Re: Holy moley! First test of Revolution versus Metacard
On Aug 31, 2006, at 7:20 PM, Shari wrote: So you embed your [ask and answer] stacks with some other name, and have the startup sequence rename them every time it launches? Yep, though not when the application I'm making doesn't need them. I've never had a problem with it. t -- Tereza Snyder Califex Software, Inc. www.califexsoftware.com ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Holy moley! First test of Revolution versus Metacard
Jacque, Thought you might want to know that Heather believes you should retain the Dreamboat of the Week title :-) She said she'd pass it back to you as you deserved it more :-) As for Metacard vs Rev's IDE, I know I will appreciate Rev's multi-line message box. For year's I've used a work around for that, finding a control that did not have a script, and using it temporarily to test multi-line handlers. And I will look forward to having a complete understanding of the Standalone builder in Rev. There are days when you have to rebuild something several times in a day, and automation would be very nice. I will try the Standalone builder of MC again in a couple days, renaming everything as you've specified. We'll cross our fingers Today, I will work on the project that should not give it fits. This stack should move into Rev without a hitch. The other one is very complex and has a lot of components, maybe that's why people like it :-) I will likely jump back and forth between the IDE's once I reach a comfort level with both. As many have stated, each has a very specific usefulness. Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me. Shari -- Mac and Windows shareware games http://www.gypsyware.com ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Holy moley! First test of Revolution versus Metacard
Shari wrote: The stack opens. But the Revolution IDE does not like that I have standard stacks installed in the stack. (For ease of Standalone building, a long time ago I installed custom versions of Ask, Answer, Message etc. in the stack so that I would not have to import them every time I built a standalone.) The Message box in particular gives it fits. Actually, MetaCard has exactly the same problem, but it doesn't put up any warning about it. It is generally a bad idea to embed the message box or other IDE stacks, because you can't have two stacks open with the same name. The engine gets really, really confused when you do that. Rev tries to protect you from that. MetaCard ignores the fact that you have two message boxes open (and earlier versions of Rev did too,) but if you edit one of them, it can easily be the wrong one. The engine doesn't distinguish between the two and will operate on whichever one it happens to notice first. Unless you supply a full path to the stack every time you edit, you can't be sure the right one has focus. Rev warns you ahead of time, but you can cancel the warning and continue if you want. I could not determine whether my password protections were still in place. (The Message Box errors seemed to override most of what I tried to experiment with.) You can type in the message box: the password of this stack and you'll see the encoding. But in Rev, it is a better idea not to manually assign passwords for stacks you plan to release as standalones. The standalone builder can assign the password when it builds, leaving your stack free and clear during development. The standalone builder also adds the message box, ask/answer dialogs, and many other libraries and files if you say you want them. You can also tell it to copy over external files or stacks of your choosing; they will appear in the application's folder as separate files, ready to ship. Another feature I've really come to appreciate is the built-in error reporting for standalones. That last pane allows you to put in your email address, and if a user gets an error, a dialog will appear with a description of the engine error and a place for them to add comments, and any boilerplate you want to add. When they click "Send" it opens up their email client and lets them send you the error report. The neat thing about this is that if you include it during development builds, you can read the error in your own email client. It's a handy way to debug standalones. I like that my stacks remain clear of debris at all times, while all the files and features I want still get put into the build. Overall it was rather confusing, not having a clue how to approach things that are second nature to me. There were so many standalone options, and I could not tell if it recognized any of my presettings, Basically, you have to set things up once. After that, the settings dialog will remember and you can check on the feature's status there. The standalone settings dialog uses a few custom properties in your stack to store your choices. It doesn't read the stack on the fly; you'll have to tell it the first time so it knows. it was very confusing. I assumed that once familiar with it, standalones would be easier to build as there appeared to be more presettings that could be set. Yes. That's why I like it. But at this time, too much confusion, so I opened the happy stack in the newly created Metacard 2.7 IDE. Familiarity returned. No weird errors regarding things I have pre-installed. There are only a few stacks that cause the warning. The ask/answer dialogs and the message box are the only ones I can think of offhand. The easiest way to deal with it is to remove those stacks from your mainstack in MetaCard, using the Components pane in the stack info dialog. Then bring the stack over to Rev and it will open as easily as it does in MC now. If you want to remove them in the Rev IDE instead, you'll have to type. Make sure you enter the long name of the stack when you do the delete: delete stack "message box" of stack "myStack" or else the engine may delete the IDE message box. I really was looking forward to working in Revolution itself. But at least for existing, finished projects, it's a good thing I can work in the familiar IDE. I made the move slowly. There's a lot in there, and some of it is really handy. Pick one component at a time and play with it. For example, play with the message box for a day. Besides the standard 1-line box, you can have multiple lines. I very much like the message box lists of pending messages, frontscripts, backscripts, and the easy way you can access them for editing. I always forget it's there, but I think the lists of current global properties could be pretty handy too. Another problem for me in MC is knowing at a glance which stack is currently the default. Rev puts that up for display in the mess
Re: Holy moley! First test of Revolution versus Metacard
But I'm curious, when would you need the message box in a finished application? Rev's message box, with its extra features, would hardly be suitable, though MetaCard's plain ole box would I suppose be more neutral. t The message box is for internal use only. I found it is easier to permanently embed stacks that I might need during testing of a standalone. Moving stacks in and out was a pain in the patootie. So it is in there just for me :-) So you embed your stacks with some other name, and have the startup sequence rename them every time it launches? Shari -- Mac and Windows shareware games http://www.gypsyware.com ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Holy moley! First test of Revolution versus Metacard
On Aug 31, 2006, at 6:57 AM, Shari wrote: Now that I have Revolution up and running and Metacard 2.7 up and running I thought I'd open my biggest fully finished project and see how it fared with both. ... The stack opens. But the Revolution IDE does not like that I have standard stacks installed in the stack. (For ease of Standalone building, a long time ago I installed custom versions of Ask, Answer, Message etc. in the stack so that I would not have to import them every time I built a standalone.) The Message box in particular gives it fits. I could not determine whether my password protections were still in place. (The Message Box errors seemed to override most of what I tried to experiment with.) Hi Shari, When I need the standard stacks in my standalones, I make copies of them and include the copies as substacks of my splash stack. Then on startup, I rename the stacks with: if not(there is a stack "xxx") then set the name of stack "copy of xxx" to "xxx" This also makes a way for me to customize the appearance or behavior of the standard stacks so they fit with my application. But I'm curious, when would you need the message box in a finished application? Rev's message box, with its extra features, would hardly be suitable, though MetaCard's plain ole box would I suppose be more neutral. t -- Tereza Snyder Califex Software, Inc. www.califexsoftware.com ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Holy moley! First test of Revolution versus Metacard
Now that I have Revolution up and running and Metacard 2.7 up and running I thought I'd open my biggest fully finished project and see how it fared with both. With all the new additions to Revolution since my version, I thought I'd work in Revolution for a little while to help me learn what new goodies existed. So I opened the existing, finished, happy stack in Revolution. The goal was to create a UB standalone from an existing stack. The stack opens. But the Revolution IDE does not like that I have standard stacks installed in the stack. (For ease of Standalone building, a long time ago I installed custom versions of Ask, Answer, Message etc. in the stack so that I would not have to import them every time I built a standalone.) The Message box in particular gives it fits. I could not determine whether my password protections were still in place. (The Message Box errors seemed to override most of what I tried to experiment with.) Overall it was rather confusing, not having a clue how to approach things that are second nature to me. There were so many standalone options, and I could not tell if it recognized any of my presettings, it was very confusing. I assumed that once familiar with it, standalones would be easier to build as there appeared to be more presettings that could be set. But at this time, too much confusion, so I opened the happy stack in the newly created Metacard 2.7 IDE. Familiarity returned. No weird errors regarding things I have pre-installed. I really was looking forward to working in Revolution itself. But at least for existing, finished projects, it's a good thing I can work in the familiar IDE. Perhaps I can try working on my new project in Revolution, and work on existing projects in Metacard. The new project should be in the early enough stages not to send it into spasms. Shari -- Mac and Windows shareware games http://www.gypsyware.com ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
