Re: The REAL reason we use OpenBSD
On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 4:41 AM, Paul de Weerd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] > Placing correctness before features is such a fundamentally different > approach to what (most) other projects do, with such obvious results, > I'm amazed OpenBSD is still the only one doing it. [...] I add two more: "simplicity" and "intuitiveness". Simplicity because things are laid out really well, and are easy to grasp/understand. For eg., the netstart script, the rc.local script, rc.shutdown script, and I can just go on. Try checking the rc.* stuff on Linux, and the simplicity thing distinctly stands out. And intuitiveness follows because of this simplicity. :-) Thanks. -Amarendra
Re: The REAL reason we use OpenBSD
On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 7:08 PM, Ray Percival <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mar 15, 2008, at 14:48, Genadijus Paleckis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > http://blog.anamazingmind.com/2008/03/real-reason-we-use-linux.html > > > > oh, and before you started to read, to be more comfortable just do s/ > > linux/openbsd/g > > Whoever wrote that needs to discover girls and/ boys and beer. I use > OpenBSD because it lets me get shit done and then go do more > interesting things. > > Hear hear. That must be the most pointless article I didn't read.
Re: The REAL reason we use OpenBSD
On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 04:08:25PM -0700, Ray Percival wrote: > On Mar 15, 2008, at 14:48, Genadijus Paleckis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >http://blog.anamazingmind.com/2008/03/real-reason-we-use-linux.html > > > >oh, and before you started to read, to be more comfortable just do s/ > >linux/openbsd/g > > Whoever wrote that needs to discover girls and/ boys and beer. I use > OpenBSD because it lets me get shit done and then go do more > interesting things. Please don't tar all of us with the same brush. I use Debian because I didn't like RedHat. I used RedHat because the book was used and $2. I bought the book because my version of OS/2 wasn't Y2K compatible and went crazy at Y2K + 1. I looked at the BSDs but I didn't have the knowledge-base to understand it. I've stuck with Debian on my new box because it is so simple to keep up-to-date and as a good security record. However, Linux keeps trying to attract Windows users and even Debian has default desktop-environment installs. This changes the culture. One used to have people writing to the debian-user list asking how to mount a USB stick. Now they are asking why it doesn't happen automatically. Worse, a problem will be presented and one will invest lots of time trying to sort out a wiierd situation, only to find later that they're using Ubuntu. Ubuntu is based on Debian Unstable (Sid) to get the newest features but adds things that aren't free enough for Debian, and wraps everything in a clicky-pointy thingy or changes how config files work even if the path is the same as on Debian. Linux doesn't work well on old hardware. I like to tinker with old hardware. OpenBSD is great on old hardware. I've learned enough about Unix on Linux (before it turned into Lindows) to start on the BSD learning curve. I've never been able to get FreeBSD's installer to work and its security profile looks similar to Linux (add features at almost any cost) while NetBSD takes forever (if ever) to address security issues that come up solved on FreeBSD and Debian first, followed closely by OpenBSD (if it was suceptable in the first place). As soon as I have a box with enough hard drive space to compile fixes, I'll be trying OpenBSD on a home-production system. Until then, it is very good on stand-alone boxes (e.g. as a print-server). Thanks, Doug.
Re: The REAL reason we use OpenBSD
On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 7:11 PM, Paul de Weerd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Placing correctness before features is such a fundamentally different > approach to what (most) other projects do, with such obvious results, > I'm amazed OpenBSD is still the only one doing it. > I think you're doing postgresql a disservice... afaik, they do place a lot on correctness, hence, they were acid compliant (and mysql is not) for the longest time. Umm... not the browser acid, this one: http://databases.about.com/od/specificproducts/a/acid.htm This is also why the recent scalability tests by freebsd shows that the mysql database tops out at 8 cores (additional cores do _nothing_ at all), whereas postgresql keeps on linearly trucking. And 30% faster than mysql. Not ranting at you, btw :) -- http://www.glumbert.com/media/shift http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk "This officer's men seem to follow him merely out of idle curiosity." -- Sandhurst officer cadet evaluation. "Securing an environment of Windows platforms from abuse - external or internal - is akin to trying to install sprinklers in a fireworks factory where smoking on the job is permitted." -- Gene Spafford learn french: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1G-3laJJP0&feature=related
Re: The REAL reason we use OpenBSD
Chris Kuethe wrote: > not if you're using sed... or Perl. :-) Anyway, ex-Linux user here... I switched to OpenBSD after nearly a decade of various "distros" because I got tired of recompiling kernels with security patches and otherwise wasting much of my time searching through outdated HOWTOs and "placeholder" man pages (no joke!) And yeah, the command line is fun, but it's also invaluable. I once visited a Linux shop where they had this motto: "automation is excellence". The founder was very proud of his motto, and kept repeating it constantly. But I think their sights were set much too low, because automation is something that should be considered a given, as without it any meaningful business operation falls apart after a certain scale is reached. -- Stephen Takacs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://perlguru.net/ 4149 FD56 D078 C988 9027 1EB4 04CC F80F 72CB 09DA
Re: The REAL reason we use OpenBSD
On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 03:19:42PM -0700, Chris Kuethe wrote: | On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 3:06 PM, Sevan / Venture37 | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | > > http://blog.anamazingmind.com/2008/03/real-reason-we-use-linux.html | > > | > > oh, and before you started to read, to be more comfortable just do | > > s/linux/openbsd/g | > > | > | > You mean | > %s/linux/openbsd/g | | not if you're using sed... which is case sensitive, so you might want | to do something like this. | | lynx -dump http://blog.anamazingmind.com/2008/03/real-reason-we-use-linux.html | | sed -e 's/[Ll]inux/OpenBSD/g' | more I'd rather not. Even though I like OpenBSD because it's fun, I use it because it sucks the least. "It's fun to change all settings, break the system.." .. say what ? Is that why Linux has all those knobs and dials ? So you can frob 'em and break your system ? And that's fun ? And it's also fun to have 'over a hundred distributions to choose from' ? Where's the fun in that ? Here's another fine gem : "and discovering completely pointless yet fascinating facts about the OS." Are you sure this is not some linux hater being sarcastic ? "Because, let's face it, we want to feel special." Let's face it .. all software sucks and operating systems are a collection of lots of software so they suck pretty bad in general. OpenBSD manages to do away with much of the suckyness (all those useless knobs and dials, for instance) but it's still software and it still has bugs. The good part about OpenBSD is the developers' focus on correctness. Placing correctness before features is such a fundamentally different approach to what (most) other projects do, with such obvious results, I'm amazed OpenBSD is still the only one doing it. Oh well... enough of this OT ranting ;) Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd -- >[<++>-]<+++.>+++[<-->-]<.>+++[<+ +++>-]<.>++[<>-]<+.--.[-] http://www.weirdnet.nl/
Re: The REAL reason we use OpenBSD
On Mar 15, 2008, at 14:48, Genadijus Paleckis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: http://blog.anamazingmind.com/2008/03/real-reason-we-use-linux.html oh, and before you started to read, to be more comfortable just do s/ linux/openbsd/g Whoever wrote that needs to discover girls and/ boys and beer. I use OpenBSD because it lets me get shit done and then go do more interesting things.
Re: The REAL reason we use OpenBSD
> > > http://blog.anamazingmind.com/2008/03/real-reason-we-use-linux.html > > > > > > oh, and before you started to read, to be more comfortable just do > > > s/linux/openbsd/g > > > > > > > You mean > > %s/linux/openbsd/g > > not if you're using sed... which is case sensitive, so you might want > to do something like this. Anyway, these people seem to have way too much fun breaking their own systems, and I am not comfortable with this, regardless of the operating system used. Experimentation is good, but a perpetual state of subtle brokenness is not.
Re: The REAL reason we use OpenBSD
On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 3:06 PM, Sevan / Venture37 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > http://blog.anamazingmind.com/2008/03/real-reason-we-use-linux.html > > > > oh, and before you started to read, to be more comfortable just do > > s/linux/openbsd/g > > > > You mean > %s/linux/openbsd/g not if you're using sed... which is case sensitive, so you might want to do something like this. lynx -dump http://blog.anamazingmind.com/2008/03/real-reason-we-use-linux.html | sed -e 's/[Ll]inux/OpenBSD/g' | more -- GDB has a 'break' feature; why doesn't it have 'fix' too?
Re: The REAL reason we use OpenBSD
> http://blog.anamazingmind.com/2008/03/real-reason-we-use-linux.html > > oh, and before you started to read, to be more comfortable just do > s/linux/openbsd/g > You mean %s/linux/openbsd/g _ Free games, great prizes - get gaming at Gamesbox. http://www.searchgamesbox.com
The REAL reason we use OpenBSD
http://blog.anamazingmind.com/2008/03/real-reason-we-use-linux.html oh, and before you started to read, to be more comfortable just do s/linux/openbsd/g
