pollution association (EPA) 
> is much ado about nothing.
> 
> VW shoulda fought back, not just rolled over.
> 
>> Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> December 27, 2016 at 6:25 PM
>> Yep, total piss ignorance.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> December 27, 2016 at 5:45 PM
>> "Adequate power for the consumer" is the phrase that pays. My '98 Jetta has 
>> 90hp and is totally adequate, I don't know how much lighter it is than a 
>> gen6 Jetta, considerably I suspect.
>> The "cheater diesels" are 142hp, they haven't said how much they were 
>> detuned during testing. Peter is right the amount they cheated is tiny, I 
>> heard it reported to be "statistically insignificant" and "far less than one 
>> power plant".
>> The repercussions of recalling/replacing all of those cars will cause far 
>> more emissions than just running them.
>> -Curt
>> 
>> 
>> From: Peter Frederick via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> Cc: Peter Frederick <psf...@earthlink.net>
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 1:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs
>> 
>> The cheat was to operate the engine so it passed the NOX and
>> particulate emissions standards ONLY when it was being tested -- when
>> not being tested, emissions were somewhat higher.  The 40X above the
>> limit is misleading, the limit for NOX is very low, so 40 time that
>> isn't much.
>> 
>> When the vehicle was not being tested, it ran higher emissions and
>> PROBABLY had more power.  It also used far less urea solution (the
>> supply is about a liter bottle, I think).  As I said, I don't think
>> those small diesels can meet the standard and have adequate power for
>> the consumer.  Big trucks meet the particulate standards by trapping
>> the soot and adding fuel and air to burn it out.
>> 
>> Peter
>> 
>> ___
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>> Peter Frederick via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> December 27, 2016 at 12:06 PM
>> The cheat was to operate the engine so it passed the NOX and particulate 
>> emissions standards ONLY when it was being tested -- when not being tested, 
>> emissions were somewhat higher.  The 40X above the limit is misleading, the 
>> limit for NOX is very low, so 40 time that isn't much.
>> 
>> When the vehicle was not being tested, it ran higher emissions and PROBABLY 
>> had more power.  It also used far less urea solution (the supply is about a 
>> liter bottle, I think).  As I said, I don't think those small diesels can 
>> meet the standard and have adequate power for the consumer.  Big trucks meet 
>> the particulate standards by trapping the soot and adding fuel and air to 
>> burn it out.
>> 
>> Peter
>> 
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>> Mitch Haley via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> December 27, 2016 at 11:42 AM
>> I thought the cheat was to determine when emissions testing was in progress, 
>> and
>> reduce the maximum power during testing?
>> 
>> Are you saying that t

Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

the whole VW Diesel scam by the bumster extortion pollution association 
(EPA) is much ado about nothing.


VW shoulda fought back, not just rolled over.


Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
December 27, 2016 at 6:25 PM
Yep, total piss ignorance.

Sent from my iPhone



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Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
December 27, 2016 at 5:45 PM
"Adequate power for the consumer" is the phrase that pays. My '98 
Jetta has 90hp and is totally adequate, I don't know how much lighter 
it is than a gen6 Jetta, considerably I suspect.
The "cheater diesels" are 142hp, they haven't said how much they were 
detuned during testing. Peter is right the amount they cheated is 
tiny, I heard it reported to be "statistically insignificant" and "far 
less than one power plant".
The repercussions of recalling/replacing all of those cars will cause 
far more emissions than just running them.

-Curt


From: Peter Frederick via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Peter Frederick <psf...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

The cheat was to operate the engine so it passed the NOX and
particulate emissions standards ONLY when it was being tested -- when
not being tested, emissions were somewhat higher.  The 40X above the
limit is misleading, the limit for NOX is very low, so 40 time that
isn't much.

When the vehicle was not being tested, it ran higher emissions and
PROBABLY had more power.  It also used far less urea solution (the
supply is about a liter bottle, I think).  As I said, I don't think
those small diesels can meet the standard and have adequate power for
the consumer.  Big trucks meet the particulate standards by trapping
the soot and adding fuel and air to burn it out.

Peter

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Peter Frederick via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
December 27, 2016 at 12:06 PM
The cheat was to operate the engine so it passed the NOX and 
particulate emissions standards ONLY when it was being tested -- when 
not being tested, emissions were somewhat higher.  The 40X above the 
limit is misleading, the limit for NOX is very low, so 40 time that 
isn't much.


When the vehicle was not being tested, it ran higher emissions and 
PROBABLY had more power.  It also used far less urea solution (the 
supply is about a liter bottle, I think).  As I said, I don't think 
those small diesels can meet the standard and have adequate power for 
the consumer.  Big trucks meet the particulate standards by trapping 
the soot and adding fuel and air to burn it out.


Peter

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Mitch Haley via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
December 27, 2016 at 11:42 AM
I thought the cheat was to determine when emissions testing was in 
progress, and

reduce the maximum power during testing?

Are you saying that the cheat involved equipping the test cars with a 
tiny DEF

system?

Mitch.


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Peter Frederick via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
December 27, 2016 at 11:31 AM
VW cannot do that without adding a 5 gal tank for the urea, hence the 
failure to have a mechanical fix.


No place to put the tank.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

that is the GM line.  Either way, the olsmodissel (and caddydissel) was 
a POS and ruined the availability and image of Diesel engines for cars 
and pickups in the USA forever.


It just happened to be the same overall dimensions and bore and stroke 
as the vergasser, and was specifically designed to be made on the same 
line with the vergassers.  It was NOT a clean sheet of paper design.  
The design started with the 350 vergasser and went around the vergasser 
assembly line, procedures and dimensions.   The design ended on the 350 
assembly line when production of the oldsmodissel abortion began.


Whether you believe the GM line or not, it was a POS and will be 
remembered forever as the engine that ruined the potential of Diesel 
cars in the USA forever.


VW and the bummster extortion polution association (EPA) ring put the 
icing on diesels in this country for the next 40 years.

Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
December 27, 2016 at 6:24 PM
Yes you are right on about the 5.7. I think the belief that the 5.7 
diesel was just a converted gas engine was because it was the same 
size and similar block to the 350. It was never converted it was 
always a diesel


Sent from my iPhone




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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Yep, total piss ignorance.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 27, 2016, at 5:45 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> "Adequate power for the consumer" is the phrase that pays. My '98 Jetta has 
> 90hp and is totally adequate, I don't know how much lighter it is than a gen6 
> Jetta, considerably I suspect.
> The "cheater diesels" are 142hp, they haven't said how much they were detuned 
> during testing. Peter is right the amount they cheated is tiny, I heard it 
> reported to be "statistically insignificant" and "far less than one power 
> plant".
> The repercussions of recalling/replacing all of those cars will cause far 
> more emissions than just running them.
> -Curt
> 
> 
>  From: Peter Frederick via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> Cc: Peter Frederick <psf...@earthlink.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 1:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs
> 
> The cheat was to operate the engine so it passed the NOX and  
> particulate emissions standards ONLY when it was being tested -- when  
> not being tested, emissions were somewhat higher.  The 40X above the  
> limit is misleading, the limit for NOX is very low, so 40 time that  
> isn't much.
> 
> When the vehicle was not being tested, it ran higher emissions and  
> PROBABLY had more power.  It also used far less urea solution (the  
> supply is about a liter bottle, I think).  As I said, I don't think  
> those small diesels can meet the standard and have adequate power for  
> the consumer.  Big trucks meet the particulate standards by trapping  
> the soot and adding fuel and air to burn it out.
> 
> Peter
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Yes you are right on about the 5.7. I think the belief that the 5.7 diesel was 
just a converted gas engine was because it was the same size and similar block 
to the 350. It was never converted it was always a diesel

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 27, 2016, at 4:19 PM, fmiser via Mercedes  wrote:

>> Larry wrote:
> 
>> Man, we diesel enthusiast just can;t get a break, 1st, back in
>> the 70's, GM tried to use gas V8 cranks which broke too soon,
>> now,
> 
> Not true.  It was engineered as a diesel, but the bore and stroke
> dimensions were the same as the gasoline engine so both could be
> machined on the same line.  That diesel block and crank are
> sought-after items for high-power gasoline builds.
> 
> The early engines had problems - including the lack of a water
> separator for the fuel.  It was typical of GM at the time, put the
> car on the market before it was really done in engineering and let
> the early customers be "beta-testers".  After the bugs were worked
> out, the 5.7L diesel really was pretty good.
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

"Adequate power for the consumer" is the phrase that pays. My '98 Jetta has 
90hp and is totally adequate, I don't know how much lighter it is than a gen6 
Jetta, considerably I suspect.
The "cheater diesels" are 142hp, they haven't said how much they were detuned 
during testing. Peter is right the amount they cheated is tiny, I heard it 
reported to be "statistically insignificant" and "far less than one power 
plant".
The repercussions of recalling/replacing all of those cars will cause far more 
emissions than just running them.
-Curt


  From: Peter Frederick via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Peter Frederick <psf...@earthlink.net>
 Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 1:06 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs
   
The cheat was to operate the engine so it passed the NOX and  
particulate emissions standards ONLY when it was being tested -- when  
not being tested, emissions were somewhat higher.  The 40X above the  
limit is misleading, the limit for NOX is very low, so 40 time that  
isn't much.

When the vehicle was not being tested, it ran higher emissions and  
PROBABLY had more power.  It also used far less urea solution (the  
supply is about a liter bottle, I think).  As I said, I don't think  
those small diesels can meet the standard and have adequate power for  
the consumer.  Big trucks meet the particulate standards by trapping  
the soot and adding fuel and air to burn it out.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[fmiser via Mercedes]

Larry wrote:



Man, we diesel enthusiast just can;t get a break, 1st, back in
the 70's, GM tried to use gas V8 cranks which broke too soon,
now,


Not true.  It was engineered as a diesel, but the bore and stroke
dimensions were the same as the gasoline engine so both could be
machined on the same line.  That diesel block and crank are
sought-after items for high-power gasoline builds.

The early engines had problems - including the lack of a water
separator for the fuel.  It was typical of GM at the time, put the
car on the market before it was really done in engineering and let
the early customers be "beta-testers".  After the bugs were worked
out, the 5.7L diesel really was pretty good.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

The cheat was to operate the engine so it passed the NOX and  
particulate emissions standards ONLY when it was being tested -- when  
not being tested, emissions were somewhat higher.  The 40X above the  
limit is misleading, the limit for NOX is very low, so 40 time that  
isn't much.


When the vehicle was not being tested, it ran higher emissions and  
PROBABLY had more power.  It also used far less urea solution (the  
supply is about a liter bottle, I think).  As I said, I don't think  
those small diesels can meet the standard and have adequate power for  
the consumer.  Big trucks meet the particulate standards by trapping  
the soot and adding fuel and air to burn it out.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

where there is a will, there is a way.  Bluejuice headliner?

There was "no place" to put a wood gas generator either


Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
December 27, 2016 at 11:31 AM
VW cannot do that without adding a 5 gal tank for the urea, hence the 
failure to have a mechanical fix.


No place to put the tank.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

I thought the cheat was to determine when emissions testing was in progress, and
reduce the maximum power during testing?

Are you saying that the cheat involved equipping the test cars with a tiny DEF
system?

Mitch.

> On December 27, 2016 at 12:31 PM Peter Frederick via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> VW cannot do that without adding a 5 gal tank for the urea, hence the  
> failure to have a mechanical fix.
> 
> No place to put the tank.
> 
> Peter
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

VW cannot do that without adding a 5 gal tank for the urea, hence the  
failure to have a mechanical fix.


No place to put the tank.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

The emissions standards for diesel cars in the US is probably  
impossible to meet for small engines, and VW chose to cheat rather  
than use known technology (BlueTec) to avoid using large amounts of  
urea solution to manage the nitrogen oxides.  Probably can not afford  
to develop the cars now, after all the fines and lost business.  Too  
bad, they are nice cars.


The real solution of the nitrogen oxides problem is to build cities  
that can efficiently use mass transit, but the world dismantled that  
system starting in the 50's, and we have 60 years of "transportation  
issues" to deal with.  Everyone driving their own transit device means  
way too much nitrogen oxide emissions as electrics just won't do the  
job (ever) and internal combustion engines always produce large  
amounts of nitrogen oxides.  High thermal efficiency engines  
inherently produce large amounts of NOX because the air they operate  
on is 80% nitrogen -- the absolute worst offenders are jet engines,  
just not a grade level.


Suburban and ex-urban living is not possible as currently built using  
mass transit, gonna take a huge investment in new housing and business  
relocation to fix it.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

I would think they could if VW were to enable the "limp while emissions testing"
mode to operate full time, but I don't know the terms of the settlement. 
I get the idea they'd be pretty slow if they had to be driven like that. 
Mitch.

> On December 27, 2016 at 11:21 AM Larry Turner via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> That's a shame.  I would live with the problem if it were me.
> 
> Can the affected diesels be sold on the used market?
> 
> LarryT
> 
> 
> On 12/27/2016 11:15 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> > Vw will no longer be selling diesels in the US.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Dec 27, 2016, at 10:05 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >> Speaking of the VW magic with software, I wonder if new diesels will be
> >> impossible to buy?  I was in the market about a year ago when this was
> >> still in court and the saleslady said they weren't allowed to sell new
> >> Diesels.  I assume they are selling them again?
> >>
> >> Man, we diesel enthusiast just can;t get a break, 1st, back in the 70's, GM
> >> tried to use gas V8 cranks which broke too soon, now, VW has put another
> >> nail into the casket!
> >>
> >> I wonder if new cars will be offered with diesels as they were in the past?
> >>
> >> LarryT
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 12/26/2016 9:59 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes wrote:
> >>> Yup the guy is a dirtbag alright. VW should disqualify him from the
> >>> buyback. period.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
>  On Dec 23, 2016, at 9:23 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes
>   wrote:
> 
>  I don't care if stripping the car meets the letter of the buyback it's a
>  dirtbag move and dirtbag that do it shouldn't get the full buyback price.
>  Everybody knows what the buyback means, some people are trying to do
>  better than a fair deal and that's not right.
>  Curt
> 
>  Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> 
>    On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 5:49 AM, Mitch Haley via
>  Mercedes wrote:
>    
>  http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-refuses-to-buy-back-the-stripped-out-car-rig-1790345158
> 
>  Joe just told me over the phone that a mere hour before his appointment
>  at the
>  VW dealership, a representative for the company— who most likely saw
>  yesterday’s
>  story on Jalopnik—called and told him his buyback appointment had been
>  postponed. (We have reached out to Volkswagen directly about this matter
>  and
>  will update if we hear anything.)
> 
>  Joe says the rep told him that the reason for the delay is that VW
>  believes
>  stripping the car “wasn’t in the spirit of the buyback.”
> 
>  But as for the actual letter of the buyback, as Joe points out, the FTC
>  Consent
>  Order specifies only that to be eligible cars have to be “operable,” a
>  term the
>  document defines clearly as “can be driven under its own 2.0- liter TDI
>  engine
>  power.”
> 
>  Joe says his car drives just fine.
> 
>  ___
>  http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
>  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Not if they are sold back to vw

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 27, 2016, at 10:21 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> That's a shame.  I would live with the problem if it were me.
> 
> Can the affected diesels be sold on the used market?
> 
> LarryT
> 
> 
>> On 12/27/2016 11:15 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> Vw will no longer be selling diesels in the US.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Dec 27, 2016, at 10:05 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Speaking of the VW magic with software, I wonder if new diesels will be 
>>> impossible to buy?  I was in the market about a year ago when this was 
>>> still in court and the saleslady said they weren't allowed to sell new 
>>> Diesels.  I assume they are selling them again?
>>> 
>>> Man, we diesel enthusiast just can;t get a break, 1st, back in the 70's, GM 
>>> tried to use gas V8 cranks which broke too soon, now, VW has put another 
>>> nail into the casket!
>>> 
>>> I wonder if new cars will be offered with diesels as they were in the past?
>>> 
>>> LarryT
>>> 
>>> 
 On 12/26/2016 9:59 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes wrote:
 Yup the guy is a dirtbag alright. VW should disqualify him from the 
 buyback. period.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Dec 23, 2016, at 9:23 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don't care if stripping the car meets the letter of the buyback it's a 
> dirtbag move and dirtbag that do it shouldn't get the full buyback price. 
> Everybody knows what the buyback means, some people are trying to do 
> better than a fair deal and that's not right.
> Curt
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> 
>  On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 5:49 AM, Mitch Haley via 
> Mercedes wrote:   
> http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-refuses-to-buy-back-the-stripped-out-car-rig-1790345158
> 
> Joe just told me over the phone that a mere hour before his appointment 
> at the
> VW dealership, a representative for the company— who most likely saw 
> yesterday’s
> story on Jalopnik—called and told him his buyback appointment had been
> postponed. (We have reached out to Volkswagen directly about this matter 
> and
> will update if we hear anything.)
> 
> Joe says the rep told him that the reason for the delay is that VW 
> believes
> stripping the car “wasn’t in the spirit of the buyback.”
> 
> But as for the actual letter of the buyback, as Joe points out, the FTC 
> Consent
> Order specifies only that to be eligible cars have to be “operable,” a 
> term the
> document defines clearly as “can be driven under its own 2.0- liter TDI 
> engine
> power.”
> 
> Joe says his car drives just fine.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

That's a shame.  I would live with the problem if it were me.

Can the affected diesels be sold on the used market?

LarryT


On 12/27/2016 11:15 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:

Vw will no longer be selling diesels in the US.

Sent from my iPhone


On Dec 27, 2016, at 10:05 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes  
wrote:

Speaking of the VW magic with software, I wonder if new diesels will be 
impossible to buy?  I was in the market about a year ago when this was still in 
court and the saleslady said they weren't allowed to sell new Diesels.  I 
assume they are selling them again?

Man, we diesel enthusiast just can;t get a break, 1st, back in the 70's, GM 
tried to use gas V8 cranks which broke too soon, now, VW has put another nail 
into the casket!

I wonder if new cars will be offered with diesels as they were in the past?

LarryT



On 12/26/2016 9:59 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes wrote:
Yup the guy is a dirtbag alright. VW should disqualify him from the buyback. 
period.

Sent from my iPhone


On Dec 23, 2016, at 9:23 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes  
wrote:

I don't care if stripping the car meets the letter of the buyback it's a 
dirtbag move and dirtbag that do it shouldn't get the full buyback price. 
Everybody knows what the buyback means, some people are trying to do better 
than a fair deal and that's not right.
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

  On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 5:49 AM, Mitch Haley via 
Mercedes wrote:   
http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-refuses-to-buy-back-the-stripped-out-car-rig-1790345158

Joe just told me over the phone that a mere hour before his appointment at the
VW dealership, a representative for the company— who most likely saw yesterday’s
story on Jalopnik—called and told him his buyback appointment had been
postponed. (We have reached out to Volkswagen directly about this matter and
will update if we hear anything.)

Joe says the rep told him that the reason for the delay is that VW believes
stripping the car “wasn’t in the spirit of the buyback.”

But as for the actual letter of the buyback, as Joe points out, the FTC Consent
Order specifies only that to be eligible cars have to be “operable,” a term the
document defines clearly as “can be driven under its own 2.0- liter TDI engine
power.”

Joe says his car drives just fine.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Vw will no longer be selling diesels in the US.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 27, 2016, at 10:05 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Speaking of the VW magic with software, I wonder if new diesels will be 
> impossible to buy?  I was in the market about a year ago when this was still 
> in court and the saleslady said they weren't allowed to sell new Diesels.  I 
> assume they are selling them again?
> 
> Man, we diesel enthusiast just can;t get a break, 1st, back in the 70's, GM 
> tried to use gas V8 cranks which broke too soon, now, VW has put another nail 
> into the casket!
> 
> I wonder if new cars will be offered with diesels as they were in the past?
> 
> LarryT
> 
> 
>> On 12/26/2016 9:59 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes wrote:
>> Yup the guy is a dirtbag alright. VW should disqualify him from the buyback. 
>> period.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Dec 23, 2016, at 9:23 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don't care if stripping the car meets the letter of the buyback it's a 
>>> dirtbag move and dirtbag that do it shouldn't get the full buyback price. 
>>> Everybody knows what the buyback means, some people are trying to do better 
>>> than a fair deal and that's not right.
>>> Curt
>>> 
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>> 
>>>  On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 5:49 AM, Mitch Haley via 
>>> Mercedes wrote:   
>>> http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-refuses-to-buy-back-the-stripped-out-car-rig-1790345158
>>> 
>>> Joe just told me over the phone that a mere hour before his appointment at 
>>> the
>>> VW dealership, a representative for the company— who most likely saw 
>>> yesterday’s
>>> story on Jalopnik—called and told him his buyback appointment had been
>>> postponed. (We have reached out to Volkswagen directly about this matter and
>>> will update if we hear anything.)
>>> 
>>> Joe says the rep told him that the reason for the delay is that VW believes
>>> stripping the car “wasn’t in the spirit of the buyback.”
>>> 
>>> But as for the actual letter of the buyback, as Joe points out, the FTC 
>>> Consent
>>> Order specifies only that to be eligible cars have to be “operable,” a term 
>>> the
>>> document defines clearly as “can be driven under its own 2.0- liter TDI 
>>> engine
>>> power.”
>>> 
>>> Joe says his car drives just fine.
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

Speaking of the VW magic with software, I wonder if new diesels will be 
impossible to buy?  I was in the market about a year ago when this was 
still in court and the saleslady said they weren't allowed to sell new 
Diesels.  I assume they are selling them again?


Man, we diesel enthusiast just can;t get a break, 1st, back in the 70's, 
GM tried to use gas V8 cranks which broke too soon, now, VW has put 
another nail into the casket!


I wonder if new cars will be offered with diesels as they were in the past?

LarryT


On 12/26/2016 9:59 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes wrote:

Yup the guy is a dirtbag alright. VW should disqualify him from the buyback. 
period.

Sent from my iPhone


On Dec 23, 2016, at 9:23 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes  
wrote:

I don't care if stripping the car meets the letter of the buyback it's a 
dirtbag move and dirtbag that do it shouldn't get the full buyback price. 
Everybody knows what the buyback means, some people are trying to do better 
than a fair deal and that's not right.
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

  On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 5:49 AM, Mitch Haley via 
Mercedes wrote:   
http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-refuses-to-buy-back-the-stripped-out-car-rig-1790345158

Joe just told me over the phone that a mere hour before his appointment at the
VW dealership, a representative for the company— who most likely saw yesterday’s
story on Jalopnik—called and told him his buyback appointment had been
postponed. (We have reached out to Volkswagen directly about this matter and
will update if we hear anything.)

Joe says the rep told him that the reason for the delay is that VW believes
stripping the car “wasn’t in the spirit of the buyback.”

But as for the actual letter of the buyback, as Joe points out, the FTC Consent
Order specifies only that to be eligible cars have to be “operable,” a term the
document defines clearly as “can be driven under its own 2.0- liter TDI engine
power.”

Joe says his car drives just fine.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Dimitri via Mercedes]

Yup the guy is a dirtbag alright. VW should disqualify him from the buyback. 
period.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 23, 2016, at 9:23 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don't care if stripping the car meets the letter of the buyback it's a 
> dirtbag move and dirtbag that do it shouldn't get the full buyback price. 
> Everybody knows what the buyback means, some people are trying to do better 
> than a fair deal and that's not right.
> Curt
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> 
>  On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 5:49 AM, Mitch Haley via 
> Mercedes wrote:   
> http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-refuses-to-buy-back-the-stripped-out-car-rig-1790345158
> 
> Joe just told me over the phone that a mere hour before his appointment at the
> VW dealership, a representative for the company— who most likely saw 
> yesterday’s
> story on Jalopnik—called and told him his buyback appointment had been
> postponed. (We have reached out to Volkswagen directly about this matter and
> will update if we hear anything.)
> 
> Joe says the rep told him that the reason for the delay is that VW believes
> stripping the car “wasn’t in the spirit of the buyback.”
> 
> But as for the actual letter of the buyback, as Joe points out, the FTC 
> Consent
> Order specifies only that to be eligible cars have to be “operable,” a term 
> the
> document defines clearly as “can be driven under its own 2.0- liter TDI engine
> power.”
> 
> Joe says his car drives just fine.
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Two wrongs don't make a right...but three lefts do.

Waiting to see what the Touareg offer is. They are buying back the older
ones, but not the newer ones.

On Dec 23, 2016 11:30 AM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" 
wrote:

Someone else's moral failings don't make additional moral failures right.
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

  On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes<
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:   It's a dirtbag move to cheat your customers.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 23, 2016, at 8:23 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> I don't care if stripping the car meets the letter of the buyback it's a
dirtbag move and dirtbag that do it shouldn't get the full buyback price.
Everybody knows what the buyback means, some people are trying to do better
than a fair deal and that's not right.
> Curt
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>
>  On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 5:49 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes<
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:  http://jalopnik.com/
volkswagen-refuses-to-buy-back-the-stripped-out-car-rig-1790345158
>
> Joe just told me over the phone that a mere hour before his appointment
at the
> VW dealership, a representative for the company— who most likely saw
yesterday’s
> story on Jalopnik—called and told him his buyback appointment had been
> postponed. (We have reached out to Volkswagen directly about this matter
and
> will update if we hear anything.)
>
> Joe says the rep told him that the reason for the delay is that VW
believes
> stripping the car “wasn’t in the spirit of the buyback.”
>
> But as for the actual letter of the buyback, as Joe points out, the FTC
Consent
> Order specifies only that to be eligible cars have to be “operable,” a
term the
> document defines clearly as “can be driven under its own 2.0- liter TDI
engine
> power.”
>
> Joe says his car drives just fine.
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 19:30:24 + (UTC) Curt Raymond via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Someone else's moral failings don't make additional moral failures
> right. Curt

+1


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Someone else's moral failings don't make additional moral failures right.
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin via 
Mercedes wrote:   It's a dirtbag move to cheat your 
customers. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 23, 2016, at 8:23 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don't care if stripping the car meets the letter of the buyback it's a 
> dirtbag move and dirtbag that do it shouldn't get the full buyback price. 
> Everybody knows what the buyback means, some people are trying to do better 
> than a fair deal and that's not right.
> Curt
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> 
>  On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 5:49 AM, Mitch Haley via 
>Mercedes wrote:  
>http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-refuses-to-buy-back-the-stripped-out-car-rig-1790345158
> 
> Joe just told me over the phone that a mere hour before his appointment at the
> VW dealership, a representative for the company— who most likely saw 
> yesterday’s
> story on Jalopnik—called and told him his buyback appointment had been
> postponed. (We have reached out to Volkswagen directly about this matter and
> will update if we hear anything.)
> 
> Joe says the rep told him that the reason for the delay is that VW believes
> stripping the car “wasn’t in the spirit of the buyback.”
> 
> But as for the actual letter of the buyback, as Joe points out, the FTC 
> Consent
> Order specifies only that to be eligible cars have to be “operable,” a term 
> the
> document defines clearly as “can be driven under its own 2.0- liter TDI engine
> power.”
> 
> Joe says his car drives just fine.
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

It's a dirtbag move to cheat your customers. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 23, 2016, at 8:23 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don't care if stripping the car meets the letter of the buyback it's a 
> dirtbag move and dirtbag that do it shouldn't get the full buyback price. 
> Everybody knows what the buyback means, some people are trying to do better 
> than a fair deal and that's not right.
> Curt
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> 
>  On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 5:49 AM, Mitch Haley via 
> Mercedes wrote:   
> http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-refuses-to-buy-back-the-stripped-out-car-rig-1790345158
> 
> Joe just told me over the phone that a mere hour before his appointment at the
> VW dealership, a representative for the company— who most likely saw 
> yesterday’s
> story on Jalopnik—called and told him his buyback appointment had been
> postponed. (We have reached out to Volkswagen directly about this matter and
> will update if we hear anything.)
> 
> Joe says the rep told him that the reason for the delay is that VW believes
> stripping the car “wasn’t in the spirit of the buyback.”
> 
> But as for the actual letter of the buyback, as Joe points out, the FTC 
> Consent
> Order specifies only that to be eligible cars have to be “operable,” a term 
> the
> document defines clearly as “can be driven under its own 2.0- liter TDI engine
> power.”
> 
> Joe says his car drives just fine.
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Kyle Arola via Mercedes]

Truth.

Kyle

On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 9:23 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I don't care if stripping the car meets the letter of the buyback it's a
> dirtbag move and dirtbag that do it shouldn't get the full buyback price.
> Everybody knows what the buyback means, some people are trying to do better
> than a fair deal and that's not right.
> Curt
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>
>   On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 5:49 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes<
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:   http://jalopnik.com/
> volkswagen-refuses-to-buy-back-the-stripped-out-car-rig-1790345158
>
> Joe just told me over the phone that a mere hour before his appointment at
> the
> VW dealership, a representative for the company— who most likely saw
> yesterday’s
> story on Jalopnik—called and told him his buyback appointment had been
> postponed. (We have reached out to Volkswagen directly about this matter
> and
> will update if we hear anything.)
>
> Joe says the rep told him that the reason for the delay is that VW believes
> stripping the car “wasn’t in the spirit of the buyback.”
>
> But as for the actual letter of the buyback, as Joe points out, the FTC
> Consent
> Order specifies only that to be eligible cars have to be “operable,” a
> term the
> document defines clearly as “can be driven under its own 2.0- liter TDI
> engine
> power.”
>
> Joe says his car drives just fine.
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I don't care if stripping the car meets the letter of the buyback it's a 
dirtbag move and dirtbag that do it shouldn't get the full buyback price. 
Everybody knows what the buyback means, some people are trying to do better 
than a fair deal and that's not right.
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 5:49 AM, Mitch Haley via 
Mercedes wrote:   
http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-refuses-to-buy-back-the-stripped-out-car-rig-1790345158

Joe just told me over the phone that a mere hour before his appointment at the
VW dealership, a representative for the company— who most likely saw yesterday’s
story on Jalopnik—called and told him his buyback appointment had been
postponed. (We have reached out to Volkswagen directly about this matter and
will update if we hear anything.)

Joe says the rep told him that the reason for the delay is that VW believes
stripping the car “wasn’t in the spirit of the buyback.”

But as for the actual letter of the buyback, as Joe points out, the FTC Consent
Order specifies only that to be eligible cars have to be “operable,” a term the
document defines clearly as “can be driven under its own 2.0- liter TDI engine
power.”

Joe says his car drives just fine.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

The fix is simple. 
Make the car run in low power 'pass the test mode' full time. 
Any engine controls engineer should be able to code that software in a day. 
They just can't do that for the current owners, because then the car wouldn't
have the performance that VW advertised when they bought it.
Mitch. 

> On December 23, 2016 at 8:53 AM Kyle Arola via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Well, Anja and I are not stripping our VW to sell back.  Maybe if there is
> a fix for the 2015, someone will get a nice, used, VW TDi wagon.
>

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Re: [MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Kyle Arola via Mercedes]

Well, Anja and I are not stripping our VW to sell back.  Maybe if there is
a fix for the 2015, someone will get a nice, used, VW TDi wagon.

Kyle

On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 8:49 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-refuses-to-buy-
> back-the-stripped-out-car-rig-1790345158
>
> Joe just told me over the phone that a mere hour before his appointment at
> the
> VW dealership, a representative for the company— who most likely saw
> yesterday’s
> story on Jalopnik—called and told him his buyback appointment had been
> postponed. (We have reached out to Volkswagen directly about this matter
> and
> will update if we hear anything.)
>
> Joe says the rep told him that the reason for the delay is that VW believes
> stripping the car “wasn’t in the spirit of the buyback.”
>
> But as for the actual letter of the buyback, as Joe points out, the FTC
> Consent
> Order specifies only that to be eligible cars have to be “operable,” a
> term the
> document defines clearly as “can be driven under its own 2.0- liter TDI
> engine
> power.”
>
> Joe says his car drives just fine.
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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[MBZ] OT: VW doesn't like buying back stripped TDIs

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-refuses-to-buy-back-the-stripped-out-car-rig-1790345158

Joe just told me over the phone that a mere hour before his appointment at the
VW dealership, a representative for the company— who most likely saw yesterday’s
story on Jalopnik—called and told him his buyback appointment had been
postponed. (We have reached out to Volkswagen directly about this matter and
will update if we hear anything.)

Joe says the rep told him that the reason for the delay is that VW believes
stripping the car “wasn’t in the spirit of the buyback.”

But as for the actual letter of the buyback, as Joe points out, the FTC Consent
Order specifies only that to be eligible cars have to be “operable,” a term the
document defines clearly as “can be driven under its own 2.0- liter TDI engine
power.”

Joe says his car drives just fine.

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