[Mpls] 6th PARK DISTRICT ELECTION -- Get over it!
I recently was quite taken aback by Kurt Waltenbaugh's personal and slanderous attack on Bob Fine's character and record as a park commissioner. This was all done in his attempt to slam Marie Hauser for supporting Bob as President of the Board. Of course, if he had at least identified himself as living in the same house as Tracy Nordstrom (the loser in last fall's election) one might better understand his anger and bitterness. I've always understood the forum to be a place to share and learn from one another's opinions, so I would hope outright lies about another person would not be tolerated. Let me point out three unrefuteable examples of Waltenbaugh's false statements regarding Bob. First, he stated that Bob had said he would honor the (DFL) endorsement and not run for reelection if he lost. Think about it. Bob had been elected to an at-large seat without endorsement four years ago. He never said he wouldn't run without endorsement and probably never will, even though he's been active in the DFL party most of his adult life. Second, is Waltenbaugh's totally inaccurate portrayal of Bob trying to double the Park Board salaries and when that failed, leading the efforts to approve a 30% increase. Truth-of-the-matter is that Dean Zimmermann, supported by Young, Berry-Graves, and Dziedzic moved to almost double the salaries. To counter this proposal I moved and argued to support a more moderate increase to cover the next four years. This did pass on a 5-4 vote with Bob's support. Otherwise, salaries would have doubled. Thirdly, and probably Waltenbaugh's most absurd remark was that the Sierra Club called Bob their worst enemy on the Park Board. I called the Sierra Club to verify this. They were quite upset that Waltenbaugh had attributed a statement like this to their organization and were going to investigate the matter. Any spokesperson out there from the Sierra Club? It is ridiculous that someone with Bob's record on environmental issues would be presented in that manner. Bob Fine was elected President of the Park Board by a vote of 8-1. Only Vivian Mason, who spent most of the fall campaigning for Nordstrom, voted against him. Marie Hauser was elected (not appointed) Vice-President by an 8-0-1 margin. The only non-vote was by Berry-Graves, who in the past had feigned gender issues in the make-up of the leadership of the Board. It is obvious an overwhelming majority of the Board supports this new leadership team, to imply differently is absurd. The election is over. Bob Fine won a hard fought, well-derved victory. It's time for people who truly care about our park system to put their energy into supporting it. Scott Neiman Former 6th Park District Commissioner Ward 11 ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Alert! The Tax Man is Coming......
Oh oh - it looks like the Governor wants Minneapolis to start paying its own bills. Don't you hate when that happens? Here are the three things that you can do: 1. Get out of Dodge! 2. Go immediately to Court to get your taxable market value reduced to real market values. 3. Bend over and grab your ankles! I'm personally doing all three. Vicky Heller St. Paul (specifically North Oaks) Still a Mpls Taxpayer though ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Alert! The Tax Man is Coming......(Substitution)
Our ListManager correctly pointed out that my attempt at humor (Item #3) went over the line. Please substitute: Hang onto your wallet! Vicky Heller ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Weighing In On Lydia House/God as Non-Profiteer
In a message dated 1/12/02 1:06:31 AM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
In what is sure to gain me very little, if any, friends and probably a few
enemies, I am weighing in on Lydia House with what will probably not be a
very popular opinion on either side.
For the record, I do absolutely think that Stevens Square-Loring Heights,
Whittier, and a number of other neighborhoods do have an overabundance of
supportive housing, and I do think that something needs to be done to stem
the tide of this trend, however, I don't think that Lydia House is the
battle
to make a stand on this with.
When then? do you say, or if we let this go through Listen and I'll
tell you.
(snip-edit delete)
On the opponents side, I get real leery when I hear anyone who is not or has
not been poor, a person of color, or part of a disadvantaged population such
as homeless , etc. start talking about ghettoizing those people or
segregation. It really concerns me when any group starts talking about the
needs of another group without having significant contact with that group.
To me, it's like a group of men talking about what a woman needs, thinks and
feels.
(snip)
{ Keith says; I don't think JP, a stakeholder, should feel leery
when other stakeholders (i.e., homeowners, renters, business people, and
others) try to avoid the ghettoizing of their own neighborhoods. A downward
trend, the funneling of disturbed, dysfunctional and criminal individuals; a
hyper concentration of socially problematic people, into any particular
neighborhood is unjust to all. The parallel hyper concentration of social
service contact points (i.e. plethora of a hot and a cot type services) is
further unfair to all neighborhood stakeholders.}
(snip)
This doesn't mean that none of the people who have responded have no
experience, but when I questioned the people who wrote the report or at
least
the reps that showed up at the meetings, none had experience with the mental
health field, and none were people of color, and none had talked to members
of the population that this program would serve.
For me Lydia House is a separate issue from the 1/4 mile spacing
ordinance
and it's enforcement for a number of reasons, but I think after the initial
problems on both sides listed above, this situation devolved into a tit for
tat fight, and people are using the principle of the 1/4 mile spacing to
justify opposition to Lydia House, and that I don't agree with.
(snip)
{ Keith says; But I am sure neighbors know when the neighborhood is being
buried. Victoria Heller posted it best...'One cookie won't make you fat...' I
think the City and others have made Whittier and Phillips eat way to many
cookies. These areas don't care what flavor the cookie is anymore, or what
our DT and Suburban Madison Avenue/PT Barnums label it. Let do gooders and
non-profiteers show respect for hard fought zoning rules, too.}
(snip)
Why you ask? First, because the facility was already supportive housing for
years, and then has lain dormant until Plymouth purchased it. So to me it
is
not adding another supportive housing unit, but rather revitalizing one.
Second, Plymouth has been a supportive partner of the neighborhoods for many
decades, and I would think if anyone deserved a little leeway and at least a
civil discussion about matters it would be them.
(snip)
{Keith says; It has so-called lain dormant but other social service
transfer points have sprung up in the hood (pardon me for truth) like weeds
and in numbers adverse to all. Also, city zoning rules take hold when a
particular nonconforming use is not upheld or used for years. I own a former
gas station site subjected to that rule. And it is fair. Also, many would
agree, Plymouth's stealth tactics, hostility, threats, and actions quickly
zero out any supposed right to leeway in their neighborhood aggression.}
(snip-edit delete)
Not a very popular opinion, I'm sure, but civil discourse depends on people
being able to sit down and discuss differences with an open mind. I haven't
seen that on either side.
Plymouth should have come and talked and worked with neighborhoods, but it
was not Plymouth who made the first legal actions but some of the neighbors
which was preceeded by their picketing the Church on Sundays and other
actions.
As someone who has tried to be fair, I can understand and appreciate someone
who says they want this facility to be something different because it will
decrease their property values, or because they own a business and this is
supposedly a decrease in customers. I don't agree with these, but can
appreciate them and even
[Mpls] Lydia House Etc.
There is a good book by Ed Goetz from the University of Minnesota called There Goes The Neighborhood? The Impact of Subsidized Multi-Family Housing on Urban Neighborhoods. There are lots of findings in the book that would be worthy of discussion, however one of the most interesting is on page 1 under Executive Summary. It says: We find that proximity to nonprofit-developed subsidized housing actually enhances property values at a rate of $.86 per foot...Crime data on fourteen nonprofit projects show that there were significantly fewer crime calls at these properties after their rehabilitation and conversion to subsidized housing...The tenants of subsidized nonprofit projects are less transient than other renters in the project neighborhoods. As a disclaimer, I served with Ed Goetz on the Central Community Housing Trust for several years. Although I personally believe there may be an imbalance and concentration of subsidized projects in certain areas, I think the reality of this kind of development should be discussed as much as the perception. Residents do have reasons to be concerned and the City must work harder at developing small area plans that communicate intentions clearly to residents. And zoning laws and regulations shouldn't become hit and miss and unreliable for residents because the whim of the council is tied to whatever happens to be the emergent crisis at the time. Russ Peterson St. Michael ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Lydia House Etc./Wealthy demand fair share
In a message dated 1/12/02 12:39:19 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We find that proximity to nonprofit-developed subsidized housing actually enhances property values at a rate of $.86 per foot...Crime data on fourteen nonprofit projects show that there were significantly fewer crime calls at these properties after their rehabilitation and conversion to subsidized housing... Thank you. I can now understand why Kenwood and Linden Hills and the suburbs are clashing over who will be the first to get a subsidized housing project. I revel in my new found clarity. Keith Reitman, Near North ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Lydia House Etc.
Look, I don't know enough about Lydia House to know what needs to happen. All I was saying, is if one would actually take time to read the research, one would find that non profit affordable housing does more for a poverty stricken neighborhood than subsidized private or public housing. This still doesn't negate the concentration of poverty argument or the lack of planning and communication by the city or the tilting of the private business rental market caused by subsidized non profits. These are all serious issues that need attention. As for Kenwood, Linden Hills and the suburbs...Keith might not remember that when I first became a member on this list, I joked about a meeting on affordable housing in Kenwood. It was taken to be offensive and I apologized. However, I have not heard one thing about that meeting since. Nor have I seen any proposals for affordable housing grow out of that project. If the city was really serious about affordable housing, they would consider combing an affordable housing component with every parking ramp they build as much as forcing other people to do so. So the Walker site would be perfect. What a message to send the world. A public venture to help the Walker with parking, combined with affordable housing and one of the most famous art galleries in our country. This is the kind of out of the box thinking that we need implemented in the city. Russ Peterson Saint Michael ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Re: Bill Green
In a message dated 1/7/2002 11:57:01 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Britt Robson replies: The silence of the NAACP, and other people who like to decry the disparity in outcomes between African Americans and Caucasians, probably struck him as ironic, if not hypocritical. If the current NAACP believes the former NAACP leadership was wrong to negotiate for those millions (they haven't said a peep, one way or the other), fine, then let their repudiation stand. I do wonder, however, how much credibility the NAACP will have the next time they sue somebody. Not much. FWIW, I thought the conduct of the plaintiffs at the MPS Board meetings was rude at best. Unfortunately, the settlement seemed to confirm a beleif that "if you annoy them enough, they'll do anything to make you go away". Trainor also states, with respect to Green's comments on the problems of mobility and poor record-keeping, "I guess it never occurred to anyone to actually test these kids and find out what they knew." I guess Green figured that most readers would have sense enough to realize that, whether they are tested or not, valuable learning time is lost and school resources expended trying to determine something that a stable home situation and adequate record-keeping would have already provided. Yes, but given that these studenmts don't have a stable home environment, doesn't it make some sense to try and fix what you can? You have to know where you're coming from before you can get anyplace, and diagnostic testing is one means of finding out where a student is at on the long road of education. Kevin Trainor 6-10, East Phillips Last of the Black Irish Southern Catholic Redneck Jews
[Mpls] Signs of the times/ fans cannot bring signs or banners to Metrodome
I got a free ticket to the last Vikings home game and really do like sports not just for the plot, but all the sub plots and occasional poetic journalism about sports. I am a fan, not an in your face, paint your face fan, but I did dig out my Vikings hat to wear to the game. Which was apparently the same amount of effort that the Vikings put into the game. But that is another story. In arranging our excursion we all reminded each other to remember to wear ear plugs which was great except that we had to shout at the top of our lungs to try to communicate with each other and really couldn't hear each other. The volume of the piped in music was oppressive with the base tones actually pressing on your flesh. Cheering is a big part of the fun of live sports, but the timing and content of the oppressive decibels was totally lame and came from one person trying to dial up the excitement. This in a game where the Vikings looked really, really bad. The interesting sub plot was that this was Chris Carter's last game in Minnesota and the fans really wanted to express their appreciation for the incredible work ethic and all those catches with toes on turf on the last inch of side line. Most, fortunately not all of that, was drowned out by an uninformed sound person. But the most amazing thing to me was that there is now an official policy that fan's sign's and banners are not allowed. The only permitted signs are corporate. I was told that this is Clear Channel management policy and fans with signs -have the signs confiscated and/or are asked to leave. Is this a Clear Channel management decision at the Target Center as well? Home made signs are a real fun part of sports and a part of the culture and history and an opportunity for free and interesting speech. I stopped watching televised Twins baseball when it was impossible to watch a batter without some corporate advertising behind the batter shown in every shot. Sports venues are less interesting when you are told when to cheer and what to say and not permitted to do otherwise. Thanks, Scott Vreeland, Seward ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Re: African American Men in Hennepin County
Just a follow up to my last post about the African American Men Project and its final report, which the Strib reported on earlier. Some important clarifications: The study and report relates to young African American men between the ages of 18 and 30. Not all AA men, as my message may have implied. Also, the Strib rather confusingly reported a statistic about where most young African American men live, stating that they live in one of Minneapolis's poorest and most dangerous neighborhoods. I interpreted that to mean one neighborhood. The actual report clarifies this: about 49 percent of young African American men in Hennepin County live in one of Minneapolis' FIVE (out of 11) poorest and most unsafe communities. The final report is available on the Hennepin County web site (the link is too long to post here) if you search for African American Men Project. Finally, just to be clear, the report has some positive findings, such as the increase since 1990 in the number of young African American men in professional positions and occupations. Overall, there's a lot of data available in the report and it is well worth reading to determine what we all can do. Gregory Luce North Phillips (work) On Fri, 11 January 2002, Gregory Luce wrote: For those of you who missed it, the Star Tribune ran a story today about a fascinating two-year study of trends involving African American men in Hennepin County. While the study obviously focused on the county level, the Strib reported that the study found that 49 percent of African American men live in one Minneapolis neighborhood (unnamed in the Strib story but described by the reporter as one of the poorest and most dangerous neighborhoods in the city). The story is worth discussion and is at: http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/1023667.html Gregory Luce North Phillips (work) North Phillips Press is a publication of Project 504, a housing related neighborhood organization based in the Phillips neighborhood. North Phillips Press is a publication of Project 504, a housing related neighborhood organization based in the Phillips neighborhood. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Re: televised sports advertising
I found it enlightening to see a broadcast about how local advertising is added to what the TV camera sees, so as to get more local revenue. The wonders of electronics. Bruce Gaarder Highland Park Saint Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] 6th PARK DISTRICT ELECTION -- Get over it!
Thank you Scott for your comments. I am the Political Chair for the Sierra Club Twin Cities Group Political Committee. The Sierra Club has never stated Bob Fine as "their worst enemy on the Park Board". We did endorse Tracy Nordstrom over Bob Fine because we believed Tracy demonstrated a greater commitment to the environment. Although, Bob was an incumbent he did not receive the support of either the DFL delegates or the Sierra Club and Tracy Nordstrom came very close to upsetting him because a significant amount of residents had concerns about his leadership. The Sierra Club priorities are preservation, restoration of green space parkland while improving our cities lakes, creeks and river water quality. Bob has not been friendly to environmental concerns while serving on the Park Board and numerous Sierra Club members have expressed concern about his desire to protect the environment. Bob voted to give MNDot over 7 acres of Minnehaha Park land for the rerouting of highway 55. This project destroyed 289 trees of significance (by MNDot standards) and dewatering for this project jeopardized permanently damaging Coldwater Springs. Fortunately, State Senator Julie Sabo and Representative Mark Gleason helped to pass legislation protecting Coldwater Spring from being destroyed by this project. Bob Fine listened to hundreds of residents express concerns about this project and the damage that would be caused to Coldwater Springs and Minnehaha Park. He decided to ignore residents comments and voted to transfer park landto MNDot. He was presented with over 14,000 signatures from residents that opposed this project. Many Sierra Club Members have serious concerns about a Park Board Member voting to giveMinneapolis parkland to be usedfor highway development. We never referred to Bob as our worst enemy on the Park Board and would not make that statement about any candidate. We would hope that Bob Fine would become more sensitive to the concerns of environmentalistsand understand his very close election was a reflection of his leadership. We look forward to working with the entire Park Board helping to protect and improve the environment for future generations. Respectfully. Ken Bradley Twin Cities Group Political Chair Sierra Club [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I recently was quite taken aback by Kurt Waltenbaugh's personal and slanderous attack on Bob Fine's character and record as a park commissioner. This was all done in his attempt to slam Marie Hauser for supporting Bob as President of the Board. Of course, if he had at least identified himself as living in the same house as Tracy Nordstrom (the loser in last fall's election) one might better understand his anger and bitterness. I've always understood the forum to be a place to share and learn from one another's opinions, so I would hope outright lies about another person would not be tolerated. Let me point out three unrefuteable examples of Waltenbaugh's false statements regarding Bob. First, he stated that Bob had said "he would honor the (DFL) endorsement" and not run for reelection if he lost. Think about it. Bob had been elected to an at-large seat without endorsement four years ago. He never said he wouldn't run without endorsement and probably never will, even though he's been active in the DFL party most of his adult life. Second, is Waltenbaugh's totally inaccurate portrayal of Bob trying to double the Park Board salaries and when that failed, leading the efforts to approve a 30% increase. Truth-of-the-matter is that Dean Zimmermann, supported by Young, Berry-Graves, and Dziedzic moved to almost double the salaries. To counter this proposal I moved and argued to support a more moderate increase to cover the next four years. This did pass on a 5-4 vote with Bob's support. Otherwise, salaries would have doubled. Thirdly, and probably Waltenbaugh's most absurd remark was that the Sierra Club called Bob "their worst enemy on the Park Board". I called the Sierra Club to verify this. They were quite upset that Waltenbaugh had attributed a statement like this to their organization and were going to investigate the matter. Any spokesperson out there from the Sierra Club? It is ridiculous that someone with Bob's record on environmental issues would be presented in that manner.Bob Fine was elected President of the Park Board by a vote of 8-1. Only Vivian Mason, who spent most of the fall campaigning for Nordstrom, voted against him. Marie Hauser was elected (not appointed) Vice-President by an 8-0-1 margin. The only non-vote was by Berry-Graves, who in the past had feigned gender issues in the make-up of the leadership of the Board. It is obvious an overwhelming majority of the Board supports this new leadership team, to imply differently is absurd.The election is over. Bob Fine won a hard fought, well-derved victory. It's time for people who truly care about our park system to put their energy into supporting it.Scott NeimanFormer 6th Park District
[Mpls] Lisa Goodman vote tally
Wow, how interesting that the Nobody (sorry Sean) running against Lisa Goodman (Ward 7) got almost 1 out of 5 votes. He even stated that he wasn't trying, he simply wanted to give people another choice on the ballot because he felt Lisa was a bully. I wonder how well someone could do next time if they had a little support, a little money and the desire to listen to their constituents? Lynne Lowder Stevens Square/Loring Heights www.thelydiahouse.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Lisa Goodman vote tally
Lynn Lowder writes: Wow, how interesting that the Nobody (sorry Sean) running against Lisa Goodman (Ward 7) got almost 1 out of 5 votes. He even stated that he wasn't trying, he simply wanted to give people another choice on the ballot because he felt Lisa was a bully. I wonder how well someone could do next time if they had a little support, a little money and the desire to listen to their constituents? But Lynn, isn't this the point: no one had enough support to challenge Lisa Goodman? Rather than assume some mythical candidate could beat her, default to reality: she had wide enough support no one BUT Flynn ran against her. Back when I was the lone liberal doing a morning-radio show on a conservative station, I told a politician I had a new appreciation for trying to win over people who were hostile on ideological grounds. He told me you don't try to win them over...paraphrasing Casey Stengal, he observed one-third of the electorate agreed with you, one-third vehemently disagreed, and one-third weren't sure. He said the trick was to win over the unsures and forget about the vehement disagreers. Now of course this percentage is anecdotal. But if only 17.4 percent (Sean Flynn's actual percentage) voted against Goodman, she's managed to upset a much lower percentage of people than politicians usually do. David Brauer King Field - Ward 10 _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
