Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device
> OK gang, I've looked everywhere and have not found a description of > what is inside the hydropneumatic device fitted to W108 rear axles. So far as I know, it's more like a hydraulic bottle jack, I'm not sure if it pumps air or fluid as the thing flexes. I believe its problem is that the seals go, but don't quote me on that. I didn't think it had a diaphragm. I think it's extremely clever. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device
Howdy - When the hydropneumatic levelling device died on my W108 it allowed the rear of the car to ride very low. Wy too low. I found a Spring Assy. that could be used in lieu of the compensator since back then (30 years ago) they were almost $500. The Spring was less than $100 and IIRC I bought it from a place in Fl. The spring brought the rear end back to proper ride height and changed the ride very little. My compensator never leaked - it just collapsed - that's the way they all fail AFAIK. Good luck - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: "David Bruckmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes List" Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 2:23 AM Subject: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device > OK gang, I've looked everywhere and have not found a description of what > is inside the hydropneumatic device fitted to W108 rear axles. > > Is this a typical nitrogen-charge-behind-a-diaphragm scenario (this would > explain why they don't last forever) or did the engineers do something > clever? Well, the self levelling is a clever idea in itself, but were they > able to avoid the need for a diaphragm and a nitrogen charge... > > What is the failure mode for these devices? Is it just that they stop > performing the levelling function (loss of fluid) or do they lose the > nitrogen charge and then become very firm, producing a harsh ride? > > Numerous people have told me that this device doesn't last and doesn't > make a big difference etc etc, but people say the same about the > self-levelling on MB wagons and that's certainly not a troublesome system > if you understand it. > > Has anyone actually seen one of the W108-fitted devices in pieces, or a > diagram of its composition? > > D. > > -- > David Bruckmann, Palo Alto, CA > Current Reality: > 1970 Citroen DS21 Pallas (170,000 km) "Goettin" > 1972 Mercedes-Benz 280 SEL 4.5 (150,000 km) "Blauer Engel" > 1976 Citroen 2CV6 (145,000 km) "Piaf" http://dolly.bruckmann.com/ > 1979 Mercedes-Benz 300D (390,000 km) "Brown Betty" > Shady Past: > 1971 Citroen DS21 Pallas (137,000km), 1972 Citroen DS21 Pallas (502,000km) > 1978 Mercedes-Benz 300D (1,200,000 km or thereabouts) "Sieglinde" > 1979 Mercedes-Benz 300TD non-turbo (260,000 km) "Diva" > 1981 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston (120,000km), 1988 Merkur XR4Ti (209,000km) > 1981 Peugeot 505 GRD (350,000km), 1984 MB 300TD (385,000 km) "Gertraud" > 1985 Toyota Camry "The Slamry" (330,000km) 1986 Renault 9 1.7L (155,000 > km) > 2002 VW Golf GLS TDI "The Hated Golf" (74,000 km) > > -- > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4/1187 - Release Date: > 12/16/2007 11:36 AM > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device
It's a pump system with hydraulic damping using air compressed by the movement of the piston shaft back and forth and an internal valving system to keep the resting position the same. Works great when new, but I suspect they are all long dead by now. Either the seals fail and it won't hold pressure, or the valves fail and it won't generate pressure. There is a reason that Benz switched to pump driven hydraulic/nitrogen self leveling in 1968. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device
Been a while now but Dan Penoff used to have a '62 300SE, a fintail with hydropneumatics. As I recall, when I first saw it the car had been sitting for quite a while and the suspension had leaked down. It pumped right up on starting though and held pretty well at shutoff. Don't know if he ever addressed that but I suspect he knows a fair amount about the system. I encountered him fairly recently - over at Rusty's forum, iirc; you might try there. His ride was #44 on the list at: http://www.heckflosse.nl/photo.htm#87200 -j ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device
> Been a while now but Dan Penoff used to have a '62 300SE, a fintail > with hydropneumatics. That's different. The leveling device was, IIRC, always called a 'compensator'. Though it was _a_ hydropneumatic levelling device, it was not _the_ hld. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device
the general feeling is that the springs work for sixes but not for eights. On Dec 18, 2007 7:53 AM, LarryT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Howdy - >When the hydropneumatic levelling device died on my W108 it allowed the > rear of the car to ride very low. Wy too low. I found a Spring Assy. > that could be used in lieu of the compensator since back then (30 years > ago) > they were almost $500. The Spring was less than $100 and IIRC I bought it > from a place in Fl. > >The spring brought the rear end back to proper ride height and changed > the ride very little. > >My compensator never leaked - it just collapsed - that's the way they > all fail AFAIK. > >Good luck - > > Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) > www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts > Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil > PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net > Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs > . > > - Original Message - > From: "David Bruckmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Mercedes List" > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 2:23 AM > Subject: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device > > > > OK gang, I've looked everywhere and have not found a description of what > > is inside the hydropneumatic device fitted to W108 rear axles. > > > > Is this a typical nitrogen-charge-behind-a-diaphragm scenario (this > would > > explain why they don't last forever) or did the engineers do something > > clever? Well, the self levelling is a clever idea in itself, but were > they > > able to avoid the need for a diaphragm and a nitrogen charge... > > > > What is the failure mode for these devices? Is it just that they stop > > performing the levelling function (loss of fluid) or do they lose the > > nitrogen charge and then become very firm, producing a harsh ride? > > > > Numerous people have told me that this device doesn't last and doesn't > > make a big difference etc etc, but people say the same about the > > self-levelling on MB wagons and that's certainly not a troublesome > system > > if you understand it. > > > > Has anyone actually seen one of the W108-fitted devices in pieces, or a > > diagram of its composition? > > > > D. > > > > -- > > David Bruckmann, Palo Alto, CA > > Current Reality: > > 1970 Citroen DS21 Pallas (170,000 km) "Goettin" > > 1972 Mercedes-Benz 280 SEL 4.5 (150,000 km) "Blauer Engel" > > 1976 Citroen 2CV6 (145,000 km) "Piaf" http://dolly.bruckmann.com/ > > 1979 Mercedes-Benz 300D (390,000 km) "Brown Betty" > > Shady Past: > > 1971 Citroen DS21 Pallas (137,000km), 1972 Citroen DS21 Pallas > (502,000km) > > 1978 Mercedes-Benz 300D (1,200,000 km or thereabouts) "Sieglinde" > > 1979 Mercedes-Benz 300TD non-turbo (260,000 km) "Diva" > > 1981 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston (120,000km), 1988 Merkur XR4Ti (209,000km) > > 1981 Peugeot 505 GRD (350,000km), 1984 MB 300TD (385,000 km) "Gertraud" > > 1985 Toyota Camry "The Slamry" (330,000km) 1986 Renault 9 1.7L (155,000 > > km) > > 2002 VW Golf GLS TDI "The Hated Golf" (74,000 km) > > > > -- > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4/1187 - Release Date: > > 12/16/2007 11:36 AM > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device
I couldn't disagree more. I replaced the rear spring kit with an OEM used compensator and this eliminated a lot of harshness in how the car takes bumpy roads, esp. in the rear. On Dec 18, 2007 7:53 AM, LarryT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Howdy - >When the hydropneumatic levelling device died on my W108 it allowed the > rear of the car to ride very low. Wy too low. I found a Spring Assy. > that could be used in lieu of the compensator since back then (30 years > ago) > they were almost $500. The Spring was less than $100 and IIRC I bought it > from a place in Fl. > >The spring brought the rear end back to proper ride height and changed > the ride very little. > >My compensator never leaked - it just collapsed - that's the way they > all fail AFAIK. > >Good luck - > > Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) > www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts > Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil > PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net > Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs > . > > - Original Message - > From: "David Bruckmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Mercedes List" > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 2:23 AM > Subject: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device > > > > OK gang, I've looked everywhere and have not found a description of what > > is inside the hydropneumatic device fitted to W108 rear axles. > > > > Is this a typical nitrogen-charge-behind-a-diaphragm scenario (this > would > > explain why they don't last forever) or did the engineers do something > > clever? Well, the self levelling is a clever idea in itself, but were > they > > able to avoid the need for a diaphragm and a nitrogen charge... > > > > What is the failure mode for these devices? Is it just that they stop > > performing the levelling function (loss of fluid) or do they lose the > > nitrogen charge and then become very firm, producing a harsh ride? > > > > Numerous people have told me that this device doesn't last and doesn't > > make a big difference etc etc, but people say the same about the > > self-levelling on MB wagons and that's certainly not a troublesome > system > > if you understand it. > > > > Has anyone actually seen one of the W108-fitted devices in pieces, or a > > diagram of its composition? > > > > D. > > > > -- > > David Bruckmann, Palo Alto, CA > > Current Reality: > > 1970 Citroen DS21 Pallas (170,000 km) "Goettin" > > 1972 Mercedes-Benz 280 SEL 4.5 (150,000 km) "Blauer Engel" > > 1976 Citroen 2CV6 (145,000 km) "Piaf" http://dolly.bruckmann.com/ > > 1979 Mercedes-Benz 300D (390,000 km) "Brown Betty" > > Shady Past: > > 1971 Citroen DS21 Pallas (137,000km), 1972 Citroen DS21 Pallas > (502,000km) > > 1978 Mercedes-Benz 300D (1,200,000 km or thereabouts) "Sieglinde" > > 1979 Mercedes-Benz 300TD non-turbo (260,000 km) "Diva" > > 1981 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston (120,000km), 1988 Merkur XR4Ti (209,000km) > > 1981 Peugeot 505 GRD (350,000km), 1984 MB 300TD (385,000 km) "Gertraud" > > 1985 Toyota Camry "The Slamry" (330,000km) 1986 Renault 9 1.7L (155,000 > > km) > > 2002 VW Golf GLS TDI "The Hated Golf" (74,000 km) > > > > -- > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4/1187 - Release Date: > > 12/16/2007 11:36 AM > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device
Perhaps. I noticed the differnece immediately in my 280SE 3.5. I can't recall whether my W108 280SE sedan had the spring or the compensator. On Dec 18, 2007 10:43 AM, Gary Hurst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > the general feeling is that the springs work for sixes but not for eights. > > On Dec 18, 2007 7:53 AM, LarryT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Howdy - > >When the hydropneumatic levelling device died on my W108 it allowed > the > > rear of the car to ride very low. Wy too low. I found a Spring > Assy. > > that could be used in lieu of the compensator since back then (30 years > > ago) > > they were almost $500. The Spring was less than $100 and IIRC I bought > it > > from a place in Fl. > > > >The spring brought the rear end back to proper ride height and > changed > > the ride very little. > > > >My compensator never leaked - it just collapsed - that's the way they > > all fail AFAIK. > > > >Good luck - > > > > Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) > > www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts > > Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil > > PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net > > Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs > > . > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "David Bruckmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Mercedes List" > > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 2:23 AM > > Subject: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device > > > > > > > OK gang, I've looked everywhere and have not found a description of > what > > > is inside the hydropneumatic device fitted to W108 rear axles. > > > > > > Is this a typical nitrogen-charge-behind-a-diaphragm scenario (this > > would > > > explain why they don't last forever) or did the engineers do something > > > clever? Well, the self levelling is a clever idea in itself, but were > > they > > > able to avoid the need for a diaphragm and a nitrogen charge... > > > > > > What is the failure mode for these devices? Is it just that they stop > > > performing the levelling function (loss of fluid) or do they lose the > > > nitrogen charge and then become very firm, producing a harsh ride? > > > > > > Numerous people have told me that this device doesn't last and doesn't > > > make a big difference etc etc, but people say the same about the > > > self-levelling on MB wagons and that's certainly not a troublesome > > system > > > if you understand it. > > > > > > Has anyone actually seen one of the W108-fitted devices in pieces, or > a > > > diagram of its composition? > > > > > > D. > > > > > > -- > > > David Bruckmann, Palo Alto, CA > > > Current Reality: > > > 1970 Citroen DS21 Pallas (170,000 km) "Goettin" > > > 1972 Mercedes-Benz 280 SEL 4.5 (150,000 km) "Blauer Engel" > > > 1976 Citroen 2CV6 (145,000 km) "Piaf" http://dolly.bruckmann.com/ > > > 1979 Mercedes-Benz 300D (390,000 km) "Brown Betty" > > > Shady Past: > > > 1971 Citroen DS21 Pallas (137,000km), 1972 Citroen DS21 Pallas > > (502,000km) > > > 1978 Mercedes-Benz 300D (1,200,000 km or thereabouts) "Sieglinde" > > > 1979 Mercedes-Benz 300TD non-turbo (260,000 km) "Diva" > > > 1981 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston (120,000km), 1988 Merkur XR4Ti > (209,000km) > > > 1981 Peugeot 505 GRD (350,000km), 1984 MB 300TD (385,000 km) > "Gertraud" > > > 1985 Toyota Camry "The Slamry" (330,000km) 1986 Renault 9 1.7L(155,000 > > > km) > > > 2002 VW Golf GLS TDI "The Hated Golf" (74,000 km) > > > > > > -- > > > > > > ___ > > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > > > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4/1187 - Release Date: > > > 12/16/2007 11:36 AM > > > > > > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device
He is subscribed here also, I do believe. --- Kaleb C. Striplin Cox Auto Trader - Original Message - From: "Joe Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device > Been a while now but Dan Penoff used to have a '62 300SE, a fintail > with hydropneumatics. As I recall, when I first saw it the car had > been sitting for quite a while and the suspension had leaked down. It > pumped right up on starting though and held pretty well at shutoff. > Don't know if he ever addressed that but I suspect he knows a fair > amount about the system. I encountered him fairly recently - over at > Rusty's forum, iirc; you might try there. His ride was #44 on the > list at: > http://www.heckflosse.nl/photo.htm#87200 > > -j > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device
Why? It's on the opposite end of the car & the weight is the same over the rear end regardless of the engine. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Hurst Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:44 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device the general feeling is that the springs work for sixes but not for eights. On Dec 18, 2007 7:53 AM, LarryT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Howdy - >When the hydropneumatic levelling device died on my W108 it allowed the > rear of the car to ride very low. Wy too low. I found a Spring Assy. > that could be used in lieu of the compensator since back then (30 years > ago) > they were almost $500. The Spring was less than $100 and IIRC I bought it > from a place in Fl. > >The spring brought the rear end back to proper ride height and changed > the ride very little. > >My compensator never leaked - it just collapsed - that's the way they > all fail AFAIK. > >Good luck - > > Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) > www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts > Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil > PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net > Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs > . > > - Original Message - > From: "David Bruckmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Mercedes List" > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 2:23 AM > Subject: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device > > > > OK gang, I've looked everywhere and have not found a description of what > > is inside the hydropneumatic device fitted to W108 rear axles. > > > > Is this a typical nitrogen-charge-behind-a-diaphragm scenario (this > would > > explain why they don't last forever) or did the engineers do something > > clever? Well, the self levelling is a clever idea in itself, but were > they > > able to avoid the need for a diaphragm and a nitrogen charge... > > > > What is the failure mode for these devices? Is it just that they stop > > performing the levelling function (loss of fluid) or do they lose the > > nitrogen charge and then become very firm, producing a harsh ride? > > > > Numerous people have told me that this device doesn't last and doesn't > > make a big difference etc etc, but people say the same about the > > self-levelling on MB wagons and that's certainly not a troublesome > system > > if you understand it. > > > > Has anyone actually seen one of the W108-fitted devices in pieces, or a > > diagram of its composition? > > > > D. > > > > -- > > David Bruckmann, Palo Alto, CA > > Current Reality: > > 1970 Citroen DS21 Pallas (170,000 km) "Goettin" > > 1972 Mercedes-Benz 280 SEL 4.5 (150,000 km) "Blauer Engel" > > 1976 Citroen 2CV6 (145,000 km) "Piaf" http://dolly.bruckmann.com/ > > 1979 Mercedes-Benz 300D (390,000 km) "Brown Betty" > > Shady Past: > > 1971 Citroen DS21 Pallas (137,000km), 1972 Citroen DS21 Pallas > (502,000km) > > 1978 Mercedes-Benz 300D (1,200,000 km or thereabouts) "Sieglinde" > > 1979 Mercedes-Benz 300TD non-turbo (260,000 km) "Diva" > > 1981 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston (120,000km), 1988 Merkur XR4Ti (209,000km) > > 1981 Peugeot 505 GRD (350,000km), 1984 MB 300TD (385,000 km) "Gertraud" > > 1985 Toyota Camry "The Slamry" (330,000km) 1986 Renault 9 1.7L (155,000 > > km) > > 2002 VW Golf GLS TDI "The Hated Golf" (74,000 km) > > > > -- > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4/1187 - Release Date: > > 12/16/2007 11:36 AM > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device
I think we;re talking aout different things here. The Hydropneumatic Leveling Device (Compensator IIRC) I talked about being on my W108 - a 68 280S, did not use a pump to keep it pressurized - it was more like a huge shock absorber (about8" dismeter x 12" long) that was mounted above the rear axle differential transversly. It did not have ay air or fluid connections and there was no pump to maintain pressure. Perhaps there is more than one type? I see Rusty sells the Spring I used but not the compensator - maybe they;re difficult to get? Also, there may be some confusion because of the Air Bags used at each corner to maintain level on the higher end W108's? Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: "Peter Frederick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device > It's a pump system with hydraulic damping using air compressed by the > movement of the piston shaft back and forth and an internal valving system > to keep the resting position the same. Works great when new, but I > suspect they are all long dead by now. > > Either the seals fail and it won't hold pressure, or the valves fail and > it won't generate pressure. > > There is a reason that Benz switched to pump driven hydraulic/nitrogen > self leveling in 1968. > > Peter > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4 - Release Date: 12/16/2007 > 12:00 AM > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device
> I think we're talking aout different things here. The Hydropneumatic > Leveling Device (Compensator IIRC) I talked about being on my W108 - a > 68 > 280S, did not use a pump to keep it pressurized - it was more like a > huge > shock absorber (about8" dismeter x 12" long) that was mounted above > the rear > axle differential transversly. Yes, it has a pump. It's inside. As are all the other parts. An elegant bit of engineering. The compensator is NLA. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device
They were never cheap but occasionally someone is selling a good used one on ebay. On Dec 19, 2007 10:32 AM, Jim Cathey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think we're talking aout different things here. The Hydropneumatic > > Leveling Device (Compensator IIRC) I talked about being on my W108 - a > > 68 > > 280S, did not use a pump to keep it pressurized - it was more like a > > huge > > shock absorber (about8" dismeter x 12" long) that was mounted above > > the rear > > axle differential transversly. > > Yes, it has a pump. It's inside. As are all the other parts. > An elegant bit of engineering. The compensator is NLA. > > -- Jim > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device
How was it powered? Mine didn't have any electric connections? Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: "Jim Cathey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device >> I think we're talking aout different things here. The Hydropneumatic >> Leveling Device (Compensator IIRC) I talked about being on my W108 - a >> 68 >> 280S, did not use a pump to keep it pressurized - it was more like a >> huge >> shock absorber (about8" dismeter x 12" long) that was mounted above >> the rear >> axle differential transversly. > > Yes, it has a pump. It's inside. As are all the other parts. > An elegant bit of engineering. The compensator is NLA. > > -- Jim > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4 - Release Date: 12/16/2007 > 12:00 AM > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device
i just spread the hearsay, not work out the math of it. On Dec 19, 2007 12:04 AM, Tom Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Why? It's on the opposite end of the car & the weight is the same over the > rear end regardless of the engine. > > Thanks, > Tom Hargrave > www.kegkits.com > 256-656-1924 > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Gary Hurst > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:44 AM > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device > > the general feeling is that the springs work for sixes but not for eights. > > On Dec 18, 2007 7:53 AM, LarryT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Howdy - > >When the hydropneumatic levelling device died on my W108 it allowed the > > rear of the car to ride very low. Wy too low. I found a Spring Assy. > > that could be used in lieu of the compensator since back then (30 years > > ago) > > they were almost $500. The Spring was less than $100 and IIRC I bought it > > from a place in Fl. > > > >The spring brought the rear end back to proper ride height and changed > > the ride very little. > > > >My compensator never leaked - it just collapsed - that's the way they > > all fail AFAIK. > > > >Good luck - > > > > Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) > > www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts > > Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil > > PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net > > Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs > > . > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "David Bruckmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Mercedes List" > > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 2:23 AM > > Subject: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device > > > > > > > OK gang, I've looked everywhere and have not found a description of what > > > is inside the hydropneumatic device fitted to W108 rear axles. > > > > > > Is this a typical nitrogen-charge-behind-a-diaphragm scenario (this > > would > > > explain why they don't last forever) or did the engineers do something > > > clever? Well, the self levelling is a clever idea in itself, but were > > they > > > able to avoid the need for a diaphragm and a nitrogen charge... > > > > > > What is the failure mode for these devices? Is it just that they stop > > > performing the levelling function (loss of fluid) or do they lose the > > > nitrogen charge and then become very firm, producing a harsh ride? > > > > > > Numerous people have told me that this device doesn't last and doesn't > > > make a big difference etc etc, but people say the same about the > > > self-levelling on MB wagons and that's certainly not a troublesome > > system > > > if you understand it. > > > > > > Has anyone actually seen one of the W108-fitted devices in pieces, or a > > > diagram of its composition? > > > > > > D. > > > > > > -- > > > David Bruckmann, Palo Alto, CA > > > Current Reality: > > > 1970 Citroen DS21 Pallas (170,000 km) "Goettin" > > > 1972 Mercedes-Benz 280 SEL 4.5 (150,000 km) "Blauer Engel" > > > 1976 Citroen 2CV6 (145,000 km) "Piaf" http://dolly.bruckmann.com/ > > > 1979 Mercedes-Benz 300D (390,000 km) "Brown Betty" > > > Shady Past: > > > 1971 Citroen DS21 Pallas (137,000km), 1972 Citroen DS21 Pallas > > (502,000km) > > > 1978 Mercedes-Benz 300D (1,200,000 km or thereabouts) "Sieglinde" > > > 1979 Mercedes-Benz 300TD non-turbo (260,000 km) "Diva" > > > 1981 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston (120,000km), 1988 Merkur XR4Ti (209,000km) > > > 1981 Peugeot 505 GRD (350,000km), 1984 MB 300TD (385,000 km) "Gertraud" > > > 1985 Toyota Camry "The Slamry" (330,000km) 1986 Renault 9 1.7L (155,000 > > > km) > > > 2002 VW Golf GLS TDI "The Hated Golf" (74,000 km) > > > > > > -- > > > > > > ___ > > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > > > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > &
Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device
LarryT wrote: > > How was it powered? Mine didn't have any electric connections? I'm guessing suspension movement pumps it up. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device
> How was it powered? Mine didn't have any electric connections? As it bounces up and down it moves the pump piston. Like I said, elegant. The only way the newer system was superior was that it would pump up just sitting there, the older one had to be driven. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device
Wasn't the OEM (someone like BOGE) pressured to stop selling them so MB could mark them up more? This far out there can't possibly be any IP issues but then again, it would be a small market in any case. A former '67 230s (110 or 111) had a bad one. Tony Wirtel ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device
Larry, The "huge shock absorber" you reference uses internal valving to pump itself up & re-level the rear end when under load. That's what makes it better than the replacement spring. Tom www.kegkits.com Original Message From: LarryT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 12/19/07 09:29 AM To: Peter Frederick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= I think we;re talking aout different things here. The Hydropneumatic Leveling Device (Compensator IIRC) I talked about being on my W108 - a 68 280S, did not use a pump to keep it pressurized - it was more like a huge shock absorber (about8" dismeter x 12" long) that was mounted above the rear axle differential transversly. It did not have ay air or fluid connections and there was no pump to maintain pressure. Perhaps there is more than one type? I see Rusty sells the Spring I used but not the compensator - maybe they;re difficult to get? Also, there may be some confusion because of the Air Bags used at each corner to maintain level on the higher end W108's? Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: "Peter Frederick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device > It's a pump system with hydraulic damping using air compressed by the > movement of the piston shaft back and forth and an internal valving system > to keep the resting position the same. Works great when new, but I > suspect they are all long dead by now. > > Either the seals fail and it won't hold pressure, or the valves fail and > it won't generate pressure. > > There is a reason that Benz switched to pump driven hydraulic/nitrogen > self leveling in 1968. > > Peter > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4 - Release Date: 12/16/2007 > 12:00 AM > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device / compensator
Peter, am I to understand then that there is no pre-charged, sealed section to provide springing effect, and that it admits ambient air and then compresses it perhaps with a reed valve or similar setup? I had assumed there was a nitrogen chamber and that the pumping action acted only on the fluid side of the device. I would then expect, as the nitrogen seeps out (it eventually does; as you know that's what makes MB wagon rear suspensions go hard) that the heightened internal pressures (less nitrogen to absorb fluid volume when going over bumps = higher pressure spikes) would cause seal failure and thus device failure. In the Citroen world, if you recharge the nitrogen in time, you can prevent failure of the diaphragm/seals. My hope was perhaps that the Boge strut could be recharged. In contrast, if it is an open system, this would suggest that durability is tied to dust and moisture in the ambient air. I wonder if these devices can be disassembled and inspected/cleaned, or if there are any preventive or maintenance measures that can be taken. I could live with an occasional overhaul of this device if I knew it would prevent total failure. This can't POSSIBLY be as complex as the throttle linkage on a non-turbo automatic 300D! That truly takes the prize for needless complexity. :) If the valve on my car has indeed failed, as I suspect it has, I'll be taking it apart for sure. Anyone else have one of these lying around that they feel like disassembling? D. >-- > >Message: 5 >Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 09:53:06 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >From: Peter Frederick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: [MBZ] W108 hydropneumatic levelling device > >It's a pump system with hydraulic damping using air compressed by the movement >of the piston shaft back and forth and an internal valving system to keep the >resting position the same. Works great when new, but I suspect they are all >long dead by now. > >Either the seals fail and it won't hold pressure, or the valves fail and it >won't generate pressure. > >There is a reason that Benz switched to pump driven hydraulic/nitrogen self >leveling in 1968. > >Peter > > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
