[meteorite-list] Opinions On An Unclassified Saharan
G'day List, I have just received a nice little unclassified saharanmeteorite from the Hupes which is very different to any other pieces I have. It has peaked my interest and since there is so much knowledge in this list, I thought I'd ask for opinions as to what the classification may be. I would take a somewhat semi-educated guess at an LL4 but I'm really not sure. The meteorite is only 9.5g and has been cut into 4 pieces. It has a very sandy texture or make-up andhas many black chondrules/inclusions (what are they?) through-out the matrix. It is a little difficult to see in a photo compared to 'up-close and personal' but those black parts look kind oflike little roundpieces of charcoal. If your interested, take a look for yourself at the following link: http://www.meteoritesaustralia.com/features/unclass.html Thanks, Jeff KuykenI.M.C.A. #3085www.meteoritesaustralia.com
[meteorite-list] Opinions On An Unclassified Saharan
Dear Jeff, The slices of the unknown, as pictured, very much resemble DAG 430, which is so far classified as C3 UNGR. At least it has the quasi same charcoal-like chondrules. I don't remember of the sandy texture. Is the texture of your slice similar to that of Agoult ? Best wishes, Zelimir, IMCA #2380 At 21:48 09/01/03 +1100, you wrote: G'day List, I have just received a nice little unclassified saharan meteorite from the Hupes which is very different to any other pieces I have. It has peaked my interest and since there is so much knowledge in this list, I thought I'd ask for opinions as to what the classification may be. I would take a somewhat semi-educated guess at an LL4 but I'm really not sure. The meteorite is only 9.5g and has been cut into 4 pieces. It has a very sandy texture or make-up and has many black chondrules/inclusions (what are they?) through-out the matrix. It is a little difficult to see in a photo compared to 'up-close and personal' but those black parts look kind of like little round pieces of charcoal. If your interested, take a look for yourself at the following link: http://www.meteoritesaustralia.com/features/unclass.html Thanks, Jeff Kuyken I.M.C.A. #3085 www.meteoritesaustralia.com ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Another mag bites the dust!
Hello Jim and list I felt you guys did a stand up job, with all the difficulties and egos. Its a shame that this has to happen. I'm too new to this list to know much, but I sure am going to miss the stories of the field trips and all the articles and techniques. So, guess I'll go back to my corner since I won't make any Arizona show this year and hope that stories of the field trip are fun and put up before the list is no more. Mark - Original Message - From: James Tobin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 10:54 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Another mag bites the dust! Dear List, After a brief conversation with Paul it was agreed that we would pull the MeteoriteTimes magazine down off the web and pick up our toys and go home. And I had a neat article already written for next month. We tried to offer valuable information and good science. What we fought the whole time was a battle to keep out the personal agendas of dealers who were contributors. Editing and worrying about any information concerning pricing. Careful that there was never mention of others dealers names by dealers, and ebay auction results and many more things. That is beside the fact that some of the material submitted was just badly thought out and poor science. Well, whether out of rushing around with the holidays and trying to get an issue out; we missed a couple things this month. They became matters of concern to certain individuals. Frankly, I have spent the week moderating the disputes of dealers in the meteorite business over things that we had little or no involvement in, except that they were written or done by contributing writers. This was never what the magazine was to be about. None of this has anything to do with the joy of studying meteorites and sharing stories. It involves egos and business. So when Paul called today with another problem created by one of our contributors, we came to the easy decision to drop the magazine. This reflects our general philosophy of life. As hard as we work, if the things we do in our spare time are not fun, we don't do them. Both of us have very little spare time. I work on average 55 hours a week in a high stress environment. Responsible for the entire operation of the production floor of a large printing company. He is working similarly stressful hours. As has so often be seen on this list, we are a community with some individuals who do not always work and play well with others. I have this week (and so has Paul) been in the nasty position of trying to balance long standing dear friendships with disputes created because we provided a place for the exchange of ideas. I will never choose losing friend over anything. It is my hope that when the dust settles that these individuals that I care deeply about will still choose to call me friend. I choose not to be hardened and ignore that there are friendships at stake. One meteorite investigator offended a dealer who is his friend. It occurred because of a photo used on our magazine. I took the blame for not seeing the offending element in the picture. But the thumbnail in our article did not have the element. The larger picture linked to our thumbnail which is not on our server was different. I took the blame I should have looked at every link to see what was there, probably a hundred links in this issue. Today, it is an argument over one person taking unfair advantage to promote themselves and their business; while not mentioning the activities of a similar kind by someone else. And these individuals are all good friends of ours. After raising four children and now having five grandchildren, I have despite my old nature become a pretty open person about my feelings. And all this saddens me and is frankly breaking my heart. To say the least it has taken the joy out of doing the magazine. With that said I offer an apology to anyone feeling slighted by anything we offered in the magazine. I have felt all week that there were maybe still black feathers in my mouth from the big meals of crow I have been eating. Paul and I spoke as I said rather briefly to agreed to this, and ended by saying we would send messages from our guts to the list, without discussing our posts with each other. I'm am just as interested as you to read what he says. Art I apologize to you also, this is the first non-meteoritic email I have ever sent, breaking one more rule today. Jim Tobin [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Meteorite Exchange __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ebay Auctions ended at few
Hello all Some of my NWA lot's ended at few hours, many is go with buy nowif you want look here http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ Regards Matteo = M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EBAY.COM:http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Death Of A Dream
Hello Paul and list, Paul wrote: We had a dream of giving back to the meteorite community some of what we have received. I think you and Tim did just that. It is a shame that Meteorite Times has ended. You and Tim put a lot of work into it and it is/was appreciated by the vast majority of the community. Infighting has always been the worst enemy in our little group. Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Another mag bites the dust!
Jim and Paul and List, WHAT! Meteorite Times is ending? Over egos, personality conflicts, and business. It is of course, it is your right end your website but let me tell you, I think Meteorite Times is (or now, was) one of the best, most entertaining, most informative and freshest sites devoted to meteorites. I will surely miss the site, as will others. The highest compliments I receive regarding my own site are from teachers who tell me they use my site as part of their curriculum on space and astronomy. I am often asked by teachers to recommend other sites, and Meteorite Times quickly became a part of my must visit sites. It is a shame that this resource will no longer be available. Many times, we don't realize that these websites we have created extend beyond those of use who spend our hard-earned money to collect these rocks and beyond the Meteorite Central list server. Still, I understand Jim and Paul's reasoning. I just have one request to make. Jim or Paul, please email me privatly. I would like to know the individuals responsible for causing you so much grief. Whomever they are, I want to to ensure that their particular egos receive no more of my money. I am really upset over this. -Walter Walter Branch, Ph.D. 322 Stephenson Ave., Suite B Savannah, GA 31405 www.branchmeteorites.com - Original Message - From: James Tobin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:54 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Another mag bites the dust! Dear List, After a brief conversation with Paul it was agreed that we would pull the MeteoriteTimes magazine down off the web and pick up our toys and go home. And I had a neat article already written for next month. We tried to offer valuable information and good science. What we fought the whole time was a battle to keep out the personal agendas of dealers who were contributors. Editing and worrying about any information concerning pricing. Careful that there was never mention of others dealers names by dealers, and ebay auction results and many more things. That is beside the fact that some of the material submitted was just badly thought out and poor science. Well, whether out of rushing around with the holidays and trying to get an issue out; we missed a couple things this month. They became matters of concern to certain individuals. Frankly, I have spent the week moderating the disputes of dealers in the meteorite business over things that we had little or no involvement in, except that they were written or done by contributing writers. This was never what the magazine was to be about. None of this has anything to do with the joy of studying meteorites and sharing stories. It involves egos and business. So when Paul called today with another problem created by one of our contributors, we came to the easy decision to drop the magazine. This reflects our general philosophy of life. As hard as we work, if the things we do in our spare time are not fun, we don't do them. Both of us have very little spare time. I work on average 55 hours a week in a high stress environment. Responsible for the entire operation of the production floor of a large printing company. He is working similarly stressful hours. As has so often be seen on this list, we are a community with some individuals who do not always work and play well with others. I have this week (and so has Paul) been in the nasty position of trying to balance long standing dear friendships with disputes created because we provided a place for the exchange of ideas. I will never choose losing friend over anything. It is my hope that when the dust settles that these individuals that I care deeply about will still choose to call me friend. I choose not to be hardened and ignore that there are friendships at stake. One meteorite investigator offended a dealer who is his friend. It occurred because of a photo used on our magazine. I took the blame for not seeing the offending element in the picture. But the thumbnail in our article did not have the element. The larger picture linked to our thumbnail which is not on our server was different. I took the blame I should have looked at every link to see what was there, probably a hundred links in this issue. Today, it is an argument over one person taking unfair advantage to promote themselves and their business; while not mentioning the activities of a similar kind by someone else. And these individuals are all good friends of ours. After raising four children and now having five grandchildren, I have despite my old nature become a pretty open person about my feelings. And all this saddens me and is frankly breaking my heart. To say the least it has taken the joy out of doing the magazine. With that said I offer an apology to anyone feeling slighted by anything we offered in the magazine. I have felt all
[meteorite-list] Death of a dream
Hi Paul and list, how terribly SAD that meteoritetimes has ended !!! I' m fairly new to the fascinating world of meteorites (2 years) and very new to the list (1 week). Meteoritetimes was always very very exciting to read. I printed out every issue and read it again and again: Martins colorful Accretion Desk, Jim's Fragments, Bob's findings, very usful hints at Meteorites 101 by Ron Hartman, Michaels Market Trends, The Meteorite of the Month, Marks Collectors Corner, ... It was very interesting for me to read about Meteorite People: How they started their passion (our passion) towards rocks from space, their favoured meteorite, ... Sorry for not mentioning all names and topics! I always thought that all meteoritelovers stand above jealousy and greed and whatever thing that caused this sad decision. (I still think 99.9% do stand above!) - but where there is light, there is darkness as well. I hope, despite the end of meteoritetimes, in one or the other way - especially as a newcomer - to provit from the enormeous knowledge and experience of the writers of meteoritetimes and of many others here on the list. Many thanks to all of you! Peter Marmet, Bern, Switzerland __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: Another mag bites the dust!
Dear Jim and Paul: I was unpleasantly surprised and dismayed by your posts to the List late last night. You are both well-liked, respected and active members of the meteorite community. Meteorite Times is just the most recent service you've provided. I happen to be well aware of one of the problems that arose out of the current issue -- an article caused an upset between two prominent dealers. Offense was caused more by what was left out of the article, rather than what was included, and that's unfortunate, especially since both parties are friends of yours. It's not enough to warrant cancellation of the entire project! As you both know, I've worked extensively as a writer and editor (and was very pleased indeed to be interviewed by you for MT). It's not always possible -- especially when you're working on a publication in your spare time -- to check every fact, every link. Yes, as editors, you have a responsibility to present accurate and objective information but -- let's face it -- you're not getting paid a full-time wage to produce MT, so some leeway is in order. I think it is well understood in the community that you are both creating MT in your spare time, and out of a desire to share your knowledge and enthusiasm with others. You don't have a full-time proofreader on staff, and you don't have a full time fact-checker on staff. As such, I expect the community could find it in their hearts to offer up a little forgiveness and understanding. (And a few thank yous for previous issues would be in order as well). Those of us who have published a magazine on a regular basis, know what a massive, gruelling, and often thankless undertaking it is. I doubt I could ever be talked into doing it again. Even Joel Schiff's Meteorite -- a publication that is internationally respected and loved by its subscribers -- was once in hot water over a Letter to the Editor that it published innocently; a letter that accidentally offended the family of a prominent meteorite scientist. I mention this not as a criticism of Joel -- who is one of the most universally admired people in the field -- but as an illustration that even the most ethical and responsible publisher is sometimes unaware that one item is going to offend a particular reader. I hope that after you've had some time to reflect -- and after you've read a bunch of other emails like this one -- you'll consider publishing MT again in the future. You can always count on me to produce another 3,000 word interview for you, but I'm not sure that your other readers would stand for it : ) Regards from one of your fans, Geoff Notkin www.paleozoic.org __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Another mag bites the dust!
Jim, Paul, and List: I agree with Walter on this. It's a shame when people freely give to all in this manner and have their good-will treated with bad-will. There are so many ways to make contributions in this field. Jim and Paul found one and did an honorable job at it. Perhaps with encouragement and support they will reconsider. Best, Russ Kempton New England Meteoritical www.meteorlab.com At 10:38 AM 01/09/2003 -0500, you wrote: Jim and Paul and List, WHAT! Meteorite Times is ending? Over egos, personality conflicts, and business. It is of course, it is your right end your website but let me tell you, I think Meteorite Times is (or now, was) one of the best, most entertaining, most informative and freshest sites devoted to meteorites. I will surely miss the site, as will others. The highest compliments I receive regarding my own site are from teachers who tell me they use my site as part of their curriculum on space and astronomy. I am often asked by teachers to recommend other sites, and Meteorite Times quickly became a part of my must visit sites. It is a shame that this resource will no longer be available. Many times, we don't realize that these websites we have created extend beyond those of use who spend our hard-earned money to collect these rocks and beyond the Meteorite Central list server. Still, I understand Jim and Paul's reasoning. I just have one request to make. Jim or Paul, please email me privatly. I would like to know the individuals responsible for causing you so much grief. Whomever they are, I want to to ensure that their particular egos receive no more of my money. I am really upset over this. -Walter Walter Branch, Ph.D. 322 Stephenson Ave., Suite B Savannah, GA 31405 www.branchmeteorites.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] No Longer Hosting A Tucson Information Page
Paul: Held liable? On what basis? If people in the meteorite community are making such threats, it is a sad day indeed! Mark Dear List, Do to the fact that we might be held liable for mentioning one person more than another we will NOT be hosting a Tucson Information page as we have in the past years. How sad... Paul __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- CoreComm Webmail. http://home.core.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] METEORITE TIMES
Walter and List- I am afraid that I am the individual inadvertently responsible for Paul and Jim pulling the plug on Meteorite Times, and I feel so terribly about this. I brought a matter to their attention which was not a matter of ego, but a matter of the misuse of the Market Trends column. Yesterday I wrote the attached letter to Michael Blood, and copied Paul and Jim, as I believed they needed to be made aware of an ethical matter. Subsequently, and most significantly, I explicitly asked Paul and Jim to not fire Blood as I did not want this situation to get overblown. I had no idea that I would also have to mention that they should not eliminate Meteorite Times! Obviously, there was other stuff in the mix for them, but this does not lessen my personal upset. I've implored Paul and Jim to reconsider their decision and hate the idea of feeling as if I'm at all connected to the loss, however inadvertent, to something has become treasured by all of us in the meteorite community. While I cannot be responsible for Blood electing to misuse his column any more than I can be responsible for Paul and Jim electing to close shop, nonetheless I feel terribly...I'm really hurting inside. I am lobbying Paul and Jim vigorously to rescind their decision, and I hope that this state of affairs is temporary given the swell of support now being voiced. I'm truly sorry. Sincerely, Darryl Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 20:53:28 -0500 To: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Darryl Pitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Blood Market Trends Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Michael- I was directed to your Market Trends column in the new Meteorite Times. You have referred to the two of us being competitors in Tucson, and that's fine, but it seems you don't want to compete on a level playing field. Your Market Trends column is the latest case in point. While providing your readers an overview of the upcoming Tucson show, you devote the first part of your column to a self-serving advertisement on your own auction--and completely fail to mention the Macovich sale, which I am informed is not small potatoes. I don't believe that Paul and Jim entrusted you with a column to report on meteorite market trends so you could advance your personal agenda. What's more troubling, however, is the sneaky, clandestine editorializing advancing this agenda. The following paragraph is a case in point: For the first year ever, Mike Farmer will have a room in fact, for that matter, so will Eric Olson, as they are teaming up in room 316 of Inn Suites the room occupied over the last several years by the Labennes. Jim Strope will be displaying a few select pieces in this room, as well, so, THIS WILL CONTINUE TO BE A ROOM WELL WORTH CHECKING OUT. Of course, it's hardly a coincidence that the one room you've written about also happens to be the very same room in which you will be exhibiting the meteorites for your auction! Mike, this is deceptive...and unethical. Room 316 is the one room which you're ethically bound to not write one word about because of the conflict of interests. Anyone in the business of publishing or news dissemination would instantly lose their job over this kind of thing. The bottom line is that you have exploited Meteorite Times--as well as Paul and Jim--and you've betrayed your readers' trust, which is to say nothing of your responsibility to be objective. Look, I really do wish you a lot of luck with your auction, truly. I think you know this. Again, I only wish that you would compete honorably. Sincerely, Darryl __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Death Of A Dream
Jim and Paul, If, due to the STUPIDITY and IMMATURITY of the party(ies) involved your decision is final, then so be it. However, could we ask that you keep the already published issues posted on the website for a few more days to allow the opportunity to print/download articles that may be of interest/use to us? Not realizing that they might all go away some day, many of us probably never bothered to do so, but now we find that we have lost a source of valuable data. Craig McDonald P.S. And to the individual/individuals who caused this fine resource and labor of love to be taken from us, I think you know how those of us out here feel about you even if we don't know exactly who you are. And I suggest you NEVER allow us to find out who you are. For as others have already written, you may have just committed commercial suicide. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Opinions On An Unclassified Saharan
Zelimir Gabelica a écrit: The slices of the unknown, as pictured, very much resemble DAG 430, which is so far classified as C3 UNGR. Jeff inquired: I would take a somewhat semi-educated guess at an LL4 Bonsoir Zelimir, Hello Jeff, Hi List, My (equally semi-educated) guess would also be: LL4. I don't think it's something like DaG 430 because it lacks the char-coal like matrix. I have a small 1.06 gram slice of NWA 806 - an LL4 (acquired from Jim Strope) and its chondrules are the same gray color although the matrix of NWA 806 is reddish. NWA 799 - an LL6 I got from Mike Farmer also shows such gray chondrules. Best regards, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Opinions On An Unclassified Saharan
Hello Jeff and all, Except for the iron staining, your photo looks very similar to NWA531, an LL4 that can be seen on Scott Brey's website. The link to that site is: http://www.planetbrey.com/ Hope this helps. Regards, Frank - Original Message - From: Bernd Pauli HD [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Zelimir Gabelica [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Jeff Kuyken [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Opinions On An Unclassified Saharan Hello Jeff, Hi List, My (equally semi-educated) guess would also be: LL4. I don't think it's something like DaG 430 because it lacks the char-coal like matrix. I have a small 1.06 gram slice of NWA 806 - an LL4 (acquired from Jim Strope) and its chondrules are the same gray color although the matrix of NWA 806 is reddish. NWA 799 - an LL6 I got from Mike Farmer also shows such gray chondrules. Best regards, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Death Of A Dream
Such petty little things, these people that would kill something so valuable due to their own vanity. I have no idea what caused the fight/problem, but feel if the parties causing the problem would SIMPLY PULL THEIR OWN HEADS OUT OF THEIR ASSES, the world might be a better place. Someone needs to post a sign for this list that says: CHECK YOUR EGO AT THE DOOR UPON ENTERING!!! I have been a member of this list for about 3 years, lived through the name calling and arguments about so many stupid petty things. I too have opened my mouth only to put both feet in at times. The MeteoriteTimes was one of the best things to come out of this ragtag group of all knowing egomaniacs in the past 3 years of my existence here, along with the IMCA, which by the way was also almost killed by more STUPIDITY. I loved the MeteoriteTimes, so did my 8 year old son as did many others on this list. Such a shame that a few so called DEALERS again can, with malice and nothing but self centered bullshit drive something good from the group. Paul and Jim Please reconsider. I am not even totally sure what the argument is all about, or who did what to whom or why it was done or what started the whole thing in the first place, I just do not want to see the end of The MeteoriteTimes and hope that you may reconsider. Maybe if you make the readers aware that some articles are the sole work and responsibility of the writer and not necessarily the opinion or endorsed by the editors it will help. If someone wants to contribute in a manner that may/will cause a problem then they should be REQUIRED to post their VALID email address in the article and those that are unhappy with what they say can flame the writer and not the publishers. Whomever is responsible for this lack of sense to cause this much grief the Jim and Paul would end this project you should be ashamed of yourself/selves. Again I ask you both to reconsider and continue the project. I would be glad to help in any way that I can be of any assistance. I know some HTML, I can read and use a spellchecker and have some free time in the evenings being self employed. Whomever started this and caused the end of the MeteoriteTimes you owe everyone on this list AN APOLOGY and most of all you OWE A BIGGER APOLOGY to Jim and Paul. GET A FREAKIN' GRIP ON YOURSELF/SELVES. Last time I looked the universe was not revolving around any particular human and it is wrong for you to think it is revolving around you. Anyone that takes any particular offense to my opinions stated in this email can kiss my *ss. I am so tired of so many petty little things causing the end or near end of the good things that come out of this list. I am tired of the few ruining things for the many. I am tired of having to delete the annual flame wars and name calling sessions that seem to sprout on an all too regular basis. I am only hours from Tucson and was actually thinking of driving down this year to see what it is all about. Now I wonder if it is all worth the effort, will there be all of this petty crap there too? Anyone unhappy with my opinions may email me DIRECTLY, do not waste the time of the others on the list if all you need to do is complain to me. Jim, Paul and anyone I may have left out that was producing the MeteoriteTimesPLEASE, PLEASE RECONSIDER. If I can help just ask. Thanks for listening, Mark M. Phoenix AZ - Original Message - From: Paul Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:48 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] The Death Of A Dream Dear List and MT Writers, I just got off the phone with Jim and I regret to inform you that MeteoriteTimes.com died tonight. We had a dream of giving back to the meteorite community some of what we have received. Jim and I spent much of what little free time we had on producing the magazine. What we lacked was the time it takes to police each and every word, each and every picture, each and every link. We lacked the time and clairvoyance to realize when material was not mentioned. We did not spend our free time and creative energies to be spoken to as we have been. We did not spend our free time and creative energies to cause infighting between others. We did not spend our free time and creative energies to have to bother the list with e-mails like this. To the vast majority who will miss the magazine, I truly apologize and I'm sorry. Paul __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Did Pluto Take a Punch?
http://skyandtelescope.com/news/current/article_839_1.asp Did Pluto Take a Punch? By Govert Schilling Sky Telescope January 8, 2003 If David J. Tholen (University of Hawaii) is right, Pluto was probably hit by a small Kuiper Belt object in the not-too-distant past. One consequence of that collision, he argues, is seen in the planet's motion - Pluto and its satellite Charon now waltz around each other in slightly out-of-round orbits. And since tidal forces in the tight planet-moon system should damp out any deviations from purly circular orbits within 10 million years or so, the impact must have occurred relatively recently. It could have happened a century ago, Tholen says. The first hints of Charon's slightly odd orbit came during the 1990s, when Tholen and Marc W. Buie (Lowell Observatory) tracked the moon's motion using the Hubble Space Telescope. They found an orbital eccentricity near 0.0075 instead of zero, the expected value. However, due to the great distance involved even HST could not resolve bright and dark patches on Pluto's surface. Consequently, Tholen explains, We measured Charon's distance to Pluto's center-of-light, not to its center-of-mass. Luckily, a series of mutual eclipses of the two objects in the late 1980s had enabled Buie to derive a crude albedo map for Pluto, so the effect could be corrected for. But even then a small eccentricity of 0.003 remained - Charon's orbit truly seems to be ever so slightly out of round. If verified, the eccentricity implies an impactor that was many tens of kilometers across, which most likely hit Pluto. Between April 2001 and April 2002, Tholen used adaptive optics on the 8-meter Gillett (Gemini North) telescope atop Mauna Kea, Hawaii, to repeat the measurements. It's work in progress, he told astronomers this week at the AAS meeting in Seattle, but so far his results are consistent with the earlier findings. Meanwhile, Buie has reanalyzed the old eclipse observations, and while the resulting albedo map is of higher quality, he doubts that it has enough credibility to do the calculations right. To try to eliminate the remaining uncertainty, Buie has observed Pluto and Charon repeatedly with Hubble's new Advanced Camera for Surveys (ACS). More data is coming down this spring, and he hopes to complete his analysis by year's end. As for the cause of the eccentricity, Buie believes a mere close encounter with a Kuiper Belt object would do the trick. The probability of an impact is very small, he notes. But his observing partner thinks a direct hit is not so far-fetched, statistically speaking, and it might also explain some of the striking brightness variations on Pluto's surface. Impacts do happen, Tholen stresses, noting Comet Shoemaker-Levy 9's fateful encounter with Jupiter in 1994. All it takes for this model to work is one event. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Isotope Ratio Measurements Firm Up Knowledge of Earth's Formation
Isotope Ratio Measurements Firm Up Knowledge of Earth's Formation Physics Today January 2003 New measurements on primitive meteorites suggest that Earth's core formed earlier than was previously thought. -- Richard Fitzgerald A complicated interplay of processes occurred 4.6 billion years ago in the early stages of the Solar System as material from the initial solar nebula condensed and collided to form aggregates, planetesimals, and eventually planets. And on Earth as well as the other terrestrial planets and the larger asteroids, heat from accretion and from the decay of short-lived isotopes such as aluminum- 26 was sufficient to melt--at least partially--the assembled material, which led to the segregation of the iron-rich core and the silicate mantle. Determining when Earth's core formed can provide constraints on models of the planet's formation. Studying Earth's isotopic composition can provide such constraints, but this approach has led to conflicting answers. Recently, three reports--by Ronny Schoenberg, Ken Collerson, and coworkers at the University of Queensland and the University of Bern;[1] by Qingzhu Yin, Stein Jacobsen, and colleagues at Harvard University and the Ecole Normale Supérieure in Lyon, France;[2] and by Thorsten Kleine, Klaus Mezger, and coworkers at the University of Münster and the University of Cologne[3]--have independently established a chronometry, based on careful measurements of tungsten isotopic compositions, that appears to have settled the timescales. The core of the matter As the Solar System formed, according to prevalent models, Earth accreted rapidly--over a period of a few million to a few tens of millions of years.[4] But confirming such models requires resolving what happened in the first few tens of millions of years in the 4.6- billion-year-old Solar System. The hafnium-tungsten (Hf-W) system is well suited for dating the formation of Earth's core. One Hf isotope, 182Hf, decays to stable 182W with a halflife of 9 million years. Produced like other heavy elements (including 182W) in supernova explosions, 182Hf was present in the original solar nebula, but the initial supply of 182Hf has long since decayed. Thus, its concentration can't be extrapolated back, unlike the concentrations of uranium-235 and uranium-238--whose decays to lead-207 and lead-206 form another chronometer of the early Solar System. The erstwhile presence of 182Hf is revealed, however, in the isotopic composition of W. Today's deviations from the average Solar System ratio of 182W to other stable, nonradiogenic W isotopes reflect variations in the Hf/W ratio in the earliest period of the Solar System. The chemistry of the Hf-W system also is vital to dating core formation. Lithophile (stone loving) Hf stayed in the silicate mantle when the metallic core formed. Tungsten, in contrast, is moderately siderophile (iron loving), preferentially dissolving in the metallic core. Thus, following the core formation, the mantle had a higher Hf/W ratio than the core. And so, if Earth's mantle and core have different 182W abundances, mantle-core separation must have occurred before the 182Hf vanished. Tungsten samples are easily obtained from the silicate Earth--just break open an incandescent light bulb--but not from the ferrous core. Fortunately, there is another source of W samples that can be tapped: meteorites. Carbonaceous chondrites are a class of primitive meteorites that are widely thought to have the same chemical composition (except for volatile elements such as hydrogen, helium, and the alkalis) as the solar nebula from which Earth and the other planets formed. Such meteorites can thus serve as proxies for establishing a baseline from which to look for deviations in W isotope ratios. (For more on what can be learned from meteorites, see the article by Thomas Bernatowicz and Robert Walker in Physics Today, December 1997, page 26.) Measuring W isotope ratios in chondrites is challenging, however. The assays require a sensitive mass spectrometer to detect differences of less than one part in 104 in W isotope abudances, and the chondrites themselves contain W only at the parts-per-billion level. Furthermore, corrections must be made for instrument effects and for background signals from other elements. Following reports[5] in the mid-1990s by Jacobsen and Charles Harper (Harvard) that iron meteorites--thought to be the cores of early planetesimals--showed a deficiency in 182W, Der-Chuen Lee and Alex Halliday (then at the University of Michigan) reported the first measurements of the 182W abundance in carbonaceous chondrites; they found essentially no difference from the composition of the silicate Earth.[6] The apparent absence of any significant deviation indicated that the fractionation of Hf and W due to core formation must have occurred after the 182Hf was extinct. Lee and Halliday thus concluded that,
Re: [meteorite-list] The Death Of A Dream
Mark put it more colorfully and succinctly than I ever could. Just put ditto marks underneath the entire thing for my part. Due to various crises in my family's life, I will be unable to attend Tucson this year. MeteoriteTimes and this list are (were) my best ties to the rest of the meteoric community, as isolated as I am, and I am shocked and saddened to see another worthy effort bite it because of the regrettably common infighting and petty bickering. Tracy Latimer __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Another mag bites the dust!
Some days the music makers and the dreamers get drowned out by the noise makers. This is a real shame and I hope the individuals responsible can feel proud now. Makes me sick, little children. -- Rob Wesel - We are the music makers...and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 Hello Jim and list I felt you guys did a stand up job, with all the difficulties and egos. Its a shame that this has to happen. I'm too new to this list to know much, but I sure am going to miss the stories of the field trips and all the articles and techniques. So, guess I'll go back to my corner since I won't make any Arizona show this year and hope that stories of the field trip are fun and put up before the list is no more. Mark - Original Message - From: James Tobin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 10:54 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Another mag bites the dust! Dear List, After a brief conversation with Paul it was agreed that we would pull the MeteoriteTimes magazine down off the web and pick up our toys and go home. And I had a neat article already written for next month. We tried to offer valuable information and good science. What we fought the whole time was a battle to keep out the personal agendas of dealers who were contributors. Editing and worrying about any information concerning pricing. Careful that there was never mention of others dealers names by dealers, and ebay auction results and many more things. That is beside the fact that some of the material submitted was just badly thought out and poor science. Well, whether out of rushing around with the holidays and trying to get an issue out; we missed a couple things this month. They became matters of concern to certain individuals. Frankly, I have spent the week moderating the disputes of dealers in the meteorite business over things that we had little or no involvement in, except that they were written or done by contributing writers. This was never what the magazine was to be about. None of this has anything to do with the joy of studying meteorites and sharing stories. It involves egos and business. So when Paul called today with another problem created by one of our contributors, we came to the easy decision to drop the magazine. This reflects our general philosophy of life. As hard as we work, if the things we do in our spare time are not fun, we don't do them. Both of us have very little spare time. I work on average 55 hours a week in a high stress environment. Responsible for the entire operation of the production floor of a large printing company. He is working similarly stressful hours. As has so often be seen on this list, we are a community with some individuals who do not always work and play well with others. I have this week (and so has Paul) been in the nasty position of trying to balance long standing dear friendships with disputes created because we provided a place for the exchange of ideas. I will never choose losing friend over anything. It is my hope that when the dust settles that these individuals that I care deeply about will still choose to call me friend. I choose not to be hardened and ignore that there are friendships at stake. One meteorite investigator offended a dealer who is his friend. It occurred because of a photo used on our magazine. I took the blame for not seeing the offending element in the picture. But the thumbnail in our article did not have the element. The larger picture linked to our thumbnail which is not on our server was different. I took the blame I should have looked at every link to see what was there, probably a hundred links in this issue. Today, it is an argument over one person taking unfair advantage to promote themselves and their business; while not mentioning the activities of a similar kind by someone else. And these individuals are all good friends of ours. After raising four children and now having five grandchildren, I have despite my old nature become a pretty open person about my feelings. And all this saddens me and is frankly breaking my heart. To say the least it has taken the joy out of doing the magazine. With that said I offer an apology to anyone feeling slighted by anything we offered in the magazine. I have felt all week that there were maybe still black feathers in my mouth from the big meals of crow I have been eating. Paul and I spoke as I said rather briefly to agreed to this, and ended by saying we would send messages from our guts to the list, without discussing our posts with each other. I'm am just as interested as you to read what he says. Art I apologize to you also, this is the first non-meteoritic email I have ever sent, breaking one more rule today. Jim Tobin [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Meteorite Exchange
[meteorite-list] The Death Of A Dream
Dear Craig, Mark, Geoff, Walter and all list members who have benefited so much from the selfless efforts of Paul Harris and Jim Tobin, I am just sick upon reading Pual Jim's posts. I am afraid I was one of the authors mentioned, by citing my auction and not mentioning Darryl's in the same article. Though I have mentioned his auctions many times in my articles, I fear he took great offense at my failure to do so this time. Paul and Jim are the last people on earth I would want to see hurt like this. I feel sick to my stomach. I tend to write about whatever I am feeling enthused about at the time and have always been totally undisguised in openly mentioning what I am up to, myself. I fear this carefree style has resulted in a response that hurt two of the best people I know. This month I focused on new changes that would be at the Tucson Show - and certainly mentioned changes in my own venue. Next month, immediately before the show, I was going to touch on all the standard venues not to be missed. I guess I should have informed Darryl of that in advance. I have, many times, written of how Darryl always brings some of the most beautiful specimens in the world to the show. In this particular issue I also wrote about new ventures of Bob Haag, Eric Olson, Jim Strope, Mike Farmer, the Hupe brothers, Adam and Greg. I guess all other dealers could have been offended. It is difficult to know where such notification is required but, as I said, my plans for the Feb. issue were to address all elements of the show not particularly new this year, but which are, of course, not to be missed. For those who may have not gotten around to reading the article, METEORITE TIMES is now down, so, I have posted the article at which offense was taken. The full article, exactly as published can be seen at: http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/MMT.html I would like to propose the following to Paul and Jim: PLEASE DO NOT FOLD YOUR TERRIFIC METEORITE TIMES! Instead, please accept my resignation from my column. I don't know who was accused of bad science or who posted a photo link at which someone took offense, but my guess is they would happily resign, as well, to see the invaluable fruits of your labor continue. Never, ever, would I have exposed you to any grief, had I seen it coming. My deepest regrets are extended to every person who has worked so hard submitting fine articles to the publication, and, of course, to all of you, the readers. We all have benefited so much from the thankless labor of Paul and Jim. Perhaps, if we all let them know they are appreciated and needed they might possibly reconsider? Sincerely, Michael Blood __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Please, Out Of Respect For MeteoriteTimes.com
Dear list, First a huge thank you to all those who said thanks! For those who think they know the whole story and can point fingers send hateful e-mails to others, then start your hate with Jim and I. Our decision was based on many things. But NOT because of a single person or event. PLEASE STOP ALL THIS NEGATIVE ENERGY Jim and I are going to Tucson. We are going to see as many Dealers as we can. We are going to have a great time at Larry, Twink and Jim's Party. We'll party harty at Geoff and Steve's Party! We'll enjoy as usual both Michael's and Darryl's Auctions. Both looking for deals and drooling as usual. Have a great day! Paul ** Paul Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jim Tobin [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Meteorite Exchange, Inc. http://www.meteorite.com PMB#455 P.O. Box 7000, Redondo Beach, CA 90277 USA *** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] International Meteor Conference 2003
http://aipsoe.aip.de/~rend/2003imc.html International Meteor Conference 2003 General remarks The International Meteor Organization (IMO) will hold its next International Meteor Conference (IMC) in Bollmannsruh, Germany, on 18-21 September 2003. The location is about 40 km west of Berlin, or about 20 km northeast of the city of Brandenburg. The IMC 2003 is organized by the Arbeitskreis Meteore e.V. This page provides information for people interested in the IMC and preparing their travel and stay in Germany. Please look for updates of the contents. (Pre-)registered participants will also receive mail messages if important information is added. Registration If you wish to attend the conference, please fill out a registration form and send it to: Ina Rendtel Mehlbeerenweg 5 D-14469 Potsdam, Germany The registration fee includes lodging, meals and the Proceedings. We offer an early registration fee of 115 EUR if your registration reaches us by 11 July 2003. Participants registrating after that pay a late registration fee of 130 EUR. Reduced fee: we are currently checking possibilities for a limited number of reduced registration fees. People interested in such a reduced fee should indicate this on the (pre-)registration. The details will be mentioned here as soon as they are defined. Please note that the IMO also offers travel support (guidelines to be published in the IMO Journal WGN). Travel to the IMC location Bollmannsruh is located about 20 km northeast of Brandenburg at the lake Beetzsee. We will organize transfer for participants from the Brandenburg (main) railway station (Brandenburg Hbf) on Thursday, 18 September 2003. People arriving on Friday (or later) should arrange a pickup with the organizers. However, there is also a public bus transport from Brandenburg (railway station) to Bollmannsruh. People arriving by plane at one of the Berlin airports (Tegel, Schönefeld, Tempelhof) should go to the Berlin-Zoo (Zoologischer Garten) train station. Here you reach trains to the city of Brandenburg (RE1) leaving every hour. Detailed information will be added later after the time schedule for September 2003 is available. We also provide road and other travel information through this web site later. Local organizing committee Several members of the Arbeitskreis Meteore living near Berlin are involved in the preparations for the IMC 2003: * Jürgen Rendtel, Marquardt * Ina Rendtel, Potsdam * Rainer Arlt, Berlin Please do not hesitate to contact us: by e-mail, regular mail: Arbeitskreis Meteore, PF 600118, D-14401 Potsdam, Germany or phone +49 33208 50753 (evening) or +49 331 7499356 (daytime). __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: The Death Of A Dream
Michael, You sound very sincere and I am now starting to get more info on what happened. Maybe it may have helped to mention your intentions to discuss more items in the next months article. Something like: Next Month...The Complete Listing of All the Tucson Shows Dealers, or something that let others know that there was more and more complete information to come. It seems as though some of the list members need to toughen their skin a little. As for someone saying that someone else's Science was Incomplete that seems to be a dumb and a true statement at the same time. To MEALL Science is incomplete...I am no Scientist, but REAL Science to me should ALWAYS lead to MORE questions than answers and MORE Science. No Study should/could ever be totally complete as I feel, especially with Meteorites that there is a 100 years worth of learning in every stone that is recovered. How could the science about ANY Meteorite be complete when we have so few and know so little about them? I hold no one person to blame for Jim and Paul's decision, but we all need to be a little more understanding, and a little less trouble for everyone on the list...me included. We have one of the greatest conglomerations of minds, talents and ideas gathered here, no one person better or worse than the other, all pursuing something we love. We have the opportunity to spread knowledge, exchange thoughts and ideas in a way and by a method that did not exist even 25 years ago. With that in mind we all need to be more tolerant, more understanding and less easily bruised by others. REMEMBER Humans are PRONE to ERRORS, when you stop making mistakesyour dead. Darryl has offered to send me the email that he sent so that I know more of what this is about so I can learn from it...not blame anybody. I just want the MeteoriteTimes to live on. Its done, lets move on, and lets in return help Jim and Paul as you and others have been to keep the MeteoriteTimes alive. And others on the list TAKE NOTICE!! The info in the MeteoriteTimes may not ALWAYS be complete, NOT ALWAYS tell the ENTIRE story and if you feel that you need to add or correct something, DO IT IN A POSITIVE MANNER. Because as we all now know.The MeteoriteTimes MAY NOT ALWAYS BE Sincerely, Mark M. Phoenix AZ - Original Message - From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mark Miconi [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Paul Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 11:18 AM Subject: The Death Of A Dream Dear Craig, Mark, Geoff, Walter and all list members who have benefited so much from the selfless efforts of Paul Harris and Jim Tobin, I am just sick upon reading Pual Jim's posts. I am afraid I was one of the authors mentioned, by citing my auction and not mentioning Darryl's in the same article. Though I have mentioned his auctions many times in my articles, I fear he took great offense at my failure to do so this time. Paul and Jim are the last people on earth I would want to see hurt like this. I feel sick to my stomach. I tend to write about whatever I am feeling enthused about at the time and have always been totally undisguised in openly mentioning what I am up to, myself. I fear this carefree style has resulted in a response that hurt two of the best people I know. This month I focused on new changes that would be at the Tucson Show - and certainly mentioned changes in my own venue. Next month, immediately before the show, I was going to touch on all the standard venues not to be missed. I guess I should have informed Darryl of that in advance. I have, many times, written of how Darryl always brings some of the most beautiful specimens in the world to the show. In this particular issue I also wrote about new ventures of Bob Haag, Eric Olson, Jim Strope, Mike Farmer, the Hupe brothers, Adam and Greg. I guess all other dealers could have been offended. It is difficult to know where such notification is required but, as I said, my plans for the Feb. issue were to address all elements of the show not particularly new this year, but which are, of course, not to be missed. For those who may have not gotten around to reading the article, METEORITE TIMES is now down, so, I have posted the article at which offense was taken. The full article, exactly as published can be seen at: http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/MMT.html I would like to propose the following to Paul and Jim: PLEASE DO NOT FOLD YOUR TERRIFIC METEORITE TIMES! Instead, please accept my resignation from my column. I don't know who was accused of bad science or who posted a photo link at which someone took offense, but my guess is they would happily resign, as well, to see the invaluable fruits of your labor continue. Never, ever, would I have exposed you to any grief, had I seen it coming. My deepest regrets are extended to every person who has worked so hard submitting fine articles to the
[meteorite-list] Re: The Death Of A Dream
And do not resignthat will not help. Print an explanation and go forward. Resigning only deprives us all of what you have to contribute, it doesn't have to be perfect, but if it is not there, then it is way less than perfect. Mistakes are commonlearning from them so that others benefit from the mistake is very uncommon. Thanks, Mark M. - Original Message - From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mark Miconi [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Paul Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 11:18 AM Subject: The Death Of A Dream Dear Craig, Mark, Geoff, Walter and all list members who have benefited so much from the selfless efforts of Paul Harris and Jim Tobin, I am just sick upon reading Pual Jim's posts. I am afraid I was one of the authors mentioned, by citing my auction and not mentioning Darryl's in the same article. Though I have mentioned his auctions many times in my articles, I fear he took great offense at my failure to do so this time. Paul and Jim are the last people on earth I would want to see hurt like this. I feel sick to my stomach. I tend to write about whatever I am feeling enthused about at the time and have always been totally undisguised in openly mentioning what I am up to, myself. I fear this carefree style has resulted in a response that hurt two of the best people I know. This month I focused on new changes that would be at the Tucson Show - and certainly mentioned changes in my own venue. Next month, immediately before the show, I was going to touch on all the standard venues not to be missed. I guess I should have informed Darryl of that in advance. I have, many times, written of how Darryl always brings some of the most beautiful specimens in the world to the show. In this particular issue I also wrote about new ventures of Bob Haag, Eric Olson, Jim Strope, Mike Farmer, the Hupe brothers, Adam and Greg. I guess all other dealers could have been offended. It is difficult to know where such notification is required but, as I said, my plans for the Feb. issue were to address all elements of the show not particularly new this year, but which are, of course, not to be missed. For those who may have not gotten around to reading the article, METEORITE TIMES is now down, so, I have posted the article at which offense was taken. The full article, exactly as published can be seen at: http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/MMT.html I would like to propose the following to Paul and Jim: PLEASE DO NOT FOLD YOUR TERRIFIC METEORITE TIMES! Instead, please accept my resignation from my column. I don't know who was accused of bad science or who posted a photo link at which someone took offense, but my guess is they would happily resign, as well, to see the invaluable fruits of your labor continue. Never, ever, would I have exposed you to any grief, had I seen it coming. My deepest regrets are extended to every person who has worked so hard submitting fine articles to the publication, and, of course, to all of you, the readers. We all have benefited so much from the thankless labor of Paul and Jim. Perhaps, if we all let them know they are appreciated and needed they might possibly reconsider? Sincerely, Michael Blood __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Please, Out Of Respect For MeteoriteTimes.com
Hello Paul, I hope you did not offend any of the cry babies on the list with this statement! Jim and I are going to Tucson. We are going to see as many Dealers as we can. We are going to have a great time at Larry, Twink and Jim's Party. We'll party harty at Geoff and Steve's Party! We'll enjoy as usual both Michael's and Darryl's Auctions. Both looking for deals and drooling as usual. I would hate for some one not to go Geoff's and Steve's party, because they want to have a great time! Also they might not want to go to Larry's, Twink's and Jims party, because they want to party hardy! Why can't we all just get a long? I love your magazine! I have learned a lot from it, and always look forward to the next issue! I wish you and Jim would keep it going and not let the Little old ladies and all their whining ruin it for the rest of us! Thanks, Tom The proudest member of the I.M.C.A. #6168 From: Paul Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Please, Out Of Respect For MeteoriteTimes.com Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 12:16:58 -0800 Dear list, First a huge thank you to all those who said thanks! For those who think they know the whole story and can point fingers send hateful e-mails to others, then start your hate with Jim and I. Our decision was based on many things. But NOT because of a single person or event. PLEASE STOP ALL THIS NEGATIVE ENERGY Jim and I are going to Tucson. We are going to see as many Dealers as we can. We are going to have a great time at Larry, Twink and Jim's Party. We'll party harty at Geoff and Steve's Party! We'll enjoy as usual both Michael's and Darryl's Auctions. Both looking for deals and drooling as usual. Have a great day! Paul ** Paul Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jim Tobin [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Meteorite Exchange, Inc. http://www.meteorite.com PMB#455 P.O. Box 7000, Redondo Beach, CA 90277 USA *** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Looking for Searsmont
Hi list ! Has anybody a piece of the Searsmont meteorite for sale ? Thanks, Christian IMCA #2673 www.austromet.com Ing. Christian ANGER Korngasse 6 2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg AUSTRIA email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Death Of A Dream
Greetings Paul, Jim and List, I have not as of yet read all of the responses to this issue, but I agree completely with Mark's sentiments. This is truly a sad situation and I also implore Jim and Paul to reconsider their decision. I am not a big dealer nor neccesarly what might be considered a big buyer, but rather just one of the many small collectors and lovers of these magnificent rocks from space. Paul and Mark, I want you to know that your contributions to the meteorite community have, as I'm sure you already know gone above and beyond the call. Your online magazine has been an irreplaceable source of information and knowledge. It's loss, under these circumstances is inexcusable. (I speak here to those dealers responsible). I've been collecting meteorites for a little over four years and have for the last eight months been saving my nickels and dimes and planning my first trip to Tuscon. Again, I'm not a mover and shaker, but, this being my first opportunity to be there, I plan on flinging a considerable amount of $$ at the Tucson show and rest assured, NOT ONE DIME of my hard earned money will be seen by any dealer responsible for this tragic loss. I apologize to the List if any consider this to be off topic. In my honest opinion this is about as ON TOPIC as it gets. There is about to be a horrible loss to the meteorite community and once again egos and agendas are at the very heart of the matter. This is truly a sad affair. Again I apologize for my ramblings but this whole thing really gripes my ass. For the dealer/dealer's responsible, please see Mark's comments for more complete details. Steve --- Mark Miconi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Such petty little things, these people that would kill something so valuable due to their own vanity. I have no idea what caused the fight/problem, but feel if the parties causing the problem would SIMPLY PULL THEIR OWN HEADS OUT OF THEIR ASSES, the world might be a better place. Someone needs to post a sign for this list that says: CHECK YOUR EGO AT THE DOOR UPON ENTERING!!! I have been a member of this list for about 3 years, lived through the name calling and arguments about so many stupid petty things. I too have opened my mouth only to put both feet in at times. The MeteoriteTimes was one of the best things to come out of this ragtag group of all knowing egomaniacs in the past 3 years of my existence here, along with the IMCA, which by the way was also almost killed by more STUPIDITY. I loved the MeteoriteTimes, so did my 8 year old son as did many others on this list. Such a shame that a few so called DEALERS again can, with malice and nothing but self centered bullshit drive something good from the group. Paul and Jim Please reconsider. I am not even totally sure what the argument is all about, or who did what to whom or why it was done or what started the whole thing in the first place, I just do not want to see the end of The MeteoriteTimes and hope that you may reconsider. Maybe if you make the readers aware that some articles are the sole work and responsibility of the writer and not necessarily the opinion or endorsed by the editors it will help. If someone wants to contribute in a manner that may/will cause a problem then they should be REQUIRED to post their VALID email address in the article and those that are unhappy with what they say can flame the writer and not the publishers. Whomever is responsible for this lack of sense to cause this much grief the Jim and Paul would end this project you should be ashamed of yourself/selves. Again I ask you both to reconsider and continue the project. I would be glad to help in any way that I can be of any assistance. I know some HTML, I can read and use a spellchecker and have some free time in the evenings being self employed. Whomever started this and caused the end of the MeteoriteTimes you owe everyone on this list AN APOLOGY and most of all you OWE A BIGGER APOLOGY to Jim and Paul. GET A FREAKIN' GRIP ON YOURSELF/SELVES. Last time I looked the universe was not revolving around any particular human and it is wrong for you to think it is revolving around you. Anyone that takes any particular offense to my opinions stated in this email can kiss my *ss. I am so tired of so many petty little things causing the end or near end of the good things that come out of this list. I am tired of the few ruining things for the many. I am tired of having to delete the annual flame wars and name calling sessions that seem to sprout on an all too regular basis. I am only hours from Tucson and was actually thinking of driving down this year to see what it is all about. Now I wonder if it is all worth the effort, will there be all of this petty crap there too? Anyone unhappy with my opinions may email me DIRECTLY, do not waste the time of the others on the list if all you need to do is complain to
[meteorite-list] Death of a Dream
Hi list, I think before we go on picking on Michael Blood's and Darryl's head we should read very carefully what they wrote here on the list. Maybe it had been better that Michael published his text on this list (instead of the meteoritetimes). Maybe Darryl overreacted a bit but I can feel that they feel deeply sorry for what they caused. I think what they write sounds absolutely honest and we should accept their appologies. I remember that in the last issue of meteoritetimes there was not one single letter to the editor. Everybody - including myself - was thinking: what a great mag - but nobody took 2 minutes to tell them how great the mag is. This reminds me of a man who said after the death of his wife: You can't believe how much I loved her - I almost told her... Peter M. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] sad
Hello, I just thought that the last few posts (the demise of MT) were amongst the saddest posts I have ever seen sent to the list ho hum A little bit of us has died now that MT is no longer with us. We are poorer for that. dave __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Another mag bites the dust!
Jim and Paul, After reading most of the posts related to this most tragic event I would ask you to reconsider your decision to close down this informative online publication. I can also offer what I think is a reasonable solution to the problems. I know there may be other items that I am not aware of. First, your effort must have been great in producing this as you have so stated, taking much time. I always wondered how you could do this and appreciated the time you must of spent and even wondered how long it could last. I would suggest that rather than having a monthly posting, have a quarterly posting. This would give you time to go over articles and scan for possible petty violations that cause some of the non-sense. It would also make it less of a job. Second before publishing this to the world, place it on a site that those who have a stake in all this and might feel the need to check out articles that might make them look bad or left out or what ever reasons they might have, to have the chance to scan and get back to you in a weeks time or so. If they don't get back in that week then no changes would need to occur (or would be allowed to occur as they had their chance) or if they do want changes then perhaps you can contact the parties and make reasonable corrections. If the parties feel the need to keep changing articles or can't seem to agree, just leave'm out of the darn thing. The dealers and people who engage in this petty form of arrogance don't seem to realize this DRIVES collectors and POTENTIAL collectors out of our hobby. After all who wants to be involved with less than professional behavior. Who wants to buy from selfish, self righteous, egotistical sellers??? It is high time that people realize this is only hurting the hobby and in the long run will ruin the hobby to the point that it may never be the same again. There are a lot of dealers out there these days and probably more than the hobby and science will support. I would like to see a return to professionalism, honesty and integrity and above all, promoting the hobby first and yourself second. Where there is money at stake there will always be those willing to do anything to steal more of the pie than they need to eat. I hope that this sad event will finally weigh heavy enough on the powers that be to realize that in the long run, promoting the hobby and being professional will bring in more new collectors and grow the hobby than the other way around. If this has offended anyone I am sorry to a point. It isn't aimed at any individual but rather at the hobby and those of US who deal. It is a wake up call. Lets try something different and keep things on a positive note. All my best! --AL Mitterling __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] sorry to see a great magazine go away
Hi there list. I am sorry also to see a great online publication go by the way of the edsel. I hope you guys can maybe try and give it another go. It ranks right up there with meteorite magazine. There has been some great emails from some great people who know alot more about this hobby than I'll ever hope of knowing. Keep showing your support for a great magazine. It has diffenently helped me. I hope to see a come back. Hell, if micael jordan can come back, (3 times even), I know you guys can. Thanks for a great magazine. steve arnold, chicago, usa!Steve r. Arnold, Chicago, il, 60107 The midwest meteorite collector! I.M.C.A. member #6728 Website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.comDo you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
RE: [meteorite-list] The Death Of A Dream
Hello List, Sigh, the loss of MT will be felt by all - the List, collectors, dealers, educators, novices, strollers of the 'net and the merely meteoritically curious. Jim, Paul, I want to thank you for sharing your dream, enthusiasm, knowledge, and most importantly, free time with and on behalf of us. It is not worth MT continuing if it brings you angst and dread - life is too short and you deserve far better. People who volunteer, unfortunately, carry the same, if not greater risks in carrying out their endeavor. Your dream as evidenced by the wonderful issues of MT was to create an open, not for profit information forum using the power of the Internet. Unfortunately, circumstances combined to defeat your purpose. I want to formally applaud the correspondence of Michael Blood and Darryl Macovich - it is a rare day when men come forward in a public forum as they did. I for one feel they are being truthful in this matter. Maybe from the ashes of MT another infonet meteorite magazine will arise. If so, let us all remember what has happened here so as to not repeat history again. Maybe an editorial board can help to spread the responsibilities of proof reading and fact checking; maybe readers can express their appreciation in letters and volunteering to help. One thing is certain. MT, through the efforts of Paul and Jim, aided by others, set a pretty high mark for others to follow. And of that they can be proud. All the best, Greg Redfern IMCA #5781 www.meteoritecollectors.org -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Paul Harris Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:49 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] The Death Of A Dream Dear List and MT Writers, I just got off the phone with Jim and I regret to inform you that MeteoriteTimes.com died tonight. We had a dream of giving back to the meteorite community some of what we have received. Jim and I spent much of what little free time we had on producing the magazine. What we lacked was the time it takes to police each and every word, each and every picture, each and every link. We lacked the time and clairvoyance to realize when material was not mentioned. We did not spend our free time and creative energies to be spoken to as we have been. We did not spend our free time and creative energies to cause infighting between others. We did not spend our free time and creative energies to have to bother the list with e-mails like this. To the vast majority who will miss the magazine, I truly apologize and I'm sorry. Paul __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Time To Move On --- We Have
Dear Greg and List, Greg, thank you for making this post to the list. AS I HAVE ALREADY SAID in a previous post there were MANY things that affected our decision. Michael Blood and Darryl Pitt are dear friends of ours and we want the personal attacks on them to stop. I'll repeat incase there is anyone that does not UNDERSTAND! Michael Blood and Darryl Pitt are DEAR FRIENDS of ours and we want the personal attacks on them to stop. To Darryl and Michael we look forward to BIG hugs when we see you at Tucson. PLEASE!!! NO MORE E-MAILS ON THIS SUBJECT Our apologies to Art and list members Paul At 07:41 PM 1/9/2003 -0500, you wrote: Hello List, Sigh, the loss of MT will be felt by all - the List, collectors, dealers, educators, novices, strollers of the 'net and the merely meteoritically curious. Jim, Paul, I want to thank you for sharing your dream, enthusiasm, knowledge, and most importantly, free time with and on behalf of us. It is not worth MT continuing if it brings you angst and dread - life is too short and you deserve far better. People who volunteer, unfortunately, carry the same, if not greater risks in carrying out their endeavor. Your dream as evidenced by the wonderful issues of MT was to create an open, not for profit information forum using the power of the Internet. Unfortunately, circumstances combined to defeat your purpose. I want to formally applaud the correspondence of Michael Blood and Darryl Macovich - it is a rare day when men come forward in a public forum as they did. I for one feel they are being truthful in this matter. Maybe from the ashes of MT another infonet meteorite magazine will arise. If so, let us all remember what has happened here so as to not repeat history again. Maybe an editorial board can help to spread the responsibilities of proof reading and fact checking; maybe readers can express their appreciation in letters and volunteering to help. One thing is certain. MT, through the efforts of Paul and Jim, aided by others, set a pretty high mark for others to follow. And of that they can be proud. All the best, Greg Redfern IMCA #5781 www.meteoritecollectors.org -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Paul Harris Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:49 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] The Death Of A Dream Dear List and MT Writers, I just got off the phone with Jim and I regret to inform you that MeteoriteTimes.com died tonight. We had a dream of giving back to the meteorite community some of what we have received. Jim and I spent much of what little free time we had on producing the magazine. What we lacked was the time it takes to police each and every word, each and every picture, each and every link. We lacked the time and clairvoyance to realize when material was not mentioned. We did not spend our free time and creative energies to be spoken to as we have been. We did not spend our free time and creative energies to cause infighting between others. We did not spend our free time and creative energies to have to bother the list with e-mails like this. To the vast majority who will miss the magazine, I truly apologize and I'm sorry. Paul __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] A Real Void / End Of A Magazine
Jim, Paul and List, I can only echo the sentiments of what has been posted regarding the end of Meteorite Times. I too looked forward to each and every issue and a short time ago I suggested that all of the issues be put together into book form. I was impressed with the writing and the pictures for it was written in a language that most could UNDERSTAND. Please bear with me while I explain this in more detail. I had for several years, belonged to the Meteoritical Society and as such received every issue of their journal / bulletin. Now, my background as you most know is in law enforcement, not science. My high school science classes were limited. None in college.I have struggled, really struggled, over the years to understand the science of meteoritics. Each issue of the journal I received from the Meteoritical Society was so over my head that I really could not appreciate the aspects of the science involved. That's why I have been so fond of easier to read books about meteorites from authors such as: Fritz Heide, Norton, Ninninger, Dodd and so forth. The advanced text books about meteoritics, while I can certainly appreciate them, just befuddles me. That is also why I thought Meteorite Times was not only timelybut was so very valuable to more of lay persons like myself. Now that's gone. I don't know what happened, but I can only say that I will truly miss this online magazine. I too have referred persons to Meteorite Times---those interested in meteoritics but, like myself, don't have extensive science backgrounds. Meteoritic basics was the void. Your magazine certainly filled that void. I can only hope that someday Meteorite Times will return in all it's splendor, and can again be enjoyed by so many. Thanks for all of your hard work. And hey, I still think you have enough previous material to publish a meteorite information book for the masses. I'll be the first in line with my crumpled-up bills. ;-) My best to all, Steven L. Sachs IMCA # 9210 / Collecting and Studying since 1990. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] My last comment
Dear List, I just got home from work and found what the list has been busy with today and it distresses me more than the closing of the magazine. We decided to stop the magazine for a host of reasons and not because of any group of individuals or particular thing. It was the accumulation of things that made it no longer a pleasure to do. We never wanted anyone to be known or accused. We stopped the magazine to preserve friendships that our venue was putting in jeopardy because of a variety of factors we simply could not get good control of. I would ask that you not make our efforts of no avail by continuing to bash dear friends. They have made and will continue to make far more important contributions to this community over time than Paul and I ever will. They are far more passionate people about meteorites and will serve to expand the scope of our field of interest to a much greater degree than we could. I would ask you all to appreciate that they are all caring individuals, that have feelings, and those feelings have been hurt, today. Nature hates a vacuum some other publication or discussion group will appear. Perhaps this list can provide similar material to what we offered, that would just be wonderful. Paul and I really enjoy going to Tucson and seeing everyone, we have always entered every room with a smile. There have always been only friends there. That is my wish for all of you that in every suite you visit there will always be a friendly welcome without hard feelings. I don't know what I will be thinking this year. But, I am hoping for the best year ever. I for one am not going to ever say more about this, and look forward to the next time I see all of you. Jim Tobin [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Meteorite Exchange __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Gold basin Hunt!
I hope every one comming to the GB hunt as a safe trip! If you are staying in kingman let me know. : ) Thanks, Tom The proudest member of the I.M.C.A. #6168 _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Time To Move On --- We Have
Hello List, It has been a very emotional day. Sometimes things have to happen to remind us we are human. Lets respect the wishes and choices of Paul and Jim. I am sure they will continue to support this hobby in a very positive way through their always exspanding website. It has always been one of the most informational websites and I am sure it will continue to be so. Looking forward to a pleasant Denver show. Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Another mag bites the dust!
James .. Paul.. I am so sorry this has happened...Everyone loved the magazine as far as I could tell. and a lot of hard work went into it. I know you are depressed and upset. Reminds me of another time in my past.. er.. History. I was working on the Group Newsletter in Civil Air Patrol. As most of you have seen my typing on a keyboard.. imagine the typing back then 15 - 20 years ago.without spell check... anywho.. I had spent a lot of time ..digging up info and writing.. typing ( ohno ) and printing and sent it out. Feeling a since of pride of accomplishment. No one helped me, or even offered to help. What did I get for my efforts? Complaints. You should have done this. You should have written that. You should have gotten some advertising to raise money. Was nothing right in the eyes of a certain individual I called friend. So.. I said.. fine.. sounded like he knew what he was doing and since he could do so much better that my poor failed attempt to get communications going.. I told him he could put out the next issue.. because I sure wasn't wasting my time again. Well has been nearly 20 years now.. still waiting. I know it hurts. And you are disappointed and feel like you have wasted time you could have spent on other things more enjoyable to you. Life is short.. too short for investing in losing propositions. But I think that most people enjoyed the product. And it was educational and fun. I hope you can get over the frustration and see to move forward. If certain individuals are too testosterone laden to be civil, perhaps you might ask other individuals to submit articles. It sounds like was a mistake in judgment on someone's part.. Perhaps on further perusal of conscience, the individuals will repent and apologize . Rosie Subject: [meteorite-list] Another mag bites the dust! Dear List, After a brief conversation with Paul it was agreed that we would pull the MeteoriteTimes magazine down off the web and pick up our toys and go home. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Please, Out Of Respect For MeteoriteTimes.com
Hello List, I offend someone on the list with this post. If I offended any one else I apologize to you as well as the one who let me know. I used Pauls party statement as an example of how someone can take a simple statement and make it into something big! The list has been full of people fighting over little things and I think it needs to stop. The old saying about taking things with a grain of salt should apply here! Every one gets to upset about the little things! If some one steals your meteorite collection, get mad at them, other wise, let it go. I liked that magazine and don't want to see it go! Tom Tom aka james Knudson wrote: Hello Paul, I hope you did not offend any of the cry babies on the list with this statement! Jim and I are going to Tucson. We are going to see as many Dealers as we can. We are going to have a great time at Larry, Twink and Jim's Party. We'll party harty at Geoff and Steve's Party! We'll enjoy as usual both Michael's and Darryl's Auctions. Both looking for deals and drooling as usual. I would hate for some one not to go Geoff's and Steve's party, because they want to have a great time! Also they might not want to go to Larry's, Twink's and Jims party, because they want to party hardy! Why can't we all just get a long? I love your magazine! I have learned a lot from it, and always look forward to the next issue! I wish you and Jim would keep it going and not let the Little old ladies and all their whining ruin it for the rest of us! Thanks, Tom The proudest member of the I.M.C.A. #6168 From: Paul Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Please, Out Of Respect For MeteoriteTimes.com Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 12:16:58 -0800 Dear list, First a huge thank you to all those who said thanks! For those who think they know the whole story and can point fingers send hateful e-mails to others, then start your hate with Jim and I. Our decision was based on many things. But NOT because of a single person or event. PLEASE STOP ALL THIS NEGATIVE ENERGY Jim and I are going to Tucson. We are going to see as many Dealers as we can. We are going to have a great time at Larry, Twink and Jim's Party. We'll party harty at Geoff and Steve's Party! We'll enjoy as usual both Michael's and Darryl's Auctions. Both looking for deals and drooling as usual. Have a great day! Paul ** Paul Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jim Tobin [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Meteorite Exchange, Inc. http://www.meteorite.com PMB#455 P.O. Box 7000, Redondo Beach, CA 90277 USA *** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Thanks, Tom The proudest member of the IMCA # 6168 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
