Re: [uf-discuss] Apple Data Detectors
But much of these bad things can be aleviated by one of the other suggestions in this thread: As-you-type validation. As soon as you type in Feb for instance, autocomplete style routines kick into action, helping the author write the date in exactly the right format. Then as they hit publish it becomes a microformat, proper, with markup and all. certainly ... and such things can be good for forms on websites ... but I was trying get some useful data out of a whole lot of press releases people send me. (stuff that is normally just ignored because there is nobody with the spare time to re-enter it manually!) --- if only event promoters would mark up those html emails with hCalendar! (and hCard/geo for venues/locations/cities/countries) :-) ...but of course we are unlikely to see much of that until the email and word processing software they are actually using has tools for adding such markup to their emails. ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] haudio contributor
Andy Mabbett wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Robert O'Rourke [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes How about removing the 'contributor' class from the key creator's vcard? It would make sense to me to group contributors separately to the creator. The vcard attached to the hAudio would denote the original creator. That would still not distinguish between creator as performer (Elvis Presley); as composer (Mozart); or as both (Bob Dylan). Ah yes, so would you say 'performer', 'creator' and 'composer' are roles and not different to being a contributor? It would be useful to have a more blanket term for instances where one person has multiple roles of that kind. I know you had a problem with it but if the role 'artist' is vague in so far as 'performer', 'composer' etc.. are concerned then perhaps it would be useful for exactly that reason. What do you think? ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] haudio contributor
Martin McEvoy wrote: Hello Robert Hi Martin, nice meeting you the other day On Tue, 2008-02-05 at 18:39 +, Robert O'Rourke wrote: For cover tracks you'd have something like: span class=contributor vcard span class=roleOriginal Artist/span - span class=fn orgPrimal Scream/span /span Here is the best action I have seen using roles, It may be useful to the discussion. from http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-examples-in-wild-reviewed http://www.iowamilitaryveteransband.com/members/ their roles are the instruments that they play Roles are *NOT* defined in hAudio as such other than.. The role attribute SHOULD be used to specify the contributor's responsibility related to the audio recording if hCard is utilized http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio#Contributor the context comes from hcard Information regarding the role of the object http://microformats.org/wiki/existing-classes the object in most cases the person. whats good is, its user defined, we may be able to give sensible hints to what you put in there but really it's up to the publisher the choice is yours eg: groupie, or stage hand could be fun!. original artist, band, group, quartet are valid roles I would say so are vocalist, bassist, drummer, producer, artist for individuals If we had a hPunchup microformat you could have a role of looser ;) Ha! and a vevent for every punch. Never thought of marking up a boxing match until now! I AM worried that we should be using title instead of role in some cases... That depends if you look at a piece of music as having jobs associated with it. Is a piece of music some work that people were employed to create or only a creative endeavour?. It can be either, but as far as hAudio is concerned I would say role is most appropriate. Thoughts? Thanks Martin McEvoy Cheers, Rob ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] haudio contributor
On Wed, 2008-02-06 at 12:29 +, Robert O'Rourke wrote: Martin McEvoy wrote: Hello Robert Hi Martin, nice meeting you the other day Well met too its surprising the places that you meet people ;) On Tue, 2008-02-05 at 18:39 +, Robert O'Rourke wrote: For cover tracks you'd have something like: span class=contributor vcard span class=roleOriginal Artist/span - span class=fn orgPrimal Scream/span /span Here is the best action I have seen using roles, It may be useful to the discussion. from http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-examples-in-wild-reviewed http://www.iowamilitaryveteransband.com/members/ their roles are the instruments that they play Roles are *NOT* defined in hAudio as such other than.. The role attribute SHOULD be used to specify the contributor's responsibility related to the audio recording if hCard is utilized http://microformats.org/wiki/haudio#Contributor the context comes from hcard Information regarding the role of the object http://microformats.org/wiki/existing-classes the object in most cases the person. whats good is, its user defined, we may be able to give sensible hints to what you put in there but really it's up to the publisher the choice is yours eg: groupie, or stage hand could be fun!. original artist, band, group, quartet are valid roles I would say so are vocalist, bassist, drummer, producer, artist for individuals If we had a hPunchup microformat you could have a role of looser ;) Ha! and a vevent for every punch. Never thought of marking up a boxing match until now! It could be reused in hArgument? ...chuckle I AM worried that we should be using title instead of role in some cases... That depends if you look at a piece of music as having jobs associated with it. Is a piece of music some work that people were employed to create or only a creative endeavour?. In the case of manufactured bands I would say that all involved are employed and have Job Titles... as do professional musicians maybe. It can be either, but as far as hAudio is concerned I would say role is most appropriate. Thoughts? I agree Roles are more important than their job titles as the two may not be related or have any context in the making of a piece of audio. I think the problem with the above is quite often in audio roles and job titles are quite often the same.. Manu explained the differences quite nicley to me.. A role is what you do, where a title is what your official title is at the organization. Role is hardly ever used in hcard in the real world,and as a result not much info, I think maybe more information about role can be added to the hAudio wiki, perhaps even some good recommendations? Thanks Martin McEvoy Thanks Martin McEvoy Cheers, Rob ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] haudio contributor
Martin McEvoy wrote: On Wed, 2008-02-06 at 12:29 +, Robert O'Rourke wrote: Martin McEvoy wrote: I AM worried that we should be using title instead of role in some cases... That depends if you look at a piece of music as having jobs associated with it. Is a piece of music some work that people were employed to create or only a creative endeavour?. In the case of manufactured bands I would say that all involved are employed and have Job Titles... as do professional musicians maybe. It can be either, but as far as hAudio is concerned I would say role is most appropriate. Thoughts? I agree Roles are more important than their job titles as the two may not be related or have any context in the making of a piece of audio. I think the problem with the above is quite often in audio roles and job titles are quite often the same.. Manu explained the differences quite nicley to me.. A role is what you do, where a title is what your official title is at the organization. In that case in relation to hAudio role is defnitely more appropriate. Each individual's title is an arbritary thing - say when two people who fulfil the same roles at two different organisations have different titles. Everyone involved with a recording had a role to play but not necessarily an official title. As a side note, is title only really used if org has been indicated? And are groups/bands considered to be an organisation? Solo artists wouldn't have any particular org except maybe the record label, in which case their title would be Artist. A musician with no record label or contract has no employer and therefore no official title so the use of role would be better suited to the majority of cases. Role is hardly ever used in hcard in the real world,and as a result not much info, I think maybe more information about role can be added to the hAudio wiki, perhaps even some good recommendations? That would be good to see, there isn't a whole lot of detail about the use of role in hcard on the wiki. Thanks Martin McEvoy ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Re: Possible alternative methods for include
Ryan King wrote: Toby A Inkster wrote: It does claim that it's a set of class names, and in mathematical parlance sets are unordered by definition, and must not contain duplicates, but it's unlikely that the framers of the HTML 4.01 spec intended the world set to be interpreted in that way -- far more likely they were referring to the layman's definition of the word. Specs aren't generally written in layman's terms. What I meant was that the vast majority of the words used in most specifications are not explicitly defined, nor are other normative references provided giving a definition of them. This is fair enough. You don't want to read through an enormous glossary at the end of a specification defining words such as first, down and the. When a word is not explicitly defined in the specification itself, or in a reference, one should assume that the normal everyday meaning of the word is implied. I seem to remember reading somewhere that of all the entries in the Oxford English Dictionary, the word set has the longest, spanning several pages. In the context used in the HTML 4.01 spec, I find it unlikely that they were specifically referring to the mathematical usage of the word set, unless they were attempting to be deliberately obscure. -- Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS [Geek of HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python/Apache/Linux] [OS: Linux 2.6.17.14-mm-desktop-9mdvsmp, up 7 days, 21:25.] Looking Ahead to Perl 6 http://tobyinkster.co.uk/blog/2008/02/05/perl6/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Re: Possible alternative methods for include
Paul Wilkins wrote: If the ordering of class names were supposed to to have some special significance, there would be further information about such a specific order. In this case a lack of evidence points to no importance in the order of the class names. If the ordering of paragraphs were supposed to have some special significance, there would be further information about such a specific order. In this case a lack of evidence points to no importance in the order of paragraphs. Thus the following HTML documents may be rendered identically by a conforming browser, right? titleDocument one/title pone/p ptwo/p titleDocument two/title ptwo/p pone/p The order of the paragraphs doesn't have a special significance, yet the paragraphs do have an inherent order. Similarly, the order of class names within a class attribute don't have a special significance attached to them by the HTML spec, but they do still have an inherent order. -- Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS [Geek of HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python/Apache/Linux] [OS: Linux 2.6.17.14-mm-desktop-9mdvsmp, up 7 days, 21:47.] Looking Ahead to Perl 6 http://tobyinkster.co.uk/blog/2008/02/05/perl6/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] haudio contributor
Robert O'Rourke wrote: Ah yes, so would you say 'performer', 'creator' and 'composer' are roles and not different to being a contributor? Yes, that is why 'contributor' was picked, rather than 'performer', 'creator', or 'composer'. :) It would be useful to have a more blanket term for instances where one person has multiple roles of that kind. You can always specify multiple 'role's in hCard to state that the person had more than one role. I know you had a problem with it but if the role 'artist' is vague in so far as 'performer', 'composer' etc.. are concerned then perhaps it would be useful for exactly that reason. What do you think? I've got no problem adding more contributor types as convenience classes for composer, performer, publisher, label, etc. However, like all things Microformats - they've got to be backed up by examples. The issue isn't wouldn't these be really cool to have, but rather we need to demonstrate that there are enough of these on the web to justify adding more terms to hAudio. -- manu ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] haudio contributor
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Martin McEvoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Role is hardly ever used in hcard in the real world I use it. In fact: http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/bardsey/ might include the first ever hCard with a role of Lighthouse keeper! -- Andy Mabbett ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] haudio contributor
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Manu Sporny [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes It would be useful to have a more blanket term for instances where one person has multiple roles of that kind. You can always specify multiple 'role's in hCard to state that the person had more than one role. One cannot always specify such things, because the page content (e.g. Beethoven's Fifth) does not always spell out such terms. I know you had a problem with it but if the role 'artist' is vague in so far as 'performer', 'composer' etc.. are concerned then perhaps it would be useful for exactly that reason. What do you think? I've got no problem adding more contributor types as convenience classes for composer, performer, publisher, label, etc. However, like all things Microformats - they've got to be backed up by examples. The issue isn't wouldn't these be really cool to have, but rather we need to demonstrate that there are enough of these on the web to justify adding more terms to hAudio. Like I said a day or two ago: for the guidance of wise men and... -- Andy Mabbett ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] haudio contributor
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Robert O'Rourke [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes And are groups/bands considered to be an organisation? Yes: foo class=fn orgPink Floyd/foo not least because the alternative: foo class=fnPink Floyd/foo would be optimised (sic) to have a given name of Pink and a family name of Floyd. -- Andy Mabbett ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] haudio contributor
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Robert O'Rourke [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes would you say 'performer', 'creator' and 'composer' are roles and not different to being a contributor? They are all contributors, but they are sub-sets of the set of contributors (and hence are more granular). It would be useful to have a more blanket term for instances where one person has multiple roles of that kind. Why would it? How is: foo class=contributorBob Dylan/foo more useful than: foo class=composer performerBob Dylan/foo The only time I can see the former class name being more useful is where the finer granularity is unknown or unavailable. -- Andy Mabbett ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Re: Possible alternative methods for include
On Feb 7, 2008 4:36 AM, Toby A Inkster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The order of the paragraphs doesn't have a special significance, yet the paragraphs do have an inherent order. Similarly, the order of class names within a class attribute don't have a special significance attached to them by the HTML spec, but they do still have an inherent order. There is an inherent order, but that order can not be relied upon to convey any useful information. -- Paul Wilkins ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] haudio contributor
Andy Mabbett wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Manu Sporny [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes It would be useful to have a more blanket term for instances where one person has multiple roles of that kind. You can always specify multiple 'role's in hCard to state that the person had more than one role. One cannot always specify such things, because the page content (e.g. Beethoven's Fifth) does not always spell out such terms. Right, point taken. I know you had a problem with it but if the role 'artist' is vague in so far as 'performer', 'composer' etc.. are concerned then perhaps it would be useful for exactly that reason. What do you think? I've got no problem adding more contributor types as convenience classes for composer, performer, publisher, label, etc. However, like all things Microformats - they've got to be backed up by examples. The issue isn't wouldn't these be really cool to have, but rather we need to demonstrate that there are enough of these on the web to justify adding more terms to hAudio. Like I said a day or two ago: for the guidance of wise men and... Alright, wise-guy =P - put the terms that you would like included on the haudio-issues wiki and let's start tracking them. -- manu ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] haudio contributor
Andy Mabbett wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Robert O'Rourke [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes And are groups/bands considered to be an organisation? Yes: foo class=fn orgPink Floyd/foo not least because the alternative: foo class=fnPink Floyd/foo would be optimised (sic) to have a given name of Pink and a family name of Floyd. I don't disagree that groups/bands should be considered organisations. That said, I don't think the reason offered here is a strong one. The issue described is directly related to FN's (over?)reuse beyond its original vCard scope of person names, to cover any name. [Not only has this led to the fn/title debate, but it seems some implementors are confused between following the vCard semantics (FN only for person names) or the hCard ones (FN for any name). See. http://cinematreasures.org/theater/365/, which uses an empty FN, resulting in their vCard not being detected by Operator, only the address] Guillaume ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Auto Discovery of XFN
I have a homepage that I use as my OpenId URL. I have the url of my homepage delegated to a OpenId provider. In the header of that homepage I have setup some auto discovery links in html. I believe this aids in the discovery of my information. I really do want a portable social network but I hope to bypass the need to scrape my information off of a social web site by providing a link as to where the information I want to provide is already. For example, For purely humorous and historical purposes I have the link below. meta name=ICBM content=39.518869, -104.757254 / The link below I use for auto discovery of my foaf file. link rel=media type=application/rdf+xml title=FOAF href=http://example.com/foaf.xml; / I know this link works as the Semantic Radar add on in Foxfire finds foaf files all over the net for me. The link below I use for auto discovery of my avatar/pavatar. link rel=pavatar type=image/jpg href=http://example.com/images/771518_1aa9fe4be6_s.jpg; link rel=avatar type=image/jpg href=http://example.com/images/771518_1aa9fe4be6_s.jpg; The link below is the link I use for my vCard/hCard. link rel=media type=text/directory title=vCard href=http://example.com/vcard.html; / I am only guessing but I am pretty sure that the link about is correct one. I also have a page on my website with my xfn links but I am unable to figure out the correct information for the auto discovery of it. link rel=media type=?/xfn title=XFN href=http://example.com/xfn.html; / Can someone please enlighten me as to the correct values for this type link above? Sincerely yours, mark ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
