Re: EXCS Comments, In-Reply-To, and References not working
[Sorry for the late reply. The message was sent while I was busy moving, but I think it is still worth a response.] On January 16, 1999 at 12:28, Al Gilman wrote: Like you, I fail to find $TO$ in the index of variables. ... We will have to hear from Earl for a definitive answer, but it sure sounds like for exactly what you want to do, someone has to patch MHonArc to generate the $TO$. Correct. Since "To:" seemed to of little need in mailing lists, it was not included in the "key" fields to remember. Also, the "To:" can contain many receipients, making the flat-file db unnecessarily large for questionable gain. Harald Alvestrand once opined that Web archivers for Mail or News are "the wrong architecture." He felt that a superior architecture would be one where if you want to read the message you get a verbatim message/rfc822 copy and read it in your mail (or news) tool. This depends on the intent on the archive. The big plus that web archivers give is navigational aides. Ie. The navigational links given on each message page cannot be display with raw message/rfc822 data. Also, if using an extensible archiver, admins can control how much of the original message should be displayed. I.e. They have the ability to do some automated editorial control to follow whatever guidelines they want to impose on the archive data. Examples: o Stripping JavaScript from HTML messages to avoid security holes. o Drop attachments to save space (and may not appropriate, for the mailing list in question). Has anyone built a service where the index is a web page but the message is verbatim? Unfortunately this requires users to know how to install viewers in their browser, but it would be interesting to know what has been tried and how well it works. Netscape supports the message/rfc822 type and will render it directly in the browser. If you shut-off the MSGPGS resource in MHonArc, and redefine index related resources to use links that will retrieve the original message, you can get something you have mentioned. MHonArc is then only used to provide the main navigational indexes. This scheme will probably be more suited for a frames based navigation where the index is one frame, and any link activated will show the message is a separate frame. --ewh Earl Hood | University of California: Irvine [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Electronic Loiterer http://www.oac.uci.edu/indiv/ehood/ | Dabbler of SGML/WWW/Perl/MIME
Re: EXCS Comments, In-Reply-To, and References not working
At 05:48 PM 1/16/99 +, Frank J. Perricone wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- On Sat, 16 Jan 1999 12:28:37 -0500, Al Gilman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I defined a "variable" in the RC file which was the list posting address and used that wherever I wanted to create a mailto: which sent mail to [or a copy to] the list. The information as to whether the list was in To: or Cc: as posted, or who the message was To: if not to the list, was not something I preserved. That's not going to work for me because I have three related listservs (one group-wide and two for sub-teams) that all go into the same archive, and I need to know which message went to which listserv. I think you can do it with resources, then and not have to hack the Perl. All you have to do is use a different RC file per listserv and define variables in each RC file appropriate to that list. Use these variables in the message page formatting, not in the index page formatting and you may find it works. At the point where you are accepting a message and launching MHonArc to archive it use a filter rule to detect which listserv it came through (or if you are calling MHonArc from the listserv it will know) and apply a slightly variant RC file as appropriate. Al
Re: EXCS Comments, In-Reply-To, and References not working
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- On Sat, 16 Jan 1999 12:28:37 -0500, Al Gilman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've temporarily given up on other approaches and am trying this, but the pages for SUBJECTHEADER et. al. list various date, from, and subject fields, but no To field (or CC for that matter). The same for the main resource variable page. I'd guess $TO$, but it's not in the docs or the mailing list archive anywhere I can find. Are you sure that it's in there? Like you, I fail to find $TO$ in the index of variables. I defined a "variable" in the RC file which was the list posting address and used that wherever I wanted to create a mailto: which sent mail to [or a copy to] the list. The information as to whether the list was in To: or Cc: as posted, or who the message was To: if not to the list, was not something I preserved. That's not going to work for me because I have three related listservs (one group-wide and two for sub-teams) that all go into the same archive, and I need to know which message went to which listserv. :( I confess that the omission of $TO$ and $CC$ seems conspicuous given how many flavors of $FROM$, $SUBJECT$, and $DATE$ there are. On the other hand, give someone $TO$ and someone else will ask for $RECEIVED$ and $ORGANIZATION$ and all the X-.* fields, and things get out of hand quickly. I wouldn't mind the omission of $TO$ if I could get EXCS/FIELDORDER to work. Odd that both of them don't work for me -- it seems I'm missing something fundamental. Harald Alvestrand once opined that Web archivers for Mail or News are "the wrong architecture." He felt that a superior architecture would be one where if you want to read the message you get a verbatim message/rfc822 copy and read it in your mail (or news) tool. Overall I tend to agree. Unfortunately, if there's a mechanism by which everyone can read a single store of messages kept in one location using their own mail/news software, I don't know what it is. So it's either use the web, with all its unnecessary (to the task) overhead, or have everyone keep their own personal archives (and assume they all have space for them) and then hope they all stay in synch. (Or something else like an FTP server of RFC822 text files, a database you have to telnet into, etc.) At least the HTML approach provides hyperlinks and navigation within the message page. Using a web page which linked to messages that would somehow pop up within your RFC822 mail/news client doesn't seem feasible unless your audience is very tech-savvy, and frankly, I'm lucky to get some of mine to know how to change a Subject line when replying. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: public key: finger [EMAIL PROTECTED], or on my web page iQB1AwUBNqDQ4cyfEemBueK1AQHqRQL9Gv4uHwi4TQaabLCOMdaOJ0GeCzqVJspg ik+LYFjz8+ZMSEtGDPzrdoUuvHfeauqVBYo2MTagtPClnRsNNAw1nINnR7p3Er9/ cqNy0lJiorAQ+sT9GavYAGPCExfXjH7P =Ffm7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- * Frank J. Perricone * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://www.sover.net/~hawthorn Just because we aren't all the same doesn't mean we have nothing in common Just because we have something in common doesn't mean we're all the same
Re: EXCS Comments, In-Reply-To, and References not working
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- On Sat, 16 Jan 1999 19:34:58 -0500, Al Gilman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's not going to work for me because I have three related listservs (one group-wide and two for sub-teams) that all go into the same archive, and I need to know which message went to which listserv. I think you can do it with resources, then and not have to hack the Perl. All you have to do is use a different RC file per listserv and define variables in each RC file appropriate to that list. Use these variables in the message page formatting, not in the index page formatting and you may find it works. At the point where you are accepting a message and launching MHonArc to archive it use a filter rule to detect which listserv it came through (or if you are calling MHonArc from the listserv it will know) and apply a slightly variant RC file as appropriate. Since I'm not running MHonArc myself, but instead prevailing upon a much-harried, generous man with a justifiable limit to his patience and how much of his system he'll allow me to burden, I think if it comes to that I'll just go back to EXCS and allow a few extra fields to show up until someone can tell me how to get them to really go away. It's a good thought, though. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: public key: finger [EMAIL PROTECTED], or on my web page iQB1AwUBNqEyYMyfEemBueK1AQHqkAMAmCgYERy8l4195kVQBSMChbj9Du9z/el/ gvdHG8nYAbpnWdfNUntnskhOnHp2tCKMMzfMzTUTQ0cywlgcrNXD3I89Kx5YiEE4 jrdGB3lvVv+of2PHCe7XMvpR1q9G8iDt =hE4V -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- * Frank J. Perricone * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://www.sover.net/~hawthorn Just because we aren't all the same doesn't mean we have nothing in common Just because we have something in common doesn't mean we're all the same
Re: EXCS Comments, In-Reply-To, and References not working
On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:11:29 -0500, Al Gilman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I suggest you try harder digging out the positive approach. It's in there. Check out the various predefined resource variables. You can get From, To, Subject and Date values and format your own presentation. Just kill all the predefined formatting with excs * and roll your own. That's the workaround I have in mind if I can't actually fix the problem. (Semantics, but when I was referring to a positive approach, I meant by comparison to EXCS, not the fact that I can reject the entire thing and then build something else that looks the same.) At 06:36 PM 1/14/99 +, Frank J. Perricone wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- My MHonArc archive for my Crossword PBEM RPG is almost set up to my (for now) satisfaction, and can be previewed (with lots of very old messages) at http://www.pennmush.org/~server/crossword/. It's an unusual situation in that someone else (a former player of the game) is providing the server space that runs MHonArc and a web server for me, so I'm doing my work remotely -- writing an rcfile and then emailing it to him. Makes debugging slow work since I can't drive the poor fellow mad with constant updates. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong with my EXCS block. Ideally I'd like to get rid of everything but From, To, Subject, and Date. But since EXCS seems to be a negative approach, and I can't find a positive approach, I have to find every field that might appear and exclude it. This is what I have: EXCS override apparently comments content errors-to followup forward in-reply-to lines message-id mime- nntp- originator organization path precedence received references replied return-path status via x- /EXCS The in-reply-to, references, and comments fields just will not go away, though. I've tried shorter versions, with and without a space afterwards, and with and without uppercase, though I don't understand why it wouldn't just simply work. It seems simple enough. I searched the archives and found one other person asked the same question about the in-reply-to and references field, another person just say "works for me", and the thread ended there. (At least that part of it.) Can't find any reference to this in the docs, FAQ, or anywhere else. Any ideas? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: public key: finger [EMAIL PROTECTED], or on my web page iQB1AwUBNp45HMyfEemBueK1AQHxsgL+MGnQeq/emqA/PRmgKGTj14wqP284MOw3 mOUdHh5GNByWMxjSwkuGz2ZC0mdbL4kpsmGGtOgJoJdjawJslSGqOqN6MSKAi7MY y5EJykfjivkWstdrK9WBxftsOjX/ImUZ =b9pY -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- * Frank J. Perricone * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://www.sover.net/~hawthorn Just because we aren't all the same doesn't mean we have nothing in common Just because we have something in common doesn't mean we're all the same -- * Frank J. Perricone * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://www.sover.net/~hawthorn Just because we aren't all the same doesn't mean we have nothing in common Just because we have something in common doesn't mean we're all the same
Re: EXCS Comments, In-Reply-To, and References not working
I suggest you try harder digging out the positive approach. It's in there. Check out the various predefined resource variables. You can get From, To, Subject and Date values and format your own presentation. Just kill all the predefined formatting with excs * and roll your own. Al At 06:36 PM 1/14/99 +, Frank J. Perricone wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- My MHonArc archive for my Crossword PBEM RPG is almost set up to my (for now) satisfaction, and can be previewed (with lots of very old messages) at http://www.pennmush.org/~server/crossword/. It's an unusual situation in that someone else (a former player of the game) is providing the server space that runs MHonArc and a web server for me, so I'm doing my work remotely -- writing an rcfile and then emailing it to him. Makes debugging slow work since I can't drive the poor fellow mad with constant updates. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong with my EXCS block. Ideally I'd like to get rid of everything but From, To, Subject, and Date. But since EXCS seems to be a negative approach, and I can't find a positive approach, I have to find every field that might appear and exclude it. This is what I have: EXCS override apparently comments content errors-to followup forward in-reply-to lines message-id mime- nntp- originator organization path precedence received references replied return-path status via x- /EXCS The in-reply-to, references, and comments fields just will not go away, though. I've tried shorter versions, with and without a space afterwards, and with and without uppercase, though I don't understand why it wouldn't just simply work. It seems simple enough. I searched the archives and found one other person asked the same question about the in-reply-to and references field, another person just say "works for me", and the thread ended there. (At least that part of it.) Can't find any reference to this in the docs, FAQ, or anywhere else. Any ideas? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: public key: finger [EMAIL PROTECTED], or on my web page iQB1AwUBNp45HMyfEemBueK1AQHxsgL+MGnQeq/emqA/PRmgKGTj14wqP284MOw3 mOUdHh5GNByWMxjSwkuGz2ZC0mdbL4kpsmGGtOgJoJdjawJslSGqOqN6MSKAi7MY y5EJykfjivkWstdrK9WBxftsOjX/ImUZ =b9pY -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- * Frank J. Perricone * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://www.sover.net/~hawthorn Just because we aren't all the same doesn't mean we have nothing in common Just because we have something in common doesn't mean we're all the same
