Re: how to update delivered stacks & script limit

[Pierre Sahores]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
> 
> > I think most people are quite happy with the license restrictions that
> > metacard uses. Personally I think we should be thankful that we don't need
> > to purchase a license each time we distribute a standalone.
> 
> More than thankful. Elated is more like it!
> 
> Licence-free distribution of standalones is one of the cornerstones of MetaCard's 
>appeal, particularly in Education. If we had to negotiate and pay-for licences for 
>our standalones, we would definitely think-twice on small vertical projects and so on.
> 
> There is more to be elated about than just this though. The Starter-Kit's licencing 
>is truly wonderful. Absolutely free. No limitations built-in, such as the 
>all-too-frequent "can't print" or "can't save" or "expires after..." limitations of 
>most 'demos'. The only limitation is the 10-line-per-script limit and it's not really 
>that limiting. Most of my clients (Education) don't script very much, or at all; and 
>the 10-line-script limit can easily be circumvented with modular design, file I/O, 
>internet I/O; and the limit does not apply to playback (e.g. only when authoring 
>scripts).
> 
> And now, because of my "say it ain't so Joe" plea for help, regarding how to 
>distribute standalones/stacks such that they can be 'saved', we discover that we can 
>take an empty stack, add one "go to stack ..." button to it, save it as a standalone, 
>and freely distribute the MC stack and standalone, such that the standalone 'plays' 
>the MC stack without the presence of MC itself. Wow!
> 
> This has to be the absolute-best licencing scheme that I have ever heard of, Better 
>even than my most optimistic expectations. Personally, I am blown away! The only 
>"fly-in-the-ointment", so to speak, is that this licencing is too-good-to-be-true and 
>may be substantially revised someday, e.g. become more constrained. So far this is a 
>totally un-founded fear though :)
> 
> Kudos to MetaCard for its visionary licencing scheme,
> 
> Alain Farmer
> __
> Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at 
>http://webmail.netscape.com/
> 
> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/
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> Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.

-- 
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Re: RE: how to update delivered stacks & script limit

[AlainFarmer]

> I think most people are quite happy with the license restrictions that
> metacard uses. Personally I think we should be thankful that we don't need
> to purchase a license each time we distribute a standalone.

More than thankful. Elated is more like it!

Licence-free distribution of standalones is one of the cornerstones of MetaCard's 
appeal, particularly in Education. If we had to negotiate and pay-for licences for our 
standalones, we would definitely think-twice on small vertical projects and so on.

There is more to be elated about than just this though. The Starter-Kit's licencing is 
truly wonderful. Absolutely free. No limitations built-in, such as the 
all-too-frequent "can't print" or "can't save" or "expires after..." limitations of 
most 'demos'. The only limitation is the 10-line-per-script limit and it's not really 
that limiting. Most of my clients (Education) don't script very much, or at all; and 
the 10-line-script limit can easily be circumvented with modular design, file I/O, 
internet I/O; and the limit does not apply to playback (e.g. only when authoring 
scripts).

And now, because of my "say it ain't so Joe" plea for help, regarding how to 
distribute standalones/stacks such that they can be 'saved', we discover that we can 
take an empty stack, add one "go to stack ..." button to it, save it as a standalone, 
and freely distribute the MC stack and standalone, such that the standalone 'plays' 
the MC stack without the presence of MC itself. Wow!

This has to be the absolute-best licencing scheme that I have ever heard of, Better 
even than my most optimistic expectations. Personally, I am blown away! The only 
"fly-in-the-ointment", so to speak, is that this licencing is too-good-to-be-true and 
may be substantially revised someday, e.g. become more constrained. So far this is a 
totally un-founded fear though :)

Kudos to MetaCard for its visionary licencing scheme,

Alain Farmer
__
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at 
http://webmail.netscape.com/

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RE: how to update delivered stacks & script limit

[Monte Goulding]

I think most people are quite happy with the license restrinctions that
metacard uses. Personally I think we should be thankfull that we don't need
to purchase a license each time we distribute a standalone.

> > From: Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > On 17/2/01 9:41 am, Ernst Michael Reicher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > hm, and you believe that this is the only and effective safety lock
> which
> > > prevents to create and sell a competing product?
> > Yes.  Unless you can come up with some other, equally reliable solution!
> So
> > far no one has ;-)
>
> hm, don´t ask a simpleUser...
> but to my knowledge there are some commercial solutions...
> I use a SW at my office that has a hardware-dongle and they will
> switch to a
> better solution - some "SW-dongle" - don´t ask me how it works...
>
> but MC is not the only SW in the world that could be altered and sold
> and for a black sheep the investement of one licence to sell several black
> altered copies should not be the real problem!!!
>
> Regards,
>   Ernst
>
>
> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/
> Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm
> Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
>
>


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Re: how to update delivered stacks & script limit

[Ernst Michael Reicher]

> From: Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> On 17/2/01 9:41 am, Ernst Michael Reicher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > hm, and you believe that this is the only and effective safety lock
which
> > prevents to create and sell a competing product?
> Yes.  Unless you can come up with some other, equally reliable solution!
So
> far no one has ;-)

hm, don´t ask a simpleUser...
but to my knowledge there are some commercial solutions...
I use a SW at my office that has a hardware-dongle and they will switch to a
better solution - some "SW-dongle" - don´t ask me how it works...

but MC is not the only SW in the world that could be altered and sold
and for a black sheep the investement of one licence to sell several black
altered copies should not be the real problem!!!

Regards,
  Ernst


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Re: how to update delivered stacks & script limit

[David Bovill]

I thought you did with the online connection required every-now-and-then
whatsits?

> From: Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 13:55:48 +
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: how to update delivered stacks & script limit
> 
> On 17/2/01 9:41 am, Ernst Michael Reicher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> hm, and you believe that this is the only and effective safety lock which
>> prevents to create and sell a competing product?
> 
> Yes.  Unless you can come up with some other, equally reliable solution!  So
> far no one has ;-)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Kevin
> 
> Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://www.runrev.com/>
> Runtime Revolution Limited (formerly Cross Worlds Computing).
> Tel: +44 (0)131 672 2909.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.
> 
> 
> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/
> Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm
> Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
> 
> 


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Re: how to update delivered stacks & script limit

[Kevin Miller]

On 17/2/01 9:41 am, Ernst Michael Reicher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> hm, and you believe that this is the only and effective safety lock which
> prevents to create and sell a competing product?

Yes.  Unless you can come up with some other, equally reliable solution!  So
far no one has ;-)

Regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Runtime Revolution Limited (formerly Cross Worlds Computing).
Tel: +44 (0)131 672 2909.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.


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Re: how to update delivered stacks & script limit

[Ernst Michael Reicher]

> From: Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wouldn´t it be easier to set the script
>
> How can you allow that to happen while preventing someone from producing a
> competitor to MetaCard that is simply a MetaCard standalone?  I.e.
purchase
> one copy of MetaCard and use it to create and sell a competing product?

hm, and you believe that this is the only and effective safety lock which
prevents to create and sell a competing product?

Regards,
  Ernst


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Re: how to update delivered stacks & script limit

[Kevin Miller]

On 14/2/01 9:29 pm, Ernst Michael Reicher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> Not at all - you can normally copy in and out objects that need to be
>> updated.  Or even entire stacks or substacks.  Or distribute in multiple
>> files.  The only script its a little hard to update is the mainStack
> script
>> itself.
> What about the data in a bg fld which is on let´s say 500 cards???
> If you cut the fld and copy one in with the updated script - where is the
> data???

I think in that case it would be easier to replace the stack.

> wouldn´t it be easier to set the script

How can you allow that to happen while preventing someone from producing a
competitor to MetaCard that is simply a MetaCard standalone?  I.e. purchase
one copy of MetaCard and use it to create and sell a competing product?

Regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Runtime Revolution Limited (formerly Cross Worlds Computing).
Tel: +44 (0)131 672 2909.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.


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Re: how to update delivered stacks & script limit

[Ernst Michael Reicher]

> Not at all - you can normally copy in and out objects that need to be
> updated.  Or even entire stacks or substacks.  Or distribute in multiple
> files.  The only script its a little hard to update is the mainStack
script
> itself.
What about the data in a bg fld which is on let´s say 500 cards???
If you cut the fld and copy one in with the updated script - where is the
data???
wouldn´t it be easier to set the script

It looks to me like the licence for an excellent vehicle but in this licence
it says: the wheels have to have always contact to the ground!!!
Doesn´t matter, isn´t it???




but the vehicle is an airplane :-(

Regards,
  Ernst

>
> Regards,
>
> Kevin


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Re: how to update delivered stacks & script limit

[Kevin Miller]

On 9/2/01 9:02 pm, Ernst Michael Reicher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> but would it be also "definately *not* allowed under the terms of the
> MetaCard license" if I - by myself - copy it to a disc
> carry it this disc to the client
> insert it into his computer - by myself
> start the updater
> trash it and empty trash by myself
> and carry the disc home - by myself...

No, that is allowed - you are the named user of your license.

> but seriously - besides the "terms of the MetaCard license"
> what could be done with a file like this - shortened down and
> passwordprotected
> and isn´t this a black hole in MC-functionality

Not at all - you can normally copy in and out objects that need to be
updated.  Or even entire stacks or substacks.  Or distribute in multiple
files.  The only script its a little hard to update is the mainStack script
itself.

Regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Runtime Revolution Limited (formerly Cross Worlds Computing).
Tel: +44 (0)131 672 2909.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.


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Re: how to update delivered stacks & script limit

[Ernst Michael Reicher]

Hi Kevin,
but would it be also "definately *not* allowed under the terms of the
MetaCard license" if I - by myself - copy it to a disc
carry it this disc to the client
insert it into his computer - by myself
start the updater
trash it and empty trash by myself
and carry the disc home - by myself...

but seriously - besides the "terms of the MetaCard license"
what could be done with a file like this - shortened down and
passwordprotected
and isn´t this a black hole in MC-functionality

Regards,
  Ernst

> From: Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: how to update delivered stacks & script limit
> On 8/2/01 10:34 pm, Ernst Michael Reicher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Kevin and others,
> > the problem was to change a script in an delivered stackand the
> > scriptLimit
>
> Yes.  My solution was intended to address this exact problem.
>
> > I hope its no blasphemy or something awfull...
> >
> > but what about taking a copy of a licensed homestack, shortening it down
to
> > a useless thing that only shows a modal window at startup with to
buttons:
> > "updateStack x" and "quit" and which is passwordprotected.
> > Could anybody do something with it???
>
> This is definately *not* allowed under the terms of the MetaCard license!
> The licensed version of that stack is "per named individual" and must not
be
> redistributed in any form!
>
> Regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://www.runrev.com/>
> Runtime Revolution Limited (formerly Cross Worlds Computing).
> Tel: +44 (0)131 672 2909.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.


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Re: how to update delivered stacks & script limit

[Geoff Canyon]

At 11:34 PM +0100 2/8/01, Ernst Michael Reicher wrote:
>Hi Kevin and others,
>the problem was to change a script in an delivered stackand the
>scriptLimit
>
>I hope its no blasphemy or something awfull...
>
>but what about taking a copy of a licensed homestack, shortening it down to
>a useless thing that only shows a modal window at startup with to buttons:
>"updateStack x" and "quit" and which is passwordprotected.
>Could anybody do something with it???

Here's another possibility to examine. Scott or Kevin, feel free to 
jump in if this also violates the license. Unless you password 
protect it, a stack is actually fairly comprehensible as a straight 
binary file. If your delivered application is not password protected 
(which it probably should be) then you might find via a simple search 
the script you're looking for, and be able to replace it.

But you'd be much better off with any of the other proposed 
solutions. This one certainly isn't supported, even if it doesn't 
violate the license.

gc


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Re: how to update delivered stacks & script limit

[David Bovill]

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Re: how to update delivered stacks & script limit

[Pierre Sahores]

David Bovill a écrit :
> 
> Except posted to the RunRev list? Or was that just the Licence Key -:)
> 
> > From: Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 23:43:42 +
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: how to update delivered stacks & script limit
> >
> > On 8/2/01 10:34 pm, Ernst Michael Reicher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Kevin and others,
> >> the problem was to change a script in an delivered stackand the
> >> scriptLimit
> >
> > Yes.  My solution was intended to address this exact problem.
> >
> >> I hope its no blasphemy or something awfull...
> >>
> >> but what about taking a copy of a licensed homestack, shortening it down to
> >> a useless thing that only shows a modal window at startup with to buttons:
> >> "updateStack x" and "quit" and which is passwordprotected.
> >> Could anybody do something with it???
> >
> > This is definately *not* allowed under the terms of the MetaCard license!
> > The licensed version of that stack is "per named individual" and must not be
> > redistributed in any form!
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://www.runrev.com/>
> > Runtime Revolution Limited (formerly Cross Worlds Computing).
> > Tel: +44 (0)131 672 2909.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.
> >
> >
> > Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/
> > Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm
> > Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
> >
> >
> 
> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/
> Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm
> Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.

-- 
Pierre Sahores

WEB & VPN applications and databases servers
Inspection académique de la Seine-Saint-Denis
Qualifier et produire l'avantage compétitif

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Re: how to update delivered stacks & script limit

[David Bovill]

Except posted to the RunRev list? Or was that just the Licence Key -:)

> From: Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 23:43:42 +
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: how to update delivered stacks & script limit
> 
> On 8/2/01 10:34 pm, Ernst Michael Reicher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Kevin and others,
>> the problem was to change a script in an delivered stackand the
>> scriptLimit
> 
> Yes.  My solution was intended to address this exact problem.
> 
>> I hope its no blasphemy or something awfull...
>> 
>> but what about taking a copy of a licensed homestack, shortening it down to
>> a useless thing that only shows a modal window at startup with to buttons:
>> "updateStack x" and "quit" and which is passwordprotected.
>> Could anybody do something with it???
> 
> This is definately *not* allowed under the terms of the MetaCard license!
> The licensed version of that stack is "per named individual" and must not be
> redistributed in any form!
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Kevin
> 
> Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://www.runrev.com/>
> Runtime Revolution Limited (formerly Cross Worlds Computing).
> Tel: +44 (0)131 672 2909.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.
> 
> 
> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/
> Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm
> Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
> 
> 


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Re: how to update delivered stacks & script limit

[Kevin Miller]

On 8/2/01 10:34 pm, Ernst Michael Reicher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi Kevin and others,
> the problem was to change a script in an delivered stackand the
> scriptLimit

Yes.  My solution was intended to address this exact problem.

> I hope its no blasphemy or something awfull...
> 
> but what about taking a copy of a licensed homestack, shortening it down to
> a useless thing that only shows a modal window at startup with to buttons:
> "updateStack x" and "quit" and which is passwordprotected.
> Could anybody do something with it???

This is definately *not* allowed under the terms of the MetaCard license!
The licensed version of that stack is "per named individual" and must not be
redistributed in any form!

Regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Runtime Revolution Limited (formerly Cross Worlds Computing).
Tel: +44 (0)131 672 2909.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.


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Re: how to update delivered stacks & script limit

[Ernst Michael Reicher]

Hi Kevin and others,
the problem was to change a script in an delivered stackand the
scriptLimit

I hope its no blasphemy or something awfull...

but what about taking a copy of a licensed homestack, shortening it down to
a useless thing that only shows a modal window at startup with to buttons:
"updateStack x" and "quit" and which is passwordprotected.
Could anybody do something with it???

???

Regards,
  Ernst


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Re: how to update delivered stacks & script limit

[Kevin Miller]

On 7/2/01 11:33 pm, Sivakatirswami <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Do we read this correctly that means you cannot swap out the project script.
> . .since that is not an "object" per se.

Not without replacing the entire stack.  You can place an object with a new
message into the message path using a frontScript, but I wouldn't recommend
this technique as it would be hard to keep track of, maintain and debug.

> I guess card scripts could be changed copying in the card and deleting the
> old card. True? Or are the swappable objects limited to "controls."

No, cards can be swapped too.

Regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Runtime Revolution Limited (formerly Cross Worlds Computing).
Tel: +44 (0)131 672 2909.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.


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Re: how to update delivered stacks & script limit

[Sivakatirswami]

Kevin wrote:

> Right: this is the only limitation on standalones, they revert to the
> Starter Kit limits.  Otherwise you could write a product that competes with
> MetaCard and sell it as a standalone.  The solution to this type of problem
> is to replace the entire object by copying it in and deleteing the old one
> (being careful to set stuff like the layer or grouping it if necessary).

Do we read this correctly that means you cannot swap out the project script.
. .since that is not an "object" per se.

I guess card scripts could be changed copying in the card and deleting the
old card. True? Or are the swappable objects limited to "controls."


Hinduism Today

Sivakatirswami
Editor's Assistant/Production Manager
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
www.HinduismToday.com, www.HimalayanAcademy.com,
www.Gurudeva.org, www.hindu.org



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Re: how to update delivered stacks & script limit

[Kevin Miller]

On 7/2/01 4:21 pm, Ernst Michael Reicher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> how to update delivered stacks???
> if they contain userData you have to make something like exportImport
> routines if you send the whole stack/s to the client...
> 
> but what if you just find a small bug in a script???
> 
> I tried to write an updater which sets the wrong script to the right script
> 
> it works well while testing it with my registered homestack open...
> 
> but not when it´s closed
> even when I make a standalone with my registered version the updateprocess
> causes a scriptLimiterror if the altered script is longer than I think this
> 10-line-limit

Right: this is the only limitation on standalones, they revert to the
Starter Kit limits.  Otherwise you could write a product that competes with
MetaCard and sell it as a standalone.  The solution to this type of problem
is to replace the entire object by copying it in and deleteing the old one
(being careful to set stuff like the layer or grouping it if necessary).

Regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Runtime Revolution Limited (formerly Cross Worlds Computing).
Tel: +44 (0)131 672 2909.  Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707.


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Re: how to update delivered stacks & script limit

[David Bovill]

I haven't done this so don't quote me, but Kevin I believe mentioned a while
back that while you can't change the script you can replace/update
objects/controls.

So if your faulty script is in a control you can replace that control.
Otherwise you could play with front/back scripts/ using stacks (or you're
stuck -:)


> From: "Ernst Michael Reicher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:21:43 +0100
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: how to update delivered stacks & script limit
> 
> Hi list,
> how to update delivered stacks???
> if they contain userData you have to make something like exportImport
> routines if you send the whole stack/s to the client...
> 
> but what if you just find a small bug in a script???
> 
> I tried to write an updater which sets the wrong script to the right script
> 
> it works well while testing it with my registered homestack open...
> 
> but not when it´s closed
> even when I make a standalone with my registered version the updateprocess
> causes a scriptLimiterror if the altered script is longer than I think this
> 10-line-limit
> 
> ???
> any ideas??
> 
> Regards,
> Ernst
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/
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> Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
> 
> 


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how to update delivered stacks & script limit

[Ernst Michael Reicher]

Hi list,
how to update delivered stacks???
if they contain userData you have to make something like exportImport
routines if you send the whole stack/s to the client...

but what if you just find a small bug in a script???

I tried to write an updater which sets the wrong script to the right script

it works well while testing it with my registered homestack open...

but not when it´s closed
even when I make a standalone with my registered version the updateprocess
causes a scriptLimiterror if the altered script is longer than I think this
10-line-limit

???
any ideas??

Regards,
  Ernst




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