Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
Debbie, And, whose idea is this learning to teach the right way that these DI scripts spouse? There is no right way to teach. There are philosophies which then guide our teaching practices. The teaching practices in DI programs are clearly scripted so that there is minimal out of the box thinking and everyone is on the same step at the same time (philosophy). There is no regard for different size thinking, rather there is disregard for the messy life of the classroom. Elisa Elisa Waingort Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual Dalhousie Elementary Calgary, Canada The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt within the heart. Helen Keller Visit my blog, A Teacher's Ruminations, and post a message. http://waingortgrade2spanishbilingual.blogspot.com/ Scripts make sure we learn to teach the right way so that we can then incorporate those techniques and make them our own. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
I think what Debbie may be saying is that a script may somehow apprentice a teacher to better practice and techniques. I see some worth in this belief. Getting non-traditionally certified folks started with guided reading, I typically model for one week--sharing very, very detailed lesson plans which could be called scripts, I suppose. Then we write a set of these kinds of plans together--sometimes for a few weeks, amidst much talk of the children, their needs and the educational possibilities for the books in front of us. I do see this as apprenticeship--a means of getting started. The difference is, I go away. Granted I come back from time to time, but my goal is to refine practice rather than to define practice, working within the guidelines established by our district for balanced literacy instruction. The little books we use offer us many possibilities for focus in instruction, according to student need. The same story could be used instructionally to teacher text previewing, fluency, sentence structure and could indicate many possibilities for contextualized word study. Until these scripted programs come with a 'choose your own ending' option, I am just not sure it is fair to say that they will ensure the best literacy education possible for every student. The person most responsible for that has to be the classroom teacher. Lori Jackson - Original message - From: Waingort Jimenez, Elisa elwaingor...@cbe.ab.ca To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group mosaic@literacyworkshop.org Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 6:46 AM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking Debbie, And, whose idea is this learning to teach the right way that these DI scripts spouse? There is no right way to teach. There are philosophies which then guide our teaching practices. The teaching practices in DI programs are clearly scripted so that there is minimal out of the box thinking and everyone is on the same step at the same time (philosophy). There is no regard for different size thinking, rather there is disregard for the messy life of the classroom. Elisa Elisa Waingort Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual Dalhousie Elementary Calgary, Canada The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt within the heart. Helen Keller Visit my blog, A Teacher's Ruminations, and post a message. http://waingortgrade2spanishbilingual.blogspot.com/ Scripts make sure we learn to teach the right way so that we can then incorporate those techniques and make them our own. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
Yes and no, Lori. I can see giving a teacher a loose script to read through when first trying something out. The Investigations math program does something like this and they even have dialogue involving children in the classroom. I've used these supports from time to time. In fact, to prepare for two workshops I recently gave at our local Teacher's Convention, I did just that for myself. It was more a way for me to prepare than something I necessarily stuck to throughout my presentation. The DI programs expect you to follow their scripts as they are written. I also do not equate detailed lesson plans with scripts. Detailed lesson plans guide teachers along, as you say. They help you rehearse for when you need to do a lesson in front of a group of children. They shouldn't dictate everything you do in the classroom. There's a funny thing in all of this, though. Thinking teachers will naturally deviate from the script once they realize that it's not working for all children. This is where the real teaching comes in. Elisa Elisa Waingort Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual Dalhousie Elementary Calgary, Canada The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt within the heart. Helen Keller Visit my blog, A Teacher's Ruminations, and post a message. http://waingortgrade2spanishbilingual.blogspot.com/ I think what Debbie may be saying is that a script may somehow apprentice a teacher to better practice and techniques. I see some worth in this belief. Getting non-traditionally certified folks started with guided reading, I typically model for one week--sharing very, very detailed lesson plans which could be called scripts, I suppose. Then we write a set of these kinds of plans together--sometimes for a few weeks, amidst much talk of the children, their needs and the educational possibilities for the books in front of us. I do see this as apprenticeship--a means of getting started. The difference is, I go away. Granted I come back from time to time, but my goal is to refine practice rather than to define practice, working within the guidelines established by our district for balanced literacy instruction. The little books we use offer us many possibilities for focus in instruction, according to student need. The same story could be used instructionally to teacher text previewing, fluency, sentence structure and could indicate many possibilities for contextualized word study. Until these scripted programs come with a 'choose your own ending' option, I am just not sure it is fair to say that they will ensure the best literacy education possible for every student. The person most responsible for that has to be the classroom teacher. Lori Jackson - Original message - From: Waingort Jimenez, Elisa elwaingor...@cbe.ab.ca To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group mosaic@literacyworkshop.org Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 6:46 AM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking Debbie, And, whose idea is this learning to teach the right way that these DI scripts spouse? There is no right way to teach. There are philosophies which then guide our teaching practices. The teaching practices in DI programs are clearly scripted so that there is minimal out of the box thinking and everyone is on the same step at the same time (philosophy). There is no regard for different size thinking, rather there is disregard for the messy life of the classroom. Elisa Elisa Waingort Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual Dalhousie Elementary Calgary, Canada The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt within the heart. -Helen Keller Visit my blog, A Teacher's Ruminations, and post a message. http://waingortgrade2spanishbilingual.blogspot.com/ Scripts make sure we learn to teach the right way so that we can then incorporate those techniques and make them our own. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
OK, I swore I wasn't going to comment again, but it seems I can't help myself this once more. During this whole discussion of scripted programs, I think we have failed to clarify the differences between scripts and transcripts. And what a difference! One of the best resources I know is Talking Drawing Writing where the authors basically melded (for lack of a better term) many teaching and learning times to document for us the Best Of Lessons, a composite of many wonderful teachers and conversations. Lucy Calkins does that for us in Units of Study, as does Regie Routman in a variety of places. One of the masters is Marilyn Burns, a fantastic resource which Jennifer will meet up with many times during her research into lesson study. Marilyn simply takes her (and her colleagues) most successful lessons on place-value or attributes or whatever and consolidates them into The Lesson Where All's Right with the World. It's a transcript of an ideal lesson. Jennifer has written several examples on this listserv as she co-teaches. Ellin's one of the masters. These transcripts are not, never have been, and never will be scripts! And therein lies the difference. What these examples (Burns, Calkins, Giacobbe) were written for was to show us across time and place what best practice could and should be. They are meant simply to help us see and hear, wherever we are, whenever we read, and whomever we are--- what teaching and learning CAN BE. We, of course, get wonderful examples from Ellin in all her writing, as we do from many of our favorites. They just help us BE THERE, and not be there one day, in one place, with one set of players. They illustrate best practice--the epitome of teaching/learning--the pinnacle of lesson study, if you will. Those transcripts are the ultimate in professional development because we can see and hear what did happen, as well as WHAT THE TEACHER WAS THINKING while it was happening, and the reasoning behind the choices she was making -- and during the best of times. Contrast that, please, with the scripts in direct instruction which are meant to be precisely followed with fidelity. Those scripts are not meant for us to develop ourselves into the consummate professional; they are to tell us what to say and what to do and when to say it. It doesn't matter who we are or where we are or when it is. AND -- It definitely doesn't matter who our students are. They may be second language learners, someone who has taught themselves how to read as a preschooler, the most gifted language user, the struggler, the creative, the diverse. They all get the script. We give it to them. In the same way, at the same time. We are ciphers. And so are our kids! So...when I talk about scripted programs, I'm very clear. I'm the deliverer. Not the teacher. And I hope this is the last I ever write on this off-topic topic Bev, who just can't seem to resist On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 5:43 PM, Waingort Jimenez, Elisa elwaingor...@cbe.ab.ca wrote: Yes and no, Lori. I can see giving a teacher a loose script to read through when first trying something out. The Investigations math program does something like this and they even have dialogue involving children in the classroom. I've used these supports from time to time. In fact, to prepare for two workshops I recently gave at our local Teacher's Convention, I did just that for myself. It was more a way for me to prepare than something I necessarily stuck to throughout my presentation. The DI programs expect you to follow their scripts as they are written. I also do not equate detailed lesson plans with scripts. Detailed lesson plans guide teachers along, as you say. They help you rehearse for when you need to do a lesson in front of a group of children. They shouldn't dictate everything you do in the classroom. There's a funny thing in all of this, though. Thinking teachers will naturally deviate from the script once they realize that it's not working for all children. This is where the real teaching comes in. Elisa Elisa Waingort Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual Dalhousie Elementary Calgary, Canada The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt within the heart. —Helen Keller Visit my blog, A Teacher's Ruminations, and post a message. http://waingortgrade2spanishbilingual.blogspot.com/ I think what Debbie may be saying is that a script may somehow apprentice a teacher to better practice and techniques. I see some worth in this belief. Getting non-traditionally certified folks started with guided reading, I typically model for one week--sharing very, very detailed lesson plans which could be called scripts, I suppose. Then we write a set of these kinds of plans together--sometimes for a few weeks, amidst much talk of the children, their needs and the educational possibilities for the books in front of us. I do see this as apprenticeship--a
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
There is ABSOLUTELY a difference between the script that Lori talks about below and the scripts in DI programs! Lori - you are SO right!! Your example makes me think of a mind script - most, if not all of us, need to see something in action before we can replicate it ourselves. That's what I think Lori is talking about here. That's not a script - that's an example, a model. That's what we are expected to do for our students and that's what we need for ourselves. After this thorough two week long modeling session that Lori does for her teachers they are then able to go off and try it themselves - they follow the model NOT the script - and she comes back to check with them - using the Gradual Release of Responsibility with teachers! They make it their own and because they're not following a script they don't miss what their kids do!!! They are more aware and present in the moment with their students. I love what you've written here and I will keep it in a safe place :-) Carrie -Original Message- From: Ljackson [mailto:ljack...@gwtc.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 7:08 AM To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking I think what Debbie may be saying is that a script may somehow apprentice a teacher to better practice and techniques. I see some worth in this belief. Getting non-traditionally certified folks started with guided reading, I typically model for one week--sharing very, very detailed lesson plans which could be called scripts, I suppose. Then we write a set of these kinds of plans together--sometimes for a few weeks, amidst much talk of the children, their needs and the educational possibilities for the books in front of us. I do see this as apprenticeship--a means of getting started. The difference is, I go away. Granted I come back from time to time, but my goal is to refine practice rather than to define practice, working within the guidelines established by our district for balanced literacy instruction. The little books we use offer us many possibilities for focus in instruction, according to student need. The same story could be used instructionally to teacher text previewing, fluency, sentence structure and could indicate many possibilities for contextualized word study. Until these scripted programs come with a 'choose your own ending' option, I am just not sure it is fair to say that they will ensure the best literacy education possible for every student. The person most responsible for that has to be the classroom teacher. Lori Jackson - Original message - From: Waingort Jimenez, Elisa elwaingor...@cbe.ab.ca To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group mosaic@literacyworkshop.org Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 6:46 AM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking Debbie, And, whose idea is this learning to teach the right way that these DI scripts spouse? There is no right way to teach. There are philosophies which then guide our teaching practices. The teaching practices in DI programs are clearly scripted so that there is minimal out of the box thinking and everyone is on the same step at the same time (philosophy). There is no regard for different size thinking, rather there is disregard for the messy life of the classroom. Elisa Elisa Waingort Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual Dalhousie Elementary Calgary, Canada The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt within the heart. -Helen Keller Visit my blog, A Teacher's Ruminations, and post a message. http://waingortgrade2spanishbilingual.blogspot.com/ Scripts make sure we learn to teach the right way so that we can then incorporate those techniques and make them our own. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
