Re: [meteorite-list] Is this GM ?

[Matteo Chinellato]

The same for me, look my little Gloritta in my site,
and look the Taza fragment, is many different in the
surface. For me is Taza the piece on Ebay.
Regards

Matteo

--- "meteorite1.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> In my opinion, the contours are too pristine to be a
> Glorietta.  Glorietta has been buried a very long
> time, and this piece certainly doesn't look that
> way.  Taza is very characteristic in its external
> appearance...the soft ridges and curves...not what
> one sees on a Glorietta.  One could always be wrong
> but a quick etch of a small corner would tell the
> tale, but this seller needs to be aware of a
> potential mix-up here.  (I have small Glorietta
> individuals and it looks very different from a small
> Taza.)
> 
> Ron Hartman
> 
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: Ing. Christian ANGER 
>   To: Meteorite-List@Meteoritecentral. Com 
>   Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 8:58 PM
>   Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this GM ?
> 
> 
>   Hi list !
>
>   Please have a look at 
>  
>
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2110132125
>
>   Is this Glorieta Mountain ? It looks like Taza for
> me.
>
>   I never saw a small individual of Glorieta
> Mountain, only slices.
>
>   So I am not sure about. Did anyone see small GM
> individuals ?
>   Do they look like that ?
>
>   Best wishes,
>
>   Christian
>
>   IMCA #2673
>   www.austromet.com
>
>   Ing. Christian ANGER
>   Korngasse 6   
>   2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg  
>   AUSTRIA
>
>   email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
>
> 
> 


=
M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: 
http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140
MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
EBAY.COM:http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Re: [meteorite-list] Is this GM ?

[meteorite1.com]

In my opinion, the contours are too pristine to be a 
Glorietta.  Glorietta has been buried a very long time, and this piece 
certainly doesn't look that way.  Taza is very characteristic in its 
external appearance...the soft ridges and curves...not what one sees on a 
Glorietta.  One could always be wrong but a quick etch of a small 
corner would tell the tale, but this seller needs to be aware of a potential 
mix-up here.  (I have small Glorietta individuals and it looks very 
different from a small Taza.)
 
Ron Hartman
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Ing. 
  Christian ANGER 
  To: Meteorite-List@Meteoritecentral. 
  Com 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 8:58 
PM
  Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this GM 
  ?
  
  Hi list 
  !
   
  Please have a look at 
  
  http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2110132125
   
  Is this Glorieta Mountain 
  ? It looks like Taza for me.
   
  I never saw a small 
  individual of Glorieta Mountain, only slices.
   
  So I am not sure about. 
  Did anyone see small GM individuals ?
  Do they look like that 
  ?
   
  Best 
  wishes,
   
  Christian
   
  IMCA #2673
  www.austromet.com
   
  Ing. Christian 
  ANGER
  Korngasse 
  6   
  
  2405 Bad 
  Deutsch-Altenburg  
  AUSTRIA
   
  email : 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
     
   
  
   

Re: [meteorite-list] Is this GM ?

[Michael Farmer]

Indeed MANY Glorieta Mountain pieces look just like 
that. they also look like Taza. UNM has a piece like a sword! Several kilos and 
long. Some black crust, rust, flow lines etc. 
Mike Farmer

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  MARK 
  BOSTICK 
  To: Ing. Christian ANGER ; Meteorite-List@Meteoritecentral. 
  Com 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 9:11 
PM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this GM 
  ?
  
  Hello Christian and List, 
   
  I saw a few Glorieta babys around 12 grams in Tuscon.  They looked 
  real shrapnel like and unlike the meteorite? in that photo...more like the 
  baby Toluca's I have. Not that there couldnt be individual looking ones like 
  thatbut I have never seen it from any stony-iron.  
   
  I also agree...it looks like Taza. 
   
  For whatever thats worth...
   
  Mark Bostick "The Big Collector"
   
  
- Original Message -
From: 
Ing. Christian ANGER
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 11:06 
PM
To: Meteorite-List@Meteoritecentral. 
Com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this GM 
?
 

Hi list 
!
 
Please have a look at 

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2110132125
 
Is this Glorieta 
Mountain ? It looks like Taza for me.
 
I never saw a small 
individual of Glorieta Mountain, only slices.
 
So I am not sure about. 
Did anyone see small GM individuals ?
Do they look like that 
?
 
Best 
wishes,
 
Christian
 
IMCA #2673
www.austromet.com
 
Ing. Christian 
ANGER
Korngasse 
6   

2405 Bad 
Deutsch-Altenburg  
AUSTRIA
 
email : 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
 

 

Re: [meteorite-list] Is this GM ?

[MARK BOSTICK]

Hello Christian and List,    I saw a few Glorieta babys around 12 grams in Tuscon.  They looked real shrapnel like and unlike the meteorite? in that photo...more like the baby Toluca's I have. Not that there couldnt be individual looking ones like thatbut I have never seen it from any stony-iron.     I also agree...it looks like Taza.    For whatever thats worth...   Mark Bostick "The Big Collector"    - Original Message - From: Ing. Christian ANGER Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 11:06 PM To: Meteorite-List@Meteoritecentral. Com Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this GM ?    Hi list !   Please have a look at  http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2110132125   Is this Glorieta Mountain ? It looks like Taza for me.   I never saw a small individual of Glorieta Mountain, only slices.   So I am not sure about. Did anyone see small GM individuals ? Do they look like that ?   Best wishes,   Christian   IMCA #2673 www.austromet.com   Ing. Christian ANGER Korngasse 6    2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg   AUSTRIA   email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]         

[meteorite-list] Is this GM ?

[Ing. Christian ANGER]

Hi list 
!
 
Please have a look at 

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2110132125
 
Is this Glorieta Mountain ? 
It looks like Taza for me.
 
I never saw a small 
individual of Glorieta Mountain, only slices.
 
So I am not sure about. Did 
anyone see small GM individuals ?
Do they look like that 
?
 
Best 
wishes,
 
Christian
 
IMCA #2673
www.austromet.com
 
Ing. Christian 
ANGER
Korngasse 
6   

2405 Bad 
Deutsch-Altenburg  
AUSTRIA
 
email : 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
 

 

[meteorite-list] More Odessa Related Good News

[robert szep]

Hello again one and all,  
 
I too, am pleased to hear about the ongoing 
developments pertaining to The Odessa Crater. 
The folks involved in improving the site should all 
be acknowleged for their dedicated efforts. 
I, and I'm sure many others, can and now 
do look forward to being one of the many new 
cosmically-curious-''tourists'' drawn to the ancient 'meteorite-crash-site'. 

 
 * As an interesting, almost cosmically 
co-incidental NEW DEVELOPEMENT, the following NEWS is now being 
''RELEASED''. 
 
The Third Millennium Meteorite Calendar - 2003 
Edition  available July 4th, FEATURES on it's FRONT COVER, a 132 pound 
ODESSA IRON METEORITE courtesy of The Oscar E. Monnig Collection ... Texas 
Christian University.  
 
 
 * IT IS A REAL EYE OPENER AND AN IDEAL 
EDUCATIONAL ITEM ON THE GENERAL TOPIC OF METEORITES  
 
For more Information or to Order YOUR 
Advance Copies NOW ... send me an email or better yet, call 519 - 
823-1891. 
 
 
Best regards. 
 
   Robert A. 
Szep   

[meteorite-list] Re: Burnin Desire! [Fwd: Naples Meteorite!]

[magellon]

Kevin,
I figured if  anyone had the "rest of the story", it would be you!
That explains why Harry Horn and the info Babe reported "some persons
had questioned it even being a meteorite"  (looking at each other as to
why would  anyone mess up this great story!!!) Your calling the reporter
and my emailing the news director at least had some effect!
Can't wait to see if they actually report NASA's results!
Kevin, great follow through and  update!
THANKS,
Ken Newton

--- Begin Message ---


Kevin,
Did you see the report by It was on WZVN tv - Naples, Fl.  this
morning and at 6pm. It seems a young man found a red-hot "meteorite" at
the base of a palm tree in Naples. No meteorite was shown, just a burnt
area at the base of a palm. The "meteorite" was magnetic and sent to NASA
for testing. I checked their web site  http://www.abc-7.com/ . It
is not mentioned there as yet. I emailed the news director after seeing
the morning blurb and expressed my doubts that the "meteorite" was genuine. 
I was thanked for my concern and told that  NASA was going to check
it out.   I noticed that he then  spent 11 mins. viewing 
my meteorwrong page.
The evening report included the fact that many persons had phoned in
after the report and some had doubted that it was a real meteorite. He
also include comments from an expert from the Smithsonian Institution that
hot meteorites are extremely rare but possible.
Ron Baalke has not heard of this yet either. If you find out any more
will you  share your info?
Ken Newton - lehigh
 me
--- End Message ---

[meteorite-list] Burnin' Desire

[MARSROX]

Last night and again this morning, the local NBC affiliate has featured a 
"meteorite " that was discovered in Naples, Florida just down the road from 
my town of Fort Myers. Any meteorite from Florida would be especially 
interesting since we only have Bonita Springs H5 (found in an Caloosa Indian 
midden where a 7-11 now exists), Grayton H5 (found on a beach in an Indian 
midden), Okeechobee L4 (probably dredged up when they dug the channel across 
the lake, misspelled in the Cat of Mets as "Okechobee") and Eustis H4 (plowed 
up in a central FLA field- shades of Nebraska!). 

I was alerted to the story by a friend and called the station to talk to the 
reporter. I was told by the receptionist that the specimen(s) had already 
been sent to Tampa for authentication. 

I'm not aware of anybody in Tampa that would know a chondrite from a conch 
shell. Esteemed list member Greg Shanos lives 1/2-way there in Sarasota, 
however. And for an extra dime, they could send the mess to Dave Weir near 
Orlando

The reporter came on the line and told me that:
1. Some of the rocks stuck to a magnet
2. They were burnt and smelled burnt
3. Where they fell they caused a palm tree to catch fire.
4. The rocks were hot when they were picked up
5. The girls that collected the rocks heard a noise from the sky.

The reporter said that she had the rocks in a Tupperware container and hadn't 
sent them off yet. We agreed to meet at a KMart parking lot. 

At 7 tonight, the reporter and her photographer met me for our Tupperware 
party. I looked at the collection of rocks and burnt pieces of palm fronds, 
asked some questions and discovered these facts.

Two girls, age 11 and 14 live with their high-school-age brother and a single 
Mom who works in the tile business. They live in a condo in East Naples. Only 
the Mom was interviewed by the reporter and she called in the secondhand 
report. 

This last Saturday afternoon, a hot and sunny day, the girls were playing 
"Barbie" (the reporter found this a "little unusual" considering the girls 
ages) in their common area. Suddenly they heard a noise (unwitnessed by 
others) and another noise in a cabbage palm tree about 30'/9m away from them 
in a landscaped area. At the base of the palm tree they found burning palm 
pieces (from the palm "boots") that they claimed had been torn off of the 
trees and ignited by the hot burning meteorites they also found under the 
tree. They "stamped out the fire" and collected the palm pieces and rocks 
(hot, but not too hot). They showed them to their Mom and older brother and 
everyone agreed that they were meteorites.or space debris. Notably, and 
to his credit, the older brother has a bedroom full of space memorabilia and 
enjoys looking through his new telescope. 

The reporter called Florida Gulf Coast University and spoke to a Professor 
who said that "Space Debris is extremely common."

And all of this is on TV. 

The rocks were small, relatively light in weight and internally beige 
colored. Under a 10x they exhibited porosity and reflected round crystals. 
They were burnt, and the ash coated my fingers.

"These are most likely coral rock or limestone that were burned in a fire."

Two very small slivers were attached to a magnet. I pulled them off and 
checked them out. They were rusty and probably just construction, not space, 
debris.

One of the palm tree pieces was about 6"/15cm and had a burned end far in 
excess to the tiny size of the collected stones.

The story also appeared on the ABC affiliate, his final verdict - "We'll 
probably never know if these rocks were meteorites."

Yes, we will.

And Moms, don't let your kids play with matches.

Kevin Kichinka

 



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[meteorite-list] Fwd:Ebay Fraud Drama! (What Law?)

[SSachs9056]

Jeannie and List,

1) colin --- or whoever sends you the emails, should seriously consider 
either a spellcheck program or hire a proofreader. Their response was fraught 
with so many spelling errors. I sincerely doubt this person has an advanced 
degree or any degree at all. One can hardly take this individual seriously. 

2) Section 25 of the Slanderous Comments Act(?) Huh? Although I'm not an 
attorney, being in law enforcement for 24 years, I do peruse state and 
federal law bulletins, and statutes from time to time. Uhcolin might want 
to look for another attorney. Nowhere did I find any reference to a 
Slanderous Comments Act. When I first saw the title I even had to smileit 
doesn't even sound all that original !  ;-)

HeySteve Arnoldyou ever hear of that particular statute???   

3) Finally I had to smile again. This person accuses you of selling meteorite 
material for the last ten years under the Irreplaceable Resourse Act. 
Anyone could easily counter that statement and question this person why THEY 
would sell something illegal themselves? Wow!Unbelievable nonsense!

Jeannie, I hope you let this clown really have it...but good. And just 
remember two things:
a) "Consider the source"  
b) "There are more horses asses in this world than there are horses."

Best,

Steven L. Sachs  IMCA# 9210

--- Begin Message ---



Hello list!
 
Well, the drama continues.  I filed a Fraud Complaint 
with Ebay yesterday regarding the "Canyon Diablo Meteorite" which as you all 
know by now, turned out to be iron shale. I have received two responses 
from Judith McCabe/Colin  also known as pahanaswife, bubbamisen, 
and currently j.c.z.inc. on Ebay.  The first was a response to Ebay 
which was forwarded to me through their system: 
 
>Comment Added: Buyer contacted me after 2 months for refund. Item 
sold wasindeed meteorite as listed in the meteoritic encyclopedia 5th issue. 
I am contacting my lawer to consider proceedings for the fraud 
allegation.Slander is another word for it.
 
As I mentioned before in my communication to the list, I 
contacted the seller the day after I received the product in the mail, received 
a nasty reply and my subsequent attempts to contact them were 
ignored.
 
The second comment I received was an email to me directly 
which I received this afternoon.
 
Hi
 My lawer has advised me to start legal proceedings against you for 
the fraud allegation.Which i am very seriously considering. Under section 25 of 
the slanderous comments act( which comes under federal law) i have the right 
because the fraud complaint is a false statement and slanderous against my being 
and integrity. I therefore am considering a class action lawsuit against you 
because of this.
 The material sent to you was as discribed in the auction . There 
was not a mention that it was nickel iron. Furthermore in your own words you 
have admitted selling this material for 10 years. Which under federal law is 
illegal under the ireplacable resourse act.
 I have many paths open to me towards a lawsuit. one being my 
geology degree and my expirience in the field of astrogeology. But not to beat 
around the bush i will sue you for every penny you have.
  
Have a wonderful day
   
colin
 
So, it seems that something finally woke them up!  
:)   
 
I find it interesting that one of the comments in the email 
mentioned that there was nothing that said the material was nickel 
iron.  So, this confirms my previous suspicion that this person knows 
exactly what they are selling , and is deliberately misrepresenting it as Canyon 
Diablo meteorite to get a higher price at auction than what it is actually 
worth.  This one is definitely a "rotton apple". 
 
Just wanted to pass on the latest news to you all, since 
I promised to keep everyone informed about what was going on!
 
Warm regards to you all,
Jeannie
IMCA #9236
The Museum Store/The Nature Source& The Historical 
Research CenterAnchorage, Alaskawww.thenaturesource.com__No 
matter how far you go down the wrong road, turn back.-Turkish 
Proverb
--- End Message ---

Re: [meteorite-list] Sulfide-slag

[Walter Branch]

Hello Bob, Dave, Troy and Everyone,

Interesting meteorwrong you have there.

In Nininger fashion, I have trained my three year old daughter in the fine
art of examining rocks for possible meteorite candidates and one day last
week, when I picked her up from day care, she handed me this "monster rock:"

http://www.branchmeteorites.com/temp/lbr.jpg

This looks a lot like the lbr/slag which Bob and Troy have noted.  I don't
have an image of the inside yet ( I ground it yesterday) but it is not
vesicular, otherwise it looks and lot like your lbr specimen.  Glancing at
the interior reveals that it is definitely NOT a meteorite.  Although it is
slightly magnetic it is "underweight" for a meteorite.

Now, as to the term "monster rock."  There is an old 1950s sci-fi movie
called the Monolith Monsters in which a small town in the California desert
is visited by a meteorite but this meteorite has some rather strange
properties.  It grows vertically when exposed to water and eventually
topples and shatters, thus producing more meteorites, which grow when
exposed to water, etc...  Also, the meteorites have the menacing property of
removing silicon from human skin, thus turning it human victim to stone.
The whole town is threatened but in the end the local state geologist saves
the day.

It is so corny that I love the movie!  My daughter and I call it the
"monster rock" movie and she looks for "monster rocks" wherever she goes.
She loves the movie as much as I do and frequently goes to sleep watching
it!

Rebekah is turning into a 1950's sci-fi film buff, like her dad.  Here are
our terms for some other movies we like:

The Creature from the Black Lagoon = monster claw
It Came from Outer Space = monster eye
War of the Worlds = monster desk lamp
etc...

-Walter


---
Walter Branch, Ph.D.
Branch Meteorites
322 Stephenson Ave., Suite B
Savannah, GA  31405 USA
www.branchmeteorites.com
- Original Message -
From: "David Freeman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Robert Verish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Meteorite-list Meteoritecentral" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sulfide-slag


> Dear Robert and List;
> I have always marveled at the educational value of a good meteorwrong
> and  posts such as Robert's Sulfide-slag are just magnificent sluthing.
> My favorite meteorwrong currently is the 20 pound basalt chunk found
> near a volcanic area that this feller' hauls down to Denver and other
> places, hoping that it is a lunar basaltmights well go big guns!
>
> Thanks for a real educational post Robert! More, More!
> Best,
> Dave Freeman
>
> Robert Verish wrote:
>
> >I apologize for this Off-Topic subject, but I would
> >like to take this opportunity to personally thank Troy
> >Bell, for his efforts in trying to determine the
> >origin of a particular type of meteor-wrong that is
> >commonly seen on eBay.  Troy found his first specimen
> >in the gravel of a parking lot near where he lives in
> >Texas.  When Troy told me that the gravel was a
> >typical "slag", I told him to try and find more of
> >this LBR (Little Black Rock) and to take some samples
> >of the slag gravel.  He found 2 more "little black
> >rocks", which he sent to me, along with samples of the
> >slag gravel.
> >
> >My examination confirmed that the LBRs and the slag
> >have a common origin.  In addition, these LBRs are
> >made from the same material that I have encountered
> >numerous times from people wanting their "meteorites"
> >identified.  And I'm sure many on this List have
> >encountered this, as well.  Lately, a third of the
> >meteor-wrongs that I have encountered are of this
> >"sulfide-rich" material.  Although there appears to be
> >various sources for this material, I have always
> >contended that this was waste material from an ore
> >smelting process [slag].  But now, Troy's observant
> >eye has found the "smoking gun" evidence that confirms
> >that this material is a slag.
> >
> >This confirmation also raises the concern that some of
> >these LBRs could have elevated concentrations of
> >arsenic and lead.
> >
> >The following images show a cut surface of this
> >material.  Because of the above concern, BE ADVISED -
> >to never DRY cut or grind this material, and to treat
> >the cuttings and coolant with caution.
> >
> >Image #1:
> >
> >
> >The interior "looks like" a natural sulfide mineral
> >with a highly specular, metallic luster.  But it is
> >not a metal.  Mostly crystalline with needle-shaped
> >laths (an atypical crystal habit for sulfides).  The
> >exterior has a patina.  Having been exposed to the
> >forces of weathering, and over time, the sulfide-rich
> >rock has formed a black tarnish.
> >
> >Image #2:
> >
> >
> >Close-up of the cut surface. Locally vesicular;
> >cavities will show cleavage for these synthetic
> >(man-made) crysta

[Fwd: Re: Re: [meteorite-list] Hard Disk Crashed !]]

[ROCKS ON FIRE]

Rosie,
I just like to warn possible buyers of the risk involved from buying meteorites.
If your country has signed the UNICEF Removable CulturalHeritage Act
 the article can be confiscated by your local police and sent back to the
country of its origin (in this case, country of find). Offcourse the country
of origin, here Australia, has to ask for the confiscation and request back-sending
of the item.
Just with every little Henbury for instance they probably would not make
the effort.  :-)  But if it is
an item worth a couple of hundred Grands, they will be very tempted.
 :-\ 
This also applies to other things like gold nuggets and opals from a certain
market value.

Cheers and best regards from down-under,
Norbert F. Kammel
IMCA#3420
www.rocksonfire.com

 Original Message 

  

  Subject: 
  Re: Re: [meteorite-list] Hard Disk Crashed !]


  Date: 
  Tue, 4 Jun 2002 20:03:46 -0500


  From: 
  "Rosemary Hackney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


  To: 
  "ROCKS ON FIRE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


  References: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]"><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

  






Hmm this has been on here before.. I think
Matteo  said something about it.  Well.. this guy only needs to sell one.. 
We  discussed the exportation of that item then.
 
Rosie.

  
- Original Message - 
  
From:
ROCKS ON FIRE
  
  
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 7:25  PM
  
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [meteorite-list] HardDisk Crashed !]
  
  
Hi, Folks,
  
I am not trying to throw mud at mycompetitors. 
  
But if  this meteorite  is really a genuine andrare Australian Meteorite
(which I would assume, looking at the asked minimumprice tag), then you
would not get an Export Permit for it. This isrequired for
all Australian Meteorites under the UNICEF Removable CulturalHeritage
Act , (does not apply for Australite Tektites!).
OurMuseums are quite forthcoming and often reluctant to issue a permit
for widelydistributed Australian Meteorites of tghey are not of very
high scientificvalue, which is deeply appreciated. Even thought there
are quite a fewMeteorites you would not get an Export License for. (You
may have to come toAustralia and buy them here and smuggle out of the
country, which is againstthe law!) ;-) 
  
As this chapoffers to sell internationally I certainly wolud ask for
the permit toexport.
  
This clarification is also intended to let you know,it's not me offering
this priceless heavenly gem under a new ID,
 :-P 'cause I am living in Victoria,AUSTRALIA, too.
  
Cheers, and best regards from down-under, the land oflaughter and larrikins,
 :-D
  
Norbert F. Kammel
IMCA#3420
  www.rocksonfire.com
  
  
Original Message 
  

  
Subject: 
Re: [meteorite-list] Hard Disk Crashed !
  
  
Date: 
Tue, 4 Jun 2002 20:21:24 +0200
  
  
From: 
"PolandMET.com" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

  
  
Reply-To: 
"PolandMET.com" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

  
  
Organization: 
PolandMET.com
  
  
To: 

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

  
  
References: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

  

  
  
  
  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1735601002

Wow :))
500g for $285,674.99
This is really cheap !

-[ MARCIN CIMALA ]--[ IMCA#3667 ]-
http://www.meteoryt.net   >   Meteorite Information Center
http://www.polandmet.com  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.studiomc.com.pl[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.vistapro.prv.pl   +GSM (607) 535 195

--
---


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Re: [meteorite-list] Sulfide-slag

[David Freeman]

Dear Robert and List;
I have always marveled at the educational value of a good meteorwrong 
and  posts such as Robert's Sulfide-slag are just magnificent sluthing.  
My favorite meteorwrong currently is the 20 pound basalt chunk found 
near a volcanic area that this feller' hauls down to Denver and other 
places, hoping that it is a lunar basaltmights well go big guns!

Thanks for a real educational post Robert! More, More!
Best,
Dave Freeman

Robert Verish wrote:

>I apologize for this Off-Topic subject, but I would
>like to take this opportunity to personally thank Troy
>Bell, for his efforts in trying to determine the
>origin of a particular type of meteor-wrong that is
>commonly seen on eBay.  Troy found his first specimen
>in the gravel of a parking lot near where he lives in
>Texas.  When Troy told me that the gravel was a
>typical "slag", I told him to try and find more of
>this LBR (Little Black Rock) and to take some samples
>of the slag gravel.  He found 2 more "little black
>rocks", which he sent to me, along with samples of the
>slag gravel.  
>
>My examination confirmed that the LBRs and the slag
>have a common origin.  In addition, these LBRs are
>made from the same material that I have encountered
>numerous times from people wanting their "meteorites"
>identified.  And I'm sure many on this List have
>encountered this, as well.  Lately, a third of the
>meteor-wrongs that I have encountered are of this
>"sulfide-rich" material.  Although there appears to be
>various sources for this material, I have always
>contended that this was waste material from an ore
>smelting process [slag].  But now, Troy's observant
>eye has found the "smoking gun" evidence that confirms
>that this material is a slag.
>
>This confirmation also raises the concern that some of
>these LBRs could have elevated concentrations of
>arsenic and lead.  
>
>The following images show a cut surface of this
>material.  Because of the above concern, BE ADVISED -
>to never DRY cut or grind this material, and to treat
>the cuttings and coolant with caution.
>
>Image #1:
>
>
>The interior "looks like" a natural sulfide mineral
>with a highly specular, metallic luster.  But it is
>not a metal.  Mostly crystalline with needle-shaped
>laths (an atypical crystal habit for sulfides).  The
>exterior has a patina.  Having been exposed to the
>forces of weathering, and over time, the sulfide-rich
>rock has formed a black tarnish.
>
>Image #2:
>
>
>Close-up of the cut surface. Locally vesicular;
>cavities will show cleavage for these synthetic
>(man-made) crystals. There are some inclusions of
>melted silicates.
>
>As mentioned earlier, this kind of meteor-wrong has
>long been seen on eBay, but typically being auctioned
>as "Arizona ?? Meteorite"!! 
>I couldn't find any current "meteorite" auction like
>this, but this "mineral" auction looks like the same
>kind of material, but without the black tarnish:
>
>
>
>Now that it has been identified, my curiosity about
>this material has been satisfied, and I will now move
>on to the next "mystery rock" (hopefully, it will be a
>real meteorite;-).  But in the meanwhile, it may prove
>beneficial (since this stuff is so widespread) to have
>this "identified" material on a meteor-wrong web page
>in order to educate future meteor-wrong sellers.
>
>Bob V.
>
>
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>



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[meteorite-list] Odessa Crater Contest

[Robert Verish]

-Original Message-
From: John Gwilliam
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 5:29 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [meteorite-list] Odessa Crater Contest


After reading the article posted by Ron Baalke about
the proposed salvaging of the Odessa Crater site, I
decided to have a simple contest.
I have 5 extra brochures from the Odessa Crater that I
will give to the first five people who correctly
answer the following questions.

***

1. Who is considered the "King of Odessa meteorite
hunters?

2. Two list members successfully hunted for meteorites
at Odessa over 35
years ago. Name them.

3. The Odessa Crater is located just south of Highway
80 between the city
of Odessa and what other famous meteorite city?

Good Luck!

Best,

John Gwilliam
__

[meteorite-list] Odessa Crater Contest 

Rhett Bourland [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:38:13 -0500 

1.  James Williams.
2.  Richard Norton and Ron Hartman (who met his wife
after hunting there one
day if I remember correctly).
3.  Monahans.

Rhett Bourland

-

Darn it!!

This was the first contest that I knew the
"answers":-(

Hey John?
Can I get, at least, ONE of Brett's "5 extra
brochures" 
??
;-)
BobV.

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Re: Re: [meteorite-list] Hard Disk Crashed !]

[Rosemary Hackney]

Hmm this has been on here before.. I think Matteo 
said something about it.  Well.. this guy only needs to sell one..  We 
discussed the exportation of that item then.
 
Rosie.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ROCKS ON FIRE 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 7:25 
PM
  Subject: [Fwd: Re: [meteorite-list] Hard 
  Disk Crashed !]
  Hi, Folks,I am not trying to throw mud at my 
  competitors. But if  this meteorite  is really a genuine and 
  rare Australian Meteorite (which I would assume, looking at the asked minimum 
  price tag), then you would not get an Export Permit for it. This is 
  required for all Australian Meteorites under the UNICEF Removable Cultural 
  Heritage Act , (does not apply for Australite Tektites!).Our 
  Museums are quite forthcoming and often reluctant to issue a permit for widely 
  distributed Australian Meteorites of tghey are not of very high scientific 
  value, which is deeply appreciated. Even thought there are quite a few 
  Meteorites you would not get an Export License for. (You may have to come to 
  Australia and buy them here and smuggle out of the country, which is against 
  the law!) ;-) As this chap 
  offers to sell internationally I certainly wolud ask for the permit to 
  export.This clarification is also intended to let you know, 
  it's not me offering this priceless heavenly gem under a new ID, :-P 'cause I am living in Victoria, 
  AUSTRALIA, too.Cheers, and best regards from down-under, the land of 
  laughter and larrikins, :-D 
  Norbert F. KammelIMCA#3420www.rocksonfire.com 
  Original Message  
  


  Subject: 
  Re: [meteorite-list] Hard Disk Crashed !

  Date: 
  Tue, 4 Jun 2002 20:21:24 +0200

  From: 
  "PolandMET.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

  Reply-To: 
  "PolandMET.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

  Organization: 
  PolandMET.com

  To: 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

  References: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]"><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]"><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1735601002

Wow :))
500g for $285,674.99
This is really cheap !

-[ MARCIN CIMALA ]--[ IMCA#3667 ]-
http://www.meteoryt.net   >   Meteorite Information Center
http://www.polandmet.com  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.studiomc.com.pl[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.vistapro.prv.pl   +GSM (607) 535 195
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Re: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey Succesfully Deploys GRS Boom

[Rosemary Hackney]

lol  Ron... wait until they try to land...

Rosie
- Original Message - 
From: "Ron Baalke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Meteorite Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 7:44 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey Succesfully Deploys GRS Boom


> 
> 
> MEDIA RELATIONS OFFICE
> JET PROPULSION LABORATORY
> CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
> NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION
> PASADENA, CALIF. 91109. TELEPHONE (818) 354-5011
> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov
> 
> Mars Odyssey Mission Status
> June 4, 2002
> 
> Flight controllers for NASA's Mars Odyssey spacecraft completed 
> the last major technical milestone today in support of the 
> science mission by unfurling the boom that holds the gamma ray 
> spectrometer sensor head instrument.
> 
> Engineers at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., 
> received confirmation from the spacecraft that the 6.2-meter 
> (20-foot) boom was successfully deployed at noon Pacific time. 
> 
> The gamma sensor head is part of the gamma ray spectrometer 
> suite. It sits at the end of the boom to minimize interference 
> from any gamma rays coming from the spacecraft itself. The two 
> other gamma ray spectrometer instruments, the neutron 
> spectrometer and the high-energy neutron detector, are mounted 
> on the main spacecraft structure.
> 
> During the past few months, while the boom was in the stowed 
> position, the instrument suite has provided significant 
> information about the hydrogen abundance on Mars.  This allowed 
> scientists to conclude there are large quantities of water ice 
> just below the surface.  
> 
> "Deploying the boom enhances the sensitivity and accuracy of the 
> gamma ray spectrometer instrument and will improve the accuracy 
> of the hydrogen measurements," said Dr. William Boynton, 
> principal investigator for Odyssey's gamma ray spectrometer suite 
> at the University of Arizona, Tucson.  Now the instrument will 
> begin measuring many other important elements such as iron, 
> aluminum, potassium, chlorine, thorium, uranium and others. 
> 
> "Today's deployment is a continuation of the excellent 
> performance of this flight team. They have done an outstanding 
> job," said Roger Gibbs, Odyssey's project manager at JPL. "I 
> look forward to many exciting discoveries to come as we continue 
> our mission." 
> 
> JPL manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of 
> Space Science, Washington, D.C. Principal investigators at 
> Arizona State University in Tempe, the University of Arizona in 
> Tucson, and NASA's Johnson Space Center, Houston, operate the 
> science instruments. Additional science investigators are 
> located at the Russian Space Research Institute and Los Alamos 
> National Laboratories, New Mexico. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, 
> Denver, is the prime contractor for the project, and developed and 
> built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from 
> Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California 
> Institute of Technology in Pasadena.  
> 
> # # # # #
> 
> 
> __
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> 


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[meteorite-list] Fw: 88 Ebay Auctions & Cottingham Collection INFO....

[Michael Cottingham]

 
- Original Message - 
From: Michael 
Cottingham 
To: Michael Cottingham 
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 6:45 PM
Subject: 88 Ebay Auctions & Cottingham Collection 
INFO

Hello Everyone,
 
 
I have 88 AWESOME Ebay Auctions now 
Listed!
 
Go To:
 
http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 
 
Also, THANKS to Everyone who have helped me 
to thin my collection a bit  Over 100 specimens have found new 
homes!!!   
 
PLEASE NOTE!   I will be closing my 
collection to public
thinning this weekso if you wanted something 
please check in.  
 
 
Thanks & Best Wishes
 
Michael Cottingham

[meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey Succesfully Deploys GRS Boom

[Ron Baalke]

MEDIA RELATIONS OFFICE
JET PROPULSION LABORATORY
CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION
PASADENA, CALIF. 91109. TELEPHONE (818) 354-5011
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov

Mars Odyssey Mission Status
June 4, 2002

Flight controllers for NASA's Mars Odyssey spacecraft completed 
the last major technical milestone today in support of the 
science mission by unfurling the boom that holds the gamma ray 
spectrometer sensor head instrument.

Engineers at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., 
received confirmation from the spacecraft that the 6.2-meter 
(20-foot) boom was successfully deployed at noon Pacific time. 

The gamma sensor head is part of the gamma ray spectrometer 
suite. It sits at the end of the boom to minimize interference 
from any gamma rays coming from the spacecraft itself. The two 
other gamma ray spectrometer instruments, the neutron 
spectrometer and the high-energy neutron detector, are mounted 
on the main spacecraft structure.

During the past few months, while the boom was in the stowed 
position, the instrument suite has provided significant 
information about the hydrogen abundance on Mars.  This allowed 
scientists to conclude there are large quantities of water ice 
just below the surface.  

"Deploying the boom enhances the sensitivity and accuracy of the 
gamma ray spectrometer instrument and will improve the accuracy 
of the hydrogen measurements," said Dr. William Boynton, 
principal investigator for Odyssey's gamma ray spectrometer suite 
at the University of Arizona, Tucson.  Now the instrument will 
begin measuring many other important elements such as iron, 
aluminum, potassium, chlorine, thorium, uranium and others. 

"Today's deployment is a continuation of the excellent 
performance of this flight team. They have done an outstanding 
job," said Roger Gibbs, Odyssey's project manager at JPL. "I 
look forward to many exciting discoveries to come as we continue 
our mission." 

JPL manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of 
Space Science, Washington, D.C. Principal investigators at 
Arizona State University in Tempe, the University of Arizona in 
Tucson, and NASA's Johnson Space Center, Houston, operate the 
science instruments. Additional science investigators are 
located at the Russian Space Research Institute and Los Alamos 
National Laboratories, New Mexico. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, 
Denver, is the prime contractor for the project, and developed and 
built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from 
Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California 
Institute of Technology in Pasadena.  

# # # # #


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Re: [meteorite-list] Odessa Crater Contest

[MARK BOSTICK]

Hello All,    While I did know the answers since Rhett gave them to all I will add that Richard Norton and Ron Hartman were the first to use modern metal detectors to search the crater.     The adventure and an at the time photo can be found in Rocks from Space (as I'm sure many of you know).  Hartman also I believe still has pieces from the 7lb he is holding is a photo in RFS for sale.  Give Hartman credit here for not asking any premium price for the slices and endcuts.     Mark  - Original Message - From: Rhett Bourland Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 5:43 PM To: John Gwilliam; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Odessa Crater Contest  1.  James Williams.2.  Richard Norton and Ron Hartman (who met his wife after hunting there oneday if I remember correctly).3.  Monahans.Rhett Bourlandwww.asteroidmodels.comwww.asteroidmodels.com/personalwww.meteoritecollectors.org-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of JohnGwilliamSent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 5:29 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [meteorite-list] Odessa Crater ContestAfter reading the article posted by Ron Baalke about the proposed salvagingof the Odessa Crater site, I decided to have a simple contest.I have 5 extra brochures from the Odessa Crater that I will give to thefirst five people who correctly answer the following questions.*1. Who is considered the "King of Odessa meteorite hunters?2. Two list members successfully hunted for meteorites at Odessa over 35years ago. Name them.3. The Odessa Crater is located just south of Highway 80 between the cityof Odessa and what other famous meteorite city?Good Luck!Best,John Gwilliam__Meteorite-list mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list__Meteorite-list mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] Odessa Crater Site Finally Getting Respect It Deserves

[John Gwilliam]

This is great news...and it's long past due.

Over the past five years, I have stopped and visited the crater several 
times when traveling through that part of Texas.  The area surrounding the 
crater is quite literally, a garbage dump.  Needless to say, it was a 
depressing thing to witness firsthand.  Most of the locals I talked to when 
asking for directions to the crater weren't even aware there was a crater 
nearby.  Hopefully all that will change now.

John


At 12:42 PM 6/4/02 -0700, Ron Baalke wrote:


>http://www.mywesttexas.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=2288&dept_id=475621&newsid=431 
>9596&PAG=461&rfi=9
>
>Odessa crater site finally getting respect it deserves
>By Tumbleweed Smith
>Midland Reporter-Telegram
>June 3, 2002
>
>ODESSA, TEXAS - State legislator Buddy West is responsible for passing a
>bill to create a museum and visitors' center at the meteor crater site.
>
>Finally. That big crater just outside Odessa is getting a little respect.
>State legislator Buddy West is responsible for passing a bill to create a
>museum and visitors' center at the site, complete with living quarters for a
>curator.
>
>For years the crater has been advertised in Chamber of Commerce literature,
>on highway signs and by an occasional newspaper or magazine article. But few
>people ever go there. For one thing, the highway signs don't give good
>directions. The crater is in an isolated oil patch down a small road 15
>miles southwest of Odessa. And who's interested in meteor craters, anyway?
>
>Tom Rodman is. He's an Odessa attorney who is the major spokesman for the
>crater. He has been fascinated with the geological wonder since boyhood
>because he's interested in things from outer space.
>
>"Flying through the air it's a meteor. When it comes to rest on the earth,
>it's a meteorite," said Tom.
>
>Odessa's crater is the second largest meteor crater in the world. Arizona
>has one larger. "Both places contribute more meteorites than any other
>locations in the world," he said.
>
>He said the meteor could have hit the earth 50,000 years ago.
>
>"It weighed about 70 tons and was the size of a small car. It impacted the
>earth with such force and released so much energy that the resulting heat
>and explosion completely vaporized the main mass of the meteorite. It had
>more energy than the atom bomb dropped on Hiroshima. Anything within a few
>miles would have been destroyed."
>
>It made a crater 500 feet wide and 100 feet deep. The University of Texas
>excavated the site in the late 1930s, thinking a huge chunk of the meteorite
>might be buried. But only small fragments were found.
>
>Limestone rocks form the rim of the depression, which over the years has
>been filled in with sand and silt. Tom helped construct rock-lined caliche
>paths around the crater. He spends countless hours at the site and wonders
>why others don't have the same boyish enthusiasm for it as he does. Tom said
>scientists believe some meteorites came from the moon or Mars.
>
>A small museum was built at the crater site in 1963 but people were breaking
>into it and stealing the valuable, irreplaceable meteorites inside. The
>museum was closed and the collection of meteorites was moved to the Ector
>County library. The new museum has added more meteorites collected from
>several sources.
>
>The site was discovered in the 1920s when a rancher found a fist-sized
>metallic rock, composed mostly of iron and nickel. One astronomer said it
>came from the core of a planet that had to be about 4 billion years old and
>several hundred miles in diameter, creating speculation that the planet may
>have exploded, sending debris into the universe.
>
>"You wonder what it must have been like when it hit. You also wonder what
>destruction would have occurred had it hit in modern times," said Tom.
>
>-- -- --
>
>Tumbleweed Smith is a Big Spring storyteller and folklorist.
>
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[meteorite-list] Sulfide-slag

[Robert Verish]

I apologize for this Off-Topic subject, but I would
like to take this opportunity to personally thank Troy
Bell, for his efforts in trying to determine the
origin of a particular type of meteor-wrong that is
commonly seen on eBay.  Troy found his first specimen
in the gravel of a parking lot near where he lives in
Texas.  When Troy told me that the gravel was a
typical "slag", I told him to try and find more of
this LBR (Little Black Rock) and to take some samples
of the slag gravel.  He found 2 more "little black
rocks", which he sent to me, along with samples of the
slag gravel.  

My examination confirmed that the LBRs and the slag
have a common origin.  In addition, these LBRs are
made from the same material that I have encountered
numerous times from people wanting their "meteorites"
identified.  And I'm sure many on this List have
encountered this, as well.  Lately, a third of the
meteor-wrongs that I have encountered are of this
"sulfide-rich" material.  Although there appears to be
various sources for this material, I have always
contended that this was waste material from an ore
smelting process [slag].  But now, Troy's observant
eye has found the "smoking gun" evidence that confirms
that this material is a slag.

This confirmation also raises the concern that some of
these LBRs could have elevated concentrations of
arsenic and lead.  

The following images show a cut surface of this
material.  Because of the above concern, BE ADVISED -
to never DRY cut or grind this material, and to treat
the cuttings and coolant with caution.

Image #1:


The interior "looks like" a natural sulfide mineral
with a highly specular, metallic luster.  But it is
not a metal.  Mostly crystalline with needle-shaped
laths (an atypical crystal habit for sulfides).  The
exterior has a patina.  Having been exposed to the
forces of weathering, and over time, the sulfide-rich
rock has formed a black tarnish.

Image #2:


Close-up of the cut surface. Locally vesicular;
cavities will show cleavage for these synthetic
(man-made) crystals. There are some inclusions of
melted silicates.

As mentioned earlier, this kind of meteor-wrong has
long been seen on eBay, but typically being auctioned
as "Arizona ?? Meteorite"!! 
I couldn't find any current "meteorite" auction like
this, but this "mineral" auction looks like the same
kind of material, but without the black tarnish:



Now that it has been identified, my curiosity about
this material has been satisfied, and I will now move
on to the next "mystery rock" (hopefully, it will be a
real meteorite;-).  But in the meanwhile, it may prove
beneficial (since this stuff is so widespread) to have
this "identified" material on a meteor-wrong web page
in order to educate future meteor-wrong sellers.

Bob V.


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[Fwd: Re: [meteorite-list] Hard Disk Crashed !]

[ROCKS ON FIRE]

Hi, Folks,

I am not trying to throw mud at my competitors. 

But if  this meteorite  is really a genuine and rare Australian Meteorite
(which I would assume, looking at the asked minimum price tag), then you
would not get an Export Permit for it. This is required for all
Australian Meteorites under the UNICEF Removable Cultural Heritage Act
, (does not apply for Australite Tektites!).
Our Museums are quite forthcoming and often reluctant to issue a permit for
widely distributed Australian Meteorites of tghey are not of very high scientific
value, which is deeply appreciated. Even thought there are quite a few Meteorites
you would not get an Export License for. (You may have to come to Australia
and buy them here and smuggle out of the country, which is against the law!)
 ;-) 

As this chap offers to sell internationally I certainly wolud ask for
the permit to export.

This clarification is also intended to let you know, it's not me offering
this priceless heavenly gem under a new ID,
 :-P  'cause I am living in Victoria, AUSTRALIA, too.

Cheers, and best regards from down-under, the land of laughter and larrikins,
 :-D 

Norbert F. Kammel
IMCA#3420
www.rocksonfire.com

 Original Message 

  

  Subject: 
  Re: [meteorite-list] Hard Disk Crashed !


  Date: 
  Tue, 4 Jun 2002 20:21:24 +0200


  From: 
  "PolandMET.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


  Reply-To: 
  "PolandMET.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


  Organization: 
  PolandMET.com


  To: 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


  References: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]"><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]"><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

  



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1735601002

Wow :))
500g for $285,674.99
This is really cheap !

-[ MARCIN CIMALA ]--[ IMCA#3667 ]-
http://www.meteoryt.net   >   Meteorite Information Center
http://www.polandmet.com  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.studiomc.com.pl[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.vistapro.prv.pl   +GSM (607) 535 195
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RE: [meteorite-list] Odessa Crater Contest

[Rhett Bourland]

1.  James Williams.
2.  Richard Norton and Ron Hartman (who met his wife after hunting there one
day if I remember correctly).
3.  Monahans.

Rhett Bourland
www.asteroidmodels.com
www.asteroidmodels.com/personal
www.meteoritecollectors.org

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of John
Gwilliam
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 5:29 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [meteorite-list] Odessa Crater Contest


After reading the article posted by Ron Baalke about the proposed salvaging
of the Odessa Crater site, I decided to have a simple contest.
I have 5 extra brochures from the Odessa Crater that I will give to the
first five people who correctly answer the following questions.

*

1. Who is considered the "King of Odessa meteorite hunters?

2. Two list members successfully hunted for meteorites at Odessa over 35
years ago. Name them.

3. The Odessa Crater is located just south of Highway 80 between the city
of Odessa and what other famous meteorite city?

Good Luck!

Best,

John Gwilliam


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[meteorite-list] Odessa Crater Contest

[John Gwilliam]

After reading the article posted by Ron Baalke about the proposed salvaging 
of the Odessa Crater site, I decided to have a simple contest.
I have 5 extra brochures from the Odessa Crater that I will give to the 
first five people who correctly answer the following questions.

*

1. Who is considered the "King of Odessa meteorite hunters?

2. Two list members successfully hunted for meteorites at Odessa over 35 
years ago. Name them.

3. The Odessa Crater is located just south of Highway 80 between the city 
of Odessa and what other famous meteorite city?

Good Luck!

Best,

John Gwilliam


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[meteorite-list] Non- meteoric spam

[Tracy Latimer]

Has anyone else lately noticed an increase in the spam they're receiving
on the email site they use for their meteorite-list mail?  As of about 9
months ago, I started using different email accounts for all my commercial
use (Ebay, any replies I made to online offers, etc.) because I had
noticed an upswing in the spam I was receiving.  The spam went mostly away
until about 3 months ago.  Now a third of the mail I am getting on my
"invitation only" email box is ads for Viagra, free junk if I will just
fill out a simple marketing survey/respond to this ad, and other
unsolicited crap again.

I don't mind the occasional ad for "Meteorite Thursday" et.al. (sorry,
Dean! ;-) but the rest of the stuff is just annoying.

Tracy Latimer


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Re: [meteorite-list] Matt's article

[Tracy Latimer]

No, Bernd, I didn't even realize that the cut-off slice was pasted right
over top of some text.  My browser only shows me the top half of the
image, and won't go down any further.

Tracy Latimer

On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, Bernd Pauli HD wrote:

> Hello All!
> 
> Am I the only one who is having problems with Matt's article about "The
> Songyuan Meteorites" in the June issue of Meteorite Times? The picture
> of the cut slice is superimposed on the text underneath.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Bernd
> 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Contest #4 - Meteorites are Educational Because....

[S.Singletary]

Meteorites are educational because they allow the teacher to capture the 
imagination of the student.  A physicist can slide a block of wood down a 
ramp, a chemist can make red water turn blue and back again, a 
mathematician can give you long formulas and explain the world with much 
rigor, but a teacher with a meteorite can do what no other can.  A teacher 
with a meteorite can put in a student's hand: a piece of the oldest 
material known, a witness to the creation of the Earth, a rock that has 
fallen from heaven, a piece of an ancient star that exploded, a piece of 
Mars or a piece of the Moon.  Meteorites are educational because they can 
quiet a room full of rowdy fourth and fifth grade students and turn Jr. 
high school teenagers from apathetic and angst filled inmates into 
attentive and inquisitive students.   I say to other educators - "take your 
block, your acid and your equations and do what you will.  I will send you 
students eager to learn each of your fields with one stone from the sky"


This is why I have chosen to study meteorites  :)
Steven


Steven Singletary
54-1224
Dept. Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences
M.I.T.
Cambridge, MA 02139
Tel - 617.253.6398
Fax - 617.253.7102


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[meteorite-list] Odessa Crater Site Finally Getting Respect It Deserves

[Ron Baalke]

http://www.mywesttexas.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=2288&dept_id=475621&newsid=4319596&PAG=461&rfi=9

Odessa crater site finally getting respect it deserves 
By Tumbleweed Smith
Midland Reporter-Telegram 
June 3, 2002

ODESSA, TEXAS - State legislator Buddy West is responsible for passing a 
bill to create a museum and visitors' center at the meteor crater site.

Finally. That big crater just outside Odessa is getting a little respect.
State legislator Buddy West is responsible for passing a bill to create a
museum and visitors' center at the site, complete with living quarters for a
curator.

For years the crater has been advertised in Chamber of Commerce literature,
on highway signs and by an occasional newspaper or magazine article. But few
people ever go there. For one thing, the highway signs don't give good
directions. The crater is in an isolated oil patch down a small road 15
miles southwest of Odessa. And who's interested in meteor craters, anyway?

Tom Rodman is. He's an Odessa attorney who is the major spokesman for the
crater. He has been fascinated with the geological wonder since boyhood
because he's interested in things from outer space.

"Flying through the air it's a meteor. When it comes to rest on the earth,
it's a meteorite," said Tom.

Odessa's crater is the second largest meteor crater in the world. Arizona
has one larger. "Both places contribute more meteorites than any other
locations in the world," he said.

He said the meteor could have hit the earth 50,000 years ago.

"It weighed about 70 tons and was the size of a small car. It impacted the
earth with such force and released so much energy that the resulting heat
and explosion completely vaporized the main mass of the meteorite. It had
more energy than the atom bomb dropped on Hiroshima. Anything within a few
miles would have been destroyed."

It made a crater 500 feet wide and 100 feet deep. The University of Texas
excavated the site in the late 1930s, thinking a huge chunk of the meteorite
might be buried. But only small fragments were found.

Limestone rocks form the rim of the depression, which over the years has
been filled in with sand and silt. Tom helped construct rock-lined caliche
paths around the crater. He spends countless hours at the site and wonders
why others don't have the same boyish enthusiasm for it as he does. Tom said
scientists believe some meteorites came from the moon or Mars.

A small museum was built at the crater site in 1963 but people were breaking
into it and stealing the valuable, irreplaceable meteorites inside. The
museum was closed and the collection of meteorites was moved to the Ector
County library. The new museum has added more meteorites collected from
several sources.

The site was discovered in the 1920s when a rancher found a fist-sized
metallic rock, composed mostly of iron and nickel. One astronomer said it
came from the core of a planet that had to be about 4 billion years old and
several hundred miles in diameter, creating speculation that the planet may
have exploded, sending debris into the universe.

"You wonder what it must have been like when it hit. You also wonder what
destruction would have occurred had it hit in modern times," said Tom.

-- -- --

Tumbleweed Smith is a Big Spring storyteller and folklorist.

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Re: [meteorite-list] Matt's article

[Bernd Pauli HD]

Paul Harris wrote:

> I just added a line break above and below the pictures.
> Please see if that takes care of the problem. If not
> e mail me directly. Also what browser do you use?

> If anyone else detects any formatting problems in
> any of the articles please e mail the problem and
> your browser + version to me.

David Weir wrote:

> I tried three different browsers and none had the problem you
> described for Matt's article. However, I had that same problem
> with the bio of Geoff Notkin when using Netscape 6.1, but not
> with Netscape Comm 4.61 or with Internet Explorer. I guess it's
> just the browser, maybe try a different one. Which one are you
> using?


Hello Paul, David, List,

It really seems to be a browser problem. I use Netscape Comm 4.7
I just tried my Microsoft Internet Explorer which does not have that
problem with Matt's article.

Thank you for your help and advice!

Sincerely,

Bernd

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Re: [meteorite-list] Matt's article

[Paul Harris]

Hello Bernd!

I just added an line break above and below the pictures.
Please see if that takes care of the problem. If not
e mail me directly.  Also what browser do you use?

If anyone else detects any formatting problems in 
any of the articles please e mail the problem and
your browser + version to me.

Thank you!

Paul

At 08:28 PM 6/4/2002 +0200, you wrote:
>Hello All!
>
>Am I the only one who is having problems with Matt's article about "The
>Songyuan Meteorites" in the June issue of Meteorite Times? The picture
>of the cut slice is superimposed on the text underneath.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Bernd
>
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>


  Paul Harris   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Jim Tobin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  The Meteorite Exchange, Inc.  http://www.meteorite.com
  MeteoriteTimes.com Magazine http://www.meteoritetimes.com   
  PMB#455 P.O. Box 7000, Redondo Beach, CA 90277 USA
  FAX Number(310) 316-1032



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[meteorite-list] Kaali meteorite - Estonia, 400BC?

[Robert & Wendi Beauford]

An Estonian friend of mine has mentioned this crater several times.
Apparently it was a favorite swimming hole when she was a child.
-Robert Beauford   : )

> Subject: [meteorite-list] Re:Kaali meteorite - Estonia, 400BC?
>
> Hi all -
>
> If anyone has MAPS at hand, I would be most interested
> in the citations of Tacitus and Pytheas.
>
> best wishes -
> ep
>
>
> --- Bernd Pauli HD
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > > Doing some research for a radio slot, and am
> > intrigued by the "Kaali"
> > > meteorite which fell in Estonia around 400BC; in
> > the brief net
> > > searches I've done so far I've found intriguing
> > references to the Sun
> > > being blocked out by the impact, localised
> > environmental devastation
> > > and even "human casualties"... Couple of websites
> > say that there's a
> > > large crater in Estonia, and several (as many as
> > 8?) smaller craters
> > > nearby, but am just wondering if anyone out there
> > has any more
> > > specific info about this impact? Thanks in advance
> > for all info /
> > > help, Stu
> >
> > Hello Stu and List,
> >
> > Here are two scientifically reliable references:
> >
> > RASMUSSEN K.L. et al. (2000) The age of the
> > Kaalijärv meteorite
> > craters (MAPS 35-5, 2000, pp. 1067-1071, excerpt):
> >
> > 400-370 B.C. at  ± 1o / The nine Kaalijärv craters
> > on the Estonian
> > island of Saaremaa (Ösel) were caused by the impact
> > of a fragmented IAB
> > iron meteorite, of which several masses have been
> > recovered totalling
> > about 2.5 kg. The largest piece recovered so far
> > weighs 38.4 gr (Raukas
> > et al., 1999).
> >
> > VESKI S. et al. (2001) Ecological catastrophe in
> > connection with the
> > impact of the Kaali Meteorite about 800-400 BC on
> > the island of
> > Saaremaa, Estonia (MAPS 36-10, 2001 pp. 1367-1375,
> > excerpt):
> >
> > About 800-400 B.C. a meteoroid hit a then relatively
> > densely populated
> > island, forming the Kaali meteorite impact craters.
> > Unfortunately the
> > people living at that time on the island of Saaremaa
> > were illiterate and
> > we have no direct written record of the impact
> > event. Indirect written
> > historical records interpreted as describing the
> > Kaali meteorite blast
> > event come from Tacitus (1942) and Pytheas from
> > Massalia.
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Bernd



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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Books and Quotes

[Walter Branch]

Hello Everyone (again),
 
No, it wasn't Steve Schoner who wrote the quote I 
mentioned earlier (though it does sound a lot like Steve)!!!
 
Just picking Steve :-)
 
No winner as yet!
 
-Walter
---Walter Branch, 
Ph.D.Branch Meteorites322 Stephenson Ave., Suite BSavannah, GA  
31405 USAwww.branchmeteorites.com

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Walter 
  Branch 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 8:23 
AM
  Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Books 
  and Quotes
  
  Hello Everyone,
   
  I am preparing another list of meteorite books 
  (all at free shipping) and I thought the following passage was mildly 
  interesting.  I will give a 10% discount to the first person who can tell 
  me who wrote this and when he or she wrote it:
   
  "On account of the halo which naturally surrounds 
  an object of such mysterious origin, meteorites have been eagerly sought by 
  collectors - so eagerly, indeed, that stones and irons have been divided and 
  subdivided to a degree bordering on the absurd and far removed from 
  scientific.  The desire on the part of collectors to secure 
  representatives of the fullest possible number of falls has not only led them 
  to bid prices high but has caused a stone - if only of moderate size - to be 
  broken into bits so widely distributed that it has been impossible in later 
  years to secure enough for study.  Catalogs of collections have been 
  printed in which certain rare falls were represented by fragments weighing but 
  0.1 or 0.2 gram or a little larger than the point of an ordinary lead 
  pencil.  Prices have soared accordingly and instances may be cited in 
  which five to ten dollars a gram has been paid.  The small meteorite 
  which fell in Kilbourn, Wisconsin (Plate 40), in 1911, and passed through a 
  board in the roof of a barn, sold as high as seven dollars a gram, largely on 
  this account, as it was a stone of a common chondritic type.  Obviously a 
  meteorite has no actual value and these prices are not only wholly artificial 
  and unscientific, but silly.  It should be added that this condition is 
  due largely to the mere collector rather than the serious student.  
  Ambitious heads of departments on our public museums are, however, by no means 
  blameless."
   
  Okay, who was it?
   
  Best wishes,
   
  -Walter 
  ---Walter Branch, 
  Ph.D.Branch Meteorites322 Stephenson Ave., Suite BSavannah, 
  GA  31405 USAwww.branchmeteorites.com

[meteorite-list] Kaalijärv - Part 1 of 2

[Bernd Pauli HD]

"E.P. Grondine" wrote:

> If anyone has MAPS at hand, I would be most
> interested in the citations of Tacitus and Pytheas.

Hi E.P. and List,

VESKI S. et al. (2001) Ecological catastrophe in connection with the
impact of the Kaali Meteorite about 800-400 BC on the island of
Saaremaa, Estonia (MAPS 36-10, 2001 pp. 1367-1375, excerpt):

Indirect written evidence of the impact age has been investigated by
Meri (1976). Meri analyzed the voyage of Pytheas from Massalia
(Marseilles), who between 350–325 B.C. visited Britain and possibly also
the island of Saaremaa (Ultima Thule) to get information on the Baltic
Sea (Metuonis) and its amber. Pytheas wrote in his book on the "Earth
Sea" —"the barbarian showed me the grave where the Sun fell dead". The
same metaphor was repeated in the epic "Argonautics" of Rhodos
Appolonios (295–215 B.C.) where a sailor found a "deep lake in the far
north—the burial of the Sun, from which still fog rose as from the
glowing wound." This gave Meri (1976) the reason to suggest that Lake
Kaali and the meteorite catastrophe were known among the geographers and
philosophers before Cornelius Tacitus, who in his book De Origine et
Situ Germanorum Liber wrote "Upon the right of the Suevian Sea [the
Baltic] the Aestyan nations [Estonians] reside, who use the same customs
and attire with the Suevians [Swedes]. They worship the Mother of the
Gods." (Tacitus, 1942). The Mother of Gods, Cybele, is associated with
meteorites (Burke, 1986). The island of Saaremaa has been inhabited
since the Mesolithic (5800 B.C.; Kriiska, 2000). During the Neolithic
and Bronze Age, Saaremaa was densely populated; indeed, half of the
bronze artefacts of Estonia come from this island (Ligi, 1992). Three
Late Bronze Age fortified settlements (Asva, Ridala and Kaali) are known
from Saaremaa (Aaloe et al., 1977). The main economy was cattle rearing
and agriculture. Archaeological evidence around, inside, and on the
Kaali crater slopes suggests human habitation since 700–500 B.C.
(Lõugas, 1978). This conclusion is based on artifacts and a radiocarbon
date of 2320 ± 40 14C years B.P. (410–350 B.C.) from an archaeological
setting (a stronghold) on the crater rim. In this context it is
interesting to point out that the fortified settlement of Asva (20 km
east from the main crater) burned down according to the radiocarbon
dating of charcoal from a ?30 cm charred settlement layer between 2585 ±
50 and 2520 ± 60 14C years B.P. (800–400 B.C.; Aaloe et al., 1977),
which is close to the age of the Kaali impact (Rasmussen et al., 2000).

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[meteorite-list] Matt's article

[Bernd Pauli HD]

Hello All!

Am I the only one who is having problems with Matt's article about "The
Songyuan Meteorites" in the June issue of Meteorite Times? The picture
of the cut slice is superimposed on the text underneath.

Best regards,

Bernd

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[meteorite-list] Kaalijärv - Part 2 of 2

[Bernd Pauli HD]

"E.P. Grondine" wrote:

> If anyone has MAPS at hand, I would be most
> interested in the citations of Tacitus and Pytheas.


Hi again!

RASMUSSEN K.L. et al. (2000) The age of the Kaalijärv
meteorite craters (MAPS 35-5, 2000, pp. 1067-1071):

Apart from radiocarbon dating a Holocene meteorite crater precisely,
this crater and its age are interesting from a historical point of view.
The Roman historian Tacitus is widely known for his description of the
Germanic tribes, that is, those Europeans living north and east of the
Roman frontier, called the Limes. In his work Germanica, Tacitus wrote
in A.D. 98 that:

On the right (Eastern) side of the Swedish Ocean live the Estonians,
their habits and clothings are similar to the Suedes, but their language
is nearer to English. They worship the mother of gods. ("matrem deum
venerantur") (Tacitus 98).

In Greek and Roman mythology, the mother of gods is usually identified
with the Phrygian goddess Cybele (see Simon, 1997). The Cybele cult at
Pessinus in Asia Minor was renowned for the transfer of a meteorite to
Rome in 204 (or 205) B.C. (Simon, 1997; Kron, 1992). So there can be
little doubt that the mother of gods, Cybele, to Tacitus was associated
with meteorites.
It is conceivable that the witnessing of a large crater-forming
meteorite impact event releasing an amount of energy comparable to that
of the Hiroshima bomb could induce this kind of worship. This
possibility is substantiated by archaeological excavations at the main
crater that have revealed a wall-like or altar-like construction right
at the crater rim. Unfortunately, no material suited for radiocarbon
dating has been retrieved from the archaeological excavations. However,
judging from the pottery found near the site, habitation seems to have
started in either Early Iron age or Late Bronze age (from about 700 to
600 B.C.; Lougas, 1980). Also, from ancient times until A.D. 1800, the
name of Kaalijarv was Pljhha Jarw (Treumann, 1963), which means "the
sacred lake". In the vicinity of the Kaalijärv craters, there are
several settlements, which implies that this part of the world was
inhabited before and after the time of the impact. There is, of course,
no way we can prove that the worshiping at Kaalijiirv had any connection
with the fall of the meteorite, but it is not an unlikely hypothesis.



Best wishes,

Bernd

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Re: [meteorite-list] Hard Disk Crashed !

[PolandMET.com]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1735601002

Wow :))
500g for $285,674.99
This is really cheap !

-[ MARCIN CIMALA ]--[ IMCA#3667 ]-
http://www.meteoryt.net   >   Meteorite Information Center
http://www.polandmet.com  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.studiomc.com.pl[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.vistapro.prv.pl   +GSM (607) 535 195
-


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[meteorite-list] Hard Disk Crashed !

[LABENNE METEORITES]

>>Hi List,

  More rare meteorites specimens are for sale on our web site 
www.lunar-meteorite.com with 35% off.   Note that because a hard disk crash 
just after our last message friday, almost all the secure on-line order and 
e-mail since friday was lost ! Now all is Ok, so if you have make an order 
from our web site  www.lunar-meteorite.com without any reply, please try 
again and don't hesitate to contact us.
Regards,
Luc

Labenne Meteorites
Meteorites for Science, Education and collectors
http://www.labenne-meteorites.com

Tel/fax : + 33 323 575 133
BP 57
02300 Tergnier
France


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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Contest #4 - Meteorites are Educational Because....

[SHELLY1999]

Meteorites are educational because they hold the 
unknown knowledge that humans strive for in life. 
Since the time of recorded history the " Heavens " 
have been observed. Man has formed societies and ideologies based on the stars. 
Religions have linked themselves to these " Rocks from Heaven "( Ark of the 
Covenant).
So many questions we humans have about the universe 
and what part we play in it. Meteorites are a link to our past and a possible 
bridge to our future. They stimulate our imaginations and fortify our need to 
explore. Meteorties are the seeds to understanding how life came about and what 
role we as human beings will play in the universe.
Meteorites have been and will always be educational 
to anyone who just looks up!
 
Michael Mikowski  

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Mark 
  Bostick 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 10:30 
PM
  Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite 
  Contest #4 - Meteorites are Educational Because
  
  Hello Everybody,
   
  As you have no doult figured out by the title of 
  this e-mail, this isMETEORITE CONTEST #4!!! (To add more drama, please 
  read again only increase the voice in your head as you work your way to the 
  end the sentence). 
   
  The prize in this free to all who wish to enter 
  contest is one NWA349 Meteorite Thin Section.  Large surface area and it 
  is not even one of the cheaper (but still nice) covered thin 
  sections.  Unclassified...my hold it up to the light and make a quick 
  guessimate classification is an L5. It does have some nice chondrules.  
  
   
  To win the thin section please complete the 
  following sentence...
   
  "Meteorites are Educational 
  Because.."
   
  Answer in as many or as few words as you 
  like.  Please e-mail all entries to the list and not only to me 
  directly.  
   
  In school I was a math wizard and English bored 
  me sometimes to sleep.  (I still don't understand the reason of teaching 
  me what a pro-noun was 8 years in a rowif I didn't get it the first 6 
  years).  So I find it strange I have been "giving out" writing 
  assignments.  But just think, I could be giving long formulas and asking 
  for you to change out y for x. 
   
  Mark Bostick "The Big Collector"
  
  PS: To take a look at my currant ebay auctions, put this (complete) address 
  link in your address bar on your web explorer...or just search ebay seller: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&[EMAIL PROTECTED]&completed=0&sort=3&since=-1&include=0&page=1&rows=25
   
   

[meteorite-list] meteorite-list Contest #4

[Simon de Boer]

    Meteorites are educational 
because when the student is ready the teacher has  available  many 
exhibits . Facts,  speculation, and  imagination provide  for 
anyone   a well rounded  academic and science  based  
study  which  does impact us  
daily. 
Meteorolgy,  "  the study of meteorites''   , 
employs  the basics of reading , writing  and arithmetic and  
will provide  any student  to a limitless wealth  of  the 
known and unknown.   The greatest asset of  his education  
from this point on is understanding , that he will forever remain a 
student,  one  who is as unique as  the meteorites he 
studies.
 
kindergarden  level  student  
Simon de Boer
IMCA#  9708
 
Thank you Mark for another great contest thanks 
to the list for reading yet another entry

[meteorite-list] Meteorite Books and Quotes

[Walter Branch]

Hello Everyone,
 
I am preparing another list of meteorite books (all 
at free shipping) and I thought the following passage was mildly 
interesting.  I will give a 10% discount to the first person who can tell 
me who wrote this and when he or she wrote it:
 
"On account of the halo which naturally surrounds 
an object of such mysterious origin, meteorites have been eagerly sought by 
collectors - so eagerly, indeed, that stones and irons have been divided and 
subdivided to a degree bordering on the absurd and far removed from 
scientific.  The desire on the part of collectors to secure representatives 
of the fullest possible number of falls has not only led them to bid prices high 
but has caused a stone - if only of moderate size - to be broken into bits so 
widely distributed that it has been impossible in later years to secure enough 
for study.  Catalogs of collections have been printed in which certain rare 
falls were represented by fragments weighing but 0.1 or 0.2 gram or a little 
larger than the point of an ordinary lead pencil.  Prices have soared 
accordingly and instances may be cited in which five to ten dollars a gram has 
been paid.  The small meteorite which fell in Kilbourn, Wisconsin (Plate 
40), in 1911, and passed through a board in the roof of a barn, sold as high as 
seven dollars a gram, largely on this account, as it was a stone of a common 
chondritic type.  Obviously a meteorite has no actual value and these 
prices are not only wholly artificial and unscientific, but silly.  It 
should be added that this condition is due largely to the mere collector rather 
than the serious student.  Ambitious heads of departments on our public 
museums are, however, by no means blameless."
 
Okay, who was it?
 
Best wishes,
 
-Walter 
---Walter Branch, 
Ph.D.Branch Meteorites322 Stephenson Ave., Suite BSavannah, GA  
31405 USAwww.branchmeteorites.com

Re: Vs: [meteorite-list] Re:Kaali meteorite - Estonia, 400BC?

[rochette]

Hello list

a short comment on Pytheas, who was a greek citizen of Phocea, now
Marseille in SE France. He may have been the first geophysicist as he is
renown for his proposal that tide is linked to the movement of Moon and Sun
relative to Earth. He formed this idea probably by being the first Greek to
sail in North Sea (finding a way to circonvene Carthage blocus on
Gibraltar), so to experience much bigger tides than the few tens of cm
available in his home mediteranean sea. His legendary travel to collect
amber (in Baltica) and tin (in Cornwall and possibly Scotland)  and find
trade routes independent of Carthage rule is said to have ended in an
extraordinary way: feared of affronting Carthage troops again (he escape
miraculously the first time thanks to huge fog and to the outgoing surface
current in Gibraltar strait), he is reported to have "sailed" from
practically Kaali to the Black sea, partly using lakes and rivers (from
Ladoga to the Dniepr?) and partly sliding his boot on land!! He succeeded
to get back home safe after a few years of travelling. More impressive than
Ulysse's pleasant cruise, isn't it?
Unfortunately his original writing are not preserved and his book has been
"rebuilt" using fragments quoted by other authors, so one must be cautious.
But his visit to Kaali freshly formed crater area is among the most likely
part of the story.





Pierre



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Re: Vs: [meteorite-list] Re:Kaali meteorite - Estonia, 400BC?

[Tõnu Pani]

Hi all,

The most correct name is Kaali craters, as Kaali järv is a small lake
inside the biggest of Kaali craters /diam of crater 110m, deph 16m, lake
itself 40-60m and depth 6m/. The 8 smaller craters have diam 12-40m and
depths 1-4 m.

The most prominent proponent for the interregional knowledge about the
craters in antique times is Estonian former president (1992-2001)
Lennart Meri. Among his books and films there are
Hõbevalge (Silverwhite /or silvery white/) in 1976 and Hõbevalgem /More
silvery white/ in 1984. In the last one he built the theory about the
Pytheas jorney to Kaali. This theory was met by very severe criticism by
other hiostorians /Meri graduated in 1953 as historian here, in Tartu/.

But however, such a big event had to impress the people living nearby.
And in old estonian myths the was a god Tharapita, who flew over Estonia
in the same direction and way, as the Kaali meteorite

with best regards
Tõnu Pani

>  > > large crater in Estonia, and several (as many as
> > > 8?) smaller craters>

> > 400-370 B.C. at  ± 1o / The nine Kaalijärv craters
> > > on the Estonian
> > > island of Saaremaa (Ösel)
> > > VESKI S. et al. (2001) Ecological catastrophe in
> > > connection with the
> > > impact of the Kaali Meteorite about 800-400 BC on
> > > the island of
> > > Saaremaa, Estonia
> > > About 800-400 B.C. a meteoroid hit a then relatively
> > > densely populated
> > > island, forming the Kaali meteorite impact craters.

>  Indirect written
> > > historical records interpreted as describing the
> > > Kaali meteorite blast
> > > event come from Tacitus (1942) and Pytheas from
> > > Massalia.



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Vs: [meteorite-list] Re:Kaali meteorite - Estonia, 400BC?

[Jarmo Moilanen]

Hi all,

So am I.

Jarmo


> Hi all -
>
> If anyone has MAPS at hand, I would be most interested
> in the citations of Tacitus and Pytheas.
>
> best wishes -
> ep
>
>
> --- Bernd Pauli HD
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > > Doing some research for a radio slot, and am
> > intrigued by the "Kaali"
> > > meteorite which fell in Estonia around 400BC; in
> > the brief net
> > > searches I've done so far I've found intriguing
> > references to the Sun
> > > being blocked out by the impact, localised
> > environmental devastation
> > > and even "human casualties"... Couple of websites
> > say that there's a
> > > large crater in Estonia, and several (as many as
> > 8?) smaller craters
> > > nearby, but am just wondering if anyone out there
> > has any more
> > > specific info about this impact? Thanks in advance
> > for all info /
> > > help, Stu
> >
> > Hello Stu and List,
> >
> > Here are two scientifically reliable references:
> >
> > RASMUSSEN K.L. et al. (2000) The age of the
> > Kaalijärv meteorite
> > craters (MAPS 35-5, 2000, pp. 1067-1071, excerpt):
> >
> > 400-370 B.C. at  ± 1o / The nine Kaalijärv craters
> > on the Estonian
> > island of Saaremaa (Ösel) were caused by the impact
> > of a fragmented IAB
> > iron meteorite, of which several masses have been
> > recovered totalling
> > about 2.5 kg. The largest piece recovered so far
> > weighs 38.4 gr (Raukas
> > et al., 1999).
> >
> > VESKI S. et al. (2001) Ecological catastrophe in
> > connection with the
> > impact of the Kaali Meteorite about 800-400 BC on
> > the island of
> > Saaremaa, Estonia (MAPS 36-10, 2001 pp. 1367-1375,
> > excerpt):
> >
> > About 800-400 B.C. a meteoroid hit a then relatively
> > densely populated
> > island, forming the Kaali meteorite impact craters.
> > Unfortunately the
> > people living at that time on the island of Saaremaa
> > were illiterate and
> > we have no direct written record of the impact
> > event. Indirect written
> > historical records interpreted as describing the
> > Kaali meteorite blast
> > event come from Tacitus (1942) and Pytheas from
> > Massalia.
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Bernd
> >
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