Re: Strange WLAN issue with ral(4) in hostap mode
So, if my understanding is correct (and I am not a coder or developer so I may be about to humiliate myself with my ignorance here, but please bear with me for a minute) the infrastructure has been added to net80211 via the new ieee80211_notify_dtim() function, but it's up to the individual drivers e.g. ral(4) to call this function appropriately to enable Power Save Polling in HostAP mode? Or am I way of the track? I'm just trying to evaluate if it's worth maintaining my OpenBSD access point or look to other options (e.g. a COTS access point with PSP implemented, bridged to the OpenBSD host via ethernet)? I know there are at least a few other people subscribed to this list who have implemented OpenBSD as a wifi access point, some in quite "open" environments e.g. universities - how are they coping? Many thanks to all who are bearing my whining here! On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Damon McMahon wrote: > Any chance this recent change on CVS to sys/net80211/ieee80211_node.c > by damien@ is related? > > "Add an ieee80211_notify_dtim() function that drivers should call > after every DTIM in HostAP mode. > Flushes all group addressed MSDUs buffered at the AP for power management." > > Hope so! > > Cheers, > Damon > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 8:18 AM, Todd T. Fries wrote: >> There are power savings for 802.11 that OpenBSD does not support; this is >> entirely independent from saving battery via cpu clocking and it is also >> entirely independent from saving battery via adjusting the transmit power >> of the radio. The power savings for 802.11 actually put the radio to sleep >> for a given interval and wake it up sending a message to the AP which is >> supposed to hold packets for a given client until the client responds, >> which OpenBSD does not do, therefore packetloss ensues. >> >> I know this very well, my BlackBerry Pearl 8120 gets 90-95% packet loss >> with an OpenBSD based AP. >> >> Damien is aware of what needs doing, but I am to understand it is not a >> short or easy road to get there. >> >> Thanks, >> -- >> Todd Fries .. t...@fries.net >> >> _ >> | \ 1.636.410.0632 (voice) >> | Free Daemon Consulting, LLC \ 1.405.227.9094 (voice) >> | http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com \ 1.866.792.3418 (FAX) >> | "..in support of free software solutions." \ 250797 (FWD) >> | \ >> \\ >> >> 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A >>http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt >> >> Penned by Damon McMahon on 20090103 8:09.21, we have: >> | Jussi - thanks for the response, but I've tried that to no effect, >> | e.g. on the Macbook Pro the Energy Saver settings for Mains and >> | Battery modes are identical. >> | >> | On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 05:45:45 +0200, Jussi Peltola wrote: >> | > Disable power saving on the clients.
Re: Strange WLAN issue with ral(4) in hostap mode
Any chance this recent change on CVS to sys/net80211/ieee80211_node.c by damien@ is related? "Add an ieee80211_notify_dtim() function that drivers should call after every DTIM in HostAP mode. Flushes all group addressed MSDUs buffered at the AP for power management." Hope so! Cheers, Damon On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 8:18 AM, Todd T. Fries wrote: > There are power savings for 802.11 that OpenBSD does not support; this is > entirely independent from saving battery via cpu clocking and it is also > entirely independent from saving battery via adjusting the transmit power > of the radio. The power savings for 802.11 actually put the radio to sleep > for a given interval and wake it up sending a message to the AP which is > supposed to hold packets for a given client until the client responds, > which OpenBSD does not do, therefore packetloss ensues. > > I know this very well, my BlackBerry Pearl 8120 gets 90-95% packet loss > with an OpenBSD based AP. > > Damien is aware of what needs doing, but I am to understand it is not a > short or easy road to get there. > > Thanks, > -- > Todd Fries .. t...@fries.net > > _ > | \ 1.636.410.0632 (voice) > | Free Daemon Consulting, LLC \ 1.405.227.9094 (voice) > | http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com \ 1.866.792.3418 (FAX) > | "..in support of free software solutions." \ 250797 (FWD) > | \ > \\ > > 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A >http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt > > Penned by Damon McMahon on 20090103 8:09.21, we have: > | Jussi - thanks for the response, but I've tried that to no effect, > | e.g. on the Macbook Pro the Energy Saver settings for Mains and > | Battery modes are identical. > | > | On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 05:45:45 +0200, Jussi Peltola wrote: > | > Disable power saving on the clients.
Re: Strange WLAN issue with ral(4) in hostap mode
Thanks, Todd, and my apologies go to Jussi for misunderstanding his point. I can replicate this behaviour. Windows allows me to change the "Power Save Mode" on the Atheros AR5008 card used by Apple in the MacBook Pro to "Off" which resolves the issue (when the MBP is booted into Windows, anyway). Unfortunately there seems no documented method of performing this configuration change on Mac OS X - but that's for another community of users on another forum, obviously. Thanks again for your assistance and warm regards, Damon On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 8:18 AM, Todd T. Fries wrote: > There are power savings for 802.11 that OpenBSD does not support; this is > entirely independent from saving battery via cpu clocking and it is also > entirely independent from saving battery via adjusting the transmit power > of the radio. The power savings for 802.11 actually put the radio to sleep > for a given interval and wake it up sending a message to the AP which is > supposed to hold packets for a given client until the client responds, > which OpenBSD does not do, therefore packetloss ensues. > > I know this very well, my BlackBerry Pearl 8120 gets 90-95% packet loss > with an OpenBSD based AP. > > Damien is aware of what needs doing, but I am to understand it is not a > short or easy road to get there. > > Thanks, > -- > Todd Fries .. t...@fries.net > > _ > | \ 1.636.410.0632 (voice) > | Free Daemon Consulting, LLC \ 1.405.227.9094 (voice) > | http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com \ 1.866.792.3418 (FAX) > | "..in support of free software solutions." \ 250797 (FWD) > | \ > \\ > > 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A >http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt > > Penned by Damon McMahon on 20090103 8:09.21, we have: > | Jussi - thanks for the response, but I've tried that to no effect, > | e.g. on the Macbook Pro the Energy Saver settings for Mains and > | Battery modes are identical. > | > | On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 05:45:45 +0200, Jussi Peltola wrote: > | > Disable power saving on the clients.
Re: Strange WLAN issue with ral(4) in hostap mode
Todd T. Fries wrote: > There are power savings for 802.11 that OpenBSD does not support; this is > entirely independent from saving battery via cpu clocking and it is also > entirely independent from saving battery via adjusting the transmit power > of the radio. The power savings for 802.11 actually put the radio to sleep > for a given interval and wake it up sending a message to the AP which is > supposed to hold packets for a given client until the client responds, > which OpenBSD does not do, therefore packetloss ensues. > > I know this very well, my BlackBerry Pearl 8120 gets 90-95% packet loss > with an OpenBSD based AP. > > Damien is aware of what needs doing, but I am to understand it is not a > short or easy road to get there. I believe I am seeing this problem with a new ral in a Soekris 4801. Over the holidays, I added: GigaByte GN-WI01GS: ral0 at pci0 dev 14 function 0 "Ralink RT2561S" rev 0x00: irq 11, address 00:1f:d0:09:aa:06 ral0: MAC/BBP RT2561C, RF RT2527 Wanting to show off to some friends, I tried connecting with a Linux laptop via WAP2. When connection is made, it works well for a few minutes, at which time it exhibits the above described behavior. At first I thought it was me. Now I wish it were. I'm confused on one point though, is this issue specific to ral or 802.11 in general? My knowledge of things 802.11 is spotty at best. In other words, can I work around this by using a different MiniPCI card? I'll happily donate the card to someone who volunteers to work on this. Regards all, Ray
Re: Strange WLAN issue with ral(4) in hostap mode
There are power savings for 802.11 that OpenBSD does not support; this is entirely independent from saving battery via cpu clocking and it is also entirely independent from saving battery via adjusting the transmit power of the radio. The power savings for 802.11 actually put the radio to sleep for a given interval and wake it up sending a message to the AP which is supposed to hold packets for a given client until the client responds, which OpenBSD does not do, therefore packetloss ensues. I know this very well, my BlackBerry Pearl 8120 gets 90-95% packet loss with an OpenBSD based AP. Damien is aware of what needs doing, but I am to understand it is not a short or easy road to get there. Thanks, -- Todd Fries .. t...@fries.net _ | \ 1.636.410.0632 (voice) | Free Daemon Consulting, LLC \ 1.405.227.9094 (voice) | http://FreeDaemonConsulting.com \ 1.866.792.3418 (FAX) | "..in support of free software solutions." \ 250797 (FWD) | \ \\ 37E7 D3EB 74D0 8D66 A68D B866 0326 204E 3F42 004A http://todd.fries.net/pgp.txt Penned by Damon McMahon on 20090103 8:09.21, we have: | Jussi - thanks for the response, but I've tried that to no effect, | e.g. on the Macbook Pro the Energy Saver settings for Mains and | Battery modes are identical. | | On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 05:45:45 +0200, Jussi Peltola wrote: | > Disable power saving on the clients.
Re: Strange WLAN issue with ral(4) in hostap mode
Jussi - thanks for the response, but I've tried that to no effect, e.g. on the Macbook Pro the Energy Saver settings for Mains and Battery modes are identical. On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 05:45:45 +0200, Jussi Peltola wrote: > Disable power saving on the clients.
Re: Strange WLAN issue with ral(4) in hostap mode
On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 05:45:45 +0200 Jussi Peltola wrote: > Disable power saving on the clients. > > 'zat it? Dhu
Re: Strange WLAN issue with ral(4) in hostap mode
Disable power saving on the clients.
