RE: [Mpls] Racism and Politics
> > While I'm disturbed and disgusted by these individual prejudices, I > > recognize there is a huge difference between an individual making a > > bigoted, ignorant remark and the kind of institutionalized system > > that, for example, makes prison "the Blackest place in America" (to > > quote Mumia Abu-Jamal). > > Wesley Cook a/k/a Mumia Abu-Jamal is a cop killer. He murdered Officer > Daniel Faulkner of the Philadelphia PD in 1981, > was convicted in 1982, and subsequently sentenced to death. Oh dear members, let's not start a Mumia fight here. This is not a Minneapolis issue. David Brauer List manager REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Racism and Politics
On Sunday, September 28, 2003, at 08:42 AM, Michelle Gross wrote: While I'm disturbed and disgusted by these individual prejudices, I recognize there is a huge difference between an individual making a bigoted, ignorant remark and the kind of institutionalized system that, for example, makes prison "the Blackest place in America" (to quote Mumia Abu-Jamal). Wesley Cook a/k/a Mumia Abu-Jamal is a cop killer. He murdered Officer Daniel Faulkner of the Philadelphia PD in 1981, was convicted in 1982, and subsequently sentenced to death. Just in case no one remembers, or has heard of him. N.I. Krasnov Loring Park REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Racism and Politics
Doug Mann wrote: > If I correctly understand his point I agree with Michael that black > supremacism, discrimination against whites by blacks, and > prejudices that are widely held by blacks concerning whites are not > OK, positive, or progressive (and Michelle stated her agreement on > that point). Just to clarify and to be consistent: I am NOT saying that prejudice is "not OK" (although I agree it is not positive or progressive). As I have said before, prejudice is Constitutionally protected, e.g., if I want to believe in superiority of the White (or Black) race that is my right. We still do have freedom of thought in the United States (unless Ashcroft has pushed some new Terror initiative passed Congress). It is discrimination that is illegal. Prejudice is often a bad thing that results in unjust policies and dysfunctional behavior. But unlike Ms. Gross I will not be suggesting that prejudice people be required to take sensitivity classes. I do hope that we can all be fair, rational, and conscientious, but I also don't think it's something that we can or should dictate. My point in regards to the opponents of Mr. Jennings was that it is not consistent on the one had to cry racism in disadvantageous situations and then use racism to support your decision making process in another. If these people what to declare themselves Black supremacists all the power to them (I always thought that Farrakhan had a number of valid arguments). My major point was that Mr. Jennings or any other candidate should be judged on how effective their policies will be. The race of the superintendent seems to have little impact on student achievement. > Political power is usually concentrated in the hands of the > rich with support or passive acceptance by a majority of the > population. And racial inequality and discriminatory practices > has worked pretty well as a means to help the rich at the expense > of most people who have to work for a living. I don't know how much List members know about social class theory, but I don't believe that race places "hard" limits on how far you can advance in American Society these days. You've always had to be born into the upper-upper class. I think it's fair to say that Bill Cosby had risen to middle-upper and also fair to expect that his children or grandchildren may be upper-upper (if they live in the right areas, go to the right schools, belong to the right clubs, etc.). Don't forget that the Kennedys were Irish and it only took then a few generations to reach the cream of American Society. > JENNINGS > > But I haven't seen any evidence that Jennings > has had an epiphany that could transform him from a savvy > defender of the system to a savvy and dangerous revolutionary. I just saw Mr. Jennings on Almanac this morning. Whoa! I don't think this man has a clue about educational policy. I think that the school board is only interested in his business and political savvy. The Minneapolis School Board is not reformist, why should we expect them to hire someone who is? The Board is only interesting in maintaining the status quo and I think they've found their man. I PREDICT...that the educational policy person that Mr. Jennings is looking to hire will be a person of color! And, most likely ineffectual as well. I nominate A.B. Whitfield for superintendent. See story in NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/24/education/24PRIV.html I've been trying to get the Tribune to do a story about schools that work, there are enough of them in the country to get a glimmer about what needs to be done in the public schools. Michael Atherton Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Racism and Politics, Jennings & the Strib
In a message dated 9/28/2003 8:45:30 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > At 11:24 AM 9/27/03 -0500, Michael Atherton wrote: > >I have a different perspective than these numerous social scientists. > >I adhere to the common dictionary definition (2): > > > >ra-cism (rasizm) n. 1. The belief that race accounts for differences > >in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior > >to others. 2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race. > > > >It is interesting that Ms. Gross's definition allows people of > >color to discriminate on the basis of race, while excluding > >others. > > This is starting to sound like semantics. The point I was making is that > there is a distinct difference between individual prejudices and > institutionalized racism. This doesn't mean that individual prejudices are > okay--they are not. However, the methods for overcoming individual > prejudices (like diversity training, etc.) will not end institutionalized > racism. That's because institutionalized racism is perpetuated as a means > of social control that serves certain classes of people at the expense of > others... I think that both Michael and Michelle are making valid points. If I correctly understand his point I agree with Michael that black supremacism, discrimination against whites by blacks, and prejudices that are widely held by blacks concerning whites are not OK, positive, or progressive (and Michelle stated her agreement on that point). However, white supremacy is clearly the dominant ideology, an ideology that influences, to varying degrees, and in similar and complementary ways the perceptions and actions of a large majority of blacks, whites, and others. Racial inequality and the discriminatory practices that help to perpetuate it, including those of the "color blind" variety (such as curriculum tracking by perceived academic ability) generally reinforce the notion that the white race is, by nature superior to other races. Political power is usually concentrated in the hands of the rich with support or passive acceptance by a majority of the population. And racial inequality and discriminatory practices has worked pretty well as a means to help the rich at the expense of most people who have to work for a living. JENNINGS "The Prince" by Machievelli has been required reading in introductory 'political science' courses since 'political science' was invented. "The Prince" lays down some generally applicable guidelines for people in positions of political authority, and those who aspire to positions of political authority. Jennings has certainly demonstrated his ability to wield political power along the lines recommended by Machievelli. But I haven't seen any evidence that Jennings has had an epiphany that could transform him from a savvy defender of the system to a savvy and dangerous revolutionary. THE STRIB The Strib has been remarkably consistent in trying to make race the issue in its reportage of school news and school board elections, instead of a focus on school policy and the effects of school policy on the academic achievement gap between whites and blacks, poor and 'middle class' students, etc. For example, the Strib encouraged a protest vote for the black candidates who made it through the 2002 primary election because the Democrats didn't pick a token black candidate for the board. And the black candidates would bring a needed 'black perspective' to the board's decision-making process. But the Strib did not enlighten its readers how the perspective of the acceptable black candidates differed from the perspective of the acceptable white candidates. Carol Johnson was the candidate with just the right qualifications when the school board desperately needed someone who could help to tame the NAACP. Skin color became unimportant in the case of David Jennings because the princes of the school community are awe struck by Jenning's political savvy, and the black community can be dismissed as an inconsequential minority group. Allie Shah's latest piece about the negative reaction of those "self-appointed" black leaders to the board's appointment of Jennings is classic Strib education beat reporting. When did the pastors of black churches become "self appointed" leaders of church going blacks? When did the black leaders who the Strib usually goes to for quotes about the schools become "self-appointed" leaders? When they start saying things that the school community princes don't want to hear. I'm sure there are some blacks and whites who think that the superintendent job should be held by a black person and are making a fuss about the hiring process for that reason, but wouldn't make a fuss about the process if the board hired a black person who is qualified for the job of chief academic officer, such as assistant superintendent Cheryl Chrecy (I apologize if I got the spelling wrong)
RE: [Mpls] Racism and Politics
At 07:09 AM 9/28/03 -0700, Jason C Stone wrote: In all fairness, I believe that someone did indeed imply that Jennings was not qualified because of his race. Please review the snippet of the post from "Batala" below. If that was not the intention of the press release, it was poorly written. My perception of this issue is that some black community leaders did begin to use race as one of the issues for disqualifying Jennings, but that they are now backing away from that and using the other list of disqualifying factors. From: "Batala" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> We are outraged and insulted by the Minneapolis School Board appointment of David Jennings as Superintendent. We strenuously object to the improper appointment process. Further, David Jennings¹ selection is inappropriate. Jennings is not qualified to head the Minneapolis Public Schools District, a district that has 73.8% students of color. I guess I read both the original post and the statement one right after the other. My perception is that the statement above relates to concerns that Jennings has held some rather dubious positions on race issues while at the legislature and that this is what they felt made him "not qualified to head the Minneapolis Public Schools District, a district that has 73.8% students of color." But I can see how someone would read each piece in isolation and derive that the group was saying that Jennings is unfit only because he's white. You're right--that was probably a poor way for that group to lay out its arguments. It created unnecessary doubts about their rationales and agenda. Nonetheless, I still support their right to challenge this appointment based on what we now know to be their concerns. Michelle Gross Bryn Mawr REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Racism and Politics
Michelle said: --- Michelle Gross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On the original post that got this discussion started, nowhere in that post > or the statement that followed did people say that they did not want > Jennings because he isn't a person of color. That's something folks on > this list read into the post and statement. In all fairness, I believe that someone did indeed imply that Jennings was not qualified because of his race. Please review the snippet of the post from "Batala" below. If that was not the intention of the press release, it was poorly written. My perception of this issue is that some black community leaders did begin to use race as one of the issues for disqualifying Jennings, but that they are now backing away from that and using the other list of disqualifying factors. From: "Batala" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | This is spam | Add to Address Book To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: "al mcfarlane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Tyrone Terrill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Mpls] STATEMENT FROM BCC/AALS REGARDING DAVID JENNINGS Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:45:44 -0600 For immediate release Contact Reverend Randolph Staten, 612-521-2444 Black Church Coalition/African American Leadership Summit: Black Community Outraged by Selection of David Jennings as School Superintendent We are outraged and insulted by the Minneapolis School Board appointment of David Jennings as Superintendent. We strenuously object to the improper appointment process. Further, David Jennings¹ selection is inappropriate. Jennings is not qualified to head the Minneapolis Public Schools District, a district that has 73.8% students of color. * * * Jason Stone | Hale __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Racism and Politics
At 11:24 AM 9/27/03 -0500, Michael Atherton wrote: I have a different perspective than these numerous social scientists. I adhere to the common dictionary definition (2): ra-cism (rasizm) n. 1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. 2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race. It is interesting that Ms. Gross's definition allows people of color to discriminate on the basis of race, while excluding others. This is starting to sound like semantics. The point I was making is that there is a distinct difference between individual prejudices and institutionalized racism. This doesn't mean that individual prejudices are okay--they are not. However, the methods for overcoming individual prejudices (like diversity training, etc.) will not end institutionalized racism. That's because institutionalized racism is perpetuated as a means of social control that serves certain classes of people at the expense of others. It takes power to maintain the kinds of structures needed to keep institutionalized racism going. In general, people of color don't have access to that kind of power, though I've certainly known my share of people of color who harbor prejudices against other people of color, gays, immigrants, whites, Jews, etc. While I'm disturbed and disgusted by these individual prejudices, I recognize there is a huge difference between an individual making a bigoted, ignorant remark and the kind of institutionalized system that, for example, makes prison "the Blackest place in America" (to quote Mumia Abu-Jamal). Here's an example: A number of people on the list have made the astute observation that there are "impacted neighborhoods" or "containment areas" where transitional housing and other high-density units always seem to be placed by government and social service agencies. This isn't because the people who populate that housing just naturally gravitate to those particular neighborhoods and demand the housing be placed in those areas (Jim Graham's Grape and Jazz events notwithstanding). It's because people in power make decisions that this is where that housing will go. This system is perpetuated because wealthier folks do not want this kind of housing in their 'hoods and they've got the power and influence to keep those units out. This concentrates a lot of low income people, especially people of color, in certain areas of the city. Add to it the fact that these areas are chronically underfunded and underserved and this constitutes a form of institutionalized racism that appears to have been going on in this city for a long, long time. No amount of diversity training will get rid of that ingrained, systemic racism. It must be challenged in other ways. On the original post that got this discussion started, nowhere in that post or the statement that followed did people say that they did not want Jennings because he isn't a person of color. That's something folks on this list read into the post and statement. What I read was that people were concerned about the process in which he was selected and they are concerned about his qualifications and character based on his lack of on-the-ground experience in the schools and based on positions he has taken as a legislator. These seem like reasonable concerns to raise and rather than play the race card to silence the questioners, I would like to see these concerns addressed. Michelle Gross Bryn Mawr REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Racism and Politics (Jennings Hire)
I oppose the hiring of Jennings not only because of the hiring process and his lack of classroom teaching credentials, but also because of the agenda for school change that he supports. The statement by the black church group and leadership summit doesn't make race an issue in the text of its statement, but it did complain about the process by which Jennings was hired. Yet, the same black leadership groups approved of the board hiring Carol Johnson, which was done in exactly the same manner: No search, no hearings for public input. I never supported Carol Johnson because Carol Johnson never advocated policies that could close the academic achievement gap between whites and blacks, between poor and middle class students, etc. Carol Johnson did not change the direction in which the district was going under Peter Hutchinson (a white guy). And we have seen a widening of the academic performance gap and falling graduation rates under both of those administrations. -- Note: Beginning in 1998 the school district started cooking data on student achievement to show MPS students were "making gains above the national norm" in reading and math and that the district was "closing the gap." I think that a majority of whites and blacks in this city have an interest in making a quality, college-bound curriculum program accessible to all, and not just the "talented 10th" of black students and "talented" 40-50% of white students. Fewer than half of all MPS students entering grade 9 finish high school. The graduation rate for African American students is closer to 20% district wide and 33% county-wide and state-wide (blacks in the suburbs are generally doing a lot better). RACISM AND POLITICS Michelle Gross: "Numerous social scientists have defined racism as bigotry plus the power to back it up." Michael Atherton: "...the common dictionary definition (2): "ra-cism (rasizm) n. 1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. 2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race." I think it is better to use the dictionary definition of "racism." The way to tell whether or not someone is a racist by the dictionary definition is to observe their words and deeds. The way to tell if someone is a racist per the definition favored by Michelle Gross is to look at the color of their skin (White=racist / Black=not racist). The latter definition is worthless as an analytical tool and gets in the way of any serious discussion about how to eradicate 'racism' as it is commonly defined in standard dictionaries (Webster, etc.) I think it is also incorrect to say that blacks / people of color are generally powerless victims and that whites are generally powerful victimizers. Blacks are generally victimized by a social and political system that is based on economic exploitation and nourished by racism, per the common dictionary definition. Many whites are also victimized by the same system, but generally not in as many ways and to the same degree as blacks. The political elite in this city uses black people like Carol Johnson, Albert Gallmon and Sharon Henry Blythe to validate school policies that perpetuate racism. -Doug Mann, King Field soon to publish a pamphlet entitled Flight from Equality: School reform in the US since 1983 http://educationright.tripod.com REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Racism and Politics
Michelle Gross writes >"Michael is incorrect here. Numerous social scientists have defined racism as bigotry plus the power to back it up."< Michelle, on the very face this is a ridiculous statement. I believe numerous eminent social scientists (possibly even a majority) once said Black people were inferior mentally to Whites. I also seem to remember that Hitler was fond of using social scientists to define and justify his "social" actions. Some of the most prominent social scientists of that day I might add. Social scientists on one side probably condoned burning witches and justify almost any political action against humanity. Having been one I can unequivocally say that social scientists can be found to support anything you wish. I invite you to attend an American Sociological Association conference or an American Psychological Association meeting. You will find eminent social scientists fiercely arguing everything under the sun. At least half of them utterly wrong! The world is half filled with fools and the other half by those who take advantage of that fact. Racism also fits that mold. To say that Black people are so helpless that they cannot be racist is preposterous. What Michael Atherton's definition left off was that racism is also the illogical assumption and belief that race EVEN exists. (A theory proposed by most social scientists as well as geneticist that I am aware of) How much more evidence is needed to stop this cultural myth. There is simply no such thing as race. Genetically there is more difference between those of us who have a propensity to be fat or skinny from each other than the factors we commonly call race. This is when you can isolate those factors. If that gene pool is at all mixed then it is impossible. There is no they and we in this. It is just we!!! We are so mixed that I dare say that no one reading this is a pure anything other than human or possibly foolish. And all of us are most of the time those things I do not happen to believe in Satan either, but that does not mean that people will easily put away that social construct. We as humans seem to need some "others" to talk about and fear. I think it is about time, right here in the old River City of Minneapolis, to put away race just as we once did witchcraft. The earth really is not flat (though that theory was around longer than racism) and there really is nothing other than one race of humans. We got fat ones, skinny ones, short ones, tall ones, dark ones, light ones, yellow ones, black ones, white ones, red ones, hairy ones, bald ones, male ones, female ones, gay ones, straight ones, cute ones, ugly ones, bright ones, dumb ones, but they are all sadly still the same race. JUST HUMAN! We have met the evil enemy and it is us! Don't believe in race for a generation and it will go away. Doesn't mean we won't come up with another just as preposterous belief, we always do. Race will fade into the smoke that it was, and the twisted image in the mirrors of our minds, which it was. Jim Graham, Just a human from Ventura Village >"The attempt to close the gap between what is known and what IS, is the temptation behind the apple in Genesis."< REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Racism and Politics
> It is indeed nonsense, Michelle. When those same people complain to the list about the > issues > close to their heart, I will be first in line to tell 'em to keep their gripes to themselves and > save it for the polls. Folks, let's not personalize our disagreements excessively. Focus on the issues, not member behavior, please. David Brauer List manager REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Racism and Politics
Michelle Gross wrote: > >Michael Atherton: Mr. Brauer's objection to my analogy > >aside (power is not a necessary condition for racism), > >I believe that this declaration makes it fairly > >obvious that race is one factor in this group's objection to > >Mr. Jennings selection. > > Michael is incorrect here. Numerous social scientists have > defined racism as bigotry plus the power to back it up. Power > is the necessary ingredient that transforms individual bigotry > into institutionalized racism. Since whites have power in this > country and Blacks (and other people of color) generally don't, > racism is a uniquely white phenomenon, though bigotry is > not. For that reason, "reverse racism" is a myth in this > country because, except in small enclaves, people of color do > not have the power to act on prejudices to create widespread > systems and mechanisms to enforce those prejudices and use them > to maintain social control. I have a different perspective than these numerous social scientists. I adhere to the common dictionary definition (2): ra-cism (rasizm) n. 1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. 2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race. It is interesting that Ms. Gross's definition allows people of color to discriminate on the basis of race, while excluding others. Of course groups have always changed definitions to fit their political agendas, although not always in the direction of basic human rights and equality. As is the case here as well. The problem with allowing discrimination to be defined relatively, is that injustice oscillates from one group to another depending on the balance of power and the situation in which it is applied. A general focus on the rights of individuals makes the elimination of discrimination a matter of enforcement rather than an assessment of the relative distribution of power between individuals; a particularly dicey task. What I find astounding about this situation is that people are racially prejudice towards the current superintendent and yet this person has done nothing to change what appears to be a discriminatory system, i.e., it is not obvious that children of color are any better off now than previously. I think that we should at least hear what proposals Mr. Jennings has to make the system more equitable. That is the relevant issue here not his race or his past political actions (which are marginally incorrect). I have to admit that if Mr. Jennings has no such proposals then the Board should reconsider. I have no objections to people protesting, but given their current statement they should be willing to accept opposition to another candidate simply because they are Black and not because they might be the best choice. The idea that we should accept a Black superintendent just because African Americans are not as powerful as Whites is absurd. We should select a superintendent who will have the greatest positive impact on student achievement irregardless of their race. THAT was the Dream: the content of their character, not the color of their skin. Michael Atherton Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Racism and Politics
It is indeed nonsense, Michelle. When those same people complain to the list about the issues close to their heart, I will be first in line to tell 'em to keep their gripes to themselves and save it for the polls. Regards, Jason Stone \ Hale --- Michelle Gross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Then, when some people of color come forward to > express concern about the superintendent selection, folks on this list are > demanding that they stand down and "live with the consequences." What kind > of nonsense is that? __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
