Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Scott wrote:
> ...They build wealth, demand their children get educated, and send their 
> grandkids to Stanford.

I gotta see evidence for this concept.  I realize I have been fed the
same idiocy, but... I wonder.
I believe most immigrants of history had to come with some significant
coin.  Travel across the pond does not just happen.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

This is all interesting, but...  

Why is it that Arabs, Koreans, Vietnamese, Russians, Chinese, Eastern 
Europeans, etc. (not to mention Irish, Italians, Indians, Poles, and yes, 
Mexicans) , come to the US, often with little to no English language skills, 
and prosper.  They build wealth, demand their children get educated, and send 
their grandkids to Stanford.  This alchemy is seems absent in most of the 
world.   

I would speculate that the US was settled mainly by gamblers (including current 
immigrants) who are willing to give up the stagnation and security of the old 
country to take a chance with the unknown here.  To me, the discouraging thing 
is that this risk-taking attitude seems to be absent in so many  
third-plus-generation US-born millennials and young adults.  IMO, the new 
immigrants are going to eat their lunch.

Scott

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> Joel Cairo via Mercedes
> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 11:51 AM
> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Cc: Joel Cairo <buggeredbenzm...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans
> 
> That is an excellent description that is somewhat similar to what my niece
> explained, but more detail of the colonial mindset.  I can see that now.
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[G Mann via Mercedes]

I happen to have several business associates that are practicing lawyers,
and on occasion enter into legal discussions on hypothetical legal issues..

One particular spirited discussion was centered around Jury Selection.. The
hypothetical question was: Since a person is guaranteed speedy trial by a
"jury of his peers" .. does that not impart, in the case of a someone
charged as a serial killer, that his "peers" would be 12 serial killers...
and that by strict interpretation of the law.. only serial killers could
qualify for such jury duty?

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 11:53 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Jury selection would be OK if challenges were severely restricted.
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Well, it is important in the courts that we have juries and jurists who
> > "look like us" from what I can tell of the current agitators, so I think
> > you are onto something.
> >
> > Here in Charleston there are a coupla cases of white men allegedly
> > shooting black people, and the local people of color are demanding that
> the
> > juries are "representative" which is code for "has a lot of blacks on
> it."
> > I have no issue with juries reflecting the prevailing demographics per
> the
> > lawyers acceptance/rejection of various candidates, as it is done, but to
> > clamor for a stacked jury sends the message that black jury members can
> > somehow be better judges of guilt or innocence of (white) persons accused
> > of crimes against blacks, or blacks accused of crimes.  They have some
> > convoluted arguments in favor of that approach, that are fairly
> > incomprehensible.  I think a black judge was assigned to the shooter of
> 9,
> > for whatever that is worth.
> >
> > From what I have observed and have experienced, black folks have some
> > fairly unreconstructed views on white folks around here, and I will not
> > entirely dispute their reasons, as some whites have of blacks.  The
> problem
> > is that it gets injected into everything with no clear means of resolving
> > the issues, or sometimes even what the issue is. (Of particular note,
> some
> > of the local black agitation groups are upset at the school board for
> some
> > reasons I have not followed [though it could be any number of things, the
> > school board is completely incompetent and dysfunctional], and yesterday
> > they called for a boycott of car dealers by black folks.  Car dealers?
> > WTF?  No one can quite figure it out, and so far they have not
> enlightened
> > us on their reasoning.)
> >
> > --JC
> >
> >
> > On 6/8/16 2:27 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> >
> >> Well, I guess the only judge who could even remotely be "fair" to Trump
> is
> >> a wasp billionaire.
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 2:04 PM, G Mann via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Interesting line of thought..
> >>>
> >>> The word "Mexican" is a word devised by the Castilian Spanish "pure
> >>> breds"
> >>> that conquered the Native Lands now called "Mexico".
> >>>
> >>> These pure bred Spaniards came with their weapons, soldiers, and a
> Royal
> >>> Edict from the King of Spain, to grab all the gold and silver for
> Spain,
> >>> but they came with no women.. So..
> >>>
> >>> They took local indian women to fill their needs.. which produced 1/2
> >>> breed
> >>> children... which the Pure Spanish looked down upon.. they were
> "bastard
> >>> 1/2 breeds" and they invented the derisive term "Mexican" which in it's
> >>> day
> >>> held the same connotation as the now much reviled "N" word in USA..
> >>>
> >>> It did then,,  and it does now, to the ruling class of "pure Spanish"
> in
> >>> Mexico define a "lower class of person" not worthy of land ownership,
> or
> >>> wealth..
> >>>
> >>> Just a bit of history to chew on.. since, calling someone "Mexican" is
> >>> actually "racist" by original intent..
> >>>
> >>> <
> >>>
> >>>
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-a
> >>> Virus-free.
> >>> www.avast.com
> >>> <
> >>>
> >>>
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-a
> >>> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes <
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> This whole "race" thing in regards to Mexicans or others from SOTB is
>  kinda interesting.  For example, a friend of mine is married to a
> woman
>  whose family are Mexican-(US)American but are Irish/mestizo, she has
> an
>  Irish surname, some ancestors having settled in Mexico at some point
> and
>  spoke Spanish.  So she is mostly a white European (Irish) but of the
>  "Mexican" (country of origin) "race."  Now she is an ultra-lib, so is
>  easily offended by things like this, but as far as "race" she is
> pretty
>  much as 

Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Jury selection would be OK if challenges were severely restricted.

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Well, it is important in the courts that we have juries and jurists who
> "look like us" from what I can tell of the current agitators, so I think
> you are onto something.
>
> Here in Charleston there are a coupla cases of white men allegedly
> shooting black people, and the local people of color are demanding that the
> juries are "representative" which is code for "has a lot of blacks on it."
> I have no issue with juries reflecting the prevailing demographics per the
> lawyers acceptance/rejection of various candidates, as it is done, but to
> clamor for a stacked jury sends the message that black jury members can
> somehow be better judges of guilt or innocence of (white) persons accused
> of crimes against blacks, or blacks accused of crimes.  They have some
> convoluted arguments in favor of that approach, that are fairly
> incomprehensible.  I think a black judge was assigned to the shooter of 9,
> for whatever that is worth.
>
> From what I have observed and have experienced, black folks have some
> fairly unreconstructed views on white folks around here, and I will not
> entirely dispute their reasons, as some whites have of blacks.  The problem
> is that it gets injected into everything with no clear means of resolving
> the issues, or sometimes even what the issue is. (Of particular note, some
> of the local black agitation groups are upset at the school board for some
> reasons I have not followed [though it could be any number of things, the
> school board is completely incompetent and dysfunctional], and yesterday
> they called for a boycott of car dealers by black folks.  Car dealers?
> WTF?  No one can quite figure it out, and so far they have not enlightened
> us on their reasoning.)
>
> --JC
>
>
> On 6/8/16 2:27 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> Well, I guess the only judge who could even remotely be "fair" to Trump is
>> a wasp billionaire.
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 2:04 PM, G Mann via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Interesting line of thought..
>>>
>>> The word "Mexican" is a word devised by the Castilian Spanish "pure
>>> breds"
>>> that conquered the Native Lands now called "Mexico".
>>>
>>> These pure bred Spaniards came with their weapons, soldiers, and a Royal
>>> Edict from the King of Spain, to grab all the gold and silver for Spain,
>>> but they came with no women.. So..
>>>
>>> They took local indian women to fill their needs.. which produced 1/2
>>> breed
>>> children... which the Pure Spanish looked down upon.. they were "bastard
>>> 1/2 breeds" and they invented the derisive term "Mexican" which in it's
>>> day
>>> held the same connotation as the now much reviled "N" word in USA..
>>>
>>> It did then,,  and it does now, to the ruling class of "pure Spanish" in
>>> Mexico define a "lower class of person" not worthy of land ownership, or
>>> wealth..
>>>
>>> Just a bit of history to chew on.. since, calling someone "Mexican" is
>>> actually "racist" by original intent..
>>>
>>> <
>>>
>>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-a
>>> Virus-free.
>>> www.avast.com
>>> <
>>>
>>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-a
>>> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> This whole "race" thing in regards to Mexicans or others from SOTB is
 kinda interesting.  For example, a friend of mine is married to a woman
 whose family are Mexican-(US)American but are Irish/mestizo, she has an
 Irish surname, some ancestors having settled in Mexico at some point and
 spoke Spanish.  So she is mostly a white European (Irish) but of the
 "Mexican" (country of origin) "race."  Now she is an ultra-lib, so is
 easily offended by things like this, but as far as "race" she is pretty
 much as white as I am (though I have more Cherokee than Lieawatha
 Warren)
 and I am your prototype white boy.  Now a lot of people SOTB are almost
 pure pre-European-invader indigenos, they look like Mayans and Aztecs
 and
 whatnot, or at least not like the European invaders, so I guess they

>>> would
>>>
 be a definite "race".  But a lot of people SOTB are mixed mestizo so
 unclear what "race" they are, they are just sorta browner in varying

>>> shades
>>>
 but not all of them, so they might be "of color."

 It all confuses me.

 --JC

 On 6/8/16 1:24 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

 LSM [Lame Stream Media] has made this a "race issue" because it serves
> their masters.. It ain't true.
>
> Here is the issue that Trump actually raised.
> 1. The Judge is a member of a 

Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes]

Apparently the judge in question is a member of a couple of radical racist
organizations himself, including California La Raza Lawyers Association and
another that has expressed antipathy to Rs.

Analysis I have read indicates that none of the decisions made by Curiel in
the Trump case are outside of the range of those a reasonable judge would
make.

Yet, how would a latino react to a judge who was a member of an organization
called the "White Race Association"?

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Joel
Cairo via Mercedes
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 6:52 AM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: Joel Cairo
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

Speaking of Mexicans, I note that The Don is being called a "racist" for 
his comments about a judge of Mexican heritage and some lawsuit or 
other.  I did not realize there was a Mexican race, other than the Baja 
races.

--JC

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

Well, it is important in the courts that we have juries and jurists who 
"look like us" from what I can tell of the current agitators, so I think 
you are onto something.


Here in Charleston there are a coupla cases of white men allegedly 
shooting black people, and the local people of color are demanding that 
the juries are "representative" which is code for "has a lot of blacks 
on it."  I have no issue with juries reflecting the prevailing 
demographics per the lawyers acceptance/rejection of various candidates, 
as it is done, but to clamor for a stacked jury sends the message that 
black jury members can somehow be better judges of guilt or innocence of 
(white) persons accused of crimes against blacks, or blacks accused of 
crimes.  They have some convoluted arguments in favor of that approach, 
that are fairly incomprehensible.  I think a black judge was assigned to 
the shooter of 9, for whatever that is worth.


From what I have observed and have experienced, black folks have some 
fairly unreconstructed views on white folks around here, and I will not 
entirely dispute their reasons, as some whites have of blacks.  The 
problem is that it gets injected into everything with no clear means of 
resolving the issues, or sometimes even what the issue is. (Of 
particular note, some of the local black agitation groups are upset at 
the school board for some reasons I have not followed [though it could 
be any number of things, the school board is completely incompetent and 
dysfunctional], and yesterday they called for a boycott of car dealers 
by black folks.  Car dealers?  WTF?  No one can quite figure it out, and 
so far they have not enlightened us on their reasoning.)


--JC


On 6/8/16 2:27 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

Well, I guess the only judge who could even remotely be "fair" to Trump is
a wasp billionaire.

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 2:04 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
wrote:


Interesting line of thought..

The word "Mexican" is a word devised by the Castilian Spanish "pure breds"
that conquered the Native Lands now called "Mexico".

These pure bred Spaniards came with their weapons, soldiers, and a Royal
Edict from the King of Spain, to grab all the gold and silver for Spain,
but they came with no women.. So..

They took local indian women to fill their needs.. which produced 1/2 breed
children... which the Pure Spanish looked down upon.. they were "bastard
1/2 breeds" and they invented the derisive term "Mexican" which in it's day
held the same connotation as the now much reviled "N" word in USA..

It did then,,  and it does now, to the ruling class of "pure Spanish" in
Mexico define a "lower class of person" not worthy of land ownership, or
wealth..

Just a bit of history to chew on.. since, calling someone "Mexican" is
actually "racist" by original intent..

<
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-a
Virus-free.
www.avast.com
<
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-a
<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


This whole "race" thing in regards to Mexicans or others from SOTB is
kinda interesting.  For example, a friend of mine is married to a woman
whose family are Mexican-(US)American but are Irish/mestizo, she has an
Irish surname, some ancestors having settled in Mexico at some point and
spoke Spanish.  So she is mostly a white European (Irish) but of the
"Mexican" (country of origin) "race."  Now she is an ultra-lib, so is
easily offended by things like this, but as far as "race" she is pretty
much as white as I am (though I have more Cherokee than Lieawatha Warren)
and I am your prototype white boy.  Now a lot of people SOTB are almost
pure pre-European-invader indigenos, they look like Mayans and Aztecs and
whatnot, or at least not like the European invaders, so I guess they

would

be a definite "race".  But a lot of people SOTB are mixed mestizo so
unclear what "race" they are, they are just sorta browner in varying

shades

but not all of them, so they might be "of color."

It all confuses me.

--JC

On 6/8/16 1:24 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:


LSM [Lame Stream Media] has made this a "race issue" because it serves
their masters.. It ain't true.

Here is the issue that Trump actually raised.
1. The Judge is a member of a group of lawyers in California that

advocate

for and represent, La Raza, [translation "The Race"] which is a
politically
militant Latino group that has declared Mr. Trump their sworn enemy
because
of his vocal stand against ILLEGAL entry into the USA.

2. By the Federal Rules of Court, and ALL 50 State Rules of Court, AND

the

National Bar Association and ALL 50 State Bar Associations Rules of
Ethics,
a Judge or a Lawyer who has ANY association with anyone that could be
construed as a Conflict of 

Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Well, I guess the only judge who could even remotely be "fair" to Trump is
a wasp billionaire.

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 2:04 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
wrote:

> Interesting line of thought..
>
> The word "Mexican" is a word devised by the Castilian Spanish "pure breds"
> that conquered the Native Lands now called "Mexico".
>
> These pure bred Spaniards came with their weapons, soldiers, and a Royal
> Edict from the King of Spain, to grab all the gold and silver for Spain,
> but they came with no women.. So..
>
> They took local indian women to fill their needs.. which produced 1/2 breed
> children... which the Pure Spanish looked down upon.. they were "bastard
> 1/2 breeds" and they invented the derisive term "Mexican" which in it's day
> held the same connotation as the now much reviled "N" word in USA..
>
> It did then,,  and it does now, to the ruling class of "pure Spanish" in
> Mexico define a "lower class of person" not worthy of land ownership, or
> wealth..
>
> Just a bit of history to chew on.. since, calling someone "Mexican" is
> actually "racist" by original intent..
>
> <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-a
> >
> Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-a
> >
> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > This whole "race" thing in regards to Mexicans or others from SOTB is
> > kinda interesting.  For example, a friend of mine is married to a woman
> > whose family are Mexican-(US)American but are Irish/mestizo, she has an
> > Irish surname, some ancestors having settled in Mexico at some point and
> > spoke Spanish.  So she is mostly a white European (Irish) but of the
> > "Mexican" (country of origin) "race."  Now she is an ultra-lib, so is
> > easily offended by things like this, but as far as "race" she is pretty
> > much as white as I am (though I have more Cherokee than Lieawatha Warren)
> > and I am your prototype white boy.  Now a lot of people SOTB are almost
> > pure pre-European-invader indigenos, they look like Mayans and Aztecs and
> > whatnot, or at least not like the European invaders, so I guess they
> would
> > be a definite "race".  But a lot of people SOTB are mixed mestizo so
> > unclear what "race" they are, they are just sorta browner in varying
> shades
> > but not all of them, so they might be "of color."
> >
> > It all confuses me.
> >
> > --JC
> >
> > On 6/8/16 1:24 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
> >
> >> LSM [Lame Stream Media] has made this a "race issue" because it serves
> >> their masters.. It ain't true.
> >>
> >> Here is the issue that Trump actually raised.
> >> 1. The Judge is a member of a group of lawyers in California that
> advocate
> >> for and represent, La Raza, [translation "The Race"] which is a
> >> politically
> >> militant Latino group that has declared Mr. Trump their sworn enemy
> >> because
> >> of his vocal stand against ILLEGAL entry into the USA.
> >>
> >> 2. By the Federal Rules of Court, and ALL 50 State Rules of Court, AND
> the
> >> National Bar Association and ALL 50 State Bar Associations Rules of
> >> Ethics,
> >> a Judge or a Lawyer who has ANY association with anyone that could be
> >> construed as a Conflict of Interest, MUST Recuse themselves. and as a
> >> Judge, is barred from hearing that case.
> >>
> >> 3. This Judge [also a Lawyer] has breached those Rules of Court, and the
> >> Bar Association Rules of Ethics by setting on the bench in this case.
> >>
> >> 4. Mr. Trump, called him out on that breach of the rules.. and by the
> >> Judges OWN rules .. he could be dis-barred from practicing law... AND
> >> removed as a Judge.. or have sanctions against him...
> >>
> >> Nothing racial about that.. except in the case of the Judge's
> >> affiliations..
> >>
> >> So, again.. Trump is right.. and it's "Always Good to be Right".;))
> >>
> >> <
> >>
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-a
> >> >
> >> Virus-free.
> >> www.avast.com
> >> <
> >>
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-a
> >> >
> >> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 6:51 AM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Speaking of Mexicans, I note that The Don is being called a "racist" for
> >>> his comments about a judge of Mexican heritage and some lawsuit or
> other.
> >>> I did not realize there was a Mexican race, other than the Baja races.
> >>>
> >>> --JC
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:

Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Interesting line of thought..

The word "Mexican" is a word devised by the Castilian Spanish "pure breds"
that conquered the Native Lands now called "Mexico".

These pure bred Spaniards came with their weapons, soldiers, and a Royal
Edict from the King of Spain, to grab all the gold and silver for Spain,
but they came with no women.. So..

They took local indian women to fill their needs.. which produced 1/2 breed
children... which the Pure Spanish looked down upon.. they were "bastard
1/2 breeds" and they invented the derisive term "Mexican" which in it's day
held the same connotation as the now much reviled "N" word in USA..

It did then,,  and it does now, to the ruling class of "pure Spanish" in
Mexico define a "lower class of person" not worthy of land ownership, or
wealth..

Just a bit of history to chew on.. since, calling someone "Mexican" is
actually "racist" by original intent..


Virus-free.
www.avast.com

<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> This whole "race" thing in regards to Mexicans or others from SOTB is
> kinda interesting.  For example, a friend of mine is married to a woman
> whose family are Mexican-(US)American but are Irish/mestizo, she has an
> Irish surname, some ancestors having settled in Mexico at some point and
> spoke Spanish.  So she is mostly a white European (Irish) but of the
> "Mexican" (country of origin) "race."  Now she is an ultra-lib, so is
> easily offended by things like this, but as far as "race" she is pretty
> much as white as I am (though I have more Cherokee than Lieawatha Warren)
> and I am your prototype white boy.  Now a lot of people SOTB are almost
> pure pre-European-invader indigenos, they look like Mayans and Aztecs and
> whatnot, or at least not like the European invaders, so I guess they would
> be a definite "race".  But a lot of people SOTB are mixed mestizo so
> unclear what "race" they are, they are just sorta browner in varying shades
> but not all of them, so they might be "of color."
>
> It all confuses me.
>
> --JC
>
> On 6/8/16 1:24 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> LSM [Lame Stream Media] has made this a "race issue" because it serves
>> their masters.. It ain't true.
>>
>> Here is the issue that Trump actually raised.
>> 1. The Judge is a member of a group of lawyers in California that advocate
>> for and represent, La Raza, [translation "The Race"] which is a
>> politically
>> militant Latino group that has declared Mr. Trump their sworn enemy
>> because
>> of his vocal stand against ILLEGAL entry into the USA.
>>
>> 2. By the Federal Rules of Court, and ALL 50 State Rules of Court, AND the
>> National Bar Association and ALL 50 State Bar Associations Rules of
>> Ethics,
>> a Judge or a Lawyer who has ANY association with anyone that could be
>> construed as a Conflict of Interest, MUST Recuse themselves. and as a
>> Judge, is barred from hearing that case.
>>
>> 3. This Judge [also a Lawyer] has breached those Rules of Court, and the
>> Bar Association Rules of Ethics by setting on the bench in this case.
>>
>> 4. Mr. Trump, called him out on that breach of the rules.. and by the
>> Judges OWN rules .. he could be dis-barred from practicing law... AND
>> removed as a Judge.. or have sanctions against him...
>>
>> Nothing racial about that.. except in the case of the Judge's
>> affiliations..
>>
>> So, again.. Trump is right.. and it's "Always Good to be Right".;))
>>
>> <
>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-a
>> >
>> Virus-free.
>> www.avast.com
>> <
>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=oa-2322-a
>> >
>> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 6:51 AM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> Speaking of Mexicans, I note that The Don is being called a "racist" for
>>> his comments about a judge of Mexican heritage and some lawsuit or other.
>>> I did not realize there was a Mexican race, other than the Baja races.
>>>
>>> --JC
>>>
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
> --
> --BB
>
>
> ___
> 

Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

This whole "race" thing in regards to Mexicans or others from SOTB is 
kinda interesting.  For example, a friend of mine is married to a woman 
whose family are Mexican-(US)American but are Irish/mestizo, she has an 
Irish surname, some ancestors having settled in Mexico at some point and 
spoke Spanish.  So she is mostly a white European (Irish) but of the  
"Mexican" (country of origin) "race."  Now she is an ultra-lib, so is 
easily offended by things like this, but as far as "race" she is pretty 
much as white as I am (though I have more Cherokee than Lieawatha 
Warren) and I am your prototype white boy.  Now a lot of people SOTB are 
almost pure pre-European-invader indigenos, they look like Mayans and 
Aztecs and whatnot, or at least not like the European invaders, so I 
guess they would be a definite "race".  But a lot of people SOTB are 
mixed mestizo so unclear what "race" they are, they are just sorta 
browner in varying shades but not all of them, so they might be "of color."


It all confuses me.

--JC

On 6/8/16 1:24 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

LSM [Lame Stream Media] has made this a "race issue" because it serves
their masters.. It ain't true.

Here is the issue that Trump actually raised.
1. The Judge is a member of a group of lawyers in California that advocate
for and represent, La Raza, [translation "The Race"] which is a politically
militant Latino group that has declared Mr. Trump their sworn enemy because
of his vocal stand against ILLEGAL entry into the USA.

2. By the Federal Rules of Court, and ALL 50 State Rules of Court, AND the
National Bar Association and ALL 50 State Bar Associations Rules of Ethics,
a Judge or a Lawyer who has ANY association with anyone that could be
construed as a Conflict of Interest, MUST Recuse themselves. and as a
Judge, is barred from hearing that case.

3. This Judge [also a Lawyer] has breached those Rules of Court, and the
Bar Association Rules of Ethics by setting on the bench in this case.

4. Mr. Trump, called him out on that breach of the rules.. and by the
Judges OWN rules .. he could be dis-barred from practicing law... AND
removed as a Judge.. or have sanctions against him...

Nothing racial about that.. except in the case of the Judge's
affiliations..

So, again.. Trump is right.. and it's "Always Good to be Right".;))


Virus-free.
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<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 6:51 AM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Speaking of Mexicans, I note that The Don is being called a "racist" for
his comments about a judge of Mexican heritage and some lawsuit or other.
I did not realize there was a Mexican race, other than the Baja races.

--JC

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[G Mann via Mercedes]

LSM [Lame Stream Media] has made this a "race issue" because it serves
their masters.. It ain't true.

Here is the issue that Trump actually raised.
1. The Judge is a member of a group of lawyers in California that advocate
for and represent, La Raza, [translation "The Race"] which is a politically
militant Latino group that has declared Mr. Trump their sworn enemy because
of his vocal stand against ILLEGAL entry into the USA.

2. By the Federal Rules of Court, and ALL 50 State Rules of Court, AND the
National Bar Association and ALL 50 State Bar Associations Rules of Ethics,
a Judge or a Lawyer who has ANY association with anyone that could be
construed as a Conflict of Interest, MUST Recuse themselves. and as a
Judge, is barred from hearing that case.

3. This Judge [also a Lawyer] has breached those Rules of Court, and the
Bar Association Rules of Ethics by setting on the bench in this case.

4. Mr. Trump, called him out on that breach of the rules.. and by the
Judges OWN rules .. he could be dis-barred from practicing law... AND
removed as a Judge.. or have sanctions against him...

Nothing racial about that.. except in the case of the Judge's
affiliations..

So, again.. Trump is right.. and it's "Always Good to be Right".;))


Virus-free.
www.avast.com

<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 6:51 AM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Speaking of Mexicans, I note that The Don is being called a "racist" for
> his comments about a judge of Mexican heritage and some lawsuit or other.
> I did not realize there was a Mexican race, other than the Baja races.
>
> --JC
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Has there ever been anything good said about Trump University? Is anybody other 
than Trump defending it?I don't pay attention to that much media, just 
checking...
-Curt

  From: Joel Cairo via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Cc: Joel Cairo <buggeredbenzm...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 12:39 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans
   
Yeah apparently that stuff is coming out, that the judge is somehow 
associated with La Raza ("The Race") which itself seems to be razaist.  
But that doesn't matter because The Don is a Repub (or so he says) so he 
is automatically a razaist for even pointing that out.  The Don should 
start a group called La Blancos or maybe even La Color Naranjas

--JC


On 6/8/16 12:27 PM, rogerhga--- via Mercedes wrote:
> IF you look at the judge and look at the interview Trump did, it's not stupid 
> at all. Some may not like it, but that's up to each...some people still think 
> Hillary is honest and that is really stupid. Anyway, I don't care about the 
> generation, look at the judge's association with the La Raza law firm and 
> it's work and connections. Similar to the "protesters" that Soros and his 
> crew hired to "protest" Trump's rally. Judges are people FIRST...and if 
> you've noticed, federal judges tend to think they are gods and can do 
> anything. Again, everyone is allowed to have their own opinion.
> Best Wishes,
> Roger
> Roger Hale
> Dinnerware Classics, Inc.
> Monroe, Ga.
> 770-267-0850
> www.dinnerwareclassics.com
>
>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

Yeah apparently that stuff is coming out, that the judge is somehow 
associated with La Raza ("The Race") which itself seems to be razaist.  
But that doesn't matter because The Don is a Repub (or so he says) so he 
is automatically a razaist for even pointing that out.  The Don should 
start a group called La Blancos or maybe even La Color Naranjas


--JC


On 6/8/16 12:27 PM, rogerhga--- via Mercedes wrote:

IF you look at the judge and look at the interview Trump did, it's not stupid at all. Some may not 
like it, but that's up to each...some people still think Hillary is honest and that is really 
stupid. Anyway, I don't care about the generation, look at the judge's association with the La Raza 
law firm and it's work and connections. Similar to the "protesters" that Soros and his 
crew hired to "protest" Trump's rally. Judges are people FIRST...and if you've noticed, 
federal judges tend to think they are gods and can do anything. Again, everyone is allowed to have 
their own opinion.
Best Wishes,
Roger
Roger Hale
Dinnerware Classics, Inc.
Monroe, Ga.
770-267-0850
www.dinnerwareclassics.com


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[rogerhga--- via Mercedes]

IF you look at the judge and look at the interview Trump did, it's not stupid 
at all. Some may not like it, but that's up to each...some people still think 
Hillary is honest and that is really stupid. Anyway, I don't care about the 
generation, look at the judge's association with the La Raza law firm and it's 
work and connections. Similar to the "protesters" that Soros and his crew hired 
to "protest" Trump's rally. Judges are people FIRST...and if you've noticed, 
federal judges tend to think they are gods and can do anything. Again, everyone 
is allowed to have their own opinion. 
Best Wishes, 
Roger 
Roger Hale 
Dinnerware Classics, Inc. 
Monroe, Ga. 
770-267-0850 
www.dinnerwareclassics.com 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

The "R" term only applies if you are NOT a blind follower of the 
pillory, the burn, or any number of other *-ist pols.  it has nothing to 
do with race, it only applies if you are not a dedicated follower.  the 
"D" pols are never branded with the "R" term.  in the same manner the 
"N" term can  be used without concern by pillory, the burn, or any 
number of other *-ist pols and their blind followers.  If anyone uses 
the "N" term, even if quoting someone licensed to use it, they are 
immediately branded with the "R" term.


But the media will be fast to tell you they are "just reporting" and 
have NO bias.


Just reporting life as it is, Sir!


Joel Cairo via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 8, 2016 at 8:51 AMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>
Speaking of Mexicans, I note that The Don is being called a "racist" 
for his comments about a judge of Mexican heritage and some lawsuit or 
other.  I did not realize there was a Mexican race, other than the 
Baja races.


--JC

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Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 8, 2016 at 12:38 AMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>

The "pursuit of happiness" in the Declaration started out as "property" but
got changed during the staffing process, allegedly to avoid interpretation
as supporting slavery.


-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
Max Dillon via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 5:10 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List<mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Max Dillon<dillonm...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

Yes!  Individual ownership of property is one of the key factors that has

made

America (the U. S. part) very wealthy compared to the rest of the world.

The foundation of all wealth is land; free citizens who can create as much
wealth as they like with their land and the fruits of their labor will

make ANY

country wealthy.

Taxes and regulations that infringe on that land and labor will decrease
wealth.
--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On June 7, 2016 1:08:56 PM EDT, Mountain Man via Mercedes
<mercedes@okiebenz.com>  wrote:

--R wrote:

...not that it really mattered whether it was his or theirs.

Does it really matter for USAmericans?

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Max Dillon via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 7, 2016 at 4:09 PMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>
Yes! Individual ownership of property is one of the key factors that 
has made America (the U. S. part) very wealthy compared to the rest of 
the world.


The foundation of all wealth is land; free citizens who can create as 
much wealth as they like with their land and the fruits of their labor 
will make ANY country wealthy.


Taxes and regulations that infringe on that land and labor will 
decrease wealth.

Mountain Man via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 7, 2016 at 12:08 PMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>


Does it really matter for USAmericans? Do we exist better because we
really think it is our land?
We think it is our land, or maybe we don't? taxes, rent, mortgage
interest, etc.
We think we have representative government that is better than the
Spain related system Grant explained. Perhaps we still have the same
structure of overlord (despised concept) as south-of-the-border
countries (Grant explanation). We live better, or, do we? I bet we
could carry this OT further... except for cynicism, of course.
mao

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Joel Cairo via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
June 7, 2016 at 10:50 AMvia Postbox 
<https://www.postbox-inc.com/?utm_source=email_medium=sumlink_campaign=reach>
That is an excellent description that is somewhat similar to what my 
niece e

Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

The guy is second generation, born in Indiana. Trump's suggestion was pretty 
dumb but I agree, nationality and religion are often confused with race.
-Curt

  From: Joel Cairo via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Cc: Joel Cairo <buggeredbenzm...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 9:51 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans
   
Speaking of Mexicans, I note that The Don is being called a "racist" for 
his comments about a judge of Mexican heritage and some lawsuit or 
other.  I did not realize there was a Mexican race, other than the Baja 
races.

--JC

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

Speaking of Mexicans, I note that The Don is being called a "racist" for 
his comments about a judge of Mexican heritage and some lawsuit or 
other.  I did not realize there was a Mexican race, other than the Baja 
races.


--JC

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

The "pursuit of happiness" in the Declaration started out as "property" but
got changed during the staffing process, allegedly to avoid interpretation
as supporting slavery.

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> Max Dillon via Mercedes
> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 5:10 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: Max Dillon <dillonm...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans
> 
> Yes!  Individual ownership of property is one of the key factors that has
made
> America (the U. S. part) very wealthy compared to the rest of the world.
> 
> The foundation of all wealth is land; free citizens who can create as much
> wealth as they like with their land and the fruits of their labor will
make ANY
> country wealthy.
> 
> Taxes and regulations that infringe on that land and labor will decrease
> wealth.
> --
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
> 
> On June 7, 2016 1:08:56 PM EDT, Mountain Man via Mercedes
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >--R wrote:
> >> ...not that it really mattered whether it was his or theirs.
> >
> >Does it really matter for USAmericans?
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Yes!  Individual ownership of property is one of the key factors that has made 
America (the U. S. part) very wealthy compared to the rest of the world.

The foundation of all wealth is land; free citizens who can create as much 
wealth as they like with their land and the fruits of their labor will make ANY 
country wealthy.

Taxes and regulations that infringe on that land and labor will decrease wealth.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On June 7, 2016 1:08:56 PM EDT, Mountain Man via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>--R wrote:
>> ...not that it really mattered whether it was his or theirs.
>
>Does it really matter for USAmericans?  

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

--R wrote:
> ...not that it really mattered whether it was his or theirs.

Does it really matter for USAmericans?  Do we exist better because we
really think it is our land?
We think it is our land, or maybe we don't?  taxes, rent, mortgage
interest, etc.
We think we have representative government that is better than the
Spain related system Grant explained.  Perhaps we still have the same
structure of overlord (despised concept) as south-of-the-border
countries (Grant explanation).  We live better, or, do we?  I bet we
could carry this OT further... except for cynicism, of course.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

That is an excellent description that is somewhat similar to what my 
niece explained, but more detail of the colonial mindset.  I can see 
that now.


We were in Costa Rica 3 or 4 years ago, we stayed a night at a nice 
little hotel compound not far from the airport as we had an early flight 
out the next morning.  We were having supper at their dining facility, 
out on the patio, and get talking to an older single guy at the table 
next to us.  He was a USAmerican, had lived in CR for some years, had a 
little finca on the east coast with a local family as the all-around 
caretakers, etc.  He had built them a little house for which they were 
most appreciative. At some point he gave them a coupla acres of his 10 
or 12, around the house for them to do their garden and animals and 
whatnot.  No big deal to him, they were still there, the land was still 
contiguous, he had plenty enough with the remainder, not that it really 
mattered whether it was his or theirs.  Anyway, he said these people 
were incredibly grateful and would do anything for him, they treated him 
almost as a god, which he found a bit uncomfortable but understood that 
what he had done was to give them something that they never imagined 
could happen.  He said that he had put the rest of the place in his will 
for them as his kids had no interest in it, so he figured that could 
propel them into another stage of land ownership, farming production, 
whatever.  I had not realized until then that land ownership for many 
people, even in CR which is pretty well developed politically, 
comparatively, was such a huge deal.


Our guide in Peru was telling us about his parents' farm.  We drove 
pretty close by when we were on the way from Cusco to where our trek 
started, it was in a beautiful area, a valley in the mountains, and he 
pointed out to us where it was.  It had been in the family for pretty 
much forever.  His parents had moved to Cusco some years ago as had most 
of the family, but they still went back for holidays and vacations.  The 
thing that distressed him was that there was no title to the land, it 
was just "known" to everyone that it belonged to his family as it had 
for ever how long.  But since they were not living there, the neighbors 
had begun to encroach on the property, taking a small field here and 
there, and there was not much to be done to stop it without being there 
to fight them off.  I thought that was quite interesting.


--R


On 6/7/16 11:25 AM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

Having spent much of my adult life traveling the world, with significant
portion of that into SA, I'll throw in my 0.02 cents worth.

All countries south of USA, Mexico included, are at their cultural
foundation, based on the Spanish rule model.

That Government model dictates there be an "Al Cald`e" who is all powerful
representing the direct wishes of the King of Spain. All others are
citizens of a lower class who must ask permission for everything.
This cultural pattern is ingrained into the people so deeply, even 3'd and
4'th generation latin americans who have lived in USA and were born here
still are not "self responsible" in a practical sense, compared to other
"Native Born Americans".  They still look to leadership for every decision,
rather than the American Citizen idea of "Self Rule".

Couple that with the law form used in all South American countries which is
based on Napoleonic Code rather than British Common Law Code. and you have
a continuation of the idea that "only rulers can made decisions" not
"empowered citizens".

This translates in the SA real world into things like land ownership, for
example.. The ruling class owns land and property.. everyone else works for
them.. generally speaking.. [there have been revolts in Mexico, for
example, which resulted in "private ownership of land" by peons.. but in
general principle.. the ruling class still "rules".

This cultural principle rules South America, while USA is all about the
individual Citizen having Rights.. which can't be infringed..

Well. in theory, at least.. recent regulations excepted.. IRS, EPA, et
al...


Virus-free

<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 5:17 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Peru is not such a bad place relative to other SA countries.  The elder
Fujimori, while not the most up front "president" was definitely better
than your average SA dictator/despot.

He did a lot for social causes and really went after the Shining Path
(Maoist rebels) that terrorized the rural areas.  I got to meet him once
when a business associate I traveled SA with regularly arranged the
donation of some medical equipment to a rural hospital. We attended a state
dinner where the President honored 

Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Having spent much of my adult life traveling the world, with significant
portion of that into SA, I'll throw in my 0.02 cents worth.

All countries south of USA, Mexico included, are at their cultural
foundation, based on the Spanish rule model.

That Government model dictates there be an "Al Cald`e" who is all powerful
representing the direct wishes of the King of Spain. All others are
citizens of a lower class who must ask permission for everything.
This cultural pattern is ingrained into the people so deeply, even 3'd and
4'th generation latin americans who have lived in USA and were born here
still are not "self responsible" in a practical sense, compared to other
"Native Born Americans".  They still look to leadership for every decision,
rather than the American Citizen idea of "Self Rule".

Couple that with the law form used in all South American countries which is
based on Napoleonic Code rather than British Common Law Code. and you have
a continuation of the idea that "only rulers can made decisions" not
"empowered citizens".

This translates in the SA real world into things like land ownership, for
example.. The ruling class owns land and property.. everyone else works for
them.. generally speaking.. [there have been revolts in Mexico, for
example, which resulted in "private ownership of land" by peons.. but in
general principle.. the ruling class still "rules".

This cultural principle rules South America, while USA is all about the
individual Citizen having Rights.. which can't be infringed..

Well. in theory, at least.. recent regulations excepted.. IRS, EPA, et
al...


Virus-free

<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 5:17 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Peru is not such a bad place relative to other SA countries.  The elder
> Fujimori, while not the most up front "president" was definitely better
> than your average SA dictator/despot.
>
> He did a lot for social causes and really went after the Shining Path
> (Maoist rebels) that terrorized the rural areas.  I got to meet him once
> when a business associate I traveled SA with regularly arranged the
> donation of some medical equipment to a rural hospital. We attended a state
> dinner where the President honored a bunch of people who supported local
> charities.  My buddy was a Peruaño and did a lot of logistical work for
> some charities in Milwaukee who supported rural medical care in Peru.
>
> Peru has a large number of Asians, much like Panama does. Not sure why,
> but the Asian community there was pretty significant from what I saw. In
> big cities like Lima it was pretty safe for Anglos, but if you got out into
> the rural areas you had a target on your back. The locals had no problems
> and were actually pretty cool (indigenous folks with the cool bowler hats
> and serapés) and neat to hang with, but the Shining Path guys were totally
> psycho and would kill foreigners without so much as a by your leave.  As a
> result it wasn't a good idea to go wandering around the countryside unless
> you were with a local.  The State Department pretty much said you were on
> your own if you left the city.
>
> Peru was a cool place to visit, and I always enjoyed my trips there. It
> helped that my buddy was a local, as he was able to navigate for us and
> knew his way around.  I'm not sure I would feel safe going there as a
> tourista.
>
> Dan
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Jun 6, 2016, at 5:52 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > I asked my niece that question in reference to SA countries, but Mexico
> is similar enough.  She was the resident expert on certain political and
> economic matters in a certain SA country for A Government Agency, so was
> probably as knowledgeable about such things as anyone could be.  She has a
> degree from Georgetown in International Relations, and a fair amount of
> training.  She has briefed presidents directly/personally on these matters.
> >
> > She thought about it a bit and attributed it to the effects of
> colonialism, in that the ruling classes of most LA countries are the
> descendants of the yurpeens, the Spanish specifically, and mostly
> white/mestizo not native and their attitudes towards the indigenos is not
> wildly different from colonial times 500 years ago.  That sorta made sense
> -- they have their status and wealth and really don't care that much about
> the rest.  In places where indigenos do get elected (I think Hugo in
> Venezuela and the guy in Bolivia?) they tend to go overboard the other way
> with the predictable results -- it gets even worse.
> >
> > Interestingly, we were just in Peru and the electioneering was going big
> time for the election yesterday.  They started out with 

Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans now Peruvians

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

When we did the Machu Picchu tre 13 yr ago our guide was telling us that 
the Shining Path were still somewhat active in the mountains but that 
the Inca trail we were on was fairly safe. Some years prior the traffic 
had dropped considerably as they were around.  I guess that was 
comforting though being way back in the mountains not too close to 
"civilization" was somewhat concerning in that regard.  We went at that 
time to Puerto Maldonado in the forest, headwaters of the Amazon, and it 
was the Wild West out there.  They have a road built out there now so it 
has become somewhat more "civilized" for what that is worth, but our 
guide this time was saying there are some SPs still running around out 
there too but they are not much of a factor.


The election is still undecided, this morning the gap was 50k votes out 
of millions, they are counting absentees.  Both candidates seem like 
they would be somewhat similar, though the Fujimori woman has been much 
more visible out in the countryside, visiting little towns and people 
all over so she is something of a populist.  PPK is a bit more of an 
elite, but a smart guy, both have US educations and are pretty smart.  I 
hope it works out for them, they seem to be on the right path.


--R


On 6/7/16 8:17 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

Peru is not such a bad place relative to other SA countries.  The elder Fujimori, while 
not the most up front "president" was definitely better than your average SA 
dictator/despot.

He did a lot for social causes and really went after the Shining Path (Maoist 
rebels) that terrorized the rural areas.  I got to meet him once when a 
business associate I traveled SA with regularly arranged the donation of some 
medical equipment to a rural hospital. We attended a state dinner where the 
President honored a bunch of people who supported local charities.  My buddy 
was a Peruaño and did a lot of logistical work for some charities in Milwaukee 
who supported rural medical care in Peru.

Peru has a large number of Asians, much like Panama does. Not sure why, but the 
Asian community there was pretty significant from what I saw. In big cities 
like Lima it was pretty safe for Anglos, but if you got out into the rural 
areas you had a target on your back. The locals had no problems and were 
actually pretty cool (indigenous folks with the cool bowler hats and serapés) 
and neat to hang with, but the Shining Path guys were totally psycho and would 
kill foreigners without so much as a by your leave.  As a result it wasn't a 
good idea to go wandering around the countryside unless you were with a local.  
The State Department pretty much said you were on your own if you left the city.

Peru was a cool place to visit, and I always enjoyed my trips there. It helped 
that my buddy was a local, as he was able to navigate for us and knew his way 
around.  I'm not sure I would feel safe going there as a tourista.

Dan

Sent from my iPad


On Jun 6, 2016, at 5:52 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes  
wrote:

I asked my niece that question in reference to SA countries, but Mexico is 
similar enough.  She was the resident expert on certain political and economic 
matters in a certain SA country for A Government Agency, so was probably as 
knowledgeable about such things as anyone could be.  She has a degree from 
Georgetown in International Relations, and a fair amount of training.  She has 
briefed presidents directly/personally on these matters.

She thought about it a bit and attributed it to the effects of colonialism, in 
that the ruling classes of most LA countries are the descendants of the 
yurpeens, the Spanish specifically, and mostly white/mestizo not native and 
their attitudes towards the indigenos is not wildly different from colonial 
times 500 years ago.  That sorta made sense -- they have their status and 
wealth and really don't care that much about the rest.  In places where 
indigenos do get elected (I think Hugo in Venezuela and the guy in Bolivia?) 
they tend to go overboard the other way with the predictable results -- it gets 
even worse.

Interestingly, we were just in Peru and the electioneering was going big time 
for the election yesterday.  They started out with something like 30 
candidates, it got winnowed down to 2, Fujimori and Kuczinski (sp?), both 
right-center candidates and obviously neither has an indigeno name, not even a 
Spanish name.  I'm still not sure which got elected as last I heard it was 
50.5-49.5 for K.  In any case, Peru has been fairly right of center, and their 
economy has been going pretty well, and from what I saw it did not have the 
really bad poverty you see in Mexico and some other countries, though most 
people would not be wealthy by any means. The Fujimori candidate is the 
daughter of a former president, now in prison, who went a bit too far after 
eradicating the communist Shining Path uprising, which people are still 
grateful for though a few remain 

Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Peru is not such a bad place relative to other SA countries.  The elder 
Fujimori, while not the most up front "president" was definitely better than 
your average SA dictator/despot.

He did a lot for social causes and really went after the Shining Path (Maoist 
rebels) that terrorized the rural areas.  I got to meet him once when a 
business associate I traveled SA with regularly arranged the donation of some 
medical equipment to a rural hospital. We attended a state dinner where the 
President honored a bunch of people who supported local charities.  My buddy 
was a Peruaño and did a lot of logistical work for some charities in Milwaukee 
who supported rural medical care in Peru.

Peru has a large number of Asians, much like Panama does. Not sure why, but the 
Asian community there was pretty significant from what I saw. In big cities 
like Lima it was pretty safe for Anglos, but if you got out into the rural 
areas you had a target on your back. The locals had no problems and were 
actually pretty cool (indigenous folks with the cool bowler hats and serapés) 
and neat to hang with, but the Shining Path guys were totally psycho and would 
kill foreigners without so much as a by your leave.  As a result it wasn't a 
good idea to go wandering around the countryside unless you were with a local.  
The State Department pretty much said you were on your own if you left the city.

Peru was a cool place to visit, and I always enjoyed my trips there. It helped 
that my buddy was a local, as he was able to navigate for us and knew his way 
around.  I'm not sure I would feel safe going there as a tourista.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 6, 2016, at 5:52 PM, Joel Cairo via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I asked my niece that question in reference to SA countries, but Mexico is 
> similar enough.  She was the resident expert on certain political and 
> economic matters in a certain SA country for A Government Agency, so was 
> probably as knowledgeable about such things as anyone could be.  She has a 
> degree from Georgetown in International Relations, and a fair amount of 
> training.  She has briefed presidents directly/personally on these matters.
> 
> She thought about it a bit and attributed it to the effects of colonialism, 
> in that the ruling classes of most LA countries are the descendants of the 
> yurpeens, the Spanish specifically, and mostly white/mestizo not native and 
> their attitudes towards the indigenos is not wildly different from colonial 
> times 500 years ago.  That sorta made sense -- they have their status and 
> wealth and really don't care that much about the rest.  In places where 
> indigenos do get elected (I think Hugo in Venezuela and the guy in Bolivia?) 
> they tend to go overboard the other way with the predictable results -- it 
> gets even worse.
> 
> Interestingly, we were just in Peru and the electioneering was going big time 
> for the election yesterday.  They started out with something like 30 
> candidates, it got winnowed down to 2, Fujimori and Kuczinski (sp?), both 
> right-center candidates and obviously neither has an indigeno name, not even 
> a Spanish name.  I'm still not sure which got elected as last I heard it was 
> 50.5-49.5 for K.  In any case, Peru has been fairly right of center, and 
> their economy has been going pretty well, and from what I saw it did not have 
> the really bad poverty you see in Mexico and some other countries, though 
> most people would not be wealthy by any means. The Fujimori candidate is the 
> daughter of a former president, now in prison, who went a bit too far after 
> eradicating the communist Shining Path uprising, which people are still 
> grateful for though a few remain back in the mountains and in the forests 
> causing trouble.
> 
> Some countries are starting to get their acts organized though Argentina 
> keeps regressing every 10-15yr or so.  Chile is doing well, as I think is 
> Colombia, mostly, after the bad times with the drug trade.  Brazil is 
> starting to slow down after some good growth.  Costa Rica and Panama are 
> doing pretty well.  Ecuador could but their idiot presidente keeps trying to 
> screw things up with socialismo to appeal to the lower classes.  It seems 
> that the ones doing well adopt some US-style reforms and the leaders take 
> some interest in the general welfare and actually 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

The Mexicans have a pretty inclusive school system that has an extremely 
powerful labor union, one of the strongest in the country.  Unfortunately, like 
many organized labor groups, it’s rife with cronyism and graft.

Dan


> On Jun 6, 2016, at 7:07 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I was surprised to see that the Mexican literacy rate is about 95%. It must
> be that the Mexicans that come to the US are more heavily represented by
> those que no pueden leer.
> 
> As to the reason for the poverty despite the wealth of resources: cronyism
> and corruption; kind of like the way we've been going.
> 
> Greg
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes]

I was surprised to see that the Mexican literacy rate is about 95%. It must
be that the Mexicans that come to the US are more heavily represented by
those que no pueden leer.

As to the reason for the poverty despite the wealth of resources: cronyism
and corruption; kind of like the way we've been going.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Ritchey via Mercedes
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 2:33 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Scott Ritchey
Subject: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

It has long seemed to me that there is no fundamental reason for Mexico to
be less prosperous than the US.  Mexicans are educated, at least to the
point they are literate.  They are hard-working.  They have a strong family
identity.  They have great natural resources.  They have a large country
with a mild climate. And they have access to both Atlantic and Pacific
ports.  

 

So why is Mexico so poor and crime ridden that folks flock to the US for
jobs and safety?  

 

This is more than an idle question if we don't want the US to become Mexico.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

IN SHORT, MEXICO IS A SYSTEM OF FEUDAL LORDS.  (Complicated by friction 
between the political lords and the drug lord...when there is a difference.)



Joel Cairo via Mercedes 
June 6, 2016 at 4:52 PMvia Postbox 

I asked my niece that question in reference to SA countries, but 
Mexico is similar enough.  She was the resident expert on certain 
political and economic matters in a certain SA country for A 
Government Agency, so was probably as knowledgeable about such things 
as anyone could be.  She has a degree from Georgetown in International 
Relations, and a fair amount of training.  She has briefed presidents 
directly/personally on these matters.


She thought about it a bit and attributed it to the effects of 
colonialism, in that the ruling classes of most LA countries are the 
descendants of the yurpeens, the Spanish specifically, and mostly 
white/mestizo not native and their attitudes towards the indigenos is 
not wildly different from colonial times 500 years ago.  That sorta 
made sense -- they have their status and wealth and really don't care 
that much about the rest.  In places where indigenos do get elected (I 
think Hugo in Venezuela and the guy in Bolivia?) they tend to go 
overboard the other way with the predictable results -- it gets even 
worse.


Interestingly, we were just in Peru and the electioneering was going 
big time for the election yesterday.  They started out with something 
like 30 candidates, it got winnowed down to 2, Fujimori and Kuczinski 
(sp?), both right-center candidates and obviously neither has an 
indigeno name, not even a Spanish name.  I'm still not sure which got 
elected as last I heard it was 50.5-49.5 for K.  In any case, Peru has 
been fairly right of center, and their economy has been going pretty 
well, and from what I saw it did not have the really bad poverty you 
see in Mexico and some other countries, though most people would not 
be wealthy by any means. The Fujimori candidate is the daughter of a 
former president, now in prison, who went a bit too far after 
eradicating the communist Shining Path uprising, which people are 
still grateful for though a few remain back in the mountains and in 
the forests causing trouble.


Some countries are starting to get their acts organized though 
Argentina keeps regressing every 10-15yr or so.  Chile is doing well, 
as I think is Colombia, mostly, after the bad times with the drug 
trade.  Brazil is starting to slow down after some good growth.  Costa 
Rica and Panama are doing pretty well.  Ecuador could but their idiot 
presidente keeps trying to screw things up with socialismo to appeal 
to the lower classes.  It seems that the ones doing well adopt some 
US-style reforms and the leaders take some interest in the general 
welfare and actually try to improve things.  Not so much in Mexico.


--JC




Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
June 6, 2016 at 4:32 PMvia Postbox 


It has long seemed to me that there is no fundamental reason for Mexico to
be less prosperous than the US. Mexicans are educated, at least to the
point they are literate. They are hard-working. They have a strong family
identity. They have great natural resources. They have a large country
with a mild climate. And they have access to both Atlantic and Pacific
ports.



So why is Mexico so poor and crime ridden that folks flock to the US for
jobs and safety?



This is more than an idle question if we don't want the US to become 
Mexico.



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Mexicans

[Joel Cairo via Mercedes]

I asked my niece that question in reference to SA countries, but Mexico 
is similar enough.  She was the resident expert on certain political and 
economic matters in a certain SA country for A Government Agency, so was 
probably as knowledgeable about such things as anyone could be.  She has 
a degree from Georgetown in International Relations, and a fair amount 
of training.  She has briefed presidents directly/personally on these 
matters.


She thought about it a bit and attributed it to the effects of 
colonialism, in that the ruling classes of most LA countries are the 
descendants of the yurpeens, the Spanish specifically, and mostly 
white/mestizo not native and their attitudes towards the indigenos is 
not wildly different from colonial times 500 years ago.  That sorta made 
sense -- they have their status and wealth and really don't care that 
much about the rest.  In places where indigenos do get elected (I think 
Hugo in Venezuela and the guy in Bolivia?) they tend to go overboard the 
other way with the predictable results -- it gets even worse.


Interestingly, we were just in Peru and the electioneering was going big 
time for the election yesterday.  They started out with something like 
30 candidates, it got winnowed down to 2, Fujimori and Kuczinski (sp?), 
both right-center candidates and obviously neither has an indigeno name, 
not even a Spanish name.  I'm still not sure which got elected as last I 
heard it was 50.5-49.5 for K.  In any case, Peru has been fairly right 
of center, and their economy has been going pretty well, and from what I 
saw it did not have the really bad poverty you see in Mexico and some 
other countries, though most people would not be wealthy by any means. 
The Fujimori candidate is the daughter of a former president, now in 
prison, who went a bit too far after eradicating the communist Shining 
Path uprising, which people are still grateful for though a few remain 
back in the mountains and in the forests causing trouble.


Some countries are starting to get their acts organized though Argentina 
keeps regressing every 10-15yr or so.  Chile is doing well, as I think 
is Colombia, mostly, after the bad times with the drug trade.  Brazil is 
starting to slow down after some good growth.  Costa Rica and Panama are 
doing pretty well.  Ecuador could but their idiot presidente keeps 
trying to screw things up with socialismo to appeal to the lower 
classes.  It seems that the ones doing well adopt some US-style reforms 
and the leaders take some interest in the general welfare and actually 
try to improve things.  Not so much in Mexico.


--JC


On 6/6/16 5:32 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:

It has long seemed to me that there is no fundamental reason for Mexico to
be less prosperous than the US.  Mexicans are educated, at least to the
point they are literate.  They are hard-working.  They have a strong family
identity.  They have great natural resources.  They have a large country
with a mild climate. And they have access to both Atlantic and Pacific
ports.

  


So why is Mexico so poor and crime ridden that folks flock to the US for
jobs and safety?

  


This is more than an idle question if we don't want the US to become Mexico.


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--
--BB

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