Re: [MBZ] Computers OS10.11

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Exactly.  Winders 2000 was incomplete when released (help, for 
instance)  XP took 2 more yrs to finish most of what was SUPPOSED to be 
in 2000, and add a stupid bubble gum interface.  7, 8 and 10 are just 
dicking with the interface in place of fixing the holes and bugs so one 
product might actually work as advertised.



Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
June 5, 2016 at 9:04 AMvia Postbox 

Change because they are 22 and the guy who did the hard work of 
setting things up is ancient at 30, yeah, BTDT.


"new and improved" doesn't mean screwing with the colors and doing 
thing differently just because YOU want to pee higher on the post..


Peter



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Re: [MBZ] Computers

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Comparing a premium price Apple computer to a generic PC is like comparing a 
126 MB to a Chevy Spark. Both are transportation and will get you where you 
want to go...
-Curt

  From: Peter Frederick via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Peter Frederick <psf...@earthlink.net>
 Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 8:42 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Computers
   
I'm still using 10.6, would still be running my MDD if not for the  
fact web browsing was getting too difficult (and is still a pain  
sometimes on the MacPro -- probably old enough now that not all  
functions are supported).

Apple made very good hardware in those days.  Premium prices, but I've  
had nowhere near the problems I've had with generic PCs over the  
years.  Some software stupidities and the "user isn't qualified to  
touch anything, just buy a new one" attitude drives me crazy, but the  
hardware is as good as it gets.

We use Dells at work, and have had two workstations die in the last  
six months, just flat quit working.  And endless Windows updates that  
crash our proprietary software (which runs on Oracle, another grossly  
overpriced and buggy junk system).  I'd greatly prefer Macs, but  
that's not gonna happen.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Computers

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

I'm still using 10.6, would still be running my MDD if not for the 
fact web browsing was getting too difficult (and is still a pain 
sometimes on the MacPro -- probably old enough now that not all 
functions are supported).


MacPro was not the solution.  El Crapitan was the solution, and the
MacPro was the best way to run it.  But I don't like ElCrap very much.
Flat, ugly, and a lot of gratuitous UI change that I hate.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Computers

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

I am curious as to why you need so much memory and so many processors, 
etc.


The memory was free, out of the dumpster at work.  (Well, a big
box in front of the lab we were decommissioning, but dumpster
sounds better.)  My wife occasionally uses InDesign, and does need
a bit of RAM at times.

The only thing I use that really wants some CPU is DxO, it can
spend hours crunching on photos.  So that's why I went for the
8x3GHz CPU's.  (The poor little laptop spent all day on one job.)
That, and just because I could.  Both machines are near-identical
as a political statement more than anything else, and so that we
each have a backup if one should die.

The only thing that has really driven this upgrade cycle is the
fng browsers.  Everything else we would do is still well-served
by the G5's.

No, it's not about the money.  It's about throwing down the
gauntlet and winning.  Plus, I hate waste.  I _really_ hate
waste.  These machines are now 'throwaway', and yet are nearly
as good as the $4k trash can, for any use we could put it to.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Computers OS10.11

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Change because they are 22 and the guy who did the hard work of  
setting things up is ancient at 30, yeah, BTDT.


"new and improved" doesn't mean screwing with the colors and doing  
thing differently just because YOU want to pee higher on the post..


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Computers OS10.11

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Apple has been going the way of M$ hit.   They change what works to what 
does NOT work, just because they can, to show off that they can.  While 
10.11 works and the postbox email is an easy transition from Eudora, the 
10,11 is ffrustrating.   The right side slider bars are gone.  Yes they 
appear if you hover the mouse over where they should be, but the actual 
slider disappears or moves when you try to "grab" it.  It is like that 
old "game" for winders where you were instructed to click on the box, 
but every time the box moved away.  Yes, there IS a setting to turn the 
slider on.  But even then there are no longer up or down arrows.  trying 
to scroll through a listing of 100,000 emails, then 50,000, and yes, now 
I have it down to 37,000, is very frustrating without the up, down arrows.


10.6 was just as good, and yes, I will say, BETTER than 10.11.  10.6 is 
better because it is stable and works.  We are being forced to move away 
from it only because the (false) "gods" of software choose to deny us a 
working web browser unless we downgrade to the latest M$ hit type junk 
from apple.


Lose 10 is still winders 2000 with a ton of patches.  There was no 
reason to force people to downgrade from XP to 7, 8 or 10 other than to 
generate income for M$ hit and their minions.


Also in 10.11, there is no longer an option to search file names only.  
Now when you want to search for a file, in place of a short list of file 
names with the key word in the title, you are presented with a huge list 
of files where the key word appears anywhere.  10.11 is truly El Crap 
because they "Fixed" stuff that was NOT broken to make using El Crap 
more difficult than 10.6.   I am sure there are more problems that I am 
not remembering right now.


Software developers are the most arrogant Ps OS on the face of the 
earth.  Like lawyers, 99.8% of them give the rest a bad name.

Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
June 5, 2016 at 7:42 AMvia Postbox 

I'm still using 10.6, would still be running my MDD if not for the 
fact web browsing was getting too difficult (and is still a pain 
sometimes on the MacPro -- probably old enough now that not all 
functions are supported).


Apple made very good hardware in those days.  Premium prices, but I've 
had nowhere near the problems I've had with generic PCs over the 
years.  Some software stupidities and the "user isn't qualified to 
touch anything, just buy a new one" attitude drives me crazy, but the 
hardware is as good as it gets.


We use Dells at work, and have had two workstations die in the last 
six months, just flat quit working.  And endless Windows updates that 
crash our proprietary software (which runs on Oracle, another grossly 
overpriced and buggy junk system).  I'd greatly prefer Macs, but 
that's not gonna happen.


Peter



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Re: [MBZ] Computers

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

I'm still using 10.6, would still be running my MDD if not for the  
fact web browsing was getting too difficult (and is still a pain  
sometimes on the MacPro -- probably old enough now that not all  
functions are supported).


Apple made very good hardware in those days.  Premium prices, but I've  
had nowhere near the problems I've had with generic PCs over the  
years.  Some software stupidities and the "user isn't qualified to  
touch anything, just buy a new one" attitude drives me crazy, but the  
hardware is as good as it gets.


We use Dells at work, and have had two workstations die in the last  
six months, just flat quit working.  And endless Windows updates that  
crash our proprietary software (which runs on Oracle, another grossly  
overpriced and buggy junk system).  I'd greatly prefer Macs, but  
that's not gonna happen.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Computers

[rogerhga--- via Mercedes]

Jim, 
That seems like a lot of money :-)) I know your personal time doesn't have any 
value, but So while we are telling such experiences... I have a Dell Vostro 
200, 2006/2007 dual core PC. About 1 1/2 years ago my wife's old Dell 5150 
needed replacing (now that's an old PC). I bought her a Dell Vostro 220 dual 
core. I paid $120 for it and the guy (a tech support fellow for a law firm) 
threw in a 3 license copy of Win7 Pro 32/64 bit. The Vostro 220 already had the 
Win7 Pro 64 bit loaded. I then put it on my Vostro 200 (zero dollars). Then, 
last fall when Win10 came out, I loaded Win10 64 bit on both Vostros. Of course 
my 200 required a free BIOS upgrade from Dell (about 20 minutes to download and 
install and reboot). So, now for free, my old Vostro 200 has gone from XP to 
Win7 Pro 64 bit to Win10 Pro 64 bit and is still going strong. By the way, 
original on board video, etc. Now to be honest, before I loaded Win7, I did 
upgrade the processor (I think $25 because it's an old processor) 
 and memory (about $30). 
Now, I realize it's not a MAC or any of the Apple flavors, but I've got little 
in it as well. I am curious as to why you need so much memory and so many 
processors, etc. Are you doing work for the CIA, DOD, Disney, or what? 
Sorry, I'm just having some fun on an early Sunday morning...NO offense 
intended. It's just similar to Dan when he buys a car at a cheap price and then 
proceeds to put hundreds and hundreds of dollars in parts and personal labor 
into it. Martha isn't free even if you do it yourself:- 
Best Wishes, 
Roger 
Roger Hale 
Dinnerware Classics, Inc. 
Monroe, Ga. 
770-267-0850 
www.dinnerwareclassics.com 


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Re: [MBZ] Computers

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

The second MacPro 1,1 has been finished, and is now in use.  (By me.)
This one got a firmware upgrade and two 'new' 5365 "Big Jim" SLAED
CPU's, along with a flashed PC 1G 4870 video card and some cast-off
FB-DIMMS.  Screams along with 8x3.0GHz with 11GB of ram, using a
120GB SSD for the El Capitan OS, and a 1TB Barracuda for user files.
Almost a complete duplicate of my wife's computer, but with a bit
less RAM.  I'm into this one around $150, all told --- under half
what hers cost.  The very worst thing was soldering in a new coin
cell battery holder, the PO was ham-handed and broke the old one.
(They get weird without a PRAM battery, though can still be used
that way.)  The Googletubes were entirely focused on repairs that
involved gum, tape, wires sticking out of the case, etc.  Cripes,
what a bunch of lame-o's.

My repair is indistinguishable from stock.

The PPC G5 quads are going into storage, as of today.  I kind of
hate to see them go, I dislike Intel so much, but these things were
starting to piss me off, and the MP's run _sweet_.

You have to spend some serious coin at the Apple store to get
something that's any faster than these things, at least for
non-gaming use.  The 4870's are a bit underpowered (though not
electrically), but work perfectly, even on 10.6 Snow Leopard.
Not sure newer/faster video cards would do that.  We have 10.6
for Rosetta, 10.7 for a fallback/patch OS, and 10.11 for regular
use.  Chances are good that 10.12 will also be happy on them.
The plan is that these serve for at least five years.  Not
bad for 2006 computers!

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Computers

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

It took next to forever, but the MacPro is finally deployed
in place of my wife's G5 quad.  Running up-to-the-minute
software, gobs of RAM, and an SSD for the OS and apps, with
a 1T for user files, it should be good for awhile now.  The
30" monitor is awfully easy on the eyes.  It just finished
its first Time Machine backup overnight, 200GB, and so is ready.
Has 10.6 on a partition, for Rosetta if it should be needed,
and 10.7 as a fallback OS in case of updates or damage
to the ElCapitan installation.  (Officially not supported
on that machine, but works fine.)

Now for the other one!  I have to solder on a new battery
holder...

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Computers

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I stand corrected, Jim.

I was thinking a Windows PC because you have to boot into DOS to do it.  Been 
2-3 years since I tinkered with these, which is why I had a rectal-cranial 
inversion on this...

Dan

Sent from my iPad

On May 31, 2016, at 9:44 AM, Jim Cathey  wrote:

>>> Going to post instructions on how to do that?
> 
> I've made some (terse!) notes here:
> 
> http://formicapeak.com/~jimc/electronics.html#30May2016
> 
>> It's fairly straightforward to do, but you've got to have a PC to do it.
> 
> No, you don't.  (A.k.a. a Mac Pro _is_ a PC!)  I spent lots
> of time collecting utilities, getting the environment set up,
> etc., but the whole mess could have been done in an hour or so.
> 
> -- Jim
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Computers

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

Going to post instructions on how to do that?


I've made some (terse!) notes here:

http://formicapeak.com/~jimc/electronics.html#30May2016

It's fairly straightforward to do, but you've got to have a PC to do 
it.


No, you don't.  (A.k.a. a Mac Pro _is_ a PC!)  I spent lots
of time collecting utilities, getting the environment set up,
etc., but the whole mess could have been done in an hour or so.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Computers

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

It's fairly straightforward to do, but you've got to have a PC to do it.

I've done a couple ATI cards in the past, but my last one, a 5750, I just 
bought already done.

Dan

> On May 31, 2016, at 7:18 AM, Ed Booher via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Going to post instructions on how to do that?
> 
> On Mon, May 30, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Triumph!  I have been dicking with this cheap PC HD 4870
>> video card ($36, works, 1GB VRAM) trying to get it flashed
>> with Apple EFI firmware.  Various attempts failed with varying
>> degrees of miserability.  Finally got waist-deep in the muck
>> using emacs and dd, among other things, and was able to
>> make a composite image that the card likes, and that seems
>> to work perfectly even for boot screens.
>> 
>> So now both Macs have decent 4870 videos that El Crapitan likes.
>> 
>> 
>> -- Jim
>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Computers

[Ed Booher via Mercedes]

Going to post instructions on how to do that?

On Mon, May 30, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Triumph!  I have been dicking with this cheap PC HD 4870
> video card ($36, works, 1GB VRAM) trying to get it flashed
> with Apple EFI firmware.  Various attempts failed with varying
> degrees of miserability.  Finally got waist-deep in the muck
> using emacs and dd, among other things, and was able to
> make a composite image that the card likes, and that seems
> to work perfectly even for boot screens.
>
> So now both Macs have decent 4870 videos that El Crapitan likes.
>
>
> -- Jim
>
>
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-- 
"Das beste oder nichts." - *Gottlieb Daimler*
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Re: [MBZ] Computers

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

Triumph!  I have been dicking with this cheap PC HD 4870
video card ($36, works, 1GB VRAM) trying to get it flashed
with Apple EFI firmware.  Various attempts failed with varying
degrees of miserability.  Finally got waist-deep in the muck
using emacs and dd, among other things, and was able to
make a composite image that the card likes, and that seems
to work perfectly even for boot screens.

So now both Macs have decent 4870 videos that El Crapitan likes.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Computers

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

I checked, and it looks like I bought Xeon X5355 2.66GHz/8M/1333 
Quad-Core Processors SLAEG.  Cost me $55.00 for the pair in May of 
2014.  I think I went with the SLAEGs because their idle power 
consumption is lower.


I went with the "Big Jim" SLAED because then the two systems
(one of which was already using them) will be identical.

The un-upgraded 1,1 seems to draw 250-350W, which puts it in the
same range as the G5 quad IIRC.  I don't have numbers for the SLAED.

I would have to go back and check to see if that was the reason.  
They’re still G0 stepping, I think.


Both are G0, IIRC.

Do you follow the MacPro 1,1 thread on MacRumors?  That’s where I got 
all my information.


I use Google, then trawl through the results.  Some of those 
thousand-entry

threads in the various BBS systems really suck.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Computers

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I checked, and it looks like I bought Xeon X5355 2.66GHz/8M/1333 Quad-Core 
Processors SLAEG.  Cost me $55.00 for the pair in May of 2014.  I think I went 
with the SLAEGs because their idle power consumption is lower.  I would have to 
go back and check to see if that was the reason.  They’re still G0 stepping, I 
think.

Do you follow the MacPro 1,1 thread on MacRumors?  That’s where I got all my 
information.

MacDan



> On May 28, 2016, at 10:15 AM, Jim Cathey  wrote:
> 
>>> I have the processors but haven't gotten around to doing the upgrade.  the 
>>> MacPro is so much faster than my old B or MDD I don't really feel a 
>>> strong need to boost performance much.
> 
> I guess you skipped the G5 then?  They worked pretty well, too,
> but the MP seems to be eating its lunch.
> 
>> I was able to get a pair of 5365(?) processors as working pulls on eBay a 
>> couple of years ago for around $60-$75 for the pair.  They need to be SLAEG 
>> versions as I recall.
> 
> I hope it's SLAED, because that's what I bought.  5365 SLAED is 3.0GHz,
> 5355 SLAEG is 2.66GHz, both are quads.
> 
> The only thing I use where performance is an issue is DxO Optics Pro,
> which likes its CPU, yum yum yum.  One run on the 2-core MBP laptop was
> 7-8 hours.  I have high hopes for the faster 8-core MP in its place.
> 
> -- Jim
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Computers

[M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes]

Now you guys have me hankering to soup up my Minis... (G5 and 2.4 Duo)

-MMM-

On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 9:15 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I have the processors but haven't gotten around to doing the upgrade.  the
>>> MacPro is so much faster than my old B or MDD I don't really feel a
>>> strong need to boost performance much.
>>>
>>
> I guess you skipped the G5 then?  They worked pretty well, too,
> but the MP seems to be eating its lunch.
>
> I was able to get a pair of 5365(?) processors as working pulls on eBay a
>> couple of years ago for around $60-$75 for the pair.  They need to be SLAEG
>> versions as I recall.
>>
>
> I hope it's SLAED, because that's what I bought.  5365 SLAED is 3.0GHz,
> 5355 SLAEG is 2.66GHz, both are quads.
>
> The only thing I use where performance is an issue is DxO Optics Pro,
> which likes its CPU, yum yum yum.  One run on the 2-core MBP laptop was
> 7-8 hours.  I have high hopes for the faster 8-core MP in its place.
>
> -- Jim
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Computers

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

I have the processors but haven't gotten around to doing the upgrade. 
 the MacPro is so much faster than my old B or MDD I don't really 
feel a strong need to boost performance much.


I guess you skipped the G5 then?  They worked pretty well, too,
but the MP seems to be eating its lunch.

I was able to get a pair of 5365(?) processors as working pulls on 
eBay a couple of years ago for around $60-$75 for the pair.  They need 
to be SLAEG versions as I recall.


I hope it's SLAED, because that's what I bought.  5365 SLAED is 3.0GHz,
5355 SLAEG is 2.66GHz, both are quads.

The only thing I use where performance is an issue is DxO Optics Pro,
which likes its CPU, yum yum yum.  One run on the 2-core MBP laptop was
7-8 hours.  I have high hopes for the faster 8-core MP in its place.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Computers

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I was able to get a pair of 5365(?) processors as working pulls on eBay a 
couple of years ago for around $60-$75 for the pair.  They need to be SLAEG 
versions as I recall.

Other than needing a long 5mm allen/hex driver, it was a piece of cake to swap 
them.

Dan


> On May 28, 2016, at 9:05 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have the processors but haven't gotten around to doing the upgrade.  the 
> MacPro is so much faster than my old B or MDD I don't really feel a strong 
> need to boost performance much.
> 
> Now if I could just get decent high speed internet at a rational price I'd be 
> all set
> 
> 
> Peter
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Computers

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

I have the processors but haven't gotten around to doing the upgrade.   
the MacPro is so much faster than my old B or MDD I don't really  
feel a strong need to boost performance much.


Now if I could just get decent high speed internet at a rational price  
I'd be all set



Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Computers

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I’m telling you, my MP 1,1 with a firmware update to 2,1 and upgraded 
processors to 5365s would scream.  Great machine.

MacDan

> On May 27, 2016, at 10:30 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> The parts to bring both of these MacPro 1,1 machines up to 3,1
> status have begun to arrive.  Today the $36 ATI HD 4870 video card
> came, and I cleaned the dust bunnies out of it and swapped it in.
> It's still got PC firmware so the boot process was entirely blind,
> but once up it seems to function well.  The Unigine Valley demo
> was running 25-48 fps, and the cooling fan was tracking the load
> and not making any excessive noises.  It has 1GB of VRAM instead
> of the 512MB of the Apple unit, and two DVI ports and an S-video
> instead of 1 DVI and the mini displayport.
> 
> The RAM upgrades were free discards from work.  So, machine 2
> is at $111 to run 4-core 2.66GHz Xeon El Capitan.  But I also
> spent another $75 to get 8 cores of 3 GHz fun.  I have to remove
> the MB to solder on a replacement battery holder, and while it's
> out I'll swap the CPU's.  Gonna be under $250 when it's fully
> upgraded, and with the SSD for the OS/Apps it'll be FAST!
> 
> -- Jim
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Computers

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

I just finished the upgrades to our newest Mac, a 2007 Macbook Pro.
It is now sporting 6GB of RAM (the maximum possible), and a 120GB SSD.
The thing is _much_ faster, and seems perfectly usable.  The RAM upgrade
from 4GB was trivial.  The disk... less so.

But it worked in the end, and the Time Machine restores onto the SSD, 
though

slow, worked well in the end.  Out of the box the installer can't find
networked TM stores, but there were some simple instructions to follow
that I found that worked just fine.  Basically you have to type three
commands into a Terminal window to map your TM server onto the machine,
and after that all is well.  It's back up now, and seems just as usable
as before.  But downright snappy.

Yes, the SSD is small, but it was relatively cheap, and is no smaller
than the HD it replaced.  (Heavy lifting is done on the G5 with the 30"
screen anyway.)  It was about half the cost of the 4GB RAM stick!

Sucks dropping nearly $200 into a computer this old.  OTOH, it's 'like 
new',

and $200 is _way_ less than a new(er) computer.

We're running Yosemite, the last OS that'll run on this particular unit.
I hate it, much preferring the 10.6 that was on it before, but the
whining from SWMBA about browser sites that didn't work was getting
intolerable again.  (SWMBA last year: "I hate this old thing.  Nothing
works right."  Me: "You do realize you are running EXACTLY the same
SW that you'd have if you went down and bought a brand new unit?"  Until
El Crapitan came out I was in a pretty good position to stave off an
unnecessary expense at the Apple store.)  This should hold her for a
year or two, maybe.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Computers

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

So far the upgrade to 10.6 on the macbook 1,1 is working.  Opera and 
Firefox run for places that don't like safari. on 10.6.  CHrome won't 
run on the core2 machines, a bacward step into the winders world of 
32 bit machines from the G4 and g5.


There is a holdover printing problem from before.  Some filter pm2500 
is blocking the print jobs.   I need to figure out how to solve that.


My MBP is an 8,1 and still running the original 10.6 it came out 
with.  Being a core i5, it runs chrome for the websites that don't 
like older versions of safari.



I just finished the upgrades to our newest Mac, a 2007 Macbook Pro.
It is now sporting 6GB of RAM (the maximum possible), and a 120GB SSD.
The thing is _much_ faster, and seems perfectly usable.  The RAM upgrade
from 4GB was trivial.  The disk... less so.

But it worked in the end, and the Time Machine restores onto the SSD, though
slow, worked well in the end.  Out of the box the installer can't find
networked TM stores, but there were some simple instructions to follow
that I found that worked just fine.  Basically you have to type three
commands into a Terminal window to map your TM server onto the machine,
and after that all is well.  It's back up now, and seems just as usable
as before.  But downright snappy.

Yes, the SSD is small, but it was relatively cheap, and is no smaller
than the HD it replaced.  (Heavy lifting is done on the G5 with the 30"
screen anyway.)  It was about half the cost of the 4GB RAM stick!

Sucks dropping nearly $200 into a computer this old.  OTOH, it's 'like new',
and $200 is _way_ less than a new(er) computer.

We're running Yosemite, the last OS that'll run on this particular unit.
I hate it, much preferring the 10.6 that was on it before, but the
whining from SWMBA about browser sites that didn't work was getting
intolerable again.  (SWMBA last year: "I hate this old thing.  Nothing
works right."  Me: "You do realize you are running EXACTLY the same
SW that you'd have if you went down and bought a brand new unit?"  Until
El Crapitan came out I was in a pretty good position to stave off an
unnecessary expense at the Apple store.)  This should hold her for a
year or two, maybe.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Computers and accessibility was Re: 1981 300SD with only 105Kmi! $3400

[Dan Penoff]

Friends of ours have a visually impaired so who I have done a lot of IT work 
for, hence I am familiar with programs such as Jaws.

He has said that since he got an iPhone his connectivity has jumped 
significantly due to the accessibility features.

He occasionally posts photos that he takes, which are pretty comical, as he has 
no way to aim or frame the picture.

He's a really good natured guy who takes his exceptionality well. I get a kick 
when people stop themselves when they start to say, see you later! and his 
response will be something flippant.

I convinced his folks to move him to a Mac several years ago, mainly due to 
their accessibility features. He has been very pleased, and that is what led 
him to a iPhone.

Dan

On May 10, 2013, at 3:32 PM, Kevin Kraly kevinpadd...@gmail.com wrote:

 Yes, my speech synthesizer program JAWS for Windows does work with many 
 things. However, there are quite a few websites and programs that are still 
 inaccessible. I will shortly be switching from a PC to a MacBook Pro which 
 speaks everything.  If it revolutionizes my computer experience as my iPhone 
 4 is revolutionized my smart phone experience, this will be very exciting!
 Kevin in Laporte Colorado
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On May 10, 2013, at 11:51 AM, Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 
 On May 10, 2013 10:38 AM, Darren Marshall onecreat...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Accessibility is so often overlooked,
 and public awareness of it is quite
 low. As someone who works in tech
 /web for a living, while I don't find it
 all that surprising, I still find it
 amazing.
 
 Same here.  I recently had to set up a small site for work using Microsoft
 SharePoint 2010 and was amazed at its total lack of conformance to any kind
 of accessibility standards.  MS pitches SharePoint as a be-all, end-all
 solution for corporate intranets, but it would be completely useless to
 anyone in Kevin's situation.
 
 Alex
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Re: [MBZ] Computers, hoons and Diesels

[Dieselhead]

Also the question has come up on the Ozbenz forum, as to why the US 
got S class Diesels and just about no one outside of continental 
Europe and the US did. Someone suggested it was due to the average 
fuel consumption legislation from the 70's but I am a bit weary of 
that theory.


You blokes just don't live right.

Not enough of you live beyond your means.  In the US and Japan in the 
80s, lotsa people lived beyond their means.


(semi tongue in cheek)

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