Re: [Mjpeg-users] workaround (PPC) for mpeg2enc's buggyness

[Hervé Flores]

Le 22 janv. 08 à 22:53, Mark Heath a écrit :

>
>
> On 23/01/2008, at 5:16 AM, Florin Andrei wrote:
>
>> Mark Heath wrote:
>>>
>>> Anyway I've been using the mpeg2 encoder in ffmpeg and have been
>>> happy with the results.
>>
>> I asked recently on their mailing list if they solved the rate  
>> control
>> issues and they said no.
>>
>> Kind of a big issue if the target media is DVD.
>
>
> I use a max rate of 8500 (rather than the DVD specified limit of
> 9800) and never had problems during muxing or had the files rejected
> by authoring software.

Perhaps somebody can explain to me the meaning of mplex verbose,
I have sometimes "freezes" on my dvd player (and I suspect too high  
bitrate)

the mpeg2 reports no problem during muxing (with some muxers, dvd  
authoring softs, etc)
but mplex says something like that:

mplex -f 8 input.m2v ... -o output.mpg
[...]
Peak bit-rat: 11814400

This peak is > 10 080 000 kb/s (the maximum "size" of video for DVD)
it's just a warning and not an error.
I took a look the stream and my other tools/softs didn't detect an  
"overflow" (resulting stream seems to be ≤ 10 080 000).

Somebody understand this warning? mplex is right or does it means  
anything else? (aka the result is compliant with dvd-specf or not?)
...rate control is always a problem (bigger in ffmpeg but present in  
mpeg2enc too)
bye

Hervé
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Re: [Mjpeg-users] workaround (PPC) for mpeg2enc's buggyness

[Florin Andrei]

Mark Heath wrote:
> 
> On 23/01/2008, at 5:16 AM, Florin Andrei wrote:
> 
>> Mark Heath wrote:
>>> Anyway I've been using the mpeg2 encoder in ffmpeg and have been
>>> happy with the results.
>> I asked recently on their mailing list if they solved the rate control
>> issues and they said no.
>>
>> Kind of a big issue if the target media is DVD.
> 
> I use a max rate of 8500 (rather than the DVD specified limit of  
> 9800) and never had problems during muxing or had the files rejected  
> by authoring software.  Maybe I'm just lucky.

Oh, that's the easy part. It gets nasty when the DVD is played by 
finicky DVD players. In an ideal world, the player should not do bad 
things once the video stream is just a tiny bit out of whack, but in 
practice quite a few of them do.

-- 
Florin Andrei

http://florin.myip.org/

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Re: [Mjpeg-users] workaround (PPC) for mpeg2enc's buggyness

[Mark Heath]

On 23/01/2008, at 5:16 AM, Florin Andrei wrote:

> Mark Heath wrote:
>>
>> Anyway I've been using the mpeg2 encoder in ffmpeg and have been
>> happy with the results.
>
> I asked recently on their mailing list if they solved the rate control
> issues and they said no.
>
> Kind of a big issue if the target media is DVD.
>


I use a max rate of 8500 (rather than the DVD specified limit of  
9800) and never had problems during muxing or had the files rejected  
by authoring software.  Maybe I'm just lucky.

I'll see if I can do some investigation.

Mark

“What if Microsoft had designed Windows Vista.”


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Re: [Mjpeg-users] workaround (PPC) for mpeg2enc's buggyness

[Florin Andrei]

Mark Heath wrote:
> 
> Anyway I've been using the mpeg2 encoder in ffmpeg and have been  
> happy with the results.

I asked recently on their mailing list if they solved the rate control 
issues and they said no.

Kind of a big issue if the target media is DVD.

-- 
Florin Andrei

http://florin.myip.org/

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Re: [Mjpeg-users] workaround (PPC) for mpeg2enc's buggyness

[Mark Heath]

On 17/01/2008, at 3:34 PM, Steven M. Schultz wrote:

>
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Christian Ebert wrote:
>
>> I get buffer underflows for longer stuff when encoding from dv to
>> mpeg2 for dvd with ffmpeg, and i really played around a lot with
>
>   That's the rate control issue(s) I had in mind.

I found that ffmpeg had trouble with DV files.

When I did direct conversions from DV to mpeg2 dvd constrained files,  
I found some strangeness that caused the frame rate of the dv file to  
increase, or drop frames, and therefore reduce the duration of the  
movie.  Due to the non-contiguous nature of the resulting dv file,  
the bitrate of the mpeg file would increase and couldn't be controlled.

I would always need to go via another tool before making the mpeg2  
file with ffmpeg.

>
>> the ever changing options...
>
>   Yep - hard to keep up sometimes.
>   
>> But I'd like to decode with lav2yuv, but it segfaults here on dv movs
>
>   Works fine here - BUT I have seen the problem you mentioned earlier
>   (symptom is that 'twos' audio isn't recognized as valid).


I have some hacky code which uses libav to do decoding (really wanted  
it after WMV3 support was added) to yuv4mpeg

check out: http://silicontrip.net/~mark/lavtools/

http://silicontrip.net/~mark/lavtools/libav2yuv.c

Maybe someone could make it a little more compiler friendly.  I think  
that it doesn't compile with the latest version of libav, and needs  
some libav_open calls changes (and structs made into pointers)  and I  
need a cvs system at home!


>> There's an Apple compressor for mpeg2?
>   
>   And 3gpp, H.264, AC3, MPEG-1, AAC, MPEG-4 and a bunch of others I'd
>   have to lookup.  "Compressor" (I'm only at Compressor2, not having
>   upgraded to 3) is Apple's compression engine frontend.  It's not
>   sold separately but only as part of the Final Cut Studio bundle
>   (a bit pricey but a fair value for the amount of software and
>   documentation you get).


Although doesn't come with mpeg2 encoding (or decoding, unless the  
quicktime component is installed) have a look at MPEG Streamclip
http://www.squared5.com/

Mark

“What if Microsoft had designed Windows Vista.”


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Re: [Mjpeg-users] workaround (PPC) for mpeg2enc's buggyness

[Steven M. Schultz]

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, Christian Ebert wrote:

> $ qtinfo test.mov
> Type: Quicktime
>   1 audio tracks.
> 2 channels, 16 bits, sample rate 48000, length 481920 samples, compressor 
> twos.
> Sample format: 16 bit signed.
> Channel setup: Not available
> Language: eng
> supported.
>   1 video tracks.
> 720x576, depth 24
> rate 25.00 [25:1] constant
> length 251 frames
> compressor dvcp.
> Native colormodel:  YUV 4:2:0 planar
> Interlace mode: Bottom field first
> Chroma placement: PAL DV
> Pixel aspect ratio: 59:54
> supported.
>   0 text tracks.

Ok - that says the plugins are being found.  Guess the problem you're
having, while similar, is not the same I had at one time.

> > (need that to include ffmpeg's libavcodec as I recall)
> 
> so dv decoding would actually be done with ffmpeg's libavcodec?

I was in error.  The gpl option is for faac/faad (AAC) audio modules.

libavcodec is used for dv even without the option mentioned.

> > If you still have problems the libquicktime-devel list is probably 
> > a better place to carry on the conversation.
> 
> will do.

See you over there ;)

> can't afford that atm.

Unfortunate.  It is a nice package with everything needed for good
video work.

Cheers,
Steven Schultz


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Re: [Mjpeg-users] workaround (PPC) for mpeg2enc's buggyness

[Christian Ebert]

* Steven M. Schultz on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 at 20:34:09 -0800
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Christian Ebert wrote:
>> But I'd like to decode with lav2yuv, but it segfaults here on dv movs
> 
> Works fine here - BUT I have seen the problem you mentioned earlier
> (symptom is that 'twos' audio isn't recognized as valid).

$ qtinfo test.mov
Type: Quicktime
  1 audio tracks.
2 channels, 16 bits, sample rate 48000, length 481920 samples, compressor 
twos.
Sample format: 16 bit signed.
Channel setup: Not available
Language: eng
supported.
  1 video tracks.
720x576, depth 24
rate 25.00 [25:1] constant
length 251 frames
compressor dvcp.
Native colormodel:  YUV 4:2:0 planar
Interlace mode: Bottom field first
Chroma placement: PAL DV
Pixel aspect ratio: 59:54
supported.
  0 text tracks.
 
>> What configure options do give to libquicktime? I'm asking as
>> you're on a Mac as well, even though I still have 10.4.
> 
> ./configure --enable-gpl

same here

> (need that to include ffmpeg's libavcodec as I recall)

so dv decoding would actually be done with ffmpeg's libavcodec?

> You may have a corrupt or outdated .libquicktime_codecs in your
> home directory.  Try removing it and then running any program 
> linked to libquicktime.  If .libquicktime_codecs IS recreated then
> things are setup/installed correctly and you shouldn't have any
> problems.  

unfortunately they persist.

> If .libquicktime_codecs is NOT recreated

it /is/ created.

> or is empty then libquicktime can't find the *.so files
> (loadable modules/plugins) for the codecs.
> 
> ls  /usr/local/lib/libquicktime
> 
> lqt_audiocodec.la lqt_ffmpeg.so   lqt_rtjpeg.la
> lqt_audiocodec.so lqt_lame.la lqt_rtjpeg.so
> lqt_dv.la lqt_lame.so lqt_videocodec.la
> lqt_dv.so lqt_mjpeg.lalqt_videocodec.so
> lqt_faac.la   lqt_mjpeg.solqt_vorbis.la
> lqt_faac.so   lqt_opendivx.la lqt_vorbis.so
> lqt_faad2.la  lqt_opendivx.so lqt_x264.la
> lqt_faad2.so  lqt_png.la  lqt_x264.so
> lqt_ffmpeg.la lqt_png.so

same here.

> If you still have problems the libquicktime-devel list is probably 
> a better place to carry on the conversation.

will do.

>> There's an Apple compressor for mpeg2?
> 
> And 3gpp, H.264, AC3, MPEG-1, AAC, MPEG-4 and a bunch of others I'd
> have to lookup.  "Compressor" (I'm only at Compressor2, not having
> upgraded to 3) is Apple's compression engine frontend.  It's not
> sold separately but only as part of the Final Cut Studio bundle 
> (a bit pricey but a fair value for the amount of software and 
> documentation you get).

can't afford that atm.

thanks a lot.

c
-- 
_B A U S T E L L E N_ lesen! --->> 

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Re: [Mjpeg-users] workaround (PPC) for mpeg2enc's buggyness

[Burkhard Plaum]

Hi,

Steven M. Schultz schrieb:
[...]
>> the ever changing options...
> 
>   Yep - hard to keep up sometimes.

You mean commandline options or internal options?
The internal options are VERY stable. As far as I see, the ffmpeg people really
care about API/ABI stability. The last incompatible change was in libavformat,
but that could be fixed with some trivial 5 line patches in my code.

The only thing I miss in ffmpeg is a proper Audio API. It's a planned feature,
but I think they didn't have enough flamewars yet to agree on an approach.
And then they would need someone to do the actual coding :)

[...]
>   ./configure --enable-gpl
> 
>   (need that to include ffmpeg's libavcodec as I recall)

No, it's for faad2 and x264. ffmpeg is LGPL.

[...]
>   If you still have problems the libquicktime-devel list is probably 
>   a better place to carry on the conversation.

Indeed

Burkhard

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Re: [Mjpeg-users] workaround (PPC) for mpeg2enc's buggyness

[Burkhard Plaum]

Hi,

Hervé Flores schrieb:

> no, movtoy4m is a tool from Johan Lindstrom, based on QuickTime API  
> for Mac by Apple (different from libavcodec)

Ah, I confused it with a similar tool from mjpegtools.

Burkhard

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Re: [Mjpeg-users] workaround (PPC) for mpeg2enc's buggyness

[Steven M. Schultz]

On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Christian Ebert wrote:

> I get buffer underflows for longer stuff when encoding from dv to
> mpeg2 for dvd with ffmpeg, and i really played around a lot with

That's the rate control issue(s) I had in mind.

> the ever changing options...

Yep - hard to keep up sometimes.

> But I'd like to decode with lav2yuv, but it segfaults here on dv movs

Works fine here - BUT I have seen the problem you mentioned earlier
(symptom is that 'twos' audio isn't recognized as valid).

> I've built the latest cvs libquicktime to no avail. No
> errors when compiling, small stuff like qtinfo works.

You're using the latest (and thanks for that info) from CVS. That's
good.

> What configure options do give to libquicktime? I'm asking as
> you're on a Mac as well, even though I still have 10.4.

./configure --enable-gpl

(need that to include ffmpeg's libavcodec as I recall)

You may have a corrupt or outdated .libquicktime_codecs in your
home directory.  Try removing it and then running any program 
linked to libquicktime.  If .libquicktime_codecs IS recreated then
things are setup/installed correctly and you shouldn't have any
problems.  

If .libquicktime_codecs is NOT recreated or is empty then libquicktime
can't find the *.so files (loadable modules/plugins) for the codecs.

ls  /usr/local/lib/libquicktime

lqt_audiocodec.la   lqt_ffmpeg.so   lqt_rtjpeg.la
lqt_audiocodec.so   lqt_lame.la lqt_rtjpeg.so
lqt_dv.la   lqt_lame.so lqt_videocodec.la
lqt_dv.so   lqt_mjpeg.lalqt_videocodec.so
lqt_faac.la lqt_mjpeg.solqt_vorbis.la
lqt_faac.so lqt_opendivx.la lqt_vorbis.so
lqt_faad2.lalqt_opendivx.so lqt_x264.la
lqt_faad2.solqt_png.la  lqt_x264.so
lqt_ffmpeg.la   lqt_png.so

You should NOT see ".dylib" files and you MUST have .so files.  At
one time there was a bug and either extensionless (no .so) or wrong
extension (.dylib) files were installed.  Since the code was looking
for .so only it didn't find anything.

If you still have problems the libquicktime-devel list is probably 
a better place to carry on the conversation.

Oh, 10.5 is fine if you're on a PPC based Mac.  If you're on an
Intel based Mac and want to run 10.5 then either 1) delete or 2) do
one last build/install of xvid, ffmpeg, theora, and a couple others 
I can't recall at the moment - they don't compile/link.

> There's an Apple compressor for mpeg2?

And 3gpp, H.264, AC3, MPEG-1, AAC, MPEG-4 and a bunch of others I'd
have to lookup.  "Compressor" (I'm only at Compressor2, not having
upgraded to 3) is Apple's compression engine frontend.  It's not
sold separately but only as part of the Final Cut Studio bundle 
(a bit pricey but a fair value for the amount of software and 
documentation you get).

Cheers,
Steven Schultz


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Re: [Mjpeg-users] workaround (PPC) for mpeg2enc's buggyness

[Christian Ebert]

* Steven M. Schultz on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 at 09:40:42 -0800
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Mark Heath wrote:
>> Anyway I've been using the mpeg2 encoder in ffmpeg and have been  

I get buffer underflows for longer stuff when encoding from dv to
mpeg2 for dvd with ffmpeg, and i really played around a lot with
the ever changing options. The most annoying thing is when
everything works on a small test file, and then, after a night of
encoding ... duh.

> I'm 1 step away from deleting ffmpeg from the system.  You're 
> obviously not running on a Intel Mac with OSX 10.5 or you'd know
> it's no longer possible to build a shared version of ffmpeg(libavcodec).
> At one time the ffmpeg crowd valued speed over quality and had
> horrible rate control.  That may have, and probably has, change. Now
> they don't care the program's not buildable.  I unsubscribed from
> all of thair lists and my stress level went way way down.  Anyhow
> ffmpeg is not an option (for me).

atm I need ffmpeg for decoding to yuv, and encoding to ac3.

ac3 is ok.

But I'd like to decode with lav2yuv, but it segfaults here on dv
movs. I've built the latest cvs libquicktime to no avail. No
errors when compiling, small stuff like qtinfo works.

What configure options do give to libquicktime? I'm asking as
you're on a Mac as well, even though I still have 10.4.

> I wouldn't mind an alterative but with mpeg2enc "in progress" and
> ffmpeg unbuildable, well, the choices are limited.  Apple's 
> Compressor is pretty good - could use that I guess.

There's an Apple compressor for mpeg2?

c
-- 
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_HÖLDERLIN: H Y P E R I O N_ 

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Re: [Mjpeg-users] workaround (PPC) for mpeg2enc's buggyness

[Steven M. Schultz]

On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Mark Heath wrote:

> I've used bitVice professionally and I have found it's constraints  
> too limiting.  Maybe it was just the version I was using.

You must have used version 1.0 ;)

Most of the items listed are not relevant to the current version.

True, it's limited to MP-ML (max frame size of 720x576).  Since HD
DVD (or Blu-Ray) authoring and burning are in the future that 
limitation is tolerable for now.

It is NOT limited to quicktime files.  Any file that the Quicktime API
installed on the system can read is acceptable.  I've used AVI files
for example.

I'll not bother with the other points except to say they're either
not correct or not important (especially when making DVDs at home ;))
movies ;))

> Anyway I've been using the mpeg2 encoder in ffmpeg and have been  

I'm 1 step away from deleting ffmpeg from the system.  You're 
obviously not running on a Intel Mac with OSX 10.5 or you'd know
it's no longer possible to build a shared version of ffmpeg(libavcodec).
At one time the ffmpeg crowd valued speed over quality and had
horrible rate control.  That may have, and probably has, change. Now
they don't care the program's not buildable.  I unsubscribed from
all of thair lists and my stress level went way way down.  Anyhow
ffmpeg is not an option (for me).

I wouldn't mind an alterative but with mpeg2enc "in progress" and
ffmpeg unbuildable, well, the choices are limited.  Apple's 
Compressor is pretty good - could use that I guess.

Cheers,
Steven Schultz


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Re: [Mjpeg-users] workaround (PPC) for mpeg2enc's buggyness

[Hervé Flores]

Le 16 janv. 08 à 14:11, Burkhard Plaum a écrit :

> Hi,
>
> Hervé Flores schrieb:
>> Le 16 janv. 08 à 04:40, Steven M. Schultz a écrit :
>>
>>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Christian Ebert wrote:
>>
>>
>> [...]
>> mjpeg tools too can do the trick ;-)
>>
>> decode DV with ffmpeg | yuvdenoise ... | mpeg2enc
>> or (bad soluce)
>> decode DV with movtoy4m (lose of one field, gamma garbage due
>> QuickTime.framework) | yuvdenoise ... | yuvcorrect for gamma
>> correction | mpeg2enc
>
> Why loose one field?

movtoy4m does not decode interlaced streams (only half of the stream =  
one field, or blend the 2 fields with some parameter) due the great  
apple's quickTime automatisms.
To preserve CPU cunsumption, Apple (=QuickTime) has 3 levels of  
displays: quarter, half and full image(you can see them selecting the  
video track in QuickTime player and plays with).
The API and documentation fom apple to display interlaced files is  
buggy, Johan code is OK (theoricaly) but it only manages to blend the  
2 fields (complain to Apple ;-))

> Why gamma garbage?

QT player displays a darker image than input file (and all quicktime  
calls from QuickTime.framework do the same)

> movtoy4m uses exactly the same code (libavcodec) for DV decoding
> as ffmpeg, so the output should be identical. If it's not, there
> is something wrong.

no, movtoy4m is a tool from Johan Lindstrom, based on QuickTime API  
for Mac by Apple (different from libavcodec)
It has the same defaults as QuickTime Player (displays chroma as  
progressive instead of interlaced with DV, etc), but it's a very cool  
tool.

(this thread begins to be a Mac-only thread ;-))

sorry for my great level of english...

bye

Hervé


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Re: [Mjpeg-users] workaround (PPC) for mpeg2enc's buggyness

[Mark Heath]

On 16/01/2008, at 2:28 AM, Christian Ebert wrote:

> * Steven M. Schultz on Friday, March 23, 2007 at 00:48:14 -0700
>> If you're using a PPC and OS/X there is a fantastically high quality
>> workaround for mpeg2enc's current buggy state.
>>
>> The BitVice encoder from:
>>
>>http://www.innobits.com/
>>
>> works _great_.  Not all the inner tweeking capability I'm used to
>> but the quality has to be seen to believed...

I've used bitVice professionally and I have found it's constraints  
too limiting.
Maybe it was just the version I was using.

It couldn't create files less than 2mbit average bit rate.
It would only do 2 passes, couldn't do 1 pass.
It couldn't do constant quality, it would only do average bitrate.
It would only create a constrained mpeg file, the dimensions had to  
be 720/704x576/480
It would only read quicktime files.
It couldn't be scripted.

Which was ok for the majority of work the company was doing but when  
marketing decided they needed files taken from the web rather than  
from our ingest suite.  These limitations started causing problems.

Anyway I've been using the mpeg2 encoder in ffmpeg and have been  
happy with the results.  Of course most of my source material is mpeg  
4 part 2 so any encoding artefacts I see I blame on the source :-)

ffmpeg can read yuv4mpeg streams from stdin, just incase you don't  
know the command line is:

yuvcommand | ffmpeg -f yuv4mpegpipe -i - -moreffmpegoptionshere


Mark

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Re: [Mjpeg-users] workaround (PPC) for mpeg2enc's buggyness

[Burkhard Plaum]

Hi,

Hervé Flores schrieb:
> Le 16 janv. 08 à 04:40, Steven M. Schultz a écrit :
> 
>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Christian Ebert wrote:
> 
> 
> [...]
> mjpeg tools too can do the trick ;-)
> 
> decode DV with ffmpeg | yuvdenoise ... | mpeg2enc
> or (bad soluce)
> decode DV with movtoy4m (lose of one field, gamma garbage due  
> QuickTime.framework) | yuvdenoise ... | yuvcorrect for gamma  
> correction | mpeg2enc

Why loose one field? Why gamma garbage?

movtoy4m uses exactly the same code (libavcodec) for DV decoding
as ffmpeg, so the output should be identical. If it's not, there
is something wrong.

> PS: for audio "twos" = wav (or aif, I don't remeber if twos is aif and  
> swot is wav or vice-versa)

twos = big endian -> aiff
sowt = little endian -> wav

Burkhard

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Re: [Mjpeg-users] workaround (PPC) for mpeg2enc's buggyness

[Hervé Flores]

Le 16 janv. 08 à 04:40, Steven M. Schultz a écrit :

>
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Christian Ebert wrote:


[...]
mjpeg tools too can do the trick ;-)

decode DV with ffmpeg | yuvdenoise ... | mpeg2enc
or (bad soluce)
decode DV with movtoy4m (lose of one field, gamma garbage due  
QuickTime.framework) | yuvdenoise ... | yuvcorrect for gamma  
correction | mpeg2enc

BitVice is not the only soluce Steven ;-)))

PS: for audio "twos" = wav (or aif, I don't remeber if twos is aif and  
swot is wav or vice-versa)
use directly QuickTime Player / mpegstreamclip / FCE / or movtowav to  
extract audio from DV and encode it to ac3 with ffmpeg, thus mux with  
mplex.

bye

Hervé
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Re: [Mjpeg-users] workaround (PPC) for mpeg2enc's buggyness

[Steven M. Schultz]

On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Christian Ebert wrote:

> > Which says:

> > DV Color Correction - DV Luma Correction
> > DV Luma Correction has changed as of BitVice 1.4. If you create
> > video with iMovie, Final Cut Pro or other programs using the Apple
> > DV Codec, then check the DV Luma box. The Apple DV Codec

> > changes luma values when going from RGB to DV ...
> > Again, this is only for users of the Apple DV Codec.

> > That's the DV Color correction checkbox option.

Ok - two checkboxes.  One is the Color correction one and the other
was called (in 1.4 and earlier) DV Luma Correction.  

> Ermh, from :

> |Minor GUI changes
> |DV Luma Correction changed to Use gamma 2.2 which is more accurate 
> nomenclature

The name was changed and and the box is selected by default.

> |DV luma correction, is a filter for DV movies, which have gamma
> |1.8 as standard. This will make the resulting MPEG2 picture too
> |dark for TV. Check this box to correct that problem before
> |encoding QT DV movies. But use your eyes.
> 
> [ the last sentence being my biggest trouble ;) ]

 My biggest trouble is the first sentence (how do you know what
 setting was used - I think 1.8 is uncommon/rare/obsolete) combined 
 with the default setting of 2.2.  The default being 2.2 tells me
 that the checkbox only exists for the (rare) case (probably 
 of an incorrectly built camcorder ;-))

> Sorry for being stubborn but I think you've got it the wrong way around.

Wouldn't be the first time. 

My turn to be a bit stubborn -  I don't think the setting is needed
or useful anymore and not something that mjpegtools has any use for.

The bug was (is? - may be fixed by now after all this time) when
Apple's DV codec was used to convert between RGB and DV.  If you're
not doing that then don't worry about it.

> movtoy4m  speaks of a
> similar issue.

That's a bug in movtoy4m from my reading of the page.Unclear
if it was in the ffmpeg libraries or introduced by movtoy4m elsewhere.

Haven't done much with DV since 2006 but that movie came out fine.

Cheers,
Steven Schultz


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Re: [Mjpeg-users] workaround (PPC) for mpeg2enc's buggyness

[Christian Ebert]

Hi Steve,

* Steven M. Schultz on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 at 13:10:30 -0800
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Christian Ebert wrote:

[...]

 BTW. is there a way to get the Luma Correction (gamma2.2) from
 mjpegtools (I'm encoding QuickTime files edited with Final Cut)?
>>> 
> 
>> bitvice Users Guide, page 13/14.
> 
> Which says:
> 
> DV Color Correction - DV Luma Correction
> DV Luma Correction has changed as of BitVice 1.4. If you create
> video with iMovie, Final Cut Pro or other programs using the Apple
> DV Codec, then check the DV Luma box. The Apple DV Codec
> changes luma values when going from RGB to DV ...
> Again, this is only for users of the Apple DV Codec.
> 
> That's the DV Color correction checkbox option.

Ermh, from :

|Minor GUI changes
|DV Luma Correction changed to Use gamma 2.2 which is more accurate nomenclature

And the mouseover for gamma 2.2 tells me:

|DV luma correction, is a filter for DV movies, which have gamma
|1.8 as standard. This will make the resulting MPEG2 picture too
|dark for TV. Check this box to correct that problem before
|encoding QT DV movies. But use your eyes.

[ the last sentence being my biggest trouble ;) ]
 
> The DV Luma Correction checkbox is described thus:
> 
> However, NTSC users will find that their DVD may look lighter than their DV
> tape did. This is because of a flaw in the way NTSC DV camcorders
> output an analog signal. We explain more about that in the discussion
> 
> You're using PAL so the checkbox is (or should be as No-Op) not
> important.  
> 
> That's from version 1.4 of the manual.  Seems very strange to me
> that the software's at 1.7 but the downloadable manual hasn't been
> updated (that I could see).
> 
> Being in PAL land you do not have to worry about the NTSC setup.

Sorry for being stubborn but I think you've got it the wrong way
around.

movtoy4m  speaks of a
similar issue.

c
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Re: [Mjpeg-users] workaround (PPC) for mpeg2enc's buggyness

[Steven M. Schultz]

On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Christian Ebert wrote:

Hi Christian -

> On samples with /very/ noisy source material I just don't see the

Denoise it first ;)

> slightly clearer, but little jumps. I have pal-dv source
> material, in case it matters.

So the 'DV Luma Correction' does not apply to your situation.

> As an aside lav2yuv doesn't work on my Mac, perhaps some mistake
> in my libquicktime build, I get
> 
> [codecs] Warning: Could not find audio Decoder for fourcc twos
> [codecs] Warning: quicktime_decode_audio_stub called
> [codecs] Warning: Could not find video Decoder for fourcc dvcp
> [codecs] Warning: quicktime_decode_video_stub called

I've seen that.  It is indeed related to the libquicktime 
build/configuration.  

> Must be blind then, it looks almost more "pixely" to me.

I wonder if that isn't the noise being more accurately encoded.  

(The reason I switched encoders should be apparent now if you've
 had time to view the sample encodings and test data)

> >> BTW. is there a way to get the Luma Correction (gamma2.2) from
> >> mjpegtools (I'm encoding QuickTime files edited with Final Cut)?
> > 

> bitvice Users Guide, page 13/14.

Which says:

DV Color Correction - DV Luma Correction
DV Luma Correction has changed as of BitVice 1.4. If you create
video with iMovie, Final Cut Pro or other programs using the Apple
DV Codec, then check the DV Luma box. The Apple DV Codec
changes luma values when going from RGB to DV ...
Again, this is only for users of the Apple DV Codec.

That's the DV Color correction checkbox option.

The DV Luma Correction checkbox is described thus:

However, NTSC users will find that their DVD may look lighter than their DV
tape did. This is because of a flaw in the way NTSC DV camcorders
output an analog signal. We explain more about that in the discussion

You're using PAL so the checkbox is (or should be as No-Op) not
important.  

That's from version 1.4 of the manual.  Seems very strange to me
that the software's at 1.7 but the downloadable manual hasn't been
updated (that I could see).

Being in PAL land you do not have to worry about the NTSC setup.

> Actually Final Cut Express HD only, does enough for me needs.

Good enough for DV work but I think that's as far as it goes.

> Thanks for all your input!

Welcome.

Cheers,
Steven Schultz


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Re: [Mjpeg-users] workaround (PPC) for mpeg2enc's buggyness

[Christian Ebert]

Hi Steve,

* Steven M. Schultz on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 at 08:10:24 -0800
> 
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Christian Ebert wrote:
> 
>> Hm, I played around a bit with the demo and am not convinced.
> 
> I've done a lot more than play around with the demo and I am
> completely convinced ;)
> 
>> Especially with bitrate around 4500 to get a 2h video on a singel
>> layer dvd, I get lots of square pixels with noisy material.
> 
> You're supposed to denoise first ...

On samples with /very/ noisy source material I just don't see the
difference, it just slows down encoding; and I remember that
sometimes I might have got /slightly/ better quality, pictures
slightly clearer, but little jumps. I have pal-dv source
material, in case it matters.

I use 1.9.0rc1 mpeg2enc, or latest cvs.

ffmpeg -i source.mov -an -f yuv4mpegpipe - \
| mpeg2enc -o target.m2v -f 8 -b 4500 -F 3 -g 3 -G 15 -q 2 -r 32 -4 1 -2 1 -K 
tmpgenc -D 10

As an aside lav2yuv doesn't work on my Mac, perhaps some mistake
in my libquicktime build, I get

[codecs] Warning: Could not find audio Decoder for fourcc twos
[codecs] Warning: quicktime_decode_audio_stub called
[codecs] Warning: Could not find video Decoder for fourcc dvcp
[codecs] Warning: quicktime_decode_video_stub called

>> Perhaps I haven't found the right tweakings, but so far mpeg2enc
>> handles this much better.
> 
> Not in my case - 4500 to 6000 with properly processed input looks
> far superior with Bitvice.

Must be blind then, it looks almost more "pixely" to me.

I've tried both just as is, and with IntraDC set to 10 plus DVNC
set to 10: hm, I still think mpeg2enc is at least equal.

But I'll experiment some more.

>> BTW. is there a way to get the Luma Correction (gamma2.2) from
>> mjpegtools (I'm encoding QuickTime files edited with Final Cut)?
>> So far I've almost been using mpeg2enc, where/in which docs should I look?
> 
> I have no idea what that's about.  Wasn't aware that any gamma
> correction is required if the chain of processing is setup right.

bitvice Users Guide, page 13/14.

> If you're running FCP then you might also be interested in:

Actually Final Cut Express HD only, does enough for me needs.
> 
> http://www.mattias.nu/plugins/

Thanks for that link.

> The temporal denoise filter ghosts too much in my opinion but the
> spatial filter does an excellent job of reducing noise.  And the
> price is right - free ;)

heh, I'll look into it.

> if you have some money to spend then:

nonono!

> http://www.cgm-online.com/eiperle/cgm_e.html
> 
> is worth looking at (I have an earlier version of those)

I will.

Thanks for all your input!

c
-- 
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_HÖLDERLIN: H Y P E R I O N_ 

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Re: [Mjpeg-users] workaround (PPC) for mpeg2enc's buggyness

[Steven M. Schultz]

On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Christian Ebert wrote:

> Hm, I played around a bit with the demo and am not convinced.

I've done a lot more than play around with the demo and I am
completely convinced ;)

> Especially with bitrate around 4500 to get a 2h video on a singel
> layer dvd, I get lots of square pixels with noisy material.

You're supposed to denoise first ...

> Perhaps I haven't found the right tweakings, but so far mpeg2enc
> handles this much better.

Not in my case - 4500 to 6000 with properly processed input looks
far superior with Bitvice.

> BTW. is there a way to get the Luma Correction (gamma2.2) from
> mjpegtools (I'm encoding QuickTime files edited with Final Cut)?
> So far I've almost been using mpeg2enc, where/in which docs should I look?

I have no idea what that's about.  Wasn't aware that any gamma
correction is required if the chain of processing is setup right.

If you're running FCP then you might also be interested in:

http://www.mattias.nu/plugins/

The temporal denoise filter ghosts too much in my opinion but the
spatial filter does an excellent job of reducing noise.  And the
price is right - free ;)

if you have some money to spend then:

http://www.cgm-online.com/eiperle/cgm_e.html

is worth looking at (I have an earlier version of those)

Cheers,
Steven Schultz


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Re: [Mjpeg-users] workaround (PPC) for mpeg2enc's buggyness

[Christian Ebert]

* Steven M. Schultz on Friday, March 23, 2007 at 00:48:14 -0700
> If you're using a PPC and OS/X there is a fantastically high quality
> workaround for mpeg2enc's current buggy state.
> 
> The BitVice encoder from:
> 
>http://www.innobits.com/
> 
> works _great_.  Not all the inner tweeking capability I'm used to
> but the quality has to be seen to believed...

Hm, I played around a bit with the demo and am not convinced.
Especially with bitrate around 4500 to get a 2h video on a singel
layer dvd, I get lots of square pixels with noisy material.
Perhaps I haven't found the right tweakings, but so far mpeg2enc
handles this much better.

So, a big heads up for the mpeg2enc developer(s)!

BTW. is there a way to get the Luma Correction (gamma2.2) from
mjpegtools (I'm encoding QuickTime files edited with Final Cut)?
So far I've almost been using mpeg2enc, where/in which docs
should I look?

c
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Re: [Mjpeg-users] workaround (PPC) for mpeg2enc's buggyness

[Christian Ebert]

* Steven M. Schultz on Friday, March 23, 2007 at 00:48:14 -0700:
>   If you're using a PPC and OS/X there is a fantastically high quality
>   workaround for mpeg2enc's current buggy state.
> 
>   The BitVice encoder from:
> 
>  http://www.innobits.com/
> 
>   works _great_.  Not all the inner tweeking capability I'm used to
>   but the quality has to be seen to believed...

It'd better be, for $349 ;)

c
-- 
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[Mjpeg-users] workaround (PPC) for mpeg2enc's buggyness

[Steven M. Schultz]

Howdy -

If you're using a PPC and OS/X there is a fantastically high quality
workaround for mpeg2enc's current buggy state.

The BitVice encoder from:

   http://www.innobits.com/

works _great_.  Not all the inner tweeking capability I'm used to
but the quality has to be seen to believed...

Cheers,
Steven Schultz

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