Re: [MBZ] Crumple zones

2005-10-26 Thread Peter Frederick
Unless I'm mistaken, the Ponton was the first chassis with crumple 
zones and a rigid passenger compartment.  the Adenauer was the last car 
built with a separate chassis with body bolted on.


Makes Detroit's refusal to do anything to make cars safer look pretty 
shabby.


Peter




Re: [MBZ] Crumple zones

2005-10-26 Thread David Brodbeck

Peter Frederick wrote:
Unless I'm mistaken, the Ponton was the first chassis with crumple 
zones and a rigid passenger compartment.  the Adenauer was the last car 
built with a separate chassis with body bolted on.


Makes Detroit's refusal to do anything to make cars safer look pretty 
shabby.
 


Which was actually the point of Ralph Nader's book, Unsafe at Any 
Speed.  I'd gotten the impression, from the automotive press, that it 
was mostly a diatribe against the Corvair's unusual handling 
characteristics.  When I read it I was surprised to find that it was, in 
fact, mostly about other safety flaws that applied to many cars, and 
about the general lack of interest Detroit had in safety at the time.  
Problems like hard-surfaced dashboards, non-collapsible steering 
columns, chrome trim in the driver's eye line, and cars sold with tires 
that weren't designed to support their fully loaded weight.  It's still 
an interesting read, just to see where we've come from.





Re: [MBZ] Crumple zones

2005-10-26 Thread Peter Frederick
The Corvair had two lethal problems, one by design and one by pure 
idiocy, I think --


to whit:  the swing axle rear end was not protected against jacking, so 
at very high side loads the outside rear wheel could aquire so much 
camber that the rim would dig into the pavement.  The resultant 
rollover combined with the totat lack of roof strength usually killed 
the passengers as their heads hit the pavement via the roof.  This was 
avoided in the original design by a hook in the frame so that the 
control arm wouldn't travel that far, but Ed Cole demanded that it be 
removed because it cost $1.50 per car over leaving it off.  It cost the 
executives at GM a lot more than that, all told, to bury the kids they 
had that rolled them, as every executive that had a teen driver got 
them a Corvair, and several were maimed or killed.


The other idiocy, and I don't know if it was by design or just plan not 
looking, was that the steering column was solid, and the steering box 
was IN FRONT of the front axle.  This was the preferred location for GM 
steering boxes until the Feds made them move them back in 1969.  
Naturally, a beer can has more structural rigidity than a 60's GM 
product, so the predictable result of hitting anything in the Corvair 
was that the steering wheel shot out of the dash and upwards, neatly 
breaking the driver's neck.  This design feature was present up to 
1969 when the collapsable steering column was installed, hopefully 
preventing any more unnecessary deaths.


Fortunately, even the Japanese have figured out crash safety, so we can 
drive at the ridiculous speeds we do and not risk instant death in an 
accident (unless driving a US made SUV).


Peter


On Tuesday, October 25, 2005, at 10:47  PM, David Brodbeck wrote:


Peter Frederick wrote:

Unless I'm mistaken, the Ponton was the first chassis with crumple
zones and a rigid passenger compartment.  the Adenauer was the last 
car

built with a separate chassis with body bolted on.

Makes Detroit's refusal to do anything to make cars safer look pretty
shabby.



Which was actually the point of Ralph Nader's book, Unsafe at Any
Speed.  I'd gotten the impression, from the automotive press, that it
was mostly a diatribe against the Corvair's unusual handling
characteristics.  When I read it I was surprised to find that it was, 
in

fact, mostly about other safety flaws that applied to many cars, and
about the general lack of interest Detroit had in safety at the time.
Problems like hard-surfaced dashboards, non-collapsible steering
columns, chrome trim in the driver's eye line, and cars sold with tires
that weren't designed to support their fully loaded weight.  It's still
an interesting read, just to see where we've come from.


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Re: [MBZ] Crumple zones

2005-10-25 Thread Peter Frederick
Actually, I think it was 1953, along with unibody construction.  They 
have improved each rendition


55mph headon in ANY car you are lucky to be alive!

Peter




Re: [MBZ] Crumple zones

2005-10-25 Thread Marshall Booth

BillR wrote:

Steve MacSween wrote:


As to Mercedes, I assume you had tongue in cheek? Mercedes was the first
company to actually crash test vehicles (in the late 1950s or early 60s),
and it was a Mercedes engineer who patented the concept of automotive
crumple zones.




I was told that the '62 220Sb I was driving when I had 'the big one' was the
first production car with them.  I didn't exactly walk away from a head-on
at 55MPH [3mos in the hospital, three more in a body cast] but I lived a lot
longer than the girl who hit me in her boy friends mid 60's Chevy.  Steering
column through her chest.


Pretty sure the mid/late 50s pontons were built using crumple zones.

I have several friends and relatives that have survived highway head-ons 
in Mercedes built between the late 50s thru the early 80s. If I have to 
have a head-on, I'd prefer it be in a Mercedes.


Marshall
--
Marshall Booth Ph.D.
Ass't Prof. (ret.)
Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
Department of Pharmacology  1300 BST
Pittsburgh PA 15261 USA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]