Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

2016-02-29 Thread Chad Rebuck 
The key in the cam gear is only there for the alignment until the bolt is
tightened. It doesn't really hold the cam gear in place once the bolt is
tightened.  Same for the crank pulley too.  The key can break if the bolt
gets loose enough for it to turn.

I'm just curious how the engine sounds as you said it ran smoother for a
short while when you opened up the throttle.

I'm about out of ideas.  If you take it to a shop the first thing they're
going to do is check the timing again and check the compression I bet.
On Feb 29, 2016 9:05 PM, "damac2004"  wrote:

> im afraid to run this car for long but what would be better, a video from
> the engine bay or tailpipe?
>
> i didn't change the plug order, etc. when doing all this work, just popped
> the distributor off and layed it in engine bay with battery out.
>
> the cam i took off the car did have the cam gear tooth broken but it
> didn't move based on how the keyway lined up, is that surprising?  i bought
> another cam pulley off a vortex member and he sold it to me the exact same
> way and told me every one he has taken off came the same way?  i thought
> that was nuts but have seen through forums searching it has happened to
> others.  i got a new cam pulley while doing all this work and its still
> fine.  and i have to assume the crank is fine as well since it was good
> running and all the marks are lining up correctly still.
>
> On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 5:56:38 PM UTC-8, chadrebuck wrote:
>>
>> Also check that the cam sprocket is located in the right place on the
>> cam. If the tooth broke off of the cam gear then it could rotate causing
>> the timing to be incorrect. Did you mention that the cam sprocket had a
>> broken locating tooth?
>> On Feb 29, 2016 7:47 PM, "Chad Rebuck"  wrote:
>>
>>> Changing the cams out will be a waste of time. What did you do to verify
>>> the spark plug wire order? Can you take a video of how the car is running?
>>> On Feb 29, 2016 7:39 PM, "damac2004"  wrote:
>>>
 i put the techtronics chip back in and put the older throttle body back
 in with no changes in how the car is acting.  i also checked grounds and
 ran some extras to the bundle on head, etc. just in case.

 my issues make for a useless car, no way it could be driven.  so my
 problems seem way beyond the little tuning people do to get their cars
 running right.  this car ran and drove when i got it with very old and worn
 injector seals and numerous vacuum lines with holes in it. it ran its best
 when hot and on the throttle never gave out on me or died. although it had
 goofy issues with starting consistently and idling a little
 high/rough/inconsistent at times.

 and i see people mention 02 sensors and cts making for a rough running
 car possibly but again this is way worse than that.

 i'm stuck so tomorrow i am going to put the old cams, etc. back on and
 cross my fingers.

 On Saturday, February 27, 2016 at 8:41:59 PM UTC-8, hollandphillips
 wrote:
>
> Since the Mk 2 cars were all pre OBD, they had only one O2 sensor
> which was mounted before the cat. So the ECU never knew if the cat even
> existed or was functioning properly. Now that I think about it, if the O2
> sensor has no output, or was not connected, the ECU will go into "safe
> mode", which is full rich. Hence your poor fuel mileage. I also recalled
> that the O2 sensor on the Motronic cars is a three wire type, which means
> it has a heater, so its output will become valid more quickly in order to
> reduce emissions. All this is bringing back memories of all the 16V trivia
> I acquired over the years. šŸ˜
>
> ~Holland
> On Feb 27, 2016 20:00, "damac2004"  wrote:
>
>> i could test compression but it it did drive fine before i tore it
>> all apart, after this incident.
>>
>> this car had no cat so 02 sensor was laying underneath airbox this
>> whole time :).
>>
>> i thought the car stunk and i got bad mileage but this car was fun to
>> drive. i was beating on itand it pulled when i stomped on it all the time
>>
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Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

2016-02-29 Thread damac2004 
im afraid to run this car for long but what would be better, a video from 
the engine bay or tailpipe?

i didn't change the plug order, etc. when doing all this work, just popped 
the distributor off and layed it in engine bay with battery out.

the cam i took off the car did have the cam gear tooth broken but it didn't 
move based on how the keyway lined up, is that surprising?  i bought 
another cam pulley off a vortex member and he sold it to me the exact same 
way and told me every one he has taken off came the same way?  i thought 
that was nuts but have seen through forums searching it has happened to 
others.  i got a new cam pulley while doing all this work and its still 
fine.  and i have to assume the crank is fine as well since it was good 
running and all the marks are lining up correctly still.

On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 5:56:38 PM UTC-8, chadrebuck wrote:
>
> Also check that the cam sprocket is located in the right place on the cam. 
> If the tooth broke off of the cam gear then it could rotate causing the 
> timing to be incorrect. Did you mention that the cam sprocket had a broken 
> locating tooth?
> On Feb 29, 2016 7:47 PM, "Chad Rebuck" > 
> wrote:
>
>> Changing the cams out will be a waste of time. What did you do to verify 
>> the spark plug wire order? Can you take a video of how the car is running?
>> On Feb 29, 2016 7:39 PM, "damac2004" > 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> i put the techtronics chip back in and put the older throttle body back 
>>> in with no changes in how the car is acting.  i also checked grounds and 
>>> ran some extras to the bundle on head, etc. just in case.
>>>
>>> my issues make for a useless car, no way it could be driven.  so my 
>>> problems seem way beyond the little tuning people do to get their cars 
>>> running right.  this car ran and drove when i got it with very old and worn 
>>> injector seals and numerous vacuum lines with holes in it. it ran its best 
>>> when hot and on the throttle never gave out on me or died. although it had 
>>> goofy issues with starting consistently and idling a little 
>>> high/rough/inconsistent at times.
>>>
>>> and i see people mention 02 sensors and cts making for a rough running 
>>> car possibly but again this is way worse than that.
>>>
>>> i'm stuck so tomorrow i am going to put the old cams, etc. back on and 
>>> cross my fingers.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, February 27, 2016 at 8:41:59 PM UTC-8, hollandphillips 
>>> wrote:

 Since the Mk 2 cars were all pre OBD, they had only one O2 sensor which 
 was mounted before the cat. So the ECU never knew if the cat even existed 
 or was functioning properly. Now that I think about it, if the O2 sensor 
 has no output, or was not connected, the ECU will go into "safe mode", 
 which is full rich. Hence your poor fuel mileage. I also recalled that the 
 O2 sensor on the Motronic cars is a three wire type, which means it has a 
 heater, so its output will become valid more quickly in order to reduce 
 emissions. All this is bringing back memories of all the 16V trivia I 
 acquired over the years. šŸ˜

 ~Holland
 On Feb 27, 2016 20:00, "damac2004"  wrote:

> i could test compression but it it did drive fine before i tore it all 
> apart, after this incident.
>
> this car had no cat so 02 sensor was laying underneath airbox this 
> whole time :).
>
> i thought the car stunk and i got bad mileage but this car was fun to 
> drive. i was beating on itand it pulled when i stomped on it all the time
>
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Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

2016-02-29 Thread Chad Rebuck 
Also check that the cam sprocket is located in the right place on the cam.
If the tooth broke off of the cam gear then it could rotate causing the
timing to be incorrect. Did you mention that the cam sprocket had a broken
locating tooth?
On Feb 29, 2016 7:47 PM, "Chad Rebuck"  wrote:

> Changing the cams out will be a waste of time. What did you do to verify
> the spark plug wire order? Can you take a video of how the car is running?
> On Feb 29, 2016 7:39 PM, "damac2004"  wrote:
>
>> i put the techtronics chip back in and put the older throttle body back
>> in with no changes in how the car is acting.  i also checked grounds and
>> ran some extras to the bundle on head, etc. just in case.
>>
>> my issues make for a useless car, no way it could be driven.  so my
>> problems seem way beyond the little tuning people do to get their cars
>> running right.  this car ran and drove when i got it with very old and worn
>> injector seals and numerous vacuum lines with holes in it. it ran its best
>> when hot and on the throttle never gave out on me or died. although it had
>> goofy issues with starting consistently and idling a little
>> high/rough/inconsistent at times.
>>
>> and i see people mention 02 sensors and cts making for a rough running
>> car possibly but again this is way worse than that.
>>
>> i'm stuck so tomorrow i am going to put the old cams, etc. back on and
>> cross my fingers.
>>
>> On Saturday, February 27, 2016 at 8:41:59 PM UTC-8, hollandphillips wrote:
>>>
>>> Since the Mk 2 cars were all pre OBD, they had only one O2 sensor which
>>> was mounted before the cat. So the ECU never knew if the cat even existed
>>> or was functioning properly. Now that I think about it, if the O2 sensor
>>> has no output, or was not connected, the ECU will go into "safe mode",
>>> which is full rich. Hence your poor fuel mileage. I also recalled that the
>>> O2 sensor on the Motronic cars is a three wire type, which means it has a
>>> heater, so its output will become valid more quickly in order to reduce
>>> emissions. All this is bringing back memories of all the 16V trivia I
>>> acquired over the years. šŸ˜
>>>
>>> ~Holland
>>> On Feb 27, 2016 20:00, "damac2004"  wrote:
>>>
 i could test compression but it it did drive fine before i tore it all
 apart, after this incident.

 this car had no cat so 02 sensor was laying underneath airbox this
 whole time :).

 i thought the car stunk and i got bad mileage but this car was fun to
 drive. i was beating on itand it pulled when i stomped on it all the time

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Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

2016-02-29 Thread Chad Rebuck 
Changing the cams out will be a waste of time. What did you do to verify
the spark plug wire order? Can you take a video of how the car is running?
On Feb 29, 2016 7:39 PM, "damac2004"  wrote:

> i put the techtronics chip back in and put the older throttle body back in
> with no changes in how the car is acting.  i also checked grounds and ran
> some extras to the bundle on head, etc. just in case.
>
> my issues make for a useless car, no way it could be driven.  so my
> problems seem way beyond the little tuning people do to get their cars
> running right.  this car ran and drove when i got it with very old and worn
> injector seals and numerous vacuum lines with holes in it. it ran its best
> when hot and on the throttle never gave out on me or died. although it had
> goofy issues with starting consistently and idling a little
> high/rough/inconsistent at times.
>
> and i see people mention 02 sensors and cts making for a rough running car
> possibly but again this is way worse than that.
>
> i'm stuck so tomorrow i am going to put the old cams, etc. back on and
> cross my fingers.
>
> On Saturday, February 27, 2016 at 8:41:59 PM UTC-8, hollandphillips wrote:
>>
>> Since the Mk 2 cars were all pre OBD, they had only one O2 sensor which
>> was mounted before the cat. So the ECU never knew if the cat even existed
>> or was functioning properly. Now that I think about it, if the O2 sensor
>> has no output, or was not connected, the ECU will go into "safe mode",
>> which is full rich. Hence your poor fuel mileage. I also recalled that the
>> O2 sensor on the Motronic cars is a three wire type, which means it has a
>> heater, so its output will become valid more quickly in order to reduce
>> emissions. All this is bringing back memories of all the 16V trivia I
>> acquired over the years. šŸ˜
>>
>> ~Holland
>> On Feb 27, 2016 20:00, "damac2004"  wrote:
>>
>>> i could test compression but it it did drive fine before i tore it all
>>> apart, after this incident.
>>>
>>> this car had no cat so 02 sensor was laying underneath airbox this whole
>>> time :).
>>>
>>> i thought the car stunk and i got bad mileage but this car was fun to
>>> drive. i was beating on itand it pulled when i stomped on it all the time
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "MK2-16v" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to mk2-16v+u...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mk2-16v/c9b6bb5d-ae7b-4c28-8f59-aa4b98cee00c%40googlegroups.com
>>> .
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
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Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?

2016-02-29 Thread damac2004 
i put the techtronics chip back in and put the older throttle body back in 
with no changes in how the car is acting.  i also checked grounds and ran 
some extras to the bundle on head, etc. just in case.

my issues make for a useless car, no way it could be driven.  so my 
problems seem way beyond the little tuning people do to get their cars 
running right.  this car ran and drove when i got it with very old and worn 
injector seals and numerous vacuum lines with holes in it. it ran its best 
when hot and on the throttle never gave out on me or died. although it had 
goofy issues with starting consistently and idling a little 
high/rough/inconsistent at times.

and i see people mention 02 sensors and cts making for a rough running car 
possibly but again this is way worse than that.

i'm stuck so tomorrow i am going to put the old cams, etc. back on and 
cross my fingers.

On Saturday, February 27, 2016 at 8:41:59 PM UTC-8, hollandphillips wrote:
>
> Since the Mk 2 cars were all pre OBD, they had only one O2 sensor which 
> was mounted before the cat. So the ECU never knew if the cat even existed 
> or was functioning properly. Now that I think about it, if the O2 sensor 
> has no output, or was not connected, the ECU will go into "safe mode", 
> which is full rich. Hence your poor fuel mileage. I also recalled that the 
> O2 sensor on the Motronic cars is a three wire type, which means it has a 
> heater, so its output will become valid more quickly in order to reduce 
> emissions. All this is bringing back memories of all the 16V trivia I 
> acquired over the years. šŸ˜
>
> ~Holland
> On Feb 27, 2016 20:00, "damac2004" > 
> wrote:
>
>> i could test compression but it it did drive fine before i tore it all 
>> apart, after this incident.
>>
>> this car had no cat so 02 sensor was laying underneath airbox this whole 
>> time :).
>>
>> i thought the car stunk and i got bad mileage but this car was fun to 
>> drive. i was beating on itand it pulled when i stomped on it all the time
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MK2-16v" group.
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>> email to mk2-16v+u...@googlegroups.com .
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>> .
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>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>

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RE: [mk2-16v] Rust Resistance on Restored Fasteners and Metal? (Main Fuel Pump Assembly)

2016-02-29 Thread Holland Phillips 
For a HUGE selection of fasteners, as well as just about anything else you
can think of, try McMaster-Carr
www.mcmaster.com
Those guys have more stuff than you can believe. Back in the day of paper
catalogs, theirs was larger than a NYC phone directory, or three. I used to
spend hours just browsing their website.

~Holland
On Feb 29, 2016 09:45, "Larry Velez"  wrote:

> Thanks for the tips Jack.   I was thinking of using Por15 on the bracket
> (Por15 seems to have a lot of fans) but I will also look at Rustoleum
> Hammered.
>
>
>
> Iā€™ll check my local True Value for their fastener selection. These
> guys also seem to have retail stores but I have never been to one:
> https://www.fastenal.com/
>
>
>
> Iā€™ll see what I can find there,  and if not Iā€™ll use Hollandā€™s trick to
> paint the tops of the fasteners and coat the threads with LocTite Blue.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> -Larry
>
>
>
> *From:* mk2-16v@googlegroups.com [mailto:mk2-16v@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Jack Simon
> *Sent:* Monday, February 29, 2016 12:12 PM
> *To:* mk2-16v@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [mk2-16v] Rust Resistance on Restored Fasteners and Metal?
> (Main Fuel Pump Assembly)
>
>
>
> WD40 evaporates quickly but for temporary protection it would suit
> although I'd use P'Blaster as it leaves a film that does not go away and
> actually lubricates.  That's why it does such a nice job in protecting
> electrical connections.
>
>
>
> Rustoleum Hammered would be my choice for the final paint, especially
> since you already have it primered.  That stuff is a take-off of an old
> British product called Hammerite that was sold here in the U.S. until VOC
> regulations got it banned.  It is, however, back and Sherwin-Williams
> stores now carry it.
>
>
>
> As far as replacement hardware goes, I've always used new Stainless nuts,
> bolts, washers, etc. along with LocTite Blue (Medium strength) so that
> disassembling them at some point in the future will be relatively easy.
> Using LocTite RED usually requires a blowtorch and an Act of God to get
> them loosened!!  Most local hardware stores that carry Hillman or Midwest
> Fasteners products should be a good source.  After I retired I spent 10
> years working for a local True Value and their selection was all Midwest
> Fasteners and rarely was I forced to go elsewhere.  Their "Nuts & Bolts"
> area consisted of two 40 foot aisles lined on both sides with everything
> imaginable.
>
>
>
> Good luck...Jack
>
>
>
> On 29 Feb 2016, at 11:25, Larry Velez wrote:
>
>
>
> Any tips on how to move forward from this point would be welcome.   I will
> spray the bracket with rustoleum now that it is primered and I sprayed the
> fasteners with WD40 for now, but Iā€™m thinking I need something more
> permanent before it all goes back under the car.
>
>
>
>
>
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RE: [mk2-16v] Rust Resistance on Restored Fasteners and Metal? (Main Fuel Pump Assembly)

2016-02-29 Thread Larry Velez 
Thanks for the tips Jack.   I was thinking of using Por15 on the bracket (Por15 
seems to have a lot of fans) but I will also look at Rustoleum Hammered.

Iā€™ll check my local True Value for their fastener selection. These guys 
also seem to have retail stores but I have never been to one:  
https://www.fastenal.com/

Iā€™ll see what I can find there,  and if not Iā€™ll use Hollandā€™s trick to paint 
the tops of the fasteners and coat the threads with LocTite Blue.

Thanks,

-Larry

From: mk2-16v@googlegroups.com [mailto:mk2-16v@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Jack Simon
Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 12:12 PM
To: mk2-16v@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [mk2-16v] Rust Resistance on Restored Fasteners and Metal? (Main 
Fuel Pump Assembly)

WD40 evaporates quickly but for temporary protection it would suit although I'd 
use P'Blaster as it leaves a film that does not go away and actually 
lubricates.  That's why it does such a nice job in protecting electrical 
connections.

Rustoleum Hammered would be my choice for the final paint, especially since you 
already have it primered.  That stuff is a take-off of an old British product 
called Hammerite that was sold here in the U.S. until VOC regulations got it 
banned.  It is, however, back and Sherwin-Williams stores now carry it.

As far as replacement hardware goes, I've always used new Stainless nuts, 
bolts, washers, etc. along with LocTite Blue (Medium strength) so that 
disassembling them at some point in the future will be relatively easy.  Using 
LocTite RED usually requires a blowtorch and an Act of God to get them 
loosened!!  Most local hardware stores that carry Hillman or Midwest Fasteners 
products should be a good source.  After I retired I spent 10 years working for 
a local True Value and their selection was all Midwest Fasteners and rarely was 
I forced to go elsewhere.  Their "Nuts & Bolts" area consisted of two 40 foot 
aisles lined on both sides with everything imaginable.

Good luck...Jack

On 29 Feb 2016, at 11:25, Larry Velez wrote:


Any tips on how to move forward from this point would be welcome.   I will 
spray the bracket with rustoleum now that it is primered and I sprayed the 
fasteners with WD40 for now, but Iā€™m thinking I need something more permanent 
before it all goes back under the car.


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Re: [mk2-16v] Rust Resistance on Restored Fasteners and Metal? (Main Fuel Pump Assembly)

2016-02-29 Thread Jack Simon 
WD40 evaporates quickly but for temporary protection it would suit although I'd 
use P'Blaster as it leaves a film that does not go away and actually 
lubricates.  That's why it does such a nice job in protecting electrical 
connections.  

Rustoleum Hammered would be my choice for the final paint, especially since you 
already have it primered.  That stuff is a take-off of an old British product 
called Hammerite that was sold here in the U.S. until VOC regulations got it 
banned.  It is, however, back and Sherwin-Williams stores now carry it.  

As far as replacement hardware goes, I've always used new Stainless nuts, 
bolts, washers, etc. along with LocTite Blue (Medium strength) so that 
disassembling them at some point in the future will be relatively easy.  Using 
LocTite RED usually requires a blowtorch and an Act of God to get them 
loosened!!  Most local hardware stores that carry Hillman or Midwest Fasteners 
products should be a good source.  After I retired I spent 10 years working for 
a local True Value and their selection was all Midwest Fasteners and rarely was 
I forced to go elsewhere.  Their "Nuts & Bolts" area consisted of two 40 foot 
aisles lined on both sides with everything imaginable.  

Good luck...Jack

On 29 Feb 2016, at 11:25, Larry Velez wrote:

Any tips on how to move forward from this point would be welcome.   I will 
spray the bracket with rustoleum now that it is primered and I sprayed the 
fasteners with WD40 for now, but Iā€™m thinking I need something more permanent 
before it all goes back under the car.
 

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Re: [mk2-16v] Rust Resistance on Restored Fasteners and Metal? (Main Fuel Pump Assembly)

2016-02-29 Thread Holland Phillips 
Move to California?
No, seriously, I use anti seize on the threaded portion of fasteners that I
don't want to rust, especially if they are likely to need to be removed for
future service reasons. If you're concerned about the heads of the
fasteners rusting, before installation, punch holes in a piece of
cardboard, insert fasteners, and shoot a few coats of a quality epoxy
paint. To improve adhesion, preheat your oven to about 200deg, and bake for
about an hour.

~Holland
On Feb 29, 2016 08:25, "Larry Velez"  wrote:

> So I have been very slowly working on cleaning up a replacement main fuel
> pump that I got from our fellow lister, Chad.  I was able to strip the
> bracket down to pretty much bare metal using many days of apple cider
> vinegar and various wire brushes on my dremel and a new bench polisher I
> purchased.
>
>
>
> Now that I have the fasteners and metal sleeves for the rubber vibration
> dampers pretty much rust free,  any suggestions on how to keep them rust
> free after they are back under the car?   I called a local place about zink
> plating and they said that a small batch like this would be ā€˜uncomfortably
> expensiveā€™.   They suggested to replace all the fasteners with new.  I
> canā€™t get any of this stuff new from anyone so I would have to research the
> sizes/thread/etc to try to match them with new replacements.  I am thinking
> is probably easiest to reuse most of this and just replace all the gaskets
> and washers.
>
>
>
> Any tips on how to move forward from this point would be welcome.   I will
> spray the bracket with rustoleum now that it is primered and I sprayed the
> fasteners with WD40 for now, but Iā€™m thinking I need something more
> permanent before it all goes back under the car.
>
>
>
> (Letā€™s see if all the pictures come through,  I crunched them down to a
> small size)
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> -Larry
>
> 91 GTI 16V
>
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