Re: Low priority or real coders
On Fri, Sep 15, 2006 at 11:09:03AM -0700, Chris Cappuccio wrote: Highlighting makes source code impossible to read to someone who isn't used to it. I'm really perplexed about how people think that having each line of source code in six different colors somehow makes things clearer. That's a pretty broad generalization, and pretty hard to defend - as others have pointed out, these things are all highly dependent on the person and the environment. Anyway, I did have something (small) to add to the thread: I sometimes like to do $ env TERM=vt220 emacs -nw somefile.c so that the highlighting is done only with bold type and background/foreground reversal. It makes things easier for me to pick out quickly, but it doesn't leave me feeling illiterate when I see code that isn't highlighted. Just my $0.02. -- Benjamin Collins [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
boot: bad unit number
When I boot one of my boxen up, it fails to boot. As soon as it hits hd0, I see this: Using drive 0, partition 3. Loading... ERR M A recent (2005) thread on marc suggested just doing another install from CD to fix this (as well as installing on a new disk on a different computer, and then swapping to see if it works, which I haven't done yet). Booting to a CD of the 9/1/2006 snapshot: probing: pc0 com0 com1 apm mem[640K 766M a20=on] disk: fd0 hd0+ Bad unit number OpenBSD/i386 BOOT 2.10 Bad unit number open (hd0a:/etc/boot.conf): bad drive number boot Trying to manually boot to hd0a:/bsd causes the message to repeat. Does Bad unit number mean anything specific, or is it a bail-out message? boot machine diskinfo DiskBIOS# TypeCylsHeads SecsFlags Checksum fd0 0x0 *none* 80 2 18 0x4 0x0 hd0 0x80label 1024255 63 0x2 0xd7789676 Since I didn't really know of a good way to debug this, I thought booting to other OS install CDs might be informative. FreeBSD 5.1 says this: acpi0: AMD2P AWRDACPI on motherboard panic: AcpiOsDerivePciId unable to initialize pci bus Linux: ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14 SiI3112 Serial ATA: IDE controller at PCI slot :02:06.0 SiI3112 Serial ATA: chipset revision 2 SiI3112 Serial ATA: 100% native mode on irq 18 ide2: MMIO-DMA , BIOS settings: hde:pio, hdb:DMA ide3: MMIO-DMA , BIOS settings: hdg:pio, hdh:pio hde: WDC WD1200JD-00HBB0, ATA DISK drive ide2 at 0xf287a080-0xf287a087,0xf287a08a on irq 18 hdg: no response (status = 0xfe), resetting drive hdg: no response (status = 0xfe) hdg: no response (status = 0xfe), resetting drive hdg: no response (status = 0xfe) hde: max request size: 64KiB hde: 234441648 sectors (120034 MB) w/8192KiB Cache, CHS=16383/255/63 /dev/ide/host2/bus0/target0/lun0: p4 hdb: ATAPI 32X CD-ROM drive ... ... ... and it goes on to boot to a gentoo livecd just fine (ok, it didn't like my radeon card, but I don't care.). After getting a shell prompt, I looked at the dmesg (in Linux, remember), and in there it had a couple lines about ACPI: PCI: Using ACPI for IRQ routing PCI: if you experience problems, try using option 'pci=noacpi' or even 'acpi=off' Still later, ... BIOS failed to enable PCI standards compliance, fixing this error ... the stuff from above ... Between Linux and FreeBSD, it seems to be ACPI/PCI related, but I'm not sure how. The fact that the disk is found at hde in Linux above seems odd to me, because it's the only disk other than the CD-ROM (not to mention that it seems to really want to find an 'hdg'). Anyway, I hope the above information will help someone help me :-). My hardware configuration hasn't changed in ages, and I've been running -current on this box since MP rolled out. My apologies for not providing a dmesg. I don't have one lying around and can't get a fresh one. -- Benjamin Collins [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: preferred hardware platform
On Fri, Sep 08, 2006 at 08:49:06PM +0200, Joachim Schipper wrote: And seriously, how does one manage to fill a TB of data? Quite easily, if you do daily, weekly, and monthly backups. My group at work doesn't do daily, but we do something like MWF, weekly, monthly, with tapes done weekly and kept up to 6 months, and we fill the better part of a 2TB raid (albeit we have about 25+ people in the mix). In a development environment in which one might have multiple working copies of a large repository (such as OpenBSD's src), all those backups add up, and fast. -- Benjamin Collins [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Intel 965 driver
Any thoughts on the recently opened Intel 965 graphics controller driver? I have only glanced at this and saw that the software is licensed MIT and GPL2 and thought this might be of interest to the list, since the article that made me aware of it claimed it's the first officially open-sourced graphics driver. BTW, the same article also passed on rumors that AMD is considering opening some chunks of the ATI drivers. bc -- Benjamin Collins
Re: News From HiFn
On Fri, Jun 30, 2006 at 02:27:53PM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote: On 6/30/06, Breen Ouellette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PS - Someone who participates in editing vendorwatch.org might want to update the Hifn status page. Done, but I've left their ranking as unfriendly on the front page because they've given no apology and they still seem to be shady. If someone could add the links to the slashdot/newsforge/whereverelse stories that would be helpful though. It seems to me that if people are going to make a huge fuss about a company's documentation not being open enough or not available or what have you, and then following the fuss, they make their documentation available, they should at a minimum be considered somewhat friendly. Wasn't the whole point of all the back-and-forth about the documentation? Now that we can get the docs, who cares if they don't apologize? Do businesses now have to be careful not to hurt our feelings in order to be considered friendly? Do we want apologies and proof of non-shadiness, or do we want documentation to be made available? This is also not to mention that being pig-headed about the matter is a great way to prevent other companies from complying with requests for documentation - if a business thinks we're going to demand it kiss our collective ass before we give it credit for cooperating, they're simply not going to cooperate. P.S. - I just read J.C.'s reply along these lines, and this is intended to be in the same vein. bc -- Benjamin Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: pkg_add -u not working
On Sun, Jun 18, 2006 at 01:43:44PM +0200, Marc Espie wrote: You'd better really start explaining what you are doing, and what you expect the tools to do... so far, you are not making any kind of point. pkg_add -ui does exactly what it is supposed to at this point in time. If it doesn't work for you, it's probably because there's something you have completely not understood... Let me see chime in here, because I've been wondering about this as well. What I expect the tool to do if I invoke it like $ sudo pkg_add -u is to do this (from pkg_add(1)): If no pkgname is given, pkg_add will update all installed packages. What actually happens after the above invocation is what Sebastian pointed out - updatable package names are printed, but nothing is actually updated. # pkg_add -uv Candidates for updating atk-1.10.1 - atk-1.10.3p1 Candidates for updating glib2-2.6.4 - glib2-2.8.4 Looking for updates: complete bc [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: pkg_add -u not working
On Tue, Jun 20, 2006 at 09:56:17AM -0500, Will Maier wrote: On Tue, Jun 20, 2006 at 09:29:08AM -0500, Benjamin Collins wrote: What actually happens after the above invocation is what Sebastian pointed out - updatable package names are printed, but nothing is actually updated. And you're running 3.9 or -current? I've got one machine running -current, and two others running 3.9-stable. The behavior is the same on all three. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: b/g wifi card on wi list?
On Fri, Jun 09, 2006 at 09:35:17AM +0200, Toni Mueller wrote: Ugh. WHY do they do this? Naively, I would assume that producing a larger quantity of the same thing (which works) should be cheaper than supporting an ever-changing zoo of devices, also for them? But then I may have overlooked something significant. My guess (based on no more knowledge than anyone else on this list has) is that the vendors are thrift shoppers. They get some special discount from different manufacturers at different times, and they don't care that the chips are slightly different because they have the full specs of the hardware they buy and the sources to their Windows-only drivers, which are easy to modify in support of the various bits of hardware. It might even be a self-perpetuating thing too - consider that they buy a metric ton of 802.11g chips at some discount price (say US $5/chip). Their business model suddenly becomes predicated on being able to get chips at that price for all eternity. When those chips are used up and the manufacturer is no longer offering the discount (now they want $7/chip), they are then forced to shop around for a manufacturer that will sell them chips for the $5 price. Again, this is just a guess. I have no special knowledge of the workings of such things. bc [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: b/g wifi card on wi list?
On Fri, Jun 09, 2006 at 09:35:17AM +0200, Toni Mueller wrote: Ugh. WHY do they do this? Naively, I would assume that producing a larger quantity of the same thing (which works) should be cheaper than supporting an ever-changing zoo of devices, also for them? But then I may have overlooked something significant. My guess (based on no more knowledge than anyone else on this list has) is that the vendors are thrift shoppers. They get some special discount from different manufacturers at different times, and they don't care that the chips are slightly different because they have the full specs of the hardware they buy and the sources to their Windows-only drivers, which are easy to modify in support of the various bits of hardware. It might even be a self-perpetuating thing too - consider that they buy a metric ton of 802.11g chips at some discount price (say US $5/chip). Their business model suddenly becomes predicated on being able to get chips at that price for all eternity. When those chips are used up and the manufacturer is no longer offering the discount, they are then forced to shop around for a manufacturer that will sell them chips for the same price. Again, this is just a guess. I have no special knowledge of the workings of such things. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: openbsd and the money [non-profit]
On Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 12:00:56PM -0700, Theo de Raadt wrote: There are very good reasons for not becoming a non-profit. Accounting wise it would NOT help the project. Non-profits with such a small amount of money are severely limited in what they can do. This question has been answered at least 20 times before. Now 21 times... No. 22: I thought it was worth pointing out that the Fedora project has also opted against creating a 'foundation' - some of the reasons for which also would apply to OpenBSD. https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2006-April/msg00016.html [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Airlink101 awlc3026
Anyone know what chipset is used in the awlc3026 card? It's on sale at Fry's for $8, and I wanted to get it for use in my OpenBSD laptop. Even better, anyone have a dmesg with this card listed? bc -- Benjamin Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: openbsd's future plans?
On Tue, Feb 07, 2006 at 08:51:31PM -0500, Nick Holland wrote: digressed a bit (I'm sure that surprises everyone here that I'd do that), Shocked! Anyway, to folks who are wondering about SMP, all you have to do is notice how little traffic there is on smp@ and how (relatively) few commits there are that deal with smp. Writing quality SMP code is a *monumentous* task. I work for a contracts-based software shop, and if I had to bid that one, I'd bid hundreds of man-hours, if not thousands. If the core team of OpenBSD developers is 50 people, there might be 4-5 people who could concentrate all their OpenBSD efforts on this (just picking those numbers of of thin air) If it takes 5000 man-hours to get scalable, robust SMP code written, then we're talking 25 weeks of full-time work for each of those 5 people. I don't know about you guys, but I can't take 25 weeks off from work, and my spare time each week adds up to about to *maybe* 20-25 hours, and that's *everything*. If I were to say ok, I'll contribute 1000 hours, and I totally ignored my wife and kids, my parents, her parents, all my friends, community activites, etc., I'd be doing nothing but sleeping, working my paid job, and working OpenBSD for 40-50 weeks. It would take a year to get what folks are asking for --- and that's assuming 4 other people doing exactly the same thing. My estimates could be off, but I think the ballpark is good enough to get the point across. Even if I'm off by 2x, that's still 6 months of 5 people doing *nothing else* but OpenBSD. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: NYCBUG dmesg tracker
On Thu, Jan 26, 2006 at 10:17:39AM -0500, Will H. Backman wrote: For those of you who are sending dmesg output to the developers, you may also want to post your dmesg to the New York City BSD Users Group dmesg tracker. From their site: Upload your dmesg so others can see your kernel boot messages and related troubleshooting details. Each dmesg is searchable for particular hardware, error messages, etc. and can help others as a reference for their BSD system. The filter provided looks only in the dmesg and works best with single word searches. http://www.nycbug.org/index.php?NAV=dmesgd Super cool site. This brings a question to mind: is there a reason that no useful sites like this are linked to the main site (at least, none that I found)? [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: Trying to get rtw card to work: reset failed
On Fri, Jan 06, 2006 at 04:43:35PM -0600, Peter Drauden wrote: Yes - I have used the card with Linux for some time using ndiswrapper. Are you sure this card is in a working state? Curious. In my dmesg, when my MA521 is recognized, it prints a manufacturer string along the lines of NETGEAR MA521 802., , , followed by: ver F, radio SA2400A, amp SA2411, address ... Are you sure that yours is actually an MA521? bc -- Benjamin Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'Broadly speaking, the short words are the best, and the old words best of all.' --- Sir Winston Churchill [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: OpenBSD VMWare image too popular
On Thu, Jan 05, 2006 at 01:41:50PM -0500, Will H. Backman wrote: I've just crossed the 10,000 downloads of the OpenBSD VMWare image since I posted it a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, it is a little too popular for the people providing my bandwidth. Is anyone else willing to host the file? I'll just point my page to you. You would be looking at about a terabyte a month of transfer if it keeps going at this rate. If it's that popular, then why not stop distributing the disk file, and instead distribute a script and a static tool that users could run to create a disk file? IIRC, QEMU has a tool that can create a vmware disk. Just a thought. Keep up the good work. bc -- Benjamin Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'Broadly speaking, the short words are the best, and the old words best of all.' --- Sir Winston Churchill [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: learning to code - suggestions needed
On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 05:06:02PM -0600, L. V. Lammert wrote: One thing you will *NOT* find in any college courses are system-level coding principles practices. OS code is written in C, which is FAR different than 'application level' coding taught in the vast majority of courses. L.V. - the school I went to did have a small handful of courses that did include labs/assignments/projects that included this type of programming. Most of the curriculum was based on more abstract notions, but there are some systems-oriented courses. The undergraduate OS class I took, for example, invovled writing a memory manager and a shell. The graduate OS class I took included a write your own OS project. We also had a compiler course that involved writing your own compiler, etc, etc. Also: 1) Read code 2) Play with code [snip] et seq. I think you get the idea. The only way to write OS code is to basically teach yourself. While your higher-ed experience may have been different than mine, I totally agree that writing and reading code is the best thing you can do to learn. I might add that one thing that has helped me to figure out what code to read and what to write is to identify something *I* would like to see implemented, and try to implement it myself. bc -- Benjamin Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'Broadly speaking, the short words are the best, and the old words best of all.' --- Sir Winston Churchill [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: theo (fwd)
On Fri, Dec 02, 2005 at 04:21:05PM +1100, Ioan Nemes wrote: She went her anger, just leave it! Theo doesn't need advocates to reply - if he wants too! Errare humanum est, perseverare autem diabolicum! Ioan Stilus email est humanus , tamen caput capitis - stipes est diabolical. and Quid quid latine dictum sit, altum videtur bc -- Benjamin Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'Broadly speaking, the short words are the best, and the old words best of all.' --- Sir Winston Churchill
Re: latin pedants (was theo fwd)
On Fri, Dec 02, 2005 at 06:47:11PM -0500, Chris Zakelj wrote: scorch wrote: Errare humanum est, perseverare autem diabolicum! Stilus email est humanus , tamen caput capitis - stipes est diabolical. To err is human, but to top-post is diabolical. and Quid quid latine dictum sit, altum videtur Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound. usque ad mortem bibendum :-) Drink until you die. Any hope of getting a translation? Having gone to a public school, I was never indoctrinated with latin. Me neither :-) bc -- Benjamin Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'Broadly speaking, the short words are the best, and the old words best of all.' --- Sir Winston Churchill
Re: HOTO Write bad documentation
On Sat, Nov 26, 2005 at 07:32:58PM -0600, J Moore wrote: On Sun, Nov 27, 2005 at 01:21:47AM +0100, the unit calling itself frantisek holop wrote: and i have a feeling they don't agree that openbsd must have debian-ugly pages made by c hackers in 1995 who hate html and think design is for pussies. Ha! I like that line :) ...actually, I love it! Right on, dude! Drop the hammer on that Grinch :) Jay Makes me think debian = butt bc -- Benjamin Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur - Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound
Re: Cards/chips supporting hostap mode
On Tue, Oct 11, 2005 at 07:36:23PM +0200, Matthias Kilian wrote: On Tue, Oct 11, 2005 at 10:16:40AM -0700, Steve B wrote: I'm trying to find what wireless PCI cards or chipsets support hostap mode. The Prism 2/2.5/3 is referenced everywhere. Is that that the only one or do any of the others such as Atheros support hostap mode? ral(4) and ural(4) should support hostap, too. Ciao, Kili It seems that rtw(4) does also. bc -- Benjamin Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'Broadly speaking, the short words are the best, and the old words best of all.' --- Sir Winston Churchill [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: Non Developers allowed to ask questions ?
On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 10:07:47AM -0600, Ken Gunderson wrote: On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:06:11 +0100 Constantine A. Murenin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 19/10/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is a legitimate use for top posting. Deletion and/or answer of message in 10 to 15 seconds or less. Nonsense. Just because your MS Outlook does not support or is not configured to support bottom-posting, doesn't mean that you should find some invalid excuses for top-posting. With a sig like mine I coudln't resist a resounding me too on this one;-) My sig concisely demonstrates in a nutshell why top posting is problematic, if not an all out pita. FWIW, there's a little program called QuoteFix that will make Outlook quote the email you're replying to and put the cursor and sig underneath. Works for me when I'm at work. bc -- Benjamin Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'Broadly speaking, the short words are the best, and the old words best of all.' --- Sir Winston Churchill [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: Guruness (was the bug report thread)
On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 10:14:19PM -0600, Wolfpaw - Dale Corse wrote: On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 09:14:09PM -0600, Wolfpaw - Dale Corse wrote: Can you please enlighten me as to how this is a web based system? It looks to me like a page that says.. Use the UNIX command. This is not what I was suggesting. http://openbsd.rt.fm/query-pr.html Nice :) See.. This is what I'm talking about - perhaps it Should be linked off the main site too? (Or is it, and I Can't read?) Apparently not. See main page, left column, link text Bug Tracking. Where is the submission system (web based)? -D man sendbug(1). Browser!=web. bc -- Benjamin Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'Broadly speaking, the short words are the best, and the old words best of all.' --- Sir Winston Churchill [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: Guruness (was the bug report thread)
On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 09:14:09PM -0600, Wolfpaw - Dale Corse wrote: Can you please enlighten me as to how this is a web based system? It looks to me like a page that says.. Use the UNIX command. This is not what I was suggesting. http://openbsd.rt.fm/query-pr.html bc -- Benjamin Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'Broadly speaking, the short words are the best, and the old words best of all.' --- Sir Winston Churchill [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
