Re: [MBZ] OT: Laptop info needed
On 24/01/2013 11:00 AM, M G wrote: OK my turn to go off talking about MBs. My laptop crumped. It was an Asus G1 and has served well for a long time. I have another newer laptop that I absolutely hate as it has win7 and will not allow XP Pro to be installed. It is an HP G60-635DX and nowhere can I find any drivers for XP or any instructions on how to go about doing the dirty deed. Yes I know that linux of some flavor or another may be installable but I have some older programs that require no later then XP in order to run. No I don't want to run XP in a virtual machine under linux or win7 as that is to me just too cumbersome. My thought is to see if anyone knows of a laptop that I can look for that has drivers for XP and will allow XP to be installed. I would prefer one that runs at 2+ ghz, has all the normal plugin possibilities, and will take a 6 gig drive or bigger. I don't need a huge screen and don't really like the keyboards that have a numeric keypad added in the right of the normal keyboard as I don't use it and it puts the keyboard off center and it feels wrong. So there it is. I would be grateful for any suggestions. Manfred ___ How about upgrading the version of Win7 to Pro? I have not done so, but I am told that the older programs can be run under Win7 if one has the correct version. I would truly like to know if it is true, as there is one old program that I want to use too. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Laptop info needed
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: > How about upgrading the version of Win7 to Pro? > I have not done so, but I am told that the older programs can be run under > Win7 if one has the correct version. > I did not know it was linked to "Pro" [only version I have] but it is true that there is a compatibility mode; in some cases it is even automatic. It works pretty well, except for some rogue programs that are defined to look in random places. (I had one Windows 98 program that was looking in an odd place for a file, I don't even remember what it was but just something to keep in mind.) If you mention a program name I can maybe try it out? I have found 7 to run significantly faster, on the same hardware as XP. Thanks, -Tim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Laptop info needed
On 24/01/2013 11:38 AM, Tim C wrote: On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: How about upgrading the version of Win7 to Pro? I have not done so, but I am told that the older programs can be run under Win7 if one has the correct version. I did not know it was linked to "Pro" [only version I have] but it is true that there is a compatibility mode; in some cases it is even automatic. It works pretty well, except for some rogue programs that are defined to look in random places. (I had one Windows 98 program that was looking in an odd place for a file, I don't even remember what it was but just something to keep in mind.) If you mention a program name I can maybe try it out? I have found 7 to run significantly faster, on the same hardware as XP. Thanks, -Tim ___ The program I was using was Omniform 5.1 version if I recall correctly. I cannot buy a new version as the company got bought up by Nuance (again if I recall correctly). They have rolled it into some other program and although I have bought a couple of versions of it, I have never been able to make it work like the old one did. I don't know if that is just me and I have not given it enough effort or what but it is frustrating as the old version was useful. I could scan an existing paper form and turn it into a document that I could fill in the blanks on and print. Useful for a lawyer. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Laptop info needed
> Randy Bennell wrote: > The program I was using was Omniform 5.1 version if I recall > correctly. > I could scan an existing paper form and turn it into a > document that I could fill in the blanks on and print. Inkscape can do that. The scanned document is a bitmap. Inkscape can load that and then text can be put on top. It's free as in "free pizza" and free as in "freedom". I know there are a Mac, MSWin, and Linux ports. --Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Laptop info needed
On Jan 24, 2013, at 11:00 AM, "M G" wrote: > Yes I know that linux of some flavor or another may be installable but I have > some older programs that require no later then XP in order to run. No I don't > want to run XP in a virtual machine under linux or win7 as that is to me just > too cumbersome. > > My thought is to see if anyone knows of a laptop that I can look for that has > drivers for XP and will allow XP to be installed. I would prefer one that > runs at 2+ ghz, has all the normal plugin possibilities, and will take a 6 > gig drive or bigger. I don't need a huge screen and don't really like the > keyboards that have a numeric keypad added in the right of the normal > keyboard as I don't use it and it puts the keyboard off center and it feels > wrong. > > So there it is. I would be grateful for any suggestions. Ugh. Windows XP is almost at the end of its life cycle. All new computers that are Windows based are shipping with Windows 8, which is three generations newer than XP. You are hanging on to an obsolete operating system. Windows 7 will run most XP programs in "XP mode" I believe. A Lenovo T-60 or T-61 would fit your needs nicely. As would a Dell D-630. I run Linux. Much like Apple products "it just works". I do have to boot into Windows soon though, TurboTax doesn't make a Linux version. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Laptop info needed
I have over 30,000 clients running XP, which are being replaced with Windows 7 machines at the rate of about 5,000/year. At that rate I will be all in on Windows 7 when Windows 8 is approaching end of life. Say what you want, but XP has been good for us from an enterprise standpoint. 7 is OK but has its quirks. And we are finally moving to DFS! Hallelujah! No more drive mapping! Dan who is migrating a file server right now courtesy of Robocopy Sent from my iPad On Jan 24, 2013, at 7:46 PM, Rick Knoble wrote: > On Jan 24, 2013, at 11:00 AM, "M G" wrote: > >> Yes I know that linux of some flavor or another may be installable but I >> have some older programs that require no later then XP in order to run. No I >> don't want to run XP in a virtual machine under linux or win7 as that is to >> me just too cumbersome. >> >> My thought is to see if anyone knows of a laptop that I can look for that >> has drivers for XP and will allow XP to be installed. I would prefer one >> that runs at 2+ ghz, has all the normal plugin possibilities, and will take >> a 6 gig drive or bigger. I don't need a huge screen and don't really like >> the keyboards that have a numeric keypad added in the right of the normal >> keyboard as I don't use it and it puts the keyboard off center and it feels >> wrong. >> >> So there it is. I would be grateful for any suggestions. > > > Ugh. Windows XP is almost at the end of its life cycle. All new computers > that are Windows based are shipping with Windows 8, which is three > generations newer than XP. You are hanging on to an obsolete operating > system. Windows 7 will run most XP programs in "XP mode" I believe. > A Lenovo T-60 or T-61 would fit your needs nicely. As would a Dell D-630. > I run Linux. Much like Apple products "it just works". I do have to boot into > Windows soon though, TurboTax doesn't make a Linux version. > > Rick > Sent from my iPhone > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Laptop info needed
On Jan 24, 2013, at 6:57 PM, "Dan Penoff" wrote: > Say what you want, but XP has been good for us from an enterprise standpoint. > 7 is OK but has its quirks. I didn't say it was a bad OS. I said it is nearing EOL. I know someone still running Windows 98. It still works, it is just not supported. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Laptop info needed
I have a T-60 that I need to sell XP is still alive until April 2014, it's not dead YET! (said the man with the thick Monty Python/British accent :) ) Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '98 ML320 "Max" (160,xxx mi) On 1/24/2013 6:46 PM, Rick Knoble wrote: On Jan 24, 2013, at 11:00 AM, "M G" wrote: Yes I know that linux of some flavor or another may be installable but I have some older programs that require no later then XP in order to run. No I don't want to run XP in a virtual machine under linux or win7 as that is to me just too cumbersome. My thought is to see if anyone knows of a laptop that I can look for that has drivers for XP and will allow XP to be installed. I would prefer one that runs at 2+ ghz, has all the normal plugin possibilities, and will take a 6 gig drive or bigger. I don't need a huge screen and don't really like the keyboards that have a numeric keypad added in the right of the normal keyboard as I don't use it and it puts the keyboard off center and it feels wrong. So there it is. I would be grateful for any suggestions. Ugh. Windows XP is almost at the end of its life cycle. All new computers that are Windows based are shipping with Windows 8, which is three generations newer than XP. You are hanging on to an obsolete operating system. Windows 7 will run most XP programs in "XP mode" I believe. A Lenovo T-60 or T-61 would fit your needs nicely. As would a Dell D-630. I run Linux. Much like Apple products "it just works". I do have to boot into Windows soon though, TurboTax doesn't make a Linux version. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Laptop info needed
Thanks Rick, I'll look for those. Manfred Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 18:46:01 -0600 From: Rick Knoble To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Laptop info needed A Lenovo T-60 or T-61 would fit your needs nicely. As would a Dell D-630. I run Linux. Much like Apple products "it just works". I do have to boot into Windows soon though, TurboTax doesn't make a Linux version. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Laptop info needed
> > "M G" wrote: > > > > Yes I know that linux of some flavor or another may be > > installable but I have some older programs that require no > > later then XP in order to run. No I don't want to run XP in > > a virtual machine under linux or win7 as that is to me just > > too cumbersome. > Rick Knoble wrote: > > I run Linux. Much like Apple products "it just works". I do > have to boot into Windows soon though, TurboTax doesn't make a > Linux version. Better than Apple in that regard. It might take more to get it set to be comfortable - but it's quite rare for something to quit working. Once it's working it stays that way. As far as a virtual machine, what aspect do you find cumbersome? -- Philip, with less than 20 virtual machines. I think... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Laptop info needed
...and I am busy occupying my time at work migrating virtualized Windows 2000 servers on to 2008R2 Server VMs. Oy. Dan who is not nearing EOL Sent from my iPad On Jan 24, 2013, at 9:15 PM, Rick Knoble wrote: > On Jan 24, 2013, at 6:57 PM, "Dan Penoff" wrote: > >> Say what you want, but XP has been good for us from an enterprise >> standpoint. 7 is OK but has its quirks. > > > I didn't say it was a bad OS. I said it is nearing EOL. I know someone still > running Windows 98. It still works, it is just not supported. > > Rick > Sent from my iPhone > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Laptop info needed
Facts of life. Win XP is as strong in business now as it was ~10 years ago. Particularly when optimized for performance and the "classic" start screen is used (so as to make it look like windows 2000) Our machines at work are XP, and there is no interest in moving. We just loaded orifice 2003 on a couple machines today. Again, it works fine. Not as quirky as orifice 2007. Being EOL, M$ is not as anal about their fees as they are with the latest. Not many businesses on Win 7 or 8. More likely to go penguin than support Bill's old age. We buy used hardware for $30 to $50. Keeps the IT budget in line. If I were looking for a winders laptop, I'd be looking for XP compatibility too. That said, for an XP laptop, my choice is a Macbook. Use the mac for most things then run XP with bootcamp or as a VM for what you need to. I have been running that way for several years. Last 2 years, no xp. once in a while I wish I had it, but never enough to feel it is woth the time to load on my VM on the macbook. Remember when the macbook came out, it was the fastest Winders laptop, either bare or with bootcamp. SWMBO had a hard drive die a year ago on the very first edition of white Macbook. What's that? 7 years old now? My early macbook unibody had a fan go out last year. Still not bad for 5 years or whatever it is. I do freely admit that I have winxp machines available for the times I really need xp. Otherwise, I'd have broken down and installed it with bootcamp or the VM. I have over 30,000 clients running XP, which are being replaced with Windows 7 machines at the rate of about 5,000/year. At that rate I will be all in on Windows 7 when Windows 8 is approaching end of life. Say what you want, but XP has been good for us from an enterprise standpoint. 7 is OK but has its quirks. And we are finally moving to DFS! Hallelujah! No more drive mapping! Dan who is migrating a file server right now courtesy of Robocopy Sent from my iPad On Jan 24, 2013, at 7:46 PM, Rick Knoble wrote: On Jan 24, 2013, at 11:00 AM, "M G" wrote: Yes I know that linux of some flavor or another may be installable but I have some older programs that require no later then XP in order to run. No I don't want to run XP in a virtual machine under linux or win7 as that is to me just too cumbersome. My thought is to see if anyone knows of a laptop that I can look for that has drivers for XP and will allow XP to be installed. I would prefer one that runs at 2+ ghz, has all the normal plugin possibilities, and will take a 6 gig drive or bigger. I don't need a huge screen and don't really like the keyboards that have a numeric keypad added in the right of the normal keyboard as I don't use it and it puts the keyboard off center and it feels wrong. So there it is. I would be grateful for any suggestions. Ugh. Windows XP is almost at the end of its life cycle. All new computers that are Windows based are shipping with Windows 8, which is three generations newer than XP. You are hanging on to an obsolete operating system. Windows 7 will run most XP programs in "XP mode" I believe. A Lenovo T-60 or T-61 would fit your needs nicely. As would a Dell D-630. I run Linux. Much like Apple products "it just works". I do have to boot into Windows soon though, TurboTax doesn't make a Linux version. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Laptop info needed
would have to install and configure as well as learn how to do it all. Then I have also heard that it is in some cases a lot slower and not all programs run in a virtual machine. Or so I was told. Of course there is also the fact that I no longer can find all the program disks to reinstall the programs I have. Manfred Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 20:27:07 -0600 From: Fmiser To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Laptop info needed . No I don't want to run XP in > > a virtual machine under linux or win7 as that is to me just > > too cumbersome. > Rick Knoble wrote: > > I run Linux. Much like Apple products "it just works". I do > have to boot into Windows soon though, TurboTax doesn't make a > Linux version. Better than Apple in that regard. It might take more to get it set to be comfortable - but it's quite rare for something to quit working. Once it's working it stays that way. As far as a virtual machine, what aspect do you find cumbersome? -- Philip, with less than 20 virtual machines. I think... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Laptop info needed
> > Fmiser wrote: > > > > As far as a virtual machine, what aspect do you find > > cumbersome? > M G wrote: > > would have to install and configure as well as learn how to do > it all. It's really not very hard. Setup is covered by dozens of web tutorials. Then you install the OS just like a "bare metal" computer. > Then I have also heard that it is in some cases a lot > slower... It can be, but most processors made in the last 8 years or so have stuff that makes the virtual machine run at upwards of 95% "native" speed. Usually like 99%. Oh, and you can get VirtualBox (the program for hosting the guest virtual machines) for MS Win. So you could have a WinXP guest running one a Win8 host. > and not all programs run in a virtual machine. Or so I > was told. I am far from a typical user. But so far, out of more than 60 or so pro audio specialized software I have fond two that won't. One has something to do with the USB interface and so the program runs fine but can't communicate with the external hardware. The other is a network multitrack sound interface. It seems for this one it is a license _restriction_, not actually problem with using a virtual machine. > Of course there is also the fact that I no longer can find all > the program disks to reinstall the programs I have. Ah. That will be a problem no matter _what_ you do for a new computer. New hardware or new virtual machine will both need installers. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Laptop info needed
On Jan 25, 2013, at 6:21 PM, "M G" wrote: > > Of course there is also the fact that I no longer can find all the program > disks to reinstall the programs I have. Then you are hosed if you switch to a new computer, unless you image your computer to a new hard drive and install that in the new computer. Winders may not like the new hardware though. IIRC, Windows has a limit on the number of hardware changes it sees before it decides you are trying to be a pirate. Aarrr. What software do you need? The Linux world likely has a free or low cost answer :-) Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Laptop info needed
On Jan 25, 2013 10:33 PM, "Fmiser" wrote: > > won't. One has something to do with the USB interface and so > the program runs fine but can't communicate with the external > hardware. I know you love virtual box, but have you tried this one under VMWare Player? I have had uncanny success using USB peripherals through my Linux host to my Windows VM on the newest Player builds. I vaguely recall there is a way to flip the "this is running inside a VM" bit with the VMX, but that doesn't change the license so probably wouldn't do you any good. > > Of course there is also the fact that I no longer can find all > > the program disks to reinstall the programs I have. > > Ah. That will be a problem no matter _what_ you do for a new > computer. New hardware or new virtual machine will both need > installers. Not necessarily, VMWare Converter (free) will convert an existing machine into a VMWare image. I assume from that point you could further convert to another image type. In any case if there were programs I needed for work and I didn't have the install disks, I would install VMWare Converter, run out and get an external drive bigger than the base computer, and make a backup image ASAP. I would probably even pay the markup to get the drive locally. Otherwise you are one hard drive crash from never being able to use those programs again, at least not without a lot of unnecessary effort. You don't have to set up the VM infrastructure immediately or even soon, but you are really going to want that image at some point. Best, Tim has a Seagate on the mantle to be RMA'd ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Laptop info needed
Thank you for clearing up some of my misconceptions Philip. The problem with the program disks is not a problem if the computer is running XP directly as the disk will be either exchanged with the disk already in the computer or if the disk in the computer is bigger then the old disk will be cloned onto the new disk. That way everything will still work, or should anyway. If a used/refurbished Asus G1 or G1s was not so expensive then I would get another one of them but it seems like they cost upwards of $1000 or more for the couple I have found. Course those may have been on old pages from years ago, can't tell. The one I have went to Iraq in 05 with my daughter and lasted till now when I screwed up and forgot to clean the radiator so that the video chip overheated and died. Manfred Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 21:31:07 -0600 From: Fmiser To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Laptop info needed > Of course there is also the fact that I no longer can find all > the program disks to reinstall the programs I have. Ah. That will be a problem no matter _what_ you do for a new computer. New hardware or new virtual machine will both need installers. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Laptop info needed
> > "Fmiser" wrote: > > > > won't. One has something to do with the USB interface and so > > the program runs fine but can't communicate with the external > > hardware. > Tim C wrote: > > I know you love virtual box, but have you tried this one under > VMWare Player? I have had uncanny success using USB > peripherals through my Linux host to my Windows VM on the > newest Player builds. I use Virtualbox. I actually started by using QEmu. Had that running, but MSWin would not install dotNet. So I gave up and went to VMware - but every kernel change meant mucking about with patches that didn't work, and hours spent trying to get the kernel drivers going. For me, VirtualBox is as easy as "aptitude install" - and apt takes care of things as the kernels migrate. So I have not touched VMWare in, oh 6 years or so... > I vaguely recall there is a way to flip the "this is running > inside a VM" bit with the VMX, but that doesn't change the > license so probably wouldn't do you any good. Yeah. I'm kinda picky about licenses. So I'm stuck there. I _think_ the vendor is doing wacky stuff with the USB 'cause they say things like "_Always_ use the same physical USB port that you used when you installed the driver." Yup - for their application, using a different one can mess it up. > > > Of course there is also the fact that I no longer can find > > > all the program disks to reinstall the programs I have. > > > > Ah. That will be a problem no matter _what_ you do for a new > > computer. New hardware or new virtual machine will both need > > installers. > > Not necessarily, VMWare Converter (free) will convert an > existing machine into a VMWare image. I assume from that > point you could further convert to another image type. Oooh. That could save the day - but cloning forward a MSWin machine that is many years old? I fall back to my "fresh install" disk file every year or so 'cause the running copy gets squirrelly after a while. And it seems to be common to have to re-install the OS every so often. Another strong point about *nics. *smiles* -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
