Re: Suggestion: new webpage for openbsd.org

[Jay Patel]

I would like to see openbsd.org in http://openbsdfoundation.org/ this style

On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 12:41 PM, Joakim Frostegård <
joakim.frosteg...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I’ve made a responsive new webpage replacement for the
> in my opinion somewhat aged openbsd.org .
>
> It’s available at http://greatest-ape.github.io/openbsd-site/public_html/
> 
> with the repo at https://github.com/greatest-ape/openbsd-site
>  .
>
> The idea is to replace index.html but for all other pages just
> replace the stylesheets. In so far, I’ve included a few other
> pages, including plat.html, goals.html and alpha.html.
>
> I’ve tried to keep the page without bells and whistles, that is:
> * Just static HTML and CSS
> * No frameworks
> * No javascript
> * Minimalist design
>
> though I have included the Apache 2-licensed Open Sans
> from Google Fonts. If you like the page, I guess we could
> build our own font instead of using the google repository.
>
> Is this the right place to post this? Are you (the openbsd devs)
> interested in this at all?
>
> If yes, we would also need to make sure that the creator of
> the nice openbsd logo included is happy with us using it for
> the webpage. Apart from that, I would be happy to license
> my work under BSD, MIT or whatever you want.
>
> Cheers
> Joakim

Re: vi vs emacs, which one makes me look more smart in front of my friends?

[G S Osler]

On Tue, 2016-05-17 at 19:33 -0700, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote:
> > acme(1)
> 
> Or sam(1) if you are a purist.
> 

emacs nXML mode
https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_mono/nxml-mode.html

+ 

Practical Ontologies for Information Professionals, David Stuart
http://www.facetpublishing.co.uk/title.php?id=300624#.VzvqNvp4fod

= about as smart as it gets

Re: vi vs emacs, which one makes me look more smart in front of my friends?

[Joel Wirāmu Pauling]

ed()

QED.



On 18 May 2016 at 14:33, Lyndon Nerenberg  wrote:

> > acme(1)
>
> Or sam(1) if you are a purist.

Re: vi vs emacs, which one makes me look more smart in front of my friends?

[Lyndon Nerenberg]

> In all seriousness, Richard Stallman incurred a repetitive stress injury
> from using emacs commands. Holding down Ctrl or Alt can be bad for your
> health. That's why I generally use vi even though there are things I don't
> like and wish there were a better choice by default.

acme(1)

Re: vi vs emacs, which one makes me look more smart in front of my friends?

[Lyndon Nerenberg]

> acme(1)

Or sam(1) if you are a purist.

Re: vi vs emacs, which one makes me look more smart in front of my friends?

[Pavan Maddamsetti]

In all seriousness, Richard Stallman incurred a repetitive stress injury
from using emacs commands. Holding down Ctrl or Alt can be bad for your
health. That's why I generally use vi even though there are things I don't
like and wish there were a better choice by default.

Re: Static webpages with OpenBSD - success stories

[Ingo Schwarze]

Hi Predrag,

Predrag Punosevac wrote on Tue, May 17, 2016 at 06:59:15PM -0400:

> OpenBSD is shipped with the static webpage generator (sort of).
> It is called mandoc.  man mandoc and check out -T html switch.

That one is a bit specialized: for manual pages.  =:c)

True, i once heard of one developer who used it for creating a small
static website that had nothing to do with manuals.  But i must
admit it's not really intended as a general-purpose tool.

> If you ask me this 
>   http://mdocml.bsd.lv/
> and this 
>   http://manpages.bsd.lv/history.html
> are pretty darn good looking static websites.
> They are generated with mandoc.

Sorry, no, they aren't, they were written by hand, mostly by Kristaps.
They are merely using a stylesheet that slightly resembles the
mandoc.css stylesheet.

But here are a few static webpages generated by mandoc(1) -Thtml:

  http://mdocml.bsd.lv/man/

Basically, all the links of the form "name(section)" on that
page, and on the pages you can reach from there.

Ironically, the same pages on

  http://man.openbsd.org/

are not statically pregenerated, but dynamically generated
on demand.  But the user will hardly care.

Yours,
  Ingo

Re: Static webpages with OpenBSD - success stories

[Predrag Punosevac]

OpenBSD is shipped with the static webpage generator (sort of). It is
called mandoc. man mandoc and check out -T html switch. If you ask me
this 

http://mdocml.bsd.lv/

and

this 

http://manpages.bsd.lv/history.html

are pretty darn good looking static websites. They are generated with
mandoc.

Cheers,
Predrag

P.S. Another almost orthogonal idea is to pick a Free CSS Template 

http://www.free-css.com/free-css-templates/page1

and just quickly hack AWK  or Perl code which helps you update the
content (I have done that in the past using AWK).

Mod_rewrite.so use

[STeve Andre']

Sorry not my usual mail program

Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com


--- Forwarded message ---
From: STeve Andre' 
Date: May 17, 2016 4:16:13 PM
Subject: Mod_rewrite.so use

I am creating a Web server using apache2. For the moment I need to
use it.

To enable mod_rewrite.so you simply uncomment it in httpd2.conf and
restart apache, correct?  I haven't used a2 before.

This is a -current system with amd64 packages of may 15.  Verifying that
what I think is correct.  This is using WordPress 4.5.2. Cough...

Thanks for any clue bats.

STeve Andre'

Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com

Re: Is loss of read-only /usr permanent?

[Mike Larkin]

On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 07:45:55PM +0100, Kevin Chadwick wrote:
> > > UPS do fail too btw. I had to rip some cheap APC ones out because
> > > they caused more downtime than they saved!  
> > 
> > Did you just copy paste this line from somewhere?  You can't handle a
> > battery replacement, and you're advising read only file system mounts.
> 
> I sometimes agree with some things you say but boy are you way too hot
> headed.
> 
> You assume a lot and I expect it has got you in trouble before. If not
> then I expect it will if you actually speak to anyone in person like
> that.
> 
> You assume:
> 
> I'm not a founder of an electronics design and engineering company
> 
> My fathers company wasn't the first in the world AFAIK to sell a rugged
> DC vehicle UPS
> 
> I didn't transfer 8 batteries from ex rental stock and wire them
> together into a working AC UPS (to save money).
> 
> Those other APC UPS that failed didn't have brand new batteries and were
> just craply designed electronics that would switch off during a
> battery removal.
> 
> My cousin had clients that were annoyed because an expensive UPS failed
> due to a huge surge, who knows, perhaps lightning and they thought
> paying over a thousand pounds should keep them running no matter what
> happened.
> 
> I'm not a troll that has been on this list for far longer than when
> your quite fitting email address domain first appeared.
> 
> 
> p.s. My DATA is quite safe. I assure you.
> 
> -- 
> 
> KISSIS - Keep It Simple So It's Securable
> 

take this offline please. nobody cares anymore.

Re: vi vs emacs, which one makes me look more smart in front of my friends?

[Daniel Wilkins]

On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 07:25:45AM +0100, trebol55...@yandex.ru wrote:
> mg(1)
> 
> […] It is compatible with emacs because
>  there shouldn't be any reason to learn more editor types than emacs or
>  vi(1).
>  
> Where is the troll, where is the silly troll?
> 

Given enough time, a UNIX user's likelihood to use one of the two approaches 1.
Why not support both sane configurations out of the box?

Re: Suggestion: new webpage for openbsd.org

[lists]

Tue, 17 May 2016 13:04:26 -0400 "Ted Unangst" 
> Joakim Frostegård wrote:
> > The idea is to replace index.html but for all other pages just
> > replace the stylesheets. In so far, I’ve included a few other
> > pages, including plat.html, goals.html and alpha.html.
> >
> > I’ve tried to keep the page without bells and whistles, that is:
> > * Just static HTML and CSS
> > * No frameworks
> > * No javascript
> > * Minimalist design
> >
> > though I have included the Apache 2-licensed Open Sans
> > from Google Fonts. If you like the page, I guess we could
> > build our own font instead of using the google repository.
> >
> > Is this the right place to post this? Are you (the openbsd devs)
> > interested in this at all?
>
> Interest varies by person. But since this retains much of the old look, I
> think it's not bad.
>
> That said:
>
> Yellow is far too light. No contrast with white. Use a dark blue for
contrast.
>
> The left menu needs to set off someway. It can't all blend together.
>
> The new plat.html does look better. I think the current pages use red as an
> accent color but they shouldn't.
>
> As long as links are readily identifiable, removing the underlines reduces
a
> lot of noise. But not yellow.
>
> The wider margins do help on wide screens.

At which point it is a three liner to the current CSS, hence already
there, only slightly off in the future and closing in, or not at all.

Re: Acer Aspire V5-571 WiFi card and Click Pad help

[Siju George]

On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 7:42 PM, Ulf Brosziewski <
ulf.brosziew...@t-online.de> wrote:

> X doesn't recognize the touchpad as clickpad automatically. Open
> an X-terminal and enter
> $ synclient ClickPad=1
> This will enable click-and-drag/select actions with two fingers. For
> emulating left-clicks with tapping, enter
> $ synclient TapButton1=1
> and for right-clicks with two-finger tapping, the command is
> $ synclient TapButton2=3
>
> Of course, you can also automate this and make it permanent, see
> $ man synaptics
> $ man xorg.conf
> etc.
>
>
> On 05/15/2016 10:57 AM, Siju George wrote:
> > I have an Acer Aspire V5-571 with OEM Windows 8. I am going to wipe
> Windows
> > and install OpenBSD on it.
> >
> > As a trial I installed OpenBSD 5.9 in one of the GPT partitions and face
> > there issues.
> >
> > 1. Atheros AR9462 Wifi card shows up in dmesg but not in ifconfig
> > fw_update does not help. How can I get wireless enabled?
> >
> > 2. Touch pad - Elantec Clickpad version4 works but selection of text
> > holding the left corner does not work. tapping to choose does not work
> > either.
> >
> > Any help to make these things work is highly appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Siju
> >
> >
>
> ​Could you also teach me about copying ​and pasting with the touch pad?
THanks :)

Siju

Re: Is loss of read-only /usr permanent?

[Kevin Chadwick]

> > UPS do fail too btw. I had to rip some cheap APC ones out because
> > they caused more downtime than they saved!  
> 
> Did you just copy paste this line from somewhere?  You can't handle a
> battery replacement, and you're advising read only file system mounts.

I sometimes agree with some things you say but boy are you way too hot
headed.

You assume a lot and I expect it has got you in trouble before. If not
then I expect it will if you actually speak to anyone in person like
that.

You assume:

I'm not a founder of an electronics design and engineering company

My fathers company wasn't the first in the world AFAIK to sell a rugged
DC vehicle UPS

I didn't transfer 8 batteries from ex rental stock and wire them
together into a working AC UPS (to save money).

Those other APC UPS that failed didn't have brand new batteries and were
just craply designed electronics that would switch off during a
battery removal.

My cousin had clients that were annoyed because an expensive UPS failed
due to a huge surge, who knows, perhaps lightning and they thought
paying over a thousand pounds should keep them running no matter what
happened.

I'm not a troll that has been on this list for far longer than when
your quite fitting email address domain first appeared.


p.s. My DATA is quite safe. I assure you.

-- 

KISSIS - Keep It Simple So It's Securable

Re: Suggestion: new webpage for openbsd.org

[Ted Unangst]

Joakim Frostegård wrote:
> The idea is to replace index.html but for all other pages just
> replace the stylesheets. In so far, I’ve included a few other
> pages, including plat.html, goals.html and alpha.html.
> 
> I’ve tried to keep the page without bells and whistles, that is:
> * Just static HTML and CSS
> * No frameworks
> * No javascript
> * Minimalist design
> 
> though I have included the Apache 2-licensed Open Sans
> from Google Fonts. If you like the page, I guess we could
> build our own font instead of using the google repository.
> 
> Is this the right place to post this? Are you (the openbsd devs)
> interested in this at all?

Interest varies by person. But since this retains much of the old look, I
think it's not bad.

That said:

Yellow is far too light. No contrast with white. Use a dark blue for contrast.

The left menu needs to set off someway. It can't all blend together.

The new plat.html does look better. I think the current pages use red as an
accent color but they shouldn't.

As long as links are readily identifiable, removing the underlines reduces a
lot of noise. But not yellow.

The wider margins do help on wide screens.

Re: Suggestion: new webpage for openbsd.org

[lists]

Tue, 17 May 2016 09:11:44 +0200 Joakim Frostegård

> I’ve made a responsive new webpage replacement for the
> in my opinion somewhat aged openbsd.org .
> It’s available at http://greatest-ape.github.io/openbsd-site/public_html/

You did a wonderful job, yet your contrast scheme is an abomination.
Now it's time you translate ssh(1) into simple English on Wikipedia.

ssh - OpenSSH SSH client (remote login program)
[http://man.openbsd.org/ssh]

If in doubt, use auto-translate from a popular web site, interested?

> I’ve tried to keep the page without bells and whistles, that is:

It does not have such now, so there should be practically an empty diff.

> Is this the right place to post this? Are you (the openbsd devs)
> interested in this at all?

As 1 happy OpenBSD user for many years, I don't see any point in this.

> If yes, we would also need to make sure that the creator of
> the nice openbsd logo included is happy with us using it for
> the webpage.

$ whois we

P.S. About 2 decades late for the web site party, welcome anytime still.

[http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/www/index.html]

Re: hostname.carp - CARP Bootup Woes Correct layout / format for >=5.9 - man page for hostname.carp

[Martin Pieuchot]

On 17/05/16(Tue) 16:37, Andy Lemin wrote:
> Hi Misc,
> 
> Since 5.9 (maybe earlier), we noticed that our CARP interfaces no longer
> behave as before, don't initialise properly on boot up, and throw errors at
> boot.
> 
> I know there has been lots of changes, especially IPv6. So hopefully this
> is a simple question and I'm just being stupid, and unable to find a man
> page that explains the correct format for hostname.carp ?
> 
> 
> Otherwise if their really is no man page for hostname.carp, then could
> someone please point us in the right direction.
> 
> - Using the following examples;
> hostname.ix0
> inet 10.255.12.2 255.255.255.0 10.255.12.255
> inet6 2a00:77e0:255:12::2 64
> inet6 eui64
> description "BACKHAUL"
> !route add -net 10.1.0.0/16 10.255.12.254
> 
> hostname.carp0
> inet 10.255.12.1 255.255.255.0 10.255.12.255
> inet6 2a00:77e0:255:12::1 64
> advbase 2 advskew 10 carpdev ix0 carppeer 10.255.12.3 pass testpass vhid 212
> inet6 eui64
> description "BACKHAUL"
> 
> - The following errors at boot are seen multiple times;
> ifconfig: SIOCAIFADDR: Invalid argument

That's because you're trying to add addresses *before* configuring
a "carpdev" (parent) interface.

Re: I am thankful for OpenBSD quality docs

[andrew fabbro]

On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 10:30 AM, Ingo Schwarze  wrote:

> In general, BSD documentation tends to be better
> than Linux documentation


A while back, feeling somewhat bitter after struggling with Linux docs
after growing accustomed to OpenBSD docs, I made this image which
summarizes my feelings:

http://i.imgur.com/EKsD7aG.png

OpenBSD's documentation, in my experience, exceeds the docs provided by
some commercial operating systems, and those companies can afford to have
full-time doc writers on staff.  OpenBSD documentation is the gold standard.

-- 
andrew fabbro
and...@fabbro.org

Re: Static webpages with OpenBSD - success stories

[Carson Chittom]

Paolo Aglialoro  writes:

> After a quick peek on openports I have seen pelican present, but couldn't
> identify more. On hugo webpage there's a package for OpenBSD
> https://github.com/spf13/hugo/releases

I just this week started using Pelican, largely because it *is* in
ports.  There seem to be a lot of themes available for it on Github, but
I haven't tried doing anything with them.  It works well, and the
Makefile you get out of its "initialize site directory" script covers
most use cases I could think of.  

The only caveat off the top of my head is that if you use the
autogenerated Makefile in your site's directory, you'll need gmake since
there are apparently some GNUisms.  I already had gmake installed, so I
didn't bother rewriting the Makefile.

Re: vi vs emacs, which one makes me look more smart in front of my friends?

[noah pugsley]

You are all wrong.

The correct answer is pico.

On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 11:36 PM,  wrote:

> // mg(1)
> //
> // […] It is compatible with emacs because
> // there shouldn't be any reason to learn more editor types than emacs
> or
> // vi(1).
> //
> // Where is the troll, where is the silly troll?
>
> Well, the sarcasm doesn't work good in a mail, so:
>
> - Use the editor that you like, editors war is the most retarded
> discussion you can have in your life.
>
> - You can't make such a statement in a man page, and then call a troll to
> someone who ask which one is better.

Re: I am thankful for OpenBSD quality docs

[Paul Suh]

> On May 17, 2016, at 11:17 AM, Donald Allen  wrote:
>
> My point is that good documentation is not
> easy to do, something I think many of us tend to forget. It's also
> less fun than writing code. Things like K&R that explain their subject
> so concisely and yet completely take tremendous skill. I myself am in
> the process of writing a document for a suite of personal financial
> management tools that I will release on github and I said to my wife
> the other day that writing the documentation is more difficult than
> writing the software.

Don,

I would agree with you 100%. I find that for my own software, the release
engineering (including writing and editing docs, taking screenshots, making
sure that the installer works correctly, making sure that the uninstaller
works correctly, testing on multiple systems with multiple configurations,
etc.) takes as much or more time than just writing the software. *Keeping* any
docs up to date (including screenshots and videos) is also a lot of work that
has to be factored in to update releases.


--Paul

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which 
had a name of smime.p7s]

hostname.carp - CARP Bootup Woes Correct layout / format for >=5.9 - man page for hostname.carp

[Andy Lemin]

Hi Misc,

Since 5.9 (maybe earlier), we noticed that our CARP interfaces no longer
behave as before, don't initialise properly on boot up, and throw errors at
boot.

I know there has been lots of changes, especially IPv6. So hopefully this
is a simple question and I'm just being stupid, and unable to find a man
page that explains the correct format for hostname.carp ?


Otherwise if their really is no man page for hostname.carp, then could
someone please point us in the right direction.

- Using the following examples;
hostname.ix0
inet 10.255.12.2 255.255.255.0 10.255.12.255
inet6 2a00:77e0:255:12::2 64
inet6 eui64
description "BACKHAUL"
!route add -net 10.1.0.0/16 10.255.12.254

hostname.carp0
inet 10.255.12.1 255.255.255.0 10.255.12.255
inet6 2a00:77e0:255:12::1 64
advbase 2 advskew 10 carpdev ix0 carppeer 10.255.12.3 pass testpass vhid 212
inet6 eui64
description "BACKHAUL"

- The following errors at boot are seen multiple times;
ifconfig: SIOCAIFADDR: Invalid argument

- The firewall boots up immediately as CARP Master, causing multi-Master :(

- Running "pfctl -sr -vv" shows it's running the default ruleset, even
though rc.conf (pf=YES) is default and "/etc/rc" shows it should load the
PF rules..

We believe this to be the cause of the multi-master as running "pfctl -f
/etc/pf.conf" and "sh /etc/netstart" resolves it and CARP goes Backup.

I have added the following lines to "/etc/rc.local" so that the firewall
can at least be rebooted (but only after carp goes INIT -> MASTER ->
BACKUP);
pfctl -f /etc/pf.conf
sh /etc/netstart

- Lastly Errors and Discards are now also being occasionally seen on the
CARP interfaces - Is there a change to the SNMPD and do we have to update
our MIBs?
Or if it is legit, what circumstances would a CARP interface see errors or
discards?


Thank you kindly in advanced for your time and thoughts.
Cheers, Andy.


NB; We have been running CARP without problems since OpenBSD 4.9.
We have read; http://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade59.html, upgrade58,
upgrade57 and upgrade56
We know about "man hostname.if" but this does not include any carp
examples, syntax, or general implementation (how ifconfig maps in etc) for
hostname.carp.

Re: Static webpages with OpenBSD - success stories

[attila]

Paolo Aglialoro  writes:

> Hello,
>
> yesterday I've been at an interesting presentation of pelican (it was a
> git+pelican+fabric gramework), in order to create static websites and I
> very much appreciated the topic. I had also recently had a look at jekill
> (which looks kinda promising), but discovered that there is a whole "world"
> of static site generators described at the page
> https://staticsitegenerators.net/ among which some look also interesting to
> me in case of customizations because just based on shell scripts and not on
> python/java/perl/etc in which I am not fluent: I am starting from the basic
> bashblog to more complex like rawk, baker, simsalabash.
>
> After a quick peek on openports I have seen pelican present, but couldn't
> identify more. On hugo webpage there's a package for OpenBSD
> https://github.com/spf13/hugo/releases
>
> Did you have success experiences with them or similar products on OpenBSD
> (e.g. octopress, jekyll, etc)? What would you advice to build a static site
> which should sport light but sexy template (e.g. scroll effects), multiple
> pages, pictures and some media links (like embedded youtube videos, for
> instance)? Use of googleforms would be a bonus.
>
> Also, on source language: although being asciidoc present in OpenBSD,
> markdown seems at the moment the "industry standard". In ports, besides
> python version of markdown, I've found a really interesting C port of it,
> named "discount". Do you have had any previous experience with it and would
> you suggest it instead of plain python version?

FWIW, textproc/multimarkdown is pretty nice for static sites.
https://torbsd.github.io is done in multimarkdown with a simple
Makefile and some CSS.  I also use multimarkdown to generate PDFs, via
dblatex - always looks nice (but maybe I'm easier to please than you
:-).  Multimarkdown's simple extensions to markdown are all useful, no
fluff.

>
> Thanks

Pax, -A
--
http://haqistan.net/~attila | att...@stalphonsos.com | 0x62A729CF

Re: I am thankful for OpenBSD quality docs

[Donald Allen]

On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 10:30 AM, Ingo Schwarze  wrote:
> Hi Paul,
>
> Paul Suh wrote on Tue, May 17, 2016 at 09:20:45AM -0400:
>
>> I've been playing over at Alpine Linux, to get support for a WiFi card
>> that is not supported under OpenBSD.  Their installation instructions
>> and general documentation are horribly confused and outdated.
>
> I don't know about the quality of the content of Alpine Linux
> documentation.  In general, BSD documentation tends to be better
> than Linux documentation, so the problem may or may not be specific
> to Alpine.
>
> But Alpine Linux is unique with respect to documentation in more
> than one way:  It is the first Linux distro that ever used mandoc(1)
> by default - since June 2011, more than a year before NetBSD, more
> than three years before FreeBSD and illumos.  It is the first other
> operating system to integrate and enable the OpenBSD man(1)
> implementation by default - since December 2014.  And as far as i'm
> aware, it is still one among the only three systems using OpenBSD
> man(1):  OpenBSD, Alpine Linux, and Void Linux.
>
>> Makes me long for our goodness here.

I have experience with Alpine Linux's documentation and I agree
completely with the original poster about its low quality. It is
frequently quite difficult to find out what you need to know in order
to effectively use Alpine. This deficiency is compounded by a
developer group that is notably unresponsive to user questions.
OpenBSD excels in both areas. It is among the best in this regard, if
not the best, of the open-source systems with which I am familiar.

I would also comment that the mechanism by which the documentation is
delivered is a small issue, in my opinion, compared with the quality
of the writing -- how well the document explains the issues that it is
attempting to address. I have recently had a look at Rust, an
interesting new programming language with which I became aware as a
result of someone mentioning it in a post on this list. A significant
effort has been made to create a book describing the language.
However, in my opinion, the book is not good, failing to adequately
explain some of the innovative concepts in Rust. This was not for lack
of effort. Perhaps it is simply lack of writing ability on the part of
the author (I do not believe it is because he doesn't know his
subject). Other factors may be at work, too (the language has been a
bit of a moving target). My point is that good documentation is not
easy to do, something I think many of us tend to forget. It's also
less fun than writing code. Things like K&R that explain their subject
so concisely and yet completely take tremendous skill. I myself am in
the process of writing a document for a suite of personal financial
management tools that I will release on github and I said to my wife
the other day that writing the documentation is more difficult than
writing the software.

/Don Allen



>
> You are welcome,
>   Ingo

Re: IPv6 fragmentation woes

[Christoph Viethen]

I tried "ping6 2001:7f8:54::250" myself right now.


Sorry, that should have read:

"I tried

$ ping6 -s 1234 2001:7f8:54::145  "

(I did send the packets to ..::145 , not the other one)

Re: I am thankful for OpenBSD quality docs

[Theo de Raadt]

> But Alpine Linux is unique with respect to documentation in more
> than one way:  It is the first Linux distro that ever used mandoc(1)
> by default - since June 2011, more than a year before NetBSD, more
> than three years before FreeBSD and illumos.  It is the first other
> operating system to integrate and enable the OpenBSD man(1)
> implementation by default - since December 2014.  And as far as i'm
> aware, it is still one among the only three systems using OpenBSD
> man(1):  OpenBSD, Alpine Linux, and Void Linux.

which doesn't help if you have no text to throw at it

Re: I am thankful for OpenBSD quality docs

[Ingo Schwarze]

Hi Paul,

Paul Suh wrote on Tue, May 17, 2016 at 09:20:45AM -0400:

> I've been playing over at Alpine Linux, to get support for a WiFi card
> that is not supported under OpenBSD.  Their installation instructions
> and general documentation are horribly confused and outdated.

I don't know about the quality of the content of Alpine Linux
documentation.  In general, BSD documentation tends to be better
than Linux documentation, so the problem may or may not be specific
to Alpine.

But Alpine Linux is unique with respect to documentation in more
than one way:  It is the first Linux distro that ever used mandoc(1)
by default - since June 2011, more than a year before NetBSD, more
than three years before FreeBSD and illumos.  It is the first other
operating system to integrate and enable the OpenBSD man(1)
implementation by default - since December 2014.  And as far as i'm
aware, it is still one among the only three systems using OpenBSD
man(1):  OpenBSD, Alpine Linux, and Void Linux.

> Makes me long for our goodness here.

You are welcome,
  Ingo

Re: Static webpages with OpenBSD - success stories

[Rick Hanson]

On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Paolo Aglialoro  wrote:
> Hello,

Hi!

> yesterday I've been at an interesting presentation of pelican (it was a
> git+pelican+fabric gramework), in order to create static websites and I
> very much appreciated the topic. I had also recently had a look at jekill
> (which looks kinda promising), but discovered that there is a whole "world"
> of static site generators described at the page
> https://staticsitegenerators.net/ among which some look also interesting to
> me in case of customizations because just based on shell scripts and not on
> python/java/perl/etc in which I am not fluent: I am starting from the basic
> bashblog to more complex like rawk, baker, simsalabash.
>
> After a quick peek on openports I have seen pelican present, but couldn't
> identify more. On hugo webpage there's a package for OpenBSD
> https://github.com/spf13/hugo/releases
>
> Did you have success experiences with them or similar products on OpenBSD
> (e.g. octopress, jekyll, etc)? What would you advice to build a static site
> which should sport light but sexy template (e.g. scroll effects), multiple
> pages, pictures and some media links (like embedded youtube videos, for
> instance)? Use of googleforms would be a bonus.

I've had great success with this: https://github.com/nuex/zodiac.
It's on the list you mentioned.  You can build whatever you want on
top of it because it's so simple and hackable.

> Also, on source language: although being asciidoc present in OpenBSD,
> markdown seems at the moment the "industry standard". In ports, besides
> python version of markdown, I've found a really interesting C port of it,
> named "discount". Do you have had any previous experience with it and would
> you suggest it instead of plain python version?

Yes. I use discount with zodiac (mentioned above). It's great and has
a nice build system. You can build it out-of-the-box on OpenBSD (i.e.
no GNUisms).

> Thanks
>

Have fun!

Re: letsencrypt redux

[Kristaps Dzonsons]

>> It's designed to run on OpenBSD but works crappily on Mac OS X and
>> Linux.  Crappily because both are hostile to good security practises.
>> I'm not going to put any extra effort into these for compatibility.
> 
> I think you already added a lot of compatibility goo. 
> Might have been better if you started with a clean OpenBSD only client.

Joerg,

The only real compat is the ifdef for OpenBSD's pledge and for OSX's
sandbox_init (which is all but useless and can be removed without loss
of functionality), an ifdef for setres[ug]id and sys_signame (for
debugging), and some _GNU_SOURCE for asprintf on Linux (meh).  Since
moving DNS resolution to its own component, dnsproc.c, there's no funny
compat business in terms of programme flow, functionality, or structure.
 In other words, if I were to rebuild it without Linux or Mac, it
wouldn't look different with one exception that will shortly go away
(using setproctitle and err.h instead of having my own dowarnx et al).

Best,

Kristaps

Re: Suggestion: new webpage for openbsd.org

[trondd]

On Tue, May 17, 2016 3:11 am, Joakim Frostegård wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Iâ**ve made a responsive new webpage replacement for the
> in my opinion somewhat aged openbsd.org .
>
> Iâ**ve tried to keep the page without bells and whistles, that is:
> * Just static HTML and CSS
> * No frameworks
> * No javascript
> * Minimalist design
>
>

I'm all for improvements as long as I can get the information I need.  But
take a look at your site and openbsd.org in www/links+ and you'll see my
opinion of your changes.

Tim.

Re: IPv6 fragmentation woes

[Christoph Viethen]

Hello,

on 17.05.2016 14:05, Laurent CARON wrote:


When sending a ping 6 to a destination not accepting fragmented
packets, I experience loss with "big" (but < 1500) packets.

% ping6 -s 1234 2001:7f8:54::250

Ex:
14:03:07.959532 2001:7f8:54::145 > 2001:7f8:54::250: frag
(0xbfb11fea:1232@0+) icmp6: echo request
14:03:07.959536 2001:7f8:54::145 > 2001:7f8:54::250: frag
(0xbfb11fea:10@1232)
14:03:07.960179 2001:7f8:54::250 > 2001:7f8:54::145: icmp6: echo reply


Sorry, just been to lunch and probably my brain is off ... but where 
exactly is the loss here? You are getting a reply, right? Maybe the 
receiver did receive all the fragments, figured the path MTU is large 
enough and sent you back a non-fragmented echo reply?


And what do you mean by saying "destination not accepting fragmented 
packets"? Do all the fragments reach the destination (and the 
destination then has to figure out what to do with them)? Or does some 
middlebox (I'm thinking switches / routers) touch the traffic, 
discarding e.g. non-initial fragments?


Can you do tcpdump or tshark etc. on the source as well as on the 
destination box to see what exactly gets through and whether your 
problem is sender/destination-related or rather middlebox-related?



Oh, and what exactly caused the fragmentation in the first place? Your 
local MTU seems larger than the required 1242 bytes, so path MTU 
discovery must have kicked in somewhere on the way. Shouldn't you have 
gotten ICMPv6 packet too big (type 2) messages on ..::145 ? Those 
should be visible in tcpdump .. but you are not showing any.



I tried "ping6 2001:7f8:54::250" myself right now. Seems that my ICMP 
echo request goes through unfragmented, whereas I'm getting two 
fragments (first: 1232 bytes) back. So on the path from ...::145 to 
me, fragmentation seems to happen, but not in the other direction. 
IMHO, this means that ..::145 must have successfully performed PMTUD.



Cheers,

  Christoph

--
 open...@aixplosive.net

I am thankful for OpenBSD quality docs

[Paul Suh]

Folks,

I've been playing over at Alpine Linux, to get support for a WiFi card that is
not supported under OpenBSD. Their installation instructions and general
documentation are horribly confused and outdated. Makes me long for our
goodness here.


--Paul

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which 
had a name of smime.p7s]

Re: letsencrypt redux

[Joerg Jung]

> Am 15.05.2016 um 18:56 schrieb Kristaps Dzonsons :
> 
> A few days ago, there was a thread regarding letsencrypt clients and
> their, um, cavalier approach to security.  Since I like my free certs
> and I like automation, and I also like not worrying about being owned, I
> reckoned I could do better than mystery-meat clients.
> 
> https://github.com/kristapsdz/letskencrypt
> 
> This isolates the steps of refreshing a certificate into isolated
> processes, each of which is priv-dropped, chrooted, pledged, etc.  The
> manpage says it all:
> 
> https://github.com/kristapsdz/letskencrypt/blob/master/letskencrypt.1
> 
> It's obviously brand-new, but it works and I thought I'd see if
> anybody's interested in looking over the libcrypto bits--if not the
> approach in general.  The stuff that has manpages I think I get, but
> there's some (e.g., X509v3 extension handling, properly seeding RAND,
> calling _free if the ptr is NULL, memory management, ...) that's
> undocumented and is just shot in the dark.  Moreover, the answers
> offered on OpenSSL mailing lists seem... questionable.
> 
> It's designed to run on OpenBSD but works crappily on Mac OS X and
> Linux.  Crappily because both are hostile to good security practises.
> I'm not going to put any extra effort into these for compatibility.

I think you already added a lot of compatibility goo. 
Might have been better if you started with a clean OpenBSD only client.

> (Side note: this requires the patch to json-c posted 09/05/2015 to the
> ports list.  Or is there a better json parser in C?)

This one looks promising: http://zserge.bitbucket.org/jsmn.html

> Thoughts?  Letsencrypt experts?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Kristaps

Static webpages with OpenBSD - success stories

[Paolo Aglialoro]

Hello,

yesterday I've been at an interesting presentation of pelican (it was a
git+pelican+fabric gramework), in order to create static websites and I
very much appreciated the topic. I had also recently had a look at jekill
(which looks kinda promising), but discovered that there is a whole "world"
of static site generators described at the page
https://staticsitegenerators.net/ among which some look also interesting to
me in case of customizations because just based on shell scripts and not on
python/java/perl/etc in which I am not fluent: I am starting from the basic
bashblog to more complex like rawk, baker, simsalabash.

After a quick peek on openports I have seen pelican present, but couldn't
identify more. On hugo webpage there's a package for OpenBSD
https://github.com/spf13/hugo/releases

Did you have success experiences with them or similar products on OpenBSD
(e.g. octopress, jekyll, etc)? What would you advice to build a static site
which should sport light but sexy template (e.g. scroll effects), multiple
pages, pictures and some media links (like embedded youtube videos, for
instance)? Use of googleforms would be a bonus.

Also, on source language: although being asciidoc present in OpenBSD,
markdown seems at the moment the "industry standard". In ports, besides
python version of markdown, I've found a really interesting C port of it,
named "discount". Do you have had any previous experience with it and would
you suggest it instead of plain python version?

Thanks

Re: syslog-ng+ELK

[BARDOU Pierre]

Hello,

I use ELK for all my system/firewall logs.
It gathers linux, windows, ASA, pflog and all appliances syslogs very well,
despite the high number of messages (actually more than 1 000 000 000/week).

You can configure logstah filtering to suit your needs.
Kibana interface is very efficient, and even gives you graphics.

I am very happy with it.

--
Cordialement,
Pierre BARDOU


-Message d'origine-
De : trondd [mailto:tro...@kagu-tsuchi.com]
Envoyé : samedi 7 mai 2016 18:02
À : Predrag Punosevac 
Cc : misc@openbsd.org
Objet : Re: syslog-ng+ELK

On Sat, May 7, 2016 12:29 am, Predrag Punosevac wrote:
> Michael Shirk wrote:
>
>> On May 23, 2015 10:42, "Predrag Punosevac" 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > 5. Finally I am open for simpler ideas. Any opinions on
>> sysutils/logfmon
>> > Is it possible to visualize on the web output from logfmon?
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > Predrag Punosevac
>> >
>>
>> There is another aspect to log analysis tools that bothers me the
>> most, why must we risk system security to review log files?
>>
>> Any of the tools that "work well" open you up to web vulnerabilities,
>> or cost money in the case of Splunk. I have not had time to work on
>> it, but I would like to create a tool that avoids all of the issues
>> of running a web service or requiring java.
>>
>> My interest is in UNIX system logs and IDS/IPS events, with full
>> packet captures. The simplest form I have used is with automated
>> processing of IDS events, firewall logs, and full pcap data as static
>> files shared on a webserver. I would be interested in a CLI log
>> viewer with ncurses, or scripted output (maybe using pipecut to
>> process data as you search for what you want in the simplest UNIX
>> way).
>>
>> --
>> Michael Shirk
>> Daemon Security, Inc.
>> http://www.daemon-security.com
>
>
> I am resurrecting this old thread I started almost a year ago in an
> attempt to learn how other OpenBSD users are managing their
> centralized logging servers. I also wanted to revisit the issues
> raised by Mr. Shirk.
>
> Namely the problem I am trying to solve seems very common. I am
> running centralized logging server (syslog-ng) an OpenBSD host. This
> server receives log files from my heterogeneous network consisting of
> OpenBSD machines (running syslogd) Red Hat machines (rsyslog), and
> FreeBSD machines running FreeBSD version of syslogd. I noticed that
> sending log files generates lots of traffic on my monitoring server in
> part due to the fact that I am recording lots of noise like
>
> last message repeated 10 times
>
> Next problem is properly rotating, archiving, and deleting monthly
> directories containing log files of all my servers. For example
> directory
>
> /var/log/syslog-ng/HOSTS/2016-05
>
> contains log files of all my servers for this month. That is not too
> useful. Storing them per day would be probably better but having fewer
> log files just for important things would be even better.
>
> Log files are useless unless some kind analytics is run on them.
> I would like to be able to do real time monitoring for anomalies using
> a daemon for. The following seems obvious anomalies:
>
> 1 . SMART errors (I am big data/machine learning guy so I want to
> replace failed HDD in timely fashion) even though SMART deamon is
> sending separate e-mail
>
> 2. failing hardware (sensors, IPMI, mcelog)
>
> 3. firewall logs
>
> 4. IDS/IPS events
>
>
>
> A daemon should be able to send me an e-mail every couple of hours
> containing as little noise as possible.
>
> So far I have found in ports the following daemons:
>
> 1. security/logsurfer (package exists only for i386 and I use amd64)
>
> 2. sysutils/logfmon (From looking at /etc/logfmon.conf it looks like
> it is written to monitor log files on the single OpenBSD machine
> running syslogd. I don't see how I could monitor entire syslog-ng
> directories)
>
> 3. I noticed that syslog daemons do not work very well as SQL
> databases as a storage backends. For example LibreNMS has the
> interface for displaying and searching (manually which makes it useless)
syslog files.
> But MariaDB has to be restarted quite frequently and on the top of it.
>
> 4. I am not sure what to think of ELK anymore. The more I learn the
> less i like it.
>
> 5. Finally I stumbled upon echofish
>
> https://echothrust.github.io/echofish/
>
> which seems to be repeating old pattern. Using SQL database as a
> backend and providing UI for searching messages (I can do that using
> grep) but no e-mail notification when troubles are found.
>
>
> What am I missing here? How do people monitor their log files in the
> real time. That would seems such an obvious topic for people who care
> about security.
>
> Predrag
>

Note: I don't centralize my logs, and don't do realtime monitoring.  I don't
have a NOC, and I'm not on call 24x7.  So most of the time, there is no one to
respond anyway.  I run a couple dozen servers hosting a handful of internal
tools.  Maybe there is something you can learn from my expe

IPv6 fragmentation woes

[Laurent CARON]

Hi,

Setup:
OpenBSD 5.9 box
Network interface: ix (Intel 1G/10G X520)

ix0: flags=18843 mtu 1500
lladdr 90:e2:ba:ba:c5:cc
priority: 0
media: Ethernet autoselect (1000baseT full-duplex,rxpause,txpause)
status: active

vlan4: flags=8843 mtu 1500
lladdr 90:e2:ba:ba:c5:cc
priority: 0
vlan: 4 parent interface: ix0
groups: vlan
status: active
inet 37.49.236.145 netmask 0xfe00 broadcast 37.49.237.255
inet6 fe80::92e2:baff:feba:c5cc%vlan4 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x12
inet6 2001:7f8:54::145 prefixlen 64

When sending a ping 6 to a destination not accepting fragmented packets, 
I experience loss with "big" (but < 1500) packets.


% ping6 -s 1234 2001:7f8:54::250

Ex:
14:03:07.959532 2001:7f8:54::145 > 2001:7f8:54::250: frag 
(0xbfb11fea:1232@0+) icmp6: echo request
14:03:07.959536 2001:7f8:54::145 > 2001:7f8:54::250: frag 
(0xbfb11fea:10@1232)

14:03:07.960179 2001:7f8:54::250 > 2001:7f8:54::145: icmp6: echo reply

IPv4 however is fine (as IPv6 with ping -s $SIZE with $SIZE <= 1232

Do you guys have any idea about it ?

Thanks

Re: your mail

[Paul Suh]

Bah, humbug! TECO Rulez! 


> On May 17, 2016, at 5:47 AM, Roderick  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 16 May 2016, 1 9 wrote:
> 
>> What editor? vim or emacs? what is the reason?

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which 
had a name of smime.p7s]

Re:

[lists]

Mon, 16 May 2016 10:47:02 + 1 9 
> What editor? vim or emacs? what is the reason?

You can NOT tell or ask which one, people have different minds.
You will use what you like, and NOT tell others what they like.

If you want to feel at home with UNIX and OpenBSD, it's recommended you
make acquaintance with several classes of line, stream and text editors
(and possibly hex editors) both in their minimal and complete versions.

Several text editors live in the OpenBSD operating system base:

ed - line editor
[http://man.openbsd.org/ed]

sed - stream editor
[http://man.openbsd.org/sed]

ex, vi, view - text editors
[http://man.openbsd.org/vi]

mg - emacs-like text editor
[http://man.openbsd.org/mg]

xedit - simple X text editor
[http://man.openbsd.org/xedit]

Much more text editors are install ready from OpenBSD packages & ports:

[http://openports.se/editors/]
[http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/ports/editors/]

Brief guide for installing additional software on OpenBSD:

Packages and Ports
[http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq15.html]

Porter's Handbook
[http://www.openbsd.org/faq/ports/]

Other text editors for general information are listed here:

List of text editors (incomplete)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_text_editors]

List of text editors (less than complete)
[http://texteditors.org/]

Editor war
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editor_war]

OpenBSD has mailing lists details netiquette here:

[http://www.openbsd.org/mail.html]

There is a rough guide for following netiquette for other resources:

Ask Questions The Smart Way
[http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]

Do your homework, and follow what people told you in this thread.

Re: Suggestion: new webpage for openbsd.org

[Edgar Pettijohn]

It definitely looks better on my iPhone.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 17, 2016, at 2:11 AM, Joakim Frostegård
 wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I’ve made a responsive new webpage replacement for the
> in my opinion somewhat aged openbsd.org .
>
> It’s available at http://greatest-ape.github.io/openbsd-site/public_html/
> 
> with the repo at https://github.com/greatest-ape/openbsd-site
>  .
>
> The idea is to replace index.html but for all other pages just
> replace the stylesheets. In so far, I’ve included a few other
> pages, including plat.html, goals.html and alpha.html.
>
> I’ve tried to keep the page without bells and whistles, that is:
> * Just static HTML and CSS
> * No frameworks
> * No javascript
> * Minimalist design
>
> though I have included the Apache 2-licensed Open Sans
> from Google Fonts. If you like the page, I guess we could
> build our own font instead of using the google repository.
>
> Is this the right place to post this? Are you (the openbsd devs)
> interested in this at all?
>
> If yes, we would also need to make sure that the creator of
> the nice openbsd logo included is happy with us using it for
> the webpage. Apart from that, I would be happy to license
> my work under BSD, MIT or whatever you want.
>
> Cheers
> Joakim

Re: Suggestion: new webpage for openbsd.org

[bytevolcano]

The reason the OpenBSD site hasn't changed for years, aka. "aged", is
because there is no need to change just for change's sake.
A lot of problems in this world are caused by the young generation
being taught to "ALWAYS IMPLEMENT CHANGE!" by new-agey college
professors and teachers.

In fact, learning from experience seems to be a mortal sin these days
with technology.

I am not looking forward to the future at all; next up, let's demolish
the Colosseum and build it with modern materials and technology. While
we're at it, we may as well do the same with the Leaning Tower of Pisa.

The OpenBSD site in its current form seems to serve the content in a
well-structured, well-organised manner.

So, as vintage as the OpenBSD site may be, if it ain't broke, don't
fix it. ;)


On Tue, 17 May 2016 09:11:44 +0200
Joakim Frostegård  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I’ve made a responsive new webpage replacement for the
> in my opinion somewhat aged openbsd.org .
>
> It’s available at
> http://greatest-ape.github.io/openbsd-site/public_html/
>  with the
> repo at https://github.com/greatest-ape/openbsd-site
>  .
>
> The idea is to replace index.html but for all other pages just
> replace the stylesheets. In so far, I’ve included a few other
> pages, including plat.html, goals.html and alpha.html.
>
> I’ve tried to keep the page without bells and whistles, that is:
> * Just static HTML and CSS
> * No frameworks
> * No javascript
> * Minimalist design
>
> though I have included the Apache 2-licensed Open Sans
> from Google Fonts. If you like the page, I guess we could
> build our own font instead of using the google repository.
>
> Is this the right place to post this? Are you (the openbsd devs)
> interested in this at all?
>
> If yes, we would also need to make sure that the creator of
> the nice openbsd logo included is happy with us using it for
> the webpage. Apart from that, I would be happy to license
> my work under BSD, MIT or whatever you want.
>
> Cheers
> Joakim

Re: Suggestion: new webpage for openbsd.org

[ludovic coues]

2016-05-17 9:11 GMT+02:00 Joakim Frostegård :
> Hi,
>
> I’ve made a responsive new webpage replacement for the
> in my opinion somewhat aged openbsd.org .
>
> It’s available at http://greatest-ape.github.io/openbsd-site/public_html/
> 
> with the repo at https://github.com/greatest-ape/openbsd-site
>  .
>
> The idea is to replace index.html but for all other pages just
> replace the stylesheets. In so far, I’ve included a few other
> pages, including plat.html, goals.html and alpha.html.
>
> I’ve tried to keep the page without bells and whistles, that is:
> * Just static HTML and CSS
> * No frameworks
> * No javascript
> * Minimalist design
>
> though I have included the Apache 2-licensed Open Sans
> from Google Fonts. If you like the page, I guess we could
> build our own font instead of using the google repository.
>
> Is this the right place to post this? Are you (the openbsd devs)
> interested in this at all?
>
> If yes, we would also need to make sure that the creator of
> the nice openbsd logo included is happy with us using it for
> the webpage. Apart from that, I would be happy to license
> my work under BSD, MIT or whatever you want.
>
> Cheers
> Joakim
>

https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/
https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/visual-audio-contrast-contrast.htm
l
http://leaverou.github.io/contrast-ratio/#%23dcb454-on-white

If you see what I mean...

--

Cordialement, Coues Ludovic
+336 148 743 42

Re: your mail

[Roderick]

On Mon, 16 May 2016, 1 9 wrote:


What editor? vim or emacs? what is the reason?


What editor? ed
Why? Ed is the standard text editor.

Every other decision is a personal choice, a matter of taste.

Some years ago this was clear with "man ed":

--

ED(1)

NAME
   ed - text editor

SYNOPSIS
   ed [ - ] [ name ]

DESCRIPTION
   Ed is the standard text editor.

---

This was also my continous experience with SunOS when it served
me an editor like doing "~e" in "mail" program (standard environment:
EDITOR=ed, VISUAL=vi).

OpenBSD sets EDITOR to vi, perhaps it is a new standard, although
"man vi" gives no clue.

Rodrigo.

Re:

[Ruslanas Gžibovskis]

I prefer MSDOS edit, or cat, cause I do not cook dogs well :),

If formatting needed, then I use cowsay :) or cowthink, it does formatting.

yes, sed -i is ok, but I think awk, would do a little bit better (today)...

Also python is quite good editor...

On 17 May 2016 at 02:02,  wrote:

> On Mon, 16 May 2016 10:47:02 +
> 1 9  wrote:
>
> > What editor? vim or emacs? what is the reason?
>
> MS-DOS EDLIN.
>
>


--
Ruslanas Gžibovskis
+370 6030 7030

Re: Suggestion: new webpage for openbsd.org

[Gilles Chehade]

On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 09:11:44AM +0200, Joakim Frosteg??rd wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I???ve made a responsive new webpage replacement for the
> in my opinion somewhat aged openbsd.org .
> 
> It???s available at http://greatest-ape.github.io/openbsd-site/public_html/
> 
> with the repo at https://github.com/greatest-ape/openbsd-site
>  .
> 
> The idea is to replace index.html but for all other pages just
> replace the stylesheets. In so far, I???ve included a few other
> pages, including plat.html, goals.html and alpha.html.
> 
> I???ve tried to keep the page without bells and whistles, that is:
> * Just static HTML and CSS
> * No frameworks
> * No javascript
> * Minimalist design
> 
> though I have included the Apache 2-licensed Open Sans
> from Google Fonts. If you like the page, I guess we could
> build our own font instead of using the google repository.
> 
> Is this the right place to post this? Are you (the openbsd devs)
> interested in this at all?
> 
> If yes, we would also need to make sure that the creator of
> the nice openbsd logo included is happy with us using it for
> the webpage. Apart from that, I would be happy to license
> my work under BSD, MIT or whatever you want.
> 

I don't know if it's of any interest for openbsd.org, but I would not be
opposed to use this for opensmtpd.org :-p

-- 
Gilles Chehade

https://www.poolp.org  @poolpOrg

Re: Suggestion: new webpage for openbsd.org

[Marko Cupać]

On Tue, 17 May 2016 09:23:26 +0100
Fred  wrote:

> I do not see how this is improving the life of the developers who are
> doing a fantastic job building a great operating system.

What about improving the life of admins and users who are doing a
fantastic job with help of a great operating system?

That being said, i like current page better :)
--
Before enlightenment - chop wood, draw water.
After  enlightenment - chop wood, draw water.

Marko Cupać
https://www.mimar.rs/

Re: Suggestion: new webpage for openbsd.org

[Fred]

On 05/17/16 08:11, Joakim Frostegård wrote:

Hi,

I’ve made a responsive new webpage replacement for the
in my opinion somewhat aged openbsd.org .

It’s available at http://greatest-ape.github.io/openbsd-site/public_html/

with the repo at https://github.com/greatest-ape/openbsd-site
 .

The idea is to replace index.html but for all other pages just
replace the stylesheets. In so far, I’ve included a few other
pages, including plat.html, goals.html and alpha.html.

I’ve tried to keep the page without bells and whistles, that is:
* Just static HTML and CSS
* No frameworks
* No javascript
* Minimalist design

though I have included the Apache 2-licensed Open Sans
from Google Fonts. If you like the page, I guess we could
build our own font instead of using the google repository.

Is this the right place to post this? Are you (the openbsd devs)
interested in this at all?

If yes, we would also need to make sure that the creator of
the nice openbsd logo included is happy with us using it for
the webpage. Apart from that, I would be happy to license
my work under BSD, MIT or whatever you want.

Cheers
Joakim



This gets raised on the mailing list at regular intervals - if you 
search the archives.  I do not see how this is improving the life of the 
developers who are doing a fantastic job building a great operating system.


The OpenBSD website has always been function over fashion - and accuracy 
over bling.


The OpenBSD's prefered licence wording can be found at:

http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/share/misc/license.template?rev=HEAD

Contributions are prefered as diff's against OpenBSD's cvs.

hth

Fred

PS Your site is currently not an improvement on the current site 
according to:


https://developers.google.com/speed/pagespeed/insights/?url=greatest-ape.github.io%2Fopenbsd-site%2Fpublic_html%2F&tab=desktop

and

http://wave.webaim.org/report#/http://greatest-ape.github.io/openbsd-site/public_html/

vi vs emacs, which one makes me look more smart in front of my friends?

[trebol55555]

// mg(1)
//
// […] It is compatible with emacs because
// there shouldn't be any reason to learn more editor types than emacs or
//  vi(1).
//
// Where is the troll, where is the silly troll?

The sarcasm doesn't work good in an email, so:

- Use the editor you like, editors war is the most retarded discussion you can 
have in your life.

- You can't make such a statement in a man page, and then call a troll to 
someone who ask which one is better.

vi vs emacs, which one makes me look more smart in front of my friends?

[trebol55555]

// mg(1)
//
// […] It is compatible with emacs because
// there shouldn't be any reason to learn more editor types than emacs or
// vi(1).
// 
// Where is the troll, where is the silly troll?

Well, the sarcasm doesn't work good in a mail, so:

- Use the editor that you like, editors war is the most retarded discussion you 
can have in your life.

- You can't make such a statement in a man page, and then call a troll to 
someone who ask which one is better.

Suggestion: new webpage for openbsd.org

[Joakim Frostegård]

Hi,

I’ve made a responsive new webpage replacement for the
in my opinion somewhat aged openbsd.org .

It’s available at http://greatest-ape.github.io/openbsd-site/public_html/

with the repo at https://github.com/greatest-ape/openbsd-site
 .

The idea is to replace index.html but for all other pages just
replace the stylesheets. In so far, I’ve included a few other
pages, including plat.html, goals.html and alpha.html.

I’ve tried to keep the page without bells and whistles, that is:
* Just static HTML and CSS
* No frameworks
* No javascript
* Minimalist design

though I have included the Apache 2-licensed Open Sans
from Google Fonts. If you like the page, I guess we could
build our own font instead of using the google repository.

Is this the right place to post this? Are you (the openbsd devs)
interested in this at all?

If yes, we would also need to make sure that the creator of
the nice openbsd logo included is happy with us using it for
the webpage. Apart from that, I would be happy to license
my work under BSD, MIT or whatever you want.

Cheers
Joakim