Re: [MBZ] Orelegated alternative forms of voter franchise on
Hey Wonko, Bear in mind I do not include Donald in with most other lawyers. Now, having said that .. ... I'm also in Va - I;m sure you've seen all the lawyers advertising on TV and the radio - everything from silly - a lawyer sitting in a little space ship like those we'd ride in as kids for 10 cents - while he made his pitch, to the seemingly sincere We'll work for YOU! Yeah, right. Yeah, heard it all - my business died 20+ years ago and I talked to a lawyer about my finances - he said the bankruptcy laws were the only ones created to *help* people - take advantage of it. Then he said he'd do it for $1500. HA! if I'd had $1500 (up front) I;d be paying my bills! Anyway, handled the paperwork myself using a kit I bought at a office supply store for $40. Filled out everything requested and went to court when requested. Sat next to a lawyer who asked what I was doing - I told him and he thought I was in big trouble! Now I start wondering what I may have done wrong or what the judge might decide. As I sweated out waiting for my time to come I kept hearing that lawyer telling me I was dumb it was to do this without a lawyer... I was last since a business was involved - and things could not have gone smoother! The judge complimented me on the apparent completeness of the paperwork - this after dealing with a dozen lawyers who he constantly berated for appearing ill prepared. ;-) And, I saved $1500. I truly think I could do para-legal work if I were to go to school - but the lawyers make the laws and things are difficult to break into because of the barriers set up. The lawyers in the legislature protect the lawyers in private practice. Also, the ABA contribute a lot of money to political campaigns to keep things going their way - true, like other groups - but with lawyers in power it's not the same. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Wonko the Sane [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Orelegated alternative forms of voter franchise on I lost all respect (sorry, Donald) for attorneys when I saw my attorney and my ex's attorney sitting at a cafeteria table and laughing it up over cups of coffee during a recess of my divorce proceedings. They weren't protecting anyone's interests -- they were simply parroting what was already laid out in Virginia code (i.e., property settlement) and were probably comparing billable hours. They had no more concern about assisting either of us than you will have about getting up tomorrow morning and taking a leak. It was pure assembly line, with everyone having his hands in the back pockets of those they were supposed to be representing. The only reason they exist is because they are allowed to appear before the Court, where you and I aren't (unless we are in criminal court and decide to represent ourselves). The only advice my ex's attorney gave her was to try to provoke me into assaulting her (she tried but I as able to side-step everything -- which is maybe why I do what I do for a living now, natural instincts when working with out-of-control individuals). The only advice my attorney gave me was to throw my wife and children out onto the street, force sale the house and split the profits. (I refused, saying that she could just have the house for the sake of the two kids -- they had gone through enough trauma already without suddenly being homeless.) On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Royce Engler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: or Q-why are divorce attorneys so expensive? A-Because IT'S WORTH IT! -- LT Don http://don.homelinux.net/~don/ apt-get update apt-get upgrade The following packages will be replaced Prez Do you want to continue? [Y/n] Y ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Orelegated alternative forms of voter franchise on
Larry, Here in WA you can sort of read in to become a lawyer. Only good here though. You apprentice to a school taught lawyer and take the bar exam, then you get to be one of the slimy fish. No chance of reciprocity in other states, but good enough for doing country lawyer work. As for paralegal, just hit the local junior college and two years later, you are doing all sorts of legal things with that AA degree. -- clay On 10 Jun 2008, at 05:06, LarryT wrote: I truly think I could do para-legal work if I were to go to school - but the lawyers make the laws and things are difficult to break into because of the barriers set up. The lawyers in the legislature protect the lawyers in private practice. Also, the ABA contribute a lot of money to political campaigns to keep things going their way - true, like other groups - but with lawyers in power it's not the same. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Orelegated alternative forms of voter franchise on
Hear hear! Idiots like Brittany Spears have done more to damaged the good name of marriage than all the gay people that ever lived. How about a 2 time loser law, if you can't pick the right one once out of 2 times you CAN NOT get married again. Or maybe marriage licenses go to a sliding cost scale, first one is free, second is $10,000 and the price doubles for each one thereafter. Might make people think it through a little more. -Curt Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 14:07:51 -0400 From: Bill R lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; Subject: Re: [MBZ] Orelegated alternative forms of voter franchise on nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; tonbsp;nbsp;nbsp; forms of marriage To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' lt;mercedes@okiebenz.comgt; Message-ID: lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; Content-Type: text/plain;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; charset=us-ascii lt;lt;lt;lt;lt;lt;lt;lt;lt; Royce wrote lt;lt;the right for two beings to be married, regardless of anythinggt;gt; I'mnbsp; not familiar with the wording of the recently passed legislation --nbsp; does it specify 2 people ?nbsp; or can it be 3,4,5 or more?nbsp; What about father marrying son, daughter or the family dog?gt;gt;gt;gt;gt;gt;gt;gt; Many of those things do go more than a bit beyond sanity, though the gay thing never bothered me.nbsp; My marriage to my Darling Wife isn't affected at all by theirs, and I don't understand the idea that somehow it is made less important when Mike and Jerry [two good friends who have been in a monogamous relationship for 15 years] are able to marry.nbsp; They are more married than a lot of heterosexual couples.nbsp; That one doesn't bother me at all.nbsp; I won't go into the religious stuff as it has been worked over already - even if not here.nbsp; Nothing there that changes my mind either. BillR ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Orelegated alternative forms of voter franchise on
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 05:37:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Orelegated alternative forms of voter franchise on To: Diesel List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hear hear! Idiots like Brittany Spears have done more to damaged the good name of marriage than all the gay people that ever lived. How about a 2 time loser law, if you can't pick the right one once out of 2 times you CAN NOT get married again. Or maybe marriage licenses go to a sliding cost scale, first one is free, second is $10,000 and the price doubles for each one thereafter. Might make people think it through a little more. -Curt Hey CurtThey don't get you up front. The real cost of multiple marriages is in the ending thereofas in, instead of getting married again, I think I'll just find a woman I hate and buy her a house, or Q-why are divorce attorneys so expensive? A-Because IT'S WORTH IT! Royce - who took a long time to recognize the error of the first one, but got it right the second time. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Orelegated alternative forms of voter franchise on
I lost all respect (sorry, Donald) for attorneys when I saw my attorney and my ex's attorney sitting at a cafeteria table and laughing it up over cups of coffee during a recess of my divorce proceedings. They weren't protecting anyone's interests -- they were simply parroting what was already laid out in Virginia code (i.e., property settlement) and were probably comparing billable hours. They had no more concern about assisting either of us than you will have about getting up tomorrow morning and taking a leak. It was pure assembly line, with everyone having his hands in the back pockets of those they were supposed to be representing. The only reason they exist is because they are allowed to appear before the Court, where you and I aren't (unless we are in criminal court and decide to represent ourselves). The only advice my ex's attorney gave her was to try to provoke me into assaulting her (she tried but I as able to side-step everything -- which is maybe why I do what I do for a living now, natural instincts when working with out-of-control individuals). The only advice my attorney gave me was to throw my wife and children out onto the street, force sale the house and split the profits. (I refused, saying that she could just have the house for the sake of the two kids -- they had gone through enough trauma already without suddenly being homeless.) On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Royce Engler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: or Q-why are divorce attorneys so expensive? A-Because IT'S WORTH IT! -- LT Don http://don.homelinux.net/~don/ apt-get update apt-get upgrade The following packages will be replaced Prez Do you want to continue? [Y/n] Y ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Orelegated alternative forms of voter franchise on
Wonko the Sane wrote: The only reason they exist is because they are allowed to appear before the Court, where you and I aren't (unless we are in criminal court and decide to represent ourselves). In many cases only a licensed attorney can represent a corporation, sometimes an officer of the company can do it. That's the only time I can think of that you can be legally required to hire an attorney. You are always allowed to represent YOURSELF pro-se, but the judge may strongly discourage it in criminal matters. You can even file a suit in federal court by yourself if you want to, when an attorney not specifically authorized for practice before the federal bar cannot represent you. You will be more likely to have an unfavorable outcome because you failed to represent yourself in an optimal fashion, but attorneys aren't immune to incompetence either. A couple of my friends got divorced many years ago. Her attorney should have been sued for malpractice. She used up all her interrogatories without asking about his tax withholdings, which upset the wife when his lawyer asked for her tax withholding information and she found out that her withholdings (inadequate) were treated as a marital asset and his withholdings (overwithheld to make up for his wife's underwithholdings) were not part of the asset division. This is divorce law 101 here. Save a couple of questions for a rainy day, and always ask about IRS deposits. Her lawyer's answer to an upset client was to recommend they delay the final decree until after year end and file their taxes jointly. Husband had no intention of filing a joint return with his ex wife. So after losing her half of hubby's IRS and state tax deposits, she then paid an extra $1000 or so in taxes because she was married filing separately instead of single. I could have structured that settlement to reduce their combined tax bills by close to $3000 if they'd consulted me first. I've talked to more than one family practice attorney who admitted to barely passing the required high school math classes. Not the sort of person you want to pay $200 an hour to optimize your financial situation. Mitch ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Orelegated alternative forms of voter franchise
Royce wrote the right for two beings to be married, regardless of anything I'm not familiar with the wording of the recently passed legislation -- does it specify 2 people ? or can it be 3,4,5 or more? What about father marrying son, daughter or the family dog? re: State sovereignty died at Appomattox In spite of the tremendous effort our forefathers put into the Constitution, state sovereignty was fought for and lost. There are so many references to ...rights are reserved to the states (or the people) unless specifically given to the federal govt but they seem to be lost when the gov or some loud yelling group wants it to be different. This is where things really went wrong - instead of those things not specifically relegated to the fed going to the state or the people, the fed is taking control of everything from soup to nuts! With the collusion of the supreme court it seems! Once the Constitutional comment about promote the general Welfare was declared to cover interstate commerce there was no limit to the gov power as it can be considered to include virtually everything and anything the gov wants it to mean. The constitution was wrotten to provide the principle of government power as a grant from the people, rather than individual rights being a grant from the government. And most directlly rights not listed are reserved to the states or to the people We have lost our way -- Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Royce Engler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise Max said... Also, nowhere in our (U.S.) constitution is there a right to vote. Not in the bill of rights, not in the articles. In other words (I think - someone correct me if I'm wrong), it would not take a constitutional amendment to change our current system, just a majority vote passed into law by a state legislature... - I can't believe you missed it...it's right there next to a woman's right to murder an unborn child, and the right for two beings to be married, regardless of anything. As far as the states being able to control their own voting processes, I think the Voting Rights Act speaks for that (Not that there's anything in the Constitution that authorizes THAT little gem of legislation)...oh, but it only applies to SOUTHERN states, so I guess the northern states could do it. Heinlein's approach to suffrage is a lot like John Stuart Mill's... To quote Supreme Court Justice Salmon P. Chase, who served from 1864 to 1873, State sovereignty died at Appomattox. Royce - an unreconstructed Southerner ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Orelegated alternative forms of voter franchise on to forms of marriage
Royce wrote the right for two beings to be married, regardless of anything I'm not familiar with the wording of the recently passed legislation -- does it specify 2 people ? or can it be 3,4,5 or more? What about father marrying son, daughter or the family dog? Many of those things do go more than a bit beyond sanity, though the gay thing never bothered me. My marriage to my Darling Wife isn't affected at all by theirs, and I don't understand the idea that somehow it is made less important when Mike and Jerry [two good friends who have been in a monogamous relationship for 15 years] are able to marry. They are more married than a lot of heterosexual couples. That one doesn't bother me at all. I won't go into the religious stuff as it has been worked over already - even if not here. Nothing there that changes my mind either. BillR ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Orelegated alternative forms of voter franchise on toforms of marriage
Bill R wrote: My marriage to my Darling Wife isn't affected at all by theirs, I just want to know why government ever got involved in marriage in the first place. We got along for thousands of years without government meddling in marriages. I think that marriage is one of those rights reserved to the people in the Ninth and Tenth Amendments. Demanding that we ask government for a license to marry makes as much sense as demanding that we apply for breathing licenses. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Orelegated alternative forms of voter franchise on toforms of marriage
It's all about property - who gets what when one of the pair dies, which offspring inherit what and when. If there were no property issues, then Government wouldn't care (unless it is a religious State, in which they care about EVERYTHING). Marriage is a legal contract regarding property, Snook - am I close? On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 2:43 PM, Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bill R wrote: My marriage to my Darling Wife isn't affected at all by theirs, I just want to know why government ever got involved in marriage in the first place. We got along for thousands of years without government meddling in marriages. I think that marriage is one of those rights reserved to the people in the Ninth and Tenth Amendments. Demanding that we ask government for a license to marry makes as much sense as demanding that we apply for breathing licenses. Mitch. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain '90 300D (Rattled), '92 300D (Saber), ' '81 240D (Gramps), '97 Ply Grand Voyager (Vincent van-go) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Orelegated alternative forms of voter franchise on toforms of marriage
I was going to respond, but OK Don said it better, I think. BillR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mitch Haley Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 3:43 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Orelegated alternative forms of voter franchise on toforms of marriage Bill R wrote: My marriage to my Darling Wife isn't affected at all by theirs, I just want to know why government ever got involved in marriage in the first place. We got along for thousands of years without government meddling in marriages. I think that marriage is one of those rights reserved to the people in the Ninth and Tenth Amendments. Demanding that we ask government for a license to marry makes as much sense as demanding that we apply for breathing licenses. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Orelegated alternative forms of voter franchise on
Ok Don wrote: Marriage is a legal contract regarding property, Snook - am I close? Practically speaking that is pretty accurate. Marriage was, of course, a practice that was solely governed by ecclesiastical (church law) law. It has since been governed by civil law and it does seem that the only concern has the control and disposition of property. Donald H. Snook ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
