RE: Moving the MC IDE forward
> I once considered writing a Rev plugin called GhostCard, which > would emulate > the UI of the dead HyperCard: > > When activated, the Rev IDE is suspended and replaced with a > black-and-white > UI that emulates the Hypercard expoerience. You could only work with one > image, only select one object at a time, no options for tab controls etc. > > It would also have a Preferences stack with a User Level feature: > values go > from 1 to 5 plus a special value for "Infinity". If you set the > User Level > to Infinity the Ghostcard UI goes away and Rev comes back. > > ;) > Now that would be an amusing waste of time ;-) As Buzz Lightyear would say 'To infinity and beyond!' Monte > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Media Corporation > Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site > ___ > [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com > Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc > > ___ > metacard mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard > ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Moving the MC IDE forward
Ben Rubinstein wrote: > Maybe that is the way forward for those who will want to continue to upgrade > to new engines etc, benefit from the additional libraries, but use their own > or the "classic" MetaCard UI. It might even be possible to formalise this > in a future version of Rev - eg have preferences to switch off the Rev UI at > startup, and to open some other UI at the same time. (Actually the latter > may hardly be needed; I have a little toolbar which supplements the Rev UI, > which is implemented as a Rev "plugin", and set to open at startup and glue > itself to the end of the Rev menubar. When the Rev UI is suspended, my bit > stays in place.) I once considered writing a Rev plugin called GhostCard, which would emulate the UI of the dead HyperCard: When activated, the Rev IDE is suspended and replaced with a black-and-white UI that emulates the Hypercard expoerience. You could only work with one image, only select one object at a time, no options for tab controls etc. It would also have a Preferences stack with a User Level feature: values go from 1 to 5 plus a special value for "Infinity". If you set the User Level to Infinity the Ghostcard UI goes away and Rev comes back. ;) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 AIM: FourthWorldInc ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: OS X Educational Shareware Market?
Richard MacLemale wrote: I think that, with many schools doing Mac OS X migration, there's a whole market of educational users looking for elementary level OS X applications that are NATIVE OS X and don't require Classic. Speaking for my own county I know this is true. There are titles available for OS X at the elementary level, but nowhere NEAR as many as were available in the OS 7 and OS 8 days. Glad to know there's the opportunity. I'm currently working on getting back into actively releasing educational shareware again. 1. Piracy, and piracy of registration codes. (I found my old program Mr. Fixitup's registration code on 12 different websites, and the program hasn't been sold in 5 years!) Did it have name tied to code or just code? I'm planning to also have a statement on the reg screen that encourages honesty, and maybe also require them to type in the code again when hard disk changes. (Or at least something they have to click to agree to that encourages honesty.) I agree with some people who say focusing on good software and marketing is more important than really advanced protection features, but I do believe in a practical level of protection that will make a difference with normal people who have some conscience. 2. Competition from free online Flash games and activities. Hmmm... Spread rumors to discredit them? :-) Just kidding. 3. Consumer apathy about paying for shareware. Seriously, there's still plenty of people who are wondering where Napster went because they don't understand why it was ILLEGAL. Even otherwise honest people need educating about it, plus society needs to be more honest and more in general. But there's a serious excitement over OS X in schools, and elementary schools are just now in the process of thinking about making the move. The number of elementary schools that run OS X is increasing and it will keep going up for probably the next 5 years as schools slowly switch over. So I'm wondering if anyone might be willing to share their thoughts about the OS X educational software market? That's really good to hear! Curry Kenworthy ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Does raisePalettes not work in OSX?
With raisePalettes set to false, my palettes behave as expected in Mac OS9.2, but in OSX 10.2.6 they remain "raised" even if raisePalettes is false. Do others experience this? If so, is there a workaraound in OSX that would make a palette behave in an "unraised" manner, i.e., behave like a normal document window, while still looking like a palette (with the narrow title bar)? Many thanks. David Epstein ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
The first order of business will be to set up a mailing list so that we can start discussions of how that group should be organized and later, what changes to the UI everyone wants (and are willing to contribute to!). That should help keep this list focused on *using* the UI, with some discussions of the engine technology it shares with the new "standard" development environment, Revolution. I'd say *this* is that mailing list. Not to put too fine a point on it but I'm exactly happy about using the RunRev UI, and if this list gets merged with theirs then I won't know what the hell people are talking about when they start mumbling about RunRev windows/palettes etc. If RunRev wants to give me a free upgrade to their current product I'd be willing to test it on my current stacks. But no promises on me liking it, I'm a big fan of the MC IDE. Huge fan. But at least you're still around Scott. I felt a wave of relief reading your post! OK, so who wants to host that mailing list? Regards, Scott PS: it's at times like this that I miss Grant Schampel ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). He always loved a good brouhaha, and always had something insightful to say about the back-room dealings that make them possible... Shari C Gypsy King Software -- --Shareware Games for the Mac-- http://www.gypsyware.com Scott Raney [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard Sincerely, Simon ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
Wow. See what happens when you only go through your lists once a week... My feelings on this are mixed, on the one hand I'm hoping Scott got a sweet deal and can retire/relax after years of hard work. I haven't read through all the RE:'s on this thread but if it hasn't been said yet then I'd just like to say thanks to Scott for everything he has done for me personally and for the list. As for RunRev, I have no feelings about them or their products one way or another. I will say this however, I truly hope that they maintain both UI's independently of each other. After using MC for the last 12 years I can honestly say that I'd probably ditch MC in a heartbeat if RunRev decided to only support their authoring environment (I'm having a hell of a time learning Flash - don't need more "OUIE GUI" to deal with). UI arguments aside, I doubt I'm the only one that feels this way. Hell, after 12 years I kind of know where everything is. Nothing can beat the simplicity of the MC interface! I'd like to congratulate Kevin on building up his company to what it is today as well. As Eminem would say, "that's my 10 cents, my 2 cents are free". On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 06:15 PM, Ken Ray wrote: Just went over to the RunRev site and saw this headline: "Runtime Aquires MetaCard Technology" You can read all about it here: http://www.runrev.com/metacardpr.html How does everyone feel about this? I can see good and not-so-good things (depending on how RunRev acts on this)... Your thoughts? Ken Ray Sons of Thunder Software Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard Sincerely, Simon ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Moving the MC IDE forward
Not that I'm here to speak for RunRev or anything (and for all I know those folks may know of a reason why this suggestion is a very bad idea); but if you're interested in things like the database support, but find the interface too rcih/in your face, have you tried the "Suspend Development Tools" option under the "Development" menu? Interesting, I missed this menu item. It's encouraging only because it proves Kevin can easily provide a *minimalist* authoring environment that MC users are accustomed to. I'd have thought this might mean you get all the advantages of Rev in terms of extended libraries - but effectively get rid of all their UI (except for one tiny pallete with a "Restore" button on, which you minimise). I'd guess you could then just open the MetaCard UI instead (but of course I could be wrong). I think it was meant to hide the Rev tools while you tested your stack. It otherwise does not appear to do much in *suspended* mode. Maybe that is the way forward for those who will want to continue to upgrade to new engines etc, benefit from the additional libraries, but use their own or the "classic" MetaCard UI. It might even be possible to formalise this in a future version of Rev - eg have preferences to switch off the Rev UI at startup, and to open some other UI at the same time. (Actually the latter may hardly be needed; I have a little toolbar which supplements the Rev UI, which is implemented as a Rev "plugin", and set to open at startup and glue itself to the end of the Rev menubar. When the Rev UI is suspended, my bit stays in place.) Agreed. Seems trivial to make an MC IDE as a *plugin* which is built and supported by MC users and use the *Suspend* type feature to switch between the two. Seems easier to do this than to support two independent IDEs. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who gives this a go. Or RunRev's opinions if in fact they think it's a Very Bad Idea. Same here. Ben Rubinstein | Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com| Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard Sincerely, Simon ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Moving the MC IDE forward
on 7/21/03 3:10 PM, Simon lord wrote > Maybe Kevin will add a pref dialog that allows us to decide what > palettes and menus we want to see in our work environment. That would > help considerably and I don't see it as being that difficult to provide. [...snip...] > On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 09:10 AM, Robert Brenstein wrote: [...snip...] >> Well, I for one have just renewed MC licence, so I am "stuck" so do >> speak with MC for another year. Not that I despair. I am happy with >> MC, and I see no need for fork out a few hundred bucks to switch to >> Rev any time soon. I am among those for whom Rev's interface is too >> rich and gets in my way. Not that I'm here to speak for RunRev or anything (and for all I know those folks may know of a reason why this suggestion is a very bad idea); but if you're interested in things like the database support, but find the interface too rcih/in your face, have you tried the "Suspend Development Tools" option under the "Development" menu? I'd have thought this might mean you get all the advantages of Rev in terms of extended libraries - but effectively get rid of all their UI (except for one tiny pallete with a "Restore" button on, which you minimise). I'd guess you could then just open the MetaCard UI instead (but of course I could be wrong). Maybe that is the way forward for those who will want to continue to upgrade to new engines etc, benefit from the additional libraries, but use their own or the "classic" MetaCard UI. It might even be possible to formalise this in a future version of Rev - eg have preferences to switch off the Rev UI at startup, and to open some other UI at the same time. (Actually the latter may hardly be needed; I have a little toolbar which supplements the Rev UI, which is implemented as a Rev "plugin", and set to open at startup and glue itself to the end of the Rev menubar. When the Rev UI is suspended, my bit stays in place.) I'd be interested to hear from anyone who gives this a go. Or RunRev's opinions if in fact they think it's a Very Bad Idea. Ben Rubinstein | Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com| Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Moving the MC IDE forward
Agreed. I tried to give Rev an honest chance this weekend and got totally frustrated with all the palettes. I was genuinely happy to see support for MySQL and other items I need but the interface simply turned me off and I had to use MC in the end. It's not that I didn't understand the palette options and offerings, it's just that I don't want/need to know about these things while developing. It's *too* helpful, kinda like a car salesman. Maybe Kevin will add a pref dialog that allows us to decide what palettes and menus we want to see in our work environment. That would help considerably and I don't see it as being that difficult to provide. On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 09:10 AM, Robert Brenstein wrote: On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 11:42 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: So putting it just as bluntly, that there is a perception of MC's value is reason enough. If that perception changes over time the MC engine will whither away naturally. There should be no need to force change, and doing so would not have the liberating feeling of a choice. I'm not proposing forcing anyone to switch. That's not even what I'm asking about. I'm specifically curious why people would expend significant effort updating/enhancing the MC environment. If all we're talking about is maintaining compatibility with new engines, then that's a minimal task and I don't see any reason not to. Well, I for one have just renewed MC licence, so I am "stuck" so do speak with MC for another year. Not that I despair. I am happy with MC, and I see no need for fork out a few hundred bucks to switch to Rev any time soon. I am among those for whom Rev's interface is too rich and gets in my way. Robert ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard Sincerely, Simon ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Moving the MC IDE forward
On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 11:42 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: So putting it just as bluntly, that there is a perception of MC's value is reason enough. If that perception changes over time the MC engine will whither away naturally. There should be no need to force change, and doing so would not have the liberating feeling of a choice. I'm not proposing forcing anyone to switch. That's not even what I'm asking about. I'm specifically curious why people would expend significant effort updating/enhancing the MC environment. If all we're talking about is maintaining compatibility with new engines, then that's a minimal task and I don't see any reason not to. Well, I for one have just renewed MC licence, so I am "stuck" so do speak with MC for another year. Not that I despair. I am happy with MC, and I see no need for fork out a few hundred bucks to switch to Rev any time soon. I am among those for whom Rev's interface is too rich and gets in my way. Robert ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Moving the MC IDE forward
I have a library of custom handlers that I load at startup in both MC and Rev. One of my handlers reports the mainstacks that are currently loaded in memory. When I run this handler in MC, there are at most only a couple of stacks from the IDE listed, but in Rev, it is difficult to find my own stacks among the dozens that Rev maintains. When I get around to it, I will customize my handler to remove all the "rev" stacks before displaying the results, but at that moment the extra info was intrusive. I can't remove these stacks from Rev (nor do I want to) because they are necessary to its functioning. A somewhat parallel example is the number of custom messages that are constantly being sent in the background by Rev. I know I can view a modified list of pending messages from within the message box, but since MC sends no custom messages in the background at all, MC's IDE translates to the user as "cleaner." And again, these custom messages can't be removed from the program. ... -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com This may not be critical for many applications but it may for some. I wonder, for example, how those extra messages flying behind affect using Rev as a cgi on a web server? Similarly, how the timing issues are affected for, for example, psychology experiments that measure reaction times? I gather than some of these msgs continue to fly in standalones as well. Robert ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: MySQL Support
on 7/19/03 12:14 AM, Simon lord wrote > Hi all, I need to write an app that will allow me to read/write data to > MySQL. I'd like to tinker with this on the weekend and I've seen it > mentioned here a few times but was not in the market to use such a > combination. > > That said, can some kind sole provide me with the following: > > 1) Information about what I need in order read/write to MySQL > 2) A sample stack (I can change the MySQL table calls) just so get a > frame of reference > > This would be much appreciated, I look forward to playing with it. If it's not too off-list-topic - it must be worth mentioning that support for this is "built in" to Revolution (that is, Rev is supplied with a library which 'just works', and which you can then have built into your standalones). There's a straightforward set of routines which allow you to connect to the database, make queries, execute SQL etc. In Rev 2 there's also a point and click interface layered on top of this, which doesn't do everything you want, but makes it straightforward to for example with a few clicks add to a card a table field which is automatically updated (eg each time the card is opened - configurable) with the columns you select from a SQL query to a MySQL or various other databases. (The full list is that it supports MySQL, Oracle, PostgreSQL and Valentina natively; plus many others via ODBC.) AFAIK, you can do this is in the free edition - there are some extra limitations (beyond the standard script-length one) about number of non-ODBC databases you can have open unless you go for the full "Professional" license. I might be wrong about that - in fact I just took a look at the runrev site, and I get the impression that they're just about to shake up their license options. By the looks of it, the changes will be more favourable if you just want MySQL. Anyway, I'd definitely suggest it was worth a try with the free edition. I'd be pretty sure it was the simplest way to achieve what you want: of course you need to set the extra effort involved in other ways to achieve it with vanilla MC against what it might cost to cross-grade to Rev. Hope this helps, Ben Rubinstein | Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com| Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: METACARD ACQUIRED BY RUN REV!!!
Catching up after two-week vacation... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can anyone give us a difference list? a summary: MetaCard Revolution Enginesame same Both use the same engine; languages features, speed etc. identical for both I am not sure this is quite correct. The core language is the same, of course, but Rev has a number of extensions to the language of MetaCard. Although they are outside the engine itself, they are defined as part of Rev's language as far as I know (probably not all MC commands are purely in engine itself either). IDE fast but spartan; feature-rich; slower few command keys in some operations and fewer palettesrequiring lots of means many trips to palette updates the menu bar I tried Rev earlier on my G3 PowerBook, my main MC development tool. The IDE took so much screen estate, I could barely work and had to constantly shift windows/palettes around. I wonder whether this got any better in 2.x. Docs bare bones; extensive; complete often presumesexamples for nearly familiarity every token; requires with UNIX;more memory compact System requirements: cpu/memory ? support list activity: posts per day ? direct support from company: email/phone/costs ? Robert ___ metacard mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
