Re: [mb-style] http://www.akuma.de
On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 03:03:40PM -0700, Robert Kaye wrote: Someone from http://www.akuma.de contacted me and asked if we were interested in adding AR links to the akuma.de. They are also willing to help pay for the creation of the links. I'd rather do this: - Create the AR link (as we did for the BBC) - Have them have their own team add the links. - Have them send us a donation. What are the general thoughts on this? In general, creation of such ARs should go through the StyleCouncil. The BBC Music AR went through the regular RFC/RFV process, didn't get vetoed, and now is live. Someone needs to be willing to go through that process, either they themselves or someone else vouching/lobbying for them. Based on a few quick searches on the site (for german artists), I don't immediatly see any added value of akuma. I don't see any data we're not trying to capture ourselves. -- kuno / warp. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] http://www.akuma.de
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 12:03 AM, Robert Kayer...@eorbit.net wrote: Hi! Someone from http://www.akuma.de contacted me and asked if we were interested in adding AR links to the akuma.de. They are also willing to help pay for the creation of the links. I'd rather do this: - Create the AR link (as we did for the BBC) - Have them have their own team add the links. - Have them send us a donation. What are the general thoughts on this? I'd rather not add a site-specific AR for this. They don't seem to provide any valuable data. Discographies are from AMG (but apparently they use MB data too, but they don't promote it), videos are from YouTube, concert dates are from Eventful. If anything, I'd prefer to link to the source sites, not to a mashup. If this is just for money, we can automatically link to their search. -- Lukas Lalinsky lalin...@gmail.com ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] http://www.akuma.de
2009/6/9 Lukáš Lalinský lalin...@gmail.com On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 12:03 AM, Robert Kayer...@eorbit.net wrote: Hi! Someone from http://www.akuma.de contacted me and asked if we were interested in adding AR links to the akuma.de. They are also willing to help pay for the creation of the links. I'd rather do this: - Create the AR link (as we did for the BBC) - Have them have their own team add the links. - Have them send us a donation. What are the general thoughts on this? I'd rather not add a site-specific AR for this. They don't seem to provide any valuable data. Discographies are from AMG (but apparently they use MB data too, but they don't promote it), videos are from YouTube, concert dates are from Eventful. If anything, I'd prefer to link to the source sites, not to a mashup. If this is just for money, we can automatically link to their search. My first instinct was to agree with Lukáš. However, I wonder what the actual value of an AR is. Given the vagueness of some URL ARs (community page, the generic can be purchased for mail order at AR, etc), where just about any site is allowed, if it meets the generic conditions for the AR, I wouldn't see anything objectionable for sites which would be willing to pay for AR links, so long as 1) They actually pay, 2) they provide some data of use (even if it is a mashup - a freebase link wouldn't be objectionable to me, as a similar type of thing), 3) there is absolutely nothing harmful about the site - spyware, etc, 4) if the site sells mp3s or whatever, it's doing it legally, and 5) they are willing to do the work to add the ARs themselves. With most of the more useful music data sites moving towards interlinked data, where at least some data is coming from external sources (like MB), I think blocking sites just because they do mashups, apart from the $ issue, would be somewhat shortsighted. I would suggest, if this were done, that it not be an entirely new specific AR, but rather, a generic one, with this type of site a specific attribute to that AR. I can't figure just what the AR would be, but artist Foo has a (something) at akuma.de page http://bar;, rather than artist Foo has a akuma.de page at http://bar;. After all, what harm is there in adding links, so long as the links are actually for that artist? Brian ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] http://www.akuma.de
On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 07:00:12AM -0400, Brian Schweitzer wrote: After all, what harm is there in adding links, so long as the links are actually for that artist? clutter. -- kuno / warp. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] http://www.akuma.de
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:07 AM, Kuno Woudt k...@frob.nl wrote: On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 07:00:12AM -0400, Brian Schweitzer wrote: After all, what harm is there in adding links, so long as the links are actually for that artist? clutter. -- kuno / warp. While I agree that clutter should be avoided, the benefits of adding a new potential revenue stream for MusicBrainz (in addition to data licensing and Amazon-style sales revenues), especially given the current economic climate, shouldn't be overlooked. Imho, an additional AR (or a few, if other sites were to agree to something similar) isn't overly cluttering, especially if those revenues can be used for such development things as perhaps hiring a professional site designer, helping to pay for new hardware, more devs, etc... Brian ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] http://www.akuma.de
If money is the issue, then why don't we just put targeted Amazon or Google Ads all over the site rather than corrupting the dataset? I'm being facetious, but it's a serious point - moving into something that looks like selling ARs doesn't feel like the MB way to me. More careful consideration should definitely be given to a favoured partner where the contribution is multi-dimensional (to use a bad term), but this appears to be just a straight links-for-cash exchange given the lack of any useful data on their pages (currently). And if it's a links for cash exchange, the style community can't really make a decision on the merits. Clearly if they were gonna pay MB $10,000 a month it would be more likely to be considered than were they offering $100 - but in neither situation would style list members be equipped to make the commercial decision. So far (although admittedly early days) it seems everyone agrees there is no non-commercial value in links to Akuma for MB; which probably means no value to the data users of MB; so that would leave it as a solely commercial decision for MetaBrainz, right? Do we have an impending financial crisis at MB I'm not aware of? Chad / voice Brian Schweitzer wrote: On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:07 AM, Kuno Woudt k...@frob.nl mailto:k...@frob.nl wrote: On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 07:00:12AM -0400, Brian Schweitzer wrote: After all, what harm is there in adding links, so long as the links are actually for that artist? clutter. -- kuno / warp. While I agree that clutter should be avoided, the benefits of adding a new potential revenue stream for MusicBrainz (in addition to data licensing and Amazon-style sales revenues), especially given the current economic climate, shouldn't be overlooked. Imho, an additional AR (or a few, if other sites were to agree to something similar) isn't overly cluttering, especially if those revenues can be used for such development things as perhaps hiring a professional site designer, helping to pay for new hardware, more devs, etc... Brian ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] http://www.akuma.de
+1 Atedos schreef: If money is the issue, then why don't we just put targeted Amazon or Google Ads all over the site rather than corrupting the dataset? I'm being facetious, but it's a serious point - moving into something that looks like selling ARs doesn't feel like the MB way to me. More careful consideration should definitely be given to a favoured partner where the contribution is multi-dimensional (to use a bad term), but this appears to be just a straight links-for-cash exchange given the lack of any useful data on their pages (currently). And if it's a links for cash exchange, the style community can't really make a decision on the merits. Clearly if they were gonna pay MB $10,000 a month it would be more likely to be considered than were they offering $100 - but in neither situation would style list members be equipped to make the commercial decision. So far (although admittedly early days) it seems everyone agrees there is no non-commercial value in links to Akuma for MB; which probably means no value to the data users of MB; so that would leave it as a solely commercial decision for MetaBrainz, right? Fully agree. ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] http://www.akuma.de
- Brian Schweitzer brian.brianschweit...@gmail.com a écrit : On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:07 AM, Kuno Woudt k...@frob.nl wrote: On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 07:00:12AM -0400, Brian Schweitzer wrote: After all, what harm is there in adding links, so long as the links are actually for that artist? clutter. -- kuno / warp. While I agree that clutter should be avoided, the benefits of adding a new potential revenue stream for MusicBrainz (in addition to data licensing and Amazon-style sales revenues), especially given the current economic climate, shouldn't be overlooked. Imho, an additional AR (or a few, if other sites were to agree to something similar) isn't overly cluttering, especially if those revenues can be used for such development things as perhaps hiring a professional site designer, helping to pay for new hardware, more devs, etc... But if you go that way, you're also changing the MB spirit and polluting the data and the web site. In consequence you could lose editors that would leave the project or not anymore attract new ones. And community/editors are the heart of MB. If MB really needs money, there are other ways. Chad has described a few ones. Another one is making an announcement and calling for donations. I'm sure the community would positively react, despite the current economic climate. - Aurélien ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
Re: [mb-style] http://www.akuma.de
On Jun 9, 2009, at 8:22 AM, Chad Wilson wrote: If money is the issue, Its not a money issue. Do we have an impending financial crisis at MB I'm not aware of? Fortunately not, no. The people behind akuma contacted me about adding the links and they offered to put money on the table. Not wanting to turn down free money, I wanted to gauge the feedback from the community (thats why this wasn't an RFC, Warp). And I think the community has clearly spoken -- I'll go tell them we're not interested. Thanks everyone! -- --ruaok A village in Texas has its fool back! Robert Kaye -- r...@eorbit.net --http://mayhem-chaos.net ___ Musicbrainz-style mailing list Musicbrainz-style@lists.musicbrainz.org http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-style
