Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
My final rant on the subject: Happy Canyon Meteorite today: 4.4 grams= $225 @ $50 per/gm http://www.meteoritelab.com/estore/?findid=68c=Meteorite Price I paid in 1974 from Huss and Nininger .60 cents per/gm. I got 24 grams at that price, $14.40 cents. 83 fold increase since 1974 Kenna Meteorite today: 9.65 grams=1,690 at ~$175 per/gm http://www.schoolersinc.com/meteorites_p_9c.htm Price I paid from Nininger and Hus sometime in the late 1970s $1 per/gm. 15.5 grams $15.50 cents. 109 fold increase since the 1970s COOLIDGE, Kansas today: A rare rare C3.8: 12.1 grams=$1,900.00 ~$157 per/gm http://www.nyrockman.com/catalog.htm Price I paid in 1971 for a 8.1 gram piece from Nininger and Huss was $2 or about ~.25 cents per/gm. A 628 fold increase since my 1971 price. Bruderhiem Meteorite today: 4.8 grams=$480 at $100 per/gm http://www.meteoriteguy.com/catalog/bruderheim.htm Price I paid for a fully crusted 130 gram individual from the same institution in 1973 $30 or 23 cents per gram 423 fold increase since my 1973 price that I paid then. And of course this one Murchison that arrived at my door in Jan of 1970. 160 grams if I remember right as it is sitting in a safe deposit box a beautiful half crusted stone that I got from one in Australia, who actually saw it fall and picked it up moments after. $50 ! about 30 cents per gram Today about $100 per/gm. At todays price $16,000+ A 320 fold increase over my 1970 price. Oh, I forgot another A nice piece of Pasamonte $2 per/gram in 1971. I still have it, about 2.6 grams with the Niningers hand written number in India ink on white paint; a very nice fusion crusted fragment. $5.20 cents. Try to find that at virtually any price today. And I have many others I could mention, such as a crusted 22.5 gram half slide of Cumberland Falls that I got in 1980 for $2 per/gm. (I thought it high high price then). And that .87 gram fusion crusted piece of Lafayette Indiana that I have $2 bucks a gram for that one too, when few believed it came from Mars. And today that tiny .87 gram piece is worth Go figure. Do the math, the percentage increase for these meteorites. Compare it to the devaluation of todays dollar against that of the 1960s,70s and now These meteorites compared to the devaluation of todays dollars seem to be a very good investment for sure. But I never looked at them as investments just things from space, a curiosity, a piece of space that I could hold in my hand and imagine Boy oh boy, those were the good old days as I remember them when it was fairly easy to get meteorites, ALL meteorites at rock bottom values Pennies for small pieces in the early 60s. Those days when meteorites were sold for $10 or less per/lb; it was not that hard for the average person to amass a fantastic collection. Bob Haag did really well when he jumped in when he did. I could have done it too, as I had been collecting small pieces since I was in grade school in the 1960s. It was and still is a hobby for me But I did not see the light as Bob did. Some that knew I was collecting meteorites long before Bob Haag even got interested in them asked me, Why did you not become a millionaire like Haag? Why? A hobby for me, and I don't have Bob's Midas Touch when it comes to sales and selling. I am happy where I was then and now. Ah, but Bob Haag gave us a some of the good old days too. He sold me a batch of Neuvo Mecurio soon after it fell for the then astounding price of a buck a gram. At the time it was a good deal And Mike Farmer has brought the flavor of the good old days from time to time. When Bob brought in a big batch of Millbillillie meteorites about 1990 or 91, he was selling them at $2.50 to $3.00 per/gm. BOY! That was an old time deal! Look at the price of that meteorite now. I bought a bunch of them for sure, cherry picked out some nice full crusted ones, and right out of the pile that produced that moon rock he found. (I wish I had seen it first, LOL). Then after that, all hell broke out in Australia as the landowners lost workers for their crops, and the workers were out instead finding meteorites. And later batches of stones that came out were nicked or cut to see if they were lunars. Then the Australian laws kicked in. Virtually impossible to obtain meteorites from that country now. Laws are the real problem, and when Nations, landowners, and finders get the legal itch does not take to much thought to see where it is going and has gone. For me, I remember my good old days fondly. It was much easier to obtain meteorites then with my hard earned wages than it is today But the good old days I am sure will come for this generation, the next and others after. Today, I am disabled, having suffered a major affliction and brain operation. In fact I got out of the hospital near eight years ago to this very day. Home bound, and
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
Greetings Darren and all, The link you give is for terrestrial peridot. Steve is trying to sell peridot from space rocks which is more unique. If you just want peridot then there is plenty of that. If you want peridot from space rocks there are only about 40 some falls and finds of this type of material making it much more rare. --AL Mitterling Quoting Darren Garrison cyna...@charter.net: On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 22:00:28 -0500, you wrote: It is my understanding that they are considerably more rare than diamonds yet are priced well below the cost of an equivalent flawless diamond. http://www.arizona-peridot.com/Peridot_Prices.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
The space gems need to be marketed to high profile fashionistas like Lady GaGa, Kendra, Paris Hilton and the Kardashians. With Kim and Khloe flashing those babies as they hobnob with the crowned heads of Europe, the demand will grow like wildfire. Soon every rock star and Hollywood actor will want one. Justin Beiber will pierce his nose to sport a space jewel! Elton John will have them set in a fancy-dancy pair of specs. Steve will be out of debt in no time. Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
Why don't we discuss the real issue with this thread? Is nobody else offended by the idea of destroying meteorites for commercial gain? I do realize that the scientific value of Brenham pallasites is extremely low. Many hundreds of kg are held by museums, so chances are that the destruction by dealers of a few hundred kg more to extract the olivine will not result in irreversible harm to science. But what if some cult placed a high value on ritually consuming Martian/lunar meteorites or angrites, or CAIs, and the price for powdered meteorites skyrocketed? Would it be ethical to destroy these meteorites for profit? And, are such practices harmful, in the long-run, to both science and the avocation of meteorite collecting? A large part of the tension between the scientific and collector communities, including the creation of much-reviled export and ownership laws in some countries, arises from the perception that national scientific treasures are being lost. This sort of practice by dealers could make the situation so much worse. Jeff On 2/21/2011 5:59 AM, JoshuaTreeMuseum wrote: The space gems need to be marketed to high profile fashionistas like Lady GaGa, Kendra, Paris Hilton and the Kardashians. With Kim and Khloe flashing those babies as they hobnob with the crowned heads of Europe, the demand will grow like wildfire. Soon every rock star and Hollywood actor will want one. Justin Beiber will pierce his nose to sport a space jewel! Elton John will have them set in a fancy-dancy pair of specs. Steve will be out of debt in no time. Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
Hi JeffList I don't know it is commercial gain which has been the engine behind so much of the last decade's expanding interest in meteorites which has resulted in hundreds of important new meteorites for science. While I understand your sensitivity, I don't think a real issue is the postulated object of desire of an imaginary cult group. Also, a detail. As it regards marketing to the list of high profile bimbettes in the list below---one doesn't really market to them. One gives to them and they then market to the rest of us who choose to pay attention. In a similar vein, I have recently worked to encourage the interest of the black community's interest in meteorites through the music portal. I've met with Russell Simmons regarding the same and hopefully something will soon stick. All best / darryl On Feb 21, 2011, at 7:41 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote: Why don't we discuss the real issue with this thread? Is nobody else offended by the idea of destroying meteorites for commercial gain? I do realize that the scientific value of Brenham pallasites is extremely low. Many hundreds of kg are held by museums, so chances are that the destruction by dealers of a few hundred kg more to extract the olivine will not result in irreversible harm to science. But what if some cult placed a high value on ritually consuming Martian/lunar meteorites or angrites, or CAIs, and the price for powdered meteorites skyrocketed? Would it be ethical to destroy these meteorites for profit? And, are such practices harmful, in the long-run, to both science and the avocation of meteorite collecting? A large part of the tension between the scientific and collector communities, including the creation of much-reviled export and ownership laws in some countries, arises from the perception that national scientific treasures are being lost. This sort of practice by dealers could make the situation so much worse. Jeff On 2/21/2011 5:59 AM, JoshuaTreeMuseum wrote: The space gems need to be marketed to high profile fashionistas like Lady GaGa, Kendra, Paris Hilton and the Kardashians. With Kim and Khloe flashing those babies as they hobnob with the crowned heads of Europe, the demand will grow like wildfire. Soon every rock star and Hollywood actor will want one. Justin Beiber will pierce his nose to sport a space jewel! Elton John will have them set in a fancy-dancy pair of specs. Steve will be out of debt in no time. Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
CorrectAnd from what I understand, finding them of any size unfractured suitable for jewelry is even more rare. almi...@localnet.com wrote: Greetings Darren and all, The link you give is for terrestrial peridot. Steve is trying to sell peridot from space rocks which is more unique. If you just want peridot then there is plenty of that. If you want peridot from space rocks there are only about 40 some falls and finds of this type of material making it much more rare. --AL Mitterling Quoting Darren Garrison cyna...@charter.net: On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 22:00:28 -0500, you wrote: It is my understanding that they are considerably more rare than diamonds yet are priced well below the cost of an equivalent flawless diamond. http://www.arizona-peridot.com/Peridot_Prices.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
Hi, too busy to secrete my usual suada ;-) So only a quick thought. Please keep in mind, that the Brenham prices today are a fraction of that, what Brenham had cost in the years after its first recovery and much cheaper than that what was asked in Nininger times, and finally much lower than that, what all museums and curators had paid for their hundreds of kilos you mentioned. The commerce-argumentation was perhaps still possible in the 1980ies, but certainly not in the last 2 decades. Best! Martin On Feb 21, 2011, at 7:41 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote: Why don't we discuss the real issue with this thread? Is nobody else offended by the idea of destroying meteorites for commercial gain? I do realize that the scientific value of Brenham pallasites is extremely low. Many hundreds of kg are held by museums, so chances are that the destruction by dealers of a few hundred kg more to extract the olivine will not result in irreversible harm to science. But what if some cult placed a high value on ritually consuming Martian/lunar meteorites or angrites, or CAIs, and the price for powdered meteorites skyrocketed? Would it be ethical to destroy these meteorites for profit? And, are such practices harmful, in the long-run, to both science and the avocation of meteorite collecting? A large part of the tension between the scientific and collector communities, including the creation of much-reviled export and ownership laws in some countries, arises from the perception that national scientific treasures are being lost. This sort of practice by dealers could make the situation so much worse. Jeff On 2/21/2011 5:59 AM, JoshuaTreeMuseum wrote: The space gems need to be marketed to high profile fashionistas like Lady GaGa, Kendra, Paris Hilton and the Kardashians. With Kim and Khloe flashing those babies as they hobnob with the crowned heads of Europe, the demand will grow like wildfire. Soon every rock star and Hollywood actor will want one. Justin Beiber will pierce his nose to sport a space jewel! Elton John will have them set in a fancy-dancy pair of specs. Steve will be out of debt in no time. Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
Please folks, isnt the REAL issue here simply the way some deal with landowners? I really don't blame these landowners at all for feeling slighted. I mean, we have to be reasonable, cautious, and even conservative, when it comes to discussing what the landowners will receive if something good is found on their property. Planting visions of big money certainly is a questionable tactic, and only paves the way for circumstances such as this to arise. Its a slippery slope we find ourselves on these days, dealing with landowners, and we, as meteorite hunters, need to recognize the fact that if not for cooperating landowners, we would likely be doing something else all together. The landowner's satisfaction should come first and foremost, after all, they own the property, and are at a certain risk just allowing us onto their land. A classic case of a dog biting the hand that feeds him. I do understand the (unforeseen?) problems that can unfold, such as lack of a market, and so forth, this, moreover lends to the idea of approaching with conservative caution, not promises of big money and vacation homes. We also need to realize that what we do out there in the field, as well as at the market place, reflects on ALL meteorite hunters, and WE NEED TO ACT ACCORDINGLY This situation needs to be FIXED!! --Mike A. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
Hi Folks, Some very good points were raised here. And as silly as it sounds, Phil is right on the money (no pun intended). Send a few of those mounted palladots to the Kardashians and some other high-profile socialites and you might create a market for them. Celestial origin or not, they are peridot. The vast majority of laypeople are not aware of the difference in origins and many just don't care. The difference is in marketing and with the economy being terrible right now, it's not a good time to start marketing a high-end, niche collectible. So it's definitely an uphill climb to market something in the 1-2ct range for thousands of dollars. Peridot is found in all pallasites, and the quality varies greatly. I've had a large 1g peridot crystal that came out of a piece of Pallasovka. It was stunning. It had very few fractures or inclusions. The clarity was outstanding. I sold it for $20. This was about 3 years ago and now I kick myself, because if marketed in a manner similar to palladot, it would be worth $5000-$25000 dollars. My buyer got a huge bargain. In hindsight, if I had priced it at $1k/ct, I'd still have it because the majority of my customer base is not in the market for multi-thousand dollar gemstones. If I am a landowner, and someone approaches me with an offer like the one being discussed here, my first request as a potential investor would be to see a prospectus with past market performance of such materials. Without any previous market presence, one can arbitrarily slap any value on a given item. So I do place some blame on the landowners for their predicament, because they readily let greed get the best of them and signed away their ownership of these specimens to someone who came knocking on their door with a good sales pitch. If someone knocks on my front door and offers to sell me a $20,000 vacuum cleaner, and I buy it - who is to blame? On the other hand, Mike Antonelli nailed it - when in doubt, the landowner is right. This is where a lesson from retail salesmanship should be applied - the customer is always right. In this case, the customer is the landowner (in a sense), and you want to keep those people happy at almost all costs. So don't make promises you will have difficulty keeping. All meteorite hunters are ambassadors for our field/hobby, and they must be very careful with how they are perceived. Sometimes the finer details are not as important as perceptions, and in this case, there are some strongly negative perceptions in place. Filing a lawsuit and following through with it is a big PITA and is not undertaken lightly. There is bad blood in the Brenham area and the next crop of meteorite hunters who go knocking on doors in Kansas are likely to be turned away empty-handed - unless the perceptions change. Well, at any rate, it makes me glad that my hunting is done from the confines of an arm-chair. ;) Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 2/21/11, MIke Antonelli mfranci...@verizon.net wrote: Please folks, isnt the REAL issue here simply the way some deal with landowners? I really don't blame these landowners at all for feeling slighted. I mean, we have to be reasonable, cautious, and even conservative, when it comes to discussing what the landowners will receive if something good is found on their property. Planting visions of big money certainly is a questionable tactic, and only paves the way for circumstances such as this to arise. Its a slippery slope we find ourselves on these days, dealing with landowners, and we, as meteorite hunters, need to recognize the fact that if not for cooperating landowners, we would likely be doing something else all together. The landowner's satisfaction should come first and foremost, after all, they own the property, and are at a certain risk just allowing us onto their land. A classic case of a dog biting the hand that feeds him. I do understand the (unforeseen?) problems that can unfold, such as lack of a market, and so forth, this, moreover lends to the idea of approaching with conservative caution, not promises of big money and vacation homes. We also need to realize that what we do out there in the field, as well as at the market place, reflects on ALL meteorite hunters, and WE NEED TO ACT ACCORDINGLY This situation needs to be FIXED!! --Mike A. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
Adam, One of the main problems is with trust. Speaking of trust. Is there a way to certify this material from Earth peridot? Wait until the eBay *posers* get word of this new Space Gem. Kaching, (sp)? Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: One of the main problems is with trust. This strewn field has been available for over 100 years and for all practical purposes now may be closed. It only takes one or two angry landowners to shut down the entire area to meteorite hunters. News of fraud, lawsuits and unpaid promised large sums of money, real or imagined spread like wildfire through these rural communities. The quicker this is resolved, the better. The hunting tradition in this area dates back to the Kimberly's, Nininger and Haag. It would be a shame to see it permanently off-limits now. Unfortunately, I witnessed the same thing with with the avocation of treasure hunting which still has not recovered after 25 years. Property owners used to grant permission freely to search but this is a rarity these days. Happy Hunting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
Just so we keep things straight the Admire meteorites are the ones being melted down for their peridot and also the strewn field where the landowner lives that was given big expectations about the returns of the meteorites found on his land. On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 8:30 AM, cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: Adam, One of the main problems is with trust. Speaking of trust. Is there a way to certify this material from Earth peridot? Wait until the eBay *posers* get word of this new Space Gem. Kaching, (sp)? Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: One of the main problems is with trust. This strewn field has been available for over 100 years and for all practical purposes now may be closed. It only takes one or two angry landowners to shut down the entire area to meteorite hunters. News of fraud, lawsuits and unpaid promised large sums of money, real or imagined spread like wildfire through these rural communities. The quicker this is resolved, the better. The hunting tradition in this area dates back to the Kimberly's, Nininger and Haag. It would be a shame to see it permanently off-limits now. Unfortunately, I witnessed the same thing with with the avocation of treasure hunting which still has not recovered after 25 years. Property owners used to grant permission freely to search but this is a rarity these days. Happy Hunting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mike Miller 3835 E Nicole Ave Kingman Az 86409 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-757-1378 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
Are these meteorites actually being melted down for their peridot? What happens to the rest of the meteorite? I was under the assumption that the peridots in question were salvaged from badly-oxidized specimens or were culled from peridots that fell out of the matrix. I didn't realize whole pallasites were being rendered down to extract the peridots. Best regards, MikeG On 2/21/11, Mike Miller meteoritefin...@gmail.com wrote: Just so we keep things straight the Admire meteorites are the ones being melted down for their peridot and also the strewn field where the landowner lives that was given big expectations about the returns of the meteorites found on his land. On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 8:30 AM, cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: Adam, One of the main problems is with trust. Speaking of trust. Is there a way to certify this material from Earth peridot? Wait until the eBay *posers* get word of this new Space Gem. Kaching, (sp)? Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: One of the main problems is with trust. This strewn field has been available for over 100 years and for all practical purposes now may be closed. It only takes one or two angry landowners to shut down the entire area to meteorite hunters. News of fraud, lawsuits and unpaid promised large sums of money, real or imagined spread like wildfire through these rural communities. The quicker this is resolved, the better. The hunting tradition in this area dates back to the Kimberly's, Nininger and Haag. It would be a shame to see it permanently off-limits now. Unfortunately, I witnessed the same thing with with the avocation of treasure hunting which still has not recovered after 25 years. Property owners used to grant permission freely to search but this is a rarity these days. Happy Hunting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mike Miller 3835 E Nicole Ave Kingman Az 86409 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-757-1378 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
Yes the entire meteorites are melted (chemically) and all is lost except for the olivine. On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Are these meteorites actually being melted down for their peridot? What happens to the rest of the meteorite? I was under the assumption that the peridots in question were salvaged from badly-oxidized specimens or were culled from peridots that fell out of the matrix. I didn't realize whole pallasites were being rendered down to extract the peridots. Best regards, MikeG On 2/21/11, Mike Miller meteoritefin...@gmail.com wrote: Just so we keep things straight the Admire meteorites are the ones being melted down for their peridot and also the strewn field where the landowner lives that was given big expectations about the returns of the meteorites found on his land. On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 8:30 AM, cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: Adam, One of the main problems is with trust. Speaking of trust. Is there a way to certify this material from Earth peridot? Wait until the eBay *posers* get word of this new Space Gem. Kaching, (sp)? Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: One of the main problems is with trust. This strewn field has been available for over 100 years and for all practical purposes now may be closed. It only takes one or two angry landowners to shut down the entire area to meteorite hunters. News of fraud, lawsuits and unpaid promised large sums of money, real or imagined spread like wildfire through these rural communities. The quicker this is resolved, the better. The hunting tradition in this area dates back to the Kimberly's, Nininger and Haag. It would be a shame to see it permanently off-limits now. Unfortunately, I witnessed the same thing with with the avocation of treasure hunting which still has not recovered after 25 years. Property owners used to grant permission freely to search but this is a rarity these days. Happy Hunting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mike Miller 3835 E Nicole Ave Kingman Az 86409 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-757-1378 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- -- Mike Miller 3835 E Nicole Ave Kingman Az 86409 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-757-1378 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
Dare I say it? I think this thread should read: Landowner's trials and tribulations in dealing with meteorite hunters Kinda stings a bit, but __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
If it's done chemically then it is called dissolving, not melting. Melting is done with heat and it would destroy the olivines. Olivine is used to create a slag when melting iron ore and forms a liquid layer on top of the melted iron. /Göran Mike Miller wrote: Yes the entire meteorites are melted (chemically) and all is lost except for the olivine. On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Are these meteorites actually being melted down for their peridot? What happens to the rest of the meteorite? I was under the assumption that the peridots in question were salvaged from badly-oxidized specimens or were culled from peridots that fell out of the matrix. I didn't realize whole pallasites were being rendered down to extract the peridots. Best regards, MikeG On 2/21/11, Mike Miller meteoritefin...@gmail.com wrote: Just so we keep things straight the Admire meteorites are the ones being melted down for their peridot and also the strewn field where the landowner lives that was given big expectations about the returns of the meteorites found on his land. On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 8:30 AM, cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: Adam, One of the main problems is with trust. Speaking of trust. Is there a way to certify this material from Earth peridot? Wait until the eBay *posers* get word of this new Space Gem. Kaching, (sp)? Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: One of the main problems is with trust. This strewn field has been available for over 100 years and for all practical purposes now may be closed. It only takes one or two angry landowners to shut down the entire area to meteorite hunters. News of fraud, lawsuits and unpaid promised large sums of money, real or imagined spread like wildfire through these rural communities. The quicker this is resolved, the better. The hunting tradition in this area dates back to the Kimberly's, Nininger and Haag. It would be a shame to see it permanently off-limits now. Unfortunately, I witnessed the same thing with with the avocation of treasure hunting which still has not recovered after 25 years. Property owners used to grant permission freely to search but this is a rarity these days. Happy Hunting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mike Miller 3835 E Nicole Ave Kingman Az 86409 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-757-1378 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
Hi Carl and List Members, It seems inevitable that future fraud will take place if the sale of this olivine were ever to take hold but I feel the market for such gemstones is very thin so trust and provenance will be everything . Gemologists are not yet trained on extraterrestrial gemstones because there is virtually no market for them. The diamond industry has spent billions developing a market. Diamonds have attributes like hardness and refractive qualities that lend themselves nicely to jewelry making although they are far from being rare. Try giving a woman space olivine in an engagement ring. The odds are you won't be getting married or be reduced to eating TV dinners the rest of your life. This is because excellent marketing over a long period of time has made diamonds king. Olivine doesn't stand a chance and it is ridiculous to try and position it in the price range of diamonds. Dissolving pallasites to get at the olivine seems like a bad idea to me but what do I know? I am certainly no expert on marketing jewelry. It would be difficult to say the least to market both meteorites and jewelry. It is like trying to be a Jack of all trades and an expert at none. I feel it would take too much effort and produce very little for the landowners which is my main issue. They have to be kept happy in order for future searches to take place. I do not want to be remembered as the generation that destroyed all of it. Best Regards, Adam - Original Message From: cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com Sent: Mon, February 21, 2011 7:30:25 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners Adam, One of the main problems is with trust. Speaking of trust. Is there a way to certify this material from Earth peridot? Wait until the eBay *posers* get word of this new Space Gem. Kaching, (sp)? Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: One of the main problems is with trust. This strewn field has been available for over 100 years and for all practical purposes now may be closed. It only takes one or two angry landowners to shut down the entire area to meteorite hunters. News of fraud, lawsuits and unpaid promised large sums of money, real or imagined spread like wildfire through these rural communities. The quicker this is resolved, the better. The hunting tradition in this area dates back to the Kimberly's, Nininger and Haag. It would be a shame to see it permanently off-limits now. Unfortunately, I witnessed the same thing with with the avocation of treasure hunting which still has not recovered after 25 years. Property owners used to grant permission freely to search but this is a rarity these days. Happy Hunting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
Hiya Jeff, Generally speaking, I'm also offended by the destruction of meteorites...period. But not because of the commercial gain motive, per se. Darryl is exactly right that every faction of the meteorite community has benefited from the recovery incentive. Mike's point that the Admire pallasite, and not Brenham, has been the object of this initiative is also important. While he and others have apparently made substantial improvements in the preservation of such rust buckets (I don't mean this to be a derogatory term...it is what it is), it's doubtful that the expenses associated with hunting this strewn field would have been a reasonable investment without a plan such as the commercial crystal faceting. To that end, one might argue that either the meteorites would still be in the ground or crystals would be commercially available...most likely, anyway. I'm one of the last members of the meteorite community that likes to see meteorites cut at all, but sometimes it does make sense -- for a lot of reasons. However, there are times when history has evidently been rewritten for commercial benefit, and this seems a much bigger shame than the mining of crystals from a highly unstable matrix. If a young girl were to find a freshly-fallen meteorite, hypothetically speaking, it would be nice to see her get proper credit and exposure for the same...rather than to see that wonderful version of the story swept under the rug in the name of commercial and/or self-promotion. There are defining moments when it comes to expanding the awareness of the meteorite arena to the general public (and to the next generation of potential meteoriticists), and hopefully the true magic of those moments will shine more and more often as time unfolds. Who knows? Maybe that shine will indeed come from Selena Gomez ;-) All best, Dave www.fallingrocks.com -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Grossman Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 7:42 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners Why don't we discuss the real issue with this thread? Is nobody else offended by the idea of destroying meteorites for commercial gain? I do realize that the scientific value of Brenham pallasites is extremely low. Many hundreds of kg are held by museums, so chances are that the destruction by dealers of a few hundred kg more to extract the olivine will not result in irreversible harm to science. But what if some cult placed a high value on ritually consuming Martian/lunar meteorites or angrites, or CAIs, and the price for powdered meteorites skyrocketed? Would it be ethical to destroy these meteorites for profit? And, are such practices harmful, in the long-run, to both science and the avocation of meteorite collecting? A large part of the tension between the scientific and collector communities, including the creation of much-reviled export and ownership laws in some countries, arises from the perception that national scientific treasures are being lost. This sort of practice by dealers could make the situation so much worse. Jeff On 2/21/2011 5:59 AM, JoshuaTreeMuseum wrote: The space gems need to be marketed to high profile fashionistas like Lady GaGa, Kendra, Paris Hilton and the Kardashians. With Kim and Khloe flashing those babies as they hobnob with the crowned heads of Europe, the demand will grow like wildfire. Soon every rock star and Hollywood actor will want one. Justin Beiber will pierce his nose to sport a space jewel! Elton John will have them set in a fancy-dancy pair of specs. Steve will be out of debt in no time. Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
List: I think this will put a “black eye” on meteorite hunters regardless of the turnout. I remember in West I talked to some landowners who let meteorite hunters on their property, and they told me that some of the hunters had stolen some of their finds and skipped out on paying, so they stopped allowing hunters back on their land. Because of the ‘Meteorite Men’ show, with its growing popularity, this could certainly have an impact on people watching in the future. I’ve always felt that the meteorite hunter’s number one oath is “treat the landowners very special, because the meteorites are THEIRS.” And one bad apple… well, we all know what that can do. As to the Meteoritic Peridot… I just don’t see the market; I guarantee that any rich celebrity with rather have an emerald instead. Also the ‘melting’ of Pallasites – it’s your meteorite and you can do what you want, you can make spheres, use the iron to make coins: does not really bother me. In fact I think it would be really cool to make a stained glass window out of a Pallasite… now that would be really cool. Remember... it's all in the marketing. Greg S. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
I think this represents more than just a black eye We may be the last generation that can hunt freely for them without sever repercussions. Hunters have already been jailed and it is just a matter of time before somebody is shot on private property figuring it is an easy way to riches. There is always a backlash associated with peoples actions. I don't think this was considered ahead of time by the few that are now impacting all us. I saw the video Dirk posted and was appalled by the look in that farmers eyes and the tone of his voice. I hope not too many people have seen this video because it is very discouraging. I have seen this disdain before in the eyes of landowners when treasure hunters failed to treat them with respect. It only takes a few holes left behind on somebody's property, a cattle gate left open or the failure to make good on a promise to ruin it for everybody else. This is a very sad development but I could see it coming with the popularization of meteorite hunting and the connection to treasure hunting. There used to be line between the two but now it has become blurred. Adam - Original Message From: Thunder Stone stanleygr...@hotmail.com To: almi...@localnet.com; cyna...@charter.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, February 21, 2011 10:11:34 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners List: I think this will put a “black eye” on meteorite hunters regardless of the turnout. I remember in West I talked to some landowners who let meteorite hunters on their property, and they told me that some of the hunters had stolen some of their finds and skipped out on paying, so they stopped allowing hunters back on their land. Because of the ‘Meteorite Men’ show, with its growing popularity, this could certainly have an impact on people watching in the future. I’ve always felt that the meteorite hunter’s number one oath is “treat the landowners very special, because the meteorites are THEIRS.” And one bad apple… well, we all know what that can do. As to the Meteoritic Peridot… I just don’t see the market; I guarantee that any rich celebrity with rather have an emerald instead. Also the ‘melting’ of Pallasites – it’s your meteorite and you can do what you want, you can make spheres, use the iron to make coins: does not really bother me. In fact I think it would be really cool to make a stained glass window out of a Pallasite… now that would be really cool. Remember... it's all in the marketing. Greg S. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
There are also long-term value issues: If you had $5000 to spend on a gem that would retain its value, would you buy a 1 ct diamond or a 1 ct space-gem? While the hard-core collector may say space-gem, everyone else in the world would say diamond. The diamond market is well established and if you had to resell or pawn a diamond, it would hold most of its value (normally around 60-80% unless you're desperate). Try taking a space-gem to a pawn shop, they'll look at you funny and give you $20; because to them and the rest of the world, peridot is peridot. I'm not knocking olivine space-gems, the problem is you need to establish the market and demand before you can attain the desired price. -Yinan On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 11:17 PM, Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com wrote: It's all in how you market it. With the big gemstones, they've been bought, sold, and used as a commodity for literally hundreds and probably thousands of years. Diamonds didn't get their current popularity/price until DeBeers started their major marketing campaigns. Just because something is rare doesn't mean its worth more than a diamond of similar size and quality: an object is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Here are some example of the rarest gemstones on earth: http://www.curiousnotions.com/gemstones/ They're all extremely rare but only have a specialty market, which is why most stay under $2000 per carat for the finest piece. Another example of rare gemstone is Bixbite from utah. It's a red beryl. Only 60 lbs of it have ever been mined (compared that to the ammount of pallasite out there), and they're very beautiful. The largest perfect gem of it ever cut weighs only about 3 cts. Still, most cut pieces are still only worth about $1000-$2000 per carat for anything under 1 ct. At the moment, space peridots are a specialty market. -Yinan On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 10:30 PM, Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net wrote: Hello All, When you start pulling a ton of Brenham out of the ground don't expect to find, or quickly make, a market for it. Once the relatively small group of meteorite collectors (I'll bet there isn't five hundred that would but a pallasite in the world) get their specimens you will still have a massive amount left. Might sound like a good idea to destroy the meteorite to smelt out the peridot, but most of it, although rare, is badly shocked, irregularly shaped and included. Cosmic peridot will never touch the appeal of the terrestial big four...diamond, ruby, emerald and sapphire. A high end market for gem quality peridot doesn't exist and it would take years to move what was cut and polished. And at a loss. Per esempio...It's my wife's birthstone (August) and I was able to purcase a near flawless, brilliant cut, Mexican example of nearly 20 carats for less than a thousand dollars mounted in 18kt gold. Steve has a tough row to hoe Regards to all, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 MetSoc -Original Message- From: Darren Garrison cyna...@charter.net Sent: Feb 20, 2011 7:23 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 22:00:28 -0500, you wrote: It is my understanding that they are considerably more rare than diamonds yet are priced well below the cost of an equivalent flawless diamond. http://www.arizona-peridot.com/Peridot_Prices.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
Yep - the landowners are going to cash up front if you want to hunt. Greg S. Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 10:43:28 -0800 From: raremeteori...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners I think this represents more than just a black eye We may be the last generation that can hunt freely for them without sever repercussions. Hunters have already been jailed and it is just a matter of time before somebody is shot on private property figuring it is an easy way to riches. There is always a backlash associated with peoples actions. I don't think this was considered ahead of time by the few that are now impacting all us. I saw the video Dirk posted and was appalled by the look in that farmers eyes and the tone of his voice. I hope not too many people have seen this video because it is very discouraging. I have seen this disdain before in the eyes of landowners when treasure hunters failed to treat them with respect. It only takes a few holes left behind on somebody's property, a cattle gate left open or the failure to make good on a promise to ruin it for everybody else. This is a very sad development but I could see it coming with the popularization of meteorite hunting and the connection to treasure hunting. There used to be line between the two but now it has become blurred. Adam - Original Message From: Thunder Stone To: almi...@localnet.com; cyna...@charter.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, February 21, 2011 10:11:34 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners List: I think this will put a “black eye” on meteorite hunters regardless of the turnout. I remember in West I talked to some landowners who let meteorite hunters on their property, and they told me that some of the hunters had stolen some of their finds and skipped out on paying, so they stopped allowing hunters back on their land. Because of the ‘Meteorite Men’ show, with its growing popularity, this could certainly have an impact on people watching in the future. I’ve always felt that the meteorite hunter’s number one oath is “treat the landowners very special, because the meteorites are THEIRS.” And one bad apple… well, we all know what that can do. As to the Meteoritic Peridot… I just don’t see the market; I guarantee that any rich celebrity with rather have an emerald instead. Also the ‘melting’ of Pallasites – it’s your meteorite and you can do what you want, you can make spheres, use the iron to make coins: does not really bother me. In fact I think it would be really cool to make a stained glass window out of a Pallasite… now that would be really cool. Remember... it's all in the marketing. Greg S. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
Hello Paul and Listers, This article you had posted is a great read. I would say the market can be tricky when it comes to selling those big pallasites found in Kansas. As for the article, the landowners chose the deal with Steve Arnold. They had the chance to keep some of the meteorite or have Steve sell it for them. As for how much the pallasites are worth, that depends on supply and demand and which market they are sold in. Because of the large amount that was recovered, I could say one could slice up large pieces and sell them to museums, big time collectors, and sell smaller ones on eBay. As for the peridot goes, gem collectors buy gems and meteorite collectors buy meteorites. The only way I could see the peridots selling for any great price is by catering to the high end gem market. But again, the high end gem market wants diamonds, rubes and emeralds. Not a gem stone from space that was found in Kansas on some meteorite hunting show, but from a meteorite collecting stand point, I feel that the pallasite slices would do well in the market from a meteorite stand point. But again the Brenham pallasite has gotten a bad name for its rusting properties, and that this meteorite is very common to collectors. I could see if Steve or other meteorite dealers preparing the slices in a more preservational way which could add a new way market this pallasite. A good example was the Brenham that was framed between glass and suspended in oil at the Tucson show this year. I think thats one way to market the Brenham meteorite and give it some new hope in the pallasite market. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with LandownersPaul H. oxytropidoceras at cox.net Sun Feb 20 13:47:35 EST 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Breja call for orders Next message: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Dealing with landowners can have their misunderstandings and rocky moments as discussed in Land deals, meteorites and money by Kim Wilhelm, KWCH 12 Eyewitness News, February 17, 2011 http://articles.kwch.com/2011-02-17/meteorite-hunting_28553456 Yours, Paul H. Previous message: [meteorite-list] Breja call for orders Next message: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
Hi Shawn and List, Almost any meteorite can be decontaminated, stabilized, and saved - even the worst rusters. It takes time, labor, and expertise. Even Brenham can be rendered into a very stable pallasite that will hold up over time just as good or better than any non-treated pallasite on the market. Brenham, when stabilized, is a great value. It's reputation as a ruster is unfair because the means exist to make almost any meteorite stable - and the meteorite will not be altered, oily, or coated. See this link for more details - http://patmulvanymeteorites.embarqspace.com/ Best regards, MikeG On 2/21/11, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello Paul and Listers, This article you had posted is a great read. I would say the market can be tricky when it comes to selling those big pallasites found in Kansas. As for the article, the landowners chose the deal with Steve Arnold. They had the chance to keep some of the meteorite or have Steve sell it for them. As for how much the pallasites are worth, that depends on supply and demand and which market they are sold in. Because of the large amount that was recovered, I could say one could slice up large pieces and sell them to museums, big time collectors, and sell smaller ones on eBay. As for the peridot goes, gem collectors buy gems and meteorite collectors buy meteorites. The only way I could see the peridots selling for any great price is by catering to the high end gem market. But again, the high end gem market wants diamonds, rubes and emeralds. Not a gem stone from space that was found in Kansas on some meteorite hunting show, but from a meteorite collecting stand point, I feel that the pallasite slices would do well in the market from a meteorite stand point. But again the Brenham pallasite has gotten a bad name for its rusting properties, and that this meteorite is very common to collectors. I could see if Steve or other meteorite dealers preparing the slices in a more preservational way which could add a new way market this pallasite. A good example was the Brenham that was framed between glass and suspended in oil at the Tucson show this year. I think thats one way to market the Brenham meteorite and give it some new hope in the pallasite market. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with LandownersPaul H. oxytropidoceras at cox.net Sun Feb 20 13:47:35 EST 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Breja call for orders Next message: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Dealing with landowners can have their misunderstandings and rocky moments as discussed in Land deals, meteorites and money by Kim Wilhelm, KWCH 12 Eyewitness News, February 17, 2011 http://articles.kwch.com/2011-02-17/meteorite-hunting_28553456 Yours, Paul H. Previous message: [meteorite-list] Breja call for orders Next message: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
Martin, Yes the good old days are to me still the good old days. The most I ever paid per gram of a meteorite was Kenna. $1 per/gm. Then Eagle 60 cents per/gram. And a bottle of fresh Hobrooks, 130 grams picked up right after they fell by a Holbrook resident in July of 1912. And at the Nininger suggested price of 50 cents per/gram I bought the whole bottle with the person's statement written on a piece of paper stating that she saw it fall. And a big piece of Happy Canyon achondrite for 60 cents per gram. Oh did I forget... I got a 130 gram completely crusted fresh Bruderhiem from Canada in 1973 for $30 including postage. But considering inflation of dollars from 1973 to today it would be maybe 20 times $30 so that would translate to about $600 in today's value. But then again, I can't imagine that my $30 actually had the purchasing power of $600 today. Accounting for inflation, even $30 was a heck of good price back in 1973. And it did not hurt me as much as paying out $600 would today. What would a complete 100% fusion crusted 130 gram Bruderhiem go for today? I know certainly more than $600 I made $100 per/week in '73 as a college student, so it represented about one third week's pay. There are no doubt as you and other have pointed out exceptions in today's pricing versus the good old days. But in my lifetime, after 1980 things that happened changed in prices. But not only prices, but LAWS, TOO! And it is the laws that will certainly put impact the meteorite market. Just like anything that the LAW gets involved in, if it becomes illegal or restricted... Expect the prices to rise. So that said for each generation there will always be the good old days. But then again... Who knows, there could be another downturn in the world's economy, and for for some of us the good old days will return. As for landowners... An agreement is an agreement. It would be nice if it was just a verbal handshake as it was for the most part in the good old days But now you have to have lawyers involved. Steve Schoner www.petroslides.com IMCA 4470 [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Lando wners Martin Altmann altmann at meteorite-martin.de Mon Feb 21 21:10:15 EST 2011 * Previous message: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners * Next message: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hi Mike, I changed my pills. And saw how stupid I am. (o.k. that isn't really new). We simply have to switch the perspective! 10 years ago, if a dealer sold 1 gram of Moon in a month and nothing else, than he had a good life, and when he did so 15 years ago, a very very good one. Or 10grams of a howardite per month, and his children were proud on their daddy. Today 10g Howardite bring you 100 lousy bucks and 1g Moon 1000$ without costs yet and before taxes. Nothing more to say about the good ol'times... ...and there STILL some curators exist who seriously state, that commercial trade and private hunting/collecting would cause damage to science and that especially in these very times they wouldn't be able to compete anymore because of the privateers making meteorites so unaffordable for them. Unbelievable - but you can read that everywhere. And that makes any discussion so difficult, because you'd have to start at zero, at the basics with them. (And I thought natural science would have to do something with exact figures and numbers :-) And I bet a Martian main mass, that after they have brought the find rates so down with their prohibition, that meteorites will cost then 10, 20, 30 times more than today, that they will then again pass the buck to the dealers/hunters/collectors making them responsible for the horrible prices. You'll see! Good Night! Martin Globe Life Insurance $1* Buys $50,000 Life Insurance. Adults or Children. No Medical Exam. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3341/4d6333beb7ba2400325st06duc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
Dealing with landowners can have their misunderstandings and rocky moments as discussed in Land deals, meteorites and money by Kim Wilhelm, KWCH 12 Eyewitness News, February 17, 2011 http://articles.kwch.com/2011-02-17/meteorite-hunting_28553456 Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
Wow, this is really bad, like a gunpowder keg going off. Money, meteorites and press, a volatile mixture. I hope this is resolved quickly. Happy Hunting, Adam - Original Message From: Paul H. oxytropidoce...@cox.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sun, February 20, 2011 10:47:35 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners Dealing with landowners can have their misunderstandings and rocky moments as discussed in Land deals, meteorites and money by Kim Wilhelm, KWCH 12 Eyewitness News, February 17, 2011 http://articles.kwch.com/2011-02-17/meteorite-hunting_28553456 Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
Paul, list, I heard all about this and more details at the Gem show. In Steve's defense. I think he is trying to find a market for these wonderful gem stones from space. The trouble is that he is not the only one who has these space gems. The truth is that these stones were available for purchase at the show from another dealer and they were considerably less expensive than the stated value in the article. So, there in lies the problem. IMHO, all involved are good people but, this economy is holding back the sales of these space gems. But, in this biz I have noticed that supply and demand often play a key roll. For Steve's sake and for that of this entire industry I do hope that these things sell quickly . It is my understanding that they are considerably more rare than diamonds yet are priced well below the cost of an equivalent flawless diamond. I agree with Adam. I too hope this is settled quickly and everybody lives long and prospers. Once again. The late great John Lennon once said possession is not nine-tenths of the law. It's nine-tenths of the problem. Best to all, Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Paul H. oxytropidoce...@cox.net wrote: Dealing with landowners can have their misunderstandings and rocky moments as discussed in Land deals, meteorites and money by Kim Wilhelm, KWCH 12 Eyewitness News, February 17, 2011 http://articles.kwch.com/2011-02-17/meteorite-hunting_28553456 Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
You ain't lived until you've stared down the receiving end of a shotgun held by a suspicious farmer. Once upon a time, I worked in Ontario for the then Department of Highways. I had to visit farmers all the time about government business. During my official duties I was accosted by very large dogs, the odd irate goose, one very pissed of swan, the odd mad bull and (my fondest memory) a very well armed member of the local motorcycle club, with an armory which would make today's Taliban envious. So good luck on ya, Chris Spratt (Via my iPhone) __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 22:00:28 -0500, you wrote: It is my understanding that they are considerably more rare than diamonds yet are priced well below the cost of an equivalent flawless diamond. http://www.arizona-peridot.com/Peridot_Prices.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
One of the main problems is with trust. This strewn field has been available for over 100 years and for all practical purposes now may be closed. It only takes one or two angry landowners to shut down the entire area to meteorite hunters. News of fraud, lawsuits and unpaid promised large sums of money, real or imagined spread like wildfire through these rural communities. The quicker this is resolved, the better. The hunting tradition in this area dates back to the Kimberly's, Nininger and Haag. It would be a shame to see it permanently off-limits now. Unfortunately, I witnessed the same thing with with the avocation of treasure hunting which still has not recovered after 25 years. Property owners used to grant permission freely to search but this is a rarity these days. Happy Hunting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
Hello All, When you start pulling a ton of Brenham out of the ground don't expect to find, or quickly make, a market for it. Once the relatively small group of meteorite collectors (I'll bet there isn't five hundred that would but a pallasite in the world) get their specimens you will still have a massive amount left. Might sound like a good idea to destroy the meteorite to smelt out the peridot, but most of it, although rare, is badly shocked, irregularly shaped and included. Cosmic peridot will never touch the appeal of the terrestial big four...diamond, ruby, emerald and sapphire. A high end market for gem quality peridot doesn't exist and it would take years to move what was cut and polished. And at a loss. Per esempio...It's my wife's birthstone (August) and I was able to purcase a near flawless, brilliant cut, Mexican example of nearly 20 carats for less than a thousand dollars mounted in 18kt gold. Steve has a tough row to hoe Regards to all, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 MetSoc -Original Message- From: Darren Garrison cyna...@charter.net Sent: Feb 20, 2011 7:23 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 22:00:28 -0500, you wrote: It is my understanding that they are considerably more rare than diamonds yet are priced well below the cost of an equivalent flawless diamond. http://www.arizona-peridot.com/Peridot_Prices.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
It's all in how you market it. With the big gemstones, they've been bought, sold, and used as a commodity for literally hundreds and probably thousands of years. Diamonds didn't get their current popularity/price until DeBeers started their major marketing campaigns. Just because something is rare doesn't mean its worth more than a diamond of similar size and quality: an object is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Here are some example of the rarest gemstones on earth: http://www.curiousnotions.com/gemstones/ They're all extremely rare but only have a specialty market, which is why most stay under $2000 per carat for the finest piece. Another example of rare gemstone is Bixbite from utah. It's a red beryl. Only 60 lbs of it have ever been mined (compared that to the ammount of pallasite out there), and they're very beautiful. The largest perfect gem of it ever cut weighs only about 3 cts. Still, most cut pieces are still only worth about $1000-$2000 per carat for anything under 1 ct. At the moment, space peridots are a specialty market. -Yinan On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 10:30 PM, Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net wrote: Hello All, When you start pulling a ton of Brenham out of the ground don't expect to find, or quickly make, a market for it. Once the relatively small group of meteorite collectors (I'll bet there isn't five hundred that would but a pallasite in the world) get their specimens you will still have a massive amount left. Might sound like a good idea to destroy the meteorite to smelt out the peridot, but most of it, although rare, is badly shocked, irregularly shaped and included. Cosmic peridot will never touch the appeal of the terrestial big four...diamond, ruby, emerald and sapphire. A high end market for gem quality peridot doesn't exist and it would take years to move what was cut and polished. And at a loss. Per esempio...It's my wife's birthstone (August) and I was able to purcase a near flawless, brilliant cut, Mexican example of nearly 20 carats for less than a thousand dollars mounted in 18kt gold. Steve has a tough row to hoe Regards to all, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 MetSoc -Original Message- From: Darren Garrison cyna...@charter.net Sent: Feb 20, 2011 7:23 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 22:00:28 -0500, you wrote: It is my understanding that they are considerably more rare than diamonds yet are priced well below the cost of an equivalent flawless diamond. http://www.arizona-peridot.com/Peridot_Prices.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners
I'll bet Bob Haag has the skinny on marketing cosmic periodot. He's been there and done that. And I will up my estimate of Brenham buyers to maybe 2000 world wide if you include the less than 30 grammers. But four figure peridot as jewelry500 max. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com Sent: Feb 20, 2011 9:17 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners It's all in how you market it. With the big gemstones, they've been bought, sold, and used as a commodity for literally hundreds and probably thousands of years. Diamonds didn't get their current popularity/price until DeBeers started their major marketing campaigns. Just because something is rare doesn't mean its worth more than a diamond of similar size and quality: an object is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Here are some example of the rarest gemstones on earth: http://www.curiousnotions.com/gemstones/ They're all extremely rare but only have a specialty market, which is why most stay under $2000 per carat for the finest piece. Another example of rare gemstone is Bixbite from utah. It's a red beryl. Only 60 lbs of it have ever been mined (compared that to the ammount of pallasite out there), and they're very beautiful. The largest perfect gem of it ever cut weighs only about 3 cts. Still, most cut pieces are still only worth about $1000-$2000 per carat for anything under 1 ct. At the moment, space peridots are a specialty market. -Yinan On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 10:30 PM, Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net wrote: Hello All, When you start pulling a ton of Brenham out of the ground don't expect to find, or quickly make, a market for it. Once the relatively small group of meteorite collectors (I'll bet there isn't five hundred that would but a pallasite in the world) get their specimens you will still have a massive amount left. Might sound like a good idea to destroy the meteorite to smelt out the peridot, but most of it, although rare, is badly shocked, irregularly shaped and included. Cosmic peridot will never touch the appeal of the terrestial big four...diamond, ruby, emerald and sapphire. A high end market for gem quality peridot doesn't exist and it would take years to move what was cut and polished. And at a loss. Per esempio...It's my wife's birthstone (August) and I was able to purcase a near flawless, brilliant cut, Mexican example of nearly 20 carats for less than a thousand dollars mounted in 18kt gold. Steve has a tough row to hoe Regards to all, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 MetSoc -Original Message- From: Darren Garrison cyna...@charter.net Sent: Feb 20, 2011 7:23 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Trials and Tribulations in Dealing with Landowners On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 22:00:28 -0500, you wrote: It is my understanding that they are considerably more rare than diamonds yet are priced well below the cost of an equivalent flawless diamond. http://www.arizona-peridot.com/Peridot_Prices.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
