Re: [MBZ] Well, they are going to total it

2011-10-21 Thread Craig
On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 07:30:55 -0400 Mitch Haley  wrote:

> Is $3778 the car's replacement value, or the check they'll write after
> deductible?

The check they will write after the deductible.

Thanks for pointing that out; I had forgotten about it.

That would make their offer $4028.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Well, they are going to total it

2011-10-21 Thread Dan Penoff
Didn't know that. I just assumed they were both done by the NADA.

Learn something new every day...

Dan

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 21, 2011, at 12:51 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin"  wrote:

> http://www.blackbookusa.com/
> 
> http://www.nadaguides.com/
> 
> 2 different companies
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Oct 21, 2011, at 11:45 AM, Mitch Haley  wrote:
> 
>> Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
>>> Nada and Black Book are 2 different things/companies.
>> 
>> What do they call the NADA 'Collector's Car Guide'?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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Re: [MBZ] Well, they are going to total it

2011-10-21 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin
http://www.blackbookusa.com/

http://www.nadaguides.com/

2 different companies

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 21, 2011, at 11:45 AM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

> Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
>> Nada and Black Book are 2 different things/companies.
> 
> What do they call the NADA 'Collector's Car Guide'?
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] Well, they are going to total it

2011-10-21 Thread Mitch Haley

Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

Nada and Black Book are 2 different things/companies.


What do they call the NADA 'Collector's Car Guide'?



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Re: [MBZ] Well, they are going to total it

2011-10-21 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin
Nada and Black Book are 2 different things/companies.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 21, 2011, at 10:12 AM, LWB250  wrote:

> Yes, banks can also subscribe to the NADA Black Book.
> 
> My dad had them around when he worked for GMAC, which was nice.  Don't know 
> what a subscription costs, but I'm sure they're not cheap.  I believe they 
> were updated every couple of weeks, too.
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Allan Streib 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 10:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Well, they are going to total it
> 
> Dan Penoff  writes:
> 
>> NADA Black Book is the one to have. A dealer only subscription
>> service, it is very accurate, especially on a local market basis.
> 
> Is this also the book the banks use to decide if they will make a loan
> on a particular car?  My local credit union will let members use their
> "book" to see what cars are worth.
> 
> Allan
> -- 
> 1983 300D
> 1979 300SD
> 
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] Well, they are going to total it

2011-10-21 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin
How much to buy it back? Surely it can be fixed fairly easily

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 20, 2011, at 11:40 PM, Craig  wrote:

> I called my insurance company today and found out they are going to total
> our '94 E420. I'm planning on buying it back and bringing it home so I can
> get some parts off it.
> 
> The values I found for the car are all over the map:
> 
> -
> 
> http://www.kbb.com/mercedes-benz/e-class/1994-mercedes-benz-e-class/e420-sedan-4d/?vehicleid=9458&intent=trade-in-sell&options=348026|true&mileage=124000&category=sedan&pricetype=private-party&quizconditions=1|1|0|2|0|0|0|0|1|0|0|0|0|0|0|1
> 
> Excellent $5,875
> Good $5,425
> Fair $4,725
> 
> -
> 
> http://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-benz/e-class/1994/tmv-appraise-results.html
> 
> Pricing Details for a Mercedes-Benz E-ClassSedan E420
> 4.2L V8 4-speed Automatic
> Customized True Market Value_ Prices
> 
> Private   Dealer
>Trade-In  PartyRetail
> National Base Price   $981$1,510   $2,392
> Optional Equipment  $8   $11  $19
> Power Rear Sunshade $8   $11  $19
> Color Adjustment - White$1$1   $2
> Regional Adjustment
>   - for Zip Code 87544   $-10  $-16 $-26
> Mileage Adjustment
>   - 124,000 miles$536  $536 $536
> Condition Adjustment
>   - Average $-258 $-390$-606
>Total   $1,258$1,652   $2,317
> 
> -
> 
> http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/1994/Mercedes-Benz/E-Class/Sedan-4D-E420/Values
> 
> Pricing
>  Rough   Average   Clean   Clean
> Trade-In Trade-In Trade-In Retail
> Base Price$  675   $1,675   $2,525  $3,875
> Mileage: 124,000  $1,262   $1,262   $1,262  $1,262
> TOTAL PRICE   $1,937   $2,937   $3,787  $5,137 
> 
> -
> 
> I would say the car was in average/fair condition.
> Kelly Blue Book says the highest,  $4,725.
> Edmunds says the lowest,   $1,652.
> NADA Average Trade-In corrected by the ratio of Clean Retail
> Base Price to Clean Trade-In Base Price plus Mileage
>   [1675*(3875/2525)+1262] is $3,833.
> 
> USAA is offering me $3778.03. I'm fairly certain this will raise our
> insurance rates.
> 
> Craig
> 
> ___
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> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] Well, they are going to total it

2011-10-21 Thread Mitch Haley

Allan Streib wrote:


Is this also the book the banks use to decide if they will make a loan
on a particular car?  My local credit union will let members use their
"book" to see what cars are worth.


My CU has the yellow book subscription, but those only go back 8 years.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Well, they are going to total it

2011-10-21 Thread Mitch Haley

Craig wrote:


What were you going to try to sell it for?


$3500


Sounds like you're all set.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Well, they are going to total it

2011-10-21 Thread Craig
On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 07:39:23 -0400 Mitch Haley  wrote:

> Maybe you can replace it for $3500. OTOH, you had that car pretty much
> sorted out, and anything you buy to replace it will likely need some
> money and time thrown into it.

That's a good point, but the one to replace it is the '95 E320 I bought
from Don Snook.


> This one is probably worth more than yours, and they've already posted
> it on CL 21 times since 9-13.
> http://albuquerque.craigslist.org/ctd/2656954738.html

The ad doesn't say what year it is, but it's not a W124 and is newer than
1994. BTW, what is all that junk below "spliter"?


> Maybe swap wheels and anything else you want with the 320, refuse the
> $3778, see if they'll bump it up $500 to close out the claim, and take
> your money.

I'm planning on bringing the car home and swapping wheels, etc.


> What were you going to try to sell it for?

$3500


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Well, they are going to total it

2011-10-21 Thread LWB250
Yes, banks can also subscribe to the NADA Black Book.

My dad had them around when he worked for GMAC, which was nice.  Don't know 
what a subscription costs, but I'm sure they're not cheap.  I believe they were 
updated every couple of weeks, too.

Dan





From: Allan Streib 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Well, they are going to total it

Dan Penoff  writes:

> NADA Black Book is the one to have. A dealer only subscription
> service, it is very accurate, especially on a local market basis.

Is this also the book the banks use to decide if they will make a loan
on a particular car?  My local credit union will let members use their
"book" to see what cars are worth.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] Well, they are going to total it

2011-10-21 Thread Allan Streib
Dan Penoff  writes:

> NADA is the only real reference out there. I always love looking at
> Kelley BB, as the trade in values obviously benefit the dealer as do
> the resale prices

KBB is funny... their dealer retail prices only show the values for cars
in "excellent" condition as if dealers really do much more than a
quick detail cleaning to the trade-ins they get before they go out on
the used car lot.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] Well, they are going to total it

2011-10-21 Thread Allan Streib
Jaime Kopchinski  writes:

> Its interesting how high the estimate was for really minor damage.

Insurance companies will start getting nervous once the estimate gets
above 50% of the vehicle value.  They know if it was hit that hard there
is often hidden damage that is not evident until repairs are started.
Rather then end up on the hook for repairs that cost more than the
vehicle is worth, they will just offer a write-off at that point.

Fortunately it sounds like that was not the case for you.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] Well, they are going to total it

2011-10-21 Thread Allan Streib
Dan Penoff  writes:

> NADA Black Book is the one to have. A dealer only subscription
> service, it is very accurate, especially on a local market basis.

Is this also the book the banks use to decide if they will make a loan
on a particular car?  My local credit union will let members use their
"book" to see what cars are worth.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] Well, they are going to total it

2011-10-21 Thread Jaime Kopchinski
$400-500... I forget exactly.  The other guy's company wanted $700.

On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 7:59 AM, Dan Penoff  wrote:

> Jaime,
>
> What was the buyout from your insurance company, if I might ask?
>
> Dan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 21, 2011, at 7:55 AM, Jaime Kopchinski  wrote:
>
> > For your reference, I was just paid about $6500 for my '95 E320 wagon
> with
> > 110k miles by my insurance company. (Also note the "other guys" insurance
> > wanted to pay me $5000.)
> >
> > I found that to be more than enough to buy the parts (original MB) and
> > repair the car properly, so I did.  Just got it back this week.  Damage
> was
> > to a front fender and bumper, but didn't effect the hood or inner fender.
> > Its interesting how high the estimate was for really minor damage.
> >
> > Jaime
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 12:40 AM, Craig  wrote:
> >
> >> I called my insurance company today and found out they are going to
> total
> >> our '94 E420. I'm planning on buying it back and bringing it home so I
> can
> >> get some parts off it.
> >>
> >> The values I found for the car are all over the map:
> >>
> >> -
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://www.kbb.com/mercedes-benz/e-class/1994-mercedes-benz-e-class/e420-sedan-4d/?vehicleid=9458&intent=trade-in-sell&options=348026|true&mileage=124000&category=sedan&pricetype=private-party&quizconditions=1|1|0|2|0|0|0|0|1|0|0|0|0|0|0|1
> >>
> >> Excellent $5,875
> >> Good $5,425
> >> Fair $4,725
> >>
> >> -
> >>
> >>
> http://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-benz/e-class/1994/tmv-appraise-results.html
> >>
> >> Pricing Details for a Mercedes-Benz E-ClassSedan E420
> >> 4.2L V8 4-speed Automatic
> >> Customized True Market Value_ Prices
> >>
> >>Private   Dealer
> >>   Trade-In  PartyRetail
> >> National Base Price   $981$1,510   $2,392
> >> Optional Equipment  $8   $11  $19
> >> Power Rear Sunshade $8   $11  $19
> >> Color Adjustment - White$1$1   $2
> >> Regional Adjustment
> >>  - for Zip Code 87544   $-10  $-16 $-26
> >> Mileage Adjustment
> >>  - 124,000 miles$536  $536 $536
> >> Condition Adjustment
> >>  - Average $-258 $-390$-606
> >>   Total   $1,258$1,652   $2,317
> >>
> >> -
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/1994/Mercedes-Benz/E-Class/Sedan-4D-E420/Values
> >>
> >> Pricing
> >> Rough   Average   Clean   Clean
> >>Trade-In Trade-In Trade-In Retail
> >> Base Price$  675   $1,675   $2,525  $3,875
> >> Mileage: 124,000  $1,262   $1,262   $1,262  $1,262
> >> TOTAL PRICE   $1,937   $2,937   $3,787  $5,137
> >>
> >> -
> >>
> >> I would say the car was in average/fair condition.
> >> Kelly Blue Book says the highest,  $4,725.
> >> Edmunds says the lowest,   $1,652.
> >> NADA Average Trade-In corrected by the ratio of Clean Retail
> >> Base Price to Clean Trade-In Base Price plus Mileage
> >>  [1675*(3875/2525)+1262] is $3,833.
> >>
> >> USAA is offering me $3778.03. I'm fairly certain this will raise our
> >> insurance rates.
> >>
> >> Craig
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> > ___
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> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Well, they are going to total it

2011-10-21 Thread Dan Penoff
NADA is the only real reference out there. I always love looking at Kelley BB, 
as the trade in values obviously benefit the dealer as do the resale prices

NADA Black Book is the one to have. A dealer only subscription service, it is 
very accurate, especially on a local market basis.

Dan

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 21, 2011, at 7:30 AM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

> I'm sure you know the $2300 Edmund's retail is a joke. Go to a used car 
> dealer and see what $2300 really buys.
> 
> Is $3778 the car's replacement value, or the check they'll write after 
> deductible?
> 
> Depending on condition, you might be able to replace it for $3500+tax, but 
> I'm pretty sure that would have to be a private party, not retail, deal.
> 
> Where's the car now? Is it at your house? You don't want things like your 
> wheels and new tires to start disappearing while you still own it.
> 
> Mitch.
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] Well, they are going to total it

2011-10-21 Thread Dan Penoff
Jaime,

What was the buyout from your insurance company, if I might ask?

Dan

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 21, 2011, at 7:55 AM, Jaime Kopchinski  wrote:

> For your reference, I was just paid about $6500 for my '95 E320 wagon with
> 110k miles by my insurance company. (Also note the "other guys" insurance
> wanted to pay me $5000.)
> 
> I found that to be more than enough to buy the parts (original MB) and
> repair the car properly, so I did.  Just got it back this week.  Damage was
> to a front fender and bumper, but didn't effect the hood or inner fender.
> Its interesting how high the estimate was for really minor damage.
> 
> Jaime
> 
> 
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 12:40 AM, Craig  wrote:
> 
>> I called my insurance company today and found out they are going to total
>> our '94 E420. I'm planning on buying it back and bringing it home so I can
>> get some parts off it.
>> 
>> The values I found for the car are all over the map:
>> 
>> -
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.kbb.com/mercedes-benz/e-class/1994-mercedes-benz-e-class/e420-sedan-4d/?vehicleid=9458&intent=trade-in-sell&options=348026|true&mileage=124000&category=sedan&pricetype=private-party&quizconditions=1|1|0|2|0|0|0|0|1|0|0|0|0|0|0|1
>> 
>> Excellent $5,875
>> Good $5,425
>> Fair $4,725
>> 
>> -
>> 
>> http://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-benz/e-class/1994/tmv-appraise-results.html
>> 
>> Pricing Details for a Mercedes-Benz E-ClassSedan E420
>> 4.2L V8 4-speed Automatic
>> Customized True Market Value_ Prices
>> 
>>Private   Dealer
>>   Trade-In  PartyRetail
>> National Base Price   $981$1,510   $2,392
>> Optional Equipment  $8   $11  $19
>> Power Rear Sunshade $8   $11  $19
>> Color Adjustment - White$1$1   $2
>> Regional Adjustment
>>  - for Zip Code 87544   $-10  $-16 $-26
>> Mileage Adjustment
>>  - 124,000 miles$536  $536 $536
>> Condition Adjustment
>>  - Average $-258 $-390$-606
>>   Total   $1,258$1,652   $2,317
>> 
>> -
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/1994/Mercedes-Benz/E-Class/Sedan-4D-E420/Values
>> 
>> Pricing
>> Rough   Average   Clean   Clean
>>Trade-In Trade-In Trade-In Retail
>> Base Price$  675   $1,675   $2,525  $3,875
>> Mileage: 124,000  $1,262   $1,262   $1,262  $1,262
>> TOTAL PRICE   $1,937   $2,937   $3,787  $5,137
>> 
>> -
>> 
>> I would say the car was in average/fair condition.
>> Kelly Blue Book says the highest,  $4,725.
>> Edmunds says the lowest,   $1,652.
>> NADA Average Trade-In corrected by the ratio of Clean Retail
>> Base Price to Clean Trade-In Base Price plus Mileage
>>  [1675*(3875/2525)+1262] is $3,833.
>> 
>> USAA is offering me $3778.03. I'm fairly certain this will raise our
>> insurance rates.
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Well, they are going to total it

2011-10-21 Thread Jaime Kopchinski
For your reference, I was just paid about $6500 for my '95 E320 wagon with
110k miles by my insurance company. (Also note the "other guys" insurance
wanted to pay me $5000.)

I found that to be more than enough to buy the parts (original MB) and
repair the car properly, so I did.  Just got it back this week.  Damage was
to a front fender and bumper, but didn't effect the hood or inner fender.
Its interesting how high the estimate was for really minor damage.

Jaime


On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 12:40 AM, Craig  wrote:

> I called my insurance company today and found out they are going to total
> our '94 E420. I'm planning on buying it back and bringing it home so I can
> get some parts off it.
>
> The values I found for the car are all over the map:
>
> -
>
>
> http://www.kbb.com/mercedes-benz/e-class/1994-mercedes-benz-e-class/e420-sedan-4d/?vehicleid=9458&intent=trade-in-sell&options=348026|true&mileage=124000&category=sedan&pricetype=private-party&quizconditions=1|1|0|2|0|0|0|0|1|0|0|0|0|0|0|1
>
> Excellent $5,875
> Good $5,425
> Fair $4,725
>
> -
>
> http://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-benz/e-class/1994/tmv-appraise-results.html
>
> Pricing Details for a Mercedes-Benz E-ClassSedan E420
> 4.2L V8 4-speed Automatic
> Customized True Market Value_ Prices
>
> Private   Dealer
>Trade-In  PartyRetail
> National Base Price   $981$1,510   $2,392
> Optional Equipment  $8   $11  $19
> Power Rear Sunshade $8   $11  $19
> Color Adjustment - White$1$1   $2
> Regional Adjustment
>   - for Zip Code 87544   $-10  $-16 $-26
> Mileage Adjustment
>   - 124,000 miles$536  $536 $536
> Condition Adjustment
>   - Average $-258 $-390$-606
>Total   $1,258$1,652   $2,317
>
> -
>
>
> http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/1994/Mercedes-Benz/E-Class/Sedan-4D-E420/Values
>
> Pricing
>  Rough   Average   Clean   Clean
> Trade-In Trade-In Trade-In Retail
> Base Price$  675   $1,675   $2,525  $3,875
> Mileage: 124,000  $1,262   $1,262   $1,262  $1,262
> TOTAL PRICE   $1,937   $2,937   $3,787  $5,137
>
> -
>
> I would say the car was in average/fair condition.
> Kelly Blue Book says the highest,  $4,725.
> Edmunds says the lowest,   $1,652.
> NADA Average Trade-In corrected by the ratio of Clean Retail
> Base Price to Clean Trade-In Base Price plus Mileage
>   [1675*(3875/2525)+1262] is $3,833.
>
> USAA is offering me $3778.03. I'm fairly certain this will raise our
> insurance rates.
>
> Craig
>
> ___
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Well, they are going to total it

2011-10-21 Thread Mitch Haley
Maybe you can replace it for $3500. OTOH, you had that car pretty much sorted 
out, and anything you buy to replace it will likely need some money and time 
thrown into it.


This one is probably worth more than yours, and they've already posted it on CL 
21 times since 9-13.

http://albuquerque.craigslist.org/ctd/2656954738.html

Maybe swap wheels and anything else you want with the 320, refuse the $3778, see 
if they'll bump it up $500 to close out the claim, and take your money.


What were you going to try to sell it for?


Mitch Haley wrote:
Depending on condition, you might be able to replace it for $3500+tax, 
but I'm pretty sure that would have to be a private party, not retail, 
deal.



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Re: [MBZ] Well, they are going to total it

2011-10-21 Thread Mitch Haley
I'm sure you know the $2300 Edmund's retail is a joke. Go to a used car dealer 
and see what $2300 really buys.


Is $3778 the car's replacement value, or the check they'll write after 
deductible?

Depending on condition, you might be able to replace it for $3500+tax, but I'm 
pretty sure that would have to be a private party, not retail, deal.


Where's the car now? Is it at your house? You don't want things like your wheels 
and new tires to start disappearing while you still own it.


Mitch.


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[MBZ] Well, they are going to total it

2011-10-20 Thread Craig
I called my insurance company today and found out they are going to total
our '94 E420. I'm planning on buying it back and bringing it home so I can
get some parts off it.

The values I found for the car are all over the map:

-

http://www.kbb.com/mercedes-benz/e-class/1994-mercedes-benz-e-class/e420-sedan-4d/?vehicleid=9458&intent=trade-in-sell&options=348026|true&mileage=124000&category=sedan&pricetype=private-party&quizconditions=1|1|0|2|0|0|0|0|1|0|0|0|0|0|0|1

Excellent $5,875
Good $5,425
Fair $4,725

-

http://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-benz/e-class/1994/tmv-appraise-results.html

Pricing Details for a Mercedes-Benz E-ClassSedan E420
4.2L V8 4-speed Automatic
Customized True Market Value_ Prices

 Private   Dealer
Trade-In  PartyRetail
National Base Price   $981$1,510   $2,392
Optional Equipment  $8   $11  $19
Power Rear Sunshade $8   $11  $19
Color Adjustment - White$1$1   $2
Regional Adjustment
   - for Zip Code 87544   $-10  $-16 $-26
Mileage Adjustment
   - 124,000 miles$536  $536 $536
Condition Adjustment
   - Average $-258 $-390$-606
Total   $1,258$1,652   $2,317

-

http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/1994/Mercedes-Benz/E-Class/Sedan-4D-E420/Values

Pricing
  Rough   Average   Clean   Clean
 Trade-In Trade-In Trade-In Retail
Base Price$  675   $1,675   $2,525  $3,875
Mileage: 124,000  $1,262   $1,262   $1,262  $1,262
TOTAL PRICE   $1,937   $2,937   $3,787  $5,137 

-

I would say the car was in average/fair condition.
Kelly Blue Book says the highest,  $4,725.
Edmunds says the lowest,   $1,652.
NADA Average Trade-In corrected by the ratio of Clean Retail
Base Price to Clean Trade-In Base Price plus Mileage
   [1675*(3875/2525)+1262] is $3,833.

USAA is offering me $3778.03. I'm fairly certain this will raise our
insurance rates.

Craig

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