Re: [uf-discuss] Unjust banning of Andy Mabbett
+1 -- Sincerely, Jeff McNeill http://jeffmcneill.com/ On 3/8/08, Manu Sporny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just got back from vacation, otherwise this would have gone out sooner. It has come to my attention that Andy Mabbett has been banned by the admins for 18 months[1]. This is an unjust punishment, especially considering that he is one of the largest contributors to our community. Rather than make sweeping assertions and accusations, I'm going to back this post up with hard data. Here are the statements that will be addressed: ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Some questions about Microformats implementation
Hello Bruno, I don't know the MSN syntax, but for other links, you can do things like this: a class=url href=http://jeffmcneill.com/;home/a | a class=url href=http://jeffmcneill.com/blog;blog/a | a class=url href=irc://irc.freenode.net/jeffmcneill,isnickirc/a | a class=url href=xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED]jabber/a | a class=url href=skype:jeffmcneillskype/a -- Sincerely, Jeff McNeill http://jeffmcneill.com/ On 1/20/08, Bruno Miguel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know. But, by reducing the number of people who check my email, I reduce the hate mails. One more thing: to add a msn messenger link, I should use a class=url href=msnim:[EMAIL PROTECTED]texttexttext/a? ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] marking up initials in names
Happy holidays, Why not just mark up the A. in first name and N. in middle name? Realizing that the full names are not given, initials can be place holders in the meantime. I believe this is how citation systems largely use initials. -- Sincerely, Jeff McNeill http://jeffmcneill.com/ On 12/30/07, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Paul Wilkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes On Dec 31, 2007 11:38 AM, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a need to mark up some people's names, which are given as initials only, and where the full names for which those initials stand are not known. For example, A. N. Other. snip In the absence of an initials property, how would you mark up such a name, in an hCard? How would you enter the information into an address book? You would put A. N. as the first name, or even A. for the first name and N. as the additional name. While one of your two proposals - probably the former - may be the best possible solution, given the current hCard spec, I specifically said in my full e-mail that it was not known, in this example, whether the person's given name was (say) Adrian or Nigel. There is no first name attribute in hCard or vCard. No other special stuff is required. The above issues aside, A is neither a first nor a given name. It's an abbreviation for one or other such a name, which remains unknown. Indicating that A. N. are initials, and not names, would add semantic specificity. -- Andy Mabbett ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Citation and alternates-brainstorming
Aloha Andy, et al, Use cases for alternates could be as follows: 1. Amazon.com page on a book with alternate versions, e.g., http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0789723107/ref=cm_cr_pr_orig_subj 2. TED.com talks, which include links to mp4, zipped mp4 and itunes, e.g., http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/51 3. New York Times, which include links to single-page and print versions of articles, e.g., http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/13/business/13fed.html In particular, I am seeking a solution that can deal with different filetypes (audio vs. video) as well as content length. Let me include part of the original post: There hasn't been much lately regarding the 'alternates' discussion[1]. It seems that in the HTML spec[2], 'alternate' is meant as something the user can choose between, i.e., style sheets[3], and/or something the browser can try and render in a given rank order, i.e., objects[4]. The suggested use of ol for preference and ul for no preference is clever[1]. (this example modified from the wiki entry[1]) ol class=alternates lia href=example.mp3 rel=enclosure alternate type=audio/mpegMP3/a/li lia href=example.wav rel=enclosure alternate type=audio/wavWAV/a/li lia href=example.mov rel=enclosure alternate type=video/quicktimeMOV/a/li /ol -- Sincerely, Jeff McNeill http://jeffmcneill.com/ On 12/12/07, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeff McNeill [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes There hasn't been much lately regarding the 'alternates' discussion [...] Any thoughts? What's the use-case? -- Andy Mabbett ___ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Citation and alternates-brainstorming
Hello Microformaters, * A user-agent could at the least identify one or more alternate formats for the current item or a linked item. * It could also identify the order of preference of alternates. * This could be used by microformat-aware search to provide search result links to alternates. * This could also be used to support mirror lists (instead of alternate formats, simply alternate locations), this could then be used by a user agent to download/retrieve by picking from the top of the preferred list or among a list of non-preferred (unordered) locations. * It may be possible for a user-agent to be aware of a format preference in the case of alternate formats or application support, such as preference for certain kinds of media readers, e.g., iTunes itpc:// links vs. mp4 downloads. Let me know if this answers the question. Not quite sure the format/content being looked for in terms of user-agent use. Cheers, -- Sincerely, Jeff McNeill http://jeffmcneill.com/ On 12/13/07, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, December 13, 2007 09:27, Jeff McNeill wrote: Use cases for alternates could be as follows: [...] Thank you. That explains what alternates are; but not how the proposed microformat would be /used/. In other words, what would a user agent *do* with them? -- Andy Mabbett ** via webmail ** ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] Citation and alternates-brainstorming
Aloha, Interesting that alternates was brainstormed in terms of hItem as mentioned previously in the thread, but also could and perhaps should initially apply to citation. If I understand the citation discussion at http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-irc-notes-2006-04-09#Summary an alternate would be a reference and could therefore be a part of the citation discussion. I appreciate the comment that description could be a superset of reference, but need not be determined by the reference (citation) mf. -- Sincerely, Jeff McNeill http://jeffmcneill.com/ On 12/13/07, Angus McIntyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, December 13, 2007 12:44 pm, Robert O'Rourke wrote: Perhaps in the case of a podcast or video blog you could tell your feed-reader what format you prefer and it would grab the right file. That's one possibility but I don't know of anyone who does podcasts/video blogs in multiple formats. We do, 'we' being my $DAYJOB at http://blip.tv/. I've actually been following this thread with interest because our pages currently contain a list of the alternate formats available for any given post. Some of our show creators make their episodes available in five or six different formats. Take a look, for example, at: http://blip.tv/file/509978/ In the bottom-right of that page you'll see a list of the different formats available for download. Unless I'm misreading what 'alternates' is supposed to be, that's a real-world example where it could be applied and - because we're microformats enthusiasts - certainly would be. Angus ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] Citation and alternates-brainstorming
Aloha folks, There hasn't been much lately regarding the 'alternates' discussion[1]. It seems that in the HTML spec[2], 'alternate' is meant as something the user can choose between, i.e., style sheets[3], and/or something the browser can try and render in a given rank order, i.e., objects[4]. The suggested use of ol for preference and ul for no preference is clever[1]. (this example modified from the wiki entry[1]) ol class=alternates lia href=example.mp3 rel=enclosure alternate type=audio/mpegMP3/a/li lia href=example.wav rel=enclosure alternate type=audio/wavWAV/a/li lia href=example.mov rel=enclosure alternate type=video/quicktimeMOV/a/li /ol Another option may be to try and and bring up alternates to the level of each being an hentry of an overall hfeed[5]. While that might provide greater facility to allow for various metadata around a given alternate (e.g., video vs. audio vs. format size, or even abbreviated vs. longer versions of content), the simple uses cases may become a bit stretched. Any thoughts? [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/alternates-brainstorming [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/index/list.html [3] http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/styles.html#didx-style_sheet [4] http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/objects.html#edef-OBJECT [5] http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom -- Sincerely, Jeff McNeill http://jeffmcneill.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hCite nesting (citation/bibliography/collection/collections)
Aloha, Take for example CiteSeer[1], a collection of the metadata for 767,558 documents. An example metadata page[2] has a number of bibliographies embedded in it[3], including: [A] Documents which cite the current document [B] Documents which share citations with the current document [C] Documents which are similar based on textual content [D] Other documents which are being cited by those citing this current document (A) [E] Citations from the current document, and [F] Documents from the same site as the current document Note that these metadata pages also have ratings (1-5 stars), summaries, bibTeX entries, and citation statistics. On the ACM website[4], a given article[5] has a link to 'find similar articles'[6], which is in essence an annotated bibliography. It seems that rel (rev being deprecated[7]), with a bit of semantics, could distinguish the various kinds and instances of citation in a given document. There seem to be the following: [i] works cited [ii] works citing [iii] works sharing citation [iv] works otherwise akin (non-reference-based) In the case of [D] above, we have a nested relationship of [ii]:[i], namely the works cited from those works citing this one. References [1] http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/cs [2] http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/darken98navigating.html [3] http://bizseer.ist.psu.edu/help/SMEALSearch-help-documentPage.html [4] http://www.acm.org/ [5] http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1284621.1284635 [6] http://tinyurl.com/2fhax5 [7] http://microformats.org/wiki/rev#Should_rev_even_be_used -- Sincerely, Jeff McNeill http://jeffmcneill.com/ On 10/14/07, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff McNeill wrote: Question: is there a set of semantic containers that could identify a bibliography within a given document, as well as a collection of bibliographies across documents? What's wrong with... ul class=bibliography/a link href=foobar rel=bibliography (from each document in the collection) -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] hCite intra-document reference
Aloha microformaters, Within given documents, especially academic journals articles, but also widely used in books, there are citations 'in-line', such as APA format (Author, YEAR), which are intra-document references to a more complete bibliography/references, at the end of articles, chapters, books, or proceedings. (Sometimes references are referred to by a footnote.) Would it be plausible to use an include pattern[1] to provide in-line citation and more complete citation/bibliographic reference? This would also support the wikiref template for mediawiki[2]. [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/include-pattern [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Wikiref -- Sincerely, Jeff McNeill http://jeffmcneill.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] hCite nesting (citation/bibliography/collection/collections)
Aloha microformaters, Individual citations are often collected within a document as a bibliography (references). Bibliographies from the library/institutional perspective are organized in collections (either the references or the actual items referenced. Another example of collections of references would be the references across a number of papers, collected as a group. Question: is there a set of semantic containers that could identify a bibliography within a given document, as well as a collection of bibliographies across documents? -- Sincerely, Jeff McNeill http://jeffmcneill.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
Re: [uf-discuss] hResume use of hCalendar and 'summary' element requirement of vevents
Why, um, that is an excellent idea. **smacks head with microformats book** Thank you Brian. -- Sincerely, Jeff McNeill http://jeffmcneill.com/ On 10/11/07, Brian Suda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/11/07, Jeff McNeill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Aloha folks, My hResume marked-up resume at http://jeffmcneill.com/microformats/hresume-jeffmcneill.html is getting validation errors in Operator because I do not have a 'summary' element for the education and service list items. I am using the abr class='title' markup to identify titles and an additional 'summary' would be redundant or unnecessary in terms of information provided. --- why not use title and summary on the same element? like this: li class=vevent education span class=title summaryPhD, Communication amp; Information Sciences/span span class=vcard a class=fn org url href=http://www.hawaii.edu/;University of Hawaii at Manoa/a, /span abbr class=dtstart title=200806012008/abbr /li -- brian suda http://suda.co.uk ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
[uf-discuss] hResume use of hCalendar and 'summary' element requirement of vevents
Aloha folks, My hResume marked-up resume at http://jeffmcneill.com/microformats/hresume-jeffmcneill.html is getting validation errors in Operator because I do not have a 'summary' element for the education and service list items. I am using the abr class='title' markup to identify titles and an additional 'summary' would be redundant or unnecessary in terms of information provided. I read in a previous discussion somewhere that 'summary' is not officially required by the iCalendar spec. Would this be a case when it could be disregarded, or is it possible to make it optional as part of hCalendar? Or is there a suggested way of nesting the markup to prevent redundancy? (I would like to point out that in the Allsopp Microformats book on p. 215 there is precisely the 'summary' element missing in the 'vevent education' example in the second list item.) I would be grateful for any thoughts on this. -- Sincerely, Jeff McNeill http://jeffmcneill.com/ ___ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss