Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
On Sat, 2006-04-01 at 23:44 +0200, Zoltan Varga wrote: Hi, I always tought that shadow copying is only needed on windows. AFAIK, on unix, you can overwrite the assemblies currently loaded by the runtime, but you need to delete the original file beforehand. The unix file system allows processes to read from the files which were deleted after they were opened by the process. thats true when the fd to the assembly is not closed, but I fear Mono is closing the fd during execution. I saw manytimes this strange crashes on file replace during debian package upgrades... -- Regards, Mirco 'meebey' Bauer PGP-Key: http://keyserver.noreply.org/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xEEF946C8 -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.12 GIT d s-:+ a-- C++ UL$ P L++$+++$ E- W+++$ N o? K- w++! O M- V? PS PE+ Y- PGP++ t 5+ X++ R tv+ b+ DI? D+ G++ e h! r-++ y? --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
Hi, We are keeping the assembly file descriptors open. Maybe this is because the debian package updating mechanism is not using the the delete+copy thing for data files ? Zoltan On 4/2/06, Mirco Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 2006-04-01 at 23:44 +0200, Zoltan Varga wrote: Hi, I always tought that shadow copying is only needed on windows. AFAIK, on unix, you can overwrite the assemblies currently loaded by the runtime, but you need to delete the original file beforehand. The unix file system allows processes to read from the files which were deleted after they were opened by the process. thats true when the fd to the assembly is not closed, but I fear Mono is closing the fd during execution. I saw manytimes this strange crashes on file replace during debian package upgrades... -- Regards, Mirco 'meebey' Bauer PGP-Key: http://keyserver.noreply.org/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xEEF946C8 -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.12 GIT d s-:+ a-- C++ UL$ P L++$+++$ E- W+++$ N o? K- w++! O M- V? PS PE+ Y- PGP++ t 5+ X++ R tv+ b+ DI? D+ G++ e h! r-++ y? --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iQEVAwUARC+e8HEn5avu+UbIAQKE5Af9HC4eDlPo+4nmVKeynsdH7VC5S6S4duyE tejfjN1zgmzKTYN0/sVds7KbECVbvZOqJtcKjGDhp5Odxgpo2cDweR931jqxFALI ul6ViPxzox2Ig7D70occj1fHCfN+SbaT1QJEV8bdRFF7UjXU8uZAQo9KbnMMMIoU UXC2IEdAB2yS/bKHox0jt4q2Sdx331dpyo8ikYP/FsI7rHCd1CTb1Fu8webLidG1 Iy+Vncubu94wCTUqBjoBywlajuK98B1V/nkW1X73OvBpckAs36psaGxwOnqukPKs G1e73EbVlhg3PLgoALuzUHTyCaf4c5HssMynMvcDAS2MhZsfJE6+/A== =lv7Z -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
What would you like to see in mono Miguel ? O/H Miguel de Icaza έγραψε: Hey, What would be the top feature you would like to see in Mono? Think of a feature that is not something we are currently working on (we know about those), for example avoid saying: a class-is-missing feature or "IDE" or "the debugger". We know about those. Miguel. ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
Miguel de Icaza wrote: Hey, What would be the top feature you would like to see in Mono? Indigo, Avalon ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
Hi, I always tought that shadow copying is only needed on windows. AFAIK, on unix, you can overwrite the assemblies currently loaded by the runtime, but you need to delete the original file beforehand. The unix file system allows processes to read from the files which were deleted after they were opened by the process. Zoltan On 3/30/06, Gonzalo Paniagua Javier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2006-03-29 at 19:41 -0300, Rafael Teixeira wrote: We need to implement shadow copying to allow for changes on running assemblies (but aside from ASP.NET where it is enabled by default, even on MS' .NET one need to turn it on explicitly for every AppDomain that needs it). That turns on-the-fly updates for plugins, and even whole-apps, a real possibility. I have a prototype of this, but run into some hard to debug problem in the runtime. I'm waiting for some help from the runtime guys to finish the implementation of this feature. -Gonzalo ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
I understand that limitation, but maybe it's possible to enable it runtime then? - Original Message - From: Miguel de Icaza [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Joachim Ante [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Mono Dev mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 8:00 PM Subject: Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono? Hello, What i'd like to see in mono is the ability to start up an application without it needing a .WAPI folder. I understand why mono needs the wapi folder, but i'm sure there are application for which one wouldn't need one at all. Yeah that would really useful. For that, try using MONO_DISABLE_SHM=1 on your environment. Notice that a number of features will not work without Wapi (named thread synchronization primitives). Miguel. ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
Hi, Please-Please file bug reports for the issues that can be considered bugs, like the more robust reporting of the stack traces of all threads with SIGQUIT. issue, which I never heard about before. I can't promise that we will fix all of our bugs in a short time, but I can promise that we can't fix bugs which we don't know anything about :). Zoltan On 3/29/06, Joe Shaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, This stretched out a bit more than I originally intended. :) On Tue, 2006-03-28 at 20:47 -0500, Miguel de Icaza wrote: What would be the top feature you would like to see in Mono? Although not really in Mono itself, one thing I would like to see is better integration with automake. The main Beagle Makefile.am is currently 1181 lines. There is definitely room for us to clean this up substantially a bit on our own, but I've love to see things like compilation handled automatically, installation of .mdb files, maybe even automatic gacutil for assemblies, etc. Beyond that, additional profiling tools would help a lot. Specifically: * A profiler that tracked threads. * A profiler that tracked when files were opened and closed. * A profiler which detected potential deadlocks. I'd recommend really investigating all the profilers and debugging tools available for Java and then work on implementing them in Mono. As I've said to you personally many times before, the biggest difficulty in developing applications in Mono at this point is a lack of high-quality tools. In addition, various bug fixes related to profiling: heap-buddy locks up instantaneously on SMP machines (not sure if Jon ever filed that or had just had discussions about it with Ben and others) and more robust reporting of the stack traces of all threads with SIGQUIT. It might also be helpful if the various profilers could be integrated into MonoDevelop or something to give profiling info while the program is running. This data is most useful when it can be visualized. Coverage tools, both at compile and runtime, integrated into Mono would be handy. I am sure .NET ones exist out there, but they're neither immediately obvious nor immediately useful inside a Unix Mono development environment. And one thing that has always bugged me: my apps all behave strangely and then crash when I recompile underneath a running instance. That's very annoying, and I suspect it's also a problem if you upgrade packages and an app is running as well. Joe ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
Hi, On Fri, 2006-03-31 at 19:19 +0200, Zoltan Varga wrote: Please-Please file bug reports for the issues that can be considered bugs, like the more robust reporting of the stack traces of all threads with SIGQUIT. issue, which I never heard about before. I can't promise that we will fix all of our bugs in a short time, but I can promise that we can't fix bugs which we don't know anything about :). In the original report, you said Its not perfect, but better than nothing. http://bugzilla.ximian.com/show_bug.cgi?id=75145 Which implies to me that it is in some way buggy. :) I thought I recalled seeing a FIXME in there, but upon further investigation I didn't see one. Maybe it's been fixed since then? Regardless, I've been pretty diligent about filing bugs, and you guys have been very good about fixing them, which I appreciate. Sometimes the bugs are harder to quantify than others. Thanks, Joe ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
Hello, What i'd like to see in mono is the ability to start up an application without it needing a .WAPI folder. I understand why mono needs the wapi folder, but i'm sure there are application for which one wouldn't need one at all. Yeah that would really useful. For that, try using MONO_DISABLE_SHM=1 on your environment As far as i can see this environment variable doesn't exist anymore. Is there another way to disable wapi? Joachim Ante ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
A ASP.NET designer/debugger integrated to MonoDevelop In our company we use mono on the ASP.NET server side. But our developper use Visual Studio to develop ASP.NET applications... Ok, it's not impossible to develop ASP.NET apps with monodevelop... but it's very time consuming... My dream is to develop web applications with monodevelop with the same (and better) way than VS... Another question, will it be possible to implement a debugger for ASP.NET ??? (i've tried to debug a xsp ASP.NET application with mdb... it's very very tricky...) Thanks a lot for all this work! Le mardi 28 mars 2006 20:47 -0500, Miguel de Icaza a crit : Hey, What would be the top feature you would like to see in Mono? Think of a feature that is not something we are currently working on (we know about those), for example avoid saying: a class-is-missing feature or IDE or the debugger. We know about those. Miguel. ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___Ce message et les éventuels documents joints peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles.Au cas où il ne vous serait pas destiné, nous vous remercions de bien vouloir le supprimer et en aviser immédiatement l'expéditeur. Toute utilisation de ce message non conforme à sa destination, toute diffusion ou publication, totale ou partielle et quel qu'en soit le moyen est formellement interdite.Les communications sur internet n'étant pas sécurisées, l'intégrité de ce message n'est pas assurée et la société émettrice ne peut être tenue pour responsable de son contenu. ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
This wish list has an OSX bias, being an OSX user :-) GTK# as part of the OSX distribution especially as the native GTK+ port matures. An 'MRE'. a minimal distribution of Mono targeting users, not developers. The idea is that this should be as small as possible, to avoid that fun issue of having a 100k programs with a 30Meg dependency. Get rid of any unnecessary development programs, strip those symbols etc. Oh yes an OSX debugger would be nice too. Dave ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
Daniel Morgan wrote: 1. I would love to see a fully managed CLI runtime. A Cecil-powered interpreter or JIT (via DynamicMethod)? That sounds really fun. -- - Joshua Tauberer http://taubz.for.net Unfortunately, we're having this discussion. It's too bad, because guess who listens to the discussion: the enemy. ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
What i'd like to see in mono is the ability to start up an application without it needing a .WAPI folder. I understand why mono needs the wapi folder, but i'm sure there are application for which one wouldn't need one at all. Yeah that would really useful. Joachim Ante ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
Hello, What i'd like to see in mono is the ability to start up an application without it needing a .WAPI folder. I understand why mono needs the wapi folder, but i'm sure there are application for which one wouldn't need one at all. Yeah that would really useful. For that, try using MONO_DISABLE_SHM=1 on your environment. Notice that a number of features will not work without Wapi (named thread synchronization primitives). Miguel. ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
RE: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
What would be the top feature you would like to see in Mono? A cross-platform GUI that doesn't suck visually. Maybe Windows.Forms will be OK, but Gtk# sucks on Windows - not your fault I guess. wxSharp maybe? And *please* reduce the dependencies. Any make it build out of the box on a raw install of Visual Studio Express. And make Sol10+ a primary platform, SPARC and x64. I know this started from a GNOME on Linux background, but thats still somewhat a minority platform beyond ISPs and compute grids as far as I can tell - at least in banks in the City. I kinow you're working on some of these - but its a matter of focus. James ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
RE: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Mansion Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 11:40 PM To: Miguel de Icaza; mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com Subject: RE: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono? What would be the top feature you would like to see in Mono? A cross-platform GUI that doesn't suck visually. Maybe Windows.Forms will be OK, but Gtk# sucks on Windows - not your fault I guess. wxSharp maybe? And *please* reduce the dependencies. This is definitely a big one. It's funny, because I avoid re-building my mono installation more than 3 times a year - everytime it's a bit of a stressful event!! :-) We have quite a few servers relying on it. Although, James, I've been watching this mono effort for more than two years now, and it's gone a long way. I remember the days you had to install Wine to get some sort of UI forms up and running. Any make it build out of the box on a raw install of Visual Studio Express. And make Sol10+ a primary platform, SPARC and x64. I know this started from a GNOME on Linux background, but thats still somewhat a minority platform beyond ISPs and compute grids as far as I can tell - at least in banks in the City. I kinow you're working on some of these - but its a matter of focus. James ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
Hey, 1) The feature which is surely missing is a Compact Mono - equivalent to Compact .NET - however with significantly reduced footprint. What are you looking in particular for in this case? In general, the problem with the Compact Framework is that it was a subset of the framework picked a priori; Which made sense for a large group of uses, but in the embedded world where every solution is custom tuned it turned out to be problematic. Using a linker or a shaper for the class libraries is in our TODO list, but it would be good to hear what is that you had in mind. 4) Web Services enhancments - it's really very important to get it expanded This is a short-lived API; Am not sure that we, Novell, will ever take on building this piece as part of Mono. This is really something that third parties will have to develop Miguel ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
Hello, I am looking forward to see new GC - I wish I had time to put into Mono, but sadly at the moment I am totally tied up :( What's the status on implementation of new GC - the link said it should be rolled out in Feb-Mar, which is pretty much now? It has been rolling into SVN for the past few weeks, the details are scattered across many different commits and many different areas. But if you are curious, you can read the archives and search for commits from Paolo Molaro. Miguel. ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
Hello, 11. make MonoDevelop compatible with SharpDevelop. Or have project import/export wizards for this. Yes, that would be nice. Long term, I think that completing the work on `xbuild' would allow us to get interoperability across Visual Studio and SharpDevelop. Miguel. ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006, Miguel de Icaza wrote: Hey, What would be the top feature you would like to see in Mono? Think of a feature that is not something we are currently working on (we know about those), for example avoid saying: a class-is-missing feature or IDE or the debugger. We know about those. Miguel. Hi, - Optimizations for embedded use. Currently the Java for ARM I've been using is faster than Mono, especially startup time is very much faster with Java. - Continuations and microthreads. This is actually something that I've been hacking together, and I even managed to get something running. Continuations with native code and microthreads and scheduler with C#. - More support for dynamic languages. Perhaps there's an unsafe way (read: you have to know what you are doing) to unload types. Or perhaps a modified mcs could generate code for dynamic methods. Or something else I haven't thought about =). Of course the latter two mentioned things break CLI-standard compliance... Tomi ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
Hey, What would be the top feature you would like to see in Mono? Think of a feature that is not something we are currently working on (we know about those), for example avoid saying: a class-is-missing feature or IDE or the debugger. We know about those. Miguel. Something similar to WinFS will be really great for Linux : A unique database shared by all application for access data, for example : - music player/organizer like Muine and Banshee will access same music database (same concept for other media like photo with f-spot) - unique adress book and mail repository There's a lot of possibilities : beagle enhancement, easy sharing of data across databases (across computer, across universe) Isn't it exciting ? :) Pascal Fresnay http://monofrance.free.fr ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
Le mardi 28 mars 2006 20:47 -0500, Miguel de Icaza a crit: Hey, What would be the top feature you would like to see in Mono? Think of a feature that is not something we are currently working on (we know about those), for example avoid saying: a class-is-missing feature or IDE or the debugger. We know about those. Miguel. ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list My bug corrected... lol... http://bugzilla.ximian.com/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEWbug_status=ASSIGNEDbug_status=NEEDINFObug_status=REOPENEDemail1=informatique.internet%40fiducial.fremailtype1=exactemailassigned_to1=1emailreporter1=1emailcc1=1email2=emailtype2=substringemailreporter2=1changedin=chfieldfrom=chfieldto=Nowchfieldvalue=short_desc=short_desc_type=substringlong_desc=long_desc_type=substringbug_file_loc=bug_file_loc_type=substringkeywords=keywords_type=anywordsop_sys_details=op_sys_details_type=substringversion_details=version_details_type=substringcmdtype=doitnewqueryname=order=%27Importance%27form_name=query ___Ce message et les éventuels documents joints peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles.Au cas où il ne vous serait pas destiné, nous vous remercions de bien vouloir le supprimer et en aviser immédiatement l'expéditeur. Toute utilisation de ce message non conforme à sa destination, toute diffusion ou publication, totale ou partielle et quel qu'en soit le moyen est formellement interdite.Les communications sur internet n'étant pas sécurisées, l'intégrité de ce message n'est pas assurée et la société émettrice ne peut être tenue pour responsable de son contenu. ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
I'd like to see better memory management for long running applications - particularly in memory fragmentation area that seems to be rather weak in .NET (and any other GC based language?) Don't want to throw stones as its amazing what was achieved in Mono, but IMO, Microsoft's implementation of Garbage Collection is considerably better - not speed wise, but reclaiming memory that is no longer in use. regards, Alex ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
On Wed, 2006-03-29 at 11:33 +0100, Alex Chudnovsky wrote: Don't want to throw stones as its amazing what was achieved in Mono, but IMO, Microsoft's implementation of Garbage Collection is considerably better - not speed wise, but reclaiming memory that is no longer in use. This is because Mono's current GC is the Boehm GC, which is a conservative collector. Here, conservative means non-generational and non-compacting; it's like malloc(3) (pointers are never moved), with all the heap fragmentation problems that incurs. Paolo Molaro is working on a replacement GC, as mentioned here: http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2005/Nov-17.html#gc - Jon ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
On Wed, 2006-03-29 at 13:02 +0300, Tomi Valkeinen wrote: - More support for dynamic languages. Perhaps there's an unsafe way (read: you have to know what you are doing) to unload types. Or perhaps a modified mcs could generate code for dynamic methods. Or something else I haven't thought about =). What do you have in mind, exactly? .NET 2.0 added System.Reflection.Emit.DynamicMethod, largely to target dynamic languages such as IronPython. It provides access to an ILGenerator for a method, and the DynamicMethod + IL + assembly language is garbage collected in the usual fashion (instead of being tied to an Assembly, thus necessitating an AppDomain unload to free the memory). Given IronPython is Microsoft's dynamic-language testbed, and it's running rather nicely under .NET, I'm not sure how much more needs to be added to better support dynamic languages... - Jon ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
Title: Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono? Hi! 1) The feature which is surely missing is a Compact Mono - equivalent to Compact .NET - however with significantly reduced footprint. 2) Needles to say full implementation of UI based on System.Windows.Forms namespace API - I appreciate the effort to get it done but the goal of having it working became a moving target over the time. 3) Equivalent of WPF for future GUI requirements but cross platform - I know Migual blog entries about Avalon but a Gtk sharp as an alternative is really far too short of achieving anything impressive. 4) Web Services enhancments - it's really very important to get it expanded 5) Managed P2P technology support (not for piracy but for distribution of info) - which could easily be based on extended Web Services technology. 6) Automatic updates module - Click Once technology by MS is a flop - easy to create horrible to maintain - I will stay with MS Updater v2.0 for a while - it's feature set and control over update mechanisms is far superior - it woul be great to have a cross platform solution 7) Deployment support - creation of installers for many paltforms (nixes i.e. rpms and Windows msi - WiX could be of help here - I use it now for everyday work) Cheers Jacek ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006, Jonathan Pryor wrote: On Wed, 2006-03-29 at 13:02 +0300, Tomi Valkeinen wrote: - More support for dynamic languages. Perhaps there's an unsafe way (read: you have to know what you are doing) to unload types. Or perhaps a modified mcs could generate code for dynamic methods. Or something else I haven't thought about =). What do you have in mind, exactly? .NET 2.0 added System.Reflection.Emit.DynamicMethod, largely to target dynamic languages such as IronPython. It provides access to an ILGenerator for a method, and the DynamicMethod + IL + assembly language is garbage collected in the usual fashion (instead of being tied to an Assembly, thus necessitating an AppDomain unload to free the memory). Given IronPython is Microsoft's dynamic-language testbed, and it's running rather nicely under .NET, I'm not sure how much more needs to be added to better support dynamic languages... Hi, Yes, DynamicMethod is quite a nice feature, and IronPython is a great tool, I've been using them both. But DynamicMethods have their downside, as they are, in a sense, just plain global static functions. You lose the class structure etc. I imagine that unloading a type is possible, but it's very hard to ensure that no one will use that unloaded type. But if I implement a framework that handles the type loading and unloading, I could live with the fact that if the core framework bugs, the application will crash. I think the IronPython guys have problems because of DynamicMethods. DynamicMethods are very good for helper functions, like complied regexp parser, but using them to implement a full object oriented language is not that simple. Of course DynamicMethods are much better than what we had in .Net 1.1 (ie. nothing =). Also, I don't like python very much, and I'd like the language to be strictly typed. What I would like is a C# with type unloading. Tomi ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006, Dave Cramer wrote: Tomi, You were able to get mono to build on the arm? If so how ? Hi, Yes, Mono runtime compiles fine on ARM when using Scratchbox, and mcs and the classlibs compile fine too if you first build a mono-devkit for Scratchbox. Tomi ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
Jonathan Pryor wrote: On Wed, 2006-03-29 at 11:33 +0100, Alex Chudnovsky wrote: Don't want to throw stones as its amazing what was achieved in Mono, but IMO, Microsoft's implementation of Garbage Collection is considerably better - not speed wise, but reclaiming memory that is no longer in use. This is because Mono's current GC is the Boehm GC, which is a conservative collector. Paolo Molaro is working on a replacement GC, as mentioned here: I am looking forward to see new GC - I wish I had time to put into Mono, but sadly at the moment I am totally tied up :( What's the status on implementation of new GC - the link said it should be rolled out in Feb-Mar, which is pretty much now? The whole issue of memory is not that straightforward as I thought initially - particularly when it comes to fragmentation, I am currently battling with this issue in my main app in .NET - it takes far more time than its supposed to :( Alex ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006, Jonathan Pryor wrote: Given all the interdependencies between JITed code, executing code, and call stacks, unloading types is a difficult proposition, which is probably why an AppDomain unload is the only way to do that under .NET. Yes, that's probably the reason. Still, I believe that types could be unloaded, and everything would work fine if I just wouldn't use those unloaded types afterwards. Sure it's dangerous and unsafe, but it could work if restricted to a small piece of code in the core of the framework you are coding. So what's wrong with AppDomains? If they're too slow, perhaps we should improve cross-AppDomain invocation. If they're buggy, they should be fixed. The speed is the main reason, and I guess memory usage is also an issue. AppDomains work fine for plugin-style cases, where you can group lots of types together, and cross-domain calls are not the majority, but if I would put each and every type in its own AppDomain... You may wonder where I need that kind of functionality, and the case I was thinking about is a MUD (multi user dungeon). BatMUD has currently 20171 loaded programs, ie. types, which can be recompiled on the fly. That's quite a lot of AppDomains. A couple of years ago I made some performance testing with AppDomains on MS's CLR and compared the results to ldmud, which is a MUD driver. I don't have the results here, nor do I exactly remember them, but AppDomains were not ten or hundred times slower, but more like a million times. The .Net version probably was 1.1, and AppDomains have improved since then, but I guess they are still far behind the performance I'm looking for. (yes, yes, I should redo the test =). Tomi ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
What i'd like to see in mono is the ability to start up an application without it needing a .WAPI folder. I understand why mono needs the wapi folder, but i'm sure there are application for which one wouldn't need one at all. - Original Message - From: Miguel de Icaza [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 3:47 AM Subject: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono? Hey, What would be the top feature you would like to see in Mono? Think of a feature that is not something we are currently working on (we know about those), for example avoid saying: a class-is-missing feature or IDE or the debugger. We know about those. Miguel. ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
Here are my ideas I would like to see for Mono, Gtk#, and applications.1. I would love to see afully managed CLI runtime.The fully managed CLI runtime would be written completely inmanaged languages like C#, IL, and Boo. The whole thing does not have to be written in one language. Various pieces could be written in a different languages. However, since the Mono's class libraries are written in C#, it be thepreferred language to use. No C++/CLI can not be used here.We would reuse Mono's class libraries. Corlib would need to be modified.2. cross-platform multimedia. Right now, gstreamer is a good library to use, but I haven't seen any working implementation of it running on Win32. I've seen vs projects for it. I've even seen binaries for it. But, I haven't got them to work. sp; Also, I think the gstreamer bindings are not being maintained. We need the ability to do imaging, audio, video, graphics, etc... with Mono and GTK#.Think Banshee and Diva here.Would the Real stuff (helix) be a good bet to create C# bindings that work on Mono on Linux, Mac OS X, and Win32? Are there any other good audio/video libraries that would be good to use?3. Let's not forget scanning, photos, printing Bindings to SANE, TWAIN... Get GnomePrint to be stable like the GTK version. I hear gtk+ hackers are moving GnomePrint from GNOME to GTK+ and making it cross-platform. This is very good indeed. Get Cairo working on Win32. Think f-spot with steroids.4. See 1. Use this as a basis for creating an WPF/E implementation.5. distributed transactions. System.Transactions?6.Make the Database stuff in Mono more robust.(A) This could include implementing ADO.NET 2.0 features, such as, GetSchema, or enhancing Mono.Data ProviderFactory.(B) Or enhancing Mono.Data.Sql in the MonoQuery add-in to MonoDevelop. This could include migrating data and the definition from one database to another, such as, a table called SOMETHING from MySQL to a PostgreSQL database. Or combing the Mono.Data.ProviderFactory, GetSchema in ADO.NET 2.0, and Mono.Data.Sql into one superb assembly. Allow Mono.Data.Sql to create the data definition language scripts of database objects already in a database.7. provide bindings or easy-to-use hooks into evolution groupware client. especially when it becomes available on win32. Think tinymail.8. a cross-platform installer that works for Win32, Linux, Mac OS X, Solaris, FreeBSD, etc... Think BitRock, NSIS (NullSoft Installer), Inno Setup, etc... NOTE: the resulting installer binary does NOT need to be cross-platform. The installer should be scriptable so it can be automated. When I mean automated, I mean:(A). ability to create the installer binary from a simple make command that runs a script. (B). allow administrators to install it viaa script on a desktop remotely. Allows you to roll-out to many developers or users (C).allowit to be installed on a file server. Most SOFTWARE I use is on a LAN. Having it run from the LAN and having my local settingsstored on my local drive would be great. (D) a script that can be used to create an installer for all platforms. specific things for a speci fic platform can be separated into different platform-specific scripts. You specify a target platform of Win32, and the installer creator will spit out an installer binary for Win32.9. port MonoDevelop to Win3210. port features in SharpDevelop 2.0 to MonoDevelop11. make MonoDevelop compatible with SharpDevelop. Or have project import/export wizards for this.Well, I think i have exhausted my list. I may post more when I can think of more.Miguel said:"What would be the top feature you would like to see in Mono?""Think of a feature that is not something we are currently workingon (we know about those), for example avoid saying: a class-is-missingfeature or "IDE" or "the debugger". We know about those." Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
Jacek Blaszczynski wrote: 3) Equivalent of WPF for future GUI requirements but cross platform - I know Migual blog entries about Avalon but a Gtk sharp as an alternative is really far too short of achieving anything impressive. QT4 bindings to provide an alternative to WinForms and GTK# for x-platform GUI. KDE bindings to allow better integration with 'that other Linux desktop'. ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
Hi, This stretched out a bit more than I originally intended. :) On Tue, 2006-03-28 at 20:47 -0500, Miguel de Icaza wrote: What would be the top feature you would like to see in Mono? Although not really in Mono itself, one thing I would like to see is better integration with automake. The main Beagle Makefile.am is currently 1181 lines. There is definitely room for us to clean this up substantially a bit on our own, but I've love to see things like compilation handled automatically, installation of .mdb files, maybe even automatic gacutil for assemblies, etc. Beyond that, additional profiling tools would help a lot. Specifically: * A profiler that tracked threads. * A profiler that tracked when files were opened and closed. * A profiler which detected potential deadlocks. I'd recommend really investigating all the profilers and debugging tools available for Java and then work on implementing them in Mono. As I've said to you personally many times before, the biggest difficulty in developing applications in Mono at this point is a lack of high-quality tools. In addition, various bug fixes related to profiling: heap-buddy locks up instantaneously on SMP machines (not sure if Jon ever filed that or had just had discussions about it with Ben and others) and more robust reporting of the stack traces of all threads with SIGQUIT. It might also be helpful if the various profilers could be integrated into MonoDevelop or something to give profiling info while the program is running. This data is most useful when it can be visualized. Coverage tools, both at compile and runtime, integrated into Mono would be handy. I am sure .NET ones exist out there, but they're neither immediately obvious nor immediately useful inside a Unix Mono development environment. And one thing that has always bugged me: my apps all behave strangely and then crash when I recompile underneath a running instance. That's very annoying, and I suspect it's also a problem if you upgrade packages and an app is running as well. Joe ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
RE: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
1) -Remote debugger--- Debugging remote mono executables from the IDE. Be it SharpDevelop, MonoDevelop, Eclipse, etc. I hope I didn't miss the functionality if it already exists, please let me know!! Microsoft's solution for debugging a remote program is not the most streamlined process :-) as one would expect. So, there is a good opportunity for the mono team to excel in this domain. Our company sells servers running .NET apps (mostly services so mono is very well suited for that). Debugging over PCAnywhere or VNC is often not an option (needless to add: or excruciatingly painful), and debugging with log files can only go so far. IDE debuggers are so much more efficient in reducing our downtime. So, it would be really nice to be able to JIT an app from another machine, that is on a network far far away. 2) Streamlined installer-- Someone else stressed the mono installer again. I was very impressed last week when I used the new version of the installer. But, the honeymoon was quickly over when I had to compile other things to make the whole system work. The installer should install libgc and all those module when they're not present on the system. It's not enough to say you're missing it, so go get it. The big reason is: most of the linux distros don't have the latest libraries out of the box (ex: slackware) and it ruins the user experience to have to go get them by hand. As long as the installer offers the option to install missing components, we're good to go - you guys have done an excellent job with the installer, there's only a bit more road to cover!! Keep the good effort rolling! 3) fix the mono bootstrap-- My big wish is the day where my mom can use linux without typing a command line. But before that, my next big wish is the day where I can run a mono program from linux OR windows, and if mono is missing from the system, do something else than: sorry, mono's not here. Most users will stop here. The mono bootstrap should go one more mile, and offer to go fetch the installer from the internet. If the user says yes, then go download it with lynx (or IE, or by doing an http download from the bootstrap itself), then after download, prompt for confirmation to run the installer. Then, restart the program. Max -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Miguel de Icaza Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 5:47 PM To: mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com Subject: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono? Hey, What would be the top feature you would like to see in Mono? Think of a feature that is not something we are currently working on (we know about those), for example avoid saying: a class-is-missing feature or IDE or the debugger. We know about those. Miguel. ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
F-spot was a good example to use. I was meaning F-spot plus extra features. For instance, I would like to take an application like F-Spot and modify for my own special needs. Or create an entirely new application. Let's say whenever you talk to a customer on a phone, the audio from that is saved as an audio file stored in the database as a blob. This blob can be found by a customer number and description of the conversation, the file type or mime type, the date the conversation happend. Or it could be videos of a product demonstration that marketing created. Or it could be pictures of a person's car after an accident. Or scanned images of legal documents.There is a project at codeproject.com where someone wrote some C# bindings to TWAIN. They work okay. You need the TWAIN SDK from twain.org for it to work. I was mainly talking about an a bstract API that could wrap SANE, TWAIN, and any imaging or photo, or scanning API available. On Windows, you could use TWAIN, and on Linux youcould use SANE. Basically, an easy-to-use API that an application can use to get these things without worrying too much about the underlying technology like TWAIN. Oh, it has to be cross-platform.I would so much love to have all this ability running on Mono and Gtk# on Windows and Linux, etc...Glad you gave an update about GnomePrint. I did not know it was dead. I have another item now.12. improve gtk# to support cairo and pango better.Especially for Printing. See Larry's reply. Larry Ewing [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 200 6-03-29 at 07:57 -0800, Daniel Morgan wrote: 3. Let's not forget scanning, photos, printing Bindings to SANE, TWAIN... Get GnomePrint to be stable like the GTK version. I hear gtk+ hackers are moving GnomePrint from GNOME to GTK+ and making it cross-platform. This is very good indeed. Get Cairo working on Win32. Think f-spot with steroids. GnomePrint is dead, the Gtk printing api will be cairo based. The monocairo bindings still need some work, and we need to make sure we exposeall the cairo wrapper methods in things like pango. F-Spot has thestart of a sane binding that I did in my spare time. I plan to finishit at some point. TWAIN is unlikely as it can involve direct win32calls.F-Spot needs steroids?--Larry Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
Miguel de Icaza wrote: What would be the top feature you would like to see in Mono? more monkeys please. ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
Larry Ewing wrote: F-Spot has the start of a sane binding that I did in my spare time. I plan to finish it at some point. TWAIN is unlikely as it can involve direct win32 calls. TWAIN's available on Mac OS X, too. With some abstraction it should be reasonably possible to support both Win32 and Mac with a common TWAIN binding; I hacked up Gimp's TWAIN plugin to support the Mac a while back. Wrapping both SANE and TWAIN would take even more abstraction, but ought to be possible. -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
Just one topic commented, that also adds my personal request. On 3/29/06, Joe Shaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, And one thing that has always bugged me: my apps all behave strangely and then crash when I recompile underneath a running instance. That's very annoying, and I suspect it's also a problem if you upgrade packages and an app is running as well. Joe We need to implement shadow copying to allow for changes on running assemblies (but aside from ASP.NET where it is enabled by default, even on MS' .NET one need to turn it on explicitly for every AppDomain that needs it). That turns on-the-fly updates for plugins, and even whole-apps, a real possibility. -- Rafael Monoman Teixeira --- As I'm currently working a lot with Java and even fixing Java VMs (JamVM/Kaffe) and GNU Classpath code, I think I may partly borrow the title (Javaman) from my friend Bruno Souza and become the MonoNJavaMan. Yeah, I may currently be crazier than usual... ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
On Wed, 2006-03-29 at 19:41 -0300, Rafael Teixeira wrote: We need to implement shadow copying to allow for changes on running assemblies (but aside from ASP.NET where it is enabled by default, even on MS' .NET one need to turn it on explicitly for every AppDomain that needs it). That turns on-the-fly updates for plugins, and even whole-apps, a real possibility. I have a prototype of this, but run into some hard to debug problem in the runtime. I'm waiting for some help from the runtime guys to finish the implementation of this feature. -Gonzalo ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
Hi Miguel, What would be the top feature you would like to see in Mono? 1) Explicit (GC_Free style) assembly unloading. 2) Assembly unloading via application domain unload. 3) Full bytecode verification. (But you knew that) ;-) Cheers, Jim/Babbage. ___ Yahoo! Photos NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
Em Ter, 2006-03-28 às 20:47 -0500, Miguel de Icaza escreveu: What would be the top feature you would like to see in Mono? A talking clip for MonoDevelop. Everytime I need something I think oh, the IDE should show a little cute clip with that information for me! Maybe the clip could be used even for the code completion?! . . . Okay, okay... I'll stop trolling :) -- Felipe. ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
RE: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
The option to somehow merge (or at least synchronize) your MS.NET GAC and your mono GAC would be nice. There probably is a very good reason not to do this that I haven't thought of yet though. -Matt McDonald -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Miguel de Icaza Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 6:47 PM To: mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com Subject: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono? Hey, What would be the top feature you would like to see in Mono? Think of a feature that is not something we are currently working on (we know about those), for example avoid saying: a class-is-missing feature or IDE or the debugger. We know about those. Miguel. ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
Tomi, You were able to get mono to build on the arm? If so how ? Very Interested, Dave On 29-Mar-06, at 5:02 AM, Tomi Valkeinen wrote: On Tue, 28 Mar 2006, Miguel de Icaza wrote: Hey, What would be the top feature you would like to see in Mono? Think of a feature that is not something we are currently working on (we know about those), for example avoid saying: a class-is- missing feature or IDE or the debugger. We know about those. Miguel. Hi, - Optimizations for embedded use. Currently the Java for ARM I've been using is faster than Mono, especially startup time is very much faster with Java. - Continuations and microthreads. This is actually something that I've been hacking together, and I even managed to get something running. Continuations with native code and microthreads and scheduler with C#. - More support for dynamic languages. Perhaps there's an unsafe way (read: you have to know what you are doing) to unload types. Or perhaps a modified mcs could generate code for dynamic methods. Or something else I haven't thought about =). Of course the latter two mentioned things break CLI-standard compliance... Tomi ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
--- Miguel de Icaza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, What would be the top feature you would like to see in Mono? Think of a feature that is not something we are currently working on (we know about those), for example avoid saying: a class-is-missing feature or IDE or the debugger. We know about those. Miguel. ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list Continued Success. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
Miguel de Icaza wrote: Hey, What would be the top feature you would like to see in Mono? Think of a feature that is not something we are currently working on (we know about those), for example avoid saying: a class-is-missing feature or IDE or the debugger. We know about those. For those not intimately familiar with what you already know about, a more extensive list of already known areas might be helpful to direct minds to the unknown areas. ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
Re: [Mono-dev] What would you like to see in Mono?
a mono plugin to firefox, and IE, etc, allow you to run your app. in these browsers, in addition to having signed protection. With sandbox type security as a later improvement. I want to be able to program something in mono, and have it run everywhere and use it for most every task ... i.e. 1) scripting in linux/unix 2) server apps 3) gui app. 4) browser plugin we have 1-3, lets get 4! I mean, why do i want to work with Java, or Flash or activeX plugin as my only choice now ? Its logical to assume I should be able to get my mono c# stuff running in a browser. I think this was brought up before, and someone mentioned it would be almost impossible to do the sand box .. well ok , screw the sandbox, the activeX plugin doesn't have that either, just means most public app would need to be signed, for at least some integrity process. -tl On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 20:47:27 -0500 Miguel de Icaza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, What would be the top feature you would like to see in Mono? Think of a feature that is not something we are currently working on (we know about those), for example avoid saying: a class-is-missing feature or IDE or the debugger. We know about those. Miguel. ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list ___ Mono-devel-list mailing list Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
