Re: [meteorite-list] Latest round of Brad Sampson problems

[Matteo Chinellato]

Hello


--- Matson, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Mark, Matteo and List,
 
 Matteo: sorry to hear about your difficulties with
 Brad.  The
 mounting evidence is that Brad, while he does sell
 legitimate
 meteorites and almost always comes through when
 pressed, is a
 procrastinator.  Be forceful -- the squeaky wheel
 does get the
 grease.  You are unfortunately at a bit of a
 disadvantage since
 you live in Italy, but customer satisfaction is key
 in this
 business, and sellers who are unresponsive do earn a
 reputation.

I have always acquired to the foreign country and
pieces are always all arrive to me, in 3 cases have
only gone lost. Pieces are always arrive in maximum 20
days here in Italy, not beyond. With Sampson the only
times that I have acquired or exchanged from he,
pieces are arrive to me after months. This is not a
behavior that excuse its motivations for its delays,
second is a false one inasmuch as it says that I do
not have I have never contacted it for give my address
when on the payment paypal - endured accepted - there
is all writing. Hour I see that it has found again the
word in order to insert its makes feedback on Ebay, we
see if hour finds the courage to write also in the
mailing list. 
Regards

Matteo



=
M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: 
http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140
MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[meteorite-list] Old Woman meteorite, part III (or IV?)

[Sharkkb8]

I've just driven through the Mojave Desert to Las Vegas (so as to havea good Perseid-viewing-headquarters ONLY, of course ;-) and will be stopping by the "Desert Discovery Center" in Barstow on my way back to LA Tuesday. We've briefly touched on the "Old Woman" meteorite a few times on the list, and the rumors about its possibly being moved or going into storage, and about the tenuousness of the "Desert Discovery Center" which has been the ol' girl's home for many years, up to this point anyway. Anyone know the current status? Bob V.?

Gregory

http://www.ca.blm.gov/barstow/meteorite.html

[meteorite-list] Other Ebay Auctions

[Matteo Chinellato]

Hello all

I have put others pieces on Ebay, the others is go
sold immediately when I have put look the unique
piece for sale of NWA 1256 go here
http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Regards

Matteo


=
M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: 
http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140
MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
EBAY.COM:http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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[meteorite-list] a possible meteorite find (just going for a walk)

[Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!]

Good morning all. And what a morning it might be. Last night at about
7:30, I was out for a walk, nothing new, I do it all the time. I was just
walking when about 400 yards from my house, I saw a brownish looking rock
just lying on the ground. It looked a little unusual. So I picked it up
and I thoght this does not look like a normal rock. So when I got home I
weighed it, 25 grams, slight metal flakes on one side, and yes it did have
a pull with my magnet. But I'm having trouble deciding if this a meteorite
find, or something else. It has all characteristics of a meteorite, but
something is missing, and it is baffling me. I should know for sure. I'll
have a pic on my site later. Meteorite or not??? Some help would be nice.

steve

=
Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120
I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728
The Midwest Meteorite Collector!
Website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com

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[meteorite-list] (no subject)

[Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!]

I forgot to mention that this stone individual looks alot like some of the
NWA stuff that comes from Dean Bessey. It has all the likeness of those
meteorites.
steve

=
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I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728
The Midwest Meteorite Collector!
Website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com

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[meteorite-list] An Inexpensive Rooftop Fireball Patrol

[Julien . Courtois]

Hello list,

I cannot remember to have seen this article mentionned on this list:

http://skyandtelescope.com/news/current/article_679_1.asp

BTW, is Ed still on this list?

An Inexpensive Rooftop Fireball Patrol
By David L. Chandler

  
Edward Albin's fireball monitor keeps an eye out for bright falling stars in
the skies over Atlanta, Georgia. Meteors brighter than 1st magnitude are
recorded by the video camera mounted above the fisheye mirror. Courtesy
Edward Albin 
 
   
July 29, 2002 | The whole thing cost just more than $200, it requires
virtually no maintenance except a once-a-month dusting, and it provides a
useful service that hasn't been widely available before. And it may just be
the start of something big: an all-sky, all-night fireball monitoring
program. 
Edward Albin, an astronomer at the Fernbank Science Center in Atlanta, built
and set up the video system two months ago on the roof of his home just
outside Atlanta (to avoid the city's light pollution at the science center
itself). Having received many calls from the public over the years with
reports of apparent fireball sightings, he decided that it would be useful
to have a way to check back when such accounts come in. He could then both
confirm that it was indeed a fireball - potentially staving off some UFO
reports - and provide details of the meteor's time and heading. Similar
systems have been set up by Sandia National Laboratory. 

Albin built the simple setup from a hemispherical, acrylic corner mirror
like the ones that help you avoid shopping-cart collisions in the
supermarket. He mounted the foot-wide (30-centimeter) mirror horizontally on
a cut-to-size piece of plywood, and secured it with a silicone adhesive.
Initially condensation occasionally formed on the mirror, but that problem
disappeared after Albin put a small electric heating pad inside the dome. 

  
Edward Albin's fireball monitor would easily snare bright meteors such as
this Perseid captured by Russell Sipe. Notice the color changes in the
tail. Courtesy Russell Sipe. 

A simple metal-rod tripod supports the downward-pointing video camera above
the mirror, providing a full-sky fisheye view. The 12-volt, black-and-white
CCD camera, obtained from a surveillance video company, has a sensitivity of
0.0003 lux, allowing it to pick up stars to 1st magnitude, Albin says. The
camera is enclosed in a piece of PVC pipe with a cap for weather protection.
Once a month, he goes up on the roof to clean the apparatus, which mostly
means removing spider webs. 

The images are captured on a standard VHS recorder in the house, connected
by standard coax to the setup on the roof's ridge line, using 8-hour tapes
(up to two per night in winter). At present, he checks the tapes only if
there is a fireball sighting. 

An informal network of such simple and inexpensive devices could make it
possible not only to establish the time and direction of any fireballs
observed in the area, but potentially to triangulate the paths and get
detailed elevation and position data, Albin says. But even individual
monitors can provide useful information at relatively low cost. It is
amazing how many fireballs and bolides have escaped capture on video, even
in our modern techno-gadget age, he says. 

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Re: [meteorite-list] Brad Sampson Update

[Mark Miconi]

Matteo,
If you used PayPal to pay this auction, you can dispute the payment with
PayPal and they will return your money.
Go to the HELP section of PayPal, and click on Protection Policies and
then click on Buyers Complaint Process.
There you will find this information:

Protection Policies

 What is the Buyer Complaint Process?

 PayPal's Buyer Complaint Process helps protect PayPal members when a
merchant does not deliver goods as promised. If you have been unable to
resolve a dispute with a seller, you may file a Buyer Complaint Form (go to
the Security Center link in the footer of any PayPal page) to initiate an
investigation. PayPal will investigate your complaint and attempt to recover
any funds you are owed. You will be entitled to the return of any funds
PayPal is able to collect on your behalf. However, fund recovery is not
guaranteed.

Additionally, buyers who qualify for eBay's insurance policy (currently
limited to $200) may recover up to an additional $200 of protection from
PayPal if their purchase was made from a verified PayPal seller.

Please review the Consumer Protection Programs section of our User Agreement
to learn the specific terms and conditions of the Buyer Complaint Process.

I would hit this guy where he lives. If you paid by a check or money order I
would IMMEDIATELY stop payment, which you can do even after a check or money
order has been paid. If you used a credit card I would call them IMMEDIATELY
and dispute the charges. Most credit cards have a buyer protection program
and if they do not then contact them and explain the situation, technically
what the seller has done borderlines Fraud, but the credit card company will
make that determination. What they will do almost immediately is reverse or
return the funds to your account.

I would also file a report with Ebay and apply for their Buyer Protection
Insurance. Ebay will investigate the allegation and pay you if they
determine that your report is correct.

This might seem like a lot of work, but the reason you need to do it is
simple. You will be puuting pressure on the seller from many sources, all of
them with legal ability. PayPal, Ebay, and the Bank all will try to
contact the seller from many different bits of contact information that they
all have. By applying this much pressure to Mr. Simpson he will either
comply or subject himself to alot of investigations with legal consequences
from many sources. It sounds like Mr. Simpson is a little bit irresponsible
when it comes to shipping and completing a transaction. Some people have
replied that they eventually received their items, some said they did not.

And finally, though everyone on the List is sympathetic to your situation
and telling your story on the list will inform others of Mr. Simpsons
actions, YOU REALLY need to follow up with all of the site/businesses/banks
that are involved with this transaction and get the investigations going.
They are the only ones that can really help you get your item or your money
back.

My 2 cents

Mark Miconi
Arizona
- Original Message -
From: Matteo Chinellato [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Brad Sampson Update


 Hello all

 Take a look now to my feedbacks on Ebay what have
 write the liar Sampson. Well, today I write to Ebay
 and paypal. Sampson, if you have the balls and you are
 in the mailing list, give a explanation to your new
 failure. Excused the vent.
 Regards

 Matteo



 =
 M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
 Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site:
http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
 International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140
 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 EBAY.COM:http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Re: [meteorite-list] Nakhla and the dead mutt!

[John Gwilliam]

Hello List,
Those of you that have been on the List a long time can
remember the Nakhla dog issue being an annual event. With the
limited documentation that is available, it is impossible to know for
sure if the dog did or didn't exist. It's somewhat like the debate
whether God exists or not, and there will always be those that believe or
disbelieve. 

John

At 10:05 AM 8/9/02 -0700, James_TOM Knudson wrote:
Hello List, I have a question! There is a lot
of arguing about this dog thing! If there is any validity at all to Ron
Baalke's theory, there could be one big strewn field between El Nakhla
and Denshal. Has anyone searched this area? If someone searches the area
they might find some nice meteorites and if real lucky a dog skeleton
with a meteorite lodged in its skull! That would prove this dog thing
once and for all. Tom



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Re: [meteorite-list] Brad Sampson Update

[Michael Farmer]

Why do you people keep buying from people who repeatedly have problems? This
has been a recurring event, every few months I hear the same things about
the same people. Everyone who has ever bought from me knows I ship my ebay
items the very next day when possible, most of the time, buyers recive it
BEFORE they even paid!
Do yourselves a favor, read these emails, then buy from people who can take
care of the buyers they sell to!
Mike Farmer
Those of you who want to know what real service is, buy from me.
I have over 50 items on ebay right now, many started at one penny, and I
NEVER use reserves.
http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/




- Original Message -
From: Matteo Chinellato [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Brad Sampson Update


 Hello all

 Take a look now to my feedbacks on Ebay what have
 write the liar Sampson. Well, today I write to Ebay
 and paypal. Sampson, if you have the balls and you are
 in the mailing list, give a explanation to your new
 failure. Excused the vent.
 Regards

 Matteo



 =
 M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
 Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site:
http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
 International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140
 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 EBAY.COM:http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Re: [meteorite-list] Brad Sampson Update

[Matteo Chinellato]

Hello all

Where I have to go on Ebay for block Sampson no bid on
my auctions? Thanks for info.
Regards

Matteo


=
M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: 
http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140
MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
EBAY.COM:http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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[meteorite-list] chunk-o-brahin- wanna buy

[harlan trammell]

had so much fun buying that last one that i want another- anybody got brahin slices/ chunx 200- 1200g for sale?Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Click Here

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[meteorite-list] Details of 1825 Hawaii fall... (fwd)

[Tracy Latimer]

Thank you to Mark Bostick for posting those old news reports of various
falls.  It's very interesting to hear about what was seen and found at
that time, rather like a time capsule.  Just to throw my 2g worth in, here
is a report that another list member sent me some time ago; I'm not sure
it made it to the list, but it's an eyewitness account of the Honolulu
fall of 1825.  The author, Hiram Bingham, was a local missionary and
merchant of some account, so I'd give it fair credence.

Tracy Latimer
p.s. thank you also to ERic Hutton for the original info!

~~snip~~paste~~

A short while ago someone was asking about meteorite falls in Hawaii.

I have just come across this eye witness report of the 1825 fall.


Taken from the American Journal of Science and Arts. Vol. 49, Oct 1845.

Particulars of  the fall of Meteorites in the Sandwich Islands;
communicated by request, by the Rev. Hiram Bingham, missionary in
those Islands, in a letter dated Boston, May 1, 1845.

To Prof. Silliman--On the 27th of September, 1825, a shower of
meteoric stones fell, partley in the channel between Molokai and Lanai,
and partly between those islands and Oahu, and partly at Honolulu,
where I then resided. One explosion was heard at Lahaina, and several 
in quick succession at Honolulu, eighty miles to the northwest, 
between the hours of 10 and 11, A. M. The fragment that was seen to 
pass Lahaina towards Oahu fell in the Molokai Channel, and threw a 
mass of water into the air, and was said to be followed by a rumbling
sound. 

The Rev. Mr. Richards of Lahaina mistook the report of the explosion
for that of cannon on board of some ship. The explosions which I 
heard at Honolulu led me at first to suppose they were cannon on 
board of ships not far distant. But soon after I was satisfied that they 
were meteoric. Very soon the servants of Kalanimoku, secretary of 
state, brought me the fragment which they affirmed had just fallen from 
the sky in our village. This fragment I carefully preserved and brought 
over, and had the pleasure of presenting to you. A different pleasure 
from that with which Mr. Richards and myself picked up and forwarded 
to the Missionary Museum in Pemberton Square, Boston, a cannon 
ball--one of several which had been fired at our heads. 




-- 
Eric Hutton


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[meteorite-list] BIG NWA SALE ON EBAY

[dean bessey]

I have just listed many dozens of unclassified NWAs on ebay and some NWA869s. most have buy it nows only slightly higher than the starting price.
i wont be back in canada until thursday so buy it nows that get paid for via paypal will be mailed on thursday or friday.
see my ebay user id AMUNRE
also see 16 thin sections that i started on ebay yesterday also
cheers
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[meteorite-list] tektite sale

[TektiteDawg]

I have the following item for sale: 

Bediasite, 36.0 grams, Grimes-Washington County area, from the Monnig Collection. Flat face with a partial starburst pattern. Opposite side is a tetrahedron. A possible thermal ablation core. Absolutely flawless with no chips whatsoever. $150.00

Bikolite, 29.5 grams, Luzon Island, Phillippines. Beautiful piece with DEEP grooves. Only one unnoticeable recent chip approximately 1 x 2 mm in size. Otherwise flawless. $60.00

Darwin Glass, Tasmania, 32.3 grams. LARGE chunk with very minor damage. Smooth, flowing texture on one side and "ropy" texture on other side. Nice. $100.00

Buyer pays $3.50 shipping within U.S.


Randy in N.O.

[meteorite-list] (no subject)

[Waldron Cluett]

Hello ListI too had to wait much too long to get an order sent from Brad Sampson...many e-mails later he did sent the auction...I will not buy from him again...  I recently purchased a "rock" from a Tibetian artifact dealer that said it was "Tibetian Sky Stone".. It's black, heavy and looks like a meteoritehas any one had any information on thisI would appreciate it...Thanx,  Waldron Cluett IMCA 9746 Toad Hollow Gallery  Handcrafted Jewelry2517 Wakefield Road (Rte. 153)Wakefield, NH 03872 (603)522-6529visit us on line at: http://groups.msn.com/ToadHollowHappenings Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

[meteorite-list] new forsale page

[Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!]

Hi list. Just want to pass on some news about my website. I added a sale
page for my meteorites and fossils. Feel free to visit and see if there is
anything you like. Please let me know. There is a very rare piece for
sale. Please email for price. Only serious buyers for this piece please.

   steve

=
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I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728
The Midwest Meteorite Collector!
Website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com

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[meteorite-list] Dogs and Meteorites

[Chuck]

  Hello list and Tom,
My name is Chuck Jenkins, I am a medically retired Firefighter (M.S.) I have
been training Search and Rescue Dogs for over 20 years. There is probably
very, very little that I do not know about Search Dogs and how they use
their noses to search with.
1. It will take a lot of time for you and your dog, it depends upon the dog.
2. You must find out what metal or compound that you are wanting the dog to
find for you. The Items must not be never touched by you or anyone (use
rubber gloves). You can clean the scents with rubbing alcohol, rinse with
water, rinse and dry it each time before you but it back into a  Zip Lock
Freezer bag and replace it immediately when ripped or torn (keep a unopened
one with you when searching).
You must play games with the dog like Fetch, You better not get this and
Wheres the or Show me the Meteorite.The dog must be praised when he has
found it or get's very close to it as if this act is the most wonderful
thing that has happened to him and you. Start close and work farther and
father away from for a max distant of around 100 ft. Rewards: a toy or small
bits of food.
This is very basic training guide, if you need help just E-mail me.
Choice of  Dogs:
You best is a LAB or a  German Shepherd, note:a Shepherd is not a City Dog
  A pointer is a very bad choice as a search dog, they smell warm bodied
living animals not cold item's, there noses are not set up for the kind of
searching that you are looking for.
The reason that the larger dogs are mostly used is, because their noses
recycle the faint smells over and over again allowing them to smell it much
better than the other breeds. A dog smells Forty Thousand to One Million
times better that you or me. Larger Nosed dogs can lock in, rule out and
stay on track to just one scent more than the other dogs breeds. Mutt's are
just as good as any other breed, for not all dog's will be able to work for
you. The dog that will best work for you will be the one who want's to
please and please you.
I hope that this helps, thank for you time in reading this,
Chuck Jenkins
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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[meteorite-list] Lucerne Dry Lake mystery item revealed

[Matson, Robert]

Hi All,

Back about two weeks ago I posed a question to the list asking how
many of you had paid a visit to Lucerne Dry Lake in southern California
prior to April 2002.  A number of you replied privately, some who had
been there, some not.  There were a number of guesses as to the mystery
item that I found there, but none close.  And of those that had been,
none were aware of anything that they had left behind.

Since it appears that the individual who lost this item may not be
a member of Meteorite-Central, the time has come to spill the beans:
I found, of all things, a meteorite!  Of course, meteorites are exactly
what I was searching for, so that shouldn't come as a surprise.  But
this was a TRANSPORTED meteorite, more specifically a partslice.

Now I can understand someone taking a meteorite along with them while
hunting to use as a search image, but a small cut slice???  At the
time I found it, I didn't even consider the possibility.  I thought
perhaps some kind of odd mechanical weathering had sanded a meteorite
down to a sliver.  (Given the alternative explanation that someone
had dropped a partslice on the lakebed, and that I had somehow
managed to find it seemed to be the more absurd possibility.)

Given that no saw marks could be seen, I had to treat it as a
find.  It received a field ID and a sample was broken off (not cut!)
for UCLA to analyze.  Mind you -- we looked at this meteorite under
a microscope and aside from the obvious resemblance to a (weathered)
slice of meteorite, could find no evidence of it having been cut.

Fast-forward several months to the opening night welcome reception
for the Meteoritical Society meeting at UCLA.  I brought a number
of meteorite finds along with me to show to colleagues, among them
this oddity from Lucerne.  The sun was setting, but in the fading
light Bob Verish and Nick Gessler got to take a look at this find
under a 12x loupe that I had brought along.  Lo and behold, with
the grazing light, there was just enough surface contrast that Bob
was able to detect the faint remnants of saw marks on the
less-weathered side.  I looked, and sure enough they were there:
completely invisible except when viewed at grazing incidence.
I had myself a transport -- and probably an unintentional one at
that!

If any of you are curious to see the in situ find photos, I've
posted them at:

http://members.cox.net/mojave_meteorites/lvtran_a.jpg
http://members.cox.net/mojave_meteorites/lvtran_b.jpg
http://members.cox.net/mojave_meteorites/lvtran_c.jpg
http://members.cox.net/mojave_meteorites/lvtran_d.jpg

The first image shows the slice before it was touched, the
second after it was flipped over.  The third is a close-up,
and the fourth shows the general area on the playa where
it was found.  Obviously it would be nice to come full-circle
on this story and learn the identity of the one who lost this
slice, when they lost it, and most importantly which meteorite
it came from!  It would make a humorous story for Meteorite
Magazine...

Best,
Rob

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[meteorite-list] Perseid Meteor Shower....now

[Mark Bostick]

Hello All,

Havent seen anyone mention this but the Perseid 
Meteor Shower is going on right now in North America. (Looks like no sleep 
tonight).

Here is link with more info on the 
shower...

http://www.msnbc.com/news/791665.asp?pne=msn#BODY

Mark Bostick 

[meteorite-list] Vizsla not visla

[James_TOM Knudson]

Sorry List, in that last dog post i misspelled VIZSLA! I am not fluent in my7 hungarian spelling!

Thanks, Tom

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[meteorite-list] Occurence of Shocked Quartz within the Sudbury Inpact Complex

[littlejo]

Of the various rock types, e.g. grey melt, black 
onaping,,fallback breccia, and so forth found in 
the Sudbury Complex, where would a  person 
expect to find the best preserved shocked quartz? 

I would like to have a a thin section containing shocked
quartz in my thin section collection.

Yours,

Keith Littleton
New Orleans, LA

P.S. Of the above, I would guess that the fallback 
breccia would have the best preserved shocked 
quartz and the black onaping might have partially 
melted and highly altered shcock quartz.  Any other 
suggestions and recommendations would be greatly 
appreciated concerning where to find the best
preserved shocked quartz.


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[meteorite-list] New meteorite hunting method?

[James_TOM Knudson]

Hello List,lets put the dogs aside for a moment;When I have to locate under ground utilities, When the going gets tough I put my companies$2000 dollar locator back in the truck and get out my trusty copper rods and do it the old fashion way! Yes I am talken Witching or dousing! Has any one tried this time tested method of finding hard to find things? 

Thanks, Tom

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Re: [meteorite-list] New meteorite hunting method?

[Mike Groetz]

Hi Tom-
   Yes, I have done it since I was about 12 years old.
My rods are 14 long, bent at 4 right angle. Hold the
4 pieces vertical in your fists adjacent to each
other  with the long 10 ends parallel outward maybe
2 apart and horizontal to the ground. Walk foward
slightly shuffling your feet. When an object is found-
they will spread apart away from each other. At the
widest point- look directly down from your fists.
   My Grandfather from Germany taught my Dad this.
They did it in WWII to detect land mines. Then my Dad
taught me (while my Mom watched and laughed! Thats OK-
she was teasing) 
   Difference that I was told is they would detect
hollow items (such as the mines). From underground
pipes, drain lines, to wells mine have worked. I even
did it for my friends in high school 30 years ago
blindfolded using a Bic pen perpindicular to me on the
cement floor in shop class. Teacher was a bit beside
himself.
   For meteorites- I don't know. Guess I have to go
back to the hollow theory and wonder. Hey- if you have
some whole meteorite samples- try it on the living
room floor! (just don't let your wife watch!)
   Have a good night. Fun thought.
Mike

--- James_TOM Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

HR
htmldiv style='background-color:'DIV
DIV
DIV/DIV
DIV/DIVHello List,nbsp;lets put the dogs aside
for a moment;nbsp;When I have to locate under ground
utilities, When the going gets tough I put my
companiesnbsp;$2000 dollar locator back in the truck
and get out my trusty copper rods and do it the old
fashion way! Yes I am talken Witching or dousing! Has
any one tried this time tested method of finding hard
to find things? BRBRBR
DIV/DIV
DIVThanks, Tom/DIV
DIV/DIV
DIV/DIV/DIV/DIV/divbr clear=allhrChat
with friends online, try MSN Messenger: a
href='http://g.msn.com/1HM1ENUS/c144??PS=47575'Click
Here/abr/html

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Re: [meteorite-list] New meteorite hunting method?

[Michael Farmer]

I dont know about that dousing crap guys, I saw a man in Canada doing it,
pointing at streams and saying that there was GOLD down there over and over,
porr guy had about $1 to his name.
Not sure why he knew gold was there but didnt bother finding it.
Mike Farmer
- Original Message -
From: Mike Groetz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: James_TOM Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New meteorite hunting method?


 Hi Tom-
Yes, I have done it since I was about 12 years old.
 My rods are 14 long, bent at 4 right angle. Hold the
 4 pieces vertical in your fists adjacent to each
 other  with the long 10 ends parallel outward maybe
 2 apart and horizontal to the ground. Walk foward
 slightly shuffling your feet. When an object is found-
 they will spread apart away from each other. At the
 widest point- look directly down from your fists.
My Grandfather from Germany taught my Dad this.
 They did it in WWII to detect land mines. Then my Dad
 taught me (while my Mom watched and laughed! Thats OK-
 she was teasing)
Difference that I was told is they would detect
 hollow items (such as the mines). From underground
 pipes, drain lines, to wells mine have worked. I even
 did it for my friends in high school 30 years ago
 blindfolded using a Bic pen perpindicular to me on the
 cement floor in shop class. Teacher was a bit beside
 himself.
For meteorites- I don't know. Guess I have to go
 back to the hollow theory and wonder. Hey- if you have
 some whole meteorite samples- try it on the living
 room floor! (just don't let your wife watch!)
Have a good night. Fun thought.
 Mike

 --- James_TOM Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 HR
 htmldiv style='background-color:'DIV
 DIV
 DIV/DIV
 DIV/DIVHello List,nbsp;lets put the dogs aside
 for a moment;nbsp;When I have to locate under ground
 utilities, When the going gets tough I put my
 companiesnbsp;$2000 dollar locator back in the truck
 and get out my trusty copper rods and do it the old
 fashion way! Yes I am talken Witching or dousing! Has
 any one tried this time tested method of finding hard
 to find things? BRBRBR
 DIV/DIV
 DIVThanks, Tom/DIV
 DIV/DIV
 DIV/DIV/DIV/DIV/divbr clear=allhrChat
 with friends online, try MSN Messenger: a
 href='http://g.msn.com/1HM1ENUS/c144??PS=47575'Click
 Here/abr/html

 __
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Re: [meteorite-list] New meteorite hunting method?

[James_TOM Knudson]

Hey, two copper rods are cheaper than a metal detector! You can tell the poor guys from the rich one that way! I have a better sucsess rate with the rods than a $2000 cable locator, Go figure! I am going to try it someday in a strewn field. I can aford that! infact I have a set of rods now!


Thanks, Tom




From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mike Groetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "James_TOM Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New meteorite hunting method? 
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 18:42:06 -0700 
 
I dont know about that dousing crap guys, I saw a man in Canada doing it, 
pointing at streams and saying that there was GOLD down there over and over, 
porr guy had about $1 to his name. 
Not sure why he knew gold was there but didnt bother finding it. 
Mike Farmer 
- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Groetz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "James_TOM Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 6:37 PM 
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New meteorite hunting method? 
 
 
  Hi Tom- 
  Yes, I have done it since I was about 12 years old. 
  My rods are 14" long, bent at 4" right angle. Hold the 
  4" pieces vertical in your fists adjacent to each 
  other with the long 10" ends parallel outward maybe 
  2" apart and horizontal to the ground. Walk foward 
  slightly shuffling your feet. When an object is found- 
  they will spread apart away from each other. At the 
  widest point- look directly down from your fists. 
  My Grandfather from Germany taught my Dad this. 
  They did it in WWII to detect land mines. Then my Dad 
  taught me (while my Mom watched and laughed! Thats OK- 
  she was teasing) 
  Difference that I was told is they would detect 
  hollow items (such as the mines). From underground 
  pipes, drain lines, to wells mine have worked. I even 
  did it for my friends in high school 30 years ago 
  blindfolded using a Bic pen perpindicular to me on the 
  cement floor in shop class. Teacher was a bit beside 
  himself. 
  For meteorites- I don't know. Guess I have to go 
  back to the hollow theory and wonder. Hey- if you have 
  some whole meteorite samples- try it on the living 
  room floor! (just don't let your wife watch!) 
  Have a good night. Fun thought. 
  Mike 
  
  --- James_TOM Knudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  wrote: 
  
  


  

  
  
  
Hello List,lets put the dogs aside 
  for a moment;When I have to locate under ground 
  utilities, When the going gets tough I put my 
  companies$2000 dollar locator back in the truck 
  and get out my trusty copper rods and do it the old 
  fashion way! Yes I am talken Witching or dousing! Has 
  any one tried this time tested method of finding hard 
  to find things? 
  

  
Thanks, Tom
  

  





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Re: [meteorite-list] Lucerne Dry Lake mystery item revealed

[Rosemary Hackney]

woohoo Why does that road into the mountains remind me of Groom Lake?

Rosie
- Original Message - 
From: Matson, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 6:54 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lucerne Dry Lake mystery item revealed


 Hi All,
 
 Back about two weeks ago I posed a question to the list asking how
 many of you had paid a visit to Lucerne Dry Lake in southern California
 prior to April 2002.  A number of you replied privately, some who had
 been there, some not.  There were a number of guesses as to the mystery
 item that I found there, but none close.  And of those that had been,
 none were aware of anything that they had left behind.
 
 Since it appears that the individual who lost this item may not be
 a member of Meteorite-Central, the time has come to spill the beans:
 I found, of all things, a meteorite!  Of course, meteorites are exactly
 what I was searching for, so that shouldn't come as a surprise.  But
 this was a TRANSPORTED meteorite, more specifically a partslice.
 
 Now I can understand someone taking a meteorite along with them while
 hunting to use as a search image, but a small cut slice???  At the
 time I found it, I didn't even consider the possibility.  I thought
 perhaps some kind of odd mechanical weathering had sanded a meteorite
 down to a sliver.  (Given the alternative explanation that someone
 had dropped a partslice on the lakebed, and that I had somehow
 managed to find it seemed to be the more absurd possibility.)
 
 Given that no saw marks could be seen, I had to treat it as a
 find.  It received a field ID and a sample was broken off (not cut!)
 for UCLA to analyze.  Mind you -- we looked at this meteorite under
 a microscope and aside from the obvious resemblance to a (weathered)
 slice of meteorite, could find no evidence of it having been cut.
 
 Fast-forward several months to the opening night welcome reception
 for the Meteoritical Society meeting at UCLA.  I brought a number
 of meteorite finds along with me to show to colleagues, among them
 this oddity from Lucerne.  The sun was setting, but in the fading
 light Bob Verish and Nick Gessler got to take a look at this find
 under a 12x loupe that I had brought along.  Lo and behold, with
 the grazing light, there was just enough surface contrast that Bob
 was able to detect the faint remnants of saw marks on the
 less-weathered side.  I looked, and sure enough they were there:
 completely invisible except when viewed at grazing incidence.
 I had myself a transport -- and probably an unintentional one at
 that!
 
 If any of you are curious to see the in situ find photos, I've
 posted them at:
 
 http://members.cox.net/mojave_meteorites/lvtran_a.jpg
 http://members.cox.net/mojave_meteorites/lvtran_b.jpg
 http://members.cox.net/mojave_meteorites/lvtran_c.jpg
 http://members.cox.net/mojave_meteorites/lvtran_d.jpg
 
 The first image shows the slice before it was touched, the
 second after it was flipped over.  The third is a close-up,
 and the fourth shows the general area on the playa where
 it was found.  Obviously it would be nice to come full-circle
 on this story and learn the identity of the one who lost this
 slice, when they lost it, and most importantly which meteorite
 it came from!  It would make a humorous story for Meteorite
 Magazine...
 
 Best,
 Rob
 
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[meteorite-list] Deciphering Denshal Dog Data (delete if dull)

[David Weir]

Hello List,

Even though my skeptical nature leads me to scrutinize the impact dog
event, I remain open-minded to any new evidence supporting either side.
Despite the absence of eyewitnesses and newspaper articles, I am of the
mind that the probability of such a dog impact in Denshal can be further
assessed through the scientific method, using data and theoretical
applications currently available. 

While looking through the literature for any helpful data, I found a
non-peer-reviewed paper, published by Eugster et al. in LPSC 33
(2002), in which they describe research on The Pre-Atmospheric Size Of
Martian Meteorites. The upper limit of the radii of Martian ejecta
translates to masses of 150-270 kg - too high to be a limiting factor
when considering a Nakhla strewn field that may be extended into
Denshal. However, in a diagram that compares the minimum pre-atmospheric
weights of several Martian meteorites - including Nakhla, Zagami,
Shergotty, QUE 94201, Chassigny, Los Angeles, and SaU 005 - it is Nakhla
that has the lowest (the smallest size). Therefore, one might reasonably
expect Nakhla to also be at the low end of weights of all Martian
meteorite falls, especially if a pattern is evident. The falls include
the following four, in order from smallest to largest minimum calculated
pre-atmospheric size, with the respective fall weights in parentheses:
Nakhla (10 kg), Zagami (18 kg), Shergotty (5 kg), and Chassigny (4 kg). 

For those Martian meteorites that are finds, the two with the largest
minimum pre-atmospheric masses are SaU 005 (1.3 kg, but with all paired
masses included, 10.6 kg) and then Los Angeles (0.7 kg), either of which
may or may not be representive of their cumulative fall weights. In
addition, having a minimum pre-atmospheric size similar to that of
Chassigny is the Antarctic QUE 94201 (0.012 kg), which likely doesn't
represent it's total fall weight. Though not included in this study, two
other Martians with large recovered weights can be mentioned for
comparison - EET 79001 (7.9 kg) and the DaG 476 strewn field (6.3 kg).

While I don't see a pattern, I would not expect the Nakhla fall to be
much bigger than what is presently accepted. To my speculation, a
greatly extended strewn field for Nakhla, with the usual pattern of
larger masses falling further down range (into Denshal and the dog),
would significantly increase the fall weight of Nakhla. The presently
acknowledged weight seems to fit amongst the others just fine,
especially considering Nakhla was ascribed the lowest minimum
pre-atmospheric weight.

While this is admittedly only a tiny stab, I think there might be other
data out there, which taken together, could establish a preponderance of
evidence and tip the scale one way or the other. 

For instance, in The Shergotty Consortium, published in Geochimica vol.
50, 1986, there are peer-reviewed papers concerned with the
pre-atmospheric and final sizes of certain shergottites. Following a
determination of the CRE age from known profiles, cosmic ray track
densities in specific samples were used to calculate their shielding
depth and ablation characteristics on the pre-atmospheric meteoroid.
This information was then used to calculate the size of the
pre-atmospheric mass. From this resolved meteoroid size, the production
rate of cosmogenic nuclides at different depths was used to better
constrain the CRE age. For Shergotty, a pre-atmospheric size of ~12 cm
was calculated. This is equal to a mass of 26 kg, of which only 5 kg was
recovered, inferring an ablation rate of 80%. Ablation rates of 50-80%
were determined for other shergottites. 

This type of study could be done for Nakhla. Each piece of Nakhla
studied would have cosmic ray track densities that were consistent with
a specific shielding geometry, which should be consistent with the
pre-atmospheric size as calculated from production rates of cosmogenic
and radiogenic nuclides. An examination of a representative sampling of
Nakhla fragments should be able to constrain its size and ablation
characteristics, and perhaps determine if any significant anomalies in
its fall weight are evident. If not, then that would be evidence tipping
the scale in favor of a limited strewn field, ruling out a dog impact.

David

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[meteorite-list] How do you know?

[thornysahuaro]

Greetings to all.
I have been told that only one in one thousand rocks submitted to the
experts at the universities and other meteorite identification labs, turns
out to be an actual meteorite.  If this is true, how can the hundreds of
uncut, unclassified rocks from northwest Africa be passed off as
meteorites?  I'm not questioning that they all are, and I'm certainly not
doubting any of the list members who are selling them. I just would like
to know if there is some magical test.  Is the Sahara, like the ice of
Antarctica, the test itself?  Does any rock that sits on the sand
automaticly become a meteorite candidate because that is the only way it
could have gotten there?
I've got on my asbestos BVD's, so light the flamethrowers.
Thorny

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Re: [meteorite-list] How do you know?

[meteorite1.com]

Thorny wrote ...If this is true, how can the hundreds of uncut, 
unclassified rocks from northwest Africa be passed off as 
meteorites?

Good question Thorny:

There are specific areas where, geologically, meteorites have accumulated 
for tens (hundreds) of thousands of years. These areas are flat and arid, 
and where erosion rather than deposition has occurred, and the soil chemistry is 
not unfavorable to their preservation. Its not that they are that easy to 
find, but the Berbers (native wandering tribes) cover much territory and they 
have been taught how to recognize possible meteorites in their travels, so in 
this way they are educated to know what to look for. 

Take, for example, the Dar al Gani (DaG) plateau in Libya. Its very 
flat, dry, and meteorites stand out as different from the native rocks. 
You still don't just "go there" and expect to pick them up. It is 
necessary to spend literally weeks and months searching, and covering much 
territory. And you need to know what to spot. This takes a 
practiced eye. The finds may be many miles or tens of miles apart.

Meteorites (meteorwrongs) brought to researchers here by the lay public 
usually are not meteorites because the finders really don't know much about what 
to look for in recognizing them. 

If you go where the terrain is right, and the area is virtually unsearched, 
given enough hours of searching and area covered, with an experienced eye, you 
will find real meteorites.

I can't imagine how many hundreds(?) of (native) people are hunting all 
over Morocco and Algeria right now. Its like a great "gold rush". 
With their economy, its well worth their time to be on the lookout for possible 
meteorites. Most people who deal in meteorites know their geology and 
petrology pretty well and can do well in spotting at least, the more common 
types of meteorites. But not all suspected meteorites turn out to be so; 
they still need to be classified not only to determine to be accepted as 
authentic but also, and JUST AS IMPORTANT, to know their chemistry and history 
of formation. This can only be done using the electron microprobe and 
petrologic microscope (and of course a trained geochemist with the 
experience).

Hope this answers some of your questions.

RonR. N. HartmanMETEORITES and MEMBRANE SUSPENSION BOXES
[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.meteorite1.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.membranebox.com
Mailing address:The R. N. Hartman Collection 
METEORITESP.O. Box 94Walnut, CA 91788-0094 (U.S.)

- Original Message - 
From: thornysahuaro [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: meteorite list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 8:07 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] How do you know?
 Greetings to all. I have been told that 
only one in one thousand rocks submitted to the experts at the 
universities and other meteorite identification labs, turns out to be an 
actual meteorite. If this is true, how can the hundreds of uncut, 
unclassified rocks from northwest Africa be passed off as 
meteorites? I'm not questioning that they all are, and I'm certainly 
not doubting any of the list members who are selling them. I just would 
like to know if there is some magical test. Is the Sahara, like 
the ice of Antarctica, the test itself? Does any rock that sits on 
the sand automaticly become a meteorite candidate because that is the 
only way it could have gotten there? I've got on my asbestos 
BVD's, so light the flamethrowers. Thorny  
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[meteorite-list] Perseids?

[Sharkkb8]

The list used to receive dozens of Perseid-reports by this point in the evening of Aug 12.can we assume that it's not much of a show this year, last night or tonight? I'm about to head out north of the Neon Desert (Las Vegas) but can only assume that the lack of discussion suggests that it won't be stellar...no pun intended;-)

Gregory