Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-23 Thread Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
 Check with your source in Turkey. You can probably buy them off the shelf
there or in Argentina or something.

On Sat, Mar 16, 2019, 6:52 AM Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> The old mechanical injection systems from Bosch were very very similar to
> the diesel injection systems, just much lower delivery pressure as they
> inject into the intake rather than the combustion chamber in the MB
> versions -- the aircraft and original 300 Gullwing inject through the side
> of the block aimed up toward (or down toward in the aircraft engines) the
> spark plug.
>
> Hence the need for the diesel type fuel filter.
>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie - Success!!!

2019-03-17 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes 

Congrats!    Glad it worked out.

A running car is better than a garage queen!

Good work!


Be aware!  When judging concours, I found that the underside reveals 
much.  Like the gullwing with a really cruddy underside, wrong exhaust 
clamps, overspray, etc.  I deducted all the points I could, but it was 
still not enough.


Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote on 3/17/19 9:14 AM:

Just finished up my fuel pump replacement. Here’s the deal:

Jaime was kind enough to refer me to a text he had seen from Pieter Van Rossum, 
a W113 guy, where he had replaced the stock “tall” fuel pump with a generic 
Carter pump.

I got a Carter pump the same day from the Island of Large Wimmen for $102.00. A 
pittance compared to the minimum of $700 or so in the market for rebuilt or 
used stock fuel pumps. I spent a fair amount of time yesterday adapting the 
mounting and getting the lines and fittings set up. They actually worked out 
well, as you’ll see. It was also a good opportunity to replace all of the old 
hoses at the tank and pump while I was there. Not fun, but not too bad of a job 
despite how much I hate working around gasoline.

Since I had the instrument cluster out of the car for the dash pad replacement, 
I couldn’t start the engine yesterday as the oil pressure gauge and capillary 
tube for the coolant temperature gauge were both disconnected. I did turn 
everything on last night and it ran and made pressure, no leaks. Loud compared 
to the stock pump, but hey, for $100 I’ll live with it.

Got the gauges connected this morning and fired it up. Success! I haven’t taken 
the car on the road yet, but I suspect it should be fine. More as I know it.

As icing on the cake, as I was collecting all the parts together for the old 
pump I found the bulk of the “missing” brush spring. I might be able to reuse 
it after bending a new end on the remains of the spring. Woo-hoo!

Here’s a link to a lousy cell phone photo. The return line is hanging in the 
foreground with a hose clamp on it:

http://penoff.com/photo_dump.html#0

Carter P4601HP inline electric pump - $102.00
2” PVC rubber coupling - $4.00
3 - Corner braces - $4.00
6 - M5 nuts, washers - $2.00
Miscellaneous hose, clamps, crimp connectors, etc - stock

I’ll have a far more detailed update in my blog probably tonight. I gotta get 
back to finishing up the dash….

-D
_



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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie - Success!!!

2019-03-17 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
I guess. I didn’t bother trying to verify the specs. The guy Jaime knew that 
has done this is a well known and trusted vintage Mercedes guy, so that was 
good enough for me.

-D


> On Mar 17, 2019, at 11:48 AM, Dimitri  wrote:
> 
> Wow that’s excellent! So this pump happens to have the similar output volume 
> and pressure as original?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 17, 2019, at 10:14 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Just finished up my fuel pump replacement. Here’s the deal:
>> 
>> Jaime was kind enough to refer me to a text he had seen from Pieter Van 
>> Rossum, a W113 guy, where he had replaced the stock “tall” fuel pump with a 
>> generic Carter pump.
>> 
>> I got a Carter pump the same day from the Island of Large Wimmen for 
>> $102.00. A pittance compared to the minimum of $700 or so in the market for 
>> rebuilt or used stock fuel pumps. I spent a fair amount of time yesterday 
>> adapting the mounting and getting the lines and fittings set up. They 
>> actually worked out well, as you’ll see. It was also a good opportunity to 
>> replace all of the old hoses at the tank and pump while I was there. Not 
>> fun, but not too bad of a job despite how much I hate working around 
>> gasoline.
>> 
>> Since I had the instrument cluster out of the car for the dash pad 
>> replacement, I couldn’t start the engine yesterday as the oil pressure gauge 
>> and capillary tube for the coolant temperature gauge were both disconnected. 
>> I did turn everything on last night and it ran and made pressure, no leaks. 
>> Loud compared to the stock pump, but hey, for $100 I’ll live with it.
>> 
>> Got the gauges connected this morning and fired it up. Success! I haven’t 
>> taken the car on the road yet, but I suspect it should be fine. More as I 
>> know it.
>> 
>> As icing on the cake, as I was collecting all the parts together for the old 
>> pump I found the bulk of the “missing” brush spring. I might be able to 
>> reuse it after bending a new end on the remains of the spring. Woo-hoo!
>> 
>> Here’s a link to a lousy cell phone photo. The return line is hanging in the 
>> foreground with a hose clamp on it:
>> 
>> http://penoff.com/photo_dump.html#0
>> 
>> Carter P4601HP inline electric pump - $102.00
>> 2” PVC rubber coupling - $4.00
>> 3 - Corner braces - $4.00
>> 6 - M5 nuts, washers - $2.00
>> Miscellaneous hose, clamps, crimp connectors, etc - stock
>> 
>> I’ll have a far more detailed update in my blog probably tonight. I gotta 
>> get back to finishing up the dash….
>> 
>> -D
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie - Success!!!

2019-03-17 Thread Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
Well done. That little fuel pump job- up would have completely discourage 67% 
of all Mercedes owners. 

Bob R

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 17, 2019, at 8:48 AM, Dimitri via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Wow that’s excellent! So this pump happens to have the similar output volume 
> and pressure as original?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 17, 2019, at 10:14 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Just finished up my fuel pump replacement. Here’s the deal:
>> 
>> Jaime was kind enough to refer me to a text he had seen from Pieter Van 
>> Rossum, a W113 guy, where he had replaced the stock “tall” fuel pump with a 
>> generic Carter pump.
>> 
>> I got a Carter pump the same day from the Island of Large Wimmen for 
>> $102.00. A pittance compared to the minimum of $700 or so in the market for 
>> rebuilt or used stock fuel pumps. I spent a fair amount of time yesterday 
>> adapting the mounting and getting the lines and fittings set up. They 
>> actually worked out well, as you’ll see. It was also a good opportunity to 
>> replace all of the old hoses at the tank and pump while I was there. Not 
>> fun, but not too bad of a job despite how much I hate working around 
>> gasoline.
>> 
>> Since I had the instrument cluster out of the car for the dash pad 
>> replacement, I couldn’t start the engine yesterday as the oil pressure gauge 
>> and capillary tube for the coolant temperature gauge were both disconnected. 
>> I did turn everything on last night and it ran and made pressure, no leaks. 
>> Loud compared to the stock pump, but hey, for $100 I’ll live with it.
>> 
>> Got the gauges connected this morning and fired it up. Success! I haven’t 
>> taken the car on the road yet, but I suspect it should be fine. More as I 
>> know it.
>> 
>> As icing on the cake, as I was collecting all the parts together for the old 
>> pump I found the bulk of the “missing” brush spring. I might be able to 
>> reuse it after bending a new end on the remains of the spring. Woo-hoo!
>> 
>> Here’s a link to a lousy cell phone photo. The return line is hanging in the 
>> foreground with a hose clamp on it:
>> 
>> http://penoff.com/photo_dump.html#0
>> 
>> Carter P4601HP inline electric pump - $102.00
>> 2” PVC rubber coupling - $4.00
>> 3 - Corner braces - $4.00
>> 6 - M5 nuts, washers - $2.00
>> Miscellaneous hose, clamps, crimp connectors, etc - stock
>> 
>> I’ll have a far more detailed update in my blog probably tonight. I gotta 
>> get back to finishing up the dash….
>> 
>> -D
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 

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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie - Success!!!

2019-03-17 Thread Dimitri via Mercedes 
Wow that’s excellent! So this pump happens to have the similar output volume 
and pressure as original?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 17, 2019, at 10:14 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Just finished up my fuel pump replacement. Here’s the deal:
> 
> Jaime was kind enough to refer me to a text he had seen from Pieter Van 
> Rossum, a W113 guy, where he had replaced the stock “tall” fuel pump with a 
> generic Carter pump.
> 
> I got a Carter pump the same day from the Island of Large Wimmen for $102.00. 
> A pittance compared to the minimum of $700 or so in the market for rebuilt or 
> used stock fuel pumps. I spent a fair amount of time yesterday adapting the 
> mounting and getting the lines and fittings set up. They actually worked out 
> well, as you’ll see. It was also a good opportunity to replace all of the old 
> hoses at the tank and pump while I was there. Not fun, but not too bad of a 
> job despite how much I hate working around gasoline.
> 
> Since I had the instrument cluster out of the car for the dash pad 
> replacement, I couldn’t start the engine yesterday as the oil pressure gauge 
> and capillary tube for the coolant temperature gauge were both disconnected. 
> I did turn everything on last night and it ran and made pressure, no leaks. 
> Loud compared to the stock pump, but hey, for $100 I’ll live with it.
> 
> Got the gauges connected this morning and fired it up. Success! I haven’t 
> taken the car on the road yet, but I suspect it should be fine. More as I 
> know it.
> 
> As icing on the cake, as I was collecting all the parts together for the old 
> pump I found the bulk of the “missing” brush spring. I might be able to reuse 
> it after bending a new end on the remains of the spring. Woo-hoo!
> 
> Here’s a link to a lousy cell phone photo. The return line is hanging in the 
> foreground with a hose clamp on it:
> 
> http://penoff.com/photo_dump.html#0
> 
> Carter P4601HP inline electric pump - $102.00
> 2” PVC rubber coupling - $4.00
> 3 - Corner braces - $4.00
> 6 - M5 nuts, washers - $2.00
> Miscellaneous hose, clamps, crimp connectors, etc - stock
> 
> I’ll have a far more detailed update in my blog probably tonight. I gotta get 
> back to finishing up the dash….
> 
> -D
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie - Success!!!

2019-03-17 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
Just finished up my fuel pump replacement. Here’s the deal:

Jaime was kind enough to refer me to a text he had seen from Pieter Van Rossum, 
a W113 guy, where he had replaced the stock “tall” fuel pump with a generic 
Carter pump.

I got a Carter pump the same day from the Island of Large Wimmen for $102.00. A 
pittance compared to the minimum of $700 or so in the market for rebuilt or 
used stock fuel pumps. I spent a fair amount of time yesterday adapting the 
mounting and getting the lines and fittings set up. They actually worked out 
well, as you’ll see. It was also a good opportunity to replace all of the old 
hoses at the tank and pump while I was there. Not fun, but not too bad of a job 
despite how much I hate working around gasoline.

Since I had the instrument cluster out of the car for the dash pad replacement, 
I couldn’t start the engine yesterday as the oil pressure gauge and capillary 
tube for the coolant temperature gauge were both disconnected. I did turn 
everything on last night and it ran and made pressure, no leaks. Loud compared 
to the stock pump, but hey, for $100 I’ll live with it.

Got the gauges connected this morning and fired it up. Success! I haven’t taken 
the car on the road yet, but I suspect it should be fine. More as I know it.

As icing on the cake, as I was collecting all the parts together for the old 
pump I found the bulk of the “missing” brush spring. I might be able to reuse 
it after bending a new end on the remains of the spring. Woo-hoo!

Here’s a link to a lousy cell phone photo. The return line is hanging in the 
foreground with a hose clamp on it:

http://penoff.com/photo_dump.html#0

Carter P4601HP inline electric pump - $102.00
2” PVC rubber coupling - $4.00
3 - Corner braces - $4.00
6 - M5 nuts, washers - $2.00
Miscellaneous hose, clamps, crimp connectors, etc - stock

I’ll have a far more detailed update in my blog probably tonight. I gotta get 
back to finishing up the dash….

-D
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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-16 Thread Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
The old mechanical injection systems from Bosch were very very similar to the 
diesel injection systems, just much lower delivery pressure as they inject into 
the intake rather than the combustion chamber in the MB versions -- the 
aircraft and original 300 Gullwing inject through the side of the block aimed 
up toward (or down toward in the aircraft engines) the spark plug.

Hence the need for the diesel type fuel filter.



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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-15 Thread G Mann via Mercedes 
Thanks, I always love a challenge so finding a solution intrigues me. BTW,
nice work on the headliner. Well done.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 8:41 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Don’t burn any calories on this just yet. I’ve got something on the burner
> right now that will probably resolve the situation for far less than the
> stock pump option. I’ve for to do some things tomorrow to work out details,
> then I’ll know more.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -D
>
> > On Mar 15, 2019, at 11:36 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks !
> > Perfect to have spec in hand.  Not a particularly high pressure supply
> > system, which should work to your advantage for a work around system with
> > staying power and standard replacement parts.
> >
> > I will do a bit of digging and see what I can contribute. Next 3 days are
> > obligated, so it will be after that.
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 8:27 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> The MB "Technical Data Passenger Cars" has the following for the fuel
> pump:
> >>
> >> Feed pressure (after fuel fine filter) - 0.8 -1.1 kg/cm2 (perhaps they
> >> meant the fuel line filter?)
> >> Feed final pressure (after overflow valve of injection pump) at least
> 1.3
> >> kg/cm2
> >> Feed capacity at least 3 liters/min
> >>
> >> -D
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Mar 15, 2019, at 11:18 PM, G Mann via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> For my own curiosity, what is the GPM and pressure spec for your Finnie
> >> at
> >>> the delivery point?
> >>>
> >>> I confess to no experience with that era injection system.  However,
> just
> >>> happen to still hold an FAA Repair Station license and Repairman
> >>> Certificates for numerous jet engine fuel systems, including one for
> the
> >> SR
> >>> 71, [incase you want to go really fast ;))]  So, the thought comes
> there
> >>> might be a viable work around for the shortage of original pumps.
> >>> As part of those efforts, I designed and got certified by FAA, overhaul
> >>> tooling and procedures for the various engine fuel systems and
> injectors.
> >>> Perhaps I could apply some of that experience to "saving the Finnies"
> of
> >>> the world.
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 5:27 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
>  Fortunately I have specs and it already has a regulator in the
> circuit.
>  More to come on this tomorrow.
> 
>  -D
> 
> 
> > On Mar 15, 2019, at 7:08 PM, G Mann via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>  wrote:
> >
> > Suggestion. Look up the GPM flow rate and Required Pressure for the
>  Finnie.
> > Purchase a Faucet pump that is at or above the spec.. Also purchase a
>  fuel
> > pressure regulator, which will meter fuel at the spec pressure, Add a
>  fuel
> > pressure gage in the supply line to verify your setting adjustment,
> >> Once
> > set, remove the pressure test gage and plumbing so it looks factory.
> >
> > Drive on with confidence that you have a new pump that is supplying
> >> spec
> > pressure and flow. Then, look for NOS finnie pump, or repair source,
> >
> > That way, you get to enjoy the car instead of not trusting it will
> >> leave
> > you stranded, and you have as much time as you need to locate a
> factory
> > pump.
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 2:37 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> With the plethora of ruined finnies on the market you ought be able
> to
>  get
> >> several used fuel pumps for a song.  Worth a try.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 1:42 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> It’s a piece of metal that’s riveted or welded to the pump housing.
> >> You
> >>> have to understand we’re talking really, really small spaces here.
> >> Not
> >> only
> >>> that, the “short” pump has fuel circulating around the motor, so
> the
>  case
> >>> has to be sealed or you will be leaking fuel. So no holes or
> >> fasteners
> >>> through the case.
> >>>
> >>> It’s remotely possibly one could come up with a fix, but this is
> not
> >>> something I want to kludge. I’ll try and post some pictures later
> one
>  so
> >>> you can see what I’m talking about.
> >>>
> >>>
>  On Mar 15, 2019, at 1:24 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >>> wrote:
> 
>  I agree. Can’t it be welded? What are the metals involved?
> 
>  Sent from my iPhone
> 
>  On Mar 15, 2019, at 12:09 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> >> fuel, which would eventually cause the JB Weld to fail.
> >
> > Soldering/brazing/nuts&bolts/rivets?  Seems like there ought to
> be
> >> a
> >>> mechanical
> >

Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-15 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
Don’t burn any calories on this just yet. I’ve got something on the burner 
right now that will probably resolve the situation for far less than the stock 
pump option. I’ve for to do some things tomorrow to work out details, then I’ll 
know more.

Thanks!

-D
 
> On Mar 15, 2019, at 11:36 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Thanks !
> Perfect to have spec in hand.  Not a particularly high pressure supply
> system, which should work to your advantage for a work around system with
> staying power and standard replacement parts.
> 
> I will do a bit of digging and see what I can contribute. Next 3 days are
> obligated, so it will be after that.
> 
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 8:27 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> The MB "Technical Data Passenger Cars" has the following for the fuel pump:
>> 
>> Feed pressure (after fuel fine filter) - 0.8 -1.1 kg/cm2 (perhaps they
>> meant the fuel line filter?)
>> Feed final pressure (after overflow valve of injection pump) at least 1.3
>> kg/cm2
>> Feed capacity at least 3 liters/min
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 15, 2019, at 11:18 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> For my own curiosity, what is the GPM and pressure spec for your Finnie
>> at
>>> the delivery point?
>>> 
>>> I confess to no experience with that era injection system.  However, just
>>> happen to still hold an FAA Repair Station license and Repairman
>>> Certificates for numerous jet engine fuel systems, including one for the
>> SR
>>> 71, [incase you want to go really fast ;))]  So, the thought comes there
>>> might be a viable work around for the shortage of original pumps.
>>> As part of those efforts, I designed and got certified by FAA, overhaul
>>> tooling and procedures for the various engine fuel systems and injectors.
>>> Perhaps I could apply some of that experience to "saving the Finnies" of
>>> the world.
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 5:27 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
 Fortunately I have specs and it already has a regulator in the circuit.
 More to come on this tomorrow.
 
 -D
 
 
> On Mar 15, 2019, at 7:08 PM, G Mann via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 wrote:
> 
> Suggestion. Look up the GPM flow rate and Required Pressure for the
 Finnie.
> Purchase a Faucet pump that is at or above the spec.. Also purchase a
 fuel
> pressure regulator, which will meter fuel at the spec pressure, Add a
 fuel
> pressure gage in the supply line to verify your setting adjustment,
>> Once
> set, remove the pressure test gage and plumbing so it looks factory.
> 
> Drive on with confidence that you have a new pump that is supplying
>> spec
> pressure and flow. Then, look for NOS finnie pump, or repair source,
> 
> That way, you get to enjoy the car instead of not trusting it will
>> leave
> you stranded, and you have as much time as you need to locate a factory
> pump.
> 
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 2:37 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> With the plethora of ruined finnies on the market you ought be able to
 get
>> several used fuel pumps for a song.  Worth a try.
>> 
>> On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 1:42 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> It’s a piece of metal that’s riveted or welded to the pump housing.
>> You
>>> have to understand we’re talking really, really small spaces here.
>> Not
>> only
>>> that, the “short” pump has fuel circulating around the motor, so the
 case
>>> has to be sealed or you will be leaking fuel. So no holes or
>> fasteners
>>> through the case.
>>> 
>>> It’s remotely possibly one could come up with a fix, but this is not
>>> something I want to kludge. I’ll try and post some pictures later one
 so
>>> you can see what I’m talking about.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Mar 15, 2019, at 1:24 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>> wrote:
 
 I agree. Can’t it be welded? What are the metals involved?
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Mar 15, 2019, at 12:09 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
>> fuel, which would eventually cause the JB Weld to fail.
> 
> Soldering/brazing/nuts&bolts/rivets?  Seems like there ought to be
>> a
>>> mechanical
> way to secure it.  A spring is a spring, find something similar and
>> put
>>> it in.
> 
> -- Jim
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>

Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-15 Thread G Mann via Mercedes 
Thanks !
Perfect to have spec in hand.  Not a particularly high pressure supply
system, which should work to your advantage for a work around system with
staying power and standard replacement parts.

I will do a bit of digging and see what I can contribute. Next 3 days are
obligated, so it will be after that.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 8:27 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> The MB "Technical Data Passenger Cars" has the following for the fuel pump:
>
> Feed pressure (after fuel fine filter) - 0.8 -1.1 kg/cm2 (perhaps they
> meant the fuel line filter?)
> Feed final pressure (after overflow valve of injection pump) at least 1.3
> kg/cm2
> Feed capacity at least 3 liters/min
>
> -D
>
>
>
> > On Mar 15, 2019, at 11:18 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> >
> > For my own curiosity, what is the GPM and pressure spec for your Finnie
> at
> > the delivery point?
> >
> > I confess to no experience with that era injection system.  However, just
> > happen to still hold an FAA Repair Station license and Repairman
> > Certificates for numerous jet engine fuel systems, including one for the
> SR
> > 71, [incase you want to go really fast ;))]  So, the thought comes there
> > might be a viable work around for the shortage of original pumps.
> > As part of those efforts, I designed and got certified by FAA, overhaul
> > tooling and procedures for the various engine fuel systems and injectors.
> > Perhaps I could apply some of that experience to "saving the Finnies" of
> > the world.
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 5:27 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Fortunately I have specs and it already has a regulator in the circuit.
> >> More to come on this tomorrow.
> >>
> >> -D
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Mar 15, 2019, at 7:08 PM, G Mann via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Suggestion. Look up the GPM flow rate and Required Pressure for the
> >> Finnie.
> >>> Purchase a Faucet pump that is at or above the spec.. Also purchase a
> >> fuel
> >>> pressure regulator, which will meter fuel at the spec pressure, Add a
> >> fuel
> >>> pressure gage in the supply line to verify your setting adjustment,
> Once
> >>> set, remove the pressure test gage and plumbing so it looks factory.
> >>>
> >>> Drive on with confidence that you have a new pump that is supplying
> spec
> >>> pressure and flow. Then, look for NOS finnie pump, or repair source,
> >>>
> >>> That way, you get to enjoy the car instead of not trusting it will
> leave
> >>> you stranded, and you have as much time as you need to locate a factory
> >>> pump.
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 2:37 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
>  With the plethora of ruined finnies on the market you ought be able to
> >> get
>  several used fuel pumps for a song.  Worth a try.
> 
>  On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 1:42 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
>  mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> > It’s a piece of metal that’s riveted or welded to the pump housing.
> You
> > have to understand we’re talking really, really small spaces here.
> Not
>  only
> > that, the “short” pump has fuel circulating around the motor, so the
> >> case
> > has to be sealed or you will be leaking fuel. So no holes or
> fasteners
> > through the case.
> >
> > It’s remotely possibly one could come up with a fix, but this is not
> > something I want to kludge. I’ll try and post some pictures later one
> >> so
> > you can see what I’m talking about.
> >
> >
> >> On Mar 15, 2019, at 1:24 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes <
>  mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> I agree. Can’t it be welded? What are the metals involved?
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> On Mar 15, 2019, at 12:09 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
>  fuel, which would eventually cause the JB Weld to fail.
> >>>
> >>> Soldering/brazing/nuts&bolts/rivets?  Seems like there ought to be
> a
> > mechanical
> >>> way to secure it.  A spring is a spring, find something similar and
>  put
> > it in.
> >>>
> >>> -- Jim
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
>

Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-15 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
The MB "Technical Data Passenger Cars" has the following for the fuel pump:

Feed pressure (after fuel fine filter) - 0.8 -1.1 kg/cm2 (perhaps they meant 
the fuel line filter?)
Feed final pressure (after overflow valve of injection pump) at least 1.3 kg/cm2
Feed capacity at least 3 liters/min

-D



> On Mar 15, 2019, at 11:18 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> For my own curiosity, what is the GPM and pressure spec for your Finnie at
> the delivery point?
> 
> I confess to no experience with that era injection system.  However, just
> happen to still hold an FAA Repair Station license and Repairman
> Certificates for numerous jet engine fuel systems, including one for the SR
> 71, [incase you want to go really fast ;))]  So, the thought comes there
> might be a viable work around for the shortage of original pumps.
> As part of those efforts, I designed and got certified by FAA, overhaul
> tooling and procedures for the various engine fuel systems and injectors.
> Perhaps I could apply some of that experience to "saving the Finnies" of
> the world.
> 
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 5:27 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Fortunately I have specs and it already has a regulator in the circuit.
>> More to come on this tomorrow.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 15, 2019, at 7:08 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Suggestion. Look up the GPM flow rate and Required Pressure for the
>> Finnie.
>>> Purchase a Faucet pump that is at or above the spec.. Also purchase a
>> fuel
>>> pressure regulator, which will meter fuel at the spec pressure, Add a
>> fuel
>>> pressure gage in the supply line to verify your setting adjustment, Once
>>> set, remove the pressure test gage and plumbing so it looks factory.
>>> 
>>> Drive on with confidence that you have a new pump that is supplying spec
>>> pressure and flow. Then, look for NOS finnie pump, or repair source,
>>> 
>>> That way, you get to enjoy the car instead of not trusting it will leave
>>> you stranded, and you have as much time as you need to locate a factory
>>> pump.
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 2:37 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
 With the plethora of ruined finnies on the market you ought be able to
>> get
 several used fuel pumps for a song.  Worth a try.
 
 On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 1:42 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
> It’s a piece of metal that’s riveted or welded to the pump housing. You
> have to understand we’re talking really, really small spaces here. Not
 only
> that, the “short” pump has fuel circulating around the motor, so the
>> case
> has to be sealed or you will be leaking fuel. So no holes or fasteners
> through the case.
> 
> It’s remotely possibly one could come up with a fix, but this is not
> something I want to kludge. I’ll try and post some pictures later one
>> so
> you can see what I’m talking about.
> 
> 
>> On Mar 15, 2019, at 1:24 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> wrote:
>> 
>> I agree. Can’t it be welded? What are the metals involved?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Mar 15, 2019, at 12:09 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
 fuel, which would eventually cause the JB Weld to fail.
>>> 
>>> Soldering/brazing/nuts&bolts/rivets?  Seems like there ought to be a
> mechanical
>>> way to secure it.  A spring is a spring, find something similar and
 put
> it in.
>>> 
>>> -- Jim
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Un

Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-15 Thread G Mann via Mercedes 
For my own curiosity, what is the GPM and pressure spec for your Finnie at
the delivery point?

I confess to no experience with that era injection system.  However, just
happen to still hold an FAA Repair Station license and Repairman
Certificates for numerous jet engine fuel systems, including one for the SR
71, [incase you want to go really fast ;))]  So, the thought comes there
might be a viable work around for the shortage of original pumps.
As part of those efforts, I designed and got certified by FAA, overhaul
tooling and procedures for the various engine fuel systems and injectors.
Perhaps I could apply some of that experience to "saving the Finnies" of
the world.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 5:27 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Fortunately I have specs and it already has a regulator in the circuit.
> More to come on this tomorrow.
>
> -D
>
>
> > On Mar 15, 2019, at 7:08 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> >
> > Suggestion. Look up the GPM flow rate and Required Pressure for the
> Finnie.
> > Purchase a Faucet pump that is at or above the spec.. Also purchase a
> fuel
> > pressure regulator, which will meter fuel at the spec pressure, Add a
> fuel
> > pressure gage in the supply line to verify your setting adjustment, Once
> > set, remove the pressure test gage and plumbing so it looks factory.
> >
> > Drive on with confidence that you have a new pump that is supplying spec
> > pressure and flow. Then, look for NOS finnie pump, or repair source,
> >
> > That way, you get to enjoy the car instead of not trusting it will leave
> > you stranded, and you have as much time as you need to locate a factory
> > pump.
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 2:37 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> With the plethora of ruined finnies on the market you ought be able to
> get
> >> several used fuel pumps for a song.  Worth a try.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 1:42 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> It’s a piece of metal that’s riveted or welded to the pump housing. You
> >>> have to understand we’re talking really, really small spaces here. Not
> >> only
> >>> that, the “short” pump has fuel circulating around the motor, so the
> case
> >>> has to be sealed or you will be leaking fuel. So no holes or fasteners
> >>> through the case.
> >>>
> >>> It’s remotely possibly one could come up with a fix, but this is not
> >>> something I want to kludge. I’ll try and post some pictures later one
> so
> >>> you can see what I’m talking about.
> >>>
> >>>
>  On Mar 15, 2019, at 1:24 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >>> wrote:
> 
>  I agree. Can’t it be welded? What are the metals involved?
> 
>  Sent from my iPhone
> 
>  On Mar 15, 2019, at 12:09 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> >> fuel, which would eventually cause the JB Weld to fail.
> >
> > Soldering/brazing/nuts&bolts/rivets?  Seems like there ought to be a
> >>> mechanical
> > way to secure it.  A spring is a spring, find something similar and
> >> put
> >>> it in.
> >
> > -- Jim
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> 
> 
>  ___
>  http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
>  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
>  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list ar

Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-15 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
Mechanical. Two plunger pump.

-D


> On Mar 15, 2019, at 8:47 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Mechanical or D-Jet?   D-Jet you can put a pressure relief/return line in to 
> reduce the flow and pressure from any lower pressure FI pump and allow the 
> regulator in the FI ring to do it's job.  There are retrofits available (or 
> there were when I was looking) for the D-Jet cars.  One of the electric pumps 
> used with carbs might work too, you need 32 psi and decent flow to allow the 
> intergral pressure regulator to work properly.
> 
> Mechanical is a different story and I can't help you much there, no 
> experience.
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-15 Thread Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
Mechanical or D-Jet?   D-Jet you can put a pressure relief/return line in to 
reduce the flow and pressure from any lower pressure FI pump and allow the 
regulator in the FI ring to do it's job.  There are retrofits available (or 
there were when I was looking) for the D-Jet cars.  One of the electric pumps 
used with carbs might work too, you need 32 psi and decent flow to allow the 
intergral pressure regulator to work properly.

Mechanical is a different story and I can't help you much there, no experience.
___
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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-15 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
Fortunately I have specs and it already has a regulator in the circuit. More to 
come on this tomorrow.

-D


> On Mar 15, 2019, at 7:08 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Suggestion. Look up the GPM flow rate and Required Pressure for the Finnie.
> Purchase a Faucet pump that is at or above the spec.. Also purchase a fuel
> pressure regulator, which will meter fuel at the spec pressure, Add a fuel
> pressure gage in the supply line to verify your setting adjustment, Once
> set, remove the pressure test gage and plumbing so it looks factory.
> 
> Drive on with confidence that you have a new pump that is supplying spec
> pressure and flow. Then, look for NOS finnie pump, or repair source,
> 
> That way, you get to enjoy the car instead of not trusting it will leave
> you stranded, and you have as much time as you need to locate a factory
> pump.
> 
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 2:37 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> With the plethora of ruined finnies on the market you ought be able to get
>> several used fuel pumps for a song.  Worth a try.
>> 
>> On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 1:42 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> It’s a piece of metal that’s riveted or welded to the pump housing. You
>>> have to understand we’re talking really, really small spaces here. Not
>> only
>>> that, the “short” pump has fuel circulating around the motor, so the case
>>> has to be sealed or you will be leaking fuel. So no holes or fasteners
>>> through the case.
>>> 
>>> It’s remotely possibly one could come up with a fix, but this is not
>>> something I want to kludge. I’ll try and post some pictures later one so
>>> you can see what I’m talking about.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Mar 15, 2019, at 1:24 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>> wrote:
 
 I agree. Can’t it be welded? What are the metals involved?
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Mar 15, 2019, at 12:09 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
>> fuel, which would eventually cause the JB Weld to fail.
> 
> Soldering/brazing/nuts&bolts/rivets?  Seems like there ought to be a
>>> mechanical
> way to secure it.  A spring is a spring, find something similar and
>> put
>>> it in.
> 
> -- Jim
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
 
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-15 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
You obviously know little about the fuel injections systems on the 1960s era 
cars.

Try Googling “0010915201 mercedes” and let me know what you find.

Pump has been NLA for years, only thing in the aftermarket is rebuilds. Bud’s 
Benz makes some sort of weird retrofit with no warranty, which gives you an 
idea of how much faith they put behind it.

-D



On Mar 15, 2019, at 5:36 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  wrote:
> 
> With the plethora of ruined finnies on the market you ought be able to get 
> several used fuel pumps for a song.  Worth a try.
> 
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 1:42 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> It’s a piece of metal that’s riveted or welded to the pump housing. You have 
> to understand we’re talking really, really small spaces here. Not only that, 
> the “short” pump has fuel circulating around the motor, so the case has to be 
> sealed or you will be leaking fuel. So no holes or fasteners through the case.
> 
> It’s remotely possibly one could come up with a fix, but this is not 
> something I want to kludge. I’ll try and post some pictures later one so you 
> can see what I’m talking about.
> 
> 
> > On Mar 15, 2019, at 1:24 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes  > > wrote:
> > 
> > I agree. Can’t it be welded? What are the metals involved?
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> > On Mar 15, 2019, at 12:09 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
> > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> > 
> >>> fuel, which would eventually cause the JB Weld to fail.
> >> 
> >> Soldering/brazing/nuts&bolts/rivets?  Seems like there ought to be a 
> >> mechanical
> >> way to secure it.  A spring is a spring, find something similar and put it 
> >> in.
> >> 
> >> -- Jim
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com 
> >> 
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com 
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com 
> > 
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ 
> > 
> > 
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com 
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ 
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 
> 

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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-15 Thread G Mann via Mercedes 
Suggestion. Look up the GPM flow rate and Required Pressure for the Finnie.
Purchase a Faucet pump that is at or above the spec.. Also purchase a fuel
pressure regulator, which will meter fuel at the spec pressure, Add a fuel
pressure gage in the supply line to verify your setting adjustment, Once
set, remove the pressure test gage and plumbing so it looks factory.

Drive on with confidence that you have a new pump that is supplying spec
pressure and flow. Then, look for NOS finnie pump, or repair source,

That way, you get to enjoy the car instead of not trusting it will leave
you stranded, and you have as much time as you need to locate a factory
pump.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 2:37 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> With the plethora of ruined finnies on the market you ought be able to get
> several used fuel pumps for a song.  Worth a try.
>
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 1:42 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > It’s a piece of metal that’s riveted or welded to the pump housing. You
> > have to understand we’re talking really, really small spaces here. Not
> only
> > that, the “short” pump has fuel circulating around the motor, so the case
> > has to be sealed or you will be leaking fuel. So no holes or fasteners
> > through the case.
> >
> > It’s remotely possibly one could come up with a fix, but this is not
> > something I want to kludge. I’ll try and post some pictures later one so
> > you can see what I’m talking about.
> >
> >
> > > On Mar 15, 2019, at 1:24 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I agree. Can’t it be welded? What are the metals involved?
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > On Mar 15, 2019, at 12:09 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >>> fuel, which would eventually cause the JB Weld to fail.
> > >>
> > >> Soldering/brazing/nuts&bolts/rivets?  Seems like there ought to be a
> > mechanical
> > >> way to secure it.  A spring is a spring, find something similar and
> put
> > it in.
> > >>
> > >> -- Jim
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >>
> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-15 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
With the plethora of ruined finnies on the market you ought be able to get
several used fuel pumps for a song.  Worth a try.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 1:42 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> It’s a piece of metal that’s riveted or welded to the pump housing. You
> have to understand we’re talking really, really small spaces here. Not only
> that, the “short” pump has fuel circulating around the motor, so the case
> has to be sealed or you will be leaking fuel. So no holes or fasteners
> through the case.
>
> It’s remotely possibly one could come up with a fix, but this is not
> something I want to kludge. I’ll try and post some pictures later one so
> you can see what I’m talking about.
>
>
> > On Mar 15, 2019, at 1:24 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> >
> > I agree. Can’t it be welded? What are the metals involved?
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Mar 15, 2019, at 12:09 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> fuel, which would eventually cause the JB Weld to fail.
> >>
> >> Soldering/brazing/nuts&bolts/rivets?  Seems like there ought to be a
> mechanical
> >> way to secure it.  A spring is a spring, find something similar and put
> it in.
> >>
> >> -- Jim
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> >>
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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-15 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
It’s a piece of metal that’s riveted or welded to the pump housing. You have to 
understand we’re talking really, really small spaces here. Not only that, the 
“short” pump has fuel circulating around the motor, so the case has to be 
sealed or you will be leaking fuel. So no holes or fasteners through the case.

It’s remotely possibly one could come up with a fix, but this is not something 
I want to kludge. I’ll try and post some pictures later one so you can see what 
I’m talking about.


> On Mar 15, 2019, at 1:24 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I agree. Can’t it be welded? What are the metals involved?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Mar 15, 2019, at 12:09 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
>>> fuel, which would eventually cause the JB Weld to fail.
>> 
>> Soldering/brazing/nuts&bolts/rivets?  Seems like there ought to be a 
>> mechanical
>> way to secure it.  A spring is a spring, find something similar and put it 
>> in.
>> 
>> -- Jim
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-15 Thread Dimitri via Mercedes 
I agree. Can’t it be welded? What are the metals involved?

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 15, 2019, at 12:09 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes  
wrote:

>> fuel, which would eventually cause the JB Weld to fail.
> 
> Soldering/brazing/nuts&bolts/rivets?  Seems like there ought to be a 
> mechanical
> way to secure it.  A spring is a spring, find something similar and put it in.
> 
> -- Jim
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-15 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
> fuel, which would eventually cause the JB Weld to fail.

Soldering/brazing/nuts&bolts/rivets?  Seems like there ought to be a mechanical
way to secure it.  A spring is a spring, find something similar and put it in.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-15 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
Pump is toast.

Popped the motor portion apart and found that one of the brush holders has 
broken loose from its mounting plate and the brush spring was pretty much 
chewed to nothing in the motor.

While I could possibly JB Weld the brush holder in place, I don’t see a way to 
replace the spring and there’s no service part for it. And since this is the 
“short” pump, the case is filled with fuel, which would eventually cause the JB 
Weld to fail.

Dang it.

But! I may have a viable alternative for a replacement at a significantly lower 
cost. More as the repair progresses….

-D

> On Mar 15, 2019, at 9:07 AM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Spray some WD40 in there. 
> 
> I don’t know why but seems like something to do
> 
> --FT
> Sent from iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 15, 2019, at 8:39 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I’m not going to try and bodge something up unless I absolutely have to.
>> 
>> I got the pump off the car and opened the housing. Impeller and pump portion 
>> look just fine. Motor seems a little “notchy”, but that could be due to the 
>> brushes riding against the commutator. Unfortunately, when I removed the 
>> sealing ring for the pump housing it broke, so I’m definitely going to have 
>> to replace that.
>> 
>> I’m going to let it dry out and then fire up the motor and see what it does.
>> 
>> It’s definitely a rebuild and looks pretty clean, so I’m not sure how old it 
>> is. I really don’t want to have to crack open the motor side, as that 
>> involves some pretty delicate work. I’m going to see how the motor runs once 
>> it dries out and I can put power to it without worrying about the remaining 
>> fuel residue bursting into flames in the event of a spark, then I’ll go from 
>> there.
>> 
>> I’ll order a rebuild kit anyway, as I need the pump body sealing ring. That 
>> way if I do have to get into it further I’ll have everything on hand.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 15, 2019, at 8:34 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> You can sub a higher P/V pump and put a flow control/pressure relief valve 
>>> and return line under there with it.
>>> 
>>> Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote on 3/15/19 5:40 AM:
 Only if it’s not rebuildable.
 
 Amazing that this pump is so unique that no one has ever made or marketed 
 a reasonably priced alternative. I saw that Bud’s Benz makes a knockoff, 
 but they want $700 for it. If you shop it hard you can find rebuilt Bosch 
 pumps in that price range.
 
 And Craig - these are not generic fuel pumps. It’s a specific pressure and 
 volume, there’s no generic replacement that I know of.
 
 -D
 
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-15 Thread Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
Spray some WD40 in there. 

I don’t know why but seems like something to do

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Mar 15, 2019, at 8:39 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I’m not going to try and bodge something up unless I absolutely have to.
> 
> I got the pump off the car and opened the housing. Impeller and pump portion 
> look just fine. Motor seems a little “notchy”, but that could be due to the 
> brushes riding against the commutator. Unfortunately, when I removed the 
> sealing ring for the pump housing it broke, so I’m definitely going to have 
> to replace that.
> 
> I’m going to let it dry out and then fire up the motor and see what it does.
> 
> It’s definitely a rebuild and looks pretty clean, so I’m not sure how old it 
> is. I really don’t want to have to crack open the motor side, as that 
> involves some pretty delicate work. I’m going to see how the motor runs once 
> it dries out and I can put power to it without worrying about the remaining 
> fuel residue bursting into flames in the event of a spark, then I’ll go from 
> there.
> 
> I’ll order a rebuild kit anyway, as I need the pump body sealing ring. That 
> way if I do have to get into it further I’ll have everything on hand.
> 
> -D
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 15, 2019, at 8:34 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> You can sub a higher P/V pump and put a flow control/pressure relief valve 
>> and return line under there with it.
>> 
>> Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote on 3/15/19 5:40 AM:
>>> Only if it’s not rebuildable.
>>> 
>>> Amazing that this pump is so unique that no one has ever made or marketed a 
>>> reasonably priced alternative. I saw that Bud’s Benz makes a knockoff, but 
>>> they want $700 for it. If you shop it hard you can find rebuilt Bosch pumps 
>>> in that price range.
>>> 
>>> And Craig - these are not generic fuel pumps. It’s a specific pressure and 
>>> volume, there’s no generic replacement that I know of.
>>> 
>>> -D
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-15 Thread Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
Awe, come on Dan.  We all know that a really great story usually ends with
"and then everything burst into flames!"
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 8:40 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I’m not going to try and bodge something up unless I absolutely have to.
>
> I got the pump off the car and opened the housing. Impeller and pump
> portion look just fine. Motor seems a little “notchy”, but that could be
> due to the brushes riding against the commutator. Unfortunately, when I
> removed the sealing ring for the pump housing it broke, so I’m definitely
> going to have to replace that.
>
> I’m going to let it dry out and then fire up the motor and see what it
> does.
>
> It’s definitely a rebuild and looks pretty clean, so I’m not sure how old
> it is. I really don’t want to have to crack open the motor side, as that
> involves some pretty delicate work. I’m going to see how the motor runs
> once it dries out and I can put power to it without worrying about the
> remaining fuel residue bursting into flames in the event of a spark, then
> I’ll go from there.
>
> I’ll order a rebuild kit anyway, as I need the pump body sealing ring.
> That way if I do have to get into it further I’ll have everything on hand.
>
> -D
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 15, 2019, at 8:34 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > You can sub a higher P/V pump and put a flow control/pressure relief
> valve and return line under there with it.
> >
> > Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote on 3/15/19 5:40 AM:
> >> Only if it’s not rebuildable.
> >>
> >> Amazing that this pump is so unique that no one has ever made or
> marketed a reasonably priced alternative. I saw that Bud’s Benz makes a
> knockoff, but they want $700 for it. If you shop it hard you can find
> rebuilt Bosch pumps in that price range.
> >>
> >> And Craig - these are not generic fuel pumps. It’s a specific pressure
> and volume, there’s no generic replacement that I know of.
> >>
> >> -D
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
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> >
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-15 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
I’m not going to try and bodge something up unless I absolutely have to.

I got the pump off the car and opened the housing. Impeller and pump portion 
look just fine. Motor seems a little “notchy”, but that could be due to the 
brushes riding against the commutator. Unfortunately, when I removed the 
sealing ring for the pump housing it broke, so I’m definitely going to have to 
replace that.

I’m going to let it dry out and then fire up the motor and see what it does.

It’s definitely a rebuild and looks pretty clean, so I’m not sure how old it 
is. I really don’t want to have to crack open the motor side, as that involves 
some pretty delicate work. I’m going to see how the motor runs once it dries 
out and I can put power to it without worrying about the remaining fuel residue 
bursting into flames in the event of a spark, then I’ll go from there.

I’ll order a rebuild kit anyway, as I need the pump body sealing ring. That way 
if I do have to get into it further I’ll have everything on hand.

-D




> On Mar 15, 2019, at 8:34 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> You can sub a higher P/V pump and put a flow control/pressure relief valve 
> and return line under there with it.
> 
> Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote on 3/15/19 5:40 AM:
>> Only if it’s not rebuildable.
>> 
>> Amazing that this pump is so unique that no one has ever made or marketed a 
>> reasonably priced alternative. I saw that Bud’s Benz makes a knockoff, but 
>> they want $700 for it. If you shop it hard you can find rebuilt Bosch pumps 
>> in that price range.
>> 
>> And Craig - these are not generic fuel pumps. It’s a specific pressure and 
>> volume, there’s no generic replacement that I know of.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-15 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes 
You can sub a higher P/V pump and put a flow control/pressure relief 
valve and return line under there with it.


Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote on 3/15/19 5:40 AM:

Only if it’s not rebuildable.

Amazing that this pump is so unique that no one has ever made or marketed a 
reasonably priced alternative. I saw that Bud’s Benz makes a knockoff, but they 
want $700 for it. If you shop it hard you can find rebuilt Bosch pumps in that 
price range.

And Craig - these are not generic fuel pumps. It’s a specific pressure and 
volume, there’s no generic replacement that I know of.

-D





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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-15 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes 

Or hang a pump/filter unit from a 210, 211 etc under there.

Craig via Mercedes wrote on 3/14/19 10:33 PM:

On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 22:27:14 -0500 Peter Frederick via Mercedes
 wrote:


Corroded connectors or a bad fuel pump relay will do the same thing.

Had this issue with the TE, bad rear fuel pump would cause stalling and
starting issues.  Replaced it and all is well.  Not really an option on
a Finny though, I'd guess the fuel pumps are getting a bit hard to
find.

If you can't find parts for your Finnie's fuel pump, you could try new:

http://www.facet-purolator.com/index.php
http://www.facet-purolator.com/distribution-network.php
http://www.facet-purolator.com/retail-products.php
http://www.facet-purolator.com/faq.php

http://www.facet-purolator.com/gold-flo.php
http://www.facet-purolator.com/cube-fuel-pumps.php
http://www.facet-purolator.com/posi-flo-pumps.php
http://www.facet-purolator.com/dura-lift-pumps.php
http://www.facet-purolator.com/injector-pumps.php
http://www.facet-purolator.com/accessories.php



Craig

















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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-15 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
Only if it’s not rebuildable.

Amazing that this pump is so unique that no one has ever made or marketed a 
reasonably priced alternative. I saw that Bud’s Benz makes a knockoff, but they 
want $700 for it. If you shop it hard you can find rebuilt Bosch pumps in that 
price range.

And Craig - these are not generic fuel pumps. It’s a specific pressure and 
volume, there’s no generic replacement that I know of.

-D


> On Mar 14, 2019, at 11:33 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> And crazy expensive. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 14, 2019, at 11:27 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Corroded connectors or a bad fuel pump relay will do the same thing.
>> 
>> Had this issue with the TE, bad rear fuel pump would cause stalling and 
>> starting issues.  Replaced it and all is well.  Not really an option on a 
>> Finny though, I'd guess the fuel pumps are getting a bit hard to find.
>> ___
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>> 
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>> 
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>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-14 Thread Dimitri via Mercedes 
And crazy expensive. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 14, 2019, at 11:27 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Corroded connectors or a bad fuel pump relay will do the same thing.
> 
> Had this issue with the TE, bad rear fuel pump would cause stalling and 
> starting issues.  Replaced it and all is well.  Not really an option on a 
> Finny though, I'd guess the fuel pumps are getting a bit hard to find.
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-14 Thread Craig via Mercedes 
On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 22:27:14 -0500 Peter Frederick via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Corroded connectors or a bad fuel pump relay will do the same thing.
> 
> Had this issue with the TE, bad rear fuel pump would cause stalling and
> starting issues.  Replaced it and all is well.  Not really an option on
> a Finny though, I'd guess the fuel pumps are getting a bit hard to
> find.

If you can't find parts for your Finnie's fuel pump, you could try new:

http://www.facet-purolator.com/index.php
http://www.facet-purolator.com/distribution-network.php
http://www.facet-purolator.com/retail-products.php
http://www.facet-purolator.com/faq.php

http://www.facet-purolator.com/gold-flo.php
http://www.facet-purolator.com/cube-fuel-pumps.php
http://www.facet-purolator.com/posi-flo-pumps.php
http://www.facet-purolator.com/dura-lift-pumps.php
http://www.facet-purolator.com/injector-pumps.php
http://www.facet-purolator.com/accessories.php



Craig


















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Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-14 Thread Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
Corroded connectors or a bad fuel pump relay will do the same thing.

Had this issue with the TE, bad rear fuel pump would cause stalling and 
starting issues.  Replaced it and all is well.  Not really an option on a Finny 
though, I'd guess the fuel pumps are getting a bit hard to find.
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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-14 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
Absolutely - there is a silver lining!

It starts and stops intermittently, and is definitely not coming up to speed. I 
could hear and feel this when I was under the car. This could be:

Galled impeller
Clogged supply line or screen
Bad bearing(s)
Bad brushes

There are plenty of sources for rebuild kits, which appear to run in the $75 
range, which isn’t bad at all. Since it does run, albeit poorly, I’m hoping the 
electrical parts are OK as pretty much anything else can be dealt with short of 
a bum impeller, which is rare based on the research I’ve done so far.

Since I’m stoked about getting started on the reassembly of the interior, I’ll 
be getting an early start tomorrow and tearing into the pump right away. Worst 
case scenario if I have to wait on a rebuild kit, I can still work on the 
interior….

-D



> On Mar 14, 2019, at 10:36 PM, Dimitri  wrote:
> 
> Well the good news is that the headliner turned out great!
> 
> From my experience, those pumps can run and appear fine but not put out the 
> correct volume of fuel. They are supposed to put out  so many cubic 
> centimeters per 15 seconds. I don’t know what the figures should be on your 
> car.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 14, 2019, at 10:24 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Went to the upholstery shop to pick up the finnie from getting its new 
>> headliner. Turned out very, very nice and I was really excited to get it 
>> home and begin the reassembly process.
>> 
>> Drive the 30 or so miles home. At a three way stop about two blocks from the 
>> house the car dies. Hmm. With the engine off and the key on, I notice I 
>> don’t hear the fuel pump. Poop.
>> 
>> Youngest son swings by with a strap and tows me home. Get the car in the 
>> garage and crawl under it after turning the key. I can hear the pump going 
>> on and off, running in fits and starts, so at least it’s not locked up.
>> 
>> First thing tomorrow morning I’ll be dropping the pump to crack it open and 
>> see what’s up. Hopefully nothing major.
>> 
>> Can’t complain, this is twice now the car has had a problem and it was 
>> either in the driveway after a drive home or within a block or two of the 
>> house. Only bummer is that is slows down my reassembly plans.
>> 
>> -D
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>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>> 
> 
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Crazy Day with the Finnie

2019-03-14 Thread Dimitri via Mercedes 
Well the good news is that the headliner turned out great!

From my experience, those pumps can run and appear fine but not put out the 
correct volume of fuel. They are supposed to put out  so many cubic centimeters 
per 15 seconds. I don’t know what the figures should be on your car.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 14, 2019, at 10:24 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Went to the upholstery shop to pick up the finnie from getting its new 
> headliner. Turned out very, very nice and I was really excited to get it home 
> and begin the reassembly process.
> 
> Drive the 30 or so miles home. At a three way stop about two blocks from the 
> house the car dies. Hmm. With the engine off and the key on, I notice I don’t 
> hear the fuel pump. Poop.
> 
> Youngest son swings by with a strap and tows me home. Get the car in the 
> garage and crawl under it after turning the key. I can hear the pump going on 
> and off, running in fits and starts, so at least it’s not locked up.
> 
> First thing tomorrow morning I’ll be dropping the pump to crack it open and 
> see what’s up. Hopefully nothing major.
> 
> Can’t complain, this is twice now the car has had a problem and it was either 
> in the driveway after a drive home or within a block or two of the house. 
> Only bummer is that is slows down my reassembly plans.
> 
> -D
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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