Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Yes, and it seems that there are heads with numbers from 16 on up to 22. Attached is a picture of the casting of the part number from the head I just took off my wagon. It is a number 14 head, the number is found above the number two injector hole. This car has 330,000 miles, has been using a very small amount of coolant for years, but never had the hard upper hose when cold. Coolant was finally detected in the engine oil, I'm in the process of replacing with a number 17 head. On the old head, there are cracks between every intake and exhaust valve seat. Max -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: OK, so did all 87s come with the 14 head and then later some had them replaced? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2011, at 8:26 PM, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Wow, now that is the answer I was looking for! Thank you. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2011, at 8:16 PM, Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote: In the middle of the part number on the head is a two digit code -- the original is -14-. the first improved head is -17- and the best version is the -22- one. They crack through from the combustion chamber to the coolant and or oil passages, causing the usual results -- overheating, coolant use, etc. The head gaskets also fail pretty often, between cylinders and from cooling passages or oil return to the outside, resulting in leaks. Worst failure is between the oil passage across the front of the block -- failure here allows oil to enter the #1 cylinder under pressure. If enough gets in there, the #1 rod gets bent. All the bits from the -14- head will fit the -22-, with the proviso that it may be necessary to machine the pre-chambers to clear the bottom of the large hole in the heads. The correct ones, with inclined injectors, are a bit shorter at the shoulder, and if they don't fit correctly the pre-chamber will leak compression at the upper seal, usually badly enough that the engine will not run. Always use all new head bolts, they often fail when re-used, as I discovered on my old 300D. Peter _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMAG0115.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 176206 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://mail.okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20110731/8bffb39f/attachment.jpg ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net writes: This car has 330,000 miles, has been using a very small amount of coolant for years, but never had the hard upper hose when cold. I've had a question about this test, is this done with the engine running and cold (i.e. just after a cold start) or is the hose hard with the engine cold and off (i.e. after cool-down). Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Test is hard hose after cool down, engine not running. Requires a good coolant tank, which one should not assume by this age. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
But a 14 head is not a conviction. All of my 603s have or have had 14 heads. My original SDL was the best running of all and had over 400K on the 14 head. The last time this came up, the general discussion was that if the 14 head survived this long, it would probably live out its life. (Provided it is not overheated) all the rest have 200 to 300 K on them. I have never had the head off a 60x yet. Look for signs of leaking head gasket and signs of a cracked head. Wow, now that is the answer I was looking for! Thank you. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2011, at 8:16 PM, Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote: In the middle of the part number on the head is a two digit code -- the original is -14-. the first improved head is -17- and the best version is the -22- one. They crack through from the combustion chamber to the coolant and or oil passages, causing the usual results -- overheating, coolant use, etc. The head gaskets also fail pretty often, between cylinders and from cooling passages or oil return to the outside, resulting in leaks. Worst failure is between the oil passage across the front of the block -- failure here allows oil to enter the #1 cylinder under pressure. If enough gets in there, the #1 rod gets bent. All the bits from the -14- head will fit the -22-, with the proviso that it may be necessary to machine the pre-chambers to clear the bottom of the large hole in the heads. The correct ones, with inclined injectors, are a bit shorter at the shoulder, and if they don't fit correctly the pre-chamber will leak compression at the upper seal, usually badly enough that the engine will not run. Always use all new head bolts, they often fail when re-used, as I discovered on my old 300D. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
No, I think that is the later 124s which had weak evaporators and wiring harnesses that disintegrate. 1994 1995 I think, but now I'm remembering that Wilton replaced one for one of his cars Which one was that Wilton? Max -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: OK Don wrote: Bottom line, if I didn't see signs of a cracked head, I would not be afraid of the car. ... but would prefer to see evidence of a recent evaporator replacement. Mitch. _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Max Dillon wrote: No, I think that is the later 124s which had weak evaporators and wiring harnesses that disintegrate. 1994 1995 I think, but now I'm remembering that Wilton replaced one for one of his cars Which one was that Wilton? Wilton has a very well preserved 1987 sedan, he looked for a long time and bought the best one he found. The evap was upgraded over the years, but I don't know specifics. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Evaporator failures ran 15-30%, I believe (two out of three at our house), probably due to the use of copper pipes swagged onto aluminum cores. They crack at the junctions between the pipes and core as a general rule, although other failures are possible. The new ones are all aluminum, wonder of wonders, and don't crack that I know of. BIG job -- not really difficult, but very fiddlesome (dash has to come out completely) and very time consuming. Book time per MB is 16 hours, so the first one is more likely 20 for the average DIY type. Took me three days. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Chances are if the car has made it this far you are not going to have head problems. -Rolf On 7/30/2011 7:26 PM, Dimitri Seretakis wrote: Isn't their some concern with the 87 diesels? A certain problematic head or something? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Isn't this the one with a picture of a head gasket amongst other parts in the back? If there is no head problem why buy the parts?(unless you find a deal on them or something like that.) Worth asking about right? Maybe they know it has an early head and bought parts just in case? Mike On Jul 31, 2011 10:06 AM, Rolf r...@winmutt.com wrote: Chances are if the car has made it this far you are not going to have head problems. -Rolf On 7/30/2011 7:26 PM, Dimitri Seretakis wrote: Isn't their some concern with the 87 diesels? A certain problematic head or something? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Evapectomy on '87 300D built in Oct '86. Wilton - Original Message - From: Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car? No, I think that is the later 124s which had weak evaporators and wiring harnesses that disintegrate. 1994 1995 I think, but now I'm remembering that Wilton replaced one for one of his cars Which one was that Wilton? Max -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: OK Don wrote: Bottom line, if I didn't see signs of a cracked head, I would not be afraid of the car. ... but would prefer to see evidence of a recent evaporator replacement. Mitch. _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
'Tried to read # on my '87 300D head few minutes ago; 'looks like 603 016 1(maybe 4, can't be sure - not clear) etc.; so, is my head a 16 or a 14; I suspect it's a 14; 'never heard/known anything about its being changed. No prob with it now that I can tell. 123 kmi. Wilton - Original Message - From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car? That engine was sold in various versions (4, 5, and 6 cylinder) from 1984 to 1995 or so. The original design was part # 14, and it failed in service enough that by 1993 when the SDL was sold again it had the #17 head on it (nine years later(. The #14 was used on all OM603 engines sold in the US in 1986 and 1987, and probably all of them have cracked by now. If failed in normal service, not as a result of overheating, which can crack any of them. I'm not sure which one I had on the old 300D, the current car has had it replaced with a newer version. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
That's a 14 head, if the digit you're not sure of is a 4. Max -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote: 'Tried to read # on my '87 300D head few minutes ago; 'looks like 603 016 1(maybe 4, can't be sure - not clear) etc.; so, is my head a 16 or a 14; I suspect it's a 14; 'never heard/known anything about its being changed. No prob with it now that I can tell. 123 kmi. Wilton - Original Message - From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car? That engine was sold in various versions (4, 5, and 6 cylinder) from 1984 to 1995 or so. The original design was part # 14, and it failed in service enough that by 1993 when the SDL was sold again it had the #17 head on it (nine years later(. The #14 was used on all OM603 engines sold in the US in 1986 and 1987, and probably all of them have cracked by now. If failed in normal service, not as a result of overheating, which can crack any of them. I'm not sure which one I had on the old 300D, the current car has had it replaced with a newer version. Peter _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Well, it looks like a 4 more than anything else. The opening in the 4 is fairly well closed - not a clear point on left side, but I think it's a 4. Is it in the right place in the number to denote 14, 16, etc., - 2 digits by themselves. Wilton - Original Message - From: Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car? That's a 14 head, if the digit you're not sure of is a 4. Max -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote: 'Tried to read # on my '87 300D head few minutes ago; 'looks like 603 016 1(maybe 4, can't be sure - not clear) etc.; so, is my head a 16 or a 14; I suspect it's a 14; 'never heard/known anything about its being changed. No prob with it now that I can tell. 123 kmi. Wilton - Original Message - From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car? That engine was sold in various versions (4, 5, and 6 cylinder) from 1984 to 1995 or so. The original design was part # 14, and it failed in service enough that by 1993 when the SDL was sold again it had the #17 head on it (nine years later(. The #14 was used on all OM603 engines sold in the US in 1986 and 1987, and probably all of them have cracked by now. If failed in normal service, not as a result of overheating, which can crack any of them. I'm not sure which one I had on the old 300D, the current car has had it replaced with a newer version. Peter _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
'Just looked again. Head on my 87 300D is highly likely a 14; head on my 91 350SDL is clearly a 17. Wilton - Original Message - From: WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car? Well, it looks like a 4 more than anything else. The opening in the 4 is fairly well closed - not a clear point on left side, but I think it's a 4. Is it in the right place in the number to denote 14, 16, etc., - 2 digits by themselves. Wilton - Original Message - From: Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car? That's a 14 head, if the digit you're not sure of is a 4. Max -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote: 'Tried to read # on my '87 300D head few minutes ago; 'looks like 603 016 1(maybe 4, can't be sure - not clear) etc.; so, is my head a 16 or a 14; I suspect it's a 14; 'never heard/known anything about its being changed. No prob with it now that I can tell. 123 kmi. Wilton - Original Message - From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car? That engine was sold in various versions (4, 5, and 6 cylinder) from 1984 to 1995 or so. The original design was part # 14, and it failed in service enough that by 1993 when the SDL was sold again it had the #17 head on it (nine years later(. The #14 was used on all OM603 engines sold in the US in 1986 and 1987, and probably all of them have cracked by now. If failed in normal service, not as a result of overheating, which can crack any of them. I'm not sure which one I had on the old 300D, the current car has had it replaced with a newer version. Peter _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Some of them last forever, some cracked in 50k miles. You have a good one -- just don't ever let it get really hot, does them in every time. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Yes, that's the right position in the sequence. Max -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote: Well, it looks like a 4 more than anything else. The opening in the 4 is fairly well closed - not a clear point on left side, but I think it's a 4. Is it in the right place in the number to denote 14, 16, etc., - 2 digits by themselves. Wilton - Original Message - From: Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car? That's a 14 head, if the digit you're not sure of is a 4. Max -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote: 'Tried to read # on my '87 300D head few minutes ago; 'looks like 603 016 1(maybe 4, can't be sure - not clear) etc.; so, is my head a 16 or a 14; I suspect it's a 14; 'never heard/known anything about its being changed. No prob with it now that I can tell. 123 kmi. Wilton - Original Message - From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car? That engine was sold in various versions (4, 5, and 6 cylinder) from 1984 to 1995 or so. The original design was part # 14, and it failed in service enough that by 1993 when the SDL was sold again it had the #17 head on it (nine years later(. The #14 was used on all OM603 engines sold in the US in 1986 and 1987, and probably all of them have cracked by now. If failed in normal service, not as a result of overheating, which can crack any of them. I'm not sure which one I had on the old 300D, the current car has had it replaced with a newer version. Peter _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
The head is easily replaced. Else a standard W124 -- mine has about 350,000 miles on it and is doing pretty well for it's age! Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
My brother found one he's interested in. Is there a specific head to look out for? What is the problem with the heads? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2011, at 7:28 PM, Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote: The head is easily replaced. Else a standard W124 -- mine has about 350,000 miles on it and is doing pretty well for it's age! Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Well, the wagons look like a Ford Escort, according to someone here. On 7/30/11, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Isn't their some concern with the 87 diesels? A certain problematic head or something? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Sent from my mobile device ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Actually I think they're quite nice looking. It's the mechanicals I'm concerned about. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2011, at 8:05 PM, Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com wrote: Well, the wagons look like a Ford Escort, according to someone here. On 7/30/11, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Isn't their some concern with the 87 diesels? A certain problematic head or something? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Sent from my mobile device ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
In the middle of the part number on the head is a two digit code -- the original is -14-. the first improved head is -17- and the best version is the -22- one. They crack through from the combustion chamber to the coolant and or oil passages, causing the usual results -- overheating, coolant use, etc. The head gaskets also fail pretty often, between cylinders and from cooling passages or oil return to the outside, resulting in leaks. Worst failure is between the oil passage across the front of the block -- failure here allows oil to enter the #1 cylinder under pressure. If enough gets in there, the #1 rod gets bent. All the bits from the -14- head will fit the -22-, with the proviso that it may be necessary to machine the pre-chambers to clear the bottom of the large hole in the heads. The correct ones, with inclined injectors, are a bit shorter at the shoulder, and if they don't fit correctly the pre-chamber will leak compression at the upper seal, usually badly enough that the engine will not run. Always use all new head bolts, they often fail when re-used, as I discovered on my old 300D. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Wow, now that is the answer I was looking for! Thank you. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2011, at 8:16 PM, Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote: In the middle of the part number on the head is a two digit code -- the original is -14-. the first improved head is -17- and the best version is the -22- one. They crack through from the combustion chamber to the coolant and or oil passages, causing the usual results -- overheating, coolant use, etc. The head gaskets also fail pretty often, between cylinders and from cooling passages or oil return to the outside, resulting in leaks. Worst failure is between the oil passage across the front of the block -- failure here allows oil to enter the #1 cylinder under pressure. If enough gets in there, the #1 rod gets bent. All the bits from the -14- head will fit the -22-, with the proviso that it may be necessary to machine the pre-chambers to clear the bottom of the large hole in the heads. The correct ones, with inclined injectors, are a bit shorter at the shoulder, and if they don't fit correctly the pre-chamber will leak compression at the upper seal, usually badly enough that the engine will not run. Always use all new head bolts, they often fail when re-used, as I discovered on my old 300D. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Not that wagon. The newer ones, I forget the model but someone was selling one here not long ago I think. Mike On Jul 30, 2011 8:05 PM, Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com wrote: Well, the wagons look like a Ford Escort, according to someone here. On 7/30/11, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Isn't their some concern with the 87 diesels? A certain problematic head or something? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Sent from my mobile device ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Marshall, or someone else, posited that they defective #14 heads have all failed and been replaced by now. While not absolute, and overheating will still crack good heads, I think there might be some merit to that statement. The '87 SDL I had still had the original head at 200,000 miles and showed no signs of being cracked. A hard upper radiator hose on a cold engine is one possible indication of a crackede head, though not the only one. Bottom line, if I didn't see signs of a cracked head, I would not be afraid of the car. On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 7:16 PM, Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.netwrote: In the middle of the part number on the head is a two digit code -- the original is -14-. the first improved head is -17- and the best version is the -22- one. They crack through from the combustion chamber to the coolant and or oil passages, causing the usual results -- overheating, coolant use, etc. The head gaskets also fail pretty often, between cylinders and from cooling passages or oil return to the outside, resulting in leaks. Worst failure is between the oil passage across the front of the block -- failure here allows oil to enter the #1 cylinder under pressure. If enough gets in there, the #1 rod gets bent. All the bits from the -14- head will fit the -22-, with the proviso that it may be necessary to machine the pre-chambers to clear the bottom of the large hole in the heads. The correct ones, with inclined injectors, are a bit shorter at the shoulder, and if they don't fit correctly the pre-chamber will leak compression at the upper seal, usually badly enough that the engine will not run. Always use all new head bolts, they often fail when re-used, as I discovered on my old 300D. Peter -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
OK, so did all 87s come with the 14 head and then later some had them replaced? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2011, at 8:26 PM, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Wow, now that is the answer I was looking for! Thank you. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2011, at 8:16 PM, Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote: In the middle of the part number on the head is a two digit code -- the original is -14-. the first improved head is -17- and the best version is the -22- one. They crack through from the combustion chamber to the coolant and or oil passages, causing the usual results -- overheating, coolant use, etc. The head gaskets also fail pretty often, between cylinders and from cooling passages or oil return to the outside, resulting in leaks. Worst failure is between the oil passage across the front of the block -- failure here allows oil to enter the #1 cylinder under pressure. If enough gets in there, the #1 rod gets bent. All the bits from the -14- head will fit the -22-, with the proviso that it may be necessary to machine the pre-chambers to clear the bottom of the large hole in the heads. The correct ones, with inclined injectors, are a bit shorter at the shoulder, and if they don't fit correctly the pre-chamber will leak compression at the upper seal, usually badly enough that the engine will not run. Always use all new head bolts, they often fail when re-used, as I discovered on my old 300D. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Yes. The later heads were also found on later cars - the 350SDL for example. On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 7:55 PM, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.comwrote: OK, so did all 87s come with the 14 head and then later some had them replaced? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2011, at 8:26 PM, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Wow, now that is the answer I was looking for! Thank you. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2011, at 8:16 PM, Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote: In the middle of the part number on the head is a two digit code -- the original is -14-. the first improved head is -17- and the best version is the -22- one. They crack through from the combustion chamber to the coolant and or oil passages, causing the usual results -- overheating, coolant use, etc. The head gaskets also fail pretty often, between cylinders and from cooling passages or oil return to the outside, resulting in leaks. Worst failure is between the oil passage across the front of the block -- failure here allows oil to enter the #1 cylinder under pressure. If enough gets in there, the #1 rod gets bent. All the bits from the -14- head will fit the -22-, with the proviso that it may be necessary to machine the pre-chambers to clear the bottom of the large hole in the heads. The correct ones, with inclined injectors, are a bit shorter at the shoulder, and if they don't fit correctly the pre-chamber will leak compression at the upper seal, usually badly enough that the engine will not run. Always use all new head bolts, they often fail when re-used, as I discovered on my old 300D. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
That engine was sold in various versions (4, 5, and 6 cylinder) from 1984 to 1995 or so. The original design was part # 14, and it failed in service enough that by 1993 when the SDL was sold again it had the #17 head on it (nine years later(. The #14 was used on all OM603 engines sold in the US in 1986 and 1987, and probably all of them have cracked by now. If failed in normal service, not as a result of overheating, which can crack any of them. I'm not sure which one I had on the old 300D, the current car has had it replaced with a newer version. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
The Escort looking ones are like the e series wagon Kleb is going to look at. Mike On Jul 30, 2011 8:05 PM, Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com wrote: Well, the wagons look like a Ford Escort, according to someone here. On 7/30/11, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Isn't their some concern with the 87 diesels? A certain problematic head or something? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Sent from my mobile device ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Michael Canfield wrote: Not that wagon. The newer ones, I forget the model but someone was selling one here not long ago I think. Ohh, you think the 210 wagon looks like a y2k Escort, not that a 124 wagon looks like a 1981 Escort. I guess the round headlights and hood are sort of similar. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Yes, you got it. Mike On Jul 30, 2011 10:01 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Michael Canfield wrote: Not that wagon. The newer ones, I forget the model but someone was selling one here not long ago I think. Ohh, you think the 210 wagon looks like a y2k Escort, not that a 124 wagon looks like a 1981 Escort. I guess the round headlights and hood are sort of similar. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
OK Don wrote: Bottom line, if I didn't see signs of a cracked head, I would not be afraid of the car. ... but would prefer to see evidence of a recent evaporator replacement. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
