Re: time_t
The universe didn't start in 1970 On Monday, October 5, 2020, Roderick wrote: > > The result of time() has type time_t and we know what kind of number > goes there: seconds since 0 hours, 0 minutes, 0 seconds, January 1, > 1970, Coordinated Universal Time. > > In my FreeBSD running on a 64 bit processor this type is: int (__32_t). > It considers this size enough for above information. > > In my OpenBSD running on a 32 bit processor this type is: long long > (__64_t). > > None of both has an unsigned type, although time moves forward > (more or less fast!!!). > > Is there a reason for this discrepancy? Is there no standard for the > size of time_t? > > And what does mean the types with __? I find it so confusing. :) > > Rod. > > --
Re: Audio Boost for Sndio
On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 07:47:16AM -0700, Артур Истомин wrote: On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 06:01:17AM -0700, tekk wrote: I'm having a bit of trouble with audio on my 5.7 box (Thinkpad T430.) Audio is just a bit too quiet to be comfortable even when I have everything maxed out. I had a similar problem on Linux and I was able to create a boost device to feed audio through before it went to the speakers, could I do the same in OpenBSD? I've thrown in dmesg as well as mixerctl and audioctl output, not sure if anything else is needed. I remember reading that there was already some boost by default as well, but it defaulted to being maxed for me so it's not much help. I have the same troubles (with the same hardware). In most cases this is due to sound channels of movie clip - 6 or more channels. 2 channels' movies almost always playing perfect for me. Here is my solution for mplayer: mplayer -channels 6 -af pan=2:1:0:0:1:1:0:0:1:1.3:1.3:1:1 (see http://hddaudio.net/viewtopic.php?pid=105601#p105601 for more info) If it does not help, try to enable software mixer: mplayer -softvol -softvol-max 1000 (but it damage sound when player's volume is max) If you will find another solution for OpenBSD, please email me. I'm certain it's not an issue of sound channels since most of what I'm using sound for is stereo videos on youtube. I'll give the -softvol parameter a shot next time I'm on OpenBSD; hopefully mpv has it since it's an mplayer fork, but an actual way to fix this would be ideal; the fact that my mix device is capping out at 174 rather than 255 is very suspicious to me. Do you actually experience the same? When you run mixerctl it should say something like inputs.mix-0-2: 174,174 when you have your volume turned all the way up. I don't remember the device name exactly but it's along those lines.
Re: Audio Boost for Sndio
On 07/11/2015 08:23 AM, Jan Stary wrote:
I've tried playing with inputs.dac-0:1 and other values since and
the inputs.dac-* actually *do* max out at 174 for me.
So e.g. mixerctl -v inputs.dac-0:1=255 sets it to 174,174?
Exactly. inputs.dac-{0:1,2:3}=$value_above_174 simply sets it to 174.
Re: Audio Boost for Sndio
On 07/11/2015 08:24 AM, Jan Stary wrote: On Jul 10 19:15:31, h...@stare.cz wrote: On Jul 10 06:01:17, t...@parlementum.net wrote: I'm having a bit of trouble with audio on my 5.7 box (Thinkpad T430.) Audio is just a bit too quiet to be comfortable even when I have everything maxed out. I had a similar problem on Linux Are you sure the audio hardware is actually capable of playing louder than it does? How exactly are you playing what? I'm pretty sure. I mainly see it when playing youtube videos via mpv, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3IidGmVLo4 was giving me trouble for example. I know for sure that the hardware is capable of being much louder since I'm able to play it at a good volume in Windows and Linux (both Pulseaudio and ALSA, after I add a boost device to ALSA.)
Re: Audio Boost for Sndio
On 07/11/2015 12:24 PM, Andy Bradford wrote:
Thus said tekk on Sat, 11 Jul 2015 08:30:00 -0700:
So e.g. mixerctl -v inputs.dac-0:1=255 sets it to 174,174?
Exactly. inputs.dac-{0:1,2:3}=$value_above_174 simply sets it to 174.
It would be more helpful if instead of describing the problem that you
would just copy/paste the result of running the command and report that
in an email.
For example:
$ mixerctl -v record.adc-0:1=255
record.adc-0:1: 120,120 - 248,248
Thanks,
Andy
I probably would've, but I'm in Linux right now with some backups
running. I should be a bit more helpful once I'm able to reboot.
Re: Audio Boost for Sndio
On 07/11/15 15:49, Jan Stary wrote: On Jul 11 08:30:37, t...@parlementum.net wrote: On 07/11/2015 08:24 AM, Jan Stary wrote: On Jul 10 19:15:31, h...@stare.cz wrote: On Jul 10 06:01:17, t...@parlementum.net wrote: I'm having a bit of trouble with audio on my 5.7 box (Thinkpad T430.) Audio is just a bit too quiet to be comfortable even when I have everything maxed out. I had a similar problem on Linux Are you sure the audio hardware is actually capable of playing louder than it does? How exactly are you playing what? I'm pretty sure. I mainly see it when playing youtube videos ^^ Mainly. So not always? Do you experience this low volume when playing just regular audio? For example, if you have sox installed, try playing 'play -n synth 10 sin 220' (which is a saturated sin wave). If the source is loud enough I can hear it. When volume is maxed out the sine wave is certainly audible, but I wouldn't call it loud. Playing around with the value of outputs.master while the wave is actually running showed something odd though: levels above 175 don't matter. I guess this is related to the inputs stopping at 174 (inputs.dac-0:1=174,174) via mpv https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3IidGmVLo4 was giving me trouble for example. mpv (or any other player, for that matter) can have its own volume settings. If these are set low, maxing out outputs.master will not help you much. So how is mpv's volume set during this playback? mpv's volume is at 100% I know for sure that the hardware is capable of being much louder since I'm able to play it at a good volume in Windows and Linux (both Pulseaudio and ALSA, after I add a boost device to ALSA.) I don't know what an ALSA boost device is, but the name suggests some kind of amplification. Yes, it's meant to increase the volume of sounds before they actually reach the sound card. I need it when using ALSA but not when using Pulseaudio. The same issue may be underlying Linux ALSA though. Maybe some weird vendor thing where the sound card is too quiet when you're not using the manufacturer's special Windows driver? I've noticed that under Windows the laptop can get *really* loud if you set the volume high. Sorry it took so long, lots of large files over a slow network.
Audio Boost for Sndio
I'm having a bit of trouble with audio on my 5.7 box (Thinkpad T430.) Audio is just a bit too quiet to be comfortable even when I have everything maxed out. I had a similar problem on Linux and I was able to create a boost device to feed audio through before it went to the speakers, could I do the same in OpenBSD? I've thrown in dmesg as well as mixerctl and audioctl output, not sure if anything else is needed. I remember reading that there was already some boost by default as well, but it defaulted to being maxed for me so it's not much help. OpenBSD 5.7-stable (GENERIC) #0: Tue Jun 30 00:19:46 EDT 2015 r...@hetalia.tekk.in:/usr/src/sys/arch/amd64/compile/GENERIC real mem = 8237068288 (7855MB) avail mem = 8013918208 (7642MB) mpath0 at root scsibus0 at mpath0: 256 targets mainbus0 at root bios0 at mainbus0: SMBIOS rev. 2.7 @ 0xdae9c000 (69 entries) bios0: vendor LENOVO version G1ETA2WW (2.62 ) date 01/10/2014 bios0: LENOVO 2344BZU acpi0 at bios0: rev 2 acpi0: sleep states S0 S3 S4 S5 acpi0: tables DSDT FACP SLIC TCPA SSDT SSDT SSDT HPET APIC MCFG ECDT FPDT ASF! UEFI UEFI MSDM SSDT SSDT DMAR UEFI DBG2 acpi0: wakeup devices LID_(S4) SLPB(S3) IGBE(S4) EXP3(S4) XHCI(S3) EHC1(S3) EHC2(S3) HDEF(S4) acpitimer0 at acpi0: 3579545 Hz, 24 bits acpihpet0 at acpi0: 14318179 Hz acpimadt0 at acpi0 addr 0xfee0: PC-AT compat cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor) cpu0: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3320M CPU @ 2.60GHz, 1197.52 MHz cpu0: FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,POPCNT,DEADLINE,AES,XSAVE,AVX,F16C,RDRAND,NXE,LONG,LAHF,PERF,ITSC,FSGSBASE,SMEP,ERMS cpu0: 256KB 64b/line 8-way L2 cache cpu0: smt 0, core 0, package 0 mtrr: Pentium Pro MTRR support, 10 var ranges, 88 fixed ranges cpu0: apic clock running at 99MHz cpu at mainbus0: not configured cpu at mainbus0: not configured cpu at mainbus0: not configured ioapic0 at mainbus0: apid 2 pa 0xfec0, version 20, 24 pins acpimcfg0 at acpi0 addr 0xf800, bus 0-63 acpiec0 at acpi0 acpiprt0 at acpi0: bus 0 (PCI0) acpiprt1 at acpi0: bus -1 (PEG_) acpiprt2 at acpi0: bus 2 (EXP1) acpiprt3 at acpi0: bus 3 (EXP2) acpiprt4 at acpi0: bus -1 (EXP3) acpicpu0 at acpi0: C3, C2, C1, PSS acpipwrres0 at acpi0: PUBS, resource for XHCI, EHC1, EHC2 acpitz0 at acpi0: critical temperature is 200 degC acpibtn0 at acpi0: LID_ acpibtn1 at acpi0: SLPB acpibat0 at acpi0: BAT0 model 45N1107 serial 24045 type LION oem LGC acpibat1 at acpi0: BAT1 not present acpiac0 at acpi0: AC unit offline acpithinkpad0 at acpi0 cpu0: Enhanced SpeedStep 1197 MHz: speeds: 2601, 2600, 2500, 2400, 2300, 2200, 2100, 2000, 1900, 1800, 1700, 1600, 1500, 1400, 1300, 1200 MHz pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0 pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 Intel Core 3G Host rev 0x09 vga1 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 Intel HD Graphics 4000 rev 0x09 intagp at vga1 not configured inteldrm0 at vga1 drm0 at inteldrm0 inteldrm0: 1600x900 wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (std, vt100 emulation) wsdisplay0: screen 1-5 added (std, vt100 emulation) xhci0 at pci0 dev 20 function 0 Intel 7 Series xHCI rev 0x04: msi usb0 at xhci0: USB revision 3.0 uhub0 at usb0 Intel xHCI root hub rev 3.00/1.00 addr 1 Intel 7 Series MEI rev 0x04 at pci0 dev 22 function 0 not configured puc0 at pci0 dev 22 function 3 Intel 7 Series KT rev 0x04: ports: 1 com com4 at puc0 port 0 apic 2 int 19: ns16550a, 16 byte fifo com4: probed fifo depth: 0 bytes em0 at pci0 dev 25 function 0 Intel 82579LM rev 0x04: msi, address 28:d2:44:1a:f1:25 ehci0 at pci0 dev 26 function 0 Intel 7 Series USB rev 0x04: apic 2 int 16 usb1 at ehci0: USB revision 2.0 uhub1 at usb1 Intel EHCI root hub rev 2.00/1.00 addr 1 azalia0 at pci0 dev 27 function 0 Intel 7 Series HD Audio rev 0x04: msi azalia0: codecs: Realtek ALC269, Intel/0x2806, using Realtek ALC269 audio0 at azalia0 ppb0 at pci0 dev 28 function 0 Intel 7 Series PCIE rev 0xc4: msi pci1 at ppb0 bus 2 sdhc0 at pci1 dev 0 function 0 Ricoh 5U822 SD/MMC rev 0x07: apic 2 int 16 sdmmc0 at sdhc0 ppb1 at pci0 dev 28 function 1 Intel 7 Series PCIE rev 0xc4: msi pci2 at ppb1 bus 3 iwn0 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6205 rev 0x34: msi, MIMO 2T2R, MoW, address 6c:88:14:cd:ca:98 ehci1 at pci0 dev 29 function 0 Intel 7 Series USB rev 0x04: apic 2 int 23 usb2 at ehci1: USB revision 2.0 uhub2 at usb2 Intel EHCI root hub rev 2.00/1.00 addr 1 pcib0 at pci0 dev 31 function 0 Intel QM77 LPC rev 0x04 ahci0 at pci0 dev 31 function 2 Intel 7 Series AHCI rev 0x04: msi, AHCI 1.3 scsibus1 at ahci0: 32 targets sd0 at scsibus1 targ 0 lun 0: ATA, WDC WD10S12X-55J, 01.0 SCSI3 0/direct fixed naa.50014ee659a322a0 sd0: 953869MB, 512 bytes/sector, 1953525168 sectors cd0 at scsibus1 targ 1 lun 0: PLDS, DVD-RW DS8A8SH, KU54 ATAPI 5/cdrom removable ichiic0 at pci0 dev 31 function 3 Intel 7 Series SMBus rev 0x04: apic 2 int 18 iic0 at ichiic0 spdmem0 at iic0 addr 0x50:
Re: Audio Boost for Sndio
On 07/10/15 13:15, Jan Stary wrote:
Please show the output of mixerctl -av
This is hardly 'maxed out'.
Same for the other settings.
Sorry about that, I'd asked in IRC about it and was given a few devices
to try, and they didn't work. I know for sure that a couple got reset at
least (I remember setting hp_boost for example, since it was named like
something relevant.) I've tried playing with inputs.dac-0:1 and other
values since and the inputs.dac-* actually *do* max out at 174 for me.
$ mixerctl -av
inputs.dac-0:1=174,174
inputs.dac-2:3=174,174
record.adc-2:3_mute=off [ off on ]
record.adc-2:3=124,124
record.adc-0:1_mute=off [ off on ]
record.adc-0:1=124,124
inputs.mix_source=mic2,beep { mic2 beep }
inputs.mix_mic2=120,120
inputs.mix_beep=120,120
inputs.mix2_source=dac-0:1,mix { dac-0:1 mix }
inputs.mix3_source=dac-2:3,mix { dac-2:3 mix }
inputs.mic=85,85
outputs.spkr_source=mix3 [ mix2 mix3 ]
outputs.spkr_mute=off [ off on ]
outputs.spkr_eapd=on [ off on ]
outputs.hp_source=mix2 [ mix2 mix3 ]
outputs.hp_mute=off [ off on ]
outputs.hp_boost=on [ off on ]
outputs.hp_eapd=on [ off on ]
outputs.mic2_source=mix2 [ mix2 mix3 ]
outputs.mic2_mute=off [ off on ]
inputs.mic2=85,85
outputs.mic2_dir=input-vr80 [ none output input input-vr0 input-vr50
input-vr80 input-vr100 ]
record.adc-0:1_source=mic2,beep,mix,mic { mic2 beep mix mic }
record.adc-2:3_source=mic2,beep,mix { mic2 beep mix }
outputs.hp_sense=unplugged [ unplugged plugged ]
outputs.mic2_sense=unplugged [ unplugged plugged ]
outputs.spkr_muters=hp,mic2 { hp mic2 }
outputs.master=255,255
outputs.master.mute=off [ off on ]
outputs.master.slaves=dac-0:1,dac-2:3,spkr,hp { dac-0:1 dac-2:3 spkr hp
mic2 }
record.volume=124,124
record.volume.mute=off [ off on ]
record.volume.slaves=adc-2:3,adc-0:1 { adc-2:3 adc-0:1 mic mic2 }
(after some playing around)
Re: Executable signing - a proposal
It's worse than that: OpenBSD doesn't even support GPT, so there sre dependencies in the way before UEFI can start. Last year there was a GSoC which added kernel support but there's nothing in the userland. On Tue Mar 31 15:14:18 2015 Joe Crivello josephcrive...@gmail.com wrote: To prevent (in theory) various attack vectors (e.g., physical access to the disk while offline), you need to have the system in a trusted state. Somebody has already thought this through, here is the result: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface#Secure_boot Such a fully trusted, BSD-licensed OpenBSD boot chain, where I can put my own keys into the BIOS, would be nice to have. Good luck writing it ;) Secure Boot only protects the boot loader, and potentially the kernel and it's drivers *if* the boot loader implements that. Any other system file on the disk is totally unprotected, even in a OS like Windows 8+ which has implemented a fully signed boot chain (through the kernel and it's drivers). This means that even a system using Secure Boot is very easy to root with offline physical access. You actually could expand Mr. Nelson's proposal into something more interesting by starting with a Windows-style fully signed boot chain (through the kernel) and then also verifying launched binaries in the manner he suggests. This would ostensibly resist all attempts to tamper with the kernel or system binaries, even with offline physical access. However, it wouldn't protect anything else, including configuration files, which would still leave gaping holes open to the offline physical access attack. It also could not be configurable and it would need to hard code the keys, which strikes me as inelegant and inflexible. Seems like an enormous amount of effort with little return... FYI... FreeBSD is actually working on implementing Secure Boot right now, according to their website: https://wiki.freebsd.org/SecureBoot Not sure how easy it would be to port to OpenBSD once completed. AFAIK, OpenBSD doesn't even support UEFI. I doubt it will ever be possible to really protect a system from an offline physical access attack. Even if the entire system disk were protected with an authenticated cipher like AES-GCM, there are plenty of firmware based attacks that you can prep to launch as soon as the system is turned back on.
Re: emul.linux on amd64
On Tue, Sep 09, 2014 at 05:09:44PM -0700, Predrag Punosevac wrote: Unlike many OSs OpenBSD amd64 is true 64 bit operating system so even running native i386 binaries on amd64 is not possible. IIRC there was extensive discussion many years ago Predrag This isn't actually what I'm interested in. I was wondering about running 64 bit linux binaries on 64 bit openbsd, not an arch mismatch. Sorry for the delayed reply; on vacation.
emul.linux on amd64
I know that at least in 2004 it was considered to be unreasonable to try to get i386 linux applications working on amd64 openbsd through emul.linux, but how much work would be involved to get amd64 linux apps working? Presumably it wouldn't quite be as easy as just using 64 bit packages instead of 32 bit, but are there too many abi differences?
Re: Price of Unix
Kevin Chadwick wrote: previously on this list Nick Holland contributed: ftp://cm.bell-labs.com/who/dmr/licenses/pricelist84.pdf UNIX System V, Release 2.0, Source Code (1) .. $43,000.00 Each Additional CPU .. $16,000.00 And so on.. :-) When this history comes up I wonder that in order to avoid legal issues the remaining unchanged and I guess some core parts were re-written at Berkeley and so were all the changes good and could/should? any of the ATT original code be re-considered today if any legal threat has subsided/expired? Of course things being built upon them may carry much more weight. I don't see why you think the legal threat expired. *someone* still holds the old unix copyrights; they're probably not expiring in the lifetime of anyone on this list. http://www.avast.com
UEFI Support
Is OpenBSD capable of booting from pure UEFI yet? This basically translates to Is there a UEFI capable bootloader since I don't have secure boot or anything turned on. I'm rather happy not having to deal with the bios at the moment so having to turn legacy boot back on would be really annoying.
Is Ext2 stable enough for normal use?
I've got an ext3 /home partition which I use under linux, how likely is it that files will get clobbered if I use the same /home under a dual boot with openbsd?
Re: OpenBSD/amd64 runs on computers equipped with AMD Athlon64
No, amd64 will only run on 64 bit x86 processors, so any 64 bit intel or amd will work(amd made the architecture, so it's called amd64 or x86_64.) No 32 bit processor will be able to run it On Mon, 12 Dec 2011, sc...@web.de wrote: Hallo! I took the subjectline from INSTALL.amd64. I hope this is also the right ISO for other AMD processors, not amd64. I have a Sempron 3000+ with 754 sockel, but I am not sure if it supports amd64 instructions. Rod.
Re: OpenBSD/amd64 runs on computers equipped with AMD Athlon64
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011, Michael H Lambert wrote: On 12 Dec 2011, at 12:50, Tekk wrote: No, amd64 will only run on 64 bit x86 processors, so any 64 bit intel or amd will work(amd made the architecture, so it's called amd64 or x86_64.) No 32 bit processor will be able to run it For completeness, non-Itanium 64-bit Intel processors. Michael Of course, made the assumption that he wouldn't know what itanium is and it'd confuse him more ;)(sorry if I actually ended up causing confusion)
Re: Failed to setup fvwm for antialiased Xft fonts
iirc the binary packages are audited, ports are not On Thu, 8 Dec 2011, Neoklis Kyriazis wrote: - Original Message - From: Thomas Adam tho...@xteddy.org To: Neoklis Kyriazis n5b...@yahoo.com Cc: OpenBSD misc@openbsd.org Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2011 6:41 PM Subject: Re: Failed to setup fvwm for antialiased Xft fonts No -- OpenBSD's version of FVWM as included in base is ancient. Get the one from ports which will have XFT support. Hi, Thanks for the tip. I have tried to install fvwm2 from the ports tree, but I saw a lot of gcc warnings during compilation, some of them possibly serious. This leads me to a more general question about using third party software. Is the source code of the binary application packages in the mirrors scrutinized, to fix the source of such warnings?And I suppose applications installed from the ports system are as is, since the source is downloaded from upstream? My thanks in advance. Regards Neoklis - Ham Radio Call 5B4AZ QTH Locator KM64KR Website: http://www.qsl.net/5b4az/
Re: Easy way to follow -current, a write-up
I think method I learned in irc would be better, wget just bsd.rd, boot from that, choose upgrade and have it download via ftp/http, then upgrade pkg_add On Sat, 3 Dec 2011, Sime Ramov wrote: I just wrote this document outlining the steps I do to keep up with -current: http://ramov.com/writing/obsd-current.html Hope someone finds it useful. More of an end-user method as there is no source code involved.
Re: Easy way to follow -current, a write-up
ouch, even if you don't snapshot that often it's a lot of money wasted :/ On Sun, 4 Dec 2011, Richard Toohey wrote: On 4/12/2011, at 8:36 AM, Marc Espie wrote: On Sat, Dec 03, 2011 at 08:01:43PM +0100, Sime Ramov wrote: I just wrote this document outlining the steps I do to keep up with -current: http://ramov.com/writing/obsd-current.html Hope someone finds it useful. Bad advice. As discussed with Antoine, sysmerge should be run *after* the update, not before, even though you may have to reboot an extra time. But an interesting thread - I've been burning CDs for each snapshot I've tried, thinking all the while there must be a better way ... not been a big enough itch for me to scratch, but now I've learnt something ... so thanks for that, guys.
Re: Narcicism?
On Fri, 2 Dec 2011, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote: On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 9:09 PM, David Riley fraveyd...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 1, 2011, at 2:39 PM, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote: On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 4:25 PM, John Tate j...@johntate.org wrote: I'm 24 years old. I was a Linux hacker since I was 13. ... At 13 I didn't just start learning Linux I started learning C++ as well. Are You sure? You wrote C++ Linux kernel code in 2000? Really? To be fair, he didn't say that. Being an XYZ hacker means programming XYZ in non-trivial, advanced ways, doesn't it? As he only mentioned C++, I assume that he only knew C++ by then. So, if the only programming language he knew was C++ and he programmed Linux, I conclude that he did his Linux hacking in C++. Where am I wrong? -- Dmitrij D. Czarkoff I don't think linux actually contained C++ at that point(though it does now, much to Linus' annoyance, from the bits of the mailing list I've seen.)
Re: Narcicism?
So still no C++, good to know On Fri, 2 Dec 2011, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 9:51 PM, Tekk t...@parlementum.net wrote: I don't think linux actually contained C++ at that point(though it does now, much to Linus' annoyance, from the bits of the mailing list I've seen.) http://kerneltrap.org/node/2067 -- Dmitrij D. Czarkoff
Re: Narcicism?
still no C++, good to know On Fri, 2 Dec 2011, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 9:51 PM, Tekk t...@parlementum.net wrote: I don't think linux actually contained C++ at that point(though it does now, much to Linus' annoyance, from the bits of the mailing list I've seen.) http://kerneltrap.org/node/2067 -- Dmitrij D. Czarkoff
Re: Narcicism?
It's that way in the US too, afaict(C is 'deprecated') On Fri, 2 Dec 2011, Dmitrij Czarkoff wrote: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:11 PM, David Riley fraveyd...@gmail.com wrote: one has to know C before knowing C++ Well, I don't know how it happens in US or Canada, but in Russia ordinarily people first learn C++, and then (may be) C. Yes, knowing C++ implies substantial knowledge of C, but the point still stands. He didn't say a word about C, which would have been more relevant, so I assume that he was exaggerating his involvement with Linux and hacking. -- Dmitrij D. Czarkoff
