[meteorite-list] Meteorite Crashes Through Roof of New Zealand House
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200406/s1130666.htm Meteorite touches down in NZ home Australian Broadcasting Corporation June 12, 2004 A meteorite has crashed through the roof of a house in Auckland, New Zealand, much to the surprise of the home's owners. Scientists were sceptical about the report but have now confirmed the 1.3 kilogram rock has fallen from space. It is only the ninth meteor to land in New Zealand. Its rarity makes it valuable to collectors as well as scientists. Joel Schiff, from Auckland University, says the circumstances of the meteor's discovery also add to its value. "Falling through a roof is really an exceptional event that rarely happens, and this is a beautiful large specimen," he said. Scientists plan to analyse the chemical composition of the meteorite to find out more about where it came from. -- http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3572212 &thesection=news&thesubsection=general Meteorite crashes through roof of Auckland house New Zealand Herald June 13, 2004 A black lump that crashed into an Auckland family's living room yesterday was identified as only the ninth meteorite to be found in this country, television's One News reported. The 1.3kg, four billion-year-old rock fell through the roof of the house in the suburb of Ellerslie about 9am. "There was just a huge explosion and we looked around and there was just dust everywhere," householder Brenda Archer told the station. "I don't know what to make of it, it's unbelievable. I'm just glad no one was sitting on the couch because they just would have got absolutely crowned." Specialists were convinced the rock was a meteorite, but would not know where it had come from until it was fully examined, One News said. Overseas dealers were expected to offer the Archers cash for the rock. "Falling through a roof is really an exceptional event that rarely happens, and this is a beautiful large specimen," Joel Schiff of Auckland University said. - Meteorite crashes onto couch The Australian June 13, 2004 A 1.3kg meteorite crashed through an Auckland city home, hitting the couch and ending up under a computer, the Sunday Star Times reported today. The book-sized rock hit Phil and Brenda Archer's suburban Ellerslie home on Saturday morning, leaving a large hole in their roof. "I was in the kitchen doing breakfast and there was this almighty explosion," Brenda said. "It was like a bomb had gone off. I couldn't see anything, there was just dust." She thought something had exploded in the ceiling, but her husband saw a stone under the computer and it was hot to touch. The rock hit a leather couch and bounced back up to the ceiling before rolling under the computer. The Archer's one-year-old grandson Luca was playing nearby but was unhurt. "He must have a guardian angel," Brenda said. Auckland University meteorite expert Joel Schiff said the rock was "a national treasure", but international collectors would offer big money for it. He said the chondrite type meteor - meaning it was chipped off an asteroid - had probably hit the atmosphere the size of a basketball at 15 kilometres per second before slowing to around 100-200 metres a second at impact. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Cassini's Flyby of Phoebe Shows a Moon With a Battered Past
Carolina Martinez (818) 354-9382 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Heidi Finn (720) 974-5859 Cassini Imaging Central Laboratory for Operations Space Science Institute, Boulder, Colo. News Release: 2004-147 June 12, 2004 Cassini's Flyby of Phoebe Shows a Moon With a Battered Past First images from the Cassini flyby of Phoebe reveal it to be a scarred, cratered outpost with a very old surface and a mysterious past, and a great deal of variation in surface brightness across its surface. "What spectacular images," said Dr. Carolyn Porco, Cassini Imaging Team leader at the Space Science Institute in Boulder, Colo. "So sharp and clear and showing a great many geological features, large and small. It's obvious a lot of new insights into the origin of this strange body will come as a result of all this." "What we are seeing is very neat. Phoebe is a heavily cratered body. We might be seeing one of the chunks from the formation of the solar system, 4.5 billion years ago. It's too soon to say," said Dr. Torrence Johnson, Cassini imaging team member at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. "It's important to see the big picture from all of the other instruments to get the global view on this tiny moon." Dr. Gerhard Neukum, an imaging team member from Freie University in Berlin, said, "It is very interesting and quite clear that a lot of craters smaller than a kilometer are visible. This means, besides the big-ones, lots of projectiles smaller than 100 meters (328 feet) have hit Phoebe." Whether these projectiles came from outside or within the Saturn system is debatable. There is a suspicion that Phoebe, the largest of Saturn's outer moons, might be parent to the other, much smaller retrograde outer moons that orbit Saturn. Dr. Joseph Burns, an imaging team member and professor at Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y. said, "Looking at those big 50 kilometers (31 mile) craters, one has to wonder whether their impact ejecta might be the other tiny moons that orbit Saturn on paths much like Phoebe's." All planned 11 instruments operated as expected and all data was acquired. Scientists plan to use the data to create global maps of the cratered moon, and to determine Phoebe's composition, mass and density. It will take scientists several days to pour over the data to make more concrete conclusions. Cassini came within approximately 2,068 kilometers (about 1,285 miles) of the dark moon on Friday, June 11. The spacecraft was pointing its instruments at the moon during the flyby. Several hours later it turned to point its antenna to Earth. The signal was received through the Deep Space Network antennas in Madrid, Spain and Goldstone, in California's Mojave Desert, at 7:52 a.m. PDT today. Cassini was traveling at a relative speed of 20,900 kilometers per hour (13,000 miles per hour) relative to Saturn. It's been 23 years since a spacecraft last visited Phoebe. The Voyager 2 flyby in 1981 was at a distance from 2.2 million kilometers, (about 1.4 million miles), 1,000 times farther away. With the Phoebe accomplished, Cassini is on course for Saturn. A trajectory correction maneuver is scheduled for June 16. Cassini will conduct a critical 96-minute burn before going into orbit around Saturn on June 30 (July 1 Universal Time). During Cassini's planned four-year tour it will conduct 76 orbits around the Saturn system and execute 52 close encounters with seven of Saturn's 31 known moons. The Cassini-Huygens mission is a cooperative project of NASA, the European Space Agency and the Italian Space Agency. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, manages the Cassini-Huygens mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Cassini orbiter and its two onboard cameras were designed, developed and assembled at JPL. The imaging team is based at the Space Science Institute, Boulder, Colo. For more information about the Cassini-Huygens mission, visit http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/index.cfm and the Cassini imaging team home page, http://ciclops.lpl.arizona.edu/ . -end- __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Video re New Zealand event
Ken wrote: >Charlie >Thanks very much for the link. Your welcome, Ken. And thank you for the description which gave me some idea of what I'm missing:-) Guess we'll all be following the saga of this new fall as it unfolds. Best wishes, Charlie __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Video re New Zealand event
I hope Joel told them to not throw away any of the items which were struck, gouged, or otherwise penetrated. Hummm...What is the exchange rate for NZ currency now adays? What is the fair value rate in New Orleans terms...? (ok just a little satire folks) Actually the report was very well done and seemed to be technically acurate for a change. Elton ken newton wrote: snip... Good interview with Joel Schiff (wearing a dark blue FBI cap). While praising the stone he said to the homeowner "Dealers will be on the next plane, and they will be here on your doorstep with wads of cash." The meteorite went through what appears to be a ceramic tile roof ( large tile/s knocked out) fiberglass insulation and drywall, landing on the Archers' cream leather couch. It didn't look as if it hit any solid wood. The stone's weight was approximately 1.3 kilos Nice close-ups - a beautiful stone, oriented, flow lines, lip. Wow! best, kn __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Video re New Zealand event
Charlie, Thanks very much for the link. Good interview with Joel Schiff (wearing a dark blue FBI cap). While praising the stone he said to the homeowner "Dealers will be on the next plane, and they will be here on your doorstep with wads of cash." The meteorite went through what appears to be a ceramic tile roof ( large tile/s knocked out) fiberglass insulation and drywall, landing on the Archers' cream leather couch. It didn't look as if it hit any solid wood. The stone's weight was approximately 1.3 kilos Nice close-ups - a beautiful stone, oriented, flow lines, lip. Wow! best, kn Charlie Devine wrote: Dear list, I can't download this 2 minute clip, but most listmembers probably can, and it may be worth seeing. Scroll down the page at the link until you see a video entitled "Space rock falls into living room" http://tvnz.co.nz/view/tvnz_index_skin/tvnz_index_group Regards, Charlie __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Apology for "academic egghead PhDs"
Dear List, Someone just graciously pointed out my poor choice of words privately rather than chastising me publicly. I apologize if I offended any academics. I didn't mean to lump all academics together. Those I intended to criticize are those who are condescending toward amateurs or professionals only because they don't have the correct credentials or are for profit. The "boot leather" types they criticize can play an essential role in new discovery. I don't consider most academic as eggheads - just the purists who seem to have no judgment or balance (common sense). I meant the ivory tower types who can be so problematic and irritating to those who try to come up with new ideas or "trail blaze" into new geographic areas. I didn't foresee that "egghead" can mean more than highbrow, especially for those who are academics and are flippantly tagged with the word so often. I have many professors whom I keep contact with to this day. They have been great mentors and friends. It seems to me that more and more these days, good leaders are slowly being replaced with politically correct people who are savvy at surviving (because they don't take a stand for something). While those who stand up for what they believe in fall by the way side - or retire with (seemingly) no new, good cadre replacing them. I have the utmost respect for most academics, including some who I may disagree with in some areas. I guess it's important to point out that the person who I was responding to isn't an academic and doesn't represent the academic community. I think that he is engaged in a responsible, honorable profession, but that I just disagree with him on the subject at hand. Respectfully, Mark Bowling Vail, AZ USA __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Video re New Zealand event
Dear list, I can't download this 2 minute clip, but most listmembers probably can, and it may be worth seeing. Scroll down the page at the link until you see a video entitled "Space rock falls into living room" http://tvnz.co.nz/view/tvnz_index_skin/tvnz_index_group Regards, Charlie __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Origins
"mhutson" wrote: > Enstatite chondrites contain a significant amount of metal and are > undifferentiated (roughly solar in composition). Enstatite chondrites > cannot be surface material from any large (planetary) object. .. that is why Burbine et al. propose this: "If Mercury formed out of highly reduced material, our closest meteoritic analog to Mercury's surface composition would be the aubrites (enstatite achondrites)." Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Zealand meteorite--Hot Rock debate is back
Elton, the New Orleans fall fell several hours before the homeowner returned home, so that one had no chance of being felt. I bought a 1 kilo individual of Park Forest which fell through a home and smashed a printer, the homeowner was sitting at her computer 2 feet away! She picked up the stone about 1 minute later and said it was slightly warm. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: "E. L. Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "meteorite list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Zealand meteorite--Hot Rock debate is back > A New Zealand newspaper reports: > > <>"There was just a huge explosion and we looked around and there was > just dust everywhere," says Brenda Archer. What they didn't expect to > find was a very hot rock.--note a "very hot rock". > > Would anyone who is in touch with the Archer's pursue this asspect in > more detail? Such as how hot-- relatively speaking...a baked potato, > too hot to hold, uncomfortable to hold...etc And to find out if it > cooled rapidly, slowly, got frosty,etc. > > I lament that in the New Orleans and Park Forrest falls that there was > no report of anyone asking these questions to the targets...er witnesses. > > Elton > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Origins
I'm not sure where the idea came from that enstatite chondrites might be samples of Mercury. We know that Mercury has a large metallic core and an intrinsic magnetic field. Therefore, it must be differentiated. Surface material would be the silicate fraction of whatever chondritic precursor material went in to the accretion of the planet. All of the metal would be in the core. Enstatite chondrites contain a significant amount of metal and are undifferentiated (roughly solar in composition). Enstatite chondrites cannot be surface material from any large (planetary) object. A recent spectral study of the surface of Mercury (Sprague et. al -- LPSC 2004) shows no evidence for metal on the surface of Mercury. Mercury's surface does not reflect sunlight in the same manner as an enstatite chondrite. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorites from Mercury
"Peanut" wrote: > What about Mercury ... ? Gregory responded: > There was widespread belief that the Enstatite Chondrites > originated within Mercury's orbit, if they weren't actually > Mercurian themselves ... Martin A. contributed: > The Enstatite Chondrite Neuschwanstein had its aphelion > in the asteroid main belt, thus it's not related to Mercury. Mark B. wrote: > Not saying Enstatites are from Mercury, it seems > to me that they formed much further from the sun ... Hello All, One major problem with a Mercurian origin of enstatite meteorites is Mercury's mean density of about 5.4 g/cm^3. Enstatite chondrites, on the other hand, have a density of about 3.4-3.7 g/cm^3. Palme (2002) proposes that NWA 011 may be a fragment of Mercury! Problem: The high FeO content of this meteorite would point toward a parent body with a small metallic iron core and this is irreconcilable with the large iron core believed to exist in Mercury. References: BURBINE T.H. et al. (2002) Spectra of extremely reduced assemblages: Implications for Mercury (MAPS 37-9, 2002, pp. 1233-1244). PALME H. (2002) A new solar system basalt (Science 296, 271-273). CONSOLMAGNO G.J. et al. (1998) The density and porosity of Meteorites from the Vatican collection (MAPS 33, 1231-1241). Best regards, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
>> So, you really think I'm "intrepid"? >> ;-)) >> Bob V. Listen here pardoner, A brutal California Sun, desert hot lips, calamari eyeballs from the systematic wandering about cemented mud curdled lakebeds at the lowest elevations (=hottest), more than ocassional furnace-like winds, brilliant white glare, the encouragement of the participation of others may not be as exotic or isolated as Johnny Quest and Hodgi getting stuck in a Land Rover in the Sahara crawling with contrasting African cultures, but only the sponsored Antarctic hunters might have better bragging rights. Typical Mohave desert humidity this time of year is in the 10% to 20% range; temperatures to around 110°F (43.3°C) in the lower areas; and gusts common in the 30 mph (50 kph) range, according to the almanac. The highest month-long temperature ever measured on Earth was there (and probably during that month it also beat the Libyan single measurement world record one degree more that the corresponding California record). And I believe that by many measures in the summertime the Mohave (Death Valley) area frequently has the record hottest month on earth. And then there's always all the pieces of Mars - which you know for a fact were US Martians:) - and all the new material successfully recovered. Sure we have similar conditions here in Northern Mexico... But that Mars and long list of lakebed finds is part of being intrepid which is hard to ignore and silences those of us who try to realize or meteorite hunting dreams ... of course along with the other hardy pardners in your extremely challenging sandbox (or groutflats), where Kit Carson blazed trails, native Americans once survived and thrived, curious ghost towns remind us of Zane Grey romance and hardships of the American frontier, bones of goldseekers and cattle alike are concealed or ocassionally windblown exposed to catch a passing dried tumbleweed, and for archaelogists even the challenge to reveal the site that most probably the great Aztec Empire and Culture was born in an earlier time. Yup, reconsidered, you're intrepid. No need to be bashful about it ... Saludos Doug __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Zealand meteorite--Hot Rock debate is back
A New Zealand newspaper reports: <>"There was just a huge explosion and we looked around and there was just dust everywhere," says Brenda Archer. What they didn't expect to find was a very hot rock.--note a "very hot rock". Would anyone who is in touch with the Archer's pursue this asspect in more detail? Such as how hot-- relatively speaking...a baked potato, too hot to hold, uncomfortable to hold...etc And to find out if it cooled rapidly, slowly, got frosty,etc. I lament that in the New Orleans and Park Forrest falls that there was no report of anyone asking these questions to the targets...er witnesses. Elton __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] List: Attention on virus W32/Zafi-B!
> Fortunately it was wiped out before I could have opened it! Hello José and List, I also got this message but did not open the attachment though "she" clearly and unambiguously wrote she still "loved me" :-) Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Zealand meteorite
Hello Michael and all, The link is hidden in the text below the picture. A better link for the photo of the meteorite follows: http://tvnz.co.nz/view/news_national_story_skin/430438%3fformat=html It looks like a real beauty...enjoy. Regards, Frank - Original Message - From: Michael L Blood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Marco Langbroek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Meteorite List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Zealand meteorite > Hi Marco & All, > Marco - I went to the URL site below and got the story, but no > photo. I have two different browsers (Safari & Explorer) and tried > both to no avail. > From Mike Farmer's reaction, my curiosity is peeked. know > how I can see a photo of this stone? (Perhaps other list members > are having the same problem?) > Thanks, Michael > > > > > on 6/12/04 2:10 AM, Marco Langbroek at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > With regard to Joel Schiffs announcement of a meteorite fall today in New > > Zealand: there's a link to a press report with a picture of the stone at the > > Asteroid/Comet Connection website: > > > > http://www.hohmanntransfer.com/mn/0406/11.htm > > > > (look in the text box below the cover illustration for the link). > > > > And it looks like it is a gorgious nose cone oriented meteorite. > > > > - Marco > > > > -- > > Marco Langbroek > > Leiden, the Netherlands > > 52.15896 N, 4.48884 E (WGS 84) > > > > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > website: http://home.wanadoo.nl/marco.langbroek > > weblog: http://home.wanadoo.nl/marco.langbroek/iss_log.html > > -- > > > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > -- > "It is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a > democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist > dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the > bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they > are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and > exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country." > - Hermann Goering > -- > When Jesus said "Love your enemies" I think he probably > meant don't kill them. >Anonymous > -- > For perspective, try THIS: > http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/powersof10/index.html > -- > cool message fro Ben & Jerry: > www.TrueMajority.org/oreo > -- > AMAZING photos of Aurora Borealis, etc. > http://faculty.rmwc.edu/tmichalik/atmosphere.htm > -- > Hubble space telescope - AMAZING photos!: > http://wires.news.com.au/special/mm/030811-hubble.htm > -- > http://www.costofwar.com/ > -- > SUPPORT OUR TROUPS: > http://www.takebackthemedia.com/onearmy.html > -- > Worth Seeing: Earth at night from satellite: > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg > -- > - Interactive Lady Liberty: > http://doody36.home.attbi.com/liberty.htm > -- > Earth - variety of choices: > http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/vplanet.html > -- > Michael Blood Meteorites: > http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/ > > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] List: Attention on virus W32/Zafi-B!
Attention List: VIRUS! I have been warned by my server that the e-mail sent to meteorite list by a GEMFRANCE under the subject "Don't worry, be happy" - is in fact infected with the virus "W32/Zafi-B". So please, do NOT open it's attached file: www.ecard.com.funny picture.index.nude.php356.pif Fortunately it was wiped out before I could have opened it! José __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Zealand meteorite
Try this: http://tvnz.co.nz/view/news_national_story_skin/430438%3fformat=html http://home.earthlink.net/~magellon/img/meteorite.jpg best, kn Michael L Blood wrote: Hi Marco & All, Marco - I went to the URL site below and got the story, but no photo. I have two different browsers (Safari & Explorer) and tried both to no avail. From Mike Farmer's reaction, my curiosity is peeked. know how I can see a photo of this stone? (Perhaps other list members are having the same problem?) Thanks, Michael on 6/12/04 2:10 AM, Marco Langbroek at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, With regard to Joel Schiffs announcement of a meteorite fall today in New Zealand: there's a link to a press report with a picture of the stone at the Asteroid/Comet Connection website: http://www.hohmanntransfer.com/mn/0406/11.htm (look in the text box below the cover illustration for the link). And it looks like it is a gorgious nose cone oriented meteorite. - Marco -- Marco Langbroek Leiden, the Netherlands 52.15896 N, 4.48884 E (WGS 84) e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] website: http://home.wanadoo.nl/marco.langbroek weblog: http://home.wanadoo.nl/marco.langbroek/iss_log.html -- __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- "It is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country." - Hermann Goering -- When Jesus said "Love your enemies" I think he probably meant don't kill them. Anonymous -- For perspective, try THIS: http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/powersof10/index.html -- cool message fro Ben & Jerry: www.TrueMajority.org/oreo -- AMAZING photos of Aurora Borealis, etc. http://faculty.rmwc.edu/tmichalik/atmosphere.htm -- Hubble space telescope - AMAZING photos!: http://wires.news.com.au/special/mm/030811-hubble.htm -- http://www.costofwar.com/ -- SUPPORT OUR TROUPS: http://www.takebackthemedia.com/onearmy.html -- Worth Seeing: Earth at night from satellite: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg -- - Interactive Lady Liberty: http://doody36.home.attbi.com/liberty.htm __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Zealand meteorite
> Hi Marco & All, > Marco - I went to the URL site below and got the story, but no > photo. I have two different browsers (Safari & Explorer) and tried > both to no avail. > From Mike Farmer's reaction, my curiosity is peeked. know > how I can see a photo of this stone? (Perhaps other list members > are having the same problem?) > Thanks, Michael Here You go http://tvnz.co.nz/view/news_national_story_skin/430438%3fformat=html -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of: Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Legality of Libyan Desert GlassArtifactsDiscussion
" in all fairness a muesum is a bit diffrent than a private collector. sure both my preserve a relic, however a muesume allows for it to be enjoyed by the public as a whole. afterall, what good is a relic if it's left burried in the ground so as to never allow us to learn from it, or apreciate it." Alright, I have been trying to stay out of this, as this thread has been a distraction from the true point of the list, and is clearly a no-win argument from any point of view. However, trying to make blanket generalizations between museums (apparently public or private) and private collectors, and in particular their value to society or the public "good" is a sore subject for me. There are the good and the bad in both categories, and I certainly do not mean to paint everyone in each category with the same brush, but let me give a few examples, from my experience in meteorites over the last 16 years. There are a number of museums within the US that have either do not have the interest or the resources to properly protect and care for their specimens. A number of list members could relate their personal observations of some collections of meteorites simply rusting away in some museums. I doubt this is limited to the US. In reviewing the literature, it is not uncommon to find that specimens and even entire meteorites to have been "lost" in museums. This isn't limited to falls or finds from several hundred years ago, but also has occurred with many samples recovered since 1900, well into the heyday of modern science's collecting and cataloging phase (such as in archaeology). These samples and whole meteorites, entrusted to the museums from a public point of view, are now lost to everyone. While many museums have a public display of some of their samples, only the smallest museum collections are on display in their entirety. Only a small fraction of the large collections will ever be seen by the public. Further, research money is limited and only a small fraction of the meteorites in collections will ever receive any analysis or study beyond initial classification. In truth, only a small fraction of samples in museums have ever been used to allow the public to either "learn from it, or appreciate it." This is also true of some collections in private collections, but certainly not all. There are people on this list who have reached more of the public with their meteorites, through presentations at local astronomy club meetings, giving talks at public libraries or in public schools, and so forth, than many museums reach. There are many school kids in my area (Washington State) who will probably never travel to one of the major meteorite displays in places like Chicago and Washington DC, but have held and examined some truly rare and inspiring meteorites from my collection. They would have to travel to one of the larger museums in the country to even see these meteorites behind glass. There are many private collectors on this list that have done far more of this sort of outreach than I have. Let us also not forget that most, if not all, museums owe the fact that they have a great many of their samples to the effort and the presence in the market of the private collector. (I am not as familiar with other disciplines, but I suspect that this is also the case in fields such as archaeology.) My point is simply that I do not believe that having a collection in a "museum" in general is any "better" from a moral, altruistic, 'good-of-society' point of view than the same collection in the hands of a "private collector." There are good and bad actors in both categories and both categories have their benefits to our field and to society in general. I apologize for the rant, but in my opinion there are a number of folks on this list whose work and efforts over the years, in public outreach, hunting and preserving, and sponsoring scientific research, should not be relegated to second place behind any museum. Frank Prochaska -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of stan . Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 12:02 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Legality of Libyan Desert GlassArtifactsDiscussion >I sense a little(?) hypocrisy here. It would seem >to me that archeologists have been the greatest >looters of all time concerning artifacts.I haven't >seen any reports of any of the major museums around >the world scrambling to return the treasures taken out >of other countries. Whether it was looted before or >after 1970,,,it was still looted. in all fairness a muesum is a bit diffrent than a private collector. sure both my preserve a relic, however a muesume allows for it to be enjoyed by the public as a whole. afterall, what good is a relic if it's left burried in the ground so as to never allow us to learn from it, or apreciate it. ___
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite eBay Bidding Comment
> Hi Mike, > > Just bid your highest bid the first time and forget it. If you win, you > win. If you don't, via sniping or otherwise, well you weren't going to bid > any higher anyway so what difference does it make whether the other person's > bid was entered 10 hours, 10 minutes, or 10 milliseconds before the auction > ends? You are WRONG. Its verry importand when You place bid. exam1 If item is placed f.e. for 1$ , and in a first few days will go up to 20$ then You put f.e. 100$ your max bid 3 days before auction ends. So then many other bidders will try to outbid You and final price will grown up more or less slowly, and finally price will be f.e. 90$. You are lucky winner ? No, You are lucky looser. And many times You will return from work, log to ebay and what You see ? You are outbited and someone win Your item. Nothing more irritated. exam2 Without your early bid price is still 20$ and in the next days will not grow up in the same speed as with your bid. So finally in last 5 minutes of auction, item price will be 50$. Someone who is high bidder in last 60 seconds think that noone will place higher price, and then You come. A lone sniper, who will place his 101$ in last 20 seconds of auction. Not 100$, becouse people usualy enter prices as 50, 60, 100, 110, so to be sure you must put 51, 61, 101$. If You do this in the last 20 seconds Your bid will be entered in around 5-10seconds before auction end and THEN You will win the same item for less than 90$, becouse noone can place another bid in last 5 seconds. Your system is working, buy snipers can win the same items for smaller money. You can say, that this is not right, this is sniping etc. But this is real life like on old westerns :))) Only faster gunmen survive. -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of: Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Cassini Makes Close Observations of Phoebe
Carolina Martinez (818) 354-9382 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. News Release: 2004-146 June 12, 2004 Cassini Makes Close Observations of Phoebe With its flyby of Phoebe, the Cassini spacecraft has completed the first satellite flyby in its four-year tour of the Saturn system. NASA's Deep Space Network received confirmation at 7:52 a.m. PDT today. The spacecraft is operating normally and is in excellent health. "One down, 52 to go," said Jeremy Jones, chief navigator for the Cassini-Huygens mission at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. During Cassini's planned four-year tour it will orbit Saturn 76 times and execute 52 close encounters with seven of Saturn's 31 known moons. "Although this is the first flyby in the Saturn tour, it is the only opportunity to see Phoebe," said Dr. Dennis Matson, project scientist for the Cassini-Huygens mission. "This flyby is key to knowing more about the mysterious odd-ball, which has been the object of interest of many scientists." Cassini came within approximately 2,068 kilometers (about 1,285 miles) of the dark moon on Friday, June 11. The spacecraft was pointing its instruments at the moon during the flyby. Several hours later it turned to point its antenna to Earth. The signal was received through the Deep Space Network antennas in Madrid, Spain and Goldstone, in California's Mojave Desert. It was traveling at a relative speed of 20,900 kilometers per hour (13,000 miles per hour) relative to Saturn. It's been 23 years since we last visited Phoebe. The Voyager 2 flyby in 1981 was from 2.2 million kilometers, (about 1.4 million miles), 1,000 times further away. When it was discovered in 1898, Phoebe was Saturn's outermost known moon. That changed with the discovery of several smaller moons in 2000. Phoebe is almost four times farther from Saturn than its nearest major neighbor, Iapetus, and substantially larger than any of the other moons orbiting at comparable distances. With a diameter of 220 kilometers (about 140 miles), it rotates on its axis every nine hours and 16 minutes and it completes a full orbit around Saturn in about 18 months. All of Saturn's moons except for Phoebe and Iapetus orbit very nearly in the plane of Saturn's equator. Phoebe's orbit is highly eccentric and retrograde; it orbits backwards with respect to the direction of the other moons. Based on data from the Voyager flyby, Phoebe resembles a sort of dark asteroid. It may be very primitive. "All previous indications suggest that it may be a captured Kuiper Belt object, one of the millions of asteroid-like bodies from outside the orbit of Pluto," said Dr. Bonnie Buratti, scientist on the Cassini-Huygens mission at JPL. "With the flyby behind us, we may soon know whether Phoebe's composition is unmodified since the time it was formed in the outer solar system. If it turns out to be a Kuiper Belt object, we could be looking at the most detailed close-ups of any such object ever taken." First pictures after the flyby are expected later today. After the Phoebe flyby, Cassini is on course for Saturn. A last trajectory correction maneuver is scheduled for June 16. Cassini will fire its engine for 96-minutes before going into orbit around Saturn on June 30 in U.S. time zones (July 1 Universal Time). The Cassini-Huygens mission is a cooperative project of NASA, the European Space Agency and the Italian Space Agency. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, manages the Cassini-Huygens mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. JPL designed, developed and assembled the Cassini orbiter. For the latest images and more information about the Cassini- Huygens mission, visit http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov . -end- __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Zealand meteorite
Hi Marco & All, Marco - I went to the URL site below and got the story, but no photo. I have two different browsers (Safari & Explorer) and tried both to no avail. From Mike Farmer's reaction, my curiosity is peeked. know how I can see a photo of this stone? (Perhaps other list members are having the same problem?) Thanks, Michael on 6/12/04 2:10 AM, Marco Langbroek at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi all, > > With regard to Joel Schiffs announcement of a meteorite fall today in New > Zealand: there's a link to a press report with a picture of the stone at the > Asteroid/Comet Connection website: > > http://www.hohmanntransfer.com/mn/0406/11.htm > > (look in the text box below the cover illustration for the link). > > And it looks like it is a gorgious nose cone oriented meteorite. > > - Marco > > -- > Marco Langbroek > Leiden, the Netherlands > 52.15896 N, 4.48884 E (WGS 84) > > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > website: http://home.wanadoo.nl/marco.langbroek > weblog: http://home.wanadoo.nl/marco.langbroek/iss_log.html > -- > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- "It is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country." - Hermann Goering -- When Jesus said "Love your enemies" I think he probably meant don't kill them. Anonymous -- For perspective, try THIS: http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/powersof10/index.html -- cool message fro Ben & Jerry: www.TrueMajority.org/oreo -- AMAZING photos of Aurora Borealis, etc. http://faculty.rmwc.edu/tmichalik/atmosphere.htm -- Hubble space telescope - AMAZING photos!: http://wires.news.com.au/special/mm/030811-hubble.htm -- http://www.costofwar.com/ -- SUPPORT OUR TROUPS: http://www.takebackthemedia.com/onearmy.html -- Worth Seeing: Earth at night from satellite: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg -- - Interactive Lady Liberty: http://doody36.home.attbi.com/liberty.htm -- Earth - variety of choices: http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/vplanet.html -- Michael Blood Meteorites: http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Thank You - Was A fun Libyan Desert Glass Debate
Dean & Keith, Perhaps the problem is the interpretation of the word, "flake," as in "picking up a flake of LDG..." This can be interpreted as: 1) picking up any little bit 2) picking up a piece of flaked tool or piece of debutage made of LDG Best wishes, Michael on 6/12/04 5:37 AM, dean bessey at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > WOW KEITH. YOU REALLY CANT GET YOUR THOUGHTS STRAIT. > FIRST YOU MISQUOTE AND PUT WORDS INTO AN ARCHAELOGISTS > MOUTH THAT HE NEVER SAID. AND NOW YOU ARE EVEN > MISQUOTING YOURSELF. NOW YOU SAY: >> In this case, you are the person very confused about >> my arguments. I perfectly agree with you that there > is >> ***nothing** illegal about picking up or collecting >> natural, unmodified pieces of LDG. My discussion had >> nothing to do with the collection of natural pieces >> of LDG > BUT TWO DAYS AGO YOU SAID: > Despite what you have stated, he and other > professional archaeologists have made it very clear, > contrary to you have claimed, me that even picking > an LDG flake up off the shifting sandy desert floor > and transporting it / exporting it without permission > from either Egypt or Libya is unethical and illegal > behavior. It doesn't matter if this Egyptian or Libyan > > artifact is in a museum of not. It is still looting > and > it is still unethical and immoral according to the > archaeologists, whom I have talked to. > SO NOW YOU 100% CONLICT WITH WHAT YOU SAID TWO DAYS > AGO. > MAYBE YOU HAVE JUST NOW CHANGED YOUR MIND? > CHEERS > DEAN > PS: THE CAPS IS SO THAT PEOPLE CAN EASILY TELL MY > WRITING FROM YOUR MISQUOTES. > > > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- "It is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country." - Hermann Goering -- When Jesus said "Love your enemies" I think he probably meant don't kill them. Anonymous -- For perspective, try THIS: http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/powersof10/index.html -- cool message fro Ben & Jerry: www.TrueMajority.org/oreo -- AMAZING photos of Aurora Borealis, etc. http://faculty.rmwc.edu/tmichalik/atmosphere.htm -- Hubble space telescope - AMAZING photos!: http://wires.news.com.au/special/mm/030811-hubble.htm -- http://www.costofwar.com/ -- SUPPORT OUR TROUPS: http://www.takebackthemedia.com/onearmy.html -- Worth Seeing: Earth at night from satellite: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg -- - Interactive Lady Liberty: http://doody36.home.attbi.com/liberty.htm -- Earth - variety of choices: http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/vplanet.html -- Michael Blood Meteorites: http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Thank You - Was A fun Libyan Desert Glass Debate
Dear Keith, LIST, So, archaeology ~smarkeology, lets get back to meteorite topics and stave this trouble making duck of what's seemingly become a personal agenda. Let the archaeology duck seek somewhere else to squawk and discharge waste product. Sincerely, Dave F. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: dean bessey wrote: FIRST YOU MISQUOTE AND PUT WORDS INTO AN ARCHAELOGISTS MOUTH THAT HE NEVER SAID. AND NOW YOU ARE EVEN MISQUOTING YOURSELF. NOW YOU SAY: I am not misquoting the archaeologist, as far as the potential illegal and unethical nature of trading and owning artifacts composed of Libyan, which is what was being discussed. What the archaeologist stated in a post made by a professional archaeologist to the "Archaeology List". The full post can found at: http://listserv.tamu.edu/cgi/wa?A2=ind0406&L=arch-l&F=&S=&P=4205 If anyone is putting completely false words into s person's mouth, it is Mr. Dean. When I talked about flakes below, I ***wasn't** talking about natural pieces of Libyan Desert Glass when I wrote: Despite what you have stated, he and other professional archaeologists have made it very clear, contrary to you have claimed, me that even picking an LDG flake up off the shifting sandy desert floor and transporting it / exporting it without permission from either Egypt or Libya is unethical and illegal behavior. It doesn't matter if this Egyptian or Libyan" When I was using the term "flake" I was using the term in its archaeological definition. In this definition, a flake is a man-made artifact. In that case, I was talking about artifacts, not natural pieces of LDG. I apologize if that terminology wasn't clear. However, if had bothered to look at the context of the discussion, instead of flying off the handle, you would have seen that I consistently referred to **artifacts** composed of Libyan Desert Glass in the discussion as being potential illegal to trade in. Dean wrote: SO NOW YOU 100% CONLICT WITH WHAT YOU SAID TWO DAYSAGO. MAYBE YOU HAVE JUST NOW CHANGED YOUR MIND? I didn't change my mind, it is just that their some confusion of the definition of "flake"/ If Dean would bother to read the various posts it is quite clear that only artifacts composed of Libyan Desert Glass is being discussed. Only time will tell whether people need to be careful about trading in artifacts composed of Libyan Desert Glass. Yours, Keith Louisiana __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Fw: [meteorite-list] Origins
Hi List, The probability of a meteorite originated from Mercury, being able to reach Earth (or Venus or Mars, for that matter), must be exceedingly small, as it would be strongly attracted towards the Sun, unless its initial orbit would be disturbed in such a way as to be "kicked out" by a close encounter in the Sun's vicinity, with a passing asteroid or a comet? José - Original Message - From: MARK BOSTICK To: Martin Altmann ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Meteorite List Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 2:20 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Origins Hello Martin and list, Not saying Enstatites are from Mercury, it seems to me that they formed much further from the sun.but doesn't everything get kind of pushed into the asteroid belt? That was my understanding why there are still asteroids in the belts.they get replaced. Mark Bostick www.meteoritearticles.com - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 6:28 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Origins The Enstatite Chondrite Neuschwanstein had its aphelion in the asteroid main belt, thus it's not related to Mercury. Here a picture of the orbit http://www.heise.de/tp/deutsch/special/raum/14785/1.html Martin - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Origins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What about Mercury, Saturn, Jupiter...Etc? Is it just because we have to point of reference or maybe distance...Just Curious!There was widespread belief that the Enstatite Chondrites originated within Mercury's orbit, if they weren't actually Mercurian themselves, but I haven't read any particularly recent scientific assessment on that positionany updates out there? The "giants" (Jupiter and Saturn) are considered to be essentially gaseous with prohibitive escape velocities as well, so I don't think there's much speculation about them being reasonable candidates for parent bodies.Gregory __Meteorite-list mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://sixpairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list__Meteorite-list mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __Meteorite-list mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 7.0.245 / Virus Database: 263.1.2 - Release Date: 07-06-2004 Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 7.0.245 / Virus Database: 263.1.2 - Release Date: 07-06-2004 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Origins
Jo Mark, In my little world I have no idea whether at all or from which reservoir the asteroid belt could be filled up nowadays, only the comet cores, which were captured by Jupiter on short periodic tracks, come into my mind. We have to ask the celestial mechanics on that list. Also the ratio of the probability to catapult a body from the inner solar system out on a stable orbit, let's say with an aphelion in the main belt and a perihelioin somewhere around Mercury's orbit versus the same orbit but thrown from a collision in the main belt into the inner solar system would be interesting, or not so? Martin - Original Message - From: MARK BOSTICK To: Martin Altmann ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Meteorite List Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Origins Hello Martin and list, Not saying Enstatites are from Mercury, it seems to me that they formed much further from the sun.but doesn't everything get kind of pushed into the asteroid belt? That was my understanding why there are still asteroids in the belts.they get replaced. Mark Bostick www.meteoritearticles.com - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 6:28 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Origins The Enstatite Chondrite Neuschwanstein had its aphelion in the asteroid main belt, thus it's not related to Mercury. Here a picture of the orbit http://www.heise.de/tp/deutsch/special/raum/14785/1.html Martin - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Origins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What about Mercury, Saturn, Jupiter...Etc? Is it just because we have to point of reference or maybe distance...Just Curious!There was widespread belief that the Enstatite Chondrites originated within Mercury's orbit, if they weren't actually Mercurian themselves, but I haven't read any particularly recent scientific assessment on that positionany updates out there? The "giants" (Jupiter and Saturn) are considered to be essentially gaseous with prohibitive escape velocities as well, so I don't think there's much speculation about them being reasonable candidates for parent bodies.Gregory __Meteorite-list mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://sixpairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list__Meteorite-list mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Thank You - Was A fun Libyan Desert Glass Debate
dean bessey wrote: >FIRST YOU MISQUOTE AND PUT WORDS INTO >AN ARCHAELOGISTS MOUTH THAT HE NEVER >SAID. AND NOW YOU ARE EVEN >MISQUOTING YOURSELF. NOW YOU SAY: I am not misquoting the archaeologist, as far as the potential illegal and unethical nature of trading and owning artifacts composed of Libyan, which is what was being discussed. What the archaeologist stated in a post made by a professional archaeologist to the "Archaeology List". The full post can found at: http://listserv.tamu.edu/cgi/wa?A2=ind0406&L=arch-l&F=&S=&P=4205 If anyone is putting completely false words into s person's mouth, it is Mr. Dean. When I talked about flakes below, I ***wasn't** talking about natural pieces of Libyan Desert Glass when I wrote: >Despite what you have stated, he and >other professional archaeologists have >made it very clear, contrary to you >have claimed, me that even picking >an LDG flake up off the shifting sandy >desert floor and transporting it / >exporting it without permission >from either Egypt or Libya is unethical >and illegal behavior. It doesn't matter >if this Egyptian or Libyan" When I was using the term "flake" I was using the term in its archaeological definition. In this definition, a flake is a man-made artifact. In that case, I was talking about artifacts, not natural pieces of LDG. I apologize if that terminology wasn't clear. However, if had bothered to look at the context of the discussion, instead of flying off the handle, you would have seen that I consistently referred to **artifacts** composed of Libyan Desert Glass in the discussion as being potential illegal to trade in. Dean wrote: >SO NOW YOU 100% CONLICT WITH WHAT YOU >SAID TWO DAYSAGO. MAYBE YOU HAVE JUST >NOW CHANGED YOUR MIND? I didn't change my mind, it is just that their some confusion of the definition of "flake"/ If Dean would bother to read the various posts it is quite clear that only artifacts composed of Libyan Desert Glass is being discussed. Only time will tell whether people need to be careful about trading in artifacts composed of Libyan Desert Glass. Yours, Keith Louisiana __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Legality of Libyan Desert Glass ArtifactsDiscussion Continu
Hello Keith and list, Keith also wrote, "my bread and butter geologic work involving finding sand, gravel, and road fill for companies; generating oil and gas prospects, which I can sell" I find it funny that you have an occupation, that a history of destroying both culture and environment and still have a self righteous attitude towards others. Perhaps this is related to your need to tell us what church you go to. List members might remember it was Keith that thought the Estonia impactite would be better off on the shores getting destroyed then collected. Mark Bostick www.meteoritearticles.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Sharklike Acrimonious Humo(u)r 101
Hello Dave and list, I guess it was about time for a little argument on the list. Since I am bored this saturday morning I will reply. Dave wrote: "but I think the reply Doug gave him was quite uncalled for. "F_rting" and "a__hole" and the such." I remember Doug (now) from Tucson When I was sick Doug showed general concern and tried to be helpful to me. So Doug's e-mail did kind of surprise me. However, we did see Gregory send an uncalled for e-mail first. So I think it is more honest to condemn them both. It is unusual to just condemn the person who tossed the second punch. "Maybe Gregory's sarcastic point was, that some of us don't really like to feel belittled by a bunch of "Techno-babble"..." Perhaps Gregory's sarcastic remark, (I didn't see no point in the Hippos comment), was as you suggested. A lack of desire for "Techno-babble". Gregory you know is a lawyer, so one would think he would be accustomed to "techno-babble". I would have rather have seen Gregory argue against one of the points Doug made. This is to some degree a scientific forum, one would think a techno e-mail would be acceptable. Personally I found it interesting and somewhat courageousif only a little passive aggressive. He did present a different point of view then that of Michael Blood, something most would likely shy away from because of the position he has in our community. Having said all of that I am impressed with Doug's ability to speak and type in English. My ability in his language is limited to words I had no choice but to learn during the times I have been in Mexico. Like "Alto", it is on all the stop signs. I also see no comparison with Doug and the old J. Warren (who has been a pretty decent person the last six months). And I have also met Gregory a couple times. In person he seems intelligent and rational. I think in the past I have agreed with 80% or more of his postings. I don't think Gregory or Doug was meaning to feed the ducks. It may be of interest to note, that I did agree with Michael. That the Los Angeles offers should have waited, as that is more standard business practice in this hobby. We are not completely cut throat people...yet. But I must also agree with Doug. A set price sale and a silent auction, is unlikely to affect each other. It is also hard to see that Vernish lost anything in such action, since he controls all the material and any piece sold or traded, came from his hands. Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Origins
Hello Martin and list, Not saying Enstatites are from Mercury, it seems to me that they formed much further from the sun.but doesn't everything get kind of pushed into the asteroid belt? That was my understanding why there are still asteroids in the belts.they get replaced. Mark Bostick www.meteoritearticles.com - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 6:28 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Origins The Enstatite Chondrite Neuschwanstein had its aphelion in the asteroid main belt, thus it's not related to Mercury. Here a picture of the orbit http://www.heise.de/tp/deutsch/special/raum/14785/1.html Martin - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Origins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What about Mercury, Saturn, Jupiter...Etc? Is it just because we have to point of reference or maybe distance...Just Curious!There was widespread belief that the Enstatite Chondrites originated within Mercury's orbit, if they weren't actually Mercurian themselves, but I haven't read any particularly recent scientific assessment on that positionany updates out there? The "giants" (Jupiter and Saturn) are considered to be essentially gaseous with prohibitive escape velocities as well, so I don't think there's much speculation about them being reasonable candidates for parent bodies.Gregory __Meteorite-list mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://sixpairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list__Meteorite-list mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Add-ons to Pre-Meteorite sale, PTS.1,2 AND 3
Good morning list.I am adding a few specimens to the PRE-SUMMER meteorite sale I am having.I am sorry for not adding them before.So here goes: __ 1.FORREST 002 7.4 GRAMS $40.00 2.GOMES 2.2 GRAMS $15.00 3.LONG ISLAND 3 GRAMS$15.00 4.NANTAN130 GRAMS $25.00 5.SANDY CREEK 1.134 GRAMS$15.00 6.SETH WARD11.2 GRAMS $60.00 7.NWA 787 110.8 GRAM STONE INDIVIDUAL $60.00 ___ Well there you have people. 42 different specimens forsale cheap to go.Also as of today,ALL rikers will come with specimens.Here is a list of the specimens that are gone: NWA 980,NWA 002,WAKA,HAVILAND(D),TELL,and SEMINOLE(D).Let me know what you want.also I pay for shipping world wide. steve arnold, chicago = Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 Illinois Meteorites website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Thank You - Was A fun Libyan Desert Glass Debate
WOW KEITH. YOU REALLY CANT GET YOUR THOUGHTS STRAIT. FIRST YOU MISQUOTE AND PUT WORDS INTO AN ARCHAELOGISTS MOUTH THAT HE NEVER SAID. AND NOW YOU ARE EVEN MISQUOTING YOURSELF. NOW YOU SAY: > In this case, you are the person very confused about > my arguments. I perfectly agree with you that there is > ***nothing** illegal about picking up or collecting > natural, unmodified pieces of LDG. My discussion had > nothing to do with the collection of natural pieces > of LDG BUT TWO DAYS AGO YOU SAID: Despite what you have stated, he and other professional archaeologists have made it very clear, contrary to you have claimed, me that even picking an LDG flake up off the shifting sandy desert floor and transporting it / exporting it without permission from either Egypt or Libya is unethical and illegal behavior. It doesn't matter if this Egyptian or Libyan artifact is in a museum of not. It is still looting and it is still unethical and immoral according to the archaeologists, whom I have talked to. SO NOW YOU 100% CONLICT WITH WHAT YOU SAID TWO DAYS AGO. MAYBE YOU HAVE JUST NOW CHANGED YOUR MIND? CHEERS DEAN PS: THE CAPS IS SO THAT PEOPLE CAN EASILY TELL MY WRITING FROM YOUR MISQUOTES. __ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Zealand meteorite
Oh my god, what a gorgeous stone! Go get it Joel. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: "Marco Langbroek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "meteorite list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 2:10 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] New Zealand meteorite > Hi all, > > With regard to Joel Schiffs announcement of a meteorite fall today in New > Zealand: there's a link to a press report with a picture of the stone at the > Asteroid/Comet Connection website: > > http://www.hohmanntransfer.com/mn/0406/11.htm > > (look in the text box below the cover illustration for the link). > > And it looks like it is a gorgious nose cone oriented meteorite. > > - Marco > > -- > Marco Langbroek > Leiden, the Netherlands > 52.15896 N, 4.48884 E (WGS 84) > > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > website: http://home.wanadoo.nl/marco.langbroek > weblog: http://home.wanadoo.nl/marco.langbroek/iss_log.html > -- > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Thank You - Was A fun Libyan Desert Glass Debate
Keith wrote: > I perfectly agree with you that there is > ***nothing** illegal about picking up or collecting > natural, unmodified pieces of LDG. My discussion had > nothing to do with the collection of natural pieces of > LDG. The only mention of this was that collecting of > any kind in the area containing LDG was prohibited > because of looting of ***artifacts*** in the strewn > field area. In that case, the people collecting only > LDG, not artifacts, were victims of the pothunter > / arrowhead collector types. > > I fully agree that people should be able to collect > and take home natural and unmodified pieces of LDG. > Keith, So why bring this up on a meteorite list? We're not hunting/trading/collecting/selling/studying archaeological artifacts... That's another group isn't it? > my bread and butter geologic work involving finding > sand, gravel, and road fill for companies; generating > oil and gas prospects, which I can sell Some might consider those practices of yours as unethical or morally bankrupt... Though not me - just pointing out that it's easy to nitpick when it comes to moral behaviour. I tend to live and let live - if some poor Arab can sell some pieces of LDG for some barley and oil, that's fine by me... especially pieces that are here today and buried for thousands of years tomorrow. The same goes for mining oil, lead or what ever else people legally engage in to put bread on their table. There are more significant artifacts/sites worthy of study, so many in fact that it would probably take a thousand years to study them all (and by that time they'll be studying us). I don't see picking up flakes as immoral no matter how many academic eggheads say so. Scientists don't have moral leg to stand on if you look at their past behavior. Besides, I know numerous respected PhD's from research one universities who don't agree with most of the current politically correct rhetoric that infects many places of learning these days. I bet many of the "respected" archaeologists you speak of have looted artifacts in their collections, both private and institutional. Seems a bit hypocritical... > prohibit the export of antiquities without permits. If a > person doesn't have the paperwork, which documents > that his Libyan desert glass artifact was exported legally, > a case can be made that the artifact was exported in > violation of either the laws of Egypt or Libya. Since > legally exported artifact are suppose to be sold with > documentation proving that they are legal, the lack of > such, even if the result of negligence on the part of the > person selling it to you failing to provide it, can be used > to argue that the Libyan desert glass artifacts are illicit. > It the owner that has to prove that an artifact was > legally exported with a documented chain-of-custody > going back to the person, who originally received the > license to exported it. If a person doesn't have the > paperwork and don't have this chain-of-custody, the > person don't have the proof that artifact is legal and > the country of origin, whether it be Egypt or Libya > can reclaim it. I think this is wrong. The dealers who were successfully prosecuted in the US & England (for looting in Egypt) weren't successfully prosecuted because they didn't have paperwork - pieces from old collections do not necessarily have documentation. What nailed the case was the fact that they found the detailed journal of the collector which revealed his activities. Most importantly they found some stone reliefs/carvings in his house that were hacked out of a monument. They were exact matches the reliefs that were recently stolen from that monument. In addition, I'm pretty sure that you face prosecution if you are in possession of items of $5,000 or more in value. > Again, someone needs to do a detail study of the antiquity > laws of Egypt, Morocco, and Libya in reference to LEG > artifacts. It seems like people are being much too > complacent about the legally of collecting, buying, and > selling these artifacts. Regardless of whether a minority > of LDG artifacts might be legal, the overall illict trade > in these artifacts is contributing to the destruction of > valuable archaeological sites. Again, I think the laws regarding the possession of "LDG artifacts" has no bearing on the meteorite list. I'll just have to agree to disagree whether the study of flake chippings "contribute to the destruction of valuable archaeological sites". I don't know if I'm engaging in "flaming" here, but I get frustrated with these chicken little/holier that thou arguments. And I'm a bit fatigued after spending the night doing some stargazing and am probably rambling. :-) Respectfully, Mark Bowling __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite eBay Bidding Comment
Boy, I wonder if this thread is about me... :-) I agree with Gregory on this. Bid the max you're willing to pay. Sometimes when I'm at the edge of my budget I'll pass on a few auctions. Only to find later that no other bids were placed and that the item sold way under what I would have been willing to pay. But I am usually more successful when I snipe than when I place my high bid early. That tells me that people aren't bidding at that max amount they're willing to pay. So they only have themselves to blame if they lose. Basically I think the best practice is to identify the highest you're willing to pay and snipe, if you're able, with that amount. Sniping can save you money (when people aren't placing their true max bids). Whether it's good for the seller, it can be argued either way. By sniping you can increase the final bid of the auction if the other bidders aren't bidding their max.; However, it can be demonstrated that by sniping you're aren't pushing the other bidders to bid that max amount. They may be holding back because they don't fully realize what their max bid amount really is until they're outbid. If you bid your max early on, they may run the auction up much higher to the sellers benefit (or just outbid you outright). I think that practicing "max bidding" using both strategies sort of balances out with regard to fairness to the seller (since one can't always be checking eBay). DO YOU SELLERS have any opinions on this? I used to think that sniping wasn't an ethical practice, but I think that if you always bid at your max and participate the conventional (pre-bid) way when you're unable to snipe, you're participating in good faith. There are problems for the sniper, some of which others have mentioned. 1) If a sniper doesn't bid with his max amount, they are at risk of being outbid. They usually can't put in an extra bid (I sometimes use the low snipe when money's tight - it rarely works, but it can stretch your money). 2) if the bid artificially high to edge out others, they can find themselves beyond their means when that "(crazy) high max bid" is out there... 3) they can forget to watch a particular auction and miss out. To those I may have offended/frustrated in the past: If it's any comfort, I use dial-up and have no auto bidding software. I lose more than I win (which is a good thing because another cool meteorite or creative offering always comes by!). And I've been sniped and counter sniped many times. I've always been comforted by the fact that the item was worth more that I was willing to pay (or could afford). I gave it my best. So bid your max, and let the best ebayer win! (Sorry for the long post - I was bored this evening...) Mark (Vail, AZ) P.S. === Don't forget the "buy it now" option... Gregory: << I think bidders who complain about being outbid at the last second are virtually always guilty of one mistake: they never placed a bid of the MAXIMUM amount they would be freely willing to pay for the item. >> __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Origins
The Enstatite Chondrite Neuschwanstein had its aphelion in the asteroid main belt, thus it's not related to Mercury. Here a picture of the orbit http://www.heise.de/tp/deutsch/special/raum/14785/1.html Martin - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Origins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What about Mercury, Saturn, Jupiter...Etc? Is it just because we have to point of reference or maybe distance...Just Curious!There was widespread belief that the Enstatite Chondrites originated within Mercury's orbit, if they weren't actually Mercurian themselves, but I haven't read any particularly recent scientific assessment on that positionany updates out there? The "giants" (Jupiter and Saturn) are considered to be essentially gaseous with prohibitive escape velocities as well, so I don't think there's much speculation about them being reasonable candidates for parent bodies.Gregory __Meteorite-list mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Sharklike Acrimonious Humo(u)r 101
Wow! I had always thought of Gregory (Mr. Sharkster) as one of the list's more benign creatures (unless provoked). I'm not aware of what you two had said to each other in private about Normandy or whatever, but I think the reply Doug gave him was quite uncalled for. "F_rting" and "a__hole" and the such. Maybe Gregory's sarcastic point was, that some of us don't really like to feel belittled by a bunch of "Techno-babble"...especially when it's about 3 pages of text or more. If so, you best spell it correctly? We all realize that Doug is a very intelligent and talented person with loads of insight (to say the least), but some of us probably don't want our face rubbed in our supposed ignorance. Now, I don't know what you two had going in private, but I've never seen you (Bernd) go off on anyone like that before. I'm guessing I don't know the whole story and will leave it as such and offer my apologies now for even mentioning it. Hope everyone can work it out between themselves and the list can go on. I meant no offense to anyone and hope none was taken. Probably said too much already, Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the window on the soul .. said the undisputed master of hypocritical ceremonies who notoriously deigns to provoke even the most benevolent list members with unwarranted comments that only reflect his mean intentions and motives. Comparing Doug to J. Warren is as provocatively mean and sarcastic as trying to make someone believe that I thought that the June 06 invasion of the Allied Forces in Normandy was a mistake. OK, you self-appointed fomenter, I will NOW apologize for having sent part of your ignominious comments to the List. I did make a mistake because I had assumed it had been sent via the list. I was too rash because it was deep sadness over thousands of young lives lost, no more and no less, but it was a mistake. I DO NOT regret having sent it to the List because it shows, once again, as so often before, that your prime goal is stirring trouble (Kevin Kichinka would be able to contribute a lot here). Good night to all the good people that aren't "barbaric flamers", to all those who want to "maintain critical mass", and to all those who don't want this list to "decline in quality". End of this thread (on my part) ! Bernd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] New Zealand meteorite
Hi all, With regard to Joel Schiffs announcement of a meteorite fall today in New Zealand: there's a link to a press report with a picture of the stone at the Asteroid/Comet Connection website: http://www.hohmanntransfer.com/mn/0406/11.htm (look in the text box below the cover illustration for the link). And it looks like it is a gorgious nose cone oriented meteorite. - Marco -- Marco Langbroek Leiden, the Netherlands 52.15896 N, 4.48884 E (WGS 84) e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] website: http://home.wanadoo.nl/marco.langbroek weblog: http://home.wanadoo.nl/marco.langbroek/iss_log.html -- __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Origins
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What about Mercury, Saturn, Jupiter...Etc? Is it just because we have to point of reference or maybe distance...Just Curious! There was widespread belief that the Enstatite Chondrites originated within Mercury's orbit, if they weren't actually Mercurian themselves, but I haven't read any particularly recent scientific assessment on that positionany updates out there? The "giants" (Jupiter and Saturn) are considered to be essentially gaseous with prohibitive escape velocities as well, so I don't think there's much speculation about them being reasonable candidates for parent bodies. Gregory __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Legality of Libyan Desert Glass ArtifactsDiscussion
I sense a little(?) hypocrisy here. It would seem to me that archeologists have been the greatest looters of all time concerning artifacts.I haven't seen any reports of any of the major museums around the world scrambling to return the treasures taken out of other countries. Whether it was looted before or after 1970,,,it was still looted. in all fairness a muesum is a bit diffrent than a private collector. sure both my preserve a relic, however a muesume allows for it to be enjoyed by the public as a whole. afterall, what good is a relic if it's left burried in the ground so as to never allow us to learn from it, or apreciate it. _ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Libyan Desert Glass & Sikhote-alin
This discussion about moral.. Just wondering. If anyone has a Sikhote-Alin meteorite in their collection, it too must have been smugled out of Russia. As far as I know they dont allow those meteorites to leave the country. Correct me if I am wrong. Best Lars Pedersen __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] An announcement from Joel Schiff
Joel Schiff, publisher of Meteorite Magazine, has asked me to forward the following. Dorothy Norton A meteorite weighing 1.3 kg crashed through the roof of a house in Auckland, New Zealand on Saturday morning 12 June. It looks to be an ordinary contrite with a gray matrix. Further details will be featured in the next issue of Meteorite magazine Joel Schiff Thank you, Joel __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Legality of Libyan Desert Glass Artifacts Discussion
In a message dated 6/12/2004 2:21:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << professional archaeologists have made it very clear, contrary to you have claimed, me that even picking an LDG flake up off the shifting sandy desert floor and transporting it / exporting it without permission from either Egypt or Libya is unethical and illegal >> I sense a little(?) hypocrisy here. It would seem to me that archeologists have been the greatest looters of all time concerning artifacts.I haven't seen any reports of any of the major museums around the world scrambling to return the treasures taken out of other countries. Whether it was looted before or after 1970,,,it was still looted. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: Humo(u)r 101
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Comparing Doug to J. Warren is as provocatively mean and sarcastic[snip] It is? Really? Moments after he posts "If I wanted to hear an asshole I would have farted"? You're aligning yourself with THAT, to oppose "meanness and sarcasm" on the list? Wow. I just want to go on record as being unapologetically opposed to that kind of inexcusably boorish post, no matter who offers it, and I am frankly more than a little surprised and saddened that Bernd feels compelled to defend its writer. .[snip].trying to make someone believe that I thought that the June 06 invasion of the Allied Forces in Normandy was a mistake. I didn't "try to make anyone believe" anything, Bernd, I merely wrote to you and you alone, and asked you to clarify a list-comment you made. * Sigh* OK, since you have chosen to dredge all this up again, Bernd..on the D-Day anniversary you expressed what we all obviously feel, sorrow for the lives lost at Normandy, but you then curiously wrote "When will we ever learn?" I didn't understand that, so I asked you off-list, one-on-one, very sincerely, very innocently and without the remotest inference or "sarcasm" (re-read it and re-post it if you like), for you to clarify that curious remark. Unless I'm missing something (which is what I asked you to supply), there don't seem to be too many different interpretations of it, other than "Had we learned some (as-yet undefined) lesson by that day in 1944, Normandy could have been avoided." I merely privately asked you to explain what you meant by that, but I PUBLICLY got an ON-list smear, with no subsequent apology until this highly-diluted and conditional one, a week later. I'm still patiently waiting for the answer to my polite question, by the way. But would you please keep it off-list, though, as I have tried to do since the beginning? My apologies to everyone else (if anyone else is still reading ;-) for having this little tiff rise from the dead. Bernd, to follow is a sincere OFF-LIST request that you & I clear the air of whatever it is that has fouled it, so the list might be spared this sort of thing again any time soonbarring the return of Joel Warren (the First). ;-) Back to meteorites?! Gregory __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
