Re: [mou-net] Northern Raven/Number Winter Robins
Circling back to the original message, has the raven been spotted today? I'm planning to venture to the area tomorrow morning. Erica Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device Original message From: JULIAN SELLERS Date: 12/7/18 9:23 AM (GMT-06:00) To: MOU-NET@LISTS.UMN.EDU Subject: Re: [mou-net] Northern Raven/Number Winter Robins There could well be multiple factors. I will just add that the "distinct inflection point around 1996" noted by Val Landwehr happened at about the time that large numbers of hackberry trees, planted after the demise of the elms, reached maturity. Julian From: Minnesota Birds on behalf of Steve Weston Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2018 11:58 PM To: MOU-NET@LISTS.UMN.EDU Subject: Re: [mou-net] Northern Raven/Number Winter Robins While the availability of fruit is important, a more limiting factor in numbers of robins in winter is the availability of liquid water. I believe that in recent years the warmer winters have resulted in more availability of liquid water, which should have increased the area where robins can thrive in winter. Steve Weston On Quigley Lake in Eagan, MN swest...@comcast.net On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 4:32 PM Val Landwehr < 012f44857088-dmarc-requ...@lists.umn.edu> wrote: > I was intrigued by the discussion of whether in recent years > more robins are being seen during winter in the Twin Cities(Charles Neil, > Mary White and J. Baumann). I think that I > have seen more robins, particularly in large flocks, in > recent years. To put this hypothesis to the test I looked at the > results from four Christmas Bird Counts over the years that are > online at the Minnesota Ornithologists' Union website. The > Christmas Bird Counts I checked were Bloomington CBC, St. Paul > (North) CBC, Excelsior CBC and the Minneapolis (North) CBC. > I found a distinct trend of more robins being counted during > the counts since the winter of 1996 than were in prior years. > The numbers vary widely each year, but there is a distinct > inflection point around 1996 for a larger number of robinssince that date > than prior to it. Since 1996, the number ofrobins counted varies greatly > from year to year, but I don't > see any clear evidence that the numbers are continuing to > increase. > Average number of robins counted at Twin Cities CBCs: > Bloomington St. Paul (North) Minneapolis (North) Excelsior > Pre 21.2 17.1 2.5 > 5.3 > 1996 > 1996- 367.4 420.5 114.6 > 181.2 > 2017 > > Median number of robins counted at Twin Cities CBCs: > Bloomington St. Paul (North) Minneapolis (North) Excelsior > Pre 5 6 0 > 1 > 1996 > 1996- 278 255 26 > 132 > 2017 > I considered that the increased number of robins might reflect > more birders participating in these Christmas counts as well > as an increase in birding skills. If there are more skillful > birders involved in these counts I would expect a similar > increase in the counts of other species. So I looked at the > counts reported by the Bloomington CBC for the black-capped > chickadee, blue jay and dark-eyed junco. I didn't find any > trends or long term changes in the number of these species. > Therefore, I'm convinced that the increased number of winter > robins is real. > I didn't attempt to see if there is a link between the increasein the > number of robins counted and weather/climate. > That leaves a question in my mind. Are the larger counts just > a reflection that the Twin Cities population of robins has > increased but the same proportion of that population is > overwintering as in the past or have the overwintering habits > of the robins changed? > The CBC data speaks only to the presence of robins in December. > Maybe the only change is when the robins migrate to warmer > regions. Maybe if we had many years of counts for January and > early February we would find that the number of robins in > those months hasn't changed much over the years. As Manley > Olson pointed out, once the robins exhaust the availability of > crab apples, perhaps they head south and are now just as > uncommon in January and February as they were back in the > 1950s through 1980s. > Val Landwehr > Minneapolis > > > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net > Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html
Re: [mou-net] Northern Raven/Number Winter Robins
There could well be multiple factors. I will just add that the "distinct inflection point around 1996" noted by Val Landwehr happened at about the time that large numbers of hackberry trees, planted after the demise of the elms, reached maturity. Julian From: Minnesota Birds on behalf of Steve Weston Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2018 11:58 PM To: MOU-NET@LISTS.UMN.EDU Subject: Re: [mou-net] Northern Raven/Number Winter Robins While the availability of fruit is important, a more limiting factor in numbers of robins in winter is the availability of liquid water. I believe that in recent years the warmer winters have resulted in more availability of liquid water, which should have increased the area where robins can thrive in winter. Steve Weston On Quigley Lake in Eagan, MN swest...@comcast.net On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 4:32 PM Val Landwehr < 012f44857088-dmarc-requ...@lists.umn.edu> wrote: > I was intrigued by the discussion of whether in recent years > more robins are being seen during winter in the Twin Cities(Charles Neil, > Mary White and J. Baumann). I think that I > have seen more robins, particularly in large flocks, in > recent years. To put this hypothesis to the test I looked at the > results from four Christmas Bird Counts over the years that are > online at the Minnesota Ornithologists' Union website. The > Christmas Bird Counts I checked were Bloomington CBC, St. Paul > (North) CBC, Excelsior CBC and the Minneapolis (North) CBC. > I found a distinct trend of more robins being counted during > the counts since the winter of 1996 than were in prior years. > The numbers vary widely each year, but there is a distinct > inflection point around 1996 for a larger number of robinssince that date > than prior to it. Since 1996, the number ofrobins counted varies greatly > from year to year, but I don't > see any clear evidence that the numbers are continuing to > increase. > Average number of robins counted at Twin Cities CBCs: >Bloomington St. Paul (North) Minneapolis (North) Excelsior > Pre 21.2 17.1 2.5 > 5.3 > 1996 > 1996-367.4420.5 114.6 > 181.2 > 2017 > > Median number of robins counted at Twin Cities CBCs: >Bloomington St. Paul (North) Minneapolis (North) Excelsior > Pre 5 6 0 > 1 > 1996 > 1996- 27825526 > 132 > 2017 > I considered that the increased number of robins might reflect > more birders participating in these Christmas counts as well > as an increase in birding skills. If there are more skillful > birders involved in these counts I would expect a similar > increase in the counts of other species. So I looked at the > counts reported by the Bloomington CBC for the black-capped > chickadee, blue jay and dark-eyed junco. I didn't find any > trends or long term changes in the number of these species. > Therefore, I'm convinced that the increased number of winter > robins is real. > I didn't attempt to see if there is a link between the increasein the > number of robins counted and weather/climate. > That leaves a question in my mind. Are the larger counts just > a reflection that the Twin Cities population of robins has > increased but the same proportion of that population is > overwintering as in the past or have the overwintering habits > of the robins changed? > The CBC data speaks only to the presence of robins in December. > Maybe the only change is when the robins migrate to warmer > regions. Maybe if we had many years of counts for January and > early February we would find that the number of robins in > those months hasn't changed much over the years. As Manley > Olson pointed out, once the robins exhaust the availability of > crab apples, perhaps they head south and are now just as > uncommon in January and February as they were back in the > 1950s through 1980s. > Val Landwehr > Minneapolis > > > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net > Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html
Re: [mou-net] Northern Raven/Number Winter Robins
While the availability of fruit is important, a more limiting factor in numbers of robins in winter is the availability of liquid water. I believe that in recent years the warmer winters have resulted in more availability of liquid water, which should have increased the area where robins can thrive in winter. Steve Weston On Quigley Lake in Eagan, MN swest...@comcast.net On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 4:32 PM Val Landwehr < 012f44857088-dmarc-requ...@lists.umn.edu> wrote: > I was intrigued by the discussion of whether in recent years > more robins are being seen during winter in the Twin Cities(Charles Neil, > Mary White and J. Baumann). I think that I > have seen more robins, particularly in large flocks, in > recent years. To put this hypothesis to the test I looked at the > results from four Christmas Bird Counts over the years that are > online at the Minnesota Ornithologists' Union website. The > Christmas Bird Counts I checked were Bloomington CBC, St. Paul > (North) CBC, Excelsior CBC and the Minneapolis (North) CBC. > I found a distinct trend of more robins being counted during > the counts since the winter of 1996 than were in prior years. > The numbers vary widely each year, but there is a distinct > inflection point around 1996 for a larger number of robinssince that date > than prior to it. Since 1996, the number ofrobins counted varies greatly > from year to year, but I don't > see any clear evidence that the numbers are continuing to > increase. > Average number of robins counted at Twin Cities CBCs: >Bloomington St. Paul (North) Minneapolis (North) Excelsior > Pre 21.2 17.1 2.5 > 5.3 > 1996 > 1996-367.4420.5 114.6 > 181.2 > 2017 > > Median number of robins counted at Twin Cities CBCs: >Bloomington St. Paul (North) Minneapolis (North) Excelsior > Pre 5 6 0 > 1 > 1996 > 1996- 27825526 > 132 > 2017 > I considered that the increased number of robins might reflect > more birders participating in these Christmas counts as well > as an increase in birding skills. If there are more skillful > birders involved in these counts I would expect a similar > increase in the counts of other species. So I looked at the > counts reported by the Bloomington CBC for the black-capped > chickadee, blue jay and dark-eyed junco. I didn't find any > trends or long term changes in the number of these species. > Therefore, I'm convinced that the increased number of winter > robins is real. > I didn't attempt to see if there is a link between the increasein the > number of robins counted and weather/climate. > That leaves a question in my mind. Are the larger counts just > a reflection that the Twin Cities population of robins has > increased but the same proportion of that population is > overwintering as in the past or have the overwintering habits > of the robins changed? > The CBC data speaks only to the presence of robins in December. > Maybe the only change is when the robins migrate to warmer > regions. Maybe if we had many years of counts for January and > early February we would find that the number of robins in > those months hasn't changed much over the years. As Manley > Olson pointed out, once the robins exhaust the availability of > crab apples, perhaps they head south and are now just as > uncommon in January and February as they were back in the > 1950s through 1980s. > Val Landwehr > Minneapolis > > > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net > Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html
Re: [mou-net] Northern Raven/Number Winter Robins
I just heard this evening that Robins eat Buckthorn berries. Of course, we are trying to eradicate that invasive. I hope that isn’t causing less food for the robins. Becky Field Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 6, 2018, at 5:36 PM, Jason Frank wrote: > > It would be interesting to compare the data of outstate CBCs as well. > I haven't lived in Minneapolis during winter since 1997, and it seemed > noteworthy to me to see large numbers of robins in the winter. A few > years ago I visited Minnehaha Falls around Christmas and couldn't > believe how many there were, though I just figured they were local > birds who stayed for the open water along the creek and had reliable > food sources nearby. Those numbers from Val show a pretty stark > increase, which to my eyes fits the trend of climate change. > > But... having lived in the Lac qui Parle area since 09, I can't say > I've seen many impressive winter flocks except during the mildest > winters of the last decade, and those birds were usually seen in town > or at parks, and not out in the countryside for the most part. > > Since the Twin Cities urban heat island effect means the temperature > averages there would be trending warmer than elsewhere in the state, I > wonder if outstate robins have gotten into the habit of migrating into > cities and towns, rather than further south? Collating banding data > with rural CBCs might shed some more light on the case. > >> On 12/6/18, GREG ELIZABETH CLOSMORE wrote: >> Buckthorn! >> >>> On Dec 6, 2018, at 4:32 PM, Val Landwehr >>> <012f44857088-dmarc-requ...@lists.umn.edu> wrote: >>> >>> I was intrigued by the discussion of whether in recent years >>> more robins are being seen during winter in the Twin Cities(Charles Neil, >>> Mary White and J. Baumann). I think that I >>> have seen more robins, particularly in large flocks, in >>> recent years. To put this hypothesis to the test I looked at the >>> results from four Christmas Bird Counts over the years that are >>> online at the Minnesota Ornithologists' Union website. The >>> Christmas Bird Counts I checked were Bloomington CBC, St. Paul >>> (North) CBC, Excelsior CBC and the Minneapolis (North) CBC. >>> I found a distinct trend of more robins being counted during >>> the counts since the winter of 1996 than were in prior years. >>> The numbers vary widely each year, but there is a distinct >>> inflection point around 1996 for a larger number of robinssince that date >>> than prior to it. Since 1996, the number ofrobins counted varies greatly >>> from year to year, but I don't >>> see any clear evidence that the numbers are continuing to >>> increase. >>> Average number of robins counted at Twin Cities CBCs: >>> Bloomington St. Paul (North) Minneapolis (North) Excelsior >>> Pre 21.2 17.1 2.5 >>> 5.3 >>> 1996 >>> 1996-367.4420.5 114.6 >>> 181.2 >>> 2017 >>> >>> Median number of robins counted at Twin Cities CBCs: >>> Bloomington St. Paul (North) Minneapolis (North) Excelsior >>> Pre 5 6 0 >>>1 >>> 1996 >>> 1996- 27825526 >>> 132 >>> 2017 >>> I considered that the increased number of robins might reflect >>> more birders participating in these Christmas counts as well >>> as an increase in birding skills. If there are more skillful >>> birders involved in these counts I would expect a similar >>> increase in the counts of other species. So I looked at the >>> counts reported by the Bloomington CBC for the black-capped >>> chickadee, blue jay and dark-eyed junco. I didn't find any >>> trends or long term changes in the number of these species. >>> Therefore, I'm convinced that the increased number of winter >>> robins is real. >>> I didn't attempt to see if there is a link between the increasein the >>> number of robins counted and weather/climate. >>> That leaves a question in my mind. Are the larger counts just >>> a reflection that the Twin Cities population of robins has >>> increased but the same proportion of that population is >>> overwintering as in the past or have the overwintering habits >>> of the robins changed? >>> The CBC data speaks only to the presence of robins in December. >>> Maybe the only change is when the robins migrate to warmer >>> regions. Maybe if we had many years of counts for January and >>> early February we would find that the number of robins in >>> those months hasn't changed much over the years. As Manley >>> Olson pointed out, once the robins exhaust the availability of >>> crab apples, perhaps they head south and are now just as >>> uncommon in January and February as they were back in the >>> 1950s through 1980s. >>> Val Landwehr >>> Minneapolis >>> >>> >>> Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net >>> Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html >> >> >> Join or
Re: [mou-net] Northern Raven/Number Winter Robins
It would be interesting to compare the data of outstate CBCs as well. I haven't lived in Minneapolis during winter since 1997, and it seemed noteworthy to me to see large numbers of robins in the winter. A few years ago I visited Minnehaha Falls around Christmas and couldn't believe how many there were, though I just figured they were local birds who stayed for the open water along the creek and had reliable food sources nearby. Those numbers from Val show a pretty stark increase, which to my eyes fits the trend of climate change. But... having lived in the Lac qui Parle area since 09, I can't say I've seen many impressive winter flocks except during the mildest winters of the last decade, and those birds were usually seen in town or at parks, and not out in the countryside for the most part. Since the Twin Cities urban heat island effect means the temperature averages there would be trending warmer than elsewhere in the state, I wonder if outstate robins have gotten into the habit of migrating into cities and towns, rather than further south? Collating banding data with rural CBCs might shed some more light on the case. On 12/6/18, GREG ELIZABETH CLOSMORE wrote: > Buckthorn! > >> On Dec 6, 2018, at 4:32 PM, Val Landwehr >> <012f44857088-dmarc-requ...@lists.umn.edu> wrote: >> >> I was intrigued by the discussion of whether in recent years >> more robins are being seen during winter in the Twin Cities(Charles Neil, >> Mary White and J. Baumann). I think that I >> have seen more robins, particularly in large flocks, in >> recent years. To put this hypothesis to the test I looked at the >> results from four Christmas Bird Counts over the years that are >> online at the Minnesota Ornithologists' Union website. The >> Christmas Bird Counts I checked were Bloomington CBC, St. Paul >> (North) CBC, Excelsior CBC and the Minneapolis (North) CBC. >> I found a distinct trend of more robins being counted during >> the counts since the winter of 1996 than were in prior years. >> The numbers vary widely each year, but there is a distinct >> inflection point around 1996 for a larger number of robinssince that date >> than prior to it. Since 1996, the number ofrobins counted varies greatly >> from year to year, but I don't >> see any clear evidence that the numbers are continuing to >> increase. >> Average number of robins counted at Twin Cities CBCs: >>Bloomington St. Paul (North) Minneapolis (North) Excelsior >> Pre 21.2 17.1 2.5 >> 5.3 >> 1996 >> 1996-367.4420.5 114.6 >> 181.2 >> 2017 >> >> Median number of robins counted at Twin Cities CBCs: >>Bloomington St. Paul (North) Minneapolis (North) Excelsior >> Pre 5 6 0 >> 1 >> 1996 >> 1996- 27825526 >> 132 >> 2017 >> I considered that the increased number of robins might reflect >> more birders participating in these Christmas counts as well >> as an increase in birding skills. If there are more skillful >> birders involved in these counts I would expect a similar >> increase in the counts of other species. So I looked at the >> counts reported by the Bloomington CBC for the black-capped >> chickadee, blue jay and dark-eyed junco. I didn't find any >> trends or long term changes in the number of these species. >> Therefore, I'm convinced that the increased number of winter >> robins is real. >> I didn't attempt to see if there is a link between the increasein the >> number of robins counted and weather/climate. >> That leaves a question in my mind. Are the larger counts just >> a reflection that the Twin Cities population of robins has >> increased but the same proportion of that population is >> overwintering as in the past or have the overwintering habits >> of the robins changed? >> The CBC data speaks only to the presence of robins in December. >> Maybe the only change is when the robins migrate to warmer >> regions. Maybe if we had many years of counts for January and >> early February we would find that the number of robins in >> those months hasn't changed much over the years. As Manley >> Olson pointed out, once the robins exhaust the availability of >> crab apples, perhaps they head south and are now just as >> uncommon in January and February as they were back in the >> 1950s through 1980s. >> Val Landwehr >> Minneapolis >> >> >> Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net >> Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html > > > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net > Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html > -- Jason M. Frank Ortonville Public Library Founder & Vice President Luddite Ornithologists League (LOL) Big Stone County, Minnesota Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives:
Re: [mou-net] Northern Raven/Number Winter Robins
Buckthorn! > On Dec 6, 2018, at 4:32 PM, Val Landwehr > <012f44857088-dmarc-requ...@lists.umn.edu> wrote: > > I was intrigued by the discussion of whether in recent years > more robins are being seen during winter in the Twin Cities(Charles Neil, > Mary White and J. Baumann). I think that I > have seen more robins, particularly in large flocks, in > recent years. To put this hypothesis to the test I looked at the > results from four Christmas Bird Counts over the years that are > online at the Minnesota Ornithologists' Union website. The > Christmas Bird Counts I checked were Bloomington CBC, St. Paul > (North) CBC, Excelsior CBC and the Minneapolis (North) CBC. > I found a distinct trend of more robins being counted during > the counts since the winter of 1996 than were in prior years. > The numbers vary widely each year, but there is a distinct > inflection point around 1996 for a larger number of robinssince that date > than prior to it. Since 1996, the number ofrobins counted varies greatly from > year to year, but I don't > see any clear evidence that the numbers are continuing to > increase. > Average number of robins counted at Twin Cities CBCs: >Bloomington St. Paul (North) Minneapolis (North) Excelsior > Pre 21.2 17.1 2.5 >5.3 > 1996 > 1996-367.4420.5 114.6181.2 > 2017 > > Median number of robins counted at Twin Cities CBCs: >Bloomington St. Paul (North) Minneapolis (North) Excelsior > Pre 5 6 0 > 1 > 1996 > 1996- 27825526 > 132 > 2017 > I considered that the increased number of robins might reflect > more birders participating in these Christmas counts as well > as an increase in birding skills. If there are more skillful > birders involved in these counts I would expect a similar > increase in the counts of other species. So I looked at the > counts reported by the Bloomington CBC for the black-capped > chickadee, blue jay and dark-eyed junco. I didn't find any > trends or long term changes in the number of these species. > Therefore, I'm convinced that the increased number of winter > robins is real. > I didn't attempt to see if there is a link between the increasein the number > of robins counted and weather/climate. > That leaves a question in my mind. Are the larger counts just > a reflection that the Twin Cities population of robins has > increased but the same proportion of that population is > overwintering as in the past or have the overwintering habits > of the robins changed? > The CBC data speaks only to the presence of robins in December. > Maybe the only change is when the robins migrate to warmer > regions. Maybe if we had many years of counts for January and > early February we would find that the number of robins in > those months hasn't changed much over the years. As Manley > Olson pointed out, once the robins exhaust the availability of > crab apples, perhaps they head south and are now just as > uncommon in January and February as they were back in the > 1950s through 1980s. > Val Landwehr > Minneapolis > > > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net > Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html
Re: [mou-net] Northern Raven/Number Winter Robins
I was intrigued by the discussion of whether in recent years more robins are being seen during winter in the Twin Cities(Charles Neil, Mary White and J. Baumann). I think that I have seen more robins, particularly in large flocks, in recent years. To put this hypothesis to the test I looked at the results from four Christmas Bird Counts over the years that are online at the Minnesota Ornithologists' Union website. The Christmas Bird Counts I checked were Bloomington CBC, St. Paul (North) CBC, Excelsior CBC and the Minneapolis (North) CBC. I found a distinct trend of more robins being counted during the counts since the winter of 1996 than were in prior years. The numbers vary widely each year, but there is a distinct inflection point around 1996 for a larger number of robinssince that date than prior to it. Since 1996, the number ofrobins counted varies greatly from year to year, but I don't see any clear evidence that the numbers are continuing to increase. Average number of robins counted at Twin Cities CBCs: Bloomington St. Paul (North) Minneapolis (North) Excelsior Pre 21.2 17.1 2.5 5.3 1996 1996- 367.4 420.5 114.6 181.2 2017 Median number of robins counted at Twin Cities CBCs: Bloomington St. Paul (North) Minneapolis (North) Excelsior Pre 5 6 0 1 1996 1996- 278 255 26 132 2017 I considered that the increased number of robins might reflect more birders participating in these Christmas counts as well as an increase in birding skills. If there are more skillful birders involved in these counts I would expect a similar increase in the counts of other species. So I looked at the counts reported by the Bloomington CBC for the black-capped chickadee, blue jay and dark-eyed junco. I didn't find any trends or long term changes in the number of these species. Therefore, I'm convinced that the increased number of winter robins is real. I didn't attempt to see if there is a link between the increasein the number of robins counted and weather/climate. That leaves a question in my mind. Are the larger counts just a reflection that the Twin Cities population of robins has increased but the same proportion of that population is overwintering as in the past or have the overwintering habits of the robins changed? The CBC data speaks only to the presence of robins in December. Maybe the only change is when the robins migrate to warmer regions. Maybe if we had many years of counts for January and early February we would find that the number of robins in those months hasn't changed much over the years. As Manley Olson pointed out, once the robins exhaust the availability of crab apples, perhaps they head south and are now just as uncommon in January and February as they were back in the 1950s through 1980s. Val Landwehr Minneapolis Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html
Re: [mou-net] Northern Raven
Thanks so much for the responses everyone! Sharon Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 5, 2018, at 2:58 PM, JANET JOHNSON wrote: > > No, it wouldn't verify the environment is warming. The last 2 years have > actually been cooler. > >> On December 5, 2018 at 2:31 PM jbaum...@usfamily.net wrote: >> >> >> Which would verify the science that the environment is warming . . . . which >> allows birds such as robins to overwinter here now. It hasn't been uncommon >> for 5-8 years in the Cities. >> >> Quoting Mary M White / Charles R Neil : >> >>> But isn't it true that large numbers of over-wintering robins in the Twin >>> Cities is a relatively new phenomenon? I am now 67 and grew-up in St. Paul, >>> and it seems to me that very few robins overwintered when I was a boy. >>> There were likely many fewer Twin Cities Christmas counts in the 1950s and >>> 60s, but my guess is that a review of those counts would show that >>> over-wintering robins were rare at that time. >>> Chuck Neil, Embarrass >>> On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 12:15 PM Manley Olson wrote: Robins regularly overwinter, sometimes in large numbers. Counts in the hundreds have been recorded on area Christmas counts. As long as the crab apples hold out you will see them in your yard. I have seen a few this past week. Manley Olson Minneapolis > On 12/5/2018 11:53 AM, Sharon Fischtrom wrote: > I?m curious - I have a flock of robins hanging out in my crab apple tree - shouldn?t they get the heck out of here? Like last month? > > Sharon Fischtrom > St. Paul Highland Park > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 5, 2018, at 11:27 AM, Bruce Baer wrote: >> >> The Northern Raven was seen at the Bass Ponds at 9:30 this morning sitting in the trees along Long Meadow Lake. Then flying across to the north side. A look at the bird feeders at the refuge HQ might find it. Still large numbers of Hooded Mergansers present with Lesser Scaup, Ring-neck Duck, two swans, a hybrid Mallard, kingfisher. >> >> Bruce Baer >> >> Bloomington >> >> >> Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net >> Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html > > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net > Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html >>> >>> >>> Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net >>> Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html >>> >> >> >> Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net >> Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html > > > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net > Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html
Re: [mou-net] Northern Raven
No, it wouldn't verify the environment is warming. The last 2 years have actually been cooler. > On December 5, 2018 at 2:31 PM jbaum...@usfamily.net wrote: > > > Which would verify the science that the environment is warming . . . . which > allows birds such as robins to overwinter here now. It hasn't been uncommon > for 5-8 years in the Cities. > > Quoting Mary M White / Charles R Neil : > > > But isn't it true that large numbers of over-wintering robins in the Twin > > Cities is a relatively new phenomenon? I am now 67 and grew-up in St. Paul, > > and it seems to me that very few robins overwintered when I was a boy. > > There were likely many fewer Twin Cities Christmas counts in the 1950s and > > 60s, but my guess is that a review of those counts would show that > > over-wintering robins were rare at that time. > > Chuck Neil, Embarrass > > > > On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 12:15 PM Manley Olson wrote: > > > >> Robins regularly overwinter, sometimes in large numbers. Counts in the > >> hundreds have been recorded on area Christmas counts. As long as the > >> crab apples hold out you will see them in your yard. I have seen a few > >> this past week. > >> Manley Olson Minneapolis > >> > >> On 12/5/2018 11:53 AM, Sharon Fischtrom wrote: > >> > I?m curious - I have a flock of robins hanging out in my crab apple tree > >> - shouldn?t they get the heck out of here? Like last month? > >> > > >> > Sharon Fischtrom > >> > St. Paul Highland Park > >> > > >> > Sent from my iPhone > >> > > >> >> On Dec 5, 2018, at 11:27 AM, Bruce Baer wrote: > >> >> > >> >> The Northern Raven was seen at the Bass Ponds at 9:30 this morning > >> sitting in the trees along Long Meadow Lake. Then flying across to the > >> north side. A look at the bird feeders at the refuge HQ might find it. > >> Still large numbers of Hooded Mergansers present with Lesser Scaup, > >> Ring-neck Duck, two swans, a hybrid Mallard, kingfisher. > >> >> > >> >> Bruce Baer > >> >> > >> >> Bloomington > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net > >> >> Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html > >> > > >> > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net > >> > Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html > >> > > >> > >> > >> Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net > >> Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html > >> > > > > > > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net > > Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html > > > > > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net > Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html
Re: [mou-net] Northern Raven
Which would verify the science that the environment is warming . . . . which allows birds such as robins to overwinter here now. It hasn't been uncommon for 5-8 years in the Cities. Quoting Mary M White / Charles R Neil : But isn't it true that large numbers of over-wintering robins in the Twin Cities is a relatively new phenomenon? I am now 67 and grew-up in St. Paul, and it seems to me that very few robins overwintered when I was a boy. There were likely many fewer Twin Cities Christmas counts in the 1950s and 60s, but my guess is that a review of those counts would show that over-wintering robins were rare at that time. Chuck Neil, Embarrass On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 12:15 PM Manley Olson wrote: Robins regularly overwinter, sometimes in large numbers. Counts in the hundreds have been recorded on area Christmas counts. As long as the crab apples hold out you will see them in your yard. I have seen a few this past week. Manley Olson Minneapolis On 12/5/2018 11:53 AM, Sharon Fischtrom wrote: > I?m curious - I have a flock of robins hanging out in my crab apple tree - shouldn?t they get the heck out of here? Like last month? > > Sharon Fischtrom > St. Paul Highland Park > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Dec 5, 2018, at 11:27 AM, Bruce Baer wrote: >> >> The Northern Raven was seen at the Bass Ponds at 9:30 this morning sitting in the trees along Long Meadow Lake. Then flying across to the north side. A look at the bird feeders at the refuge HQ might find it. Still large numbers of Hooded Mergansers present with Lesser Scaup, Ring-neck Duck, two swans, a hybrid Mallard, kingfisher. >> >> Bruce Baer >> >> Bloomington >> >> >> Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net >> Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html > > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net > Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html
Re: [mou-net] Northern Raven
Robins have been found on CBCs for a long time, including the first year in 1905. https://moumn.org/CBC/birds.php?bid=65130 If you look at the graph over time, there is a general trend towards a higher counts for the robin, both in terms of the number of counts reporting robins and the number of robins reported per participant, but there is a fair bit of variation. https://moumn.org/CBC/birds_graph.php?bid=65130 Gregg Severson Minneapolis On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 12:45 PM Mary M White / Charles R Neil < saarir...@gmail.com> wrote: > But isn't it true that large numbers of over-wintering robins in the Twin > Cities is a relatively new phenomenon? I am now 67 and grew-up in St. Paul, > and it seems to me that very few robins overwintered when I was a boy. > There were likely many fewer Twin Cities Christmas counts in the 1950s and > 60s, but my guess is that a review of those counts would show that > over-wintering robins were rare at that time. > Chuck Neil, Embarrass > > On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 12:15 PM Manley Olson > wrote: > > > Robins regularly overwinter, sometimes in large numbers. Counts in the > > hundreds have been recorded on area Christmas counts. As long as the > > crab apples hold out you will see them in your yard. I have seen a few > > this past week. > > Manley Olson Minneapolis > > > > On 12/5/2018 11:53 AM, Sharon Fischtrom wrote: > > > I’m curious - I have a flock of robins hanging out in my crab apple > tree > > - shouldn’t they get the heck out of here? Like last month? > > > > > > Sharon Fischtrom > > > St. Paul Highland Park > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > >> On Dec 5, 2018, at 11:27 AM, Bruce Baer > wrote: > > >> > > >> The Northern Raven was seen at the Bass Ponds at 9:30 this morning > > sitting in the trees along Long Meadow Lake. Then flying across to the > > north side. A look at the bird feeders at the refuge HQ might find it. > > Still large numbers of Hooded Mergansers present with Lesser Scaup, > > Ring-neck Duck, two swans, a hybrid Mallard, kingfisher. > > >> > > >> Bruce Baer > > >> > > >> Bloomington > > >> > > >> > > >> Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net > > >> Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html > > > > > > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net > > > Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html > > > > > > > > > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net > > Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html > > > > > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net > Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html
Re: [mou-net] Northern Raven
But isn't it true that large numbers of over-wintering robins in the Twin Cities is a relatively new phenomenon? I am now 67 and grew-up in St. Paul, and it seems to me that very few robins overwintered when I was a boy. There were likely many fewer Twin Cities Christmas counts in the 1950s and 60s, but my guess is that a review of those counts would show that over-wintering robins were rare at that time. Chuck Neil, Embarrass On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 12:15 PM Manley Olson wrote: > Robins regularly overwinter, sometimes in large numbers. Counts in the > hundreds have been recorded on area Christmas counts. As long as the > crab apples hold out you will see them in your yard. I have seen a few > this past week. > Manley Olson Minneapolis > > On 12/5/2018 11:53 AM, Sharon Fischtrom wrote: > > I’m curious - I have a flock of robins hanging out in my crab apple tree > - shouldn’t they get the heck out of here? Like last month? > > > > Sharon Fischtrom > > St. Paul Highland Park > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On Dec 5, 2018, at 11:27 AM, Bruce Baer wrote: > >> > >> The Northern Raven was seen at the Bass Ponds at 9:30 this morning > sitting in the trees along Long Meadow Lake. Then flying across to the > north side. A look at the bird feeders at the refuge HQ might find it. > Still large numbers of Hooded Mergansers present with Lesser Scaup, > Ring-neck Duck, two swans, a hybrid Mallard, kingfisher. > >> > >> Bruce Baer > >> > >> Bloomington > >> > >> > >> Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net > >> Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html > > > > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net > > Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html > > > > > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net > Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html
Re: [mou-net] Northern Raven
Robins regularly overwinter, sometimes in large numbers. Counts in the hundreds have been recorded on area Christmas counts. As long as the crab apples hold out you will see them in your yard. I have seen a few this past week. Manley Olson Minneapolis On 12/5/2018 11:53 AM, Sharon Fischtrom wrote: I’m curious - I have a flock of robins hanging out in my crab apple tree - shouldn’t they get the heck out of here? Like last month? Sharon Fischtrom St. Paul Highland Park Sent from my iPhone On Dec 5, 2018, at 11:27 AM, Bruce Baer wrote: The Northern Raven was seen at the Bass Ponds at 9:30 this morning sitting in the trees along Long Meadow Lake. Then flying across to the north side. A look at the bird feeders at the refuge HQ might find it. Still large numbers of Hooded Mergansers present with Lesser Scaup, Ring-neck Duck, two swans, a hybrid Mallard, kingfisher. Bruce Baer Bloomington Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html
Re: [mou-net] Northern Raven
I’m curious - I have a flock of robins hanging out in my crab apple tree - shouldn’t they get the heck out of here? Like last month? Sharon Fischtrom St. Paul Highland Park Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 5, 2018, at 11:27 AM, Bruce Baer wrote: > > The Northern Raven was seen at the Bass Ponds at 9:30 this morning sitting in > the trees along Long Meadow Lake. Then flying across to the north side. A > look at the bird feeders at the refuge HQ might find it. Still large numbers > of Hooded Mergansers present with Lesser Scaup, Ring-neck Duck, two swans, a > hybrid Mallard, kingfisher. > > Bruce Baer > > Bloomington > > > Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net > Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html
[mou-net] Northern Raven
The Northern Raven was seen at the Bass Ponds at 9:30 this morning sitting in the trees along Long Meadow Lake. Then flying across to the north side. A look at the bird feeders at the refuge HQ might find it. Still large numbers of Hooded Mergansers present with Lesser Scaup, Ring-neck Duck, two swans, a hybrid Mallard, kingfisher. Bruce Baer Bloomington Join or Leave mou-net: http://lists.umn.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=mou-net Archives: http://lists.umn.edu/archives/mou-net.html
