Re: renaming name of interfaces
* Jiri B ji...@devio.us [2013-03-14 16:32]: Situation: onboard network card is broken and was used in OS. You just plug additional network card, and disable the old one via `config' (is this right?). The policy in your setup is the order of network cards make some logic: * 1st backup/installation * 2nd service * 3rd admin access Now you don't use old broken card but you can't make new one being first for example. I don't say this is good design but I saw it used a lot in my previous job. Renaming new card to old one is impossible. if you had used a one-member interface group to refer to that interface in the first place you'd only had to deal with the hostname.if file, at least in many scenarios. -- Henning Brauer, h...@bsws.de, henn...@openbsd.org BS Web Services, http://bsws.de, Full-Service ISP Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services. Dedicated Servers, Root to Fully Managed Henning Brauer Consulting, http://henningbrauer.com/
Re: renaming name of interfaces
On 2013-03-15, Lars Hansson romaby...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 10:22 PM, Jiri B ji...@devio.us wrote: I'm aware of both. So what is this renaming of ifaces good for? On Windows it has it's advantages because by default you get stupid and unhelpful names like Local Area Connection X. It's pretty nice to be able to rename it to something useful like Internal NIC. This is more like setting 'descr', the difference is that Windows usually hides the real name it uses for the interface.
Re: renaming name of interfaces
On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 07:12:08AM -0400, Jiri B wrote: just for curiosity, is it planned for future? I can't just now think about real usability... Me neither. For most use cases I can think of, interface groups (a feature we do have, see ifconfig(8) and possibly other references elsewhere) will give you what others have implemented interface renaming for. - Peter (whose current pet hate is Solaris11's 'vanity names' for interfaces) -- Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/ Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.
Re: renaming name of interfaces
Peter N. M. Hansteen pe...@bsdly.net wrote: Me neither. For most use cases I can think of, interface groups (a feature we do have, see ifconfig(8) and possibly other references elsewhere) will give you what others have implemented interface renaming for. There are also interface descriptions. -- Christian naddy Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
Re: renaming name of interfaces
On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 02:10:40PM +, Christian Weisgerber wrote: Peter N. M. Hansteen pe...@bsdly.net wrote: Me neither. For most use cases I can think of, interface groups (a feature we do have, see ifconfig(8) and possibly other references elsewhere) will give you what others have implemented interface renaming for. There are also interface descriptions. I'm aware of both. So what is this renaming of ifaces good for? Like /etc/mactab in Linux... I've thought I have usage for this but then I discovered I did bad testing and reorder of nics was my issue in RHEVM/kvm world. So what is this good for in other OS? jirib
Re: renaming name of interfaces
On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 12:17:50PM +0100, Peter N. M. Hansteen wrote: On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 07:12:08AM -0400, Jiri B wrote: just for curiosity, is it planned for future? I can't just now think about real usability... Me neither. For most use cases I can think of, interface groups (a feature we do have, see ifconfig(8) and possibly other references elsewhere) will give you what others have implemented interface renaming for. Situation: onboard network card is broken and was used in OS. You just plug additional network card, and disable the old one via `config' (is this right?). The policy in your setup is the order of network cards make some logic: * 1st backup/installation * 2nd service * 3rd admin access Now you don't use old broken card but you can't make new one being first for example. I don't say this is good design but I saw it used a lot in my previous job. Renaming new card to old one is impossible. jirib
Re: renaming name of interfaces
On 03/14/2013 11:31 AM, Jiri B wrote: On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 12:17:50PM +0100, Peter N. M. Hansteen wrote: On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 07:12:08AM -0400, Jiri B wrote: just for curiosity, is it planned for future? I can't just now think about real usability... Me neither. For most use cases I can think of, interface groups (a feature we do have, see ifconfig(8) and possibly other references elsewhere) will give you what others have implemented interface renaming for. Situation: onboard network card is broken and was used in OS. You just plug additional network card, and disable the old one via `config' (is this right?). The policy in your setup is the order of network cards make some logic: * 1st backup/installation * 2nd service * 3rd admin access Now you don't use old broken card but you can't make new one being first for example. I don't say this is good design but I saw it used a lot in my previous job. Renaming new card to old one is impossible. disable the on-board card in BIOS, or since you obviously aren't repairing the board, pry the chip off the mobo (yes, I've done this...friend of mine gave me some re-badged Sokris 4501 machines with bad NICs -- I popped off dead chip (it was the one getting too hot), and suddenly my remaining ones became sis0 and sis1 (and the heat generation dropped a lot). A little hot glue in the deactivated port, and I now have a perfectly good 2 port Soekris. But really...if you are living with dead on-board hardware, you need to have the ability to make exceptions to policies like that...and in all cases, some kind of labeling should be done. [elsewhere in thread] So what is this good for in other OS? ... other OSs have really stupid naming conventions. They make up for the problems with their naming conventions by adding features. Those features create new problems, which are solved by adding other features. Those features create new problems, so that creates opportunity to make MORE features. And everyone knows, the more features you have, the better it is, right? The OS with the most features wins! OpenBSD is for losers who actually have to get work done, not just fiddle with time-saving features all day. (yes, the default naming convention of OpenBSD causes some problems, but they are easy to understand and easy to deal with. Certainly easier than the fixes that try to eliminate dealing with the simple problems by creating massive problems) Me? If I have two identical machines with RAID 1 disks, and I have one configured Just Like I Want It, I think I should be able to pull one drive from the configured machine, pop both drives out of the second machine, stick the removed disk from the configured machine in the secondary, change the IP address and machine name, maybe remove the host SSH keys, and be up and running. I should then be able to insert the two free drives into the open slots and have the mirrors rebuild. OR, if a machine fails and I have an identical machine, I should be able to remove the disks, put them in the spare machine, plug the wires in the same place in the spare machine, power on and be back in operation with ZERO reconfiguration. This is something I should be able to walk a non-technical person through over the phone (i.e., secretary, janitor. Not managers, I have given up walking them through things). This Just Works on OpenBSD. It doesn't work easily in most other OSs. Nick.
Re: renaming name of interfaces
On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 11:31:29AM -0400, Jiri B wrote: Situation: onboard network card is broken and was used in OS. You just plug additional network card, and disable the old one via `config' (is this right?). The policy in your setup is the order of network cards make some logic: * 1st backup/installation * 2nd service * 3rd admin access Now you don't use old broken card but you can't make new one being first for example. I don't say this is good design but I saw it used a lot in my previous job. Renaming new card to old one is impossible. If all those interfaces are of the same kind (using the same driver), you may face a renumbering situation, true. But there are several factors that would make the pain a lot smaller with OpenBSD than a few other contenders in the general case. For one thing your network interfaces are named driverN (xl0, nfe0 and so on), in contrast to Linux' ethN where renumbering does happen and is a common cause of major confusion (or at least did back when I had a few moderately complex Linux boxes). If you can swap out the card with another one of the same type (probably not an option if it's an onboard version) in the same slot you probably will be OK, and if your new card is a different make, all you need to do is some minor editing of config files and maybe a mv or two of hostname.* files. - P -- Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/ Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.
Re: renaming name of interfaces
Jiri B jirib at devio.us writes: I'm aware of both. So what is this renaming of ifaces good for? Like /etc/mactab in Linux... I've thought I have usage for this but then I discovered I did bad testing and reorder of nics was my issue in RHEVM/kvm world. hey, this is OpenBSD, which is neither forcing you, nor restricting to use your brain :) /etc/netstart brings all networks related stuff up. if your virtualization environment changes an order but preserves MAC addresses (which most hypervisors do by generating MACs at virtual machine creation, interface addition, etc), you can write a little shim on top of /etc/netstart which will assign unique group to interface with a given MAC address. after that and all /etc/netstart juggling, pf may filter on groups instead of interface names. with decent shell programming skills, writing such a shim should take less than hour including testing.
Re: renaming name of interfaces
On 03/14/13 20:15, Alexey E. Suslikov wrote:
Jiri B jirib at devio.us writes:
I'm aware of both. So what is this renaming of ifaces good
for? Like /etc/mactab in Linux... I've thought I have usage
for this but then I discovered I did bad testing and reorder
of nics was my issue in RHEVM/kvm world.
hey, this is OpenBSD, which is neither forcing you,
nor restricting to use your brain :)
/etc/netstart brings all networks related stuff up.
if your virtualization environment changes an order
but preserves MAC addresses (which most hypervisors
do by generating MACs at virtual machine creation,
interface addition, etc), you can write a little
shim on top of /etc/netstart which will assign
unique group to interface with a given MAC address.
after that and all /etc/netstart juggling, pf may
filter on groups instead of interface names.
with decent shell programming skills, writing such
a shim should take less than hour including testing.
Challenge accepted;
# ifconfig | awk
'/^[a-z]/{i=$1;sub(/:/,,i)}/^\tlladdr/{gsub(/:/,,$2);system(ifconfig i
group _$2_)}'
ksh, sed and other variants will likely be more complex.
/Alexander
Re: renaming name of interfaces
On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 10:22 PM, Jiri B ji...@devio.us wrote: I'm aware of both. So what is this renaming of ifaces good for? On Windows it has it's advantages because by default you get stupid and unhelpful names like Local Area Connection X. It's pretty nice to be able to rename it to something useful like Internal NIC. Lars
