Re: [meteorite-list] Fairfield "iron" meteorite
Hi Dave and all, Having purchased some of the Fairfield Meteorite from the finder and cut the material into slices, I have some comments about it. First the matrix seem very tight and the specimen had rust on the outside but was very stable on the inside. I was worried about it going bad for my customers but after having kept an eye on it after processing I was amazed at how nice this meteorite was. I still have a couple of unfinished slices that I need to work yet so I can trade them but even those are not showing any signs of problems after cutting. I do dry out my material after cutting and lapping. I'll have to look in the Iron Handbooks to see what was said on the terrestrial age of the material and how long it might have been in the ground. It may be the water table was low at time of impact and later on it raised contaminating the outside of the meteorite later on. I'll try to get back on comments from the iron meteorite handbooks (if Bernd doesn't beat me to it :-) --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites www.mitterling.com Quoting Dave Myers : Hi List, Speaking of known meteorites that rust and ones that dont that bad, brings up a question about the Fairfield meteorite. All my life I lived within 8 miles where it was found at the gravel pit here in Butler county Ohio. It was found at a depth of between 70 to 120 feet deep in the sand and gravel left by the Wisconson Glacier. You have to only dig down 15-20 feet befor everything is submerged in water, part of the miami valley aquifer, and as far as I know it has been like that since 18,000 to 14,000 years ago. If the Fairfield meteorite was in water for that amount of time I would think it would had rusted away completly 1000's of years ago?? Or was it a huge meteorite at one time, and the 1.6 kg that was recovered is what was left?? Just wondering your thoughts on that. dave __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] National Geographic. Naked Science - Alien Fireballs
Hello Listers, If the first link didnt work to well, I found another website that has this video and I have gotten other videos and it works well. http://thepiratebay.org/search/national.geographic.naked.science.alien.fireballs/0/99/200 SA __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] List of known Rusters?
Hi Ed, The wax idea sounds good. Keeps the water out, but still "breathes" (lets oxygen in and out). Have you thought about microcrystalline wax, instead of clear paste floor wax? Try a company like 'Clarus Specialty Products' or 'Caromex International'. Ask for a microcrystalline wax that melts easy at, or below, 175 C ( ~ 350 F) and that has a good penetration grade. As it cools to ~ 100 C (200 F) take it out, and rag it off You are good to go... If you have excess in some wax in certain tough areas, you can just torch it out or simply re-bake it. Try it on something small Let me know what you think... In the "Great White North", you might try WITCO Canada (814-368-6111) You might try their "Witco 180 M Microwax"... Or, see what they recommend ": ^ / Good Luck Jonathan - Original Message - From: "Ed Majden" To: "Jonathan E. Dongell" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 9:33 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] List of known Rusters? Hi Jonathan: I did a search for D96 Gun Oil on the internet. I contacted the supplier of this product and he says they will not ship small amounts to Canada. He referred me to some Canadian Dealers but they did not reply to my e- mails. Perhaps they don't stock the stuff anymore. Shipping stuff like this across the border can be problematic and also costly. I phoned a gun collector friend of mine and he says they don't use gun oil anymore, just cloth impregnated wipes. He says in our cold climate when hunting seasons are open gun oils tend to gum things up. He suggested using clear paste wax, auto or floor types. I wonder if anyone has tried this? This may be worth a try! Cheers: Ed From very "WET" Vancouver Island! On 7-Dec-10, at 10:59 PM, Jonathan E. Dongell wrote: Ed, I will sometimes use WD40 on previously treated/preserved irons, as a twice-a-year cleaner/sealer as a "rub-down" with a clean towel. But, I always heat my specimens to ~ 400 F for ~ 20 minutes, prior to every application (let them cool first... ouch...). I have noticed two things when using WD40 on my specimens: 1. it appears to be, at best, only a temporary rust retardant. 2. it does not behave as a 100% water-repellant oil-based product does; in fact, it can (in my opinion) emulsify with water/moisture in the specimen, due to the aliphatic component and/or the wetting agent used in WD40. The later # 2, is why I always insist on heating specimens that receive WD40. You must remove any moisture from within your specimen, or you will risk continued degradation of your specimen BENEATH THE SURFACE over time (in my opinion). The only other reason I might use WD40 is a personal preference. It gives certain irons a slightly darker, almost black-iron oxide or 'fusion-crust' tone or coloration (instead of a shiny, or a gun metal blue, or etc...) with continued usage. However, this same look, is why some collectors DON'T like to use WD40. That said, I would never use WD40 on a "severe ruster". There are much better products (many have already been named on this listing) for retarding rust. But, NEVER apply any of these products (in my opinion) to a specimen (especially a 'severe ruster') until you: 1. remove as much of the alkalis and/or salts as is possible from specimen 2. remove as much ferric oxide as is possible, or convert as much ferric oxide to ferrous oxide (via chemical or electrico-chemical treatment) as is possible 3. apply either a chemical or an electrico-chemical treatment process to stabilize other minerals/metals (when necessary). 4. remove as much (better yet, all) moisture as is possible from specimen. ONLY THEN should you apply your rust prevention product of choice. Remember, these specimens are rusting for a reason. Most severe rusters have come from severe (sometimes anaerobic) environments. You must remove all the above rust 'contributing causes' prior to sealing any of these types of specimen (my opinion). Skipping any of the above steps, and applying a rust preventative, will surely "lock in" these potential 'rust mechanisms' within your specimen, which in fact, will create a more corrosive condition, and hasten the demise of your specimens. One last note... I continue to waiver on this one... Whether it is nobler to preserve the original specimen's "as is" qualities, or is it nobler still, to preserve the specimen from deteriorating away, thus altering forever, the "as is" quality. Alas, there is the rub. Just my opinions... Best of Luck ;>} Jonathan Dongell IMCA 3922 - Original Message - From: "Ed Majden" To: Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 9:28 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] List of known Rusters? Does anyone have a list of known Iron meteorite rusters? The sample of Nantan China I have split into several pieces. I have been using WD40 on the pieces to retard further problems but this does not work all that well. Have to repeat this ever
[meteorite-list] National Geographic. Naked Science - Alien Fireballs
Download links: http://avaxhome.ws/video/series/National_Geographic_Naked_Science_Alien_Fireballs_HDTV_720p.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Melting glaciers
Glaciers flow downwards fairly quickly. The lifetime of the ice is pretty short. Combine that with their small surface area, and I don't think there's any reason to expect them to harbor meteorites. If you were going to look anywhere, it would be in their terminal moraines, where material in the glacier will have been accumulating for thousands of years. But I doubt even that would be very fruitful. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: "Chris Spratt" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 9:02 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Melting glaciers With all the evidence that the world's glaciers are retreating, has anyone found any meteorites as the ice melts. Not talking about Antarctica. Chris Spratt __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Melting glaciers
With all the evidence that the world's glaciers are retreating, has anyone found any meteorites as the ice melts. Not talking about Antarctica. Chris Spratt (Via my iPhone) __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Finds New Life Form
Hello Listers, The question with science is no science is bad science. Without the unimaginable, unthinkable, where would science be? 1492 a rock feel from the sky and to many it was a sign from GOD. But to us now this sign is Ensisheim meteorite. However, during the ages of doubt and disbelief of rock coming from space a select few push forth, Chladni, Howard, and Biot. They gave way to the science of meteoritics while others thought that these rock were mere objects ejected from volcanoes, windstorms, or lighting. It wasn’t until 1812 that science accepted that stones come from space and now we know it as meteorites today. Now this comes back to the question about science, why, and the answer is how come. In the coming months I do believe these new findings about arsenic based life will take science in a new perspective like how science took a new approach with meteoritic science. Again, the only bad science is no science. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html [meteorite-list] NASA Finds New Life Form Mark Ford mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Wed Dec 8 04:54:03 EST 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] NASA Finds New Life Form Next message: [meteorite-list] NASA Finds New Life Form Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] To be honest i'm not sure their paper is that much more flawed than many papers of this type are - after all the point of publishing a paper is simply to initiate discussion, encourage people to repeat the experiment and prompt for counter arguments. They can't answer all the questions in one paper. I think the mistake many people make is attach too much weight to one lonely science paper, rather, we should wait until others have repeated/refuted the claims. I think the problem comes from a PR point of view when they do 'world wide' announcements, that are over hyped up. They seemingly didn't learn from the Martian meteorite life one did they.. The danger of using the 'NASA' name to seemingly add creedance to a claim in this way, is at some point you are going to shoot yourself in the foot, and when (if) they do ever find real alien life, is any one going to believe it? Mark -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of JoshuaTreeMuseum Sent: 08 December 2010 08:00 To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Finds New Life Form What's up with the NASA junk science? First it's psuedo-fossils in meteorites, now a phony not-new life form. What's next, cold fusion? -- For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism. (SW) Phil Whitmer And, the blowback: http://rrresearch.blogspot.com/2010/12/arsenic-associated-bacteria-nasas .html http://www.slate.com/id/2276919/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 Previous message: [meteorite-list] NASA Finds New Life Form Next message: [meteorite-list] NASA Finds New Life Form Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Help desperately needed for presentation to second graders
I posted this to the list earlier today but for some reason, hasn't come through. apologies if turns out to be a double post . . . seems to be the season for school presentations. Dear List, In early January I'm going to be giving a presentation to two second grade classes about meteorites. Anyone out there who has any experience or suggestions on how I should do this with this age group [7/8] that you'd be willing to share would be greatly appreciated. Please reply off list. Thanks in advance. Take care Susan Patton __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Large fragmenting meteor in UK this evening...reports
Fireball seen by hundreds traveling across UK..many reports coming in. Thought to be traveling E to W and reports of it overhead in on W coast so if it dropped anything it's likely to be in the Irish Sea or maybe Ireland again! More details need yet though http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/8190171/Spectacular-meteor-fireball-explosion-over-Britain-leaves-stargazers-buzzing-ahead-of-Geminid-space-shower.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11954932 Graham UK __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] test...delete
test. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Whitecourt Video
Wow! Half-kilo! Thanks for sharing this, Murray! Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Murray Paulson Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 11:05 AM To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Whitecourt Video I am relaying an email for a friend who can't seem to post to the list. Murray Dear Listers: Here is a video I made of Whitecourt this summer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unJ2UEi0vMs Hope you-all can see it. -Brian Moore __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of Day - December 8, 2010
http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_8_2010.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Chiemgau Impact Hypothesis is Dead
Chiemgau Impact Hypothesis is Dead by Dr. Martin Rundkvist, Science Blogs, December 1, 2010 http://scienceblogs.com/aardvarchaeology/2010/12/chiemgau_impact_hypothesis_is.php An earlier blog is: Amateur Impact Hypothesis Makes It Into Major Archaeology Journal by Dr. Martin Rundkvist, Science Blogs, August 10, 2010 http://scienceblogs.com/aardvarchaeology/2010/08/amateur_impact_hypothesis_make.php Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Review of “A Sumerian Observat ion of the Köfels Impact Event”
Review of “A Sumerian Observation of the Köfels Impact Event” by Jeff Medkeff and Martin Rundkvist, eSkeptic, February, 2010, http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-02-04/#feature Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Whitecourt Video
I am relaying an email for a friend who can't seem to post to the list. Murray Dear Listers: Here is a video I made of Whitecourt this summer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unJ2UEi0vMs Hope you-all can see it. -Brian Moore __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Large fragmenting meteor in UK this evening
My wife just saw an amazing meteor in the UK.Unfortunately I still had my head in the car unloading and missed it :-( It must have been very spectacular further north as she observed at looking into the remainder of the glowing light from sunset and with a fair bit of light pollutionvery low slow and distant. She reports as follows. Site Location: Town: Swannington County: Leicestershire Country: England Latitude: 52 ° 44 ’ 16.92 ” N Longitude: 01 ° 22 ’ 51.65 ” W Date / Time: Date (Year - Month - Date): 2010 - 12 - 08 Time: 17 h 39 m 00 s TimeZone GMT Visible duration (in seconds): at least 3 Train Details: large fragmenting fireball Sounds: None apparent Fragmentation: Yes Colours: White Large fragmenting fireball brighter than Jupiter but not as bright as the full moon travelling apparently east to west seen for the length of the plough directly below the plough, low, (3/4 above horizon 1/4 below plough) Initial start of hot flight not noticed so could have lasted longer. Seen through light pollution and probably too distant to hear associated sounds/detonations. If anyone else spots other reports please post to the list. Graham Ensor UK __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] List of known Rusters?
Hi Jonathan: I did a search for D96 Gun Oil on the internet. I contacted the supplier of this product and he says they will not ship small amounts to Canada. He referred me to some Canadian Dealers but they did not reply to my e- mails. Perhaps they don't stock the stuff anymore. Shipping stuff like this across the border can be problematic and also costly. I phoned a gun collector friend of mine and he says they don't use gun oil anymore, just cloth impregnated wipes. He says in our cold climate when hunting seasons are open gun oils tend to gum things up. He suggested using clear paste wax, auto or floor types. I wonder if anyone has tried this? This may be worth a try! Cheers: Ed From very "WET" Vancouver Island! On 7-Dec-10, at 10:59 PM, Jonathan E. Dongell wrote: Ed, I will sometimes use WD40 on previously treated/preserved irons, as a twice-a-year cleaner/sealer as a "rub-down" with a clean towel. But, I always heat my specimens to ~ 400 F for ~ 20 minutes, prior to every application (let them cool first... ouch...). I have noticed two things when using WD40 on my specimens: 1. it appears to be, at best, only a temporary rust retardant. 2. it does not behave as a 100% water-repellant oil-based product does; in fact, it can (in my opinion) emulsify with water/moisture in the specimen, due to the aliphatic component and/or the wetting agent used in WD40. The later # 2, is why I always insist on heating specimens that receive WD40. You must remove any moisture from within your specimen, or you will risk continued degradation of your specimen BENEATH THE SURFACE over time (in my opinion). The only other reason I might use WD40 is a personal preference. It gives certain irons a slightly darker, almost black-iron oxide or 'fusion-crust' tone or coloration (instead of a shiny, or a gun metal blue, or etc...) with continued usage. However, this same look, is why some collectors DON'T like to use WD40. That said, I would never use WD40 on a "severe ruster". There are much better products (many have already been named on this listing) for retarding rust. But, NEVER apply any of these products (in my opinion) to a specimen (especially a 'severe ruster') until you: 1. remove as much of the alkalis and/or salts as is possible from specimen 2. remove as much ferric oxide as is possible, or convert as much ferric oxide to ferrous oxide (via chemical or electrico-chemical treatment) as is possible 3. apply either a chemical or an electrico-chemical treatment process to stabilize other minerals/metals (when necessary). 4. remove as much (better yet, all) moisture as is possible from specimen. ONLY THEN should you apply your rust prevention product of choice. Remember, these specimens are rusting for a reason. Most severe rusters have come from severe (sometimes anaerobic) environments. You must remove all the above rust 'contributing causes' prior to sealing any of these types of specimen (my opinion). Skipping any of the above steps, and applying a rust preventative, will surely "lock in" these potential 'rust mechanisms' within your specimen, which in fact, will create a more corrosive condition, and hasten the demise of your specimens. One last note... I continue to waiver on this one... Whether it is nobler to preserve the original specimen's "as is" qualities, or is it nobler still, to preserve the specimen from deteriorating away, thus altering forever, the "as is" quality. Alas, there is the rub. Just my opinions... Best of Luck ;>} Jonathan Dongell IMCA 3922 - Original Message - From: "Ed Majden" To: Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 9:28 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] List of known Rusters? Does anyone have a list of known Iron meteorite rusters? The sample of Nantan China I have split into several pieces. I have been using WD40 on the pieces to retard further problems but this does not work all that well. Have to repeat this every few weeks! Ed Majden Courtenay B.C. Asteroid Majden 142368 (Thanks to Rob Matson) __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Reverse Electrolysis (Electrolitic Reduction)
Dear List, Thank You all who emailed me their experiences and experiments with the Electrolitic Refuction process with iron meteorites. It looks like I need to make just one change in my 'current' setup that I use for shipwreck artifacts, basically not using copper wire to wrap the meteorite with. Since I will be running the process on a couple complete Mounionalusta stones it will take longer than slices so it will be interesting to see if it helps to keep them whole for the process or not. After the process is complete, I will keep one whole and the other will be cut then compare the stability of them over time. Best Regards, Greg Hupe __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Finds New Life Form
I'm not defending the quality of the paper, only making a distinction between incomplete or poor quality science, and "junk science". The paper may fall into one or both of the former categories; I don't think it falls into the latter. As I noted, the hypothesis is a sound one, and this work is sure to generate additional research along these lines. Junk science does not. I see absolutely nothing wrong with the first sentence you quote. I can't imagine any well educated biologist having a problem with it. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Finds New Life Form According to that vast repository of all human knowledge, the modern day Library of Alexandria; Wikipedia, junk science is defined as: Junk science is a term used in U.S. political and legal disputes that brands an advocate's claims about scientific data, research, or analyses as spurious. The term may convey a pejorative connotation that the advocate is driven by political, ideological, financial, or other unscientific motives. The term cargo cult science was first used by the physicist Richard Feynman during his commencement address at the California Institute of Technology, United States, in 1974, to negatively characterize research in the soft sciences (psychology and psychiatry in particular) - arguing that they have the semblance of being scientific, but are missing "a kind of scientific integrity, a principle of scientific thought that corresponds to a kind of utter honesty". Check out their first sentence: " Life is mostly composed of the elements carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, sulfur and phosphorus. Although these six elements make up nucleic acids, proteins and lipids and thus the bulk of living matter, it is theoretically possible that some other elements in the periodic table could serve the same functions." This would be news to my freshman biology 101 professor who taught that the bulk of living matter was composed of water and carbohydrates. If you read the paper, they talk a lot about impurities in the salts and reagants. (!??!) They talk a lot about how you can grow this bacteria by feeding it arsenic and how the arsenic is assimilated into its biomolecules. They analyze lots of extracted fracionated nucleic acid. As for showing that the arsenic actually replaces the phosphorus in the DNA helix...not so much. Their evidence for this is weak and cold fusiony. I quote: "Show me the money!" and: "Where's the beef?" I can only conclude that this research is motivated by a political hype-driven agenda to get funding during the Great Recession. This isn't sound science, it's press conference science. I don't really blame them, things are tough all over and NASA needs money to conduct their important work. It's just that you can only yell "Wolf!" so many times. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Off topic Question
Hi Dave, Use Alt + Print Screen to take a picture of the open window or just Print Screen if you want to take a picture of your entire desktop. This is like doing a right-click copy. Now all you have to do is paste into Photoshop. In Photoshop you can crop what you want and save it as a jpg in your pictures folder. This might be obvious to most of you but I am surprised at how few know how to Print Screen. Abe Guenther -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Dave Myers Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 9:30 AM To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Off topic Question Good morning list, I have map quest, and bing maps saved to my computer. When looking at a satlelite view, of our family farm, How do I save the image to my picture files. I know it was easy 6 years ago, I think I right clicked on the image hit save as and it saved the image to my picture files. I could email the image to anyone.. Now when I try, it just saves a link to the web-site, in my picture folder?? I think befor I used google earth. Which now will not up load properly to my computer. I may have too many programs on my computer, and not enough space. Thanks for any help.. Dave __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Fairfield "iron" meteorite
Hi List, Speaking of known meteorites that rust and ones that dont that bad, brings up a question about the Fairfield meteorite. All my life I lived within 8 miles where it was found at the gravel pit here in Butler county Ohio. It was found at a depth of between 70 to 120 feet deep in the sand and gravel left by the Wisconson Glacier. You have to only dig down 15-20 feet befor everything is submerged in water, part of the miami valley aquifer, and as far as I know it has been like that since 18,000 to 14,000 years ago. If the Fairfield meteorite was in water for that amount of time I would think it would had rusted away completly 1000's of years ago?? Or was it a huge meteorite at one time, and the 1.6 kg that was recovered is what was left?? Just wondering your thoughts on that. dave __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NASA Finds New Life Form
According to that vast repository of all human knowledge, the modern day Library of Alexandria; Wikipedia, junk science is defined as: Junk science is a term used in U.S. political and legal disputes that brands an advocate's claims about scientific data, research, or analyses as spurious. The term may convey a pejorative connotation that the advocate is driven by political, ideological, financial, or other unscientific motives. The term cargo cult science was first used by the physicist Richard Feynman during his commencement address at the California Institute of Technology, United States, in 1974, to negatively characterize research in the soft sciences (psychology and psychiatry in particular) - arguing that they have the semblance of being scientific, but are missing "a kind of scientific integrity, a principle of scientific thought that corresponds to a kind of utter honesty". Check out their first sentence: " Life is mostly composed of the elements carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, sulfur and phosphorus. Although these six elements make up nucleic acids, proteins and lipids and thus the bulk of living matter, it is theoretically possible that some other elements in the periodic table could serve the same functions." This would be news to my freshman biology 101 professor who taught that the bulk of living matter was composed of water and carbohydrates. If you read the paper, they talk a lot about impurities in the salts and reagants. (!??!) They talk a lot about how you can grow this bacteria by feeding it arsenic and how the arsenic is assimilated into its biomolecules. They analyze lots of extracted fracionated nucleic acid. As for showing that the arsenic actually replaces the phosphorus in the DNA helix...not so much. Their evidence for this is weak and cold fusiony. I quote: "Show me the money!" and: "Where's the beef?" I can only conclude that this research is motivated by a political hype-driven agenda to get funding during the Great Recession. This isn't sound science, it's press conference science. I don't really blame them, things are tough all over and NASA needs money to conduct their important work. It's just that you can only yell "Wolf!" so many times. --- If you write the word "monkey" a million times, do you start to think you're Shakespeare? (SW) Phil Whitmer --- There is a big difference between "junk science" and science which is incomplete, or published too early, or even of generally marginal quality. In the case of this recent work, the hypothesis is sound and the techniques used are reasonable. Certainly, there is reason to suspect that more work should have been done before publishing (although that is far from certain at this point). I don't know how this will all shake out in the long run. I'm sure that others will be pursuing similar work, and applying additional tests. In any case, having read the paper, I don't think this work can fairly be called "junk science". At worst, it is incomplete. Chris __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Finds New Life Form
There is a big difference between "junk science" and science which is incomplete, or published too early, or even of generally marginal quality. In the case of this recent work, the hypothesis is sound and the techniques used are reasonable. Certainly, there is reason to suspect that more work should have been done before publishing (although that is far from certain at this point). I don't know how this will all shake out in the long run. I'm sure that others will be pursuing similar work, and applying additional tests. In any case, having read the paper, I don't think this work can fairly be called "junk science". At worst, it is incomplete. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 1:00 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Finds New Life Form What's up with the NASA junk science? First it's psuedo-fossils in meteorites, now a phony not-new life form. What's next, cold fusion? __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Off topic Question
Good morning list, I have map quest, and bing maps saved to my computer. When looking at a satlelite view, of our family farm, How do I save the image to my picture files. I know it was easy 6 years ago, I think I right clicked on the image hit save as and it saved the image to my picture files. I could email the image to anyone.. Now when I try, it just saves a link to the web-site, in my picture folder?? I think befor I used google earth. Which now will not up load properly to my computer. I may have too many programs on my computer, and not enough space. Thanks for any help.. Dave __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NASA Finds New Life Form
To be honest i'm not sure their paper is that much more flawed than many papers of this type are - after all the point of publishing a paper is simply to initiate discussion, encourage people to repeat the experiment and prompt for counter arguments. They can't answer all the questions in one paper. I think the mistake many people make is attach too much weight to one lonely science paper, rather, we should wait until others have repeated/refuted the claims. I think the problem comes from a PR point of view when they do 'world wide' announcements, that are over hyped up. They seemingly didn't learn from the Martian meteorite life one did they.. The danger of using the 'NASA' name to seemingly add creedance to a claim in this way, is at some point you are going to shoot yourself in the foot, and when (if) they do ever find real alien life, is any one going to believe it? Mark -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of JoshuaTreeMuseum Sent: 08 December 2010 08:00 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Finds New Life Form What's up with the NASA junk science? First it's psuedo-fossils in meteorites, now a phony not-new life form. What's next, cold fusion? -- For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism. (SW) Phil Whitmer And, the blowback: http://rrresearch.blogspot.com/2010/12/arsenic-associated-bacteria-nasas .html http://www.slate.com/id/2276919/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email i...@ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mars Mini Craters
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap101208.html http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap091019.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NASA Finds New Life Form
What's up with the NASA junk science? First it's psuedo-fossils in meteorites, now a phony not-new life form. What's next, cold fusion? -- For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism. (SW) Phil Whitmer And, the blowback: http://rrresearch.blogspot.com/2010/12/arsenic-associated-bacteria-nasas.html http://www.slate.com/id/2276919/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
