Re: Serial Console and /etc/ttys
Edd Barrett wrote: Alas, Setting "local" did not help. I later found the "local" option in the terminals configuration menu. It is set to off. Best Regards Edd Hi, Make sure you go through the terminal setup and set xon/xoff flow control. There are 2 different areas where it can be configured, one is for the terminal, and one is for the auxilary pass through serial port. If you see something like IPTRS on the screen, that's the field you want to change. It's been 5 years since I worked with those terminals, so my memory is a bit foggy. Cheers, Steve Williams
Re: Serial Console and /etc/ttys
Alas, Setting "local" did not help. I later found the "local" option in the terminals configuration menu. It is set to off. Best Regards Edd
Re: Serial Console and /etc/ttys
On 08/09/2006, at 5:21 AM, Woodchuck wrote: I used to do this with an Ohmmeter with a paperclip soldered to each lead. Sometimes I'd bribe a hardware guy with doughnuts to use his oscilloscope. Some people might find that when soldering a wire to a paperclip, that they get a bead of solder *around* the paperclip, with the bead of solder having wet the wire nicely, but then get no connection at all between the wire and paperclip. Between the solder and paperclip, you might just get an insulating tube of cooled, hardened flux, preventing the connection. I'd rather use solid core wire which is thick enough to poke into the holes. Shane J Pearson shanejp netspace net au
Re: Serial Console and /etc/ttys
http://www.conserver.com/consoles/ (Almost) All you ever wanted to know about serial consoles. --- Lars Hansson
Re: Serial Console and /etc/ttys
On Thu, 7 Sep 2006, L. V. Lammert wrote: > On Thu, 7 Sep 2006, Woodchuck wrote: > > > On Wed, 6 Sep 2006, Edd Barrett wrote: > > > > > > > If it works with the sun box, I assumed it's the correct cable? > > > > Not necessarily the case, said the grey old admin, sighing and > > wincing with the facial tic he thought he had lost in the mid 1990's. > > > Nah, .. forget the documentation! Save the gray cells and get yourself an THe documentation for these terminals are often full of lies and wishes. Perusing the source for terminfo/termcap will convince anyone of that. Each line in there is written with blood, sweat and tears. > 'RS232 breakout box'. Most electronic stores have them, as do most network > vendors. Most PCs use DB9s, but if you can't find a breakout box with DB9s > you can also get 25->9 adapters (just be sure to get the right 'sex'). > > A breakout box will show if the data leads are crossed - you need to see > 'lights' on 2 AND 3 (TX & RX) to know your connection is correct. If > not, just swap 2 and 3. MOST terminals will run quite happily with 2, 3, > and gnd (5 or 7). Unless you do smooth scroll on a VT-xxx and aren't using software (XON-XOFF) flow control. Old terminals have very small data buffers. If the terminal will handle a curses app like top(1) at 9600, it's probably set up OK. 19200 baud is the proof of the pudding. > Knowing what is actually happening is a lot nicer than just trying one > cable after another. It sure is, but it's still painful. > > Lee Breakout boxes... shudder... line analyzers... shudder and flinch. I used to do this with an Ohmmeter with a paperclip soldered to each lead. Sometimes I'd bribe a hardware guy with doughnuts to use his oscilloscope. Dave -- Experience runs an expensive school, but fools will learn in no other. -- Benjamin Franklin
Re: Serial Console and /etc/ttys
On Thu, 7 Sep 2006, Woodchuck wrote: > On Wed, 6 Sep 2006, Edd Barrett wrote: > > > > If it works with the sun box, I assumed it's the correct cable? > > Not necessarily the case, said the grey old admin, sighing and > wincing with the facial tic he thought he had lost in the mid 1990's. > Nah, .. forget the documentation! Save the gray cells and get yourself an 'RS232 breakout box'. Most electronic stores have them, as do most network vendors. Most PCs use DB9s, but if you can't find a breakout box with DB9s you can also get 25->9 adapters (just be sure to get the right 'sex'). A breakout box will show if the data leads are crossed - you need to see 'lights' on 2 AND 3 (TX & RX) to know your connection is correct. If not, just swap 2 and 3. MOST terminals will run quite happily with 2, 3, and gnd (5 or 7). Knowing what is actually happening is a lot nicer than just trying one cable after another. Lee Leland V. Lammert[EMAIL PROTECTED] Chief Scientist Omnitec Corporation Network/Internet Consultants www.omnitec.net
Re: Serial Console and /etc/ttys
On 07/09/06, Woodchuck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Wed, 6 Sep 2006, Edd Barrett wrote: > > > > If it works with the sun box, I assumed it's the correct cable? > > Not necessarily the case, said the grey old admin, sighing and > wincing with the facial tic he thought he had lost in the mid 1990's. > > Getting a serial terminal to work is one of the bitchier bits of > olde-tyme sysadmin work. (It is not as bad as getting a serial > printer to work.) Google for "null modem pinout" and you should > get a sample of the sort of witchcraft to which desperate admins > have had recourse over the decades. > > There are different kinds of null modem cable, varying by mfg and > "philosophy". Null modems were at one time a seductive sink for > the sort of creativity that now is reserved for quirky software > license schemes and object-oriented programming. An RS-232 cable > can have, alas, 25 lines. Since only 7 (2 data, 1 gnd, 4 control > (2*(I'm busy, I'm alive))) are useful in any *practical* sense, the > other 18 (as well as the 4 "useful" control lines) can be combined > in a variety of intriguing ways to achieve or suppress some obscure > feature. This includes crossing-over, looping back, joining together, > and hard-wiring to ground or to certain voltages. Sometimes a tiny > resistor or capacitor might find its way under the shield of the > cable, cunningly soldered across the backs of two pins. This sounds really fun. :\ DEC cables usually work between DEC terminals and DEC computers. > Sometimes DEC cables work between genuine DEC terminals and PeeCees. > Hooking up an IBM terminal (even emulating (often this means > "mocking") a vt100 or vt220 -- this emulation may not extend to the > finicky hardware parts) to a Sun with a Sun (?) cable, experiencing > the rare joy of "working terminal" does not completely predict > behavior of that same terminal and cable with a PeeCee. Some sly > manufacturers may have stooped so low as to create "console" ports that > require a "straight" cable; Sun? I should look into that. this is where "philosophy" can rear > its head. PeeCees don't do that, at least the "standard" (har-har) > ports don't. > > Try setting "local" in /etc/ttys. How you make that IBM terminal > give up trying to set/read various control lines I don't know. > > Before you throw in the towel, try a simple 3-conductor null modem > cable, simply carrying through signal ground and swapping the two > data lines, in conjunction with "local" in /etc/ttys. After that > barely works, you will have to figure out how to set XON-XOFF flow > control with stty maybe. Some of this junk can be set with tset, > too. yikes. ok Dave "My VT-101 works and I'm not touching it again." > -- > Experience runs an expensive school, but fools will learn in no other. >-- Benjamin Franklin Thanks for your comprehensive and amusing reply! Best Regards Edd
Re: Serial Console and /etc/ttys
On Wed, 6 Sep 2006, Edd Barrett wrote: > If it works with the sun box, I assumed it's the correct cable? Not necessarily the case, said the grey old admin, sighing and wincing with the facial tic he thought he had lost in the mid 1990's. Getting a serial terminal to work is one of the bitchier bits of olde-tyme sysadmin work. (It is not as bad as getting a serial printer to work.) Google for "null modem pinout" and you should get a sample of the sort of witchcraft to which desperate admins have had recourse over the decades. There are different kinds of null modem cable, varying by mfg and "philosophy". Null modems were at one time a seductive sink for the sort of creativity that now is reserved for quirky software license schemes and object-oriented programming. An RS-232 cable can have, alas, 25 lines. Since only 7 (2 data, 1 gnd, 4 control (2*(I'm busy, I'm alive))) are useful in any *practical* sense, the other 18 (as well as the 4 "useful" control lines) can be combined in a variety of intriguing ways to achieve or suppress some obscure feature. This includes crossing-over, looping back, joining together, and hard-wiring to ground or to certain voltages. Sometimes a tiny resistor or capacitor might find its way under the shield of the cable, cunningly soldered across the backs of two pins. DEC cables usually work between DEC terminals and DEC computers. Sometimes DEC cables work between genuine DEC terminals and PeeCees. Hooking up an IBM terminal (even emulating (often this means "mocking") a vt100 or vt220 -- this emulation may not extend to the finicky hardware parts) to a Sun with a Sun (?) cable, experiencing the rare joy of "working terminal" does not completely predict behavior of that same terminal and cable with a PeeCee. Some sly manufacturers may have stooped so low as to create "console" ports that require a "straight" cable; this is where "philosophy" can rear its head. PeeCees don't do that, at least the "standard" (har-har) ports don't. Try setting "local" in /etc/ttys. How you make that IBM terminal give up trying to set/read various control lines I don't know. Before you throw in the towel, try a simple 3-conductor null modem cable, simply carrying through signal ground and swapping the two data lines, in conjunction with "local" in /etc/ttys. After that barely works, you will have to figure out how to set XON-XOFF flow control with stty maybe. Some of this junk can be set with tset, too. Dave "My VT-101 works and I'm not touching it again." -- Experience runs an expensive school, but fools will learn in no other. -- Benjamin Franklin
Re: Serial Console and /etc/ttys
On 06/09/06, Woodchuck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 6 Sep 2006, Edd Barrett wrote:
>
> > > You'll need to send a more detailed email to misc@
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Tom
> > >
> >
> > The /etc/ttys line reads:
> >
> > tty00 "/usr/libexec/getty std.9600" vt100 on secure
> >
> > Which according to the faq is fine?
> > http://openbsd.org/faq/faq7.html#SerCon
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Edd
>
> You'll need to use a null modem cable from the terminal to the computer.
> Your original symptoms sound vaguely like you're not using a null
> modem cable.
If it works with the sun box, I assumed it's the correct cable?
Is getty running?
yes
(Did you HUP init?)
yes. "ttyflags -a && kill -HUP 1"
Is getty respawning very
> rapidly?
nope. As i said, if i change the device to cua00 it almost runs properly.
Small semantic note in the interests of clarity: it's called a
> "terminal" not a "console". This was confusing some, maybe.
> ("Console" is a function, i.e. used for booting, receives certain
> system messages. "Terminal" is a thing; a terminal may be used
> as a "console", but also may be used as a simple login device.)
Thanks. It's something I don't have any experience in tbh.
Dave
> --
> Experience runs an expensive school, but fools will learn in no other.
>-- Benjamin Franklin
Best Regards
Edd
Re: Serial Console and /etc/ttys
On Wed, 6 Sep 2006, Edd Barrett wrote:
> > You'll need to send a more detailed email to misc@
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Tom
> >
>
> The /etc/ttys line reads:
>
> tty00 "/usr/libexec/getty std.9600" vt100 on secure
>
> Which according to the faq is fine?
> http://openbsd.org/faq/faq7.html#SerCon
>
> Regards
>
> Edd
You'll need to use a null modem cable from the terminal to the computer.
Your original symptoms sound vaguely like you're not using a null
modem cable.
Is getty running? (Did you HUP init?) Is getty respawning very
rapidly?
Small semantic note in the interests of clarity: it's called a
"terminal" not a "console". This was confusing some, maybe.
("Console" is a function, i.e. used for booting, receives certain
system messages. "Terminal" is a thing; a terminal may be used
as a "console", but also may be used as a simple login device.)
Dave
--
Experience runs an expensive school, but fools will learn in no other.
-- Benjamin Franklin
Re: Serial Console and /etc/ttys
On 06/09/06, Tom Cosgrove <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>> Edd Barrett 6-Sep-06 11:16 >>> > > > > Hiya, > > > > My work was chucking out an IBM serial console (infowindow II 3153), > > so I grabbed it to see if I could get it working with my boxes. > > > > a) Using my Sun Blade 100 the console works fine. As you probably > > know, most sun machines set the default console to the serial line > > (vt100 9600 8N1) if no keyboard is present. This is probably a good > > indication that the console is properly set up for vt100 emulation > > (?). > > > > b) If I plug in to my i386 -current box and modify /etc/ttys > > to run a getty on /dev/tty00 for vt100, nothing happens on the > > console. > > Then you modified /etc/ttys incorrectly. > > Unless you show us the exact lines you used, only someone who has made > exactly this mistake before will be able to help. Also, did you make > any changes to /etc/boot.conf? Are you trying to run a serial console. > > Also, when you say "nothing happens on the console" do you mean the > VDU screen? "console" in BSD means a specific thing: the console > device (which receives the white-on-blue kernel output, for example). > > > If I set the device to /dev/cua00 I get a half arsed > > terminal. Passwords echo and theres no controlling tty so the shell is > > severely crippled. Apps like vi and top simply will not run. > > Dont use cua00, that is for dialling out. Running a termainl on a port > is effectively "dialling in" to the computer. > > > I have seen similar problems by searching google/lists, but none > > have solved the issue. I have seen someone solve the issue by adding > > "softcar" onto the end of the ttys line, but alas this did not help. > > > > Can enyone enlighten me? > > > > Best Regards > > > > Edd > > You'll need to send a more detailed email to misc@ > > Thanks > > Tom > The /etc/ttys line reads: tty00 "/usr/libexec/getty std.9600" vt100 on secure Which according to the faq is fine? http://openbsd.org/faq/faq7.html#SerCon Regards Edd
Re: Serial Console and /etc/ttys
On 06/09/06, Tom Cosgrove <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>> Edd Barrett 6-Sep-06 11:16 >>> > > > > Hiya, > > > > My work was chucking out an IBM serial console (infowindow II 3153), > > so I grabbed it to see if I could get it working with my boxes. > > > > a) Using my Sun Blade 100 the console works fine. As you probably > > know, most sun machines set the default console to the serial line > > (vt100 9600 8N1) if no keyboard is present. This is probably a good > > indication that the console is properly set up for vt100 emulation > > (?). > > > > b) If I plug in to my i386 -current box and modify /etc/ttys > > to run a getty on /dev/tty00 for vt100, nothing happens on the > > console. > > Then you modified /etc/ttys incorrectly. > > Unless you show us the exact lines you used, only someone who has made > exactly this mistake before will be able to help. Also, did you make > any changes to /etc/boot.conf? Are you trying to run a serial console. I am not attempting to change the default console no. I still wish my other keyboard and screen to take this role. Also, when you say "nothing happens on the console" do you mean the > VDU screen? "console" in BSD means a specific thing: the console > device (which receives the white-on-blue kernel output, for example). I mean the console attached via serial device > If I set the device to /dev/cua00 I get a half arsed > > terminal. Passwords echo and theres no controlling tty so the shell is > > severely crippled. Apps like vi and top simply will not run. > > Dont use cua00, that is for dialling out. Running a termainl on a port > is effectively "dialling in" to the computer. Right you are. > I have seen similar problems by searching google/lists, but none > > have solved the issue. I have seen someone solve the issue by adding > > "softcar" onto the end of the ttys line, but alas this did not help. > > > > Can enyone enlighten me? > > > > Best Regards > > > > Edd > > You'll need to send a more detailed email to misc@ I'm at work now, but Ill follow this up when I get home. Thanks > > Tom > Best Regards Edd
