Re: perl calendar application
On Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 12:28:01PM -0500, Blue Lang wrote: On Sat, 6 Jan 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Eh, I'm prepared to take my lynching, but I'd just like to remind everyone that there's nothing at all wrong with using PHP for things like this. You'll never be a worse person for learning something new, and the overheard required to manage a php+perl enabled apache is only minimally more than managing one or the other. IMHO, it's just lame to rewrite something for which there exists dozens of good apps just because of the language im which it is written. You might as well be arguing about GPL/BSD/Artistic at that point. I'm not lynching... :) just another point of view. There is no problem in having several solutions for the same problem. It's competition and it's good. Sometime e rewrite something I saw in PHP or other language because: 1. although I know php, i'm more fluent and faster in perl; 2. perl is fun, so i'm having fun, when programming perl :) 3. reimplementing something makes you think about the problem, and the solution to the problem. You get to know the problem better. I do use application in php and other languages, but sometimes... :) -- Pedro Melo Cunha - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Novis - Dir. Rede - ISP - Infraes. Portal http://www.novis.pt/ Ed. Atrium Saldanha - Pa. Dq. Saldanha, 1 - 7 / 1050-094 Lisboa tel: +351 21 0104340 - Fax: +351 21 0104301
Re: perl calendar application
On Sat, 6 Jan 2001, Blue Lang [EMAIL PROTECTED] espoused: Eh, I'm prepared to take my lynching, but I'd just like to remind everyone that there's nothing at all wrong with using PHP for things like this. You'll never be a worse person for learning something new, and the overheard required to manage a php+perl enabled apache is only minimally more than managing one or the other. IMHO, it's just lame to rewrite something for which there exists dozens of good apps just because of the language im which it is written. You might as well be arguing about GPL/BSD/Artistic at that point. I'm not going to get sucked into a language advocacy debate. But at least in my case, your comments are quite off base. A) I don't need to learn PHP. I learned PHP four or five years ago. The experience wasn't pleasant. My most recent experience with PHP was to port a PHP3 app from PostgreSQL to MySQL. It was very tedious and still unpleasant. (Yes PHP4 supposed finally has a real database interface like DBI, but most of the apps out there aren't written for PHP4.) B) Simplicity is good. The fewer things running inside my web server to meet my needs the better. This is a security issue as well as an ease of maintenance issue. C) We are organizationally committed to perl. Our employees and contractors are not expected to know PHP and most are quite happy that I don't make them write in PHP. A long term strategy of keeping my programmers (including myself) happy seems like a good thing. D) (And I think this is the most important point of all.) There are good reasons for deciding on a language and sticking with it if your hope is to build something large. (Trying to build a garden with three different climates and have it work as one big garden is a huge challenge and certainly not worth pursuing if you're trying to maximize production.) My hope is to take the calendar portion of things and build upon it. Ultimately I'd like to have something that has the functionality of Outlook plus bugzilla. I've gotten several emails privately with offers of source for various "in progress" projects that people say they're willing to make open source. I will keep the list informed. -- /chris Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to buy Microsoft products.
Re: perl calendar application
On Sun, 7 Jan 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not going to get sucked into a language advocacy debate. But at least in my case, your comments are quite off base. Oh. D) (And I think this is the most important point of all.) There are good reasons for deciding on a language and sticking with it if your hope is to build something large. (Trying to build a garden with three different In that case, have a poke at http://prospector.sourceforge.net/ or http://www.gallanttech.com/resources/documentation/calendar/ Both very cute little mod_perl calendar apps, GPLed and in a mature code state. HTH - -- Blue Lang, Unix Voodoo Priest 202 Ashe Ave, Apt 3, Raleigh, NC. 919 835 1540 "I was born in a city of sharks and sailors!" - June of 44
Re: perl calendar application
build something large. (Trying to build a garden with three different climates and have it work as one big garden is a huge challenge and certainly not worth pursuing if you're trying to maximize production.) I agree with this... however if you have to play in that garden because half of you developers are PHP developers and have are perl developers. then take a look at this module. Apache::ProxyStuff I believe the module was originally written to play will with domonio apps. We used it to have a mason back ended server playing with a php back ended server and then unifying the site. This is really cool when you are "lazy" and you wan to install some app that already written. no more Gosh darn ... that is just what I need guess i will have to port it. Jeff On Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 11:38:24AM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 6 Jan 2001, Blue Lang [EMAIL PROTECTED] espoused: Eh, I'm prepared to take my lynching, but I'd just like to remind everyone that there's nothing at all wrong with using PHP for things like this. You'll never be a worse person for learning something new, and the overheard required to manage a php+perl enabled apache is only minimally more than managing one or the other. IMHO, it's just lame to rewrite something for which there exists dozens of good apps just because of the language im which it is written. You might as well be arguing about GPL/BSD/Artistic at that point. I'm not going to get sucked into a language advocacy debate. But at least in my case, your comments are quite off base. A) I don't need to learn PHP. I learned PHP four or five years ago. The experience wasn't pleasant. My most recent experience with PHP was to port a PHP3 app from PostgreSQL to MySQL. It was very tedious and still unpleasant. (Yes PHP4 supposed finally has a real database interface like DBI, but most of the apps out there aren't written for PHP4.) B) Simplicity is good. The fewer things running inside my web server to meet my needs the better. This is a security issue as well as an ease of maintenance issue. C) We are organizationally committed to perl. Our employees and contractors are not expected to know PHP and most are quite happy that I don't make them write in PHP. A long term strategy of keeping my programmers (including myself) happy seems like a good thing. D) (And I think this is the most important point of all.) There are good reasons for deciding on a language and sticking with it if your hope is to build something large. (Trying to build a garden with three different climates and have it work as one big garden is a huge challenge and certainly not worth pursuing if you're trying to maximize production.) My hope is to take the calendar portion of things and build upon it. Ultimately I'd like to have something that has the functionality of Outlook plus bugzilla. I've gotten several emails privately with offers of source for various "in progress" projects that people say they're willing to make open source. I will keep the list informed. -- /chris Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to buy Microsoft products. Thanks, Jeff --- | "0201: Keyboard Error. Press F1 to continue." | | -- IBM PC-XT Rom, 1982 | --- | Jeff Sheffield | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | AIM=JeffShef| ---
Re: perl calendar application
On Sat, 6 Jan 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 5 Jan 2001, Jim Serio wrote: Why not just write one to suite your needs? If you want one I'd really like to hack on a freeware version, but it'd be nice to start with one that at least had some decent sheduling features so I could use Eh, I'm prepared to take my lynching, but I'd just like to remind everyone that there's nothing at all wrong with using PHP for things like this. You'll never be a worse person for learning something new, and the overheard required to manage a php+perl enabled apache is only minimally more than managing one or the other. IMHO, it's just lame to rewrite something for which there exists dozens of good apps just because of the language im which it is written. You might as well be arguing about GPL/BSD/Artistic at that point. Just my two cents, and all that. -- Blue Lang, Unix Voodoo Priest 202 Ashe Ave, Apt 3, Raleigh, NC. 919 835 1540 "I was born in a city of sharks and sailors!" - June of 44
Re: perl calendar application
Blue Lang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 6 Jan 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 5 Jan 2001, Jim Serio wrote: Why not just write one to suite your needs? If you want one I'd really like to hack on a freeware version, but it'd be nice to start with one that at least had some decent sheduling features so I could use Eh, I'm prepared to take my lynching, but I'd just like to remind everyone that there's nothing at all wrong with using PHP for things like this. You'll never be a worse person for learning something new, and the overheard required to manage a php+perl enabled apache is only minimally more than managing one or the other. IMHO, it's just lame to rewrite something for which there exists dozens of good apps just because of the language im which it is written. You might as well be arguing about GPL/BSD/Artistic at that point. I have to agree. At Texas AM, we just went production with a combination of TWIG (in php), custom php scripts to handle directory service tasks (LDAP), php scripts creating a CGI environment for some Perl scripts (Apache is 32- bit on Irix, oracle is 64-bit...), and a smattering of tcl (mail store management), sh (kerberos), and Perl (PH management) scripts to help out when php couldn't quite do it. My rule of thumb is to use whichever language makes the task easiest. Most languages can work together. +- James Smith - [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.jamesmith.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://sourcegarden.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://cis.tamu.edu/systems/opensystems/ +--
Re: perl calendar application
I'll say just a little now since i'm moving semi slowly on this project. I'm working on writing a suite that at some point will have a calender program in it. The whole thing is perl based and the entire web enterface is going to be done in mod perl. Whole setup will be databased backed and released under the GPL. As for a timeline, I've been working more on the backend then any type of display environment yet. I'm starting to get into the front end now, so by the end of the month, hopefully I will have something that can be shown and that works reasonably well. If you want more information about it, send me an e-mail offlist. As for the statement that its not good to re-write something that exisits many times for another language that works well, Once I have the release, It should make a good deal more sense. Scott On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've looked around the web for perl-based calendar applications for several hours. There are a significant number out there -- I've personally checked out a dozen, but they are generally pretty pathetic. Even most of the ones you can pay for are ugly and have very limited functionality. WebTrend and Calcium are decent, but cost $400 for our situation and any modifications I make would be unsharable. (This presumes that their source code is even legible and in any shape to hack on.) Am I totally missing something? More generally, does anybody have a page of mod_perl business applications? Even more generally, are there any mod_perl applications
perl calendar application
I've looked around the web for perl-based calendar applications for several hours. There are a significant number out there -- I've personally checked out a dozen, but they are generally pretty pathetic. Even most of the ones you can pay for are ugly and have very limited functionality. WebTrend and Calcium are decent, but cost $400 for our situation and any modifications I make would be unsharable. (This presumes that their source code is even legible and in any shape to hack on.) Am I totally missing something? More generally, does anybody have a page of mod_perl business applications? Even more generally, are there any mod_perl applications out there? Neither modperl.org and take23 had much I could find. modperl.org had a page of 'products' that listed some modules, but nothing that I would call an end-user application. I think some of the free web mail programs (?atmail) and forum packages use or can use mod_perl, but how would anybody know that from looking at any of the modperl sites? This is yet another area where the legions of PHP developers are whooping up on us and that's rather depressing. I personally think PHP sucks as a language and I'd rather not have it running on my servers. I certainly don't want to be stuck hacking PHP to add features or fix bugs. But perl folks don't seem to be churning out as many nice SQL-enabled web applications. (And I'd really like to get off Windows for my calendar.) BTW - One notable exception that looks neat that I saw on the mysql mailing list today is maccess: http://www.meopta.com/products/software/maccess/ But it's not aimed at end users. Sigh. -- /chris Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to buy Microsoft products.
