Re: How to automatically send jpeg files as attachments?
Will Yardley mutt-us...@veggiechinese.net writes: On Sat, Dec 01, 2012 at 05:12:05AM +, Jeffery Small wrote: Within a script, I would like to use mutt to automatically email a JPEG file as an attachment without user intervention. Is there any way to accomplish this? (And if not with mutt, then possibly with mail(1) or mailx(?)) When I try to use the -a option to mutt, it always responds: unable to attach file. Also, from the commandline, I don't know how to tell mutt to base64 encode the file. I could encode the file manually before passing it to mutt, but I'm still at a loss as to how to get mutt to properly attach it to the message. You shouldn't need to do any special encoding, and mutt -a should do what you want. What is the exact command line you're using, and what's the *full* error? Searching for the error message you're getting briefly, it looks like this error may come up when the -a argument is specified before the recipient rather than after (and if that's the case, you'll notice that the recipient address, rather than the filename, is what it can't attach). Otherwise, it could be a permissions or file path related problem. Something like this should work: % echo 'This is my body' | mutt -s 'file attached' \ m...@example.com -a image001.jpg Whereas this gives an error: % echo 'This is my body' | mutt -s 'file attached' -a \ image001.jpg m...@example.com Can't stat m...@example.com: No such file or directory m...@example.com: unable to attach file. Will: Thanks so much for your quick reply. You are exactly right, the problem was that the -a file argument was before the address argument and it was taking the address as a file to be attached. I was confused by the error message because when it gave the message (using your example): m...@example.com: unable to attach file. I thought the m...@example.com: part was simply identifying the recipient and that it was complaining about the other file being unable to be attached. I didn't realize that this was trying to tell me that it thought m...@example.com was a non-existent file. I was further confused because it turns out that there is also an older 1.4 version of mutt on this machine, and when I read the manual page, I was getting the old documentation. This read: mutt [-nx] [-e cmd] [-a file] [-F file] [-H file] [-i file] [-s subj] [-b addr] [-c addr] addr [...] which clearly shows the -a option before the address and with only a single file argument. When I corrected things and got to the proper manpage, it reads: mutt [-nx] [-e cmd] [-F file] [-H file] [-i file] [-s subj] [-b addr] [-c addr] [-a file [...] --] addr|mailto_url [...] which shows the support for the multiple arguments to the -a option, which can be terminated with -- which also works in my tests. I'm back in business thanks to your help which is very much appreciated. Regards, -- Jeffery Small
Re: Please set your line wrap to a sane value (was ... Re: Is there any gmane.org user in the list?)
[ Derek Martin Wrote On Fri 30.Nov'12 at 17:17:22 GMT ] On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 03:23:58PM +, Jamie Paul Griffin wrote: There could be any number of reasons why someone might not compose a perfect message: there could be learning difficulties, some other physical impairment, someone very young and new to the concept of technical mailing lists, etc. And what you generally see, INCLUDING in the case which generated this thread, is a great deal of tolerance from the community for such things, followed by polite requests to please follow the local custom. What you saw in this thread, after that polite request, was the violent reaction to responses that essentially amounted to screw the convention, I wanna do it my way. That's unfair. I do not believe I have written anything that amounted to screw the convention as you put it. I have written that I agree with the convention and have changed my line-wrapping to conform so people can read my messages more easily. My point was simple - why get so upset and send unnecessary and overly critical responses over something which is really just a mistake, on my part. I didn't wrap my lines to 72 comlumns, i'm sorry about that, I will wrap my lines appropriately from now on and do my best to ensure other formatting conventions are adhered to. Long lines != the end of the world. Simple as that.
Re: email has changed, you won't change everyone, and you don't have to
On 2012-11-30, Gray Calhoun g...@clhn.co wrote: Etiquette varies based on the domain (e.g. where you are). There is not one single etiquette for the universe. In Japan, tipping is often regarded as extremely offensive. In the US, tipping is often expected. This is true, etiquette varies with the domain. I haven't been on this email list for long, but I'm astonished that there's serious debate that the established email etiquette for the Mutt mailing list is anything but 72 to 76 characters per line. Even if there's no FAQ for the mailing list (that I can find). Are you attempting to claim that in a general discussion about email accross the internet only mutt-users etiquette can be discussed on the mutt mailing list? Mutt is not only used to read the mutt-users mailing list-- that's the error in your judgement. Mutt can be used to participate on a microsoft-fans mailing list, if one desires. But, please, if you think there's a need, feel free to start another mailing list for Mutt users that explicitly states a different convention for line length. I'm sure there will be massive uptake. If you think there's a need to restrict the Mutt tool to only accommodate participation on mutt-users, your work is cut out for making that convincing.
Re: Please set your line wrap to a sane value (was ... Re: Is there any gmane.org user in the list?)
=- Jamie Paul Griffin wrote on Sat 1.Dec'12 at 8:38:57 + -= Long lines != the end of the world. Simple as that. ... _for you_. But it can mean the beginning of the end for efficient communication, when everybody starts caring less and less for it by introducing (and trying to establish) all the other transgressions. -- © Rado S. -- You must provide YOUR effort for your goal! EVERY effort counts: at least to show your attitude. You're responsible for ALL you do: you get what you give.
Re: email has changed, you won't change everyone, and you don't have to
On 2012-11-30, Derek Martin inva...@pizzashack.org wrote: I agree; good reasons for the existing standards have been put forth. Arguments against those standards and said reasons have contained fallacious logic. This is the first such claim. No one has yet called out any fallacy in logic with regards to allowing the reader to control the width. OTOH, this does not mean you cannot claim it now. If you think it's a fallacy, explain, and perhaps you'll have something. Until then, you can't win a debate by citing points that were not expressed. Nearly all of them have been proposed by people of limited and brief experience, people without substantial experience in large and diverse environments, people who do not understand how email actually works, people who do not grasp the scalability issues involved, people who have never read the RFCs, people who have never used more than one email client or operating system, people who make the serious mistake of reading their email with a web browser, =20 This is a false cause fallacy. =20 False. This is not a statement of cause, No, it is in fact a statement of cause. You're just not finding it because it was not an /explicit/ textbook form of A is the cause of B. But it does in fact imply A from B, and it's backwards, and therefore a logical fallacy. and not even an attempt at one. Indeed it was not thought through. That's part of the problem. It is an observation of fact, with an *implied* consequence: people with inadequate experience are unlikely to be qualified to make useful suggestions. False cause. Yes, poor choices is a consequence of an inexperienced background. The reverse is not necessarily so, so it's a lost cause. It's a red herring because it fails to explicitly state a cause effect, and the implied cause-effect is a false cause. Advocates on either side could make this same errors in judgement,=20 Absolutely. However the advantage which those on the side of the established standards have is that their position is, almost universally, backed by those who actually do have the knowledge and experience to know better. Actually being a proponent of a particular standard only indicates indoctrination. It takes a deeper understanding to see the failures of a standard and support a platform to promote advancement of the standard. people who simply want to do what they want to do because their world view is myopic and selfish, =20 Actually it's quite the contrary. Now before going into that, first you should understand a proper tool can make composition equally simple, regardless of wrapping style. =20 This point is irrelevant, because the craftsman can use only the tools available to him. Nonsense. The craftsman /makes/ tools. The craftman who only uses what's available is no craftsman. Not that it matters- to make standards driven by tools is like writing requirements based on the code -- it's backwards. Or he can invent his own; except that if he needs someone else to be able to work with the product of his labor, then he needs to make certain his product is capable of being used by the tools they want to use. Otherwise he may find himself sitting alone in his workshop with a product no one wants (SEE BELOW). The chicken-egg problem you claim is delusional. You do not need a partner to make a product. A single individual or single organization can even craft a whole suite of tools from scratch if they so please, and they can be the first to do so. There are literally thousands of tools exist for handling e-mail, and NONE OF THEM WORK THE WAY YOU WANT. This is conventional wisdom. Again, the merit of a standard should not be bounded by the capability of existing tools. So not only to you need to establish a new standard, but you need to update all the existing tools to support it. No you don't. Tools become deprecated. Accept it. As a practical matter, the benefit of whatever difference in format you're about to suggest is vastly outweighed by the monumental amount of work required to make the world support it (AND SEE BELOW). I disagree. This is trivially simple text manipulation. Your perceived effort is only monumental because you believe every tool in existence must be updated. And you believe this in a world where many tools are non-compliant as it is, in some cases due to lack of maintainer motivation, and in other cases by design. This is no reason to resist improvements on standards. Any of the points you make which follow from this one are therefore invalid as a practical fact, regardless of whether they may be correct from the perspective of formal logic. An opinion cannot be invalid, only a fact can. If I've stated a matter of fact that you want to challenge, feel free. This is why I like quoting. It enables readers to know what you're talking about. Dodging this approach by hiding what you're referring to only exposes the weakness in what
Re: Please set your line wrap to a sane value (was ... Re: Is there any gmane.org user in the list?)
[ Rado S Wrote On Sat 1.Dec'12 at 9:17:29 GMT ] =- Jamie Paul Griffin wrote on Sat 1.Dec'12 at 8:38:57 + -= Long lines != the end of the world. Simple as that. ... _for you_. But it can mean the beginning of the end for efficient communication, when everybody starts caring less and less for it by introducing (and trying to establish) all the other transgressions. ... and I agree completely. As I wrote, I now wrap my lines and will make extra effort to ensure message formatting conforms so they are more readable. I don't like upsetting people, and I have taken on board all the valid and sensible points raised with regards to message formatting. I don't like html, weird content-type stuff that makes messages difficult to read either, I never intended to argue against that.
Few questions about colors and regex
Hello, I have a few question about the use of color. Starting with the
simpler:
- can I use `underline` with color? I think not, I tried but I failed
but I also found on Internet some config files with this
configuration;
- does exist a non greedy version of * (0 or more) in mutt's regexp (In
vim is \{-})? I'd like to highlight *bla bla* but not *this*
^^^
this
should be not highlighted
This is what I have actually:
color body brightdefault default \
(^| )\\*([-a-z0-9*]+\\*|[-a-z0-9*][-a-z0-9* ]*[-a-z0-9*]+)\\*[[:punct:]]?(
|$)
- can I `highligh` only the header name and not the full header? i.e.:
Subject: blablabla
thanks
m.
mutt users are too sheltered (was Re: Please set your line wrap to a sane value)
On 2012-12-01, Rado Q l%...@gmx.de wrote: =- Jamie Paul Griffin wrote on Sat 1.Dec'12 at 8:38:57 + -= Long lines != the end of the world. Simple as that. ... _for you_. But it can mean the beginning of the end for efficient communication, when everybody starts caring less and less for it by introducing (and trying to establish) all the other transgressions. Jamie actually did this list a service. Overly sheltered mutt users have a tendancy to lose touch. Jamie's post actually exposed a mutt characteristic that can be improved. Regardless of which standards a mutt user endorses, a good quality tool is lenient in what it accepts, handles it well, while being strict in what it produces. Yet mutt is not good at handling common deviations from standards and conventions. Mutt would improve if mutt developers received more garbage that could be salvaged into something that's readable. I think this is why mutt's encryption interoperability suffers. Mutt is good with GPG, but it's lousy with S/MIME. While Outlook does S/MIME okay, it does not even recognize a GPG message at all, and Outlook plugins are lousy with GPG. This division between mutt users and users of crappy tools would only be favorable for mutt if mutt were the dominant tool - but it's not.
Re: Please set your line wrap to a sane value (was ... Re: Is there any gmane.org user in the list?)
On 2012-12-01, Jamie Paul Griffin ja...@kode5.net wrote: ... and I agree completely. As I wrote, I now wrap my lines and will make extra effort to ensure message formatting conforms so they are more readable. I don't like upsetting people, and I have taken on board all the valid and sensible points raised with regards to message formatting. I don't like html, weird content-type stuff that makes messages difficult to read either, I never intended to argue against that. Hold on.. regardless of etiquette, you exposed a mutt weakness, and caused an appropriately large spotlight on the matter. Hopefully mutt developers will be influenced to continue improving mutt. As mutt users become increasingly surrounded by garbage, isolation is not practical.
Re: Few questions about colors and regex
=- Marco Giusti wrote on Sat 1.Dec'12 at 11:34:45 +0100 -=
- can I use `underline` with color? I think not, I tried but I
failed but I also found on Internet some config files with this
configuration;
Not yet, patches welcome.
- does exist a non greedy version of * (0 or more) in mutt's regexp (In
vim is \{-})? I'd like to highlight *bla bla* but not *this*
No, exclude '*' in greedy-relevant matches.
See wiki - configlist - my wrapper script for HI_STAR.
- can I `highligh` only the header name and not the full header? i.e.:
Subject: blablabla
Not yet, patches welcome.
--
© Rado S. -- You must provide YOUR effort for your goal!
EVERY effort counts: at least to show your attitude.
You're responsible for ALL you do: you get what you give.
Re: email has changed, you won't change everyone, and you don't have to
On 01.12.12 09:45, Tony's unattended mail wrote: On 2012-11-30, Derek Martin inva...@pizzashack.org wrote: Only because I got sick of replying to your nonsense. You gave up. That will fail you every time. Long threads have a tendency to degenerate into a trailing BS session, but they don't have to. If you both gave up this pointless drivel, at least on-list, the global sum of visible foolishness would decline. We pretty nearly all thank you in advance, if I'm not mistaken. Erik -- If what they've been doing hasn't solved the problem, tell them to do something else. - Gerald Weinberg, The Secrets of Consulting
Re: mutt users are too sheltered (was Re: Please set your line wrap to a sane value)
=- Tony's unattended mail wrote on Sat 1.Dec'12 at 10:41:11 + -= Jamie actually did this list a service. Overly sheltered mutt users have a tendancy to lose touch. Jamie's post actually exposed a mutt characteristic that can be improved. a) improving mutt is good: go ahead. b) this doesn't mean users should deteriorate in their awareness, consciousness and consideration. Regardless of which standards a mutt user endorses, a good quality tool is lenient in what it accepts, handles it well, while being strict in what it produces. see a). Yet mutt is not good at handling common deviations from standards and conventions. Mutt would improve if mutt developers received more garbage that could be salvaged into something that's readable. No, thanks, we had enough of it. Currently the coders/requesters ration is close to 0. It's not like more catchup stuff is being denied, there is no code. Provide it, then see. If still unhappy... This division between mutt users and users of crappy tools would only be favorable for mutt if mutt were the dominant tool - but it's not. This appears to me like the Uncertainty principle: dominance doesn't relate well to not crappy. The masses don't go for quality but lazyness. Sad, even depressing, but that's how it goes. If there are exceptions, they are _very_ rare. =- Tony's unattended mail wrote on Sat 1.Dec'12 at 10:46:32 + -= Hold on.. regardless of etiquette, you exposed a mutt weakness, and caused an appropriately large spotlight on the matter. Hopefully mutt developers will be influenced to continue improving mutt. See a): _you_ _are_ the developer. As mutt users become increasingly surrounded by garbage, isolation is not practical. ... must think about it a bit before answering this... -- © Rado S. -- You must provide YOUR effort for your goal! EVERY effort counts: at least to show your attitude. You're responsible for ALL you do: you get what you give.
Re: mutt users are too sheltered (was Re: Please set your line wrap to a sane value)
* On 01 Dec 2012, Tony's unattended mail wrote: Regardless of which standards a mutt user endorses, a good quality tool is lenient in what it accepts, handles it well, while being strict in what it produces. Yes, that's generally our principle. Yet mutt is not good at handling common deviations from standards and conventions. Mutt would improve if mutt developers received more garbage that could be salvaged into something that's readable. No? I find it's good. I receive a lot of garbage, and I find it's pretty readable by means of salvage. Is there something specific you have in mind? I use mutt, and I have no issues with anyone's lines. If you do, and you're not Chris Bannister (who already did), explain the problem. I don't think I'm sheltered. I work in a Microsoft environment, and a majority of my coworkers have never used UNIX, an 80-column display, Usenet, etc. They write without line breaks, they sign their e-mail in green Comic Sans with institutional logos, and they top-post. I'm only sampling this thread, but I think most of it is academic tussling. I don't see anyone illustrating any actual problems in mutt, aside from Chris's noting that mutt says (all) when it hasn't shown all of the message. That's a genuine usability problem, albeit not a major one. I think this is why mutt's encryption interoperability suffers. Mutt is good with GPG, but it's lousy with S/MIME. While Outlook does S/MIME okay, it does not even recognize a GPG message at all, and Outlook plugins are lousy with GPG. If you can't submit a patch, talk about what needs to be changed, and submit descriptions of a proposed workflow, UI model, etc. I don't use S/MIME, have no use for it, so it's hard for me to extend my thinking to what's wrong with our implementation. Likewise I can't fix any problems in the Swiss German translation, because I don't use Swiss German and can't think like a natural user of Swiss German and I don't have time to learn to use Swiss German and find Swiss German speakers to communicate with just to address a software issue. One of mutt's original core design goals was good OpenPGP support. Our S/MIME support was added in stages by early adopters of S/MIME in a predominantly PGP world, and though I lack data, I suspect our PGP users still far outnumber our S/MIME users. So if our S/MIME support is lousy, that's completely undertandable. We need someone who uses it to deal with it. Abstractly, I would like for mutt to have good S/MIME support, but I can't worry about it enough to start S/MIME-based conversations on a significant scale for the sole purpose of learning for myself what might be wrong with our S/MIME support. At the risk of more gratuitous intellectualization of a simple issue, I'm not keen on most descriptions of free or open or whatever source. I think they miss much of the point. I think of mutt, and most other popular open source software, as *community-sourced*: it depends not only on the openness of its codebase, but on the communal origins of its ideas. So if there's a problem, let's commune. Mutt would improve if mutt developers [were or did whatever]. Turn that around. If you are or do whatever, become a developer. You don't have to write code. -- David Champion • d...@bikeshed.us
Threaded sort not working where using Subject: rather than Mail-Id:
I have the following in my muttrc file relating to thread sorting:- folder-hook . 'set sort=threads;set hostname=' folder-hook sentmail set sort=date-sent Up to now this has worked fine as most of the lists I belong to are well behaved and preserve the Mail-Id:. However I now have a list where this isn't so and I'm not getting 'pseudo-threads' linked by the Subject:. I have tried adding set strict_threads=no (should be the default anyway) but this hasn't helped. I have no other thread related settings that I know of. How can I get threading to work using subjects? -- Chris Green
Re: Please set your line wrap to a sane value (was ... Re: Is there any gmane.org user in the list?)
* Jim Graham spooky1...@gmail.com [12-01-12 00:06]: On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 11:15:42PM -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote: Yahoo now requires posting from a yahoo account via their smtp or from their web service, since last year some time. I have dropped all but one group, but only read. I refuse to use their web service. Strange...because one of the local e-mail lists I'm on (Amateur Radio) is a yahoo group, and I do see posts from non-yahoo accounts (including gmail, cox, aol, gnt, et al). These are recent, not old posts. Perhaps this only applies to new lists or new list members? Pls excuse failing memory, you are correct. The problem with my posts to yahoo lists is I post with a gmail addr but smtp via my isp, not gmail. And I will not or have not seen the necessity to set up a *special* smtp just for yahoo lists. The importance in my mind is not there. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.orgPhoto Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net
Re: mutt users are too sheltered (was Re: Please set your line wrap to a sane value)
* Tony's unattended mail tony.parker-9o8uv...@cool.fr.nf [12-01-12 05:43]: On 2012-12-01, Rado Q l%...@gmx.de wrote: =- Jamie Paul Griffin wrote on Sat 1.Dec'12 at 8:38:57 + -= Long lines != the end of the world. Simple as that. ... _for you_. But it can mean the beginning of the end for efficient communication, when everybody starts caring less and less for it by introducing (and trying to establish) all the other transgressions. Jamie actually did this list a service. Overly sheltered mutt users have a tendancy to lose touch. Jamie's post actually exposed a mutt characteristic that can be improved. Regardless of which standards a mutt user endorses, a good quality tool is lenient in what it accepts, handles it well, while being strict in what it produces. Yet mutt is not good at handling common deviations from standards and conventions. Mutt would improve if mutt developers received more garbage that could be salvaged into something that's readable. Yes, it would really be good if mutt would turn on my coffee, raise the shades and adjust the heat/cooling for me every morning. :0: * ^From:.*tony\.parker\-\*\@cool\.fr\.nf /dev/null -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.orgPhoto Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net
Re: Threaded sort not working where using Subject: rather than Mail-Id:
[ Chris Green Wrote On Sat 1.Dec'12 at 11:35:23 GMT ] I have the following in my muttrc file relating to thread sorting:- folder-hook . 'set sort=threads;set hostname=' folder-hook sentmail set sort=date-sent Up to now this has worked fine as most of the lists I belong to are well behaved and preserve the Mail-Id:. However I now have a list where this isn't so and I'm not getting 'pseudo-threads' linked by the Subject:. I have tried adding set strict_threads=no (should be the default anyway) but this hasn't helped. I have no other thread related settings that I know of. How can I get threading to work using subjects? -- Chris Green Hi Chris, take a look at $sort_aux in man muttrc - this should help you achieve what you need. Jamie
Re: Please set your line wrap to a sane value (was ... Re: Is there any gmane.org user in the list?)
On 2012-12-01, jim graham spooky1...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Dec 01, 2012 at 02:12:03AM +, Grant Edwards wrote: On 2012-11-30, Jim Graham spooky1...@gmail.com wrote: announcement type list for the freeware hurricane tracker (JStrack) [] It's a google groups list. If needed I can change the killfile rule so that it doesn't apply to a particular group If you're using procmail, it's easy...just whitelist the group you want first. I use slrn for reading newsgroups and mailing lists (via gmane.org). I find it much more efficient than actually having mailing list postings sent to me where I have to sort them and archive them. The slrn .score file syntax has a method for specifying which groups a rule apples ot does not apply to. -- Grant
Re: Please set your line wrap to a sane value (was ... Re: Is there any gmane.org user in the list?)
On 2012-12-01, Patrick Shanahan ptilopt...@gmail.com wrote: * Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com [11-30-12 21:13]: ... I think the Yahoo list server can be used by anybody (I guess you have to sign up for a Yahoo account, to do admin stuff). They offer a web UI, but you don't actually have to use it -- you can subscribe to it using any e-mail address by using the usual sort of e-mail command and never have to touch the web UI if you don't want to. Yahoo now requires posting from a yahoo account via their smtp or from their web service, Weird. I posted to a Yahoo list two weeks ago by sending an e-mail via GMail's SMTP server. At the time I didn't even have a Yahoo account. I have since created a Yahoo account so I could access the download files area for one of the lists, but I still don't use it to access the list. since last year some time. I have dropped all but one group, but only read. I refuse to use their web service. It must vary by list. -- Grant
Re: Please set your line wrap to a sane value (was ... Re: Is there any gmane.org user in the list?)
* Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com [12-01-12 10:27]: On 2012-12-01, Patrick Shanahan ptilopt...@gmail.com wrote: * Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com [11-30-12 21:13]: ... I think the Yahoo list server can be used by anybody (I guess you have to sign up for a Yahoo account, to do admin stuff). They offer a web UI, but you don't actually have to use it -- you can subscribe to it using any e-mail address by using the usual sort of e-mail command and never have to touch the web UI if you don't want to. Yahoo now requires posting from a yahoo account via their smtp or from their web service, Weird. I posted to a Yahoo list two weeks ago by sending an e-mail via GMail's SMTP server. At the time I didn't even have a Yahoo account. I have since created a Yahoo account so I could access the download files area for one of the lists, but I still don't use it to access the list. since last year some time. I have dropped all but one group, but only read. I refuse to use their web service. It must vary by list. I am not explaining properly/sufficiently. Yahoo *requires* your posting addr matches your smtp. Mine does not and I will not open *more* spam floodgates. I post via my isp using a gmail addr and my isp smtp. It does not match yahoo's req's as the posting addr and smtp do not match. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.orgPhoto Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net
Re: Please set your line wrap to a sane value (was ... Re: Is there any gmane.org user in the list?)
On 2012-12-01, Patrick Shanahan ptilopt...@gmail.com wrote: * Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com [12-01-12 10:27]: On 2012-12-01, Patrick Shanahan ptilopt...@gmail.com wrote: Yahoo now requires posting from a yahoo account via their smtp or from their web service, Weird. I posted to a Yahoo list two weeks ago by sending an e-mail via GMail's SMTP server. At the time I didn't even have a Yahoo account. I have since created a Yahoo account so I could access the download files area for one of the lists, but I still don't use it to access the list. since last year some time. I have dropped all but one group, but only read. I refuse to use their web service. It must vary by list. I am not explaining properly/sufficiently. Yahoo *requires* your posting addr matches your smtp. Ah, that's indeed quite different than what you wrote previously. Requring that the From: address match up with the sending SMTP server is not an unusual anti-spam measure. Mine does not and I will not open *more* spam floodgates. All you need to do is to send the message via the GMail smtp server. How does that open more spam floodgates? I have mutt configured to send mail via GMail's SMTP server when I'm using my GMail address, and I don't think it's created any additional spam. I post via my isp using a gmail addr and my isp smtp. It does not match yahoo's req's as the posting addr and smtp do not match. In the past, I've found that causes problems with other destinations as well. I suspect it's comparing the From: address, the envelope from, the SMTP sender, and the Return-Path: values. If they don't match up in certain ways, it's being tossed as likely spam/phishing. I know my employer's MS Outlook server does that, though I don't remember exactly which combinations have to match... -- Grant
Re: Few questions about colors and regex
On Sat, Dec 01, 2012 at 11:50:48AM +0100, Rado Q wrote:
- does exist a non greedy version of * (0 or more) in mutt's regexp (In
vim is \{-})? I'd like to highlight *bla bla* but not *this*
No, exclude '*' in greedy-relevant matches.
See wiki - configlist - my wrapper script for HI_STAR.
Thanks, the link[*] to the pic is brocken.
[*] http://ghb-hamburg.de/rado/mutt/muttscr.gif
Re: Please set your line wrap to a sane value (was ... Re: Is there any gmane.org user in the list?)
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 11:15:42PM -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote: * Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com [11-30-12 21:13]: ... I think the Yahoo list server can be used by anybody (I guess you have to sign up for a Yahoo account, to do admin stuff). They offer a web UI, but you don't actually have to use it -- you can subscribe to it using any e-mail address by using the usual sort of e-mail command and never have to touch the web UI if you don't want to. Yahoo now requires posting from a yahoo account via their smtp or from their web service, since last year some time. I have dropped all but one group, but only read. I refuse to use their web service. I'm still posting to a couple of yahoo groups using my ISP's mail server - until recently I had been posting from googlemail [ the original name for gmail in GB ] using my browser (went on an extended vacation where I wanted to keepreading those groups, never got round to restoring the delivery account at yahoo until a month or so ago). ĸen ['ken' if you have problems with the glyph :) ] -- das eine Mal als Tragödie, das andere Mal als Farce
Re: Threaded sort not working where using Subject: rather than Mail-Id:
On Sat, Dec 01, 2012 at 01:24:47PM +, Jamie Paul Griffin wrote: [ Chris Green Wrote On Sat 1.Dec'12 at 11:35:23 GMT ] I have the following in my muttrc file relating to thread sorting:- folder-hook . 'set sort=threads;set hostname=' folder-hook sentmail set sort=date-sent Up to now this has worked fine as most of the lists I belong to are well behaved and preserve the Mail-Id:. However I now have a list where this isn't so and I'm not getting 'pseudo-threads' linked by the Subject:. I have tried adding set strict_threads=no (should be the default anyway) but this hasn't helped. I have no other thread related settings that I know of. How can I get threading to work using subjects? Hi Chris, take a look at $sort_aux in man muttrc - this should help you achieve what you need. The problem is that threading isn't working at all, $sort_aux surely just changes the sort rules within a thread. At the moment mutt isn't seeing/showing threads at all even though there are several messages with the same subject. -- Chris Green
Re: email has changed, you won't change everyone, and you don't have to
On Sat, Dec 01, 2012 at 09:45:48AM +, Tony's unattended mail wrote: So not only to you need to establish a new standard, but you need to update all the existing tools to support it. No you don't. Tools become deprecated. Accept it. A format which does what you described has existed since 1996 and is used by no one. Your format has already failed. Accept it. As a practical matter, the benefit of whatever difference in format you're about to suggest is vastly outweighed by the monumental amount of work required to make the world support it (AND SEE BELOW). I disagree. Congratulations on joining the myopic and selfish club. A definition does not become a standard until it is widely accepted; that is inherent in the definition of standard. No matter the merit of your proposal, its practical value is zero uless you can make others care. I've already explained why they have no reason to, so good luck with that. You gave up. That will fail you every time. I didn't give up. I recognized that one who can accept only idealism is a fool, and arguing with a fool is folly; thus continuing to argue with you is of no value. That's always a win. My failure was in getting sucked back in. -- Derek D. Martinhttp://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02 -=-=-=-=- This message is posted from an invalid address. Replying to it will result in undeliverable mail due to spam prevention. Sorry for the inconvenience. pgpRJ4nH8GXRW.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Please set your line wrap to a sane value (was ... Re: Is there any gmane.org user in the list?)
On Sat, Dec 01, 2012 at 08:38:57AM +, Jamie Paul Griffin wrote: And what you generally see, INCLUDING in the case which generated this thread, is a great deal of tolerance from the community for such things, followed by polite requests to please follow the local custom. What you saw in this thread, after that polite request, was the violent reaction to responses that essentially amounted to screw the convention, I wanna do it my way. That's unfair. I do not believe I have written anything that amounted to screw the convention as you put it. You're making an assumption that I was talking about your posts. There were a great many posts in this thread, some of which quite clearly argued against the convention. -- Derek D. Martinhttp://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02 -=-=-=-=- This message is posted from an invalid address. Replying to it will result in undeliverable mail due to spam prevention. Sorry for the inconvenience. pgpSu6GoIB8N8.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: email has changed, you won't change everyone, and you don't have to
* Peter Davis p...@pfdstudio.com [2012-11-20 13:37 -0500]: Most workplaces are using email to communicate, and they want maximum efficiency in that. Users want a way to get a message across quickly, as opposed to trying to create a beautiful and literate archive. These efficient mails usually look this way: | Yes | | some header ... | a or b? | | c or d? ... Nicolas -- http://www.rachinsky.de/nicolas
Re: Threaded sort not working where using Subject: rather than Mail-Id:
On Sat, Dec 01, 2012 at 06:41:47PM +, Chris Green wrote: On Sat, Dec 01, 2012 at 01:24:47PM +, Jamie Paul Griffin wrote: [ Chris Green Wrote On Sat 1.Dec'12 at 11:35:23 GMT ] I have the following in my muttrc file relating to thread sorting:- folder-hook . 'set sort=threads;set hostname=' folder-hook sentmail set sort=date-sent Up to now this has worked fine as most of the lists I belong to are well behaved and preserve the Mail-Id:. However I now have a list where this isn't so and I'm not getting 'pseudo-threads' linked by the Subject:. I have tried adding set strict_threads=no (should be the default anyway) but this hasn't helped. I have no other thread related settings that I know of. How can I get threading to work using subjects? Hi Chris, take a look at $sort_aux in man muttrc - this should help you achieve what you need. The problem is that threading isn't working at all, $sort_aux surely just changes the sort rules within a thread. At the moment mutt isn't seeing/showing threads at all even though there are several messages with the same subject. I just tried sending myself three messages with the same Subject:, they're not being shown as a thread. Am I being stupid or is this feature just not working? I'm running mutt version 1.5.21 on Xubuntu. -- Chris Green
Re: Threaded sort not working where using Subject: rather than Mail-Id:
On Sat, Dec 01, 2012 at 07:06:18PM +, Chris Green wrote: The problem is that threading isn't working at all, $sort_aux surely just changes the sort rules within a thread. At the moment mutt isn't seeing/showing threads at all even though there are several messages with the same subject. I just tried sending myself three messages with the same Subject:, they're not being shown as a thread. Am I being stupid or is this feature just not working? I'm running mutt version 1.5.21 on Xubuntu. Yes, I am being silly! Mutt will only thread when the 'child' messages subject has Re: at the front (or whatever matches that regular expression). -- Chris Green
Re: Threaded sort not working where using Subject: rather than Mail-Id:
On Sat, Dec 01, 2012 at 07:08:24PM +, Chris Green wrote: On Sat, Dec 01, 2012 at 07:06:18PM +, Chris Green wrote: The problem is that threading isn't working at all, $sort_aux surely just changes the sort rules within a thread. At the moment mutt isn't seeing/showing threads at all even though there are several messages with the same subject. Am I being stupid or is this feature just not working? Yes, I am being silly! Mutt will only thread when the 'child' messages subject has Re: at the front (or whatever matches that regular expression). Mutt's threading isn't primarily based on subject line. The proper way to determine threads is to look at the Message-IDs in the In-Reply-To: header. Mutt does also have an option (set by default) to also do some pseudo-threading based on subject; see $strict_threads and $reply_regexp in the fine manual. Messages that have been threaded based on the subject will have a * in the thread tree. If you reply to the message using mutt or any mailer which preserves the In-Reply-To header, even if you edit out that 'Re: ' prefix, it will still thread the reply correctly. However, if you send a new message with the same subject line, it won't. But either way, the intent is to group replies to a message together, rather than grouping all messages with the same subject together in one thread. w
Re: email has changed, you won't change everyone, and you don't have to
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 07:08:11PM +, Tony's unattended mail wrote: Now, if we consider lousy tools (tools that either fail to facilitate standards or needlessly impose extra work on humans), then it can only be the contrary of what you're saying. Selfish authors do what is convenient for /themselves/, not the reader. Wrapped text is *easier* to write because the author must also read the text as they compose it. Wrapping it during composition and then shipping it as-is is therefore a selfish act. And when dealing with lousy tools, unwrapped text is *more difficult* to compose, because as it's written the tool is not making it easy for the author to read their own message. What a load of crap. Wrapped text is not easier to write, you have to configure it! Unwrapped text is a lot easier to write because you don't have to configure it. Also, if the author doesn't find it easy to read their own message, how on earth is anyone else going to find it easy to read? And yet they still send it. Now, THAT'S selfish! I'm guessing that your idea of a tool that isn't lousy would be Mr Paperclip. :D -- If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. --- Malcolm X
Re: Please set your line wrap to a sane value (was ... Re: Is there any gmane.org user in the list?)
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 10:24:59AM -0500, Peter Davis wrote: Actually, it wasn't about GMail at all. It was about the fact that millions of email users don't care about line wrapping, or text/plain, or any of these other 40 year old conventions. The mutt-users group just happens to represent the minuscule segment of the email population that is still concerned about such things. Wrong. It was about netiquette on mailing lists. I see now, how some of the posts in this thread seemed so weird! So in this light, you'll see that the mutt-users mailing list just happens to represent the majority of posters on mailing lists. -- If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. --- Malcolm X
Re: Please set your line wrap to a sane value (was ... Re: Is there any gmane.org user in the list?)
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 06:20:00PM +, Grant Edwards wrote: The main Python mailing list gets regular posts from Google Groups. Those posts are always malformatted (the formatting seems to change over the years, but it never actually gets better). The ones that aren't just spam are always very badly written and rarely contain enough information to even guess what the poster is asking, let alone formulate a useful answer. Attempts to pry useful information from the poster usually prove fruitless. That is explained by the fact that Python is also used on the Windows platform. -- If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. --- Malcolm X
Re: Please set your line wrap to a sane value (was ... Re: Is there any gmane.org user in the list?)
[ Derek Martin Wrote On Sat 1.Dec'12 at 18:50:41 GMT ] On Sat, Dec 01, 2012 at 08:38:57AM +, Jamie Paul Griffin wrote: And what you generally see, INCLUDING in the case which generated this thread, is a great deal of tolerance from the community for such things, followed by polite requests to please follow the local custom. What you saw in this thread, after that polite request, was the violent reaction to responses that essentially amounted to screw the convention, I wanna do it my way. That's unfair. I do not believe I have written anything that amounted to screw the convention as you put it. You're making an assumption that I was talking about your posts. There were a great many posts in this thread, some of which quite clearly argued against the convention. Yes I did make that assumption, sorry. I thought you meant me/my posts.
Re: How to automatically send jpeg files as attachments?
On 01Dec2012 08:14, Jeffery Small j...@cjsa.com wrote: | Will Yardley mutt-us...@veggiechinese.net writes: | You shouldn't need to do any special encoding, and mutt -a should do | what you want. [...] | Will: | Thanks so much for your quick reply. You are exactly right, the problem was | that the -a file argument was before the address argument and it was taking | the address as a file to be attached. [...] | I was further confused because it turns out that there is also an older 1.4 | version of mutt on this machine, and when I read the manual page, I was getting | the old documentation. I tend to go: mutt -? or likewise with other commands. With a well implemented command this elicits a decent usage message, and you at least know it came from the right command. | [...] When I corrected things and got to the proper manpage, it | reads: | | mutt [-nx] [-e cmd] [-F file] [-H file] [-i file] [-s subj] | [-b addr] [-c addr] [-a file [...] --] addr|mailto_url [...] | | which shows the support for the multiple arguments to the -a option, which | can be terminated with -- which also works in my tests. Yes, this change was made because the common command usage wish is: mutt -a *.jpg and the -- file list termination is there to allow reliable separation of this from the addresses (circumventing your original problem). Cheers, -- Cameron Simpson c...@zip.com.au
Re: Please set your line wrap to a sane value (was ... Re: Is there any gmane.org user in the list?)
On Sun, Dec 02, 2012 at 09:26:31AM +1300, Chris Bannister wrote: On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 10:24:59AM -0500, Peter Davis wrote: Actually, it wasn't about GMail at all. It was about the fact that millions of email users don't care about line wrapping, or text/plain, or any of these other 40 year old conventions. The mutt-users group just happens to represent the minuscule segment of the email population that is still concerned about such things. Wrong. It was about netiquette on mailing lists. Apparently even proper conversational quoting is too complex for you to follow. I was responding to a comment on a comment on an earlier post of mine. Since I wrote that earlier post, I think I have a pretty good idea what it was about. I see now, how some of the posts in this thread seemed so weird! So in this light, you'll see that the mutt-users mailing list just happens to represent the majority of posters on mailing lists. Your conclusion seems to be drawn from thin air, since there's not a shred of evidence or even logic behind it. Mutt users, including the members of this list, comprise a minute segment of the email using, and mailing list using public. They in no way represent the email or mailing list population in general. Etiquette, or netiquette if you prefer, is basically the set of rules of conduct, explicit or implicit, that are adopted and adhered to by a population to establish norms of behavior. However, since the vastly overwhelming majority of email users use HTML mail and don't care about line wrapping, the 72-column wrapping rule and the non-HTML rule can hardly be considered netiquette except perhaps within this tiny circle. Otherwise they are, at best, quaint relics of an earlier era. That said, an individual mailing list such as this one can certainly establish its own rules. In particular, the owners of the list can. So I checked the welcome message for this list. The *only* rules given were Please write only in English and ... please check out these pages ... exhorting users to consult the documentation (with links provided) about any questions. So the owners have not seen fit to establish a 72-character line length rule, or a bottom- or conversational-posting rule, or even a no HTML rule. I supposed you could argue that these would be so obvious that stating them would be redundant. Even so, these implicit rules would apply only to this list, and not to mailing lists in general. You might want to be more careful of this distinction in your writing. -pd
Re: Please set your line wrap to a sane value (was ... Re: Is there any gmane.org user in the list?)
On Sat, Dec 01, 2012 at 05:57:03PM -0500, Peter Davis wrote: Apparently even proper conversational quoting is too complex for you to follow. I was responding to a comment on a comment on an earlier post of mine. Since I wrote that earlier post, I think I have a pretty good idea what it was about. Your post didn't read that way. There is no need to be abusive, is there? I see now, how some of the posts in this thread seemed so weird! So in this light, you'll see that the mutt-users mailing list just happens to represent the majority of posters on mailing lists. Your conclusion seems to be drawn from thin air, since there's not a shred of evidence or even logic behind it. Mutt users, including the members of this list, comprise a minute segment of the email using, and mailing list using public. They in no way represent the email or mailing list population in general. You don't need to use mutt to understand netiquette. IOW, many users exhibit good posting practice who don't use mutt at all. Etiquette, or netiquette if you prefer, is basically the set of rules of conduct, explicit or implicit, that are adopted and adhered to by a population to establish norms of behavior. Don't confuse netiquette with a list's code of conduct. [...] You should have a read of: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/emily-postnews/part1/ -- If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. --- Malcolm X
Re: Please set your line wrap to a sane value (was ... Re: Is there any gmane.org user in the list?)
* Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com [12-01-12 11:07]: On 2012-12-01, Patrick Shanahan ptilopt...@gmail.com wrote: ... I am not explaining properly/sufficiently. Yahoo *requires* your posting addr matches your smtp. :^) Ah, that's indeed quite different than what you wrote previously. Requring that the From: address match up with the sending SMTP server is not an unusual anti-spam measure. Mine does not and I will not open *more* spam floodgates. All you need to do is to send the message via the GMail smtp server. How does that open more spam floodgates? I have mutt configured to send mail via GMail's SMTP server when I'm using my GMail address, and I don't think it's created any additional spam. I now *only* post via my isp's smtp. I previously posted by my own location smtp but it became increasingly difficult to bypass problems encompassed by posting from a dynamic ip and relented. I do not want to used email addrs at my isp! I post via my isp using a gmail addr and my isp smtp. It does not match yahoo's req's as the posting addr and smtp do not match. In the past, I've found that causes problems with other destinations as well. I suspect it's comparing the From: address, the envelope from, the SMTP sender, and the Return-Path: values. If they don't match up in certain ways, it's being tossed as likely spam/phishing. I know my employer's MS Outlook server does that, though I don't remember exactly which combinations have to match... I have not found this, yet :) -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.orgPhoto Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net
Re: Please set your line wrap to a sane value (was ... Re: Is there any gmane.org user in the list?)
On 2012-12-02, Patrick Shanahan ptilopt...@gmail.com wrote: * Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com [12-01-12 11:07]: On 2012-12-01, Patrick Shanahan ptilopt...@gmail.com wrote: ... I am not explaining properly/sufficiently. Yahoo *requires* your posting addr matches your smtp. :^) Ah, that's indeed quite different than what you wrote previously. Requring that the From: address match up with the sending SMTP server is not an unusual anti-spam measure. Mine does not and I will not open *more* spam floodgates. All you need to do is to send the message via the GMail smtp server. How does that open more spam floodgates? I have mutt configured to send mail via GMail's SMTP server when I'm using my GMail address, and I don't think it's created any additional spam. I now *only* post via my isp's smtp. I previously posted by my own location smtp but it became increasingly difficult to bypass problems encompassed by posting from a dynamic ip and relented. I had to give that up even with a static IP address because my mail was getting tossed out by various anti-spam heuristics. Some servers won't accept mail from a static, residential DSL address even if it has an MX record that resolves correctly. I do not want to used email addrs at my isp! I didn't suggest that you use the email address at your isp. I suggested that when using your GMail address, you could use the GMail SMTP server. That would make the picky recipients happy. -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! PUNK ROCK!! DISCO at DUCK!! BIRTH CONTROL!! gmail.com
Re: Please set your line wrap to a sane value (was ... Re: Is there any gmane.org user in the list?)
On 2012-12-01, Chris Bannister cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote: On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 06:20:00PM +, Grant Edwards wrote: The main Python mailing list gets regular posts from Google Groups. Those posts are always malformatted (the formatting seems to change over the years, but it never actually gets better). The ones that aren't just spam are always very badly written and rarely contain enough information to even guess what the poster is asking, let alone formulate a useful answer. Attempts to pry useful information from the poster usually prove fruitless. That is explained by the fact that Python is also used on the Windows platform. Not only that, it's used by people who have absolutely no techinical background. -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! Used staples are good at with SOY SAUCE! gmail.com
etiquette, conduct, best practice
=- Peter Davis wrote on Sat 1.Dec'12 at 17:57:03 -0500 -= So the owners have not seen fit to establish a 72-character line length rule, or a bottom- or conversational-posting rule, or even a no HTML rule. I supposed you could argue that these would be so obvious that stating them would be redundant. Even so, these implicit rules would apply only to this list, and not to mailing lists in general. You might want to be more careful of this distinction in your writing. You certainly remember the anecdote of a person sueing a company for not notifying that the hot coffee the person bought was too hot to drink immediately without cooling... now all coffee cups must carry a warning/ disclaimer. Is that really necessary? Don't/shouldn't we all _know_ that coffee is hot and can hurt? You can act like this and demand that each and every corner-case should be codified... but that's impractical. Usually common sense should apply and suffice, and it applies generally anywhere, not just here, it's nothing specific for mutters but any mail-user. Yet there are those who don't have such sense... doing whatever suits them disregarding anyone else. When pointed to common sense, still refusing to do it common, rather doing nonsense... is this really what you want? -- © Rado S. -- You must provide YOUR effort for your goal! EVERY effort counts: at least to show your attitude. You're responsible for ALL you do: you get what you give.
List netiquette; General Mutt-specific [Was: Please set your line wrap to a sane value]
On 01.12.12 17:57, Peter Davis wrote: the 72-column wrapping rule and the non-HTML rule can hardly be considered netiquette except perhaps within this tiny circle. Otherwise they are, at best, quaint relics of an earlier era. There are other bastions of consideration for the reader, not yet overrun by the ignorant hordes. Consider: HTML is not email, and email doesn't contain HTML, so please turn HTML formatting OFF in your email client. We have filters in place that will reject your message if your posting contains HTML. - http://gpl-violations.org/mailinglists.html You are probably right - we should similarly declare the mutt community's communication code, if only to help newbies have their posts read. Of the many on that page, I think this rule in particular can save the world man-years of wasted time: In general, your reply should contain at least as much text as the amount of text you are quoting, if not more. Never quote back dozens of lines of text and simply add a single line of text to the bottom - people will *hate* you for that! It also reduces the world's burden of visible self-indulgent lazy stupidity. Given the time we've all invested in this thread, then this rule from another list is worth publishing, at least in part: Plain text, 72 characters per line Many subscribers and developers read their mail on text-based mailers (mail(1), emacs, Mutt) and they find HTML-formatted messages, or lines that stretch beyond 72 characters often unreadable. Most OpenBSD mailing lists strip messages of MIME content before sending them out to the rest of the list. If you don't use plain text your messages will be reformatted or, if they cannot be reformatted, summarily rejected. The only mailing list that allows attachments is the ports list, they will be removed from messages on the other mailing lists. - http://www.openbsd.org/mail.html Automatically reformatting or deleting objectionable posts is one way to obviate the need for a lot of useless discussion, based only on unwillingness of one or two newbies to respect the cumulative time and effort of the _many_ readers of their posts. I herewith move that we publish a netiquette guide, quaint or not (in the eyes of newbies), on http://www.mutt.org/mail-lists.html. A merging of the two cited above, edited to remove material specific to the other lists, might serve as a basis. Any seconders? Any other guidance, gleaned from other better organised lists than ours? Just in case ignorance of No HTML still abounds, there's: Turn off any HTML or Richtext features in your mail program. Don't post attachments. and more, at http://www.procmail.org/era/lists.html And here's what happened when once HTML sneaked onto the Vim mailing list via Google Groups: I'm not sure if there is a public setting now. I asked the right question to the right team and they switched the Vim group to plain text. - Bram Moolenaar, after HTML was posted to vim_use from Google Groups. OK, that limited survey hopefully shows that ignorance is not the best basis for making a claim - the supposedly insular norms are in fact common to many technical lists. Not that it matters. It is only as an act of graciousness that informed Mutterers take the trouble to declare what trash they will not trouble themselves to read. I think that should be done, and will do any legwork I can, once we generally concur on the way forward. That seems a more positive step than just plonking the barbarians at the gates who refuse to recognise the price of receiving free help. (And yes, even in this reply, we're doing your research and investigative thinking for you.) Erik -- Hello. Please do not post styled HTML crap with embedded images to this mailing list (or any mailing list). - LuKreme on procmail-users ML
