Re: [MBZ] OT - Now SST's - was B-58
> > If I remember correctly the Russians actually put them in scheduled > service inside the USSR for a while. They were retired because they > burned too much fuel -- took a full 30 min of afterburner at full > reheat to get up to altitude and speed, and that shortened the range > too much (along with the usual Russian airplane maintenance, etc). > > The TU is pretty snaz for 1968 -- variable pitch turbofan with duct > burning reheat, and I believe variable pitch compressor first stage, > too. > > If the Ruskies could every keep their aircraft stuck together and > used rational tactics, they'd beat the pants off of us. Good thing > is that's not likely to change! The Georgians shot down at least one > Backfire bomber and a couple top of the line fighters last week. > > Peter Peter, If *I* remember correctly the Concordski burned so much fuel b/c it had to run reheat to stay over Mach 1. If you compare the design of the wings, the Concorde was more complex and that was the reason I recall for better fuel efficiency. Of course, efficiency here is ENTIRELY relative. One story I read was that the Tu-144 was used to haul mail for the proletariat at one point. Tony Wirtel ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Now SST's - was B-58
If I remember correctly the Russians actually put them in scheduled service inside the USSR for a while. They were retired because they burned too much fuel -- took a full 30 min of afterburner at full reheat to get up to altitude and speed, and that shortened the range too much (along with the usual Russian airplane maintenance, etc). The TU is pretty snaz for 1968 -- variable pitch turbofan with duct burning reheat, and I believe variable pitch compressor first stage, too. If the Ruskies could every keep their aircraft stuck together and used rational tactics, they'd beat the pants off of us. Good thing is that's not likely to change! The Georgians shot down at least one Backfire bomber and a couple top of the line fighters last week. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Now SST's - was B-58
Peter, I defer to greater knowledge and did a google: Results here: http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/news/FactSheets/ FS-062-DFRC.html A NASA website. 17 Tu-144's were built, 2 crashed. Thanks for "suggesting" that I educate myself before I "open" my email "mouth" Take care, Chuck Phoenix AZ On Aug 18, 2008, at 3:41 PM, Peter Frederick wrote: > I do believe there were more than three -- NASA owns one, or did -- > refurbed by Tupolev a few years back and used for supersonic research > work. I believe it was taken out of service a few years later, > before the Concorde was taken out of service as well. > > Quite a sight, one of those planes taking off, they look sort of pre- > historic somehow! > > Peter > > On Aug 17, 2008, at 8:37 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote: > >> Correction - without a TRACE of "wordy fuss". >> >> On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 9:36 PM, andrew strasfogel >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: >> >>> Chuck's sparse narratives are an object lesson in how to write >>> clearly and >>> vividly with a minimum of wordy fuss. Chuck - did you ever consider >>> teaching creative writing? >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 6:33 PM, Chuck Landenberger >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: >>> Peter, Last fall, I went to Germany with the MBCA Factory tour. Also made a stop at the Technik Musium at Sinsheim, not to far from Stuttgart. They have a Concorde and a Tu-144 on display on stilts - Full size - Spiral staircases allow one to go to the interior of each plane. Three TU-144's were built, and two crashed. They grounded this one. The Tu-144 was dismantled in Russia and transported by barges. Quite a feat. Many many cars and military equipment on display. Here is the link to the Sinsheim Musuem. Unfortunately, it's in German. But the pix are quite interesting. The English version is still under construction. http://www.technik-museum.de/museum_sinsheim_deutsch.html Take care, Chuck Phoenix On Aug 17, 2008, at 2:41 PM, Peter Frederick wrote: > > > Ditto for the SST, by the way. Turns out it was physically > impossible to build one that would do the job and make money, > even at > ten cents a gallon for fuel (what a joke that is today!). The > Concorde never made a dime -- and the Russians parked the > superior TU > 144 pretty fast due to horrendous fuel consumption. > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >>> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ >> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Now SST's - was B-58
Oh, and by the way, the one that crashed at the Paris Air Show crashed not as a result of failure of the airplane, but as a result of a deliberate incursion into the flight path by a French fighter. NOT an accident, although I really don't think the fighter pilot expected the TU-144 to come apart in the air. By flying directly into the flight path of the TU 144, the fighter caused the pilot of the TU to "bunt" -- that is, pull up too sharply, stalling the engines and causing a severe temporary loss of power, leading to an aerodynamic stall at fairly low speed and altitude. The recovery attempt resulted in a tail failure to from over-stressing the airframe in a desperate attempt to keep from pancaking. Not a failure of design or execution of the airframe, it's very unlikely any aircraft would survive those conditions intact. The flight path incursion was planned deliberately to make the TU-144 look bad (remember, it was flying before the Concorde was ready) and there was significant interest in supersonic transport at the time, and there was no market for TWO SSTs. I would presume the subsequent crash was NOT planned. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Now SST's - was B-58
I do believe there were more than three -- NASA owns one, or did -- refurbed by Tupolev a few years back and used for supersonic research work. I believe it was taken out of service a few years later, before the Concorde was taken out of service as well. Quite a sight, one of those planes taking off, they look sort of pre- historic somehow! Peter On Aug 17, 2008, at 8:37 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote: > Correction - without a TRACE of "wordy fuss". > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 9:36 PM, andrew strasfogel > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > >> Chuck's sparse narratives are an object lesson in how to write >> clearly and >> vividly with a minimum of wordy fuss. Chuck - did you ever consider >> teaching creative writing? >> >> >> On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 6:33 PM, Chuck Landenberger >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: >> >>> Peter, >>> >>> Last fall, I went to Germany with the MBCA Factory tour. Also >>> made a >>> stop at the Technik Musium at Sinsheim, not to far from Stuttgart. >>> >>> They have a Concorde and a Tu-144 on display on stilts - Full size - >>> Spiral staircases allow one to go to the interior of each plane. >>> Three TU-144's were built, and two crashed. They grounded this one. >>> >>> The Tu-144 was dismantled in Russia and transported by barges. >>> Quite >>> a feat. Many many cars and military equipment on display. >>> >>> Here is the link to the Sinsheim Musuem. Unfortunately, it's in >>> German. But the pix are quite interesting. The English version is >>> still under construction. >>> >>> http://www.technik-museum.de/museum_sinsheim_deutsch.html >>> >>> Take care, >>> >>> Chuck >>> Phoenix >>> >>> On Aug 17, 2008, at 2:41 PM, Peter Frederick wrote: Ditto for the SST, by the way. Turns out it was physically impossible to build one that would do the job and make money, even at ten cents a gallon for fuel (what a joke that is today!). The Concorde never made a dime -- and the Russians parked the superior TU 144 pretty fast due to horrendous fuel consumption. >>> ___ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ >>> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >> >> > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Now SST's - was B-58
Correction - without a TRACE of "wordy fuss". On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 9:36 PM, andrew strasfogel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > Chuck's sparse narratives are an object lesson in how to write clearly and > vividly with a minimum of wordy fuss. Chuck - did you ever consider > teaching creative writing? > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 6:33 PM, Chuck Landenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > >> Peter, >> >> Last fall, I went to Germany with the MBCA Factory tour. Also made a >> stop at the Technik Musium at Sinsheim, not to far from Stuttgart. >> >> They have a Concorde and a Tu-144 on display on stilts - Full size - >> Spiral staircases allow one to go to the interior of each plane. >> Three TU-144's were built, and two crashed. They grounded this one. >> >> The Tu-144 was dismantled in Russia and transported by barges. Quite >> a feat. Many many cars and military equipment on display. >> >> Here is the link to the Sinsheim Musuem. Unfortunately, it's in >> German. But the pix are quite interesting. The English version is >> still under construction. >> >> http://www.technik-museum.de/museum_sinsheim_deutsch.html >> >> Take care, >> >> Chuck >> Phoenix >> >> On Aug 17, 2008, at 2:41 PM, Peter Frederick wrote: >> > >> > >> > Ditto for the SST, by the way. Turns out it was physically >> > impossible to build one that would do the job and make money, even at >> > ten cents a gallon for fuel (what a joke that is today!). The >> > Concorde never made a dime -- and the Russians parked the superior TU >> > 144 pretty fast due to horrendous fuel consumption. >> > >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ >> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Now SST's - was B-58
Chuck's sparse narratives are an object lesson in how to write clearly and vividly with a minimum of wordy fuss. Chuck - did you ever consider teaching creative writing? On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 6:33 PM, Chuck Landenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Peter, > > Last fall, I went to Germany with the MBCA Factory tour. Also made a > stop at the Technik Musium at Sinsheim, not to far from Stuttgart. > > They have a Concorde and a Tu-144 on display on stilts - Full size - > Spiral staircases allow one to go to the interior of each plane. > Three TU-144's were built, and two crashed. They grounded this one. > > The Tu-144 was dismantled in Russia and transported by barges. Quite > a feat. Many many cars and military equipment on display. > > Here is the link to the Sinsheim Musuem. Unfortunately, it's in > German. But the pix are quite interesting. The English version is > still under construction. > > http://www.technik-museum.de/museum_sinsheim_deutsch.html > > Take care, > > Chuck > Phoenix > > On Aug 17, 2008, at 2:41 PM, Peter Frederick wrote: > > > > > > Ditto for the SST, by the way. Turns out it was physically > > impossible to build one that would do the job and make money, even at > > ten cents a gallon for fuel (what a joke that is today!). The > > Concorde never made a dime -- and the Russians parked the superior TU > > 144 pretty fast due to horrendous fuel consumption. > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Now SST's - was B-58
Peter, Last fall, I went to Germany with the MBCA Factory tour. Also made a stop at the Technik Musium at Sinsheim, not to far from Stuttgart. They have a Concorde and a Tu-144 on display on stilts - Full size - Spiral staircases allow one to go to the interior of each plane. Three TU-144's were built, and two crashed. They grounded this one. The Tu-144 was dismantled in Russia and transported by barges. Quite a feat. Many many cars and military equipment on display. Here is the link to the Sinsheim Musuem. Unfortunately, it's in German. But the pix are quite interesting. The English version is still under construction. http://www.technik-museum.de/museum_sinsheim_deutsch.html Take care, Chuck Phoenix On Aug 17, 2008, at 2:41 PM, Peter Frederick wrote: > > > Ditto for the SST, by the way. Turns out it was physically > impossible to build one that would do the job and make money, even at > ten cents a gallon for fuel (what a joke that is today!). The > Concorde never made a dime -- and the Russians parked the superior TU > 144 pretty fast due to horrendous fuel consumption. > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
