Re: [mb-style] BoxSets

[Kuno Woudt]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 08:14:00PM -0400, Andrew Conkling wrote:
> "...as a pseudorelease", right? That was my impression last time it was
> discussed, but my memory is foggy and it was a while ago.

pseudoreleases are specifically for releases which don't exist, like fan
translations and transliterations of existing releases.

I am in favour of duplicating anything if it makes the data more
accurate, so I too prefer these BoxSets added in addition to the
non boxset releases.

-- kuno / warp.


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Re: [mb-style] multi-disc releases / box sets.

[Kuno Woudt]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 12:21:45PM -0400, Aaron Cooper wrote:
> Some things I thought could use some discussion:
> 
> 1. How will we link 8-disc sets?  Link discs 2-8 to disc 1?  That
> might work... if you visit the first disc, it pulls the other discs
> from the AR and if you visit one of the other discs it pulls from disc
> 1 and all disc 1's related discs.

I'm quite OK with linking all of them to the first disc.

I could also imagine a linked list, link each disc to the previous in 
the box if they're numbered. The benefit of this is that you know the
sequence without parsing (disc 1, disc 2) from the title.  Downside is 
that there is no single place you can query and know how many discs 
there are, etc..

> 2. Is it appropriate to link bonus discs with a release even though
> not all releases of a release came with the bonus disc?  I guess it
> wouldn't hurt and would be interesting if you could see the different
> bonus discs that came with a release.

This might encourage duplicates if certain people (people like me >_<) 
want the AR to be accurate, and split up a release into a version with 
and one without the bonus disc.  This should probably be specifically
allowed or disallowed in the guidelines accompanying the AR.

I don't think there is a way to link an AR to a specific release event,
but this isn't the first AR to rub against that issue (think re-releases 
or remasters with different credits).

> I'd definitely like to see something like this and I think it is a
> step in the right direction (grouping multiple-disc releases).

Great, I feared I'd be the only one thinking this was a good idea :)

-- kuno / warp.


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Re: [mb-style] BoxSets

[Steve Wyles]

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, Andrew Conkling wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 18:39, Aaron Cooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I hope I'm not presenting a biased opinion, but
>> I think we seemed to be heading towards a "if someone wants to add the
>> box set, let them" sort of approach.

Although the docs say differently, the current working policy is to add 
them. There have been a few attempts at changing the docs, all which 
have ended in disagreement, maybe it can be tried again when there is a 
new style bod.

However, I'd say add it as an Album. The actual boxset is a compilation, 
but the individual discs are re-releases.

Steve



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Re: [mb-style] BoxSets

[Mike Morrison]

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, Andrew Conkling wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 18:39, Aaron Cooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I hope I'm not presenting a biased opinion, but
>> I think we seemed to be heading towards a "if someone wants to add the
>> box set, let them" sort of approach.
>
>
> "...as a pseudorelease", right? That was my impression last time it was
> discussed, but my memory is foggy and it was a while ago.
>
> As for it being a biased opinion, well, everything is, at least everything
> that hasn't already been updated in the docs. :P

I would say, if we enter the box set discs, they should be real releases, 
not pseudoreleases. They do exist for real, whereas I think most 
pseudoreleases (transliterations etc.) are so named because they were not 
released in the "real world" in the form in which they appear in MB.

Mike


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Re: [mb-style] BoxSets

[Andrew Conkling]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 18:39, Aaron Cooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I hope I'm not presenting a biased opinion, but
> I think we seemed to be heading towards a "if someone wants to add the
> box set, let them" sort of approach.


"...as a pseudorelease", right? That was my impression last time it was
discussed, but my memory is foggy and it was a while ago.

As for it being a biased opinion, well, everything is, at least everything
that hasn't already been updated in the docs. :P
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Re: [mb-style] BoxSets

[Aaron Cooper]

On 16-Jul-08, at 3:17 PM, Simon Austin wrote:

> What's the policy with BoxSets of previous releases? Is it still  
> they're
> not a unique release? I ask because someone's added all 16 discs of  
> Pink
> Floyd's "Oh, By the Way"[1] and I think they're pretty much just the
> same releases as before, even down to matching DiscIDs[2]
>
> - Si
>
> [1]
>  >
> [2] 
>

Looks like our documentation says not to add those types of box sets  
[1], but I have the impression that this sentiment has changed over  
the last few months.  I hope I'm not presenting a biased opinion, but  
I think we seemed to be heading towards a "if someone wants to add the  
box set, let them" sort of approach.

[1] 
http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/WhatDefinesAUniqueRelease?highlight=%28unique%29#head-431368a6a71f2e13641867f880b84515edc311c6

-Aaron

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[mb-style] BoxSets

[Simon Austin]

What's the policy with BoxSets of previous releases? Is it still they're 
not a unique release? I ask because someone's added all 16 discs of Pink 
Floyd's "Oh, By the Way"[1] and I think they're pretty much just the 
same releases as before, even down to matching DiscIDs[2]

- Si

[1] 

[2] 

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Re: [mb-style] multi-disc releases / box sets.

[Aaron Cooper]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:11 AM, Kuno Woudt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 09:35:07AM +0200, Jan van Thiel wrote:
>> 2008/6/26 Kuno Woudt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> > I would like to have an AR to group multiple discs of a single releases.
>> > This would be intended as a temporary solution until we get proper
>> > release and boxset support with NGS.
>> >
>> > Considering this, not all that much time should be wasted on it.
>> >
>> > In it's simplest form, I would suggest an AR like this:
>> >
>> > album B  "is part of a release with"  album A
>>
>> What is the advantage over adding this as an annotation to each of the
>> discs involved?
>
> Machine readable.   In my current musicbrainz related scripts I'm
> grouping multiple discs of a single release together based on their
> release titles.  I have encountered many releases which don't neatly
> fit the (disc 1, disc 2) or (title, bonus disc) schemes, these
> releases confuse my script -- and instead of coding increasingly
> complicated heuristics it would be cleaner if I had _some_ structured
> way to record this information with musicbrainz and be able to query
> it.
>
> IMO, an AR for this is a simple solution which can be implemented now
> with relative ease, and will be easily converted to NGS whenever that
> materializes.

Some things I thought could use some discussion:

1. How will we link 8-disc sets?  Link discs 2-8 to disc 1?  That
might work... if you visit the first disc, it pulls the other discs
from the AR and if you visit one of the other discs it pulls from disc
1 and all disc 1's related discs.

2. Is it appropriate to link bonus discs with a release even though
not all releases of a release came with the bonus disc?  I guess it
wouldn't hurt and would be interesting if you could see the different
bonus discs that came with a release.

I'd definitely like to see something like this and I think it is a
step in the right direction (grouping multiple-disc releases).

-Aaron

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Re: [mb-style] multi-disc releases / box sets.

[Kuno Woudt]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 09:35:07AM +0200, Jan van Thiel wrote:
> 2008/6/26 Kuno Woudt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > I would like to have an AR to group multiple discs of a single releases.
> > This would be intended as a temporary solution until we get proper
> > release and boxset support with NGS.
> >
> > Considering this, not all that much time should be wasted on it.
> >
> > In it's simplest form, I would suggest an AR like this:
> >
> > album B  "is part of a release with"  album A
> 
> What is the advantage over adding this as an annotation to each of the
> discs involved?

Machine readable.   In my current musicbrainz related scripts I'm
grouping multiple discs of a single release together based on their
release titles.  I have encountered many releases which don't neatly
fit the (disc 1, disc 2) or (title, bonus disc) schemes, these
releases confuse my script -- and instead of coding increasingly
complicated heuristics it would be cleaner if I had _some_ structured 
way to record this information with musicbrainz and be able to query
it.  

IMO, an AR for this is a simple solution which can be implemented now
with relative ease, and will be easily converted to NGS whenever that
materializes.

-- kuno / warp.


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Re: [mb-style] multi-disc releases / box sets.

[Philipp Wolfer]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 9:35 AM, Jan van Thiel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> 2008/6/26 Kuno Woudt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > I would like to have an AR to group multiple discs of a single releases.
> > This would be intended as a temporary solution until we get proper
> > release and boxset support with NGS.
> >
> > Considering this, not all that much time should be wasted on it.
> >
> > In it's simplest form, I would suggest an AR like this:
> >
> > album B  "is part of a release with"  album A
>
> What is the advantage over adding this as an annotation to each of the
> discs involved?
>

An annotation is of course a solution, but with a proper technical solution
it becomes possible to find and group discs that belong together
automatically.

-- 
Philipp Wolfer
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Re: [mb-style] multi-disc releases / box sets.

[Jan van Thiel]

2008/6/26 Kuno Woudt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> I would like to have an AR to group multiple discs of a single releases.
> This would be intended as a temporary solution until we get proper
> release and boxset support with NGS.
>
> Considering this, not all that much time should be wasted on it.
>
> In it's simplest form, I would suggest an AR like this:
>
> album B  "is part of a release with"  album A

What is the advantage over adding this as an annotation to each of the
discs involved?

Jan (zout)

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