Re: metacard IDE devotees

[Chipp Walters]

On 6/5/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


 I am also cultivating my "curmudgeonly grumpy old man" side, and with
some considerable success I might add.




Well, just turned 51 and now available to join AARP, and was wondering at
what age one can apply for the basic curmudgeon license? Course I'm here in
the States, but Hugh, I'm thinking you should be able to at least get me
started with some tips?

-Chipp
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Re: metacard IDE devotees

[Shari]

However, I still like their standalone builder far better than MC's 
(and I know you don't use MC's SB either for many of the same 
reasons.) The way it omits IDE stacks until build time is really a 
good idea, and so is the build-time password protection which is so 
handy I can't imagine not using it any more. The auto plist is good 
too, though I sometimes end up tweaking it later, and the way it 
will add your app icons on any platform without any effort is a big 
plus. There's a lot of stuff in the SB that I find superior to 
MetaCard's. But again, I don't see any reason not to use both IDEs. 
They each have advantages and I don't feel like I have to choose. I 
run both IDEs all the time in tandem. I open stacks in whichever one 
is either not currently in use, or which is more suitable for what 
I'm doing at the moment.


The Standalone builder in Rev is my biggest complaint in Rev.  While 
I would LOVE to have the SB remember my settings for each program, 
two of the features of the Rev SB make it unusable for me:


1.  That it chokes at my having the Ask/Answer stacks already 
embedded (I am working to change this but really don't have the time 
or inclination to redo every proggy I have to appease the IDE at this 
time).


2.  The password issue.  I keep certain stacks always password 
protected.  If someone ever stole my computer or gained access to the 
stacks for any reason, at least I know they would have *some* 
protection from prying eyes.  I would hate to have to remember at 
build time to protect them, if I forgot and sent them out unto the 
world naked, I would panic in a big way.


What I do wish an SB would do is:

1.  Remember my settings for each program

2.  On Mac, automatically do all the internal stuff so I wouldn't 
have to open the Contents folder at all to rename the engine, do 
icons, add stacks, swap pLists, swap that other text file.


Breakfast is calling, must go..

Shari
--
Windows and Macintosh shareware games
BIackjack Gold
http://www.gypsyware.com
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Re: metacard IDE devotees

[FlexibleLearning]

 
 
From: John Vokey wrote:
 
> They, especially my students, consider me to be an IDE  curmudgeon, and 
they may be right
 
I can appreciate that, John. I happen to like ginger  biscuits. Tried others; 
always go back to ginger biscuits. I am also cultivating  my "curmudgeonly 
grumpy old man" side, and with some considerable success I  might add. There's 
also nothing wrong with bow ties and waistcoats as a dress  code. Meanwhile, 
I'm considering taking up a pipe, just to screw the impending  UK anti-smoking 
legislation.
 
/H
(Too old to be a rebel; too young to give up  fighting.)
 


Hugh  Senior 
The Flexible Learning Company 
(: +44  (0)1483.27 87 27
*: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+: 15 Longpoles  Rd, Cranleigh, GU6 7JZ



   
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Re: metacard IDE devotees

[J. Landman Gay]

Richard Gaskin wrote:

What can we do with the MC IDE to make Rev an unnecessary step in your 
workflow?




Nothing. I have to answer questions about it every day in the tech 
support queue. I have to know it. ;)


However, I still like their standalone builder far better than MC's (and 
I know you don't use MC's SB either for many of the same reasons.) The 
way it omits IDE stacks until build time is really a good idea, and so 
is the build-time password protection which is so handy I can't imagine 
not using it any more. The auto plist is good too, though I sometimes 
end up tweaking it later, and the way it will add your app icons on any 
platform without any effort is a big plus. There's a lot of stuff in the 
SB that I find superior to MetaCard's. But again, I don't see any reason 
not to use both IDEs. They each have advantages and I don't feel like I 
have to choose. I run both IDEs all the time in tandem. I open stacks in 
whichever one is either not currently in use, or which is more suitable 
for what I'm doing at the moment.


I'm finding that some of their libraries are pretty good too, and I like 
their default field settings and general overall appearance better. 
(Face it, as much as we like using it, MC is ugly.) The auto-scripted 
menu skeletons are nice (actually, their menu builder is superior in 
other ways too, as it provides a GUI editor for existing menus.) The 
menu-based import of images, movies, and other files is far easier than 
MC's stack-based import, especially once you learn the keyboard 
shortcuts -- tap, tap and there's an imported image. If I need to do a 
lot of image importing, I do it in Rev. You can also import a whole 
folder of images at once if you need to. Again, that's probably not 
generally useful enough to add to MC, but the one time I needed that, I 
just opened the stack in Rev. I think of Rev as an extra toolbox in some 
ways.


MC's property inspectors are better for how I work and much faster than 
Rev's (Rev's drives me absolutely nuts, I can hardly use it.) I do all 
layout in MC because it is easier. I do most scripting and debugging in 
MC (but Rev's debugger is better for tricky problem scripts. When MC's 
debugger hangs, I move over to Rev.) I do all tinkering and one-off 
stuff in MC. I run all my personal stacks and utilities in MC. I vastly 
prefer the MC control browser over Rev's -- I would almost always rather 
see the simpler card-based view than plow through all the stuff in Rev's 
App Browser, which I find top-heavy, slow, and cumbersome.


But my Rev usage has crept up over the last year, partly because of the 
support queue but also partly because I find things here and there that 
are easier to do in Rev. But that's okay. It's like being bilingual. Why 
not have both?


I've said this before (and I suppose people think I'm nuts) but it is so 
very simple to open a stack in either IDE, even while you are currently 
working on it in the other. You just have to remember which one you last 
saved it in --  and I did get bitten by that once so my methods probably 
aren't for everyone. But, if I'm working in MC and find I want to do 
something that's easier in Rev, I can open the stack in Rev, edit it, 
save the stack, then pop back to MC and do a "revert" from the message 
box. I realize this isn't for everyone, but I'm so used to it now that 
it's second nature. I'm just using the "other" toolbox.


I guess if you really want to add stuff to MC, there's some ideas up 
there. But I've got a system that works for me, so don't change things 
on my account. ;)


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: metacard IDE devotees

[Richard Gaskin]

J. Landman Gay wrote:
But man, I wish Rev had chosen the keyboard shortcuts I've been using 
for the last 20+ years in both HC and MC. I still have to remember to 
reset my fingers in Rev. I finally wrote myself a Rev frontscript for a 
few of the things I miss the most.


Or just work in MC.

What can we do with the MC IDE to make Rev an unnecessary step in your 
workflow?


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: metacard IDE devotees

[J. Landman Gay]

John Vokey wrote:

So, for Klaus and Richard and all the other devotees and maintainers of 
the MC IDE, I thank you, thank you, thank you.


Amen. I still use the MC IDE all the time and would be lost without it. 
It took me till version 2.7 before I could really use the Rev IDE. I'm 
finally comfortable in both, but MC is much faster and cleaner. I always 
start there.


But man, I wish Rev had chosen the keyboard shortcuts I've been using 
for the last 20+ years in both HC and MC. I still have to remember to 
reset my fingers in Rev. I finally wrote myself a Rev frontscript for a 
few of the things I miss the most.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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metacard IDE devotees

[John Vokey]

The recent discussion over one user's less than happy switch to the  
Rev IDE from that of Metacard leads me to add my little bit of  
history.  I have tried and tried the Rev IDE, and even beta-tested  
for the original (see the lengthy thank-you list in Rev), and I have  
praised Runtime Revolution to all and sundry, such that many if not  
all of my colleagues now own licences, as do all of my ex-students  
(who use nothing else).  But, I use the MC IDE, even when they,  
especially my students, do not.  They, especially my students,  
consider me to be an IDE curmudgeon, and they may be right, but I  
just don't ``grok'' the Rev interface.  Mind you, I complained  
bitterly about the original MC IDE when it didn't adhere strictly to  
the HC interface, so you can see my general take on things (indeed,  
on the few occasions when I do still whip something up in HC---it is  
like coming home: perfect in every way, except oddly smaller).  I  
also purchased at least one of the other IDEs, and had the same  
feeling of too much sh..., er, too many windows and palettes and  
menus and clicks and who knows what for little gain.


So, for Klaus and Richard and all the other devotees and maintainers  
of the MC IDE, I thank you, thank you, thank you.


--
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See 

-Dr. John R. Vokey


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