Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake
People always despise those they rip off. The entire southwest was stolen by the US from Mexico - When she was alive I used to love to hear my mother In law talk about the line in the dirt that the US tried To keep her separated from about a third of the family Which lived on the other side when the line was actually drawn. (They did the same thing to the local roving native Americans - many were south of the line at the time the Line was drawn, as they traveled about at differing times Of the year from El Cajon to La Jolla to Baja and back - They were never allowed to cross the line in the dirt again, Leaving much of the tribe American and much of it Mexican. Any way, my M.I.L. used to smuggle sick babies, parrots, whatever she wanted while my wife was growing up and my wife, as an 11 year old girl would protest, But Mommie, this is smuggling and they will arrest us, and she would just say, Oh don't be silly - it's just a line in the dirt. I cannot tell you how much I miss that one Michael (PS: Fascinating that people consider Health care an industry - a commercial venture. While They will have a hard time commercializing air, those on The list under 50 will live to see water completely commercialized. It isn't going to be a pretty picture. Oh, ya, this is a METEORITE list ! On 11/16/10 5:43 PM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Eric and List, The cost for rattlesnake anti-venom seems to be around $3,500.00 for a small vial. I imagine that a Mojave Green's venom which is double-acting would require special treatment. I am certainly not an expert on such things. Perhaps a zoo keeper that handles snakes can answer these questions since they keep anti-venom on hand. The local hospitals here no longer carry scorpion anti-venom and tell you to tuff it out for 22 days if you are stung by a nasty one. I was told it is no longer available at any costs. When I moved, my health insurance was no good here in Nevada. It took me over a year to find new insurance that would cover me nationally, not just in a single state. I went for over a year without insurance and was worried that if something happening in field, I would not be able to afford it. I had no idea this was an issue until I visited a doctor for an emergency and found my insurance was no good here. After being stung twice by scorpions and hearing of the mighty Mojave Green snake, I felt it necessary to inquire about such things. I repeated what was told. The people here in the Southwest have strong opinions about certain things so I take a lot of it with a grain of salt and yes, sometimes the comments come from ignorance. The main point is to do everything possible to avoid getting bitten or stung by some poisonous creature because treatment may not be readily available. Best Regards, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake-Leonid Meteor Shower
While we're on the off-topic of minority bashing: I live in an area with a high concentration of Amish and Old-Order Mennonites. I don't know how many times I've heard people say: You know you have to pay higher taxes because the Amish don't have to pay taxes because it's against their religion. Yeah right, I'd convert in a minute if that was true! (It is true they don't pay Social Security taxes though, which is probably where people get this idea.) Michael: Actually the medical industry is the number one industry in the US making up 20% of the GDP and employing over 14 million people. A relative of mine with cancer just topped out his insurance at $1 million dollars. And that's just one guy! Look at the money they're making just off that one disease. Don't forget tonight from midnight till 3 am is the Leonid meteor shower. Phil Whitmer -- People always despise those they rip off. The entire southwest was stolen by the US from Mexico - When she was alive I used to love to hear my mother In law talk about the line in the dirt that the US tried To keep her separated from about a third of the family Which lived on the other side when the line was actually drawn. (They did the same thing to the local roving native Americans - many were south of the line at the time the Line was drawn, as they traveled about at differing times Of the year from El Cajon to La Jolla to Baja and back - They were never allowed to cross the line in the dirt again, Leaving much of the tribe American and much of it Mexican. Any way, my M.I.L. used to smuggle sick babies, parrots, whatever she wanted while my wife was growing up and my wife, as an 11 year old girl would protest, But Mommie, this is smuggling and they will arrest us, and she would just say, Oh don't be silly - it's just a line in the dirt. I cannot tell you how much I miss that one Michael (PS: Fascinating that people consider Health care an industry - a commercial venture. While They will have a hard time commercializing air, those on The list under 50 will live to see water completely commercialized. It isn't going to be a pretty picture. Oh, ya, this is a METEORITE list ! __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake
One of my tenants attempted to save the life of a Mohave by using a piece of cardboard to push him off of the road. In doing so the snake bit him on the hand. After a four day stay in the hospital I went to see him . He unwrapped the bandages and it looked like someone had soaked his hand in acid. His skin was still raw and incidentally, he did nearly die. To this day his hand has scares like a burn victim. As a side note. I grew up in Arizona and have been camping since I was a boy scout. To this day he is the only person I know that has ever been bitten and it clearly was his own fault. These snake bites do happen but, are relatively rare. Ask yourself. How many people do you know that has actually been bitten? People are not there prey. They try to avoid people the same as we try to avoid them. Although I hear a certain deadly snake in Australia is actually known to attack people? Be smart. Don't stick your hands into invisible spaces and never try to rescue a snake from the roadway. As leno would say. what did you think was going to happen. Carl. -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Rose wrote: I would have to believe that the quoted cost is not for the antivenin treatment alone. The victim of such a snake bite would probably need to be admitted to an Intensive Care Unit with significant hemodynamic and possible respiratory support, not a cheap proposition. David -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Pitt Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 7:49 PM To: Adam Hupe Cc: Adam Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake Whoa. Adam, I know you're only relating what you've been informed, but something needs to be said of the nurse's outrageous ignorance. The notion that aliens don't have insurance and U.S. citizens all carry insurance has hardly been the case. A significant fraction of the citizenry of Nevada and Arizona (and not just) have not been carrying health insurance. Moreover, citizens are not dying as a result of aliens using up antivenin stocks. The high cost of antivenin has to do with profit---not aliens. It has been extensively written about that antivenin does not generate sufficient profit for drug companies so the prices get hiked up to the Moon. And then no one buys it to keep on hand so there are shortages. All best / Darryl On Nov 16, 2010, at 6:30 PM, Adam Hupe wrote: I was told by a local nurse that the average cost to treat a Mojave Green snake bite is between $60,000.00 and $70,000.00. I asked why so expensive? She claimed that illegal aliens, working mostly out-of-doors with no insurance are mainly to blame. None have insurance and the anti-venom is difficult to keep on hand. She claimed that many U.S. citizens with insurance have died because they could not get access to it in time, partly because it was used on somebody else without insurance. This in part is why the treatment is so expensive. Only a few are able to afford it. You better make sure your health insurance covers such things. Be Careful and Happy Hunting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list P Please consider the impact to the environment before printing this email. P Please consider the impact to the environment before printing this email. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake
Hi List, Questions... Is it possible, since the Mojave Green is so deadly, to secure some sort of antivenin for use in an emergency while in the field? I've read the antivenin needs to be refrigerated? There are tiny 12v portable fridges you can have with you at camp... So if you're in the field, perhaps you could keep a vial(s) of antivenin (antivenom) in a portable fridge in the vehicle while on expedition in remote areas. (if this is legal of course) This might buy some time for a snakebite victim to get to a hospital. The nearest hospital to areas I hunt in the Mojave Desert is in Barstow, CA... It's a LONG way away, and if you're 1-2 hours down a dirt road in a very remote area of the Mojave desert, according to the rumors of the toxicity of the Mojave Green Rattlesnake venom, you'd be dead before you reach the main road... I searched and couldn't find anything that compares the venom from the Mojave Green to a Cobra, Mamba, or Australian Brown or any other venomous snake. Anyone know a good site which lists all venomous snakes for comparison purposes? Also, I read on the DoD website ...DoD officials said military medics carry antivenin. A soldier, sailor, airman or Marine bitten by a poisonous snake is generally only minutes away from treatment. Antivenin is an equine serum; persons sensitive to vaccines from horses could have an allergic reaction This leads me to believe it's possible to bring antivenin with you into the field. Are there restrictions for civilian use/transport/possession? If restrictions exist, are there exceptions...? Some people can have a severe allergic reaction to the antivenin which could cause the person to go into anaphylactic shock. I know of people who carry an EpiPen for Bee-Sting because they are allergic... http://www.epipen.com/ Can this rare condition be remedied by an EpiPen...? Thoughts, opinions, experiences? Regards, Eric On 11/15/2010 8:34 AM, Adam Hupe wrote: Dear List Members, Just a note to warn meteorite hunters not to be too complacent. The most feared creature here in the Southwest is the Mojave Green Rattlesnake and rightfully so considering its venom is 75 times more deadly than that of a Cobra. You got about 1/2 hour to get anti-venom and if you survive a bite from this fellow, you can count on around a $60,000.00 hospital bill. They come out in the fall and you are most likely to run into one in the morning warming itself in the sun. They hide in and around creosote bushes which are everywhere. I see people listening to I Pods or wearing metal detector headphones while searching for meteorites, oblivious to their surroundings. The only warning we got when we ran into this deadly snake was the shaking of its rattles. I have heard Western Diamondbacks before and their rattle is much louder than the Mojave Green. I had a lot more confidence searching with knee high Kevlar snake boots until we ran into this fellow. The snake we ran into was up in the bush waist high before it dropped to the ground and took up a strike posture. We nicked named this large and fat, 4 foot plus snake Mojave Green Jeans Luckily, I had an image stabilizer on my camera. I may have been shaking more than the snake. The closer I got to it, the quicker the rattle shook. At one point, it sounded like a constant whoosh instead of a rattle. I would back off to about 6 feet away from it and then it would go silent for a while so I don't think they give you much warning. Just two weeks ago, we ran into a snake we were unable to identify which struck out at my brother in laws magnetic cane. It was also hidden in a bush. It wasn't a rattler but had some pretty wild looking checker board pattern. Meet Mojave Green Jeans: http://themeteoritesite.com/AMojaveGreen-a.jpg I Counted 11 Rattles, A Very Mature Snake: http://themeteoritesite.com/AMojaveGreen-b.jpg Side View: http://themeteoritesite.com/AMojaveGreen-c.jpg The Business End - Poised To Strike: http://themeteoritesite.com/AMojaveGreen-d.jpg Be Careful! Happy Hunting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake
Hi Eric and Listees, Access Google search for Ten Deadliest Snakes or Most Dangerous Snakes and you will find the Mohave Green listed and its venom compared in lethality to the other vipers. Thats where i gost the quote on comparison to the common Cobra on a volume basis. I am not a physician and any comments I make about snake bites and their treatment are obtained from what I feel are reliable sources, but I caution all readers to speak to their health care provider for verification and advice. CroFab is the usual anti-venom for this family of North American rattlesnake vipers. It is affective against the Mohave's venom although the Mohave can change the mix of components from bite to bite! CroFab is expensive and does not store well. Initial dosage is 4/6 vials. Followed in most cases with 4 more. The protocol for determining and administering the dosage and the amelioration of side effects is complicated and must be done in a hospital setting. Other agents are administered with this anti-venom. You need to be able to place a sodium chloride IV and maintain an airway surgically. Here is the protocol: http://www.hosp.uky.edu/Pharmacy/formulary/criteria/Crotalidae_Polyvalent_Antivenin_Protocol.pdf CroFab is derived from sheep products. No horse serum is used in it's manufacture. It contains a significant amount of assimilated Mercury. People allergic to papaya and pineapple enzymes should not be dosed. A Snake Bite Symptom Scoring System table is used to determine the dosage and maintenance. So, you can forget about treating in the field with an anti-venom unless accompanied by a stocked ambulance and a physician experienced in treating envenomations. The ten point schedule for the remote field treatment of snake bite was taught to me in military survival training and also learned over the years from my fellow desert dwellers here in the Mohave, including several who had survived a bite hours from professional help. Some experts criticize aspects of the protocol (such as the effect of the ammonia and other enzymes in human urine) as of minor efficacy, maybe reducing envenomation by less than 10%. I say that the 10% might just be the borderline between living and dying. Using it can't hurt as long as your not stupid enough to cut the blood flow to a limb, or freeze it. Watch where you put your hands and feet and don't walk close to creosote bushes...day or night. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com Sent: Nov 16, 2010 12:21 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake Hi List, Questions... Is it possible, since the Mojave Green is so deadly, to secure some sort of antivenin for use in an emergency while in the field? I've read the antivenin needs to be refrigerated? There are tiny 12v portable fridges you can have with you at camp... So if you're in the field, perhaps you could keep a vial(s) of antivenin (antivenom) in a portable fridge in the vehicle while on expedition in remote areas. (if this is legal of course) This might buy some time for a snakebite victim to get to a hospital. The nearest hospital to areas I hunt in the Mojave Desert is in Barstow, CA... It's a LONG way away, and if you're 1-2 hours down a dirt road in a very remote area of the Mojave desert, according to the rumors of the toxicity of the Mojave Green Rattlesnake venom, you'd be dead before you reach the main road... I searched and couldn't find anything that compares the venom from the Mojave Green to a Cobra, Mamba, or Australian Brown or any other venomous snake. Anyone know a good site which lists all venomous snakes for comparison purposes? Also, I read on the DoD website ...DoD officials said military medics carry antivenin. A soldier, sailor, airman or Marine bitten by a poisonous snake is generally only minutes away from treatment. Antivenin is an equine serum; persons sensitive to vaccines from horses could have an allergic reaction This leads me to believe it's possible to bring antivenin with you into the field. Are there restrictions for civilian use/transport/possession? If restrictions exist, are there exceptions...? Some people can have a severe allergic reaction to the antivenin which could cause the person to go into anaphylactic shock. I know of people who carry an EpiPen for Bee-Sting because they are allergic... http://www.epipen.com/ Can this rare condition be remedied by an EpiPen...? Thoughts, opinions, experiences? Regards, Eric On 11/15/2010 8:34 AM, Adam Hupe wrote: Dear List Members, Just a note to warn meteorite hunters not to be too complacent. The most feared creature here in the Southwest is the Mojave Green Rattlesnake and rightfully so considering its venom is 75 times more deadly than that of a Cobra. You got about 1/2 hour to get anti-venom and if you survive a bite
Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake
I was told by a local nurse that the average cost to treat a Mojave Green snake bite is between $60,000.00 and $70,000.00. I asked why so expensive? She claimed that illegal aliens, working mostly out-of-doors with no insurance are mainly to blame. None have insurance and the anti-venom is difficult to keep on hand. She claimed that many U.S. citizens with insurance have died because they could not get access to it in time, partly because it was used on somebody else without insurance. This in part is why the treatment is so expensive. Only a few are able to afford it. You better make sure your health insurance covers such things. Be Careful and Happy Hunting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake
Aaaahh, those bloody non-insured illegal people. Always waiting in the desert to get bitten exactly just before insured citizens. Only to cause them troubles. Bah. Holy nurse ... Sorry, best, Matthias - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 12:30 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake I was told by a local nurse that the average cost to treat a Mojave Green snake bite is between $60,000.00 and $70,000.00. I asked why so expensive? She claimed that illegal aliens, working mostly out-of-doors with no insurance are mainly to blame. None have insurance and the anti-venom is difficult to keep on hand. She claimed that many U.S. citizens with insurance have died because they could not get access to it in time, partly because it was used on somebody else without insurance. This in part is why the treatment is so expensive. Only a few are able to afford it. You better make sure your health insurance covers such things. Be Careful and Happy Hunting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake
Hi Mathias, I wasn't trying to make any political statement or otherwise. A List member asked if it would be practical to carry anti-venom in the field and my response is that it would be cost prohibitive. This is one of the first questions I asked when I moved out here. I certainly would not want to be in a position to make a choice of who lives or dies based on when/where they received a snakebite. A human being is a human being but the hospitals around here seem more concerned with keeping their doors open than keeping mass amounts of anti-venom on hand. To carry some in the field simply isn't practical. Best Regards, Adam - Original Message From: Matthias Bärmann majbaerm...@web.de To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com; Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, November 16, 2010 3:58:00 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake Aaaahh, those bloody non-insured illegal people. Always waiting in the desert to get bitten exactly just before insured citizens. Only to cause them troubles. Bah. Holy nurse ... Sorry, best, Matthias - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 12:30 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake I was told by a local nurse that the average cost to treat a Mojave Green snake bite is between $60,000.00 and $70,000.00. I asked why so expensive? She claimed that illegal aliens, working mostly out-of-doors with no insurance are mainly to blame. None have insurance and the anti-venom is difficult to keep on hand. She claimed that many U.S. citizens with insurance have died because they could not get access to it in time, partly because it was used on somebody else without insurance. This in part is why the treatment is so expensive. Only a few are able to afford it. You better make sure your health insurance covers such things. Be Careful and Happy Hunting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake
Cost prohibitive to save a life? ;) Hmmm How much cost are we talking? Seems counter intuitive to me Hell, I think most everything should be free, electricity, medical care, etc... Only problem is 99.9% of the people on Earth need money to get by from day to day. That sucks! I've never really understood why medical care isn't free. Let's see, the doctors and hospitals all say, Give me money and I'll save your life, or make you pain free, or cure your disease. Somehow that seems very wrong to me. Eventually I think humans will get past that BS and say Remember when humans used to charge for things like electricity and medical care...? How silly that was... ;) But whatever I get your point Adam, but what's the actual cost for vials of antivenin(venom)? $10k $20k $5k...? It must have been in the thousands for it to be considered cost prohibitive. Is it not practical or is it cost prohibitive or both? And how much are we talking? Eric On 11/16/2010 4:16 PM, Adam Hupe wrote: Hi Mathias, I wasn't trying to make any political statement or otherwise. A List member asked if it would be practical to carry anti-venom in the field and my response is that it would be cost prohibitive. This is one of the first questions I asked when I moved out here. I certainly would not want to be in a position to make a choice of who lives or dies based on when/where they received a snakebite. A human being is a human being but the hospitals around here seem more concerned with keeping their doors open than keeping mass amounts of anti-venom on hand. To carry some in the field simply isn't practical. Best Regards, Adam - Original Message From: Matthias Bärmannmajbaerm...@web.de To: Adam Huperaremeteori...@yahoo.com; Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, November 16, 2010 3:58:00 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake Aaaahh, those bloody non-insured illegal people. Always waiting in the desert to get bitten exactly just before insured citizens. Only to cause them troubles. Bah. Holy nurse ... Sorry, best, Matthias - Original Message - From: Adam Huperaremeteori...@yahoo.com To: Adammeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 12:30 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake I was told by a local nurse that the average cost to treat a Mojave Green snake bite is between $60,000.00 and $70,000.00. I asked why so expensive? She claimed that illegal aliens, working mostly out-of-doors with no insurance are mainly to blame. None have insurance and the anti-venom is difficult to keep on hand. She claimed that many U.S. citizens with insurance have died because they could not get access to it in time, partly because it was used on somebody else without insurance. This in part is why the treatment is so expensive. Only a few are able to afford it. You better make sure your health insurance covers such things. Be Careful and Happy Hunting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake
Whoa. Adam, I know you're only relating what you've been informed, but something needs to be said of the nurse's outrageous ignorance. The notion that aliens don't have insurance and U.S. citizens all carry insurance has hardly been the case. A significant fraction of the citizenry of Nevada and Arizona (and not just) have not been carrying health insurance. Moreover, citizens are not dying as a result of aliens using up antivenin stocks. The high cost of antivenin has to do with profit---not aliens. It has been extensively written about that antivenin does not generate sufficient profit for drug companies so the prices get hiked up to the Moon. And then no one buys it to keep on hand so there are shortages. All best / Darryl On Nov 16, 2010, at 6:30 PM, Adam Hupe wrote: I was told by a local nurse that the average cost to treat a Mojave Green snake bite is between $60,000.00 and $70,000.00. I asked why so expensive? She claimed that illegal aliens, working mostly out-of-doors with no insurance are mainly to blame. None have insurance and the anti-venom is difficult to keep on hand. She claimed that many U.S. citizens with insurance have died because they could not get access to it in time, partly because it was used on somebody else without insurance. This in part is why the treatment is so expensive. Only a few are able to afford it. You better make sure your health insurance covers such things. Be Careful and Happy Hunting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake
Hi Eric and List, The cost for rattlesnake anti-venom seems to be around $3,500.00 for a small vial. I imagine that a Mojave Green's venom which is double-acting would require special treatment. I am certainly not an expert on such things. Perhaps a zoo keeper that handles snakes can answer these questions since they keep anti-venom on hand. The local hospitals here no longer carry scorpion anti-venom and tell you to tuff it out for 22 days if you are stung by a nasty one. I was told it is no longer available at any costs. When I moved, my health insurance was no good here in Nevada. It took me over a year to find new insurance that would cover me nationally, not just in a single state. I went for over a year without insurance and was worried that if something happening in field, I would not be able to afford it. I had no idea this was an issue until I visited a doctor for an emergency and found my insurance was no good here. After being stung twice by scorpions and hearing of the mighty Mojave Green snake, I felt it necessary to inquire about such things. I repeated what was told. The people here in the Southwest have strong opinions about certain things so I take a lot of it with a grain of salt and yes, sometimes the comments come from ignorance. The main point is to do everything possible to avoid getting bitten or stung by some poisonous creature because treatment may not be readily available. Best Regards, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake
I would have to believe that the quoted cost is not for the antivenin treatment alone. The victim of such a snake bite would probably need to be admitted to an Intensive Care Unit with significant hemodynamic and possible respiratory support, not a cheap proposition. David -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Pitt Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 7:49 PM To: Adam Hupe Cc: Adam Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake Whoa. Adam, I know you're only relating what you've been informed, but something needs to be said of the nurse's outrageous ignorance. The notion that aliens don't have insurance and U.S. citizens all carry insurance has hardly been the case. A significant fraction of the citizenry of Nevada and Arizona (and not just) have not been carrying health insurance. Moreover, citizens are not dying as a result of aliens using up antivenin stocks. The high cost of antivenin has to do with profit---not aliens. It has been extensively written about that antivenin does not generate sufficient profit for drug companies so the prices get hiked up to the Moon. And then no one buys it to keep on hand so there are shortages. All best / Darryl On Nov 16, 2010, at 6:30 PM, Adam Hupe wrote: I was told by a local nurse that the average cost to treat a Mojave Green snake bite is between $60,000.00 and $70,000.00. I asked why so expensive? She claimed that illegal aliens, working mostly out-of-doors with no insurance are mainly to blame. None have insurance and the anti-venom is difficult to keep on hand. She claimed that many U.S. citizens with insurance have died because they could not get access to it in time, partly because it was used on somebody else without insurance. This in part is why the treatment is so expensive. Only a few are able to afford it. You better make sure your health insurance covers such things. Be Careful and Happy Hunting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list P Please consider the impact to the environment before printing this email. P Please consider the impact to the environment before printing this email. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake
Hello, A friend who was bitten 2 years ago by a Green stated that his medical cost from beginning to end was $64,000.00. This was in Tucson Arizona at the University Hospital. Best Wishes Michael Cottingham From: dr...@emersonhosp.org To: dar...@dof3.com; raremeteori...@yahoo.com Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 01:24:55 + CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake I would have to believe that the quoted cost is not for the antivenin treatment alone. The victim of such a snake bite would probably need to be admitted to an Intensive Care Unit with significant hemodynamic and possible respiratory support, not a cheap proposition. David -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Pitt Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 7:49 PM To: Adam Hupe Cc: Adam Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake Whoa. Adam, I know you're only relating what you've been informed, but something needs to be said of the nurse's outrageous ignorance. The notion that aliens don't have insurance and U.S. citizens all carry insurance has hardly been the case. A significant fraction of the citizenry of Nevada and Arizona (and not just) have not been carrying health insurance. Moreover, citizens are not dying as a result of aliens using up antivenin stocks. The high cost of antivenin has to do with profit---not aliens. It has been extensively written about that antivenin does not generate sufficient profit for drug companies so the prices get hiked up to the Moon. And then no one buys it to keep on hand so there are shortages. All best / Darryl On Nov 16, 2010, at 6:30 PM, Adam Hupe wrote: I was told by a local nurse that the average cost to treat a Mojave Green snake bite is between $60,000.00 and $70,000.00. I asked why so expensive? She claimed that illegal aliens, working mostly out-of-doors with no insurance are mainly to blame. None have insurance and the anti-venom is difficult to keep on hand. She claimed that many U.S. citizens with insurance have died because they could not get access to it in time, partly because it was used on somebody else without insurance. This in part is why the treatment is so expensive. Only a few are able to afford it. You better make sure your health insurance covers such things. Be Careful and Happy Hunting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list P Please consider the impact to the environment before printing this email. P Please consider the impact to the environment before printing this email. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake
Dear List Members, Just a note to warn meteorite hunters not to be too complacent. The most feared creature here in the Southwest is the Mojave Green Rattlesnake and rightfully so considering its venom is 75 times more deadly than that of a Cobra. You got about 1/2 hour to get anti-venom and if you survive a bite from this fellow, you can count on around a $60,000.00 hospital bill. They come out in the fall and you are most likely to run into one in the morning warming itself in the sun. They hide in and around creosote bushes which are everywhere. I see people listening to I Pods or wearing metal detector headphones while searching for meteorites, oblivious to their surroundings. The only warning we got when we ran into this deadly snake was the shaking of its rattles. I have heard Western Diamondbacks before and their rattle is much louder than the Mojave Green. I had a lot more confidence searching with knee high Kevlar snake boots until we ran into this fellow. The snake we ran into was up in the bush waist high before it dropped to the ground and took up a strike posture. We nicked named this large and fat, 4 foot plus snake Mojave Green Jeans Luckily, I had an image stabilizer on my camera. I may have been shaking more than the snake. The closer I got to it, the quicker the rattle shook. At one point, it sounded like a constant whoosh instead of a rattle. I would back off to about 6 feet away from it and then it would go silent for a while so I don't think they give you much warning. Just two weeks ago, we ran into a snake we were unable to identify which struck out at my brother in laws magnetic cane. It was also hidden in a bush. It wasn't a rattler but had some pretty wild looking checker board pattern. Meet Mojave Green Jeans: http://themeteoritesite.com/AMojaveGreen-a.jpg I Counted 11 Rattles, A Very Mature Snake: http://themeteoritesite.com/AMojaveGreen-b.jpg Side View: http://themeteoritesite.com/AMojaveGreen-c.jpg The Business End - Poised To Strike: http://themeteoritesite.com/AMojaveGreen-d.jpg Be Careful! Happy Hunting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake
Hi Adam, Good post. Everyone should carry a snake-bite kit when out hiking or prospecting in areas with venomous snakes. We have rattlesnakes down here in Florida and they congregate in areas of thick Palmetto bushes where they are impossible to see. When I was a kid and used to go hiking with my dad and grandpa, we always carried a snake bite kit - such a kit can buy you some time and spare you some misery until you get to a hospital. Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 11/15/10, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Dear List Members, Just a note to warn meteorite hunters not to be too complacent. The most feared creature here in the Southwest is the Mojave Green Rattlesnake and rightfully so considering its venom is 75 times more deadly than that of a Cobra. You got about 1/2 hour to get anti-venom and if you survive a bite from this fellow, you can count on around a $60,000.00 hospital bill. They come out in the fall and you are most likely to run into one in the morning warming itself in the sun. They hide in and around creosote bushes which are everywhere. I see people listening to I Pods or wearing metal detector headphones while searching for meteorites, oblivious to their surroundings. The only warning we got when we ran into this deadly snake was the shaking of its rattles. I have heard Western Diamondbacks before and their rattle is much louder than the Mojave Green. I had a lot more confidence searching with knee high Kevlar snake boots until we ran into this fellow. The snake we ran into was up in the bush waist high before it dropped to the ground and took up a strike posture. We nicked named this large and fat, 4 foot plus snake Mojave Green Jeans Luckily, I had an image stabilizer on my camera. I may have been shaking more than the snake. The closer I got to it, the quicker the rattle shook. At one point, it sounded like a constant whoosh instead of a rattle. I would back off to about 6 feet away from it and then it would go silent for a while so I don't think they give you much warning. Just two weeks ago, we ran into a snake we were unable to identify which struck out at my brother in laws magnetic cane. It was also hidden in a bush. It wasn't a rattler but had some pretty wild looking checker board pattern. Meet Mojave Green Jeans: http://themeteoritesite.com/AMojaveGreen-a.jpg I Counted 11 Rattles, A Very Mature Snake: http://themeteoritesite.com/AMojaveGreen-b.jpg Side View: http://themeteoritesite.com/AMojaveGreen-c.jpg The Business End - Poised To Strike: http://themeteoritesite.com/AMojaveGreen-d.jpg Be Careful! Happy Hunting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake
Hi List, What makes the venom of a Mohave Green so lethal is it's complex hemo/neuro cocktail of enzymes. It has a component that allows the venom to diffuse through human tissue quickly using the lymph and vascular systems. It takes away the ability of your red blood cells to carry oxygen while at the same time shutting down the sympathetic nervous system. Basically, you become paralyzed and suffocate to death while twitching, swelling and bleeding from almost every orfice and internally. The Mohave is rated as one of the ten deadliest snakes in the world and next to the nine foot Eastern Diamondback us the most dangerous snake in America. It is responsible for several deaths a season. Many of us here in the Mohave Desert have developed and follow this ten step protocol to treat a venemous snake bite. I am not a physician and you should avail yourself of professional assistance if bitten. I am only relating what I have seen and been told by others for your 1. Sit victim down. 2. Call 911 and note the time. 3.Send for vehicle, or arrange to carry victim to pick up point keeping bite site below heart. 3. Forcefully urinate in bite mark. (It's sterile and neutralizes some enzymes in the venom and washes it out of wound.) 4. Place suction cups from kit on fang holes, or cuts. 5.Draw two inch circle around fang marks with pen, or marker. 6. Don't squeeze on wound trying to get venom out. 7. Place lymph restriction band from kit on center of muscle of calf, or bicep, just tight enough to depress flesh 1/4 inch. 8. Place ice pack around limb above bite. 9. If available, have victim drink twice normal dosage of liquid antihystamine from an over the counter children's allergy medicine. 10.Photograph head and tail of snake, or bring it with you!!! Look where you put your feet and hands. Meteorite canes and staffs will protect you somewhat. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Sent: Nov 15, 2010 8:48 AM To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com Cc: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake Hi Adam, Good post. Everyone should carry a snake-bite kit when out hiking or prospecting in areas with venomous snakes. We have rattlesnakes down here in Florida and they congregate in areas of thick Palmetto bushes where they are impossible to see. When I was a kid and used to go hiking with my dad and grandpa, we always carried a snake bite kit - such a kit can buy you some time and spare you some misery until you get to a hospital. Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 11/15/10, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Dear List Members, Just a note to warn meteorite hunters not to be too complacent. The most feared creature here in the Southwest is the Mojave Green Rattlesnake and rightfully so considering its venom is 75 times more deadly than that of a Cobra. You got about 1/2 hour to get anti-venom and if you survive a bite from this fellow, you can count on around a $60,000.00 hospital bill. They come out in the fall and you are most likely to run into one in the morning warming itself in the sun. They hide in and around creosote bushes which are everywhere. I see people listening to I Pods or wearing metal detector headphones while searching for meteorites, oblivious to their surroundings. The only warning we got when we ran into this deadly snake was the shaking of its rattles. I have heard Western Diamondbacks before and their rattle is much louder than the Mojave Green. I had a lot more confidence searching with knee high Kevlar snake boots until we ran into this fellow. The snake we ran into was up in the bush waist high before it dropped to the ground and took up a strike posture. We nicked named this large and fat, 4 foot plus snake Mojave Green Jeans Luckily, I had an image stabilizer on my camera. I may have been shaking more than the snake. The closer I got to it, the quicker the rattle shook. At one point, it sounded like a constant whoosh instead of a rattle. I would back off to about 6 feet away from it and then it would go silent for a while so I don't think they give you much warning. Just two weeks ago, we ran into a snake we were unable to identify which struck out at my brother in laws magnetic cane. It was also hidden in a bush
Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake
Hey Guido, List, Not sure the ice thing would be a good idea. The DoD, suggests that ice is a cause of amputation in snake bites (see link below). Also the CDC and WebMD discourages the use of ice in the treatment of snakebite. ...Don't use ice to slow the spread of the venom. Researchers have found freezing of the stricken limb is a major factor leading to amputation... SOURCE: http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=45207 CDC: ...Do not apply ice or immerse the wound in water http://www.bt.cdc.gov/disasters/snakebite.asp WebMD: ...Do NOT use ice. Ice does not deactivate the venom and can cause frostbite... http://firstaid.webmd.com/snakebite-treatment Regards, Eric On 11/15/2010 11:54 AM, Count Deiro wrote: Place ice pack around limb above bite. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake
Not sure the ice thing would be a good idea. The DoD, suggests that ice is a cause of amputation in snake bites (see link below). Also the CDC and WebMD discourages the use of ice in the treatment of snakebite. I was in the Fire Service for 30 years and I'd swear that the treatment for snake bite varied almost yearly. Not sure what the current method is now, but doing something is better than doing nothing. For sure try to keep the victim calm, quiet and not physically active. I'd avoid the ice and put a light restricting band between the swelling and the heart. Don't suck with the mouth, but use a suction device. Don't cut across the fang marks and get to a doctors care ASAP. Those are probably the major things in regards to snake bite. GeoZay __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake
Hi Eric and List. Yeah! There are many who officially say not to use ice, but they have to give advice to the lowest common denominator of possible victim. The slightly smarter of us know you can freeze your limb. The purpose of the cooling is to slow the circulation of blood, venom and lymph and reduce swelling..which with this snake is a major problem. Our guide line is don't cool it to the point where you can't feel the surface of the skin. It works...I've seen it used on bites and stings. Guido -Original Message- From: Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com Sent: Nov 15, 2010 12:11 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake Hey Guido, List, Not sure the ice thing would be a good idea. The DoD, suggests that ice is a cause of amputation in snake bites (see link below). Also the CDC and WebMD discourages the use of ice in the treatment of snakebite. ...Don't use ice to slow the spread of the venom. Researchers have found freezing of the stricken limb is a major factor leading to amputation... SOURCE: http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=45207 CDC: ...Do not apply ice or immerse the wound in water http://www.bt.cdc.gov/disasters/snakebite.asp WebMD: ...Do NOT use ice. Ice does not deactivate the venom and can cause frostbite... http://firstaid.webmd.com/snakebite-treatment Regards, Eric On 11/15/2010 11:54 AM, Count Deiro wrote: Place ice pack around limb above bite. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake
Another good point that people often don't think of is to remove jewelry on the affected limb. Rings especially. The swelling from a snakebite is unbelievable. A hand can get almost as big as a soccer ball. A ring left on will cost you that finger. Transport fast and call ahead if possible, it takes awhile to get antivenom ready. Thomas M -former Mojave area ER nurse __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake
Listoids, Besides meteorites we are also keepers and breeders of these nasty worms for almost 30 years now. Besides several Cobra species, Puffadders, Asian and African Bushvipers we also have some Rattlers as well. Never got bitten until about 3 months back. We had a nest of 7 babies, at least I thought sonumber 8 showed itself after removing the water bowl from their cage and got me right in one of my fingers. When you think of a baby ratler produces less venom your way wrong!! The thing is they still need to learn how to control the amount of venom needed when hunting for prey. The adults may even give a dry bite many times just to defend themselves and are more or less aware they need their venom better to catch prey. I got a bite from an adult Diamond Back a few years ago and nothing happened.. Believe me, when they stike and give you the full amountyou'll know!! Immediately when that baby got me, my finger started swelling up. The pain was unbaerable. When you feel the venom is pumped in your finger it feels like a very hot local electric shock. After a few hours my arm turned all colors of the rainbow and at the end my complete arm was swollen over 6 inches thicker than my other arm. I ended up at the ICU with tubes sticking out from every hole in my body, beeping monitors everywhere and needed 8 vails of antivenom with an even more dangerous risknot everybody reacts positive on these antivenoms and they even may get things worse. You even may suffer from an aflectic shock (an extra alergic reaction from the rattlers venom) which also can be deadly. Because all went pretty fast and I was in time for proper treatment I still have my arm (with my finger still numb though) Most of my smaller vains were eaten by the hematoxin which caused the black and blue colors, I stll have some kidney and liver failure but at least I'm still alive. The antivenom really worked well in my case and after that the recovery went really fast. Just an extra warning on all posts about this subjectbe carefull also for the babies!!! Theres an old saying going in our crazy hobby about rattlers: A rattlesnake is a nasty desert worm sayingf...ck off on one sideand that's why... on the other !! Take care on these desert hunts!! Jan, IMCA 9833 Holland - Original Message - From: Thomas tmor...@mind.net To: Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake Another good point that people often don't think of is to remove jewelry on the affected limb. Rings especially. The swelling from a snakebite is unbelievable. A hand can get almost as big as a soccer ball. A ring left on will cost you that finger. Transport fast and call ahead if possible, it takes awhile to get antivenom ready. Thomas M -former Mojave area ER nurse __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3258 - Release Date: 11/15/10 08:34:00 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake
Hi Geo and List, I agree snake bite treatment has changed over the years. Rapid transportation along with antivenom is the antidote for a snakebite. I would always carry a cell phone, and a Spot locator / personal locator in the field. With these two items, a cell phone and personal locator you increase your chances of survival. Antivenom is the antidote for a snakebite! There are so many variables that it would be hard to say what is the ideal thing to do. Here is some of the current research for a venomous snake bite. Recommendations for the treatment of rattlesnake bites have been the subject of debate. Tourniquets may not be helpful in affecting overall outcome. Originally designed to obstruct lymph flow, the significance of lymph drainage to systemic morbidity and mortality has never been clearly es- tablished. In addition, tourniquets may be applied too tightly, leading to venous congestion and further damage to an already injured extremity. In general, incision and suction may not be considered Some authorities still recommend suction if a patient is more than an hour away from definitive care, but it must be begun within 5 minutes and is of abso- lutely no use if started more than 15 minutes after envenoma- tion. At best no more than 10% to 20% of the venom can be removed. In the past, applying ice had been recommended to cool the snakebite area locally or even an entire extremity. This is no longer recommended. Recently the American Association of Poison Control Centers and the American College of Emergency Physicians have recommended the following measures for first aid: (1) immobilize the bitten part, (2) remove constrictive items and rings, (3) put the victim at rest and (4)transport to the nearest medical facility. Venom ER When snakes strike! By Sean Bush, MD Imagine that a rattlesnake has just bitten you. At first you can't believe it, but you look at your leg and there are two fang puncture wounds oozing blood. You have a strange metallic taste in your mouth. Your leg starts to swell and you develop severe pain. Your whole body goes numb. The muscles in your face, neck, and chest start to twitch and writhe. Breathing becomes difficult. You feel as if you are going to faint--as if you are going to die? What should you do? Here is what you need to know. First, call 911. Go to the closest emergency department where antivenom can be given to you. Antivenom is the antidote for snakebite. It binds venom and inactivates it so that further damage is stopped. The case above describes what could happen in the worst case scenario. Sometimes snakebites result in only minor injury. However, it is not possible to predict which bites will result in mild symptoms and which can potentially kill you. Therefore, you should always seek immediate medical care after any venomous snakebite. All patients with rattlesnake bites should be admitted to the hospital.If a snake bites you Let's return to our scenario of what could happen to you after a rattlesnake bite. You should try not to panic and minimize activity if possible. However, if you are alone in the wilderness or far from access to medical care, you may have to hike out to the nearest phone.Remove jewelry and tight-fitting clothes in anticipation of severe swelling. Do not cut across fang marks and do not try to suck out the venom with your mouth or a suction device. This could lead to complications and infections. A tourniquet is not recommended because it could cut off circulation. However, an ace wrap and splint may delay the time to death in the rare event of a fatal bite, but could risk further injury to an arm or leg.Do not take aspirin or ibuprofen after snakebite. Many snake venoms can thin the blood and these medicines may compound this effect, leading to bleeding. Other first aid that does not help or that is potentially more harmful than the snakebite includes applying electric shock, drinking alcohol, and placing ice directly on the wound. Avoid further injury by staying away from the snake. Paramedics should arrive shortly and start you on intravenous fluids. They should transport you to the hospital. Shortly after you arrive at the hospital, antivenom may be started. You may start to feel better. However, depending on the extent of injury, you may require pain medication and a surgeon may be called to evaluate your bite wounds. Sonny -Original Message- From: GeoZay geo...@aol.com To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, Nov 15, 2010 8:20 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake Not sure the ice thing would be a good idea. The DoD, suggests that ice is a cause of amputation in snake bites (see link below). Also the CDC and WebMD discourages the use of ice in the treatment of snakebite.I was in the Fire Service for 30 years and I'd swear that the treatment for snake bite varied almost yearly
Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake
Hi all, those are nasty for sure. Two years ago down at Franconia I ran into this little guy. I was for sure spooked, and counted 10 rattles, which doesn't mean a whole lot, other than it's a big snake. Needless to say, I felt that those meteorites could wait another few months until cooler weather. http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj224/JayrayNV/snake1jun08Franconia.jpg Jason On Nov 15, 2010, at 2:56 PM, Jan Bartels wrote: Listoids, Besides meteorites we are also keepers and breeders of these nasty worms for almost 30 years now. Besides several Cobra species, Puffadders, Asian and African Bushvipers we also have some Rattlers as well. Never got bitten until about 3 months back. We had a nest of 7 babies, at least I thought sonumber 8 showed itself after removing the water bowl from their cage and got me right in one of my fingers. When you think of a baby ratler produces less venom your way wrong!! The thing is they still need to learn how to control the amount of venom needed when hunting for prey. The adults may even give a dry bite many times just to defend themselves and are more or less aware they need their venom better to catch prey. I got a bite from an adult Diamond Back a few years ago and nothing happened.. Believe me, when they stike and give you the full amountyou'll know!! Immediately when that baby got me, my finger started swelling up. The pain was unbaerable. When you feel the venom is pumped in your finger it feels like a very hot local electric shock. After a few hours my arm turned all colors of the rainbow and at the end my complete arm was swollen over 6 inches thicker than my other arm. I ended up at the ICU with tubes sticking out from every hole in my body, beeping monitors everywhere and needed 8 vails of antivenom with an even more dangerous risknot everybody reacts positive on these antivenoms and they even may get things worse. You even may suffer from an aflectic shock (an extra alergic reaction from the rattlers venom) which also can be deadly. Because all went pretty fast and I was in time for proper treatment I still have my arm (with my finger still numb though) Most of my smaller vains were eaten by the hematoxin which caused the black and blue colors, I stll have some kidney and liver failure but at least I'm still alive. The antivenom really worked well in my case and after that the recovery went really fast. Just an extra warning on all posts about this subjectbe carefull also for the babies!!! Theres an old saying going in our crazy hobby about rattlers: A rattlesnake is a nasty desert worm sayingf...ck off on one sideand that's why... on the other !! Take care on these desert hunts!! Jan, IMCA 9833 Holland - Original Message - From: Thomas tmor...@mind.net To: Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake Another good point that people often don't think of is to remove jewelry on the affected limb. Rings especially. The swelling from a snakebite is unbelievable. A hand can get almost as big as a soccer ball. A ring left on will cost you that finger. Transport fast and call ahead if possible, it takes awhile to get antivenom ready. Thomas M -former Mojave area ER nurse __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3258 - Release Date: 11/15/10 08:34:00 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake
Looks like your little guy has a full belly... ;) Eric On 11/15/2010 5:41 PM, Jay Annette wrote: Hi all, those are nasty for sure. Two years ago down at Franconia I ran into this little guy. I was for sure spooked, and counted 10 rattles, which doesn't mean a whole lot, other than it's a big snake. Needless to say, I felt that those meteorites could wait another few months until cooler weather. http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj224/JayrayNV/snake1jun08Franconia.jpg Jason On Nov 15, 2010, at 2:56 PM, Jan Bartels wrote: Listoids, Besides meteorites we are also keepers and breeders of these nasty worms for almost 30 years now. Besides several Cobra species, Puffadders, Asian and African Bushvipers we also have some Rattlers as well. Never got bitten until about 3 months back. We had a nest of 7 babies, at least I thought sonumber 8 showed itself after removing the water bowl from their cage and got me right in one of my fingers. When you think of a baby ratler produces less venom your way wrong!! The thing is they still need to learn how to control the amount of venom needed when hunting for prey. The adults may even give a dry bite many times just to defend themselves and are more or less aware they need their venom better to catch prey. I got a bite from an adult Diamond Back a few years ago and nothing happened.. Believe me, when they stike and give you the full amountyou'll know!! Immediately when that baby got me, my finger started swelling up. The pain was unbaerable. When you feel the venom is pumped in your finger it feels like a very hot local electric shock. After a few hours my arm turned all colors of the rainbow and at the end my complete arm was swollen over 6 inches thicker than my other arm. I ended up at the ICU with tubes sticking out from every hole in my body, beeping monitors everywhere and needed 8 vails of antivenom with an even more dangerous risknot everybody reacts positive on these antivenoms and they even may get things worse. You even may suffer from an aflectic shock (an extra alergic reaction from the rattlers venom) which also can be deadly. Because all went pretty fast and I was in time for proper treatment I still have my arm (with my finger still numb though) Most of my smaller vains were eaten by the hematoxin which caused the black and blue colors, I stll have some kidney and liver failure but at least I'm still alive. The antivenom really worked well in my case and after that the recovery went really fast. Just an extra warning on all posts about this subjectbe carefull also for the babies!!! Theres an old saying going in our crazy hobby about rattlers: A rattlesnake is a nasty desert worm sayingf...ck off on one sideand that's why... on the other !! Take care on these desert hunts!! Jan, IMCA 9833 Holland - Original Message - From: Thomastmor...@mind.net To: Meteorite-listmeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mojave Green Jeans - Images of a Killer Snake Another good point that people often don't think of is to remove jewelry on the affected limb. Rings especially. The swelling from a snakebite is unbelievable. A hand can get almost as big as a soccer ball. A ring left on will cost you that finger. Transport fast and call ahead if possible, it takes awhile to get antivenom ready. Thomas M -former Mojave area ER nurse __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3258 - Release Date: 11/15/10 08:34:00 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
