Re: [MBZ] [Daveslist] 606 ip timing
Yes, all versions. Max Dillon Charleston SC Aug 14, 2021 8:19:39 PM OK Don via Mercedes : > Does the 606 have a cat??? > I use a piece of welding rod to find TDC for each cylinder on the > Continental O-470 - works close enough. > > On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 6:36 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> On 2021-08-14 18:43, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: >>> Good idea, and good to know that diesel fuel won't run down into the >>> crankcase very quickly and contaminate the motor oil. >> >> Good point. >> Diesel doesn't belong in the crankcase, and motor oil doesn't belong in >> the exhaust. >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > > -- > OK Don > > "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to > pause and reflect." Mark Twain > > “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.” Wernher > Von Braun > 2013 F150, 18 mpg > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] [Daveslist] 606 ip timing
It is adjusted all the way to the left with no adjustment left and timing is sitting at 5 atdc. On 8/14/2021 7:32 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote: Why not just trust your A/B light and make the adjustment? Short of someone having twisted the pump around, and I can’t imagine it could move that far, the A/B light should be dead nuts accurate. I think you’re making far more out of this than it needs to be. -D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] [Daveslist] 606 ip timing
Why not just trust your A/B light and make the adjustment? Short of someone having twisted the pump around, and I can’t imagine it could move that far, the A/B light should be dead nuts accurate. I think you’re making far more out of this than it needs to be. -D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] [Daveslist] 606 ip timing
Does the 606 have a cat??? I use a piece of welding rod to find TDC for each cylinder on the Continental O-470 - works close enough. On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 6:36 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > On 2021-08-14 18:43, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: > > Good idea, and good to know that diesel fuel won't run down into the > > crankcase very quickly and contaminate the motor oil. > > Good point. > Diesel doesn't belong in the crankcase, and motor oil doesn't belong in > the exhaust. > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > -- OK Don "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.” Wernher Von Braun 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] [Daveslist] 606 ip timing
On 2021-08-14 18:43, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: Good idea, and good to know that diesel fuel won't run down into the crankcase very quickly and contaminate the motor oil. Good point. Diesel doesn't belong in the crankcase, and motor oil doesn't belong in the exhaust. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] [Daveslist] 606 ip timing
That stretch sounds right. If the pointer was close to TDC when you had the drill bit shoved into the hole, that's not your problem and you need to pull and adjust the IP. DON'T FORGET to get a new oil seal o-ring for the IP!!! - Max Charleston SC On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 6:49 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > I just pulled the valve cover. Apparently there is a special tool you use > to stick in a hole at tdc. I did not have that so I just used a drill bit > of a size that fits in the hole. It’s not exact but should be close enough > and shows maybe 1-2 degrees of stretch at 207k miles. Looks good to me. I > guess next I need to just pull the pump and put it back like it should be. > Will need to order new gaskets first and really need to try to get that > broken off bolt out of the adjuster and get that fixed properly. What > turned into a planned hour long job will take the car down until next > weekend. That would seem to indicate the pointer is in the right spot, > unless it’s off as is the chain stretch > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Aug 14, 2021, at 5:28 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > On the peach parts forum, one guy said that he would find TDC (and be > able > > to reset the pointer) by filling that cylinder with motor oil through the > > injector hole. Take that injector apart, remove the nozzle and holder > and > > all the guts and use the body of the injector to plug the hole, then > shove > > a clear tube over the end of the injector so it stuck up above the valve > > cover a good bit. Fill up the injector and the tube so you can see the > oil > > move up and down as the piston moves, and then you can move the crank > back > > and forth to find the high point for the oil. Stop there, set your > pointer. > > > > Next, drain / suck out all the oil, probably end up with a real mess down > > the exhaust manifold so you may have to figure a way to drain that oil so > > it doesn't kill the catalytic converter. Replace the injector guts and > put > > that back in place. > > - > > Max > > Charleston SC > > > > > >> On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 6:19 PM Meade Dillon > wrote: > >> > >> So if the pointer got moved, but the pump didn't ever get moved, then > most > >> likely the chain is now stretched and the pump is late. So if you just > >> want to take a guess and move the pump to see if you can improve the > smoke > >> situation, then I'd say advance it a few degrees and see how she runs. > >> - > >> Max > >> Charleston SC > >> > >> > >>> On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 6:17 PM Meade Dillon > wrote: > >>> > >>> Yes you need to pull the vacuum pump, and the nut on the end of the IP > >>> shaft is backward - left-handed thread, IIRC. > >>> > >>> If you go that far and pull the IP, the oil seal (big o-ring) on the > >>> injection pump may start leaking, if you don't replace it. > >>> > >>> - > >>> Max > >>> Charleston SC > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 6:15 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < > >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >>> > Either that or the pump was removed at some point and when reinstalled > was off a tooth. Perhaps I should just pull the pump and see. Oh wait, > won’t I also have to pull the vacuum pump as well? Not really sure I > want > to get into all that although it probably won’t take all that long > since I > have it pulled apart this far. > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] [Daveslist] 606 ip timing
I just pulled the valve cover. Apparently there is a special tool you use to stick in a hole at tdc. I did not have that so I just used a drill bit of a size that fits in the hole. It’s not exact but should be close enough and shows maybe 1-2 degrees of stretch at 207k miles. Looks good to me. I guess next I need to just pull the pump and put it back like it should be. Will need to order new gaskets first and really need to try to get that broken off bolt out of the adjuster and get that fixed properly. What turned into a planned hour long job will take the car down until next weekend. That would seem to indicate the pointer is in the right spot, unless it’s off as is the chain stretch Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 14, 2021, at 5:28 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes > wrote: > > On the peach parts forum, one guy said that he would find TDC (and be able > to reset the pointer) by filling that cylinder with motor oil through the > injector hole. Take that injector apart, remove the nozzle and holder and > all the guts and use the body of the injector to plug the hole, then shove > a clear tube over the end of the injector so it stuck up above the valve > cover a good bit. Fill up the injector and the tube so you can see the oil > move up and down as the piston moves, and then you can move the crank back > and forth to find the high point for the oil. Stop there, set your pointer. > > Next, drain / suck out all the oil, probably end up with a real mess down > the exhaust manifold so you may have to figure a way to drain that oil so > it doesn't kill the catalytic converter. Replace the injector guts and put > that back in place. > - > Max > Charleston SC > > >> On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 6:19 PM Meade Dillon wrote: >> >> So if the pointer got moved, but the pump didn't ever get moved, then most >> likely the chain is now stretched and the pump is late. So if you just >> want to take a guess and move the pump to see if you can improve the smoke >> situation, then I'd say advance it a few degrees and see how she runs. >> - >> Max >> Charleston SC >> >> >>> On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 6:17 PM Meade Dillon wrote: >>> >>> Yes you need to pull the vacuum pump, and the nut on the end of the IP >>> shaft is backward - left-handed thread, IIRC. >>> >>> If you go that far and pull the IP, the oil seal (big o-ring) on the >>> injection pump may start leaking, if you don't replace it. >>> >>> - >>> Max >>> Charleston SC >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 6:15 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: >>> Either that or the pump was removed at some point and when reinstalled was off a tooth. Perhaps I should just pull the pump and see. Oh wait, won’t I also have to pull the vacuum pump as well? Not really sure I want to get into all that although it probably won’t take all that long since I have it pulled apart this far. > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] [Daveslist] 606 ip timing
Good idea, and good to know that diesel fuel won't run down into the crankcase very quickly and contaminate the motor oil. - Max Charleston SC On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 6:41 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > On 2021-08-14 18:27, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: > > On the peach parts forum, one guy said that he would find TDC (and be > > able > > to reset the pointer) by filling that cylinder with motor oil through > > the > > I'd use diesel fuel instead of motor oil. > I'm sure the cat could deal with diesel more easily than motor oil. > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] [Daveslist] 606 ip timing
On 2021-08-14 18:27, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: On the peach parts forum, one guy said that he would find TDC (and be able to reset the pointer) by filling that cylinder with motor oil through the I'd use diesel fuel instead of motor oil. I'm sure the cat could deal with diesel more easily than motor oil. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] [Daveslist] 606 ip timing
All that tells me that the pump was pulled and put back wrong. You need a new oil seal for the IP most likely. - Max Charleston SC On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 6:15 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Either that or the pump was removed at some point and when reinstalled was > off a tooth. Perhaps I should just pull the pump and see. Oh wait, won’t I > also have to pull the vacuum pump as well? Not really sure I want to get > into all that although it probably won’t take all that long since I have it > pulled apart this far. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Aug 14, 2021, at 5:13 PM, Kaleb Striplin wrote: > > > > I ended up managing to break off the small bolt that holds the lower > adjuster to the block. This happened because the pump was adjusted as far > as if would go to the left (drivers side) at this point I get both lights > lit up and it’s at 5-6 atdc. I went ahead and pulled the manifold to get a > better look. > > > > With the manifold off I wonder if I should go ahead and check the chain > stretch. Once again I say if the chain was stretched it would be after 14 > before we got both lights on. I can only assume since the thing runs just > fine except for the light smoke, the pointer has moved at some point and it > probably needs new nozzles. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On Aug 14, 2021, at 3:07 PM, Kaleb Striplin wrote: > >> > >> The 99 runs fine and has plenty of power, and sounds fine but I get > the grey/black smoke at idle and black smoke under heavy pedal. I just > hooked up my AB light to the ip and it appears to be coming up at 5-6 atdc. > Spec is 14, correct? I wonder why the timing is off that much, or am I > doing something wrong? I assume that would cause the smoke I am getting? > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] [Daveslist] 606 ip timing
On the peach parts forum, one guy said that he would find TDC (and be able to reset the pointer) by filling that cylinder with motor oil through the injector hole. Take that injector apart, remove the nozzle and holder and all the guts and use the body of the injector to plug the hole, then shove a clear tube over the end of the injector so it stuck up above the valve cover a good bit. Fill up the injector and the tube so you can see the oil move up and down as the piston moves, and then you can move the crank back and forth to find the high point for the oil. Stop there, set your pointer. Next, drain / suck out all the oil, probably end up with a real mess down the exhaust manifold so you may have to figure a way to drain that oil so it doesn't kill the catalytic converter. Replace the injector guts and put that back in place. - Max Charleston SC On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 6:19 PM Meade Dillon wrote: > So if the pointer got moved, but the pump didn't ever get moved, then most > likely the chain is now stretched and the pump is late. So if you just > want to take a guess and move the pump to see if you can improve the smoke > situation, then I'd say advance it a few degrees and see how she runs. > - > Max > Charleston SC > > > On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 6:17 PM Meade Dillon wrote: > >> Yes you need to pull the vacuum pump, and the nut on the end of the IP >> shaft is backward - left-handed thread, IIRC. >> >> If you go that far and pull the IP, the oil seal (big o-ring) on the >> injection pump may start leaking, if you don't replace it. >> >> - >> Max >> Charleston SC >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 6:15 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: >> >>> Either that or the pump was removed at some point and when reinstalled >>> was off a tooth. Perhaps I should just pull the pump and see. Oh wait, >>> won’t I also have to pull the vacuum pump as well? Not really sure I want >>> to get into all that although it probably won’t take all that long since I >>> have it pulled apart this far. >>> >>> ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] [Daveslist] 606 ip timing
So if the pointer got moved, but the pump didn't ever get moved, then most likely the chain is now stretched and the pump is late. So if you just want to take a guess and move the pump to see if you can improve the smoke situation, then I'd say advance it a few degrees and see how she runs. - Max Charleston SC On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 6:17 PM Meade Dillon wrote: > Yes you need to pull the vacuum pump, and the nut on the end of the IP > shaft is backward - left-handed thread, IIRC. > > If you go that far and pull the IP, the oil seal (big o-ring) on the > injection pump may start leaking, if you don't replace it. > > - > Max > Charleston SC > > > On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 6:15 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> Either that or the pump was removed at some point and when reinstalled >> was off a tooth. Perhaps I should just pull the pump and see. Oh wait, >> won’t I also have to pull the vacuum pump as well? Not really sure I want >> to get into all that although it probably won’t take all that long since I >> have it pulled apart this far. >> >> ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] [Daveslist] 606 ip timing
Yes you need to pull the vacuum pump, and the nut on the end of the IP shaft is backward - left-handed thread, IIRC. If you go that far and pull the IP, the oil seal (big o-ring) on the injection pump may start leaking, if you don't replace it. - Max Charleston SC On Sat, Aug 14, 2021 at 6:15 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Either that or the pump was removed at some point and when reinstalled was > off a tooth. Perhaps I should just pull the pump and see. Oh wait, won’t I > also have to pull the vacuum pump as well? Not really sure I want to get > into all that although it probably won’t take all that long since I have it > pulled apart this far. > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] [Daveslist] 606 ip timing
Either that or the pump was removed at some point and when reinstalled was off a tooth. Perhaps I should just pull the pump and see. Oh wait, won’t I also have to pull the vacuum pump as well? Not really sure I want to get into all that although it probably won’t take all that long since I have it pulled apart this far. Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 14, 2021, at 5:13 PM, Kaleb Striplin wrote: > > I ended up managing to break off the small bolt that holds the lower > adjuster to the block. This happened because the pump was adjusted as far as > if would go to the left (drivers side) at this point I get both lights lit up > and it’s at 5-6 atdc. I went ahead and pulled the manifold to get a better > look. > > With the manifold off I wonder if I should go ahead and check the chain > stretch. Once again I say if the chain was stretched it would be after 14 > before we got both lights on. I can only assume since the thing runs just > fine except for the light smoke, the pointer has moved at some point and it > probably needs new nozzles. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 14, 2021, at 3:07 PM, Kaleb Striplin wrote: >> >> The 99 runs fine and has plenty of power, and sounds fine but I get the >> grey/black smoke at idle and black smoke under heavy pedal. I just hooked up >> my AB light to the ip and it appears to be coming up at 5-6 atdc. Spec is >> 14, correct? I wonder why the timing is off that much, or am I doing >> something wrong? I assume that would cause the smoke I am getting? >> >> Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
