Re: [MOSAIC] High School request for ideas
Sally, you make some good points! For me, I usually go home and read the whole thing over so it makes sense in MY mind. Jan You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother. -Albert Einstein On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:56 AM, Sally Thomas wrote: > I agree with you Jan. Especially personally. I do think committed adult > learners always want every bit of the information, don't you think?And > I > definitely wouldn't use jig sawing all the time.But I do think it is > useful for helping students who might have a very hard time reading a > larger > volume of text where there isn't really time. (and time is an issue in > every > classroom I know) For example, English language learners have good reason > to read slowly and can't necessarily handle the same volume of reading as > others. And in the case of this request, it was a content area class where > I'm sure teachers are accountable for the content of the curriculum, not > just reading. So class opportunities would help the students model how to > go about accessing content area reading that at times they would need to do > entirely independently. It also would be my job as a teacher to be sure > students had an appropriate "into" the text so that dealing with a middle > section and "beyond" (debriefing and clarifying misinterpretations) were > effective experiences. "Into/thru/beyond" is the "used to be" descriptive > framework for planning reading events during the more constructivist days > of > schooling! I also think there is much value in having students expected to > collaboratively construct meaning and share that construction with others. > Of course it could happen as well with every group reading the same text. > > As a teacher of younger students or adults, I would always have available > of > the whole text for anyone who wanted it!!! > > > On 11/6/10 9:34 AM, "Jan Sanders" wrote: > > > While many people love jigsaw, I personally do not like it -especially > when > > I go to a conference and it is used. Why? You get someone's > interpretation > > of the piece, not necessarily what the author intended, or what you would > > get from it. Also, I hate it if I don't get the first part to read as I > > have trouble entering into something at the middle or end of the piece. > I > > often have to go back and scan what came before so it makes sense in my > > mind. > > I read only at a moderate pace and take time to absorb what is written > > there, and often the time alloted is not sufficient for me. As a coach, > if > > I was going to use an article at a training for the teachers I work with, > I > > would give it to them a few days ahead of time and allow about 15 minutes > > reading time (or longer for longer articles) at the training. The > teachers > > appreciated this as some needed more time to process like me. > > > > I bring this up as there may be students with some of the same feelings. > > Maybe there is a person who needs to start at the beginning for it to > make > > sense, maybe someone's explanation of a section wasn't clear, maybe the > > length of time given to read wasn't long enough... > > Jan > > You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your > > grandmother. > > -Albert Einstein > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 12:42 PM, wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> > >> Hi Sally, > >> I'd love to hear more about how the jig saw method has worked for you. > >> I have done that, and it usually fails for me. Too many students wait > for > >> others to do the work for them. Parents (of the working students) have > >> complained to me about the unfairness. Jan > >> > >> > >> Quoting Sally Thomas : > >> > >>> I think many readers don't develop reading stamina. The effort tires > them > >>> quickly, and it's especially hard when they are not motivated. I would > >>> not > >>> lower the quality of the readings but make them shorter. Pick out key > >>> passages for them to problem solve with as readers and then you fill in > >>> the > >>> gaps with your input. OR jig saw and let students teach each other > their > >>> shorter parts. As an English teacher for example, I would pick 5 or 6 > key > >>> scenes (either because of theme, plot, whatever) and students would > read > >>> those in the original with great care and lots of discussion, often > >>> reading > >>> as readers theater etc. But I would fill in the rest. They did not > have > >>> the stamina to wrestle with the whole play in Elizabethan English. > >>> How wonderful that you are seeing your role in supporting students > reading > >>> in the content areas!!! Takes a village as the saying goes. Thank > you. > >>> Sally > >>> > >>> > >>> On 11/3/10 7:16 PM, "ginger/rob" wrote: > >>> > I received this email and I believe she intended it for the Mosaic > group > >>> so > I am forwarding it on: > ++ > My name is C. Wright. I am trying to incorporate
Re: [MOSAIC] High School request for ideas
I think the jigsaw strategy is especially good in workshops to give participants an overall "taste" of something, AND when they have the whole piece in their hands so that they can go off and read it later. I don't think it's meant to give participants a complete, detailed account. Renee On Nov 7, 2010, at 8:47 AM, Jan Sanders wrote: Sally, you make some good points! For me, I usually go home and read the whole thing over so it makes sense in MY mind. Jan You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother. -Albert Einstein On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 10:56 AM, Sally Thomas wrote: I agree with you Jan. Especially personally. I do think committed adult learners always want every bit of the information, don't you think?And I definitely wouldn't use jig sawing all the time.But I do think it is useful for helping students who might have a very hard time reading a larger volume of text where there isn't really time. (and time is an issue in every classroom I know) For example, English language learners have good reason to read slowly and can't necessarily handle the same volume of reading as others. And in the case of this request, it was a content area class where I'm sure teachers are accountable for the content of the curriculum, not just reading. So class opportunities would help the students model how to go about accessing content area reading that at times they would need to do entirely independently. It also would be my job as a teacher to be sure students had an appropriate "into" the text so that dealing with a middle section and "beyond" (debriefing and clarifying misinterpretations) were effective experiences. "Into/thru/beyond" is the "used to be" descriptive framework for planning reading events during the more constructivist days of schooling! I also think there is much value in having students expected to collaboratively construct meaning and share that construction with others. Of course it could happen as well with every group reading the same text. As a teacher of younger students or adults, I would always have available of the whole text for anyone who wanted it!!! On 11/6/10 9:34 AM, "Jan Sanders" wrote: While many people love jigsaw, I personally do not like it - especially when I go to a conference and it is used. Why? You get someone's interpretation of the piece, not necessarily what the author intended, or what you would get from it. Also, I hate it if I don't get the first part to read as I have trouble entering into something at the middle or end of the piece. I often have to go back and scan what came before so it makes sense in my mind. I read only at a moderate pace and take time to absorb what is written there, and often the time alloted is not sufficient for me. As a coach, if I was going to use an article at a training for the teachers I work with, I would give it to them a few days ahead of time and allow about 15 minutes reading time (or longer for longer articles) at the training. The teachers appreciated this as some needed more time to process like me. I bring this up as there may be students with some of the same feelings. Maybe there is a person who needs to start at the beginning for it to make sense, maybe someone's explanation of a section wasn't clear, maybe the length of time given to read wasn't long enough... Jan You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother. -Albert Einstein On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 12:42 PM, wrote: Hi Sally, I'd love to hear more about how the jig saw method has worked for you. I have done that, and it usually fails for me. Too many students wait for others to do the work for them. Parents (of the working students) have complained to me about the unfairness. Jan Quoting Sally Thomas : I think many readers don't develop reading stamina. The effort tires them quickly, and it's especially hard when they are not motivated. I would not lower the quality of the readings but make them shorter. Pick out key passages for them to problem solve with as readers and then you fill in the gaps with your input. OR jig saw and let students teach each other their shorter parts. As an English teacher for example, I would pick 5 or 6 key scenes (either because of theme, plot, whatever) and students would read those in the original with great care and lots of discussion, often reading as readers theater etc. But I would fill in the rest. They did not have the stamina to wrestle with the whole play in Elizabethan English. How wonderful that you are seeing your role in supporting students reading in the content areas!!! Takes a village as the saying goes. Thank you. Sally On 11/3/10 7:16 PM, "ginger/rob" wrote: I received this email and I believe she intended it for the Mosaic group so I am forwardi
Re: [MOSAIC] High School request for ideas
While many people love jigsaw, I personally do not like it -especially when I go to a conference and it is used. Why? You get someone's interpretation of the piece, not necessarily what the author intended, or what you would get from it. Also, I hate it if I don't get the first part to read as I have trouble entering into something at the middle or end of the piece. I often have to go back and scan what came before so it makes sense in my mind. I read only at a moderate pace and take time to absorb what is written there, and often the time alloted is not sufficient for me. As a coach, if I was going to use an article at a training for the teachers I work with, I would give it to them a few days ahead of time and allow about 15 minutes reading time (or longer for longer articles) at the training. The teachers appreciated this as some needed more time to process like me. I bring this up as there may be students with some of the same feelings. Maybe there is a person who needs to start at the beginning for it to make sense, maybe someone's explanation of a section wasn't clear, maybe the length of time given to read wasn't long enough... Jan You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother. -Albert Einstein On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 12:42 PM, wrote: > > > > Hi Sally, > I'd love to hear more about how the jig saw method has worked for you. > I have done that, and it usually fails for me. Too many students wait for > others to do the work for them. Parents (of the working students) have > complained to me about the unfairness. Jan > > > Quoting Sally Thomas : > >> I think many readers don't develop reading stamina. The effort tires them >> quickly, and it's especially hard when they are not motivated. I would >> not >> lower the quality of the readings but make them shorter. Pick out key >> passages for them to problem solve with as readers and then you fill in >> the >> gaps with your input. OR jig saw and let students teach each other their >> shorter parts. As an English teacher for example, I would pick 5 or 6 key >> scenes (either because of theme, plot, whatever) and students would read >> those in the original with great care and lots of discussion, often >> reading >> as readers theater etc. But I would fill in the rest. They did not have >> the stamina to wrestle with the whole play in Elizabethan English. >> How wonderful that you are seeing your role in supporting students reading >> in the content areas!!! Takes a village as the saying goes. Thank you. >> Sally >> >> >> On 11/3/10 7:16 PM, "ginger/rob" wrote: >> >> > I received this email and I believe she intended it for the Mosaic group >> so >> > I am forwarding it on: >> > ++ >> > My name is C. Wright. I am trying to incorporate reading into my 11th >> grade >> > content area because our students score low on the reading and social >> > studies part of the exam. I know part of the problem is that may >> students >> > do not know how to read. Some do not comprehend. So I am trying to >> teach >> > students how to be successful readers on the test as well as acquire a >> life >> > skill. I noticed that if the passages are long many students do not any >> > attempt to read. My greatest problem is trying to find strategies that >> work >> > during a reading assignment. The before and after is okay, but during >> the >> > reading my strategies fade. > Carolyn Wright >> > wchwri...@wilcox.k12.al.us >> > >> > > > ___ > Mosaic mailing list > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > > ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] High School request for ideas
I agree with you Jan. Especially personally. I do think committed adult learners always want every bit of the information, don't you think?And I definitely wouldn't use jig sawing all the time.But I do think it is useful for helping students who might have a very hard time reading a larger volume of text where there isn't really time. (and time is an issue in every classroom I know) For example, English language learners have good reason to read slowly and can't necessarily handle the same volume of reading as others. And in the case of this request, it was a content area class where I'm sure teachers are accountable for the content of the curriculum, not just reading. So class opportunities would help the students model how to go about accessing content area reading that at times they would need to do entirely independently. It also would be my job as a teacher to be sure students had an appropriate "into" the text so that dealing with a middle section and "beyond" (debriefing and clarifying misinterpretations) were effective experiences. "Into/thru/beyond" is the "used to be" descriptive framework for planning reading events during the more constructivist days of schooling! I also think there is much value in having students expected to collaboratively construct meaning and share that construction with others. Of course it could happen as well with every group reading the same text. As a teacher of younger students or adults, I would always have available of the whole text for anyone who wanted it!!! On 11/6/10 9:34 AM, "Jan Sanders" wrote: > While many people love jigsaw, I personally do not like it -especially when > I go to a conference and it is used. Why? You get someone's interpretation > of the piece, not necessarily what the author intended, or what you would > get from it. Also, I hate it if I don't get the first part to read as I > have trouble entering into something at the middle or end of the piece. I > often have to go back and scan what came before so it makes sense in my > mind. > I read only at a moderate pace and take time to absorb what is written > there, and often the time alloted is not sufficient for me. As a coach, if > I was going to use an article at a training for the teachers I work with, I > would give it to them a few days ahead of time and allow about 15 minutes > reading time (or longer for longer articles) at the training. The teachers > appreciated this as some needed more time to process like me. > > I bring this up as there may be students with some of the same feelings. > Maybe there is a person who needs to start at the beginning for it to make > sense, maybe someone's explanation of a section wasn't clear, maybe the > length of time given to read wasn't long enough... > Jan > You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your > grandmother. > -Albert Einstein > > > > On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 12:42 PM, wrote: > >> >> >> >> Hi Sally, >> I'd love to hear more about how the jig saw method has worked for you. >> I have done that, and it usually fails for me. Too many students wait for >> others to do the work for them. Parents (of the working students) have >> complained to me about the unfairness. Jan >> >> >> Quoting Sally Thomas : >> >>> I think many readers don't develop reading stamina. The effort tires them >>> quickly, and it's especially hard when they are not motivated. I would >>> not >>> lower the quality of the readings but make them shorter. Pick out key >>> passages for them to problem solve with as readers and then you fill in >>> the >>> gaps with your input. OR jig saw and let students teach each other their >>> shorter parts. As an English teacher for example, I would pick 5 or 6 key >>> scenes (either because of theme, plot, whatever) and students would read >>> those in the original with great care and lots of discussion, often >>> reading >>> as readers theater etc. But I would fill in the rest. They did not have >>> the stamina to wrestle with the whole play in Elizabethan English. >>> How wonderful that you are seeing your role in supporting students reading >>> in the content areas!!! Takes a village as the saying goes. Thank you. >>> Sally >>> >>> >>> On 11/3/10 7:16 PM, "ginger/rob" wrote: >>> I received this email and I believe she intended it for the Mosaic group >>> so I am forwarding it on: ++ My name is C. Wright. I am trying to incorporate reading into my 11th >>> grade content area because our students score low on the reading and social studies part of the exam. I know part of the problem is that may >>> students do not know how to read. Some do not comprehend. So I am trying to >>> teach students how to be successful readers on the test as well as acquire a >>> life skill. I noticed that if the passages are long many students do not any attempt to read. My greatest problem is tryi
Re: [MOSAIC] High School request for ideas
HI Jan, I cannot say it always worked perfectly. (And for myself doing it in grown up teacher groups I personally cannot stand not reading every word - smile!) But it did work for my classes usually. I tailored the tasks each group would do to the type of knowledge or info they needed to extract from the jig sawed parts: main idea, details, points to compare, feelings etc. So the group might need to create a "Quaker reading" (or found poem type deal) with each person contributing their most important (or most vivid or) detail and returning to read it as a poem. Or the group might need to create a visual "map" or poster of the section and so on. I ALWAYS circulated and they knew I did with my clipboard noticing the types of work their group was doing. And they usually self evaluated. And we often debriefed talking about how the groups went that day. Without that kind of oversight - which I sometimes skimped on due to time (again smile) - group work was not as effective. It takes time and as a teacher I have to believe it's worth it!!! Another thing I did, more typically academic, but sometimes giving open note tests covering everything that was presented so they really needed to pay attention. They could take notes and I DID TOO and they could see me doing it so that I would be sure to "test" only what had actually been presented. That upped the seriousness of the group presentations! I am thinking that one reason group work is sometimes a problem is that it is not interpreted as serious. What do you think? A final story. As a teacher educator I was observing in one of my intern teacher's classroom. They were reading the Iliad. I sat with one group. The students had been assigned different jobs. One person was reading aloud, Another had underlined (I forget for what), one had made a character chart, and one student was sitting there just listening. I asked them about what they were doing and they explained. I asked the student doing "nothing" what she was doing. And she explained to me very seriously that this was really hard reading and she was listening. I asked her if it helped. And she said "OH yes!" again very seriously. That incident has stayed in my head for years. We do not always know what is being learned for sure and especially not without asking non judgmentally or observing very carefully. On 11/4/10 12:42 PM, "Jan" wrote: > > > > Hi Sally, > I'd love to hear more about how the jig saw method has worked for you. > > I have done that, and it usually fails for me. Too many students wait > for others to do the work for them. Parents (of the working students) > have complained to me about the unfairness. > Jan > > ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] High School request for ideas
Hi Sally, I'd love to hear more about how the jig saw method has worked for you. I have done that, and it usually fails for me. Too many students wait for others to do the work for them. Parents (of the working students) have complained to me about the unfairness. Jan Quoting Sally Thomas : I think many readers don't develop reading stamina. The effort tires them quickly, and it's especially hard when they are not motivated. I would not lower the quality of the readings but make them shorter. Pick out key passages for them to problem solve with as readers and then you fill in the gaps with your input. OR jig saw and let students teach each other their shorter parts. As an English teacher for example, I would pick 5 or 6 key scenes (either because of theme, plot, whatever) and students would read those in the original with great care and lots of discussion, often reading as readers theater etc. But I would fill in the rest. They did not have the stamina to wrestle with the whole play in Elizabethan English. How wonderful that you are seeing your role in supporting students reading in the content areas!!! Takes a village as the saying goes. Thank you. Sally On 11/3/10 7:16 PM, "ginger/rob" wrote: > I received this email and I believe she intended it for the Mosaic group so > I am forwarding it on: > ++ > My name is C. Wright. I am trying to incorporate reading into my 11th grade > content area because our students score low on the reading and social > studies part of the exam. I know part of the problem is that may students > do not know how to read. Some do not comprehend. So I am trying to teach > students how to be successful readers on the test as well as acquire a life > skill. I noticed that if the passages are long many students do not any > attempt to read. My greatest problem is trying to find strategies that work > during a reading assignment. The before and after is okay, but during the > reading my strategies fade. > Carolyn Wright > wchwri...@wilcox.k12.al.us > ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] High School request for ideas
On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 21:16:00 -0500 "ginger/rob" wrote: I received this email and I believe she intended it for the Mosaic group so I am forwarding it on: ++ My name is C. Wright. I am trying to incorporate reading into my 11th grade content area because our students score low on the reading and social studies part of the exam. I know part of the problem is that may students do not know how to read. Some do not comprehend. So I am trying to teach students how to be successful readers on the test as well as acquire a life skill. I noticed that if the passages are long many students do not any attempt to read. My greatest problem is trying to find strategies that work during a reading assignment. The before and after is okay, but during the reading my strategies fade. Carolyn Wright wchwri...@wilcox.k12.al.us ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. A resource you might want to purchase is a book called,"Taking the Test"..Authored by Connrad, Allen, Zimmer...they are Colorado teachers, staff developers with PEBC...it highlights teh CSAP state test but migh offer valuable strategies. DB ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] High School request for ideas
I think many readers don't develop reading stamina. The effort tires them quickly, and it's especially hard when they are not motivated. I would not lower the quality of the readings but make them shorter. Pick out key passages for them to problem solve with as readers and then you fill in the gaps with your input. OR jig saw and let students teach each other their shorter parts. As an English teacher for example, I would pick 5 or 6 key scenes (either because of theme, plot, whatever) and students would read those in the original with great care and lots of discussion, often reading as readers theater etc. But I would fill in the rest. They did not have the stamina to wrestle with the whole play in Elizabethan English. How wonderful that you are seeing your role in supporting students reading in the content areas!!! Takes a village as the saying goes. Thank you. Sally On 11/3/10 7:16 PM, "ginger/rob" wrote: > I received this email and I believe she intended it for the Mosaic group so > I am forwarding it on: > ++ > My name is C. Wright. I am trying to incorporate reading into my 11th grade > content area because our students score low on the reading and social > studies part of the exam. I know part of the problem is that may students > do not know how to read. Some do not comprehend. So I am trying to teach > students how to be successful readers on the test as well as acquire a life > skill. I noticed that if the passages are long many students do not any > attempt to read. My greatest problem is trying to find strategies that work > during a reading assignment. The before and after is okay, but during the > reading my strategies fade. > Carolyn Wright > wchwri...@wilcox.k12.al.us > > > ___ > Mosaic mailing list > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
[MOSAIC] High School request for ideas
I received this email and I believe she intended it for the Mosaic group so I am forwarding it on: ++ My name is C. Wright. I am trying to incorporate reading into my 11th grade content area because our students score low on the reading and social studies part of the exam. I know part of the problem is that may students do not know how to read. Some do not comprehend. So I am trying to teach students how to be successful readers on the test as well as acquire a life skill. I noticed that if the passages are long many students do not any attempt to read. My greatest problem is trying to find strategies that work during a reading assignment. The before and after is okay, but during the reading my strategies fade. Carolyn Wright wchwri...@wilcox.k12.al.us ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
